The Savar (new unit for Persians!)
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- Let's look at the new Persian replacement for the paladin coming on October 31st with the new Mountain Royals DLC, and how the Savar compares in both melee and against ranged units.
0:15 Stats and hidden bonuses
2:00 vs Paladin
2:58 vs Halberdiers/Pikemen
3:55 vs Camels
4:47 vs Skirmishers
5:30 vs Arbalesters
7:05 vs Town Centers
7:45 vs Castles and Hand Cannons
8:25 Final thoughts
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Patreon: / spiritofthelaw
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Game: Age of Empires II Definitive Edition
Anyone else wish the Teutonic Paladin would be replaced by the Crusader Knight scenario editor unit, even as a purely cosmetic change since they already have their extra armour bonus?
i wish!
And the Frankish Paladin for the Franks !
honestly wish they'd give regional Paladin replacements for every civilisation, the Paladin aesthetic fits almost none of the civs in the game and should honestly be unique to the Franks
Currently the Crusader Knight has the unique ability to not be able to be converted by monks
Habibi knight
Wait, if the new armenian composite bowman has great matchup against rattan archer, which is anti anti archer archers, that mean they are the anti anti anti archer archer archer?
Maybe we should start using "anti for the power of"
So composite bowmen are anti^3 archers
Not sure. The composite bowmen seem to be anti any unit (not siege or building) with high pierce armor. And I'm not sure if it counters the rattan archer because the rattan archer has 1 extra range on top of bonus damage against archers. They just trade fairly well, but definetely not well enough to be value efficient.
Composite Bowman wins vs Chu Ko Nu but actually loses to Arbalest. So that means Arbalest is officially:
anti anti, anti anti-archer archer, archer archer.
@@chingamfong No.
Composite bowmen are anti anti anti-archer archer archers
Arbalesters are anti anti anti anti-archer archer archer archers
Rattan archers are pretty evenly matched with composite bowmen with equal resources, the composite bowman's lower range and lack of thumb ring means they consistently lose firefights versus fully upgraded archers.
If you're expecting Composite Bowmen to hard-counter anything you're gonna be sorely disappointed, they're more of a generalist anti-armour unit to help you take down Paladins and such a bit faster.
what a flawed analysis! Totally overlooked the most salient detail-- looks cool. Got to do better next time Spirit!
Lmao
The Savars look really great too, should help give persians more of a visual identity on the battlefield since war elephants are a more niche unit. I hope more old civs will get a unique upgrade like this to improve that visual identity.
Would be great to see halberdier get replaced by this somewhere since it's used so much.
Dont you think that it would be cool if all civs at least by region have visual indentity, i mean euro civs are basically already done by default, but african and asian villagers and swordsmen and so on...
Spanish tercios! please, for good sake!
@@mihajlohranisavljevic6412feel free to create a skin mod, but please don't force other players to remember 45-50 uniqie skins.
@@daarom3472 It should be optional of cource who wants wants, who doesnt it can be turned off...
I love the design for this unit. Makes the Persians look more geographically correct. Also, hoping they add the Sogdian Cataphracts as a regular unit in the near future. They had a really unique look to them.
Soggy Deez N
I totally agree! Also
- Teutons and Franks should have access to the Knight Crusader in the monasteries, a unit slower and more expensive than a knight, but impossible to convert with a +4 max melee armor bonus if it's with other knights (like Georgian) or with relics (like Lithuanian), which produces gold by hitting opposing units (like keshik) and which takes monastery bonuses (fervor, sanctity).
For Teutons : Knight crusader increases the speed of Teutonic Knights !
- Coumans / Huns / Hungarians should have a review of their paladin
- Byzantins : should have access to Legionnary
What do you think?
Having a Sogdian civ on its own would be amazing
@@EresirThe1st 100% agreed. Could be a tie-in and testing ground for integrating antiquity civs into Age II.
@@paladinrohanI love the ideas of these civs having Crusader Knights! Could possibly be a monastery unit as well. The notion of different European civs having access to different types of crusader knights as well would hit the spot, such as the Teutonic Knights, Templars, Hospitallers, and the Knights of Santiago.
Also, kind of far fetched but a split of the Teutons into the Germans and Austrians is something I wouldn't mind seeing. The Germans could have landsknechts and the Austrians could have doppelsoldners/zweihander.
As for the Cumans, Huns, and Magyars I do agree with them having unique paladins with their own skins. It would make them more distinctive and add to their flavors.
For the legionary, I like the idea of keeping them for the Romans and giving the Byzantines the Varangian Guard. For me, that makes the most sense and contributes well to their separate identities. These are my humble suggestions though. Hope you love some of them! :D
I really hope this opens the door for more regional unit variations.
Unique castles for each civ!
@@hugogaratecallejo9817nah would be way to much work and the most castles look really good.
Uff. I think that just gets really confusing for even slightly more casual players. At some point, I don't want to learn more grammar rules, but start to speak, you know?
@@notthedroidsyourelookingfo4026 bro most of these changes are really simple and easy to learn as the tool tip gives u eevrything u need to know
It must be really gratifying as an AoE dev to see someone really dig into things like this. Looking at how precise the math is I'm sure this was a very deliberate and thought out design choice and not a spaghetti on the wall scenario.
There should be reskins of some paladins, even if it is minimal, such as adding a new symbol under the horse's breastplate since if they have the fleur-de-lys, it takes away the magic like the Huns, Cumans, Spaniards or the Persians, because it seemed that they have French cavalry in non-corresponding regions.
The fleur de lys isn't limited to the french, it was a heraldic device used by plenty of different families. It is true it doesn't aesthetically at all fit the eastern factions, but neither does the paladin aesthetic as a whole really as it looks extremely western/central european.
More broadly, regional units models (like the trade cart) would be appreciated.
Major changes with the style of armours and so on, and more minor ones within the same region on heraldics
wanna know something funny? there is a turn based version of Age of Empires 2 released for the Nintendo DS more than a decade ago that has unique models for units for every culture (Ex: Japanese villagers have their outfits and wield wooden hammers, while european villagers use pitchforks, Arabs as well etc) all units had specific models for each culture, so a Japanese Champion would look nothing like a Frank Champion.
There needs to be regional skins for generic units just like the regional architecture. People complain about readability but we already have it for American monks and it works fine.
@@EresirThe1st The problem is that the more different skins you add, the more load you're putting on your players' memory. It's already a game with a lot to learn and remember (while reacting quickly to things happening all over the place); it doesn't need unnecessary complexity added by cosmetics
That said, I love the idea of more regional skins. But I do think they'd need to add an option to disable them
4 Savars being able to beat a TC is just insane, and making them shine in this anti archery/pierce department is a great idea
In short, one more melee armor helps with generic battles. However, lower HP means they’re more vulnerable to counters.
Yes but the 5+ gold Will make up for it easy together with the new heal.
Saracens got the unique monk healing tech@@Anttown123
The next step should have Teutons or Franks having the appearance of the campaign's Crusader Knights. Just a visual change would be enough, but wouldn't surprise me if they make it a different unit
Isnt there a mod for this?
Yes, Teutons should have Crusader knights as UU paladins and Frank with the Frankish paladin
The paladins literally bear the fleur-de-lis symbols, Franks paladins are not meant to be changed
They have to keep the playerbase growth in mind as well; if the same unit has 7 or 8 different skins it can be confusing for new players. At least I see it that way. But since they've been testing it with castles, perhaps they're thinking of trying it.
Crusaders should be an european regional unit if you ask me
So this unit powercreeps tarkans, keshik, generic FU paladin (which is already very rare and only for 4 cav civs) while being cheaper and faster to get on the field with a dark age eco bonus that was already removed for being too strong. gj devs
This is slowly becoming like AoE3, a lot of unit diversity which makes each civ unique. Can't wait for AoE 2 in 2050 where every civ will be completely different.
you mean aoe4
@@UltraProchy no, i don't. To me, AoE 4 does not exist, it's a fucking absolute disappointment. I was expecting AoE 4 to be more like Empire Nations, but they made a game that looks like a mobile game and plays like an eSport RTS instead.
That would suck. And that's also like AoE4. Each civ HAS to be unique. No more interchangeability because each civ has a completely different playstyle. The great thing about AoE2 is that players can switch from civ to civ w/ very few adjustments. Which is also isn't that far off from real life. Real civs weren't really all that different- wars were won on player skill, not civ advantage.
@@the_SolLoser That's exactly why i don't play AoE 2 normal matches and i only play CBA, because the civs are too similar. I want to learn every civ from the ground up, that is why AoE 3 is so sooo much more fun. Also the deck system makes it even better because you can create so many different playstyles for each civ and that keeps on forcing you to improvise. One of the best RTS game ever made.
@@coaiemandushman1079 yeah... that's too much. That's more of a RPG than a RTS in my eyes. But, I'm glad you're enjoying yourself. Personally, if each AoE game was too similar, then there's no point in having more than one. Like how you want each civ to have its own distinct feel, playstyle, and identity, let's keep the different games like that; that way everyone can get their "this is how it's supposed to be" feeling and not ruin other people's good times.
Hopefully with this adition, more civs gets to have their main generic unit replaced by a "unique" unit such as Frankish Paladins and Crusader Knights for Teutons, mostly for cosmetic reasons. This is the first step on a future update with regional skins that replaces those generic european units for americans, asians and africans/arabs equivalents.
The thing is they could already do that, but the issue is readability. With buildings they're big enough to more or less tell apart at a glance even if you've never seen the architecture style before, but you absolutely, positively need to be able to know whether that's a pikeman or an eagle warrior about to fight your knights in a second.
@@sigilbreaker2628 Easy, make it a togglable option in the settings, like small trees
@@sigilbreaker2628 for readability, the overall colour scheme should remain the same.
The pikeman has a mostly white surcoat with details in the player colour. Keep it the same for all groups. So a mostly white unit carrying a big stick = pikeman.
The readability thing is a non issue. We already have American monks and they’re easy to read because they have the same silhouette and animations. Having East Asian glaives instead of halberds or middle eastern scimitars over straight swords would also be fine. A guy on reddit already made some great regional skin models.
@@EresirThe1st the monk is unique, but think about the scout and knight lines, both on horseback with swords and similar animations. You need to keep them recognisable at first glance despite the different styles, you don't want to mistake a light cav for a knight lest you learn the hard way.
Savar will be OP, calling it now it will be slightly nerfed in a couple patches. Probably higher upgrade cost or something of that sort.
Fun fact: The Savar were so badass that the Romans adopted aspects of their arms and techniques.
6:00 The bird recognizes the mess and so: "Nope, im out."
@spiritofthelaw, i have a great suggestion for a video for you. I always wondered at what point you actually get more Ressources as a persian player. Because on the one hand you keep pulling ahead on villagers on the other hand it gets more and more expensive to keep your TC working when you reach the next age.
So when is the point were i actually have more Ressources than my opponent to spent on military?
Love the idea of alternative fourth age upgrades, honestly kind of the best way to do unique units
01:46 No one expects the samurai bonus damage.
Savar seems bit OP tbh
I'm a little disappointed the Paladin and Savar weren't compared to each other in regards to their performance against the genoese xbow. However crunching the numbers the genoese xbow does 17 atk (elite and FU) vs cavalry, same as the hand cannoneer, so I guess it was covered indirectly. Also it'd have been interesting if anything changed with Gurjara camels against Savar given the extra bonus dmg.
I like that the devs are gradually adding these semi-unique units to older civs.
I really like them implementing visually unique units as replacements for generic ones. It looks very nice for the civ as a whole.
The Savar is interesting to me because it's like Age of Empires 2 is taking notes from other modern types of RTS. In age of empires time it made sense to have factions that were mostly the same save for stat diffrences to save on disc space but as time goes on RTS general expect factions that are more diffrent from each other like Zerg Vs terrian and slowly with more unique units and regional units, AOE2 seems to be moving that way
I think the most important advantage of Savars over Paladins is that they look waay cooler.
Tbh I would like other Eastern civilisations, like Cumans or Huns, to have their paladins replaced with Savars.
Persian gonna be mega busted on release.
Savar need a - 1 meele armor nerf so they retain their antu archer uniqueness and cheaper upgrade but clearly worse in meele.
This unit. I don't like it. Power creep as always
Bruh, "decentivize using these purple-line units against the Japanese" ... Samurai are so goddamn rare they might as well be mythical creatures. If anything, they should see more play along with every other unique melee foot unit.
How does this anti-archer cavalry match up against an anti-cavalry archer like the genoese crossbowmen. And how does this this unit compare to the Tarkan?
So Savar seems better than Paladin at things the Paladin is good at and a little worse at things the Paladin is not so good at.
Hauberk IS a Joke now with savar😂😂😂
That hidden +3 vs archers and the faster attack rate make this huge.
Paladins mostly comes into play vs archer civs anyways. In knight battles civs tend to go halbs and/or heavy camels anyway.
This is just a huge upgrade. Archer civs are basically on a timer when using heavy archer play vs Persian knights now because these savar counter archers so badly. Cheaper and faster upgrade, killing arbs in 3.6s vs 5.7s and 28% more hits than a frank paladin plus 5 gold gold for each unit you kill.. that is just huge and this probably pushes Persians to #1 for pocket civ in teamgames.
All these people in the comments wanting cosmetic changes for the sake of having a cosmetic change... THAT'S WHAT MODS ARE FOR!
I certainly wouldn't pay money for a meaningless cosmetic change. People don't seem to understand that the Savar is NOT A COSMETIC.
Call of Duty has ruined y'all.
Savar+crossbow could be a really good combo.
The best thing about new content for AOE is that is means more SOTL vids. Great work!
As a Persian speaker I have to say 'savar' just means rider or cavalry. I would have picked a different name. Still happy with it.
دقیقا
یچیزی مثل immortal میذاشتن رفرنس بهتری بود
don't worry about it too much, the devs do that more often than you'd think, iirc krepost also literally means "fortress" and there are probably other cases of unit/building names just being direct translations in the game if you were to look deep enough into it
Oh, nice info here mate. I was thinking in Turkish we have the word 'savar' and it means 'repellent' and that could be another loan word from Farsi to Turkish. I am enlightened, thanks!
in Italian and Sicilian Donjon (Dongione) literally means "big/fat tower"
That's actually the point. They're just using words/terms that civ would've used. I actually think it's a perfect fit. Same with Donjon and Krepost.
I wish there were a lot more unique skins for units. Some of them are so... Weird....
Don’t you love Aztec/Mayan infantry wearing medieval European armor?
one of the best looking unit atm.
I like the Savar, and I like how against Wootz Steel, it is gonna feel that missing 15HP.
+5 against Archers!
Archers might as well just crawl back in the womb of their mothers.
I hope the vikings get a rework some day, neither their unique units nor their civ name makes any sense, at least rename them to Norse ffs, viking is an occupation not a culture.
One of my favourite things to hear is "Hey guys, Spirit of the Law here"
Gengis Khan campaign is going to be a little bit harder. And Bujara will be easier.
1:30 Spirit of the Law just checking in if he can gain a crucial advantage as Japanese.
I do think it’d be great if Samurai got the bonus vs Imp Camel, Imp Skirm, Winged Hussar, and Savar. It would actually give Japanese more of an opportunity to make Samurai in a practical situation!
It wouldn’t really make sense.
Persians is gonna be a top-tier pocket civ in team games with these new and returning bonuses, calling it now.
I love this DLC, the Savar is sensational!! It is designed extremely well. Thank you devs, I am stoked to play the DLC and look forward to more such beautiful units being added to the game. Units like the Savar and civ accurate unit skins give so much character to each civ.
As cool as it would be to change the aesthetics of every unit to be regional, i totally get why it probably wont happen. As far as clarity of gameplay is concerned - having units with identical stats with different appearances is downright confusing to new players and experienced players alike - especially in the heat of battle! Misinterpreting the unit you're fighting can lead to committing the wrong troops which can lose you a battle, so I doubt regional paladin aesthetic changes will happen sadly :(
Also we have to consider how badass they look
Absolutely OP against archer Civs that are already at the bottom 5 on aeostats. As Cav gets more powerful, the monk meta will continue…
Love to see Fan favorite and classic Persian back in the game. However, the devs really overreacted on the anti Archer Identity along with trash bows.
meanwhile Ethiopians being top 10 like forever :D
8 pierce armor is just insane for a paladin like unit. I already thought the Sicilian cav was pretty good
So after 20 years mangudai finally have a counter
A step in the right direction. The devs should reskin most civ units which are not Western European to achieve more unique look for each.
I'm a Persian main and I love the new update.
Armor is best against lower damaging attacks of course and i really like the look of the Savar and the idea of civs with own versions of units
(for example taking 4 damage instead of 5 per hit is a lot better than taking 14 instead of 15 damage)
Hi SotL, do you use the "Enhanced Graphics Pack" available on Steam? The description states that it targets 4K/UHD resolution, which I use. I made a simple test and it seems great, maybe even for 1440p and 1080p, but not sure abou performance drop, what do you think? Are you gonna make a video?
something i only realised till recently is that you are the Vsauce of age of empires
I think vs Genoese Crossbowman is a special scenario that you didn't consider, it counters cavalry while being countered by Savar, I am really interesting in how much would Savar do better here if at all.
FE Savars die in 17 arrows and they need 3 hits to kill FEGC. However since GC has 1 less range than typical archers the results wouldn't be that overwhelming.
Are there other unique units like Imp Camels or Imp skirms that dont take bonus dmg from samurai?
Together with the op aoe heal persians Will be unstopable they Will be nerfed no doubt.
The gold and value Will be insane you cant keep up with it.
8:18 Mamelukes no longer have the archer armor.
Imagine a Chu Ko Nu in its place. ;)
Persian will be OP. No more Douch.
Unless missed, how do they perform against genoise crossbow?
Updated Persian tech tree review?
Soo they are OP...
Personally I think the cheaper upgrade cost is the most impacting change, easily justifying any disadvantages in 95% of cases
Burmese need a buff. +5 against archers is practically free (if you're gonna upgrade your knights anyway) for Persians now. It is a terribly niche upgrade, and this made me realize that with the recent reworks and new additions, the game almost seems like its getting a power creep. That said, the balance of all the civs has mostly stayed intact, and what has been broken was quickly hotfixed. The devs really work hard on this game, and the new additions have been fun to play with. They add variety to how you play the game beyond the rock paper scissors of the generic units and resource functions. Anyways, the Burnese could really use one of these touch-ups. I love infantry, and i love elephants. The arumbai is a really cool unit, but just feels so lackluster and underpowered.
But the Burmese UT affects more units than just knight line so I think it's fine
@@windwindy5356 its expensive imp tech. game is usually already resolved when u got timeto think about it... Would be nice if they made it cheaper or just changed it.
@@krystofcisar469 that was my thinking. It's not a terrible upgrade, and on hussars it crushes, but it comes too late to be useful most of the time. Giving Burmese cav a lower flat bonus against archers and a new tech wouