I agree, he mentions sludge a few times and they are one of the earliest pioneers. How he mentioned mastadon under sludge, which they arent at all but never mentioned acid bath is very dissapointing.
imo metalcore should really be split into two genres, one that is clearly more influenced by it's hardcore roots (maybe bring back the term metalic hardcore) and one that draws most of it's influences from metal, sure there would still be borderline cases that could go either way but I think it would make more sense
Completely agreed. I simply do not believe that Asking Alexandria and Converge belong in the same genre. For many years I've refused to accept the Metalcore thing for all the emo-image bands, and have always called it Mallcore. And while that is a derogatory term to a degree, I think it fits quite well for 95% of the bands that were floating around by 2010.
PS: Theistic Satanism does exist, and some bands are theistic Satanists. They do believe in some... Entity. But depending on what vein they are, the chosen name varies, as does how they see this entity in relation to the Christian God. Many who see it as a reversal of Christianity actually feel Christianity is the backwards one, God is the evil being, and whatever name they use for "satan" is actually the freedom, and knowledge giver. It's actually a very complicated subject that I suggest those who know little about, saying little about. Not in a snobby way, but it really is complicated, and there are many misconceptions. And some are what we would call actual devil worshippers, which tend to exist in 2 types - those who worship chaos, and those who genuinely see the entity in the Christian way, and are basically reversed Christians. And all of these types legitimately exist within metal musician circles, especially black - musicians, and fans. But more musicians than it sounds like you'd expect, especially of the "Lucifer/Satan/ect was actually the good guy", and chaos types. Chaos itself is a complicated subject, as (probably the majority)many don't see it as a negative chaos, such as wanting chaos everywhere - so much as worshipping the chaotic nature of life, existence, and nature itself. It's also worth noting that many start as theistic Satanists of some sort when they are young, and over time develope little to no theistic beliefs. That's actually the case with many of the 2nd wave black bands.
Came here to say something in that vein, but you beat me to it. I think atheistic satanism is more popular in general nowadays (not necessarily in music subcultures only, but all around), with organizations like the Church of Satan or The Satanic Temple propagating these "beliefs", if you can even call them that (I personally view atheistic satanism as more of a personal philosophy than an actual system of religious beliefs), but as you said, theistic satanism is absolutely a thing and there's most likely bands that truly believe in Satan as an actual entity.
@@Pentregarth As an active musician, I know quite a few theistic Satanists, of various types. Not going to name specifics, because I'm not into name dropping, or speaking on other's behalf - but I'm talking about some well known(within metal circles, of course) musicians here, from all over the world. Hell, even my own name here is sarcasm, going back to my flirtation with various types of Satanism when I was young(I'm 41 now, and made this account in my early or mid 20s).
@@evenberg8499 Absolutely! I'm not sure what it has to do with what I've said, though - unless it's just intended as a "did you know?". It's also sometimes translated as adversary. I'm absolutely into these kinds of discussions, so if that was all you intended, then it's quite welcome!
I wish you give more time for gothic metal. And i mean great bands like Theatre of Tragedy, My Dying Bride and Moonspell. Dig deeper and you’ll find similarities. I wouldn’t consider Cradle of Filth gothic, they’re more symphonic black metal (à la Dimmu Borgir), the only thing gothic about CoF is their lyrics, i’d say.
As a 40 year old metalhead, brought into early metal by my parents from birth, and the underground tape trading indoctrination by my 16 year old neighbor when I was 7(1988) with my parents' blessing - Mercyful Fate were absolutely part of the first wave of black metal. Like NWOBHM, it was a movement more than a specific sound(until it developed more, at least), and Mercyful Fate were one of the first bands I knew the term in regards to, before 1990 had even hit. First wave/proto bands are usually coming from slightly varied backgrounds, and often quite different in sound. Celtic Frost we considered thrash, Venom was thrash, Mercyful Fate was more the NWOBHM style, Blasphemy was thrash(most first wave black and death bands were called thrash at the start, because we didn't have a better term, and the extreme influences were coming from NWOBHM, and Thrash if not one or the other themselves). Bathory usually got called thrash. Then as we got the terms black and death metal, Sepultura got called death on occasion, and even black on the earliest stuff. Sarcofago was formed by an ex Sepultura member who wanted to explore that black route more(Warner), and were clearly called black pretty fast to us adopting the name for this evolving sound. Possessed was considered thrash, or death depending who you asked. Some even argued black because of the vocals. Bathory became black. Blasphemy fast became death, or black depending who you asked - then accepted as black as fast as the debate began(creating a sub genre of their own, wasn't evident yet). Mercyful Fate, we called black early on. And fun trivia about Cannibal Corpse in Ace Ventura - it was supposed to be Deicide. Jim is a metalhead, and his favorite death metal band was Deicide(his favorite grindcore is Napalm Death). When Decide couldn't do it(I don't recall the exact details), Jim asked his second favorite(in a non "You're my second choice, guys!" way) death metal band if they could do the scene. Cannibal have actually gone as far as to say that's what made their career - so it's like one of those serendipitous moments in life.
I would say that I’d prefer to have Deicide in the movie, as their music appears to be better, but considering that Glen Benton seems to me to be a brash asshole, yeah, I think Cannibal Corpse would be the less bad choice. (I say “less bad” because I don’t like them much, and it’s sort of a pick your poison deal, at least for me.)
I said it on an earlier video, but I'll say it again: this series is fantastic. Plus, as a philosophy professor, I give you full marks for getting the definition of "valid" right 😁
Yes, Type O Negative lyrics can *sound* corny. But, I actually consider it tongue-in-cheek. Black #1 certainly exemplifies this, which is their biggest hit to my knowledge.
I worked out my definition of metal: A form of rock that is especially dark or heavy sounding with a characteristic aggressive, distorted guitar sound, significant instrumental passages often including guitar solos and a lyrical emphasis on dark or serious subject matters
What about genres like Power, Prog and Symphonic Metal? Metal isn't always aggressive or dark. Btw I'm not sure about calling Metal a type of Rock. It evolved from it and there are clear influences, but saying a genre belongs to another because it evolved from it would make all of Rock, Metal, Punk and even Pop or Hip Hop some strange Jazz genres (also my opinion on the "is Metalcore Metal or not thing") . But on the rest I totally agree with you
@@tandvard9088 I don't think he was necessarily saying that it all h as to fall under these types of sound for example doom metal isn't aggressive but it is atmospheric and dark and death metal isn't atmospheric but it is aggressive and dark as long as it falls under one of these types of sounds in my opinion it counts as metal
@@tandvard9088 I admit it's hard to come up with a definition of metal that doesn't either include some rock as well or leave out some metal. That kind of makes me doubtful of your second point. Metal and rock seem to be very closely related.
I listen to metal since i was 6, and over the years i discovered lots of things i had no name for to tell people what it was like. This series is really helping me not only to understand my own tastes but metal as a whole, so great job and thanks to you!
I am binging this entire series today. Thank you for being so open-minded and honestly showing me some parts of metal that i haven't heard before, which is rare.
Confusion is understandable. I've been listening to all of this for 40 years, and different opinions can be laughable. You have done some good work young man.
If you're looking for gothic metal bands with female frontswomen like Lacuna Coil and Nightwish, here are a few bands you might like: Epica, Visions of Atlantis, Draconian, Delain, Tristania, Sirenia, Within Temptation and Xandria (some are on the heavier side while others are more symphonic, depending on the album).
Thank you for the recommendations :)!^ I remember really getting into Lacuna Coil when I was younger but haven't really visited that area of metal in years
Most of those are symphonic metal bands with a power metal base. Only Draconian, Tristania and early Within Temptation is gothic metal in your list. Epica is pure symphonic metal, Nightwish and Delain, Xandria are symphonic power metal. You forgot Theatre of Tragedy tho, which is truly gothic metal with a female frontswoman.
@@gentlefishy608 this music changed a lot. In my opinion, lacuna coil is a band that gets heavier over time. So there probably is no better time to revisit the band than now.
@@Hy-jg8ow It baffles me how often people forget about Theatre of Tragedy when talking about gothic metal. They're what I think of when I hear the term.
As a fan of Prog, Melodeath, thrash, hardcore & metalcore I'm glad that you spent so much time explaining that alot of genres grew in parallel and the most restrictive definitions are largely semantic. There is alot of cross over and considerable mutual influence between subgenres and with some bands, what subgenre they fall into is largely subjective.
This series has been amazing so far, even if there have been some needed adjustments. Metal is always evolving and the perspective of Every subgenre is ever shifting
I just heard few notes of them and said to myself ooh boy here I go again :D I'll go trough their discography again. I'm thinking about tat too, I'm not super fan or anything but the logo looks nice and I do like their music
i will never forget the time in high school when we were discussing gothic era of writing, and when asked what goth means this kid says "me i am goth" because he listens to avenged sevenfold
I was trying to study and I saw part 1 of this and I was like “yeah I’ll take a break and watch this” then I kept clicking “next part” and it just keeps going. My notes have a thick layer of dust now as I try to make it to the end.
Been binging the series. I like basically everything, from hip hop to indie to death metal. I think I can give an additional reason to hate nu metal if anyone wants it lol. Just like some people hate blackened death metal for taking the surface level stuff, it does the exact same thing with hip hop. A lot of hip hop is really just about making the best of your situation and dealing with the world around you. Nu metal is just kinda sad. That said I can dig korn. Don’t kill me
Dude, what a productive way to pass the time during the Covid19 pandemics ! Personally, I think that dividing Metal in genres and subgenres is only interesting for the industry. And it leads to argue, fights and a final division of our power as a hole. I cathegorize bands in two drawers only : the ones i like and the ones i don't... And i find victory even when i see some kids listening to shitty Metal, as they are not listening to Pop or other disposable stuff. Keep up your work, it's awesome and very valuable. And i liked your effort not to be an elitist (LOL). As an old headbanger, for me it's breath of fresh air to see new generations dedicating so much effort and brains to Metal (no matter which) !!! A special horns up for you from Brazil and please forgive my bad english and spelling. Metal up your ass !
Horrified was originally recorded in 84 and was tape traded underground for a minute before it was officially released and were an influence on both Napalm Death and Death. Napalm Death also owes a bit to hardcore band Siege
The link between Crust and Black is well-documented having Venom as an early influence to both Hellhammer and Amebix. Also, I often think of Grind as the "extreme gateway" between punks and metalhead in their quest to sonic boundaries.
Tbh in fusion bands, a band can be either genera. If a band doing jazz metal is mostly jazz with a guitar riff, its jazz. If its mostly metal with horns, its metal. And if its around the middle, its both.
Mention of goth and type of negative brought back memories of 20 odd years ago going to goth clubs. Typically the music played would be anything from later punk, through traditional goth, goth rock, industrial and stuff like synthwave. Very eclectic to say the least and usually why there'd be as many as 5 floors with one for the cyber goths typically into ebm and heavy synth stuff and others that were varying combination of goth rock and synthwave. Gothic metal wasn't very common quite then, but some metal did get thrown in the mix usually. Type of negative, nin, fear factory would typically be played lots, though obviously sisters of mercy were played so much the dj needed to replace the record due to wear!
There's a case to be made that jazz drummer Tony Williams invented the blastbeat. He doesn't use it much, but he has been using something that sounds like a jazzy blastbeat, especially with how he uses the kick, since the 70s.
Yeah. I've seen that video too. Pointing out that somebody used a technique decades ago for 1 second that is vaguely similar to modern blasting or double bass pedal use as a fill or part of a solo is NOT a very convincing argument. And I didn't buy it. Just another jazz snob going, "Look! We did it first. Here's a clip of some guy doing something that is almost (but not really, because he's not hitting the cymbals or high hat) a blast beat for 1 second!". A brief demonstration of a technical aspect of the drums is NOT the same as utilising a specific style of playing as the backbone of an entire genre.
There is a video of buddy rich playing a short section of blast beats long before it was ever used in metal. Carcass' Heartwork is actually the first Melo death album as well. Came out a few months before jester race.
I actually heard somewhere that blast beats were actually used by jazz drummers, before Mick Harris of Napalm Death and Pete Sandoval of Terrorizer and Morbid Angel's fame started using them in their respected genres.
Definitely need to touch on Hardcore more and the new wave of Hardcore. Edit: Also a current "Metallic Hardcore" band that exists today that is not "Metalcore" whatsoever would be Harm's Way.
Fun fact: the members of Dark Tranquility, At the Gates and In Flames all grew up on the same street in Gothenburg, Sweden. I always interpreted metalcire as a fuse between melodic death metal and hardcore. Which would lead to it counting as metal beneath definition B.
Yeah, the way I see it, I would say melodic metalcore could be considered a metal subgenre, due to using way more MeloDeath and even heavy metal influence rather than the fusion that is metallic hardcore, grindcore is a punk subgenre with metal influence, influence but not fusion, but deathgrind is either subgenre of death and/or fusion genre, but yeah the definition of metal can be really difficult and even personal, this is why pages like Metal Archives can be a little eh
15:52 - Something important to note about Nu Metal is that most "Nu Metal bands" only have 1 or 2 Nu Metal albums, then quickly moved on to other genres in various directions. It's a genre best collected as albums rather than bands. Also, Nu Metal is defined by heavy chugging guitar, hip hop influences, breakdowns and lots and lots of anger. It usually has a mix of both clean singing and shredding vocal chords. Ill Nino - I Am Loco Disturbed - Stupify Dry Kill Logic - Pain Slipknot - Spit It Out Mudvayne - Internal Primates Forever Drowning Pool - Bodies Hed P.E. - Killing Time Linkin Park - One Step Closer Coal Chamber - One Step Adema - Freaking Out American Head Charge - Reach and Touch Korn - Freak On a Leash Limp Bizkit - My Generation
A lot more interesting than GRRRRRRRAAA HOOO HOOO! PIG NOISES.. dont get me wrong when iam in the mood for some of it jam worthy and slaps but something playable enjoyable everyday all the time nice to heard fresh innovative skilled musicianship
Hardcore like Madball, Sworn Enemy, Blood for Blood, Biohazard, Hatebreed and so on were hardcore punk with metal influence. That's why Metalcore was originally Metallic Hardcore... We used to call it "punk metal" when we first heard it because it wasn't like the NYHC bands out there that already used metal (mostly thrash and groove) influences (crossover thrash)
YO!!! This is the first time I've heard someone use the term, 'valid,' correctly in an academic sense outside of my philosophy courses in college. Fucking sick to hear it in a metal video!
Another thing to note you said in your overview of groove metal that Phil Anselmo joined Pantera for Cowboys From Hell, but he actually sang on their 1988 album Power Metal whilst still a glam band
I disagree with putting Grindcore and modern Hardcore out of Metal and into Heavy Music. They have to much metal influence. That being said, I really enjoy your perspective and humor. You are FN hysterical!
Quick side note, ALL the Swedish, Gothenburg and Stolkholm, Used the Boss HM2 Distortion pedal in their tone, especially Entombed and Dismember, I think they were Made in Taiwan to be specific, slightly nastier. Also, I always thought War Metal was a form of Thrash, Like Some Sepultura, Warbringer, Destruction, Sodom, etc.... To me, Metal is not Happy..... its dark, its evil sounding, its depressing, its angry, its visceral, its musically proficient ( Unless you are Venom of Course, I love Venom!) and YES! Metallic Hardcore was Called Metalcore in the 90s here in the States, it is also called the New Wave Of American Heavy Metal, We considered Lamb of God, Shadows Falls, Unearth, Overcast(Who Called themselves Devilcore, Hardcore and Metal reeeeeeeeeeeeeallly Blurred in the Northeast of the United States especially. There are subgenre's of Hardcore too, Youth Crew, NY ToughGuy, Vegancore, Emocore, so fucking many.....
To me, the biggest thing that separates metal from most other genres of music is the emphasis on the instruments instead of the vocalists. Whether it's the atmosphere of doom metal or the insane technical abilities of power metal, the songs would be just as good (in a lot of cases better) without vocals. My favorite parts of Metallica songs are the intros, next favorite are the solos. This is metal. My favorite parts of Disturbed are Draiman's vocals and vocalizations. This is hard rock. Metallica can (and has) put out instrumental songs that are among my favorites of theirs. Call of Ktulu and Orion are excellent songs. I can't imagine Disturbed doing the same thing. Their songs don't really kick into gear until his voice is in the mix.
I think definition A is most useful as it is more realistic to people's taste. Starting in the 70s there was a huge overlap between fans of Sabbath, Zeppelin and Deep Purple even though definition B would only count one of them. More recently a band being "not metal" is usually down to whether people like them or not.
Not mentioned, but hugely important to both groove metal and alt metal is funk metal and funk and rock fusion. This is also hugely influential on stuff that may or not be considered metal (early nu metal, grunge). Showing my age, but yeah, alot these bands from the 80s and earlier 90s were hugely influenced by Funkadelic etc. Also, you've mentioned Industrial metal a few times, but no Godflesh? Also, to speak to ideas of heavy music that isn't heavy metal there's always been noisey bands that weren't easily defined that influenced things like drone, post and doom ie Swans. Like metal is way more eclectic in influences than is commonly acknowledged. Edit: most of this is covered in you next video in this series. But also, the part about funk and none metal influences (other than rap, alternative, and punk) is still true tho
Emocore eventually took influences of indie rock, math rock and post rock and left its hardcore origins in the past, creating what's midwest emo, which has seen quite a few waves already since it's origins in the 90s. Punk is probably the most influential genre in history, seeing how it gave origins to post punk, new wave, hardcore, emocore, midwest emo, indie rock, metalcore and a lot more.
I don't like defining a band and its genre to Metal or Hard Core based on where it comes from, like a tree of life theory of evolution thing. A band who is a mix between Hard Core and Metal should be placed in the box the use the most. I like your decision of doing it on a band to band basis.
It's chorus that floods/give Type O their sound - not reverb. Related effects, but decidedly different outcomes(they did use reverb, but it's not responsible for the sound you're attributing to it). If you flood it with distortion and reverb, then play Type O riffs, it's not going to find the Type O sound. The key is the flood of chorus.
Forgive me if you already are aware of these bands, but if early Opeth is your favorite I would highly recommend checking out Bloodbath's "The Fathomless Mastery" which has Mikael on vocals and then Black Crown Initiate which in my mind is almost Opeth's spiritual successor to their prog death metal days.
I personally also wouldn't consider Meshuggah djent. I'd instead say they wrote a couple (okay, a lot) of songs that had that very particular sound in it, which then inspired the djent movement. Likewise, I wouldn't really consider Animals As Leaders djent anymore either. They sometimes have riffs where they'll djent but then a lot of songs where it doesn't happen at all. For them, it's more of an occasional stylistic device than a style defining technique. In general (knowing many guys from the scene and being a regular at the relevant festivals), I feel like many bands have moved on from that sound which was entirely focussed on djenting and are just general prog now. Obviously, a few bands kept their style but many didn't really.
Oh, also, I've only ever heard Anathema pronounced with the emphasis on the second syllable (a-NATH-em-a). I don't know how the band themselves pronounce it. If I can be arsed, I may even look that up one day.
I, as someone who mainly listens to metalcore and deathcore am now not sure anymore if i can even call myself a metalhead or answer with "i listen to metal" when asked about my music taste 😕
![Summer Walker - Heart Of A Woman [Official Lyric Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SFddctbZzw8/mqdefault.jpg)
Not mentioning Acid Bath throughout this entire series is purely criminal. That aside I love these videos and agree on 93% of your opinions
I agree, he mentions sludge a few times and they are one of the earliest pioneers. How he mentioned mastadon under sludge, which they arent at all but never mentioned acid bath is very dissapointing.
Sammy Duet is a fucking wizard
I also agree. Acid bath kicks ass, or lsd I should say
I’m going to say hell to my fellow south louisiana boys hahahaha. Sammy is amazing and Dax>Jesus
@@dustincharbonnet3021 we gon say hello back. MORE RECOGNITION ⚜
The As I Lay Dying song structure infographic at 14:07 is a work of true brilliance.
Agreed. Laughed my ass off.
imo metalcore should really be split into two genres, one that is clearly more influenced by it's hardcore roots (maybe bring back the term metalic hardcore) and one that draws most of it's influences from metal, sure there would still be borderline cases that could go either way but I think it would make more sense
Completely agreed. I simply do not believe that Asking Alexandria and Converge belong in the same genre. For many years I've refused to accept the Metalcore thing for all the emo-image bands, and have always called it Mallcore. And while that is a derogatory term to a degree, I think it fits quite well for 95% of the bands that were floating around by 2010.
Hardcore metalcore vs metallica metalcore?
PS:
Theistic Satanism does exist, and some bands are theistic Satanists. They do believe in some... Entity. But depending on what vein they are, the chosen name varies, as does how they see this entity in relation to the Christian God. Many who see it as a reversal of Christianity actually feel Christianity is the backwards one, God is the evil being, and whatever name they use for "satan" is actually the freedom, and knowledge giver. It's actually a very complicated subject that I suggest those who know little about, saying little about. Not in a snobby way, but it really is complicated, and there are many misconceptions.
And some are what we would call actual devil worshippers, which tend to exist in 2 types - those who worship chaos, and those who genuinely see the entity in the Christian way, and are basically reversed Christians.
And all of these types legitimately exist within metal musician circles, especially black - musicians, and fans. But more musicians than it sounds like you'd expect, especially of the "Lucifer/Satan/ect was actually the good guy", and chaos types.
Chaos itself is a complicated subject, as (probably the majority)many don't see it as a negative chaos, such as wanting chaos everywhere - so much as worshipping the chaotic nature of life, existence, and nature itself.
It's also worth noting that many start as theistic Satanists of some sort when they are young, and over time develope little to no theistic beliefs. That's actually the case with many of the 2nd wave black bands.
Came here to say something in that vein, but you beat me to it. I think atheistic satanism is more popular in general nowadays (not necessarily in music subcultures only, but all around), with organizations like the Church of Satan or The Satanic Temple propagating these "beliefs", if you can even call them that (I personally view atheistic satanism as more of a personal philosophy than an actual system of religious beliefs), but as you said, theistic satanism is absolutely a thing and there's most likely bands that truly believe in Satan as an actual entity.
@@Pentregarth As an active musician, I know quite a few theistic Satanists, of various types. Not going to name specifics, because I'm not into name dropping, or speaking on other's behalf - but I'm talking about some well known(within metal circles, of course) musicians here, from all over the world.
Hell, even my own name here is sarcasm, going back to my flirtation with various types of Satanism when I was young(I'm 41 now, and made this account in my early or mid 20s).
The name "Satan" , or "Shaitan" in hebrew is interpreted as "accuser".
@@evenberg8499 Absolutely! I'm not sure what it has to do with what I've said, though - unless it's just intended as a "did you know?".
It's also sometimes translated as adversary.
I'm absolutely into these kinds of discussions, so if that was all you intended, then it's quite welcome!
So, losers!
I wish you give more time for gothic metal. And i mean great bands like Theatre of Tragedy, My Dying Bride and Moonspell. Dig deeper and you’ll find similarities. I wouldn’t consider Cradle of Filth gothic, they’re more symphonic black metal (à la Dimmu Borgir), the only thing gothic about CoF is their lyrics, i’d say.
Cradle of filth calls themselves dark metal if I'm not mistaken.
Oh cof is definitely Gothic metal, have we already forgot about Nymphétamine and Thornography?
I second that
Haha borgir
Absolutely love theatre of tragedy always have always will also the early theatre des vampires albums are among my favorites tbh
YOOOOO I never thought this would come
As a 40 year old metalhead, brought into early metal by my parents from birth, and the underground tape trading indoctrination by my 16 year old neighbor when I was 7(1988) with my parents' blessing - Mercyful Fate were absolutely part of the first wave of black metal. Like NWOBHM, it was a movement more than a specific sound(until it developed more, at least), and Mercyful Fate were one of the first bands I knew the term in regards to, before 1990 had even hit. First wave/proto bands are usually coming from slightly varied backgrounds, and often quite different in sound. Celtic Frost we considered thrash, Venom was thrash, Mercyful Fate was more the NWOBHM style, Blasphemy was thrash(most first wave black and death bands were called thrash at the start, because we didn't have a better term, and the extreme influences were coming from NWOBHM, and Thrash if not one or the other themselves). Bathory usually got called thrash. Then as we got the terms black and death metal, Sepultura got called death on occasion, and even black on the earliest stuff. Sarcofago was formed by an ex Sepultura member who wanted to explore that black route more(Warner), and were clearly called black pretty fast to us adopting the name for this evolving sound. Possessed was considered thrash, or death depending who you asked. Some even argued black because of the vocals. Bathory became black. Blasphemy fast became death, or black depending who you asked - then accepted as black as fast as the debate began(creating a sub genre of their own, wasn't evident yet). Mercyful Fate, we called black early on.
And fun trivia about Cannibal Corpse in Ace Ventura - it was supposed to be Deicide. Jim is a metalhead, and his favorite death metal band was Deicide(his favorite grindcore is Napalm Death). When Decide couldn't do it(I don't recall the exact details), Jim asked his second favorite(in a non "You're my second choice, guys!" way) death metal band if they could do the scene. Cannibal have actually gone as far as to say that's what made their career - so it's like one of those serendipitous moments in life.
Jim Carrey being a metalhead feels both out of and in character of him
Watching the CC Doc they never brought up that they were a 2nd choice and I think that info is really cool
I would say that I’d prefer to have Deicide in the movie, as their music appears to be better, but considering that Glen Benton seems to me to be a brash asshole, yeah, I think Cannibal Corpse would be the less bad choice. (I say “less bad” because I don’t like them much, and it’s sort of a pick your poison deal, at least for me.)
That Grindcore part ... that was BRILLIANT AF!!!! 🔥🔥🔥
Nice job man 🤘🏻
I said it on an earlier video, but I'll say it again: this series is fantastic. Plus, as a philosophy professor, I give you full marks for getting the definition of "valid" right 😁
Your definitions of metal remind me of the culinary vs botanical uses of the term “vegetable”.
Yes, Type O Negative lyrics can *sound* corny. But, I actually consider it tongue-in-cheek. Black #1 certainly exemplifies this, which is their biggest hit to my knowledge.
i mean mmost of their lyrics were pretty obviously tongue in cheek. From the beginning of their career they weren't very serious.
Honestly seriously defining music is a fool's errand.
I very much accept a lot more metal into the umbrella of metal than most.
I worked out my definition of metal:
A form of rock that is especially dark or heavy sounding with a characteristic aggressive, distorted guitar sound, significant instrumental passages often including guitar solos and a lyrical emphasis on dark or serious subject matters
Yes, of course. I forgot to say pretty much everyone has their own definitions. "A" and "B" are essentially just different ends of a spectrum.
That is an excellent definition
What about genres like Power, Prog and Symphonic Metal? Metal isn't always aggressive or dark. Btw I'm not sure about calling Metal a type of Rock. It evolved from it and there are clear influences, but saying a genre belongs to another because it evolved from it would make all of Rock, Metal, Punk and even Pop or Hip Hop some strange Jazz genres (also my opinion on the "is Metalcore Metal or not thing") . But on the rest I totally agree with you
@@tandvard9088 I don't think he was necessarily saying that it all h as to fall under these types of sound for example doom metal isn't aggressive but it is atmospheric and dark and death metal isn't atmospheric but it is aggressive and dark as long as it falls under one of these types of sounds in my opinion it counts as metal
@@tandvard9088 I admit it's hard to come up with a definition of metal that doesn't either include some rock as well or leave out some metal.
That kind of makes me doubtful of your second point. Metal and rock seem to be very closely related.
I listen to metal since i was 6, and over the years i discovered lots of things i had no name for to tell people what it was like. This series is really helping me not only to understand my own tastes but metal as a whole, so great job and thanks to you!
I am binging this entire series today. Thank you for being so open-minded and honestly showing me some parts of metal that i haven't heard before, which is rare.
it's been like 20 minutes but I've already watched all of it (believe me)
How does this guy have so few subscribers? His content, style and editing is brilliant.
Confusion is understandable. I've been listening to all of this for 40 years, and different opinions can be laughable. You have done some good work young man.
If you're looking for gothic metal bands with female frontswomen like Lacuna Coil and Nightwish, here are a few bands you might like: Epica, Visions of Atlantis, Draconian, Delain, Tristania, Sirenia, Within Temptation and Xandria (some are on the heavier side while others are more symphonic, depending on the album).
Thank you for the recommendations :)!^ I remember really getting into Lacuna Coil when I was younger but haven't really visited that area of metal in years
Most of those are symphonic metal bands with a power metal base. Only Draconian, Tristania and early Within Temptation is gothic metal in your list. Epica is pure symphonic metal, Nightwish and Delain, Xandria are symphonic power metal. You forgot Theatre of Tragedy tho, which is truly gothic metal with a female frontswoman.
@@gentlefishy608 this music changed a lot. In my opinion, lacuna coil is a band that gets heavier over time. So there probably is no better time to revisit the band than now.
@@Hy-jg8ow It baffles me how often people forget about Theatre of Tragedy when talking about gothic metal. They're what I think of when I hear the term.
As a fan of Prog, Melodeath, thrash, hardcore & metalcore I'm glad that you spent so much time explaining that alot of genres grew in parallel and the most restrictive definitions are largely semantic. There is alot of cross over and considerable mutual influence between subgenres and with some bands, what subgenre they fall into is largely subjective.
This series has been amazing so far, even if there have been some needed adjustments. Metal is always evolving and the perspective of Every subgenre is ever shifting
I really fucking love Type O Negative. Got their logo tattooed on my calf a few weeks ago.
I just heard few notes of them and said to myself ooh boy here I go again :D I'll go trough their discography again. I'm thinking about tat too, I'm not super fan or anything but the logo looks nice and I do like their music
Dude, thank you for all these. I just binged all the iterations. Amazingly cool and hilarious at times. Superb work.
i will never forget the time in high school when we were discussing gothic era of writing, and when asked what goth means
this kid says "me i am goth" because he listens to avenged sevenfold
Dude, it's such a delight to hear you talking. Please carry on
Dude, I watched the whole series without skipping a single second!!! It was so good! Good job!
Wasn't expecting to see part 9 this soon lol
Me neither tbh
Yeah bro, just watched the 9 parts consecutively and all I can just say you are a pretty awesome dude and I'm looking forward to part 10.
its been 3 hours i'm almost done with the series
Defining what counts as 'metal' is really difficult. Lustre are a great example of this.
Damn bro that 'Warrior of Might and Magic ' shot at the start of the vid is perfect! Great series bro!
Overlaying the Serious Sam kamikaze scream onto Messiah was /*chef's kiss*/
The Grind Goat will always live on in our hearts!
Watched the whole thing until now, love you. Subbed.
I was trying to study and I saw part 1 of this and I was like “yeah I’ll take a break and watch this” then I kept clicking “next part” and it just keeps going. My notes have a thick layer of dust now as I try to make it to the end.
Thanks for the excellent videos. Nice to see Slavoj featured more than once too.
Casually binged all 9 parts in the last two nights
Over two hours in and we need a new definition for "metal" in a series of videos about describing metal music. LOL
Did anyone else notice at 12:24 that man in the middle of the mosh pit wearing a goddamn yoshi costume
Thank you for finally mentioning Cradle of Filth \m/
The return of the king!
Also why the fuck wasnt this at the top of my recommended the second it dropped???
Really loved this series man
Been binging the series. I like basically everything, from hip hop to indie to death metal. I think I can give an additional reason to hate nu metal if anyone wants it lol. Just like some people hate blackened death metal for taking the surface level stuff, it does the exact same thing with hip hop. A lot of hip hop is really just about making the best of your situation and dealing with the world around you. Nu metal is just kinda sad. That said I can dig korn. Don’t kill me
Dude, what a productive way to pass the time during the Covid19 pandemics !
Personally, I think that dividing Metal in genres and subgenres is only interesting for the industry.
And it leads to argue, fights and a final division of our power as a hole.
I cathegorize bands in two drawers only : the ones i like and the ones i don't...
And i find victory even when i see some kids listening to shitty Metal, as they are not listening to Pop or other disposable stuff.
Keep up your work, it's awesome and very valuable. And i liked your effort not to be an elitist (LOL).
As an old headbanger, for me it's breath of fresh air to see new generations dedicating so much effort and brains to Metal (no matter which) !!!
A special horns up for you from Brazil and please forgive my bad english and spelling.
Metal up your ass !
Horrified was originally recorded in 84 and was tape traded underground for a minute before it was officially released and were an influence on both Napalm Death and Death. Napalm Death also owes a bit to hardcore band Siege
These videos could continue indefinitely
the duesseldorfer cyber goths xD are legendary
The link between Crust and Black is well-documented having Venom as an early influence to both Hellhammer and Amebix.
Also, I often think of Grind as the "extreme gateway" between punks and metalhead in their quest to sonic boundaries.
Tbh in fusion bands, a band can be either genera. If a band doing jazz metal is mostly jazz with a guitar riff, its jazz. If its mostly metal with horns, its metal. And if its around the middle, its both.
That ending, cheif's kiss.
Gothic Music in general is defined by the ability to play it over the Addams Family and it weirdly works
Mention of goth and type of negative brought back memories of 20 odd years ago going to goth clubs. Typically the music played would be anything from later punk, through traditional goth, goth rock, industrial and stuff like synthwave. Very eclectic to say the least and usually why there'd be as many as 5 floors with one for the cyber goths typically into ebm and heavy synth stuff and others that were varying combination of goth rock and synthwave. Gothic metal wasn't very common quite then, but some metal did get thrown in the mix usually.
Type of negative, nin, fear factory would typically be played lots, though obviously sisters of mercy were played so much the dj needed to replace the record due to wear!
11:40 always nice to see Darkplace references
There's a case to be made that jazz drummer Tony Williams invented the blastbeat. He doesn't use it much, but he has been using something that sounds like a jazzy blastbeat, especially with how he uses the kick, since the 70s.
Yeah. I've seen that video too. Pointing out that somebody used a technique decades ago for 1 second that is vaguely similar to modern blasting or double bass pedal use as a fill or part of a solo is NOT a very convincing argument.
And I didn't buy it.
Just another jazz snob going,
"Look! We did it first. Here's a clip of some guy doing something that is almost (but not really, because he's not hitting the cymbals or high hat) a blast beat for 1 second!".
A brief demonstration of a technical aspect of the drums is NOT the same as utilising a specific style of playing as the backbone of an entire genre.
There is a video of buddy rich playing a short section of blast beats long before it was ever used in metal. Carcass' Heartwork is actually the first Melo death album as well. Came out a few months before jester race.
I actually heard somewhere that blast beats were actually used by jazz drummers, before Mick Harris of Napalm Death and Pete Sandoval of Terrorizer and Morbid Angel's fame started using them in their respected genres.
Oh yeah for sure, idk if those instances would be fast enough to be considered a blast beat though
Definitely need to touch on Hardcore more and the new wave of Hardcore.
Edit: Also a current "Metallic Hardcore" band that exists today that is not "Metalcore" whatsoever would be Harm's Way.
Holy fuck it's been a year since part 8, glad you're continuing this 🤟🤟
Replying from a seperate account
Fun fact: the members of Dark Tranquility, At the Gates and In Flames all grew up on the same street in Gothenburg, Sweden.
I always interpreted metalcire as a fuse between melodic death metal and hardcore. Which would lead to it counting as metal beneath definition B.
Here's my definition on "Metal" as a Metalhead: it's like Hard Rock, but heavy and a little more complex.
Yeah, the way I see it, I would say melodic metalcore could be considered a metal subgenre, due to using way more MeloDeath and even heavy metal influence rather than the fusion that is metallic hardcore, grindcore is a punk subgenre with metal influence, influence but not fusion, but deathgrind is either subgenre of death and/or fusion genre, but yeah the definition of metal can be really difficult and even personal, this is why pages like Metal Archives can be a little eh
15:52 - Something important to note about Nu Metal is that most "Nu Metal bands" only have 1 or 2 Nu Metal albums, then quickly moved on to other genres in various directions. It's a genre best collected as albums rather than bands. Also, Nu Metal is defined by heavy chugging guitar, hip hop influences, breakdowns and lots and lots of anger. It usually has a mix of both clean singing and shredding vocal chords.
Ill Nino - I Am Loco
Disturbed - Stupify
Dry Kill Logic - Pain
Slipknot - Spit It Out
Mudvayne - Internal Primates Forever
Drowning Pool - Bodies
Hed P.E. - Killing Time
Linkin Park - One Step Closer
Coal Chamber - One Step
Adema - Freaking Out
American Head Charge - Reach and Touch
Korn - Freak On a Leash
Limp Bizkit - My Generation
A lot more interesting than GRRRRRRRAAA HOOO HOOO! PIG NOISES.. dont get me wrong when iam in the mood for some of it jam worthy and slaps but something playable enjoyable everyday all the time nice to heard fresh innovative skilled musicianship
Finally someone mentions Ill Nino literally once
I love Alt Metal and the way you describe it is spot on
Oh man your Nu metal breakdown is great too
Please make a chronological Spotify playlist(s?) starting from pre-Black Sabbath, featuring a couple of songs from important bands and genres!
OMG LOUDER THAN HELL WAS THE BOOK I WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT!!!
Yes, and that is Grindcore, the Musik I love ❤️
Hardcore like Madball, Sworn Enemy, Blood for Blood, Biohazard, Hatebreed and so on were hardcore punk with metal influence. That's why Metalcore was originally Metallic Hardcore... We used to call it "punk metal" when we first heard it because it wasn't like the NYHC bands out there that already used metal (mostly thrash and groove) influences (crossover thrash)
Damn, dude! The last section of this video, reminds me of Excalibur the AEW announcer
YO IM SO HYPE THERES MORE PARTS!!!!!
YO!!! This is the first time I've heard someone use the term, 'valid,' correctly in an academic sense outside of my philosophy courses in college. Fucking sick to hear it in a metal video!
Another thing to note you said in your overview of groove metal that Phil Anselmo joined Pantera for Cowboys From Hell, but he actually sang on their 1988 album Power Metal whilst still a glam band
I disagree with putting Grindcore and modern Hardcore out of Metal and into Heavy Music. They have to much metal influence.
That being said, I really enjoy your perspective and humor. You are FN hysterical!
At it again with bleed from within. I love pathfinder
Quick side note, ALL the Swedish, Gothenburg and Stolkholm, Used the Boss HM2 Distortion pedal in their tone, especially Entombed and Dismember, I think they were Made in Taiwan to be specific, slightly nastier. Also, I always thought War Metal was a form of Thrash, Like Some Sepultura, Warbringer, Destruction, Sodom, etc.... To me, Metal is not Happy..... its dark, its evil sounding, its depressing, its angry, its visceral, its musically proficient ( Unless you are Venom of Course, I love Venom!) and YES! Metallic Hardcore was Called Metalcore in the 90s here in the States, it is also called the New Wave Of American Heavy Metal, We considered Lamb of God, Shadows Falls, Unearth, Overcast(Who Called themselves Devilcore, Hardcore and Metal reeeeeeeeeeeeeallly Blurred in the Northeast of the United States especially. There are subgenre's of Hardcore too, Youth Crew, NY ToughGuy, Vegancore, Emocore, so fucking many.....
To me, the biggest thing that separates metal from most other genres of music is the emphasis on the instruments instead of the vocalists. Whether it's the atmosphere of doom metal or the insane technical abilities of power metal, the songs would be just as good (in a lot of cases better) without vocals. My favorite parts of Metallica songs are the intros, next favorite are the solos. This is metal. My favorite parts of Disturbed are Draiman's vocals and vocalizations. This is hard rock. Metallica can (and has) put out instrumental songs that are among my favorites of theirs. Call of Ktulu and Orion are excellent songs. I can't imagine Disturbed doing the same thing. Their songs don't really kick into gear until his voice is in the mix.
Yeees! More Metal and scottish accents 🤘
The micro machine guy would be proud 26:07
well, "Gothgrind" gave me a good chuckle
17:03 - 17:24 Thank you. This is accurate.
"5:00 Antichristos bj Sepvĺtvra on their 1st albam Bestial Devastation caem avs inn '85."
I think definition A is most useful as it is more realistic to people's taste. Starting in the 70s there was a huge overlap between fans of Sabbath, Zeppelin and Deep Purple even though definition B would only count one of them. More recently a band being "not metal" is usually down to whether people like them or not.
Not mentioned, but hugely important to both groove metal and alt metal is funk metal and funk and rock fusion. This is also hugely influential on stuff that may or not be considered metal (early nu metal, grunge). Showing my age, but yeah, alot these bands from the 80s and earlier 90s were hugely influenced by Funkadelic etc.
Also, you've mentioned Industrial metal a few times, but no Godflesh?
Also, to speak to ideas of heavy music that isn't heavy metal there's always been noisey bands that weren't easily defined that influenced things like drone, post and doom ie Swans.
Like metal is way more eclectic in influences than is commonly acknowledged.
Edit: most of this is covered in you next video in this series. But also, the part about funk and none metal influences (other than rap, alternative, and punk) is still true tho
Emocore eventually took influences of indie rock, math rock and post rock and left its hardcore origins in the past, creating what's midwest emo, which has seen quite a few waves already since it's origins in the 90s. Punk is probably the most influential genre in history, seeing how it gave origins to post punk, new wave, hardcore, emocore, midwest emo, indie rock, metalcore and a lot more.
I don't like defining a band and its genre to Metal or Hard Core based on where it comes from, like a tree of life theory of evolution thing.
A band who is a mix between Hard Core and Metal should be placed in the box the use the most.
I like your decision of doing it on a band to band basis.
Another good gothic doom band I'd recommend is Sweden's Draconian
It's chorus that floods/give Type O their sound - not reverb. Related effects, but decidedly different outcomes(they did use reverb, but it's not responsible for the sound you're attributing to it). If you flood it with distortion and reverb, then play Type O riffs, it's not going to find the Type O sound. The key is the flood of chorus.
If crowd is allowed on stage, it's core
Labels are fawking exhausting! Just fawking rock \m/
Yeeeah!!! I've missed this type of videos!!
I think that the true definition of metal lays between the two you used, the rules are strict, but not too strict
Forgive me if you already are aware of these bands, but if early Opeth is your favorite I would highly recommend checking out Bloodbath's "The Fathomless Mastery" which has Mikael on vocals and then Black Crown Initiate which in my mind is almost Opeth's spiritual successor to their prog death metal days.
Hellripper is so great
Nice, I recently found this series and wanted more
10:55 Heavy Music is not also rock/blues influenced music but also some forms of Rap and Trap such as Dark Trap
I personally also wouldn't consider Meshuggah djent. I'd instead say they wrote a couple (okay, a lot) of songs that had that very particular sound in it, which then inspired the djent movement. Likewise, I wouldn't really consider Animals As Leaders djent anymore either. They sometimes have riffs where they'll djent but then a lot of songs where it doesn't happen at all.
For them, it's more of an occasional stylistic device than a style defining technique. In general (knowing many guys from the scene and being a regular at the relevant festivals), I feel like many bands have moved on from that sound which was entirely focussed on djenting and are just general prog now. Obviously, a few bands kept their style but many didn't really.
The best way to define metal seem to be ”heaviness” + history. But HOW would one musically define metal without having a history lesson?
Brought up grindcore and death metal again and still didn’t mention bolt thrower
Oh, also, I've only ever heard Anathema pronounced with the emphasis on the second syllable (a-NATH-em-a). I don't know how the band themselves pronounce it.
If I can be arsed, I may even look that up one day.
Love how scottish you are. My GF is too and it's only because of her i understand the references.
I, as someone who mainly listens to metalcore and deathcore am now not sure anymore if i can even call myself a metalhead or answer with "i listen to metal" when asked about my music taste 😕