Full cut with shooting segment in History of Weapons & War: forgottenweapons.vhx.tv/videos/lp7-smg-4k (Also available through Patreon, and free on Playeur)
Because of things i heard from a friend, I think the long extended stock is meant to push it so far forward for one handed shoulder firing where your arm is extended further forward. I think this technique is meant to leave your off hand free to assist or carry people while laying cover fire. It is something this friend of mine would do during drills he called, 'medivac skirmish' where someone would pretend to be wounded and have to be assisted out of the danger zone. He Claims the technique is 'from the eastern block' but he is the only place i heard this, and they played paintball, so wildly different from actual recoil. His wife claims it is something he picked up from a movie. She has more live fire experience and doesn't do this.
It's basically the same concept as with the British Viper MkI, you sling it over one shoulder with the stock basically sitting under your armpit and just need to raise it and shoot. For some reason the idea that (military)police need an SMG you can fire with one hand oddly resurfaces from time to time but noone can really say what the other hand is occupied with.
In traditional Elbonian firearms wisdom constantly center-feeding creates undesirable vibration harmonics, so double feed is very desirable. But being a soul stranglingly poor country they also understand that double stack magazines do not "inspire good ammo frugality" among the troops. Hence the single stack double feed magazine approach is always a winner with the MoD.
When I did basic training there was a guy who could've used that stock at full extension. He wasn't overly tall, but he had these comically long arms where his knuckles were basically down at his knees.
Every person I've met with this "oddly mismatched body construction" have been stupid strong for their weight class. It's like the gene sequence that implements 20% extra arm length also make each unit of muscle mass 80% stronger than normal.
@@andersjjensen haha, well I certainly wouldn't be challenging him to a fight. Even ignoring strength, his hands were the size of my head. I honestly thought of a gorilla everytime I saw him.
I really really like this tablecloth as a backdrop. It is light enough to contrast and show off the dark surfaces of the weapon being shown, but still just enough color to not wash out under camera lighting. Good choice! Thanks ForgottenWeapons !
Out of curiosity, I checked out the firing demo on Playeur. The gun has a higher rate of fire than I was expecting. By my ear, it sounds like a rate of at least 900 rounds per minute.
In case people are confused, this is UM Cugir (state owned), not FA Cugir (spun off and privatised - the ones making the US/EU imported AKs), or Nova (private, makes the PAK9/NAK9), but they're all located on the industrial platform in Cugir.
I love these sorts of guns because they remind me of PS1/PS2 era video game weapons, where designers would make up a fictional weapon that was trying to look realistic but was just a hodge-podge of design ideas from like 30 different guns the artist remembered seeing once
That is called capitalism. Why invent overcomplicated expensive things when you can repurpose existing things that work. Indeed, it won't win any next gen combat missions, but it isn't targeted for that use either It will dish out bullets when needed if some thugs with pistols decide to put up a fight when swat comes banging at their door
Fun story about the Cugir factory. Some time ago, a group of people tried to set the factory on fire by chugging molotovs at it. What they didn't know was that the room closest to the streets(and them) was the ammo storage and a lot of bullets went of in their direction as a result
Jan is in Romania! Welcome mate! Don't leave before you take a tour of the country, you'll love it! Also remember, "mici" is the best meat based food invented by mankind, try them at least 10 times! :D
At least you managed to find the Cugir LP7. Now the Game devs will have a much easier time modelling this! Now all they need is the Prototype Uzi Pro P 200001 and we're good to go!
To be compatible with the double barreled version for increased fire power that where recommended by their outside experts but could not yet be introduced because all the funds where used up to fuel Jagdtigers.
8:08 It is not a rate reducer, but rather a hammer retarder. The rate of fire of AKM is basically the same as that of AK but thanks to the hammer retarder the hands of the shooter have a little extra time to return to their aiming-time position.
I'm so glad you are in Romania, I hope you will wisit the Military Museum in Bucharest and the Navy Museum in Constanța, where you will find a lot of rare and exotic weapons. I wish you a nice stay and enjoy your trip. About the stock: I think they made it so long at maximum extension so the weapon would fit in the existing racks in guns rooms, made for Mod 63. I did my military duty in Jandarmeria Română decades ago, and I have nothing to brag about. But I remembered those wooden racks though. Best wishes,
Giving how sturdy this platform is. That tool would become the right base for a gun in 9×25 Dillon feed out of an adapted Sterling submachine gun magazine, with 34 round capacity double-feed.
