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6 Fatal Flaws In Mormonism (CES Letter Breakdown)
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- Опубликовано: 8 июн 2019
- In this video, I address fatal problems with Mormonism. Why are there 1769 version King James bible mistranslations in the book of mormon? How does Mormonism explain DNA analysis of native americans turning up as unrelated to ancient israelites? If adam and eve were the first humans, how do you explain the other hominid species that liveed before Adam? I address these questions, and many more.
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So glad you covered the CES letter in depth. Great job! 🙏
LMAOOOO
Sup Jesus hows God been?
hey man, hows everything going? hope youre good
Hi Jeeeeeesus!!!!!
The.. irony..?
Thanks for doing this video. After 33 years in the Mormon church, the CES letter is what woke me up and allowed me to open my mind. It’s the red pill from the Matrix. Very difficult for me, but I’m so glad I found it.
Emily Barclay thanks I appreciate that! I realized looking back there were a lot of red flags, but I chose to maintain my faith because that’s all I knew. I’m only about 5 months out from when I made the decision to leave and I feel more free than ever. Happier too. So long Mormon guilt!
You should be proud of yourself, Kristina, you're one of few people who have the courage and strength to do this!!
@Emily Barclay Mormons don't teach that you go to hell for more less anything. It's more like you can go to a lesser heaven where you don't get to live with your family, or God, forever. They can visit you though. It's not as bad as hell, but still...
@@miguelthealpaca8971 I agree but when you combine the teachings of sins of commission and omission with the role faith applies to forgiveness and the need for complete sincerity for repentance plus the inability of God to tolerate any sin in the least degree, it felt to me that you could be assigned to a lesser kingdom for virtually any little thing. They used to describe "the wailing and gnashing of teeth" as an eternal anguish you will suffer for realizing you can't be with your family or enjoy the presence of the Lord. At least that's what they taught in my youth. You could have some progression within a kingdom but never leave that kingdom. But at least your body isn't burning in a lake of fire, renewing each day for eternity.
The sad thing is Mormons wouldn't get that reference, as the Matrix is R-rated. Im so glad to be out of the cult!
"For realsies, instead of pretendsies!" 😂 loved that
You forgot to mention how the Book of Mormon has horses, despite how it’s in the 600s BC
@Please Complete All Fields Tapirs? :v What's that, some supernatural beast?
@@AR15ORIGINAL Google says similar in shape to a pig? Looks like a pig/elephant/Hippo? Hard to confuse with a horse? To me anyway... Js? Tf?
If he went through everything that was wrong in the book of Mormon we'd be here all day
@Please Complete All Fields my dad showed me some mormon propaganda of tapirs basically showing some weird pictures of horses.... Made my day XD
Please Complete All Fields.... they are riding... tapirs into battle? And why aren’t tapirs still tamed?
The most damning for me is the treasure hunting part because I’ve been told all my life that they were magic stones buried in a tomb with the golden plates
I can testify to that, i specifically recall being taught in primary and in young mens that the stones were buried with the golden plates, and all this goes against that teaching
not to mention, the several artist depictions hanging in churches of smith looking at and directly handling the plates, further enforcing in our minds that they were translated directly instead of looking into a hat
they dont even have the urim and thummim being used in these depictions, which i always thought was strange too since we were taught that he used them as well
very confusing...
So, it's all hogwash of course, but there were apparently three stones used, one was his seer stone, which is the one he used to treasure hunt, and then the supposed Urim and Thummim buried with the plates which he hardly seemed to use, but yeah... it's all so silly in retrospect.
Ok I still don’t get how magic is believable....Why was that not the damning part? When someone tells you of sone magical thing that occurred, isn’t that when logic should kick in and you go wait what? It’s mind boggling that people get told that and still stay Mormon
ZeeZee OnTop Most of us ex-mormons grew up in the church and were indoctrinated with these stories long before we had the capacity for objective reasoning. And just like most cults, Mormonism is extremely clever in the way it’s designed to make members so dependent on it that denying simple logic is much easier than isolating oneself from the church (and often their entire family). The obvious red flags about the church’s claims found in the CES letter are heavily hidden from its members so that they seem more plausible, but most doubting Mormons who do eventually find the CES letter wake up to the bullshit.
Jill St. Clair what is the CES letter and who published it? It’s scary how people indoctrinate their own kids. Luckily I grew up with folks who gave us info and we could decide on our own.
Clickbait. Nothing to do with the consumer electronics show.
this comment made me laugh out loud. thanks dude lol
I don't know why I was recommended this video either. LOL.
I laughed out loud at this too.
For whatever it's worth, he's talking about the C.E.S (Mormon's Church Education System) letter: a letter to CES.
Same acronym. Very different things. 🤣
Mormonism has some weird stuff about Native Americans/First Nations people which led to my hatred of Mormonism. Why? They attacked not just myself and my mom, but my ancestors.
Mormanism has a history of racism. Just look up their reasoning why black people have dark skin.
No need to hate, they are just ignorant.
@@pt7604 It is not "hate" to point out the very verifiable fact that Mormonism has a "history of racism." Wanna read a doosey? Check out this speech Brigham Young gave about why Africans should be slaves/denied the Priesthood: www.utlm.org/onlineresources/sermons_talks_interviews/brigham1852feb5_priesthoodandblacks.htm
@@pt7604 bad ideas must be called out
I have a very good friend who is Metís. She's mormon and I just... don't understand how she can equate the two. Like. I hopped in her car about... 40 mins ago and the Book of Mormon was sitting on her passenger seat
It is amazing how people believe a religion founded by a known fraud. Even at the time he was a known career criminal.
Most mormons don't know that. I didnt until i watched telltales timeline
@@bloomygirl315 Blaming one rando for sticking with a belief system built on lies isn't an excuse. It does sound like one of those "christian persecution stories" that don't pan out under the light of day.
@@danmorgan3685 I would agree with you, but I experienced it myself. I don't think Rhea was trying to justify the decision to stay because of the protester but rather show how the constant inoculation keeps you from considering options. I was born in a mormon family in a mormon community. News was pro-LDS. My junior high principle was my bishop (pastor) and many of my teachers were LDS. The doctrine, the excuses, the warnings against listening to anyone else started at a very young age. It is the church against the entire wicked world. It seems crazy; and it is - a craziness I imposed upon myself for about 35 years (not counting childhood when others imposed it on me). I (probably like Rhea) don't blame anyone; just an insane dedication to an insincere church for our blindness.
A perfect example of HYPNO-christianity (or religiosity as well)! When people make excuses for something we CAN PROVE WRONG indicates hypnotic conditioning!
Exactly as Ashen Rose said. They don't teach this stuff and most people don't know to look for it until they're to the point that it's irrefutably false anyway.
I got an ad for scientology right before this video 😤
EVERY atheist video I click on in YT is preceded by a PureFLIX ad. Do they know they are funding ALL the atheists on the platform?
@@BrianMillsMFA ya but allot of on the fence theists watch these videos to. that who they are targeting not the confirmed atheists.
The Hubbard & Smith circus is in town.
Get your tickets now.
Maybe click on it so they lose money? haha
As someone raised in the Mormon church I can confirm that most of them have never heard of the letter. It is actually very discouraged to even look at any form of anti-mormon literature. tHaT's NoT sUsPiCtIoUs At AlL.
You have to ask yourself that if JS could find treasure using his peep stone, why would he ask people to pay him to find treasure, why not just go find the treasure for himself 🙄
Dear Dean, just read your comment, one of the greatest ever put forth! So simple, so true! It hits with such power that the mocker is left speechless! Thank you!
My husband got me to read the CES letter and the first thing is what got me. Thank you for your videos!
Jim Bennett DEBUNKED the CES Letter crap.
Learning about the papyrus in seminary was really the final nail in the coffin for me. I'm super into ancient Egypt, have been for as long as I can remember, and when we were learning about it in seminary I got really excited. Then I actually saw a picture of some of the hieroglyphics. It was visibly not a holy book. VISIBLY WRONG. TO A 14 YEAR OLD. AT 6:45 IN THE MORNING. I locked eyes with my bff and we both just *knew*
@tiger bush who the hell pissed in your cheerios this morning?
@tiger bush well tone it down, edgelord. I'm just sharing my story. If you don't like it, just ignore it and move along like the rest of us
That's too bad Alexis. The more I researched the Book of Abraham, the more convinced I've become that Joseph really did have a prophetic gift. Years after Joseph's death many ancient records have emerged that contain extra Biblical facts about Abraham. It's shocking how many consistencies there are with the Book of Abraham. I would recommend continuing your research with accurate and fair info. God bless.
@@tylerahlstrom4553 ...no? The papyrus was wrong, that's all there is to it. Have you ever seen it? It's clearly about a burial ceremony, one can even see the organ jars and Anubis. It's something about a dude's funeral, not a holy book. :)
Joe Smith Jr. was a horny con man !
Thank you for making this video. I'm a young mormon who doesn't believe in the church since about two years ago, and have very rarely gone during the past year (only at christmas and when I returned home to Sweden for three weeks). I wasn't aware of the CES until I heard it mentioned in one of your videos. I'm pretty sure my dad knew because he's told me about a lot of this stuff. He left the church when I was very little, and was the one to convince me that it wasn't true. So there is that, and some pretty messed up stuff that happened/is happening on my (mostly) mormon side of the family.
Anyway, the most damning evidence is probably the fact that Joseph Smith was a fraud. Again, thank you. I really appreciate your videos.
I'm glad you found the truth before being fully indoctrinated into their beliefs.
check out the r/exmormon sub on Reddit. It is FULL of all kinds of crazy (but real to Mormons) stuff not found in the CES Letter...
I’m like that too. I’m also young (14) and I found out almost exactly a year ago. My father also left the church when I was younger and helped me to realize something might not be quite right. Cheers to freedom.
Are u living in Utah?
@@oumartraore606 Not me, fortunately.
A major contributor to why I left was because of the letter. I think you should make more videos exposing the mormon church for what it is
kiritorion Jaden McCumber I think the only reason he holds off on that is that he didn’t grow up in it as he mentioned in his other videos. Another collaboration with Mr.Athiest would help though
The Nephites are one of four groups of ancient Hebrews (along with the Lamanites, Jaredites, and Mulekites) to be described in the Book of Mormon as having settled in the ancient Americas and built cities.
Still looking for the remains of those cities.
Nothing so far.
@@JamesRichardWiley How about the city of Laman? It is still around with its ancient name...
This just made me rembember when I saw South Park "All About Mormons", I thougth that it was over exaggerated or made up, no way that anyone can believe such ridiculus things...how wrong I was.
I believe Jeremy ws an active member when he sent the letter. He was not a bitter ex-member trying to stir up trouble. He was an active member in a full blown faith crisis. He wanted the church to be true, but couldn't reconcile these inconvenient facts with his faith.
I know it's long, but you should watch his interview on Mormon Stories.
Its a shame that no mormons will ever find this, because they have been told by the apostles that "The Internet has no truth filter and that sifting through the Internet for information is akin to roaming through garbage.”
Mormon here. Listened to the entire video and still believe. Also, you're using those words out of context. The internet is not inherently evil. 😂
@@titani1k How is it out of context? I don't see how it is in any way.
Barnum told more truth than Joseph Smith
It was "a sucker born every minute", until *Ol' Joe* okayed polygamy
@@vallisdaemonumofficial the Barnum quote is fake. And he promoted anti-contraception laws
Funny this comes out the same day as my video where I shared my experiences right after reading the CES Letter. As a former Mormon, it absolutely blew my mind, even though I've been out for 8 years.
That peep stone image in the CES letter - I still cannot get over that. It blows my mind. So different from the pictures we were shown growing up.
To be fair, pretty much everything is completely made up.
Amen to that.
Thank you Hermann, you have definitely reached the pinnacle of profound! Now what? Gotta live in this made up world and and it's lack of "DEEP?" Just ain't fair.
The words of the book of mormon were supposedly translated one word at a time then repeated back so as to eliminate any chance of making mistakes yet the 1830 version showed the godhead as one like most christians believe then the book was revised to show the godhead as three different beings. Thousands of changed were made to the book. So much for being the most correct book of all time as they claim.
The truth cannot be altered.
Everyone....please go see Mormon Stories interview of Jeremy Runnells, author of The CES Letter. Best Mormon interview story I’ve ever seen!
In the King James Version, it uses the word brass, when a correct translation is bronze.
The book of Mormon, in the books of 1st and 2nd Nephi it say brass over and over again. According to the Book of Mormon, 1st and 2nd Nephi were written around 600 BCE, despite there having been very little brass even in the late BCE era. It also talks of compasses, which they didn't have back then, especially the Hebrews.
@Jim Caponzi How can you blaspheme when there is no god to blaspheme against?
Why does Adam and Eve always have a belly button on all illustrations, if they were the first people on earth?
When I see CES, I think Consumer Electronics Show, ack.
Do you think the planet Kolub is close to the planet Mongo where Ming the Merciless caused so much trouble for Flash Gordon?
City electrical supply for me.
I agree with the first point, it proves the 'ancient tablets' are anything but. Not that we didn't know that; because he apparently lost his 'translations' three times, he 'retranslated' them for his followers. Who should have seen through him the second time that happened, and apparently didn't.
Everything Smith claimed was a "revelation" came from his own brain.
Nothing unusual about that.
*Interesting and contradictory is this:* The LDS believe in a great apostasy after the death of the last apostle and thus believe that the Church was VERY apostate by 325 ad when 318 Catholic Bishops met to articulate the Doctrine of the Trinity ... yet the LDS tacitly trust the authority of Catholic bishops _70 years later_ to have declared what books belong in their bible, holding the very same 27 New Testament writings out of several hundred early Christian writings that these Bishops declared to be God's Written Word. All these Catholic Bishops who did so were Trinitarians. The LDS use a Catholic and Trinitarian book.
The sticking your face in a hat thing would have rang bells for me! 🤣
Probably so, you being among the ding-dongs of the world!
Ex-Mormon here. I can confirm I didn’t even know about this letter until now, much less the content. Had I known I would’ve left sooner.
I used to be an LDS (mormon) high priest and temple ordinance worker. Now I'm an atheist because of what my own research showed me about the bible, book of mormon, pearl of great price, and mormon leaders from Joseph Smith on down. I hadn't heard of the CES letter until after I became an agnostic atheist. But I'm thankful that it exists and wakes people up.
Michael Finley well if you would have just read the HOLY BIBLE you would have saw that Peter & Jesus both warned if anyone preached a different gospel, EVEN AN ANGEL FROM HEAVEN, preached a different gospel than what they had heard, let that person be DAMNED! Then you get a couple of frauds, Mohammed & Joseph Smith, who BOTH say, “an angel from heaven came down & preached me a NEW GOSPEL”! AND MILLIONS OF FOOLS JUST BLINDLY EXCEPT THESE GOD DAMNED “NEW GOSPELS” AS TRUTH? You’re just realizing that you have always been an atheist, being mormon, you never believed in Jesus as Lord & Savior!
A great read on the founding of the Mormons is "No Man Knows My History" By F.M. Brodie. Brodie was a Mormon and excommunicated for writing this history of Joseph Smith.
So, Joseph Smith (phoney sounding
name) would place some magical
seer stones in a hat, them look down
inside the hat to make his prophecies.
Gee! Is that where the expression "talking
through your hat" comes from?
LOL!! good shot!!
It would be one stone, the one he got from a neighbor's well as a teen and used to divine the location of buried treasure which his client/mark would never be able to actually retrieve. He used it for multiple cons
You are right, but Joseph Smith was his real name though.
That was about the only thing true about him !
Yea big and fat, kinda like looking at an X-ray and seeing what the natural eye can't! Then knowing where to fix the broken bones that are revealed, MAGICALLY!
@@bubelominuteman1805 drivel
yay new video
The CES Letter was what finally got me out. It was like, I’ve had so many small issues and unanswered questions, and then I read the letter and it felt like a weight was lifted. Because now I don’t need to worry about the small inconsistencies. I can just say it’s all false.
hopefully someday, i'll be able to get my parents to finally look at the CES letter, instead of pretending it doesn't exist. it's been several years since i read it and tried to tell them, but i still have hope
It's so hard not to be a hypocrite with so much information online.
It's so hard. They'll trust someone in the church that says they've read it and "refute" it, and just move on.
Honestly the way I got out was accidental, due to curiosity on the internet and seeing a lot of the church's lies
The CES Letter is a pack of lies.
As an ex mormon myself I know this stuff will be dismissed often as misinformation but i think the best thing to get people in the church to question would be handing them this letter and saying that to not consider and look into its legitimacy would be an act of self deceit and evidence that they prefer delusions this will force them to question themselves if they read it or not
I see people saying they can't wait to show their tbm families. But I know if I showed my mom, she'd dismiss it as Satan at his finest.
It used to be the lack of genetic, archaeological, or linguistic evidence to support the Book of Mormon that sealed it for me, but now I would have to say it is the fact that the LDS Church endorses a hieroglyphic document as the source of the Book of Abraham when it is just a common funeral document.
The thing that did it for me, was the idea that thousands of people base their religion on a book written by a treasure hunter who stuck his head in a hat in order to write a book. I have tried, but I honestly cannot make that sound in any way logical.
Can we talk about the fact that tank looks amazing? 12:18
Yes that tank is well drawn, it gave me an art orgasm
As a kid raised mormon, my mom always told me that Adam and Eve were the first, not the only and that the flood was an isolated event in only Noah's region. Now, I understand that's her version of the apologetics and mental gymnastics to make it all fit. Not to mention, if any priesthood holders caught her saying stuff like that, she could face accusations of apostasy.
There is no way a person would be accused of apostasy by thinking the flood was local or by teaching evolution. The church has no official policy on many of these issues related to science. Many church leaders have had varying views on such things. If your belief is you could be kicked for thinking such things, no wonder you haven't stayed with us. My experience has taught me of a much softer, less dogmatic church.
@@tylerahlstrom4553 I really am not trying to be sarcastic or start an argument with my response, so I apologize in advance if it may seem like it. My emotions just tend to run high on these things. I'm extremely grateful for you that that has been your experience in the church. However, it has not been mine. I have seen people in my home ward be excommunicated for the very thing I was just discussing. It was to the point where, one time, I went to my bishop to approach him with some incorrect gospel and secular information being taught in my Sunday school class. Once I explained my concerns over the misinformation to him (which had been going on for upwards of 6 months, not just a one-time occurrence), he threatened me with disciplinary action because I was undermining our teacher's priesthood authority. This is just one example of many I have from my personal experience related to that topic.
The most damning for me deals with the Book of Mormon... except its the "View of the Hebrews" a book written 7 years before the book of mormon and almost exactly the same story.
As an ex mormon, every time I’d question anything, all the leaders would get upset with me for not believing the book, and more importantly god. I found it ridiculous when I was 13, being told polygamy was okay in heaven, but not on earth. (Personally, I don’t have a problem with polygamy as long as EVERYONE is consensual) I found the hypocrisy annoying, and I just kept asking why polygamy was okay there and not here. Not to mention, is an already married women able to accept her husband marrying another women? Or is it a case where the wife doesn’t have a say, like in flds?
Also a lot of the people who claimed to be so ‘accepting,’ turned out to be the people who, to this day, talk about me on Sundays. Obviously it’s not in a good way, many of the kids did, and still continue to bully me cause I don’t follow god. (Wouldn’t really surprise me to find out many of the adults do too) I wouldn’t EVER recommend anyone go to Mormon church, because I was brainwashed and not accepted for my differences. There are good people that are Mormon, but a lot of them cherry pick what they’ll follow, and are extremely hypocritical.
For people saying to love thy fellow neighbour, they don’t seem too keen on doing so for anyone who’s different.
8:20
"Some people can read the instructions on a chewing gum wrapper, and unlock the secrets of the universe."
I’m a little triggered at your pronunciation of papyrus. Love your videos though.
Pap-eye- rus
Wow, thanks for covering this! I'll have to look that up.
Thank you so much. I am a Mormon who is questioning my faith and I will definitely have to read that letter. I hadn’t even heard of it before I watched your videos.
I hope you do. There is a lot to unpack there. I was a missionary and a bishop in the church. I left not particularly because of the CES letter although the story of how the church treated the letter when it first came out bothered me a bit. I started to leave because I was trying to mend theological conflicts having to do with sins of commission/sins of omission/steps of repentance/the role faith plays in God forgiving sin and it started to fall apart. Five years I studied and wrote down what I learned and finally, reluctantly had to admit it wasn't for me. Good luck. If you decide to stay at least you will have a fuller picture. If you decide to leave, it can be a tough emotional journey but you are not alone.
Rick Skeptical Thank you, I will need it.
3 years later. Interested in what has happened in your life since…
Don’t forget that characters in the Book of Mormon have names suspiciously similar to those of areas near where Joseph Smith grew up
While this is true, that kind of evidence is more circumstantial in nature than other evidence we have. Imho that's the CES letter's weakest argument. The BoM, BoA, Kinderhook plates, and polygamy arguments are much more substantial.
I've read the CES I've also read the reply by Jim Bennett. Its amazing how far this guy will go to defend his cult.
Mormon apologists are honestly terrifying
I'm surprised you didn't mention the Kinderhook plates!
After three years of being a Mormon the book of Abraham did it for me 👍🏻good job keep slapping✋ the The true to this Mormon church this mine control religion I am happy that I am out🤗👼🏻😁🎉🎊
10,000 would be ideal for the most genetic diversity.
@Ash J We as a race, deserve to die out since we're destroying our own planet anyway.
I might send this video to shadiversity Id love to see what he thinks about it.
(Edit) this comment was not intended to insult or harass or encourage others to harass shadiversity I actually really like him and his content I think he’s very knowledgeable (even though I am atheist and disagree with him on this one topic) I meant the above statement literally and directly. I really would genuinely like to know what his thoughts on this video would be.
Lmao, I was thinking the exact same thing. Sad, someone who likes knowledge and history so much will ignore it just because some books tells him to do so.
I have also wondered what Shad would think about such things. He did say something vague about a lot of the criticism of Mormonism being based on lies, at one point, so I imagine he's already dismissed things like Joseph Smith being a known fraud as lies. What I'm not inclined to do is send him criticism of Mormonism to respond to. I don't like Shad when he's defensive.
Yes, how dare anyone talk about something or someone you don't know or care about? He's just a guy with a moderately large YT channel about medieval history, who also happens to be a mormon. It is hardly surprising that he would have a few subscribers in common with Telltale just at random, or that those who do subscribe to both might wish Shad would take off his blinders with respect to the history of Mormonism.
I never noticed but it makes sense after hearing he is doing consulting work for Brandon Sanderson. Also can we get a video on the cult of Brandon Sanderson? Ive been a member since 2016.
About 40 years ago, not long after I returned from my mission, a guy I knew from high school wanted to talk to me. DNA analysis was pretty new, but it had been used to disprove the genetic origins of the Native Americans. He gave that information to me, and I squirmed and made excuses, and I told him he was wrong. I wrestled with it, though, and I eventually couldn’t accept the Church view any longer. He planted the seed. Thanks, Phillip!
I thought it was pretty obvious, to be honest that Native Americans were of Asian descent due to their eyes and facial structure. But I'm guessing back in the day these people probably never even seen an Asian person, lol.
The leadership’s explanation for the Egyptian papyrus translation is downright insulting, if I were a Mormon, I’d rethink everything the so called leadership has ever said.
I had been questioning my faith for a while, but I was afraid to just... give up my 'eternal salvation'. Then I saw a mention to the CES letter in a RUclips comment. I decided to give it a read for the hell of it. I felt so much relief seeing what I finally needed to cast away the church. It was fake. We were told that if Smith was a fraud then the whole church was fake. And I will not follow that man's religion.
He got a lot of his information from The Tanners' work. He just condensed it down. He said so himself. Just in case you thought he was bringing out original points. I like how he writes and it definitely was a service putting it out there.
This might surprise you to know that many of the questions in the CES Letter were originally posed by Fawn Brody in her work "No Man Knows my History."
You are evil for spreading this truth around. These things must be kept a secret known only to the highest levels of the cult...um.. I mean the church,
Keep putting the truth out there man, and someone is bound to hear it and take control of their own life. *:)*
Looking for people who cannot be content with "NOT KNOWING".
We will make up something for you to believe and ask for cash in return.
It's funny how some people weave marvelous stories with their imagination and call it truth.
Great video, Telltale! I was wondering, do you know of any books like this for Catholicism? Former catholic here, and this book sounds like a really convenient tool to point to when giving reasons why you don’t believe. Thanks for any ideas!😊
Dear Awkwark: from God: You son are in a hole looking to fall in another one! STOP & TURN! I had a friend of mine write you, don't ignore him.
of all cults, Mormons have the most hilarious belifs by far
Personally I think the Scientology cult still tops the list, with Mormons running a close second.
those would be funny if they werent kinda acctually a bit scary
Have you looked into Scientology ?
Hey Telltale I recently met this Mormon girl who just transferred to my school, she seems really nice and I like her, but I don’t really know what to do? How do I help her without making her shut down? How do I get her out of the cult? How do I remain neutral when she’s telling me her beliefs? I don’t want to condone it but I also don’t want to hurt her and push her even further in...help
I was raised Mormon and my whole life growing up the majority of it never made sense to me. It always seemed......wrong.
Sure, the people where nice, to your face, and I had allot of friends. Now looking back, they were my friends cause they were the kids i went to church with.
Now that I know all this info it's all clear why it never really sank in and I just stopped going to church.
honestly really glad I found your channel its helped me out a lot with dealing with my super mormon parents
rip man
At 8:45 ish, I couldn’t contain myself and said out loud “that’s literal bullshit!” Like, I know it’s all fake, I have for a while, I’m just so annoyed at myself for believing it at one point lmaooo I was so naive oh my GOD
You said "I really think the reason mormonism has so many members is because they don't know about the CES letter". I wish that were true. Unfortunately, no matter how logical or reasonable, true believing Mormons will dismiss it as "anti-mormon". The mental gymnastics needed to rationalize their belief when presented with evidence of its falsehood is downright Olympic quality! Jeremy Runnels is an amazing scholar and writer and because of his dedication to the truth he has opened the eyes and minds of a lot of people who would have otherwise been trapped in the lds cult. Even so, I wish it was more. Thanks for this video! You did a great job bringing up some very valid concerns.
What is your response to the reality of Paul Gregersen debunking the arrogant Egyptologists?
Joseph Smith also used treasure being cursed and unable to be found as an event in the Book of Mormon. The guy reused a lot didn't he
The one that seals it most is the books very existence.
If they really had nothing to hide, wouldn’t they not only let us know about it but go over it with us?
But instead it’s swept under the rug, classified as anti and it would be frowned upon to even mention, much less read.
(Source: Current(but really former) member)
That’s just from the book though, in all honesty, it’s just the sheer volume of facts that I learned; I could not sit through a single talk of theirs, either from another member or from leadership that I wouldn’t think a couple times of something that discredits what they’re saying.
3:20 "There was NO WAY to disprove that."
What about linguistics? An anthropologist studying Native American culture and language could easily prove that there are no cultural or linguistic ties between the cultures and languages of Native people and Semitic people from the middle east. In my opinion, anthropology disproved the Book of Mormon even before DNA testing existed. Most Native American languages have long consonants which are absent from other languages and therefore unique to the Americas. We would have at least found a linguistic tie with Semitic languages if Native Americans really were the descendants of Israelites.
Great video. I stopped believing in the lie of Mormonism almost overnight after finding out about the book of Abraham. The CES letter was instrumental in helping me see the truth, but the issues in the CES letter are only the beginning. Their problems go way deeper. The CES letter issues are just the entrance to the rabbit hole.
The book of Abraham claims that God was once a man, achieved his status by following Mormon rules, and then we can too. And they say that this in no way contradicts the Bible. It's laughably silly. People are in this church because of social connections. It never made much sense.
But I wonder how many of them really know this but stay just because they love the lifestyle, the Southpark cartoon hinted at this possibility!
Actually his wife sold the papyrus after he died. He didn’t donate them.
True. He left her penniless upon his death and the Church had no love for her after Joseph died because she would not back Brigham as Joey's successor. So she sold the mummies because they were legally Joseph's (he mingled personal and Church property).
The first time I read the Book of Mormon, I was immediately struck by the fact that it was written in the King James style of English. Why use a dialect that was two hundred years old?
I used to be a young earth creationist apologist and I noticed a flawed argument in your video. You said that Cain couldn't have married his sister because that would be inbreeding but the reason you can't do that is because you don't want to have matching mutations in the offspring's DNA. But Adam and Eve wouldn't have had mutations because they were the originals.
Btw I'm an atheist. The reason why my pfp is a star of David is because my RUclips channel is about how to speak Hebrew and I plan on changing it soon.
Thanks for doing what you do!!
No shade, LOVE your videos! But please check your pronunciation of "papyrus"... the "y" is a long I. Keep up the great work. ATB : )
None of those points really did much for me on my journey out of Mormonism. I was a master of mental gymnastics when it came to the church. What pushed me over the edge to make me receptive to these types of points was the shattering of trust when I did my reading about tithing and its history. Then when I read the Wikipedia article on the 30+ times Joseph Smith was arrested (about 6 months later), I decided I couldn't take any more. Mind you there were a lot of other issues along the way, primarily LGBT issues when I truly realized which side I was on when a coworker came out to me as gay.
Used to be Mormon, taught seminary. Literally any one of these points is enough to disprove the truth claims of the church. The moment when I realized this ruined my world but started my life. Rejecting the lies I was fed by this church was the best thing I ever did.
@Feiner Fug Thanks it was that moment when I realized how hypocritical the compartmentalizing was. I was getting ready to apply to medical school and had a very skeptical mindset on everything except my religion. A year and a half later and I've researched more religions than I can count and I'm getting a null set tatto in a week. Atheism is the only thing that makes sense to me.
What is your response to the reality of Paul Gregersen debunking the arrogant Egyptologists?
Telltale, I think, yes the KJV errors was a giveaway, even the fact that he used the language to sound more biblical. But the claim of the Native Americans being lost Israelites, all the chariots and swords from the millions of fighters he claimed going to be easily found. Along with his obvious scams, I don't know why anyone believed him. Well, I guess that could be because life was hard, news was slow! Great video, research, as always! 💕💓✌
I take it you've never heard the word "papyrus" spoken before?
Puh-PIE-russ
To Mae to to mah to
pneumatic mnemonic
@@Indi_Waffle_Girl not a good comparison. Both those pronunciations are acceptable for tomato, but papyrus is only accepted as puh-PIE-rus. PAH-puh-rus isn't an accepted pronunciation.
@@ocsurfer23 yes there are certain pronunciations that are absolute, but depending on the accent, people pronounce things different. My point was that it's a really silly thing to nitpick lol
The whole list was pretty cool thank you
I feel like at the very least the book of Abraham has to be more damning than the translations. The same logic is used, the only difference is that we have access to the funeral scrolls, which apparently were unnecessary in translating the book of abraham
Is anyone seeing adds for pureflix (a Christian netflix) on every atheist channel on youtube lol.
💙 *quality content* 💙
Which was the most damning? Is there an "all of the above" option?
Yo Telltale..is your podcast available via Spotify? Love your work man, keep it up!
**Kevin is triggered**
“Let’s get into it!”
That is literally my favorite thing to hear on RUclips. And I mean that for realsies and not pretendsies!
The Book of Abraham did it for me. Knowing the church leaders knew about it and then kept teaching it for decades was just too much to swallow. After that, everything else starting unraveling in my mind.
Just curious, and I’ve just started watching your vids, but I was wondering what’s up with the geocentric model of the universe that Is drawn in a couple videos I’ve seen?
So you’re Joseph Smith and Dora the Explorer is God? Hell yeahs!
* chants in a deep voice * doo doo doo doo dooo Dora
I for one welcomes the Book of Dora. It would be as untrue as all other bible books but it does sound good.
Swiper is Satan. Swiper no swiping, Swiper no swiping...Oooh maaaan!
Dora - u - acbaro !!
great video but since it drove me crazy its pa·py·rus
Also I send my first comment a little too hastily, your autogenerated closed captions say at 7:54 "a man named Whore", which I think you might want to fix if RUclips let's you do that. The correct name would be Hor (with a fancy accent over the letter o, but I don't think that matters too much) according to Wikipedia. I don't fault RUclips too much for that mix up, it's just a little funny :)
No way you're that good at drawing! Anyone better at drawing than me is on art-steroids.
comment no.3: Perfecto
I really admire people who can leave their church... I told myself I was done, but I argued with my mom and sister all weekend about me missing mass the past three Sundays and Wednesday bible study for a month. Im going to confession at 6:30 on Wednesday, mass at 7, and bible study at 7:30 to show them that I’m still a committed, good Catholic girl.
This morning, I woke up to a text from one of my church friends inviting me to go to Eucharistic adoration with him. My crush (also a church friend) just texted me and said he wants me to meet one of his friends so that I have a buddy to go to mass with at college in the fall (his friend and I are attending the same university). My other friend continues to lie to himself and say he is straight because of the self-internalized homophobia he developed after he heard the priest at our grade school say same-sex acts were “inherently disordered.” (Direct quote from the Catechism of the Catholic Church!!!). He’s going to college with me, too. I’m hoping he will finally accept himself if he meets people who aren’t conservative Catholics.
When I was walking my dog before bed just now, I almost broke down crying because I feel like a filthy sinner for not going to church for three weeks. The idea of hell has been drummed into my head for as long as I remember. I believe in God, but I’m so sick of feeling miserable and trapped by an institution that quite frankly has too much control over my life. My closest friends are my church friends, and my family is all involved in it. If I stopped being Catholic, I would have no one. I pray and read the Bible because I feel guilty if I don’t. I’m just sick of feeling filthy, guilty, and inadequate all the time. Thankfully, I just graduated high school and will be heading to college in the fall. I’m hoping i can get out then.
There is a big difference between being religious and being spiritual. A religious person will do what they are told regardless of what is right and a spiritual person will do what is right regardless of what they are told. Going to church and reading the Bible have nothing to do with what really matters. Spirituality comes from love. Being a kind, loving person is the exact same thing as being a spiritual person. The mindset and actions are in the same vein. They have the same flow. Spirituality is a very individual thing. What makes sense and works for you might not for other people. And the only thing that makes it wrong is if you negatively affect the life and safety of others and yourself. Other than that it can mean almost anything. And remember, all the different paths up the mountain lead to the same summit.
Most Christians who believe in Adam and Eve say that “there weren’t any birth defects back then, birth defects only happened when got said incest was wrong” *this coming straight from my mother and everyone else in my family* meanwhile I’m over here thinking “how much mental gymnastics do you have to go through to think this way?!”
Thank you for this. My brother nearly married a Mormon girl, and it devastated me to know that he, plus any prospective children they had, would be trapped in a cult like this. My brother was lucky to get out of the engagement, and this video might help other people from getting ensnared into the cult's awful web once they know the truth.
the church isn't a cult, its a community. there is a difference.
I'd really like to see a video on all the LDS rebuttals the CNS letter, and why those rebuttals are flawed.
I wanted to scream at the article I read. It was so arrogant, but offered no actual rebuttals!
@@rebeccagunther4030 was it the fairmormon.org rebuttal? That's the only one I've found that really attempts to respond, and it's certainly arrogant.