@@stg45 This is true. It would certainly require a hefty redesign. That 9x25 round is super potent, though, and a powerful PDW in that it a similar caliber really trips my trigger. Back in the late 1800’s/early 1900’s Karamojo Bell carried a Mauser Broomhandle with a stock in 9x25 and put it to good use. I NEED an updated version, maybe with one of those flux braces or something. I think it would fit a really nice niche between a rifle and a pistol for a travel gun.
I imagine loading the double stack/ single feed mag would be an annoyance. Other than that, it looks like a simple, solid design. Using standard AKM receiver and fire control is ingenious. Not only cuts down on R&D and manufacturing costs, it would also simplify training.
I would love to see a series of books on each contries AK development and production. To include prototypes and export models. Just like your new book on Hungary. The existing books available are either picture heavy with very limited info or have huge glaring omissions of prototypes and production models.
For something supposedly made in the 2000s, good God this thing looks ANCIENT. You could tell me this was from like the late 70s and I'd believe it. I almost refuse to believe it's that recent.
The Cugir LP7 is just a simple, unique and exquisite SMG and the semi-automatic pistol variant would be a huge hit since it fits all the criterias for the US market. By the way the LP7 is basically if the AK-47 and the OTS-02 Kiparis decided to have a child.
I know you usually catch your slip ups, but when you said the mag was a single stack double feed, that made me think of something that would probably come out of Californian compliance or something.
If they ever did import in a pistol version, hopefully they set it up to allow easy conversion to an SBR without having to remove and rivet in an entirely new rear trunion.
That extra long extending stock was designed specifically to deal with the problem that John McClain encountered in Nakatomi Plaza while trying to escape in the elevator shaft. 😂
I would presume it assists in keeping the butt of the weapon seated in your shoulder when firing, because otherwise it's just enhancing recoil to enhance recoil.
I'm shocked that pistol version hasn't been in a starwars movie. Cut first 2 inches off muzzle break to add MG34 flash cone, change front grip to something ungainly, add scopes or lasers on top for sights... and lights, needs random lights on it. Pew Pew!
The semi-automatic version still has a 3rd pin. Probably using the auto sear as an out of battery safety. But, the ATF would have a hissy fit about that setup
Single platforms for firearms make more sense than the multible designs. The Mac's- the Maquaches. Macaca- singular. They are quite useful for scoentific studies.
As it is closed bolt are production post 1986 allowed in the USA unlike open bolt? Being closed bolt it doesn't need a drop-safety, presumably? It's a bit surprising that the closed bolt Polish “Beha” SMG hasn't been updated.
The full length of pull on the stock might be because the designers heard about the Gombe Chimpanzee War, and it gave them some overly hopeful expectations for potential future export contracts.
Potentially weird question. As the ak was developed as an SMG doctrine wise, the system was considered ridiculously reliable, they developed the aksu pdw systems. Why is it that they always remove the gas system and make it blowback as opposed to just adjusting the gas system to function using 9mm? Additionally, if cost is a factor, it would in theory be more expensive to develop a new system than just modify what they have. It'd also have lower moving mass, could use the same tools for fixing and cleaning, etc etc.
@@joeharris864 saying math is the determining fact is a bit silly, they have tooling for gas systems, and getting the tooling for not gas systems is more expensive comparatively.
My guess would be that you have to redesign most of the guts anyway since you're working with much different gas pressures and thus different spring pressures and bolt set-up, so redesigning it as a blowback is probably more straightforward and reliable than designing all those pieces plues a gas system that runs reliably on 9mm. It's an easier sell on maintainance as well.
@@cristinmariuscugir is under new management and wants to increase prices. Century said no because things like wasrs are already as high priced as people will pay
@@M8Military If they really wanted to I'm sure they could set up their own US operation(s) the way Zastava did. Zastavas sell for $100-600 more than WASRs depending on the rifle and the configuration. They could bump up the fit and finish a hair and ditch the cheap furniture. After that I doubt people would continue to balk at paying a bit more for a WASR. Especially if they branched out and diversified their catalog the way Zastava did. Then again I keep hearing anecdotes about the AK market in the US crashing so....
Full cut with shooting segment in History of Weapons & War:
forgottenweapons.vhx.tv/videos/lp7-smg-4k
(Also available through Patreon, and free on Playeur)
Enjoy your stay in Romania, it would be a delight to cross paths, even for a few seconds
One day a romanian guy think: "what if we make a MAT49 out of an AK?"
Hey, er, looks like you forgot the video on Floatplane, too...
X acquisto sono interessato
Thank you for your video. I'm curious about a technical thing: what kind of steel is used in this kind of receivers? I would appreciate your answer.
Now I want to see what an actual single stack double feed magazine would look like
Basically the letter Y
Me too!!😂😂
Id say thats just a single stack, single feed mag that was handed to a frat party to be used as a bottle opener for the night
Single stack double feed. Also known as a Schrodinger's feed. You never know on which side the rounds will pop up
Uses proprietary quantum cartridges
Because of things i heard from a friend, I think the long extended stock is meant to push it so far forward for one handed shoulder firing where your arm is extended further forward. I think this technique is meant to leave your off hand free to assist or carry people while laying cover fire.
It is something this friend of mine would do during drills he called, 'medivac skirmish' where someone would pretend to be wounded and have to be assisted out of the danger zone. He Claims the technique is 'from the eastern block' but he is the only place i heard this, and they played paintball, so wildly different from actual recoil.
His wife claims it is something he picked up from a movie. She has more live fire experience and doesn't do this.
My guess would have been firing it while holding a ballistic shield in the other hand.
@@VulpeRenard that makes more sense
@@VulpeRenard I was told you only did that with a Desert Eagle.
It's basically the same concept as with the British Viper MkI, you sling it over one shoulder with the stock basically sitting under your armpit and just need to raise it and shoot.
For some reason the idea that (military)police need an SMG you can fire with one hand oddly resurfaces from time to time but noone can really say what the other hand is occupied with.
Like the SPAS 12 hook? Sort of?
He said "Orița" correct in Romanian. I was shocked. Good job Jan.
Now... if you also wrote Ian correctly 😂
@@TempestWolf1 did I jump-started your OCD?
Jan from accounting thanks you .
@@Dapstart 😂
L-ai românizat pe nea Jan . Good one
I think a single stack double feed mag sounds like the most inefficient magazine you could ask for 😂. Perhaps it could go into service in Elbonia?
Single stack double feed = a regular thing in Romania
Na, Elbonia want the single stack triple feed.
In traditional Elbonian firearms wisdom constantly center-feeding creates undesirable vibration harmonics, so double feed is very desirable. But being a soul stranglingly poor country they also understand that double stack magazines do not "inspire good ammo frugality" among the troops. Hence the single stack double feed magazine approach is always a winner with the MoD.
@@andersjjensen Brilliant!
i want this video
Ah, they clearly intended to fit out the Romanian basketball team with these things.
It's a new strategy they are trying. You can't lose if your opponents are dead or wounded *taps head...
Good One
Romanians are usually comically short so this is funny
@@cavemanfromspace3038 Huh? What are you on about?
@@samanthamalikov7157 🤣🤣🤣 5"4 isn't tall
When I did basic training there was a guy who could've used that stock at full extension. He wasn't overly tall, but he had these comically long arms where his knuckles were basically down at his knees.
Every person I've met with this "oddly mismatched body construction" have been stupid strong for their weight class. It's like the gene sequence that implements 20% extra arm length also make each unit of muscle mass 80% stronger than normal.
@@andersjjensen haha, well I certainly wouldn't be challenging him to a fight. Even ignoring strength, his hands were the size of my head. I honestly thought of a gorilla everytime I saw him.
I really really like this tablecloth as a backdrop. It is light enough to contrast and show off the dark surfaces of the weapon being shown, but still just enough color to not wash out under camera lighting. Good choice!
Thanks ForgottenWeapons !
Stuart Ashens sofa would be nice too
Out of curiosity, I checked out the firing demo on Playeur. The gun has a higher rate of fire than I was expecting. By my ear, it sounds like a rate of at least 900 rounds per minute.
The extendo stock may be for weapons racks or something like that. Like how m4s fit rather awkwardly into m16 vehicle or armory storage racks.
This... Actually makes a lot of sense!
In case people are confused, this is UM Cugir (state owned), not FA Cugir (spun off and privatised - the ones making the US/EU imported AKs), or Nova (private, makes the PAK9/NAK9), but they're all located on the industrial platform in Cugir.
"This could be imported into the US "
Don't tease me like that ian
Look at the state of it
Never heard about this weapon...
It has kind of a french look.
Cool that Cugir revived the Orița/Oriță magazine! 🇷🇴
11 minutes and 17 seconds ago, i didn't know this existed.
Now my life won't be complete until i have one.
Felicitări " A.N.C.A"
Welcome to Romania and enjoy your stay.
There are more prototypes to see.
The Rumanian modernised dushka is amazing
If it's a modernised Dshk it is shrinked too!
What an interesting little gun. Thanks for bringing it to my attention
I love these sorts of guns because they remind me of PS1/PS2 era video game weapons, where designers would make up a fictional weapon that was trying to look realistic but was just a hodge-podge of design ideas from like 30 different guns the artist remembered seeing once
That is called capitalism.
Why invent overcomplicated expensive things when you can repurpose existing things that work.
Indeed, it won't win any next gen combat missions, but it isn't targeted for that use either
It will dish out bullets when needed if some thugs with pistols decide to put up a fight when swat comes banging at their door
Welcome to Romania. The table cloth was a tell-tale even before you said ”here in Romania”!
Fun story about the Cugir factory. Some time ago, a group of people tried to set the factory on fire by chugging molotovs at it. What they didn't know was that the room closest to the streets(and them) was the ammo storage and a lot of bullets went of in their direction as a result
Early gang represent. Also, goddamn, compared to other AK-derived SMGs, this one looks pretty novel.
I love this. One of the few small run from small country’s gun that I actually really want. Would buy if imported
If semi version possibly will be available in US, I already know what AK-ish gun Brandon will buy next xD
The chiappa pak-9 has been available for years now. The receiver on mine has cugir markings.
@@telelkhajiit7910 Cugir is also a name of a town in Romania. The PAK9 is made by a different company that happens to be in the same location.
Jan is in Romania!
Welcome mate! Don't leave before you take a tour of the country, you'll love it! Also remember, "mici" is the best meat based food invented by mankind, try them at least 10 times! :D
Now try “Jan was”… And stop swooning…
@@MrQ454 is not my loss he missed to eat mici dude... :D
Romanians in Cugir, seem to be really good at scaling the AK up and down. The PSL is from Cugir also.
PSL is a hybrid based on PKM ( 7.62x54R) and RPK ( closed bolt).
This is technically the other Cugir (UM Cugir, not FA Cugir).
At least you managed to find the Cugir LP7. Now the Game devs will have a much easier time modelling this!
Now all they need is the Prototype Uzi Pro P 200001 and we're good to go!
It's really nice concept of the gun
I think this SMG has a very cool design. Looks like something you’d see in a futuristic setting for militia forces.
Dark industrial future, like Highlander II
Romanian viewers looking at that table cloth like "bă, să-mi bag..."
Some grandma definitely made a stop there
The single stack double feed magazine is an elbonian design
A personal design from the defense minister, Ian/Jan.
To be compatible with the double barreled version for increased fire power that where recommended by their outside experts but could not yet be introduced because all the funds where used up to fuel Jagdtigers.
What a beauty.
pretty cool smg
Why does it look so cool wtf
When Ian releases a vid about an smg I've never seen before 😩
Very cute looking gun
8:08 It is not a rate reducer, but rather a hammer retarder. The rate of fire of AKM is basically the same as that of AK but thanks to the hammer retarder the hands of the shooter have a little extra time to return to their aiming-time position.
My Cugir Romak from 91ish has the exact same finish and wear on it. Maybe these two met each other at some point :D
Viva Romania! A sweet little gun.
Last time I was this early it was still funny to say this.
goodness you made me feel old
That fully extended butt stock is to put under your arm and brace against the wall 10ft behind you when your shoulder goes numb from firing
I'm so glad you are in Romania, I hope you will wisit the Military Museum in Bucharest and the Navy Museum in Constanța, where you will find a lot of rare and exotic weapons. I wish you a nice stay and enjoy your trip.
About the stock: I think they made it so long at maximum extension so the weapon would fit in the existing racks in guns rooms, made for Mod 63. I did my military duty in Jandarmeria Română decades ago, and I have nothing to brag about. But I remembered those wooden racks though.
Best wishes,
Giving how sturdy this platform is. That tool would become the right base for a gun in 9×25 Dillon feed out of an adapted Sterling submachine gun magazine, with 34 round capacity double-feed.
no, the 9X25 mauser.
@@stg45 The Mauser is no real poor tool.
@@stg45I like this idea!!!!
@@jamesr792 but this bolt would be too light for 9mm mauser.
@@stg45 This is true. It would certainly require a hefty redesign.
That 9x25 round is super potent, though, and a powerful PDW in that it a similar caliber really trips my trigger. Back in the late 1800’s/early 1900’s Karamojo Bell carried a Mauser Broomhandle with a stock in 9x25 and put it to good use. I NEED an updated version, maybe with one of those flux braces or something. I think it would fit a really nice niche between a rifle and a pistol for a travel gun.
Dammit Ian! now I want one 😂
ah my hometown. I grew up near there.
I imagine loading the double stack/ single feed mag would be an annoyance. Other than that, it looks like a simple, solid design. Using standard AKM receiver and fire control is ingenious. Not only cuts down on R&D and manufacturing costs, it would also simplify training.
"Super-human giant Romanian gendarm" made my hair raise, must be the vestiges of German genetics.
I love the LP7, it's just a baby ak
Single stack double feed would be fantastic
Fascinating
I would love to see a series of books on each contries AK development and production. To include prototypes and export models. Just like your new book on Hungary. The existing books available are either picture heavy with very limited info or have huge glaring omissions of prototypes and production models.
I hope that Cugir will make a version of these for America
Wow I’m here actually relatively early to a release of a video
AKM and MP5k if have a child
Well, son, when an AKM and MP5k love each other very much...
Damn, we're still manufacturing some weapons.. who would've known
For something supposedly made in the 2000s, good God this thing looks ANCIENT. You could tell me this was from like the late 70s and I'd believe it. I almost refuse to believe it's that recent.
I would love to see this imported into the US!
What an heavy handguard
The Cugir LP7 is just a simple, unique and exquisite SMG and the semi-automatic pistol variant would be a huge hit since it fits all the criterias for the US market. By the way the LP7 is basically if the AK-47 and the OTS-02 Kiparis decided to have a child.
I know you usually catch your slip ups, but when you said the mag was a single stack double feed, that made me think of something that would probably come out of Californian compliance or something.
This should of been what the draco 9s became in us market. I know different company technically but still be cool to have pistol import of this!
If they ever did import in a pistol version, hopefully they set it up to allow easy conversion to an SBR without having to remove and rivet in an entirely new rear trunion.
My guy, you must be in Romania, look at that room xD
Dang id like to have one of these in my collection
I would love to see these come into the US.
Ya know-shorten the stock or give it an uzi style wood stock and this thing would be pretty slick
I'd buy the pistol version. Thing looks slick as hell
That extra long extending stock was designed specifically to deal with the problem that John McClain encountered in Nakatomi Plaza while trying to escape in the elevator shaft. 😂
What is the purpose of angling the muzzle break vents forward?
I would presume it assists in keeping the butt of the weapon seated in your shoulder when firing, because otherwise it's just enhancing recoil to enhance recoil.
I'm shocked that pistol version hasn't been in a starwars movie. Cut first 2 inches off muzzle break to add MG34 flash cone, change front grip to something ungainly, add scopes or lasers on top for sights... and lights, needs random lights on it. Pew Pew!
Nice Bolter 👍🏻😁
This comment appears in every FW video.
Hey Ian,hope you did a video on the new AK prototype from Cugir😊
Wait a minute… he just wants us to subscribe to his firearms platform to watch the LP7 at the range and more awesome content. 🤔
ROMANIA MENTIONED
Well...thanks to the visit in Romania, now Gun Jesus can pronounce Cugir properly :))
I feel like it was made that "long" so the tube in tube kind construction would reinforce the tiny stock arm make it stronger
The semi-automatic version still has a 3rd pin. Probably using the auto sear as an out of battery safety. But, the ATF would have a hissy fit about that setup
Single platforms for firearms make more sense than the multible designs.
The Mac's- the Maquaches. Macaca- singular. They are quite useful for scoentific studies.
As it is closed bolt are production post 1986 allowed in the USA unlike open bolt?
Being closed bolt it doesn't need a drop-safety, presumably?
It's a bit surprising that the closed bolt Polish “Beha” SMG hasn't been updated.
No one going to mention how much this looks like the Jati?
Also, the Hungarian SMG was neat, as well.
Seems to me like the extendo stock is gor a standard 2 handed pistol grip while also having a 3rd point of contact in the shoulder.
I exploded with laughter and spilled my coffee after seeing the stock fully extended lol there must be some big Romanians
Kinda the same thing as the VHS-1 from HS Produkt . Seems like an Eastern European thing.
Good morning early team!
Cool table top
Definitely my favorite table top of all the Forgotten Weapons table tops. Thank you for bringing attention to it!
@@samy7013 it's a table form the weapon factory at Cugir 😊
Thats a very neat gun. Probably very heavy though!
Brandon for sure watching this and googling around trying to find where he can get one lol
Give it a drum mag and a sight of some description and it looks perfect for a sci-fi movie ^^
This just looks like a cursed gun :o
The full length of pull on the stock might be because the designers heard about the Gombe Chimpanzee War, and it gave them some overly hopeful expectations for potential future export contracts.
Why did they use the heavier RPK thickness steel for the receiver and top cover? It seems like unnecessary weight for a 9mm smg.
Can you make a Video, where you compare Arms? What is the main difference between WW2 SMG and contemporary? Would a PPSh still be a good weapon today?
Ian already made several
@@jalpat2272 link please
It's giving me "mpl at home" vibes.
Man I hope they import these.
Looks very similar to the. PAK9 that, I have.
You could probably suppress it, and is there such thing as a dovetail foregrip?
Looks very inspired by the Gepard SMG
Potentially weird question.
As the ak was developed as an SMG doctrine wise, the system was considered ridiculously reliable, they developed the aksu pdw systems.
Why is it that they always remove the gas system and make it blowback as opposed to just adjusting the gas system to function using 9mm?
Additionally, if cost is a factor, it would in theory be more expensive to develop a new system than just modify what they have. It'd also have lower moving mass, could use the same tools for fixing and cleaning, etc etc.
Because you don`t need a gas system for something like 9mm Para.
Because tuning it to 9mm requires just as much maths as starting over, and still needs you to make the new parts.
@@bolbarazvan need and want are separate, my question stems from fact they already had majority of tooling needed for the gas system
@@joeharris864 saying math is the determining fact is a bit silly, they have tooling for gas systems, and getting the tooling for not gas systems is more expensive comparatively.
My guess would be that you have to redesign most of the guts anyway since you're working with much different gas pressures and thus different spring pressures and bolt set-up, so redesigning it as a blowback is probably more straightforward and reliable than designing all those pieces plues a gas system that runs reliably on 9mm. It's an easier sell on maintainance as well.
Maybe we can get some parts kits imported
Another cool looking gun that's a solid candidate for the SW blaster treatment. 👌👌👌
You can tell Ian is in some whacked out foreign country by looking at how weird the electrical outlets are on the wall behind him.
With Cugir & Century Arms not being friendly anymore, who knows if we'll ever see any new guns from Romania
What do you mean not being friendly anymore ?
@@cristinmariuscugir is under new management and wants to increase prices. Century said no because things like wasrs are already as high priced as people will pay
@@M8Military If they really wanted to I'm sure they could set up their own US operation(s) the way Zastava did. Zastavas sell for $100-600 more than WASRs depending on the rifle and the configuration. They could bump up the fit and finish a hair and ditch the cheap furniture. After that I doubt people would continue to balk at paying a bit more for a WASR. Especially if they branched out and diversified their catalog the way Zastava did.
Then again I keep hearing anecdotes about the AK market in the US crashing so....
good morning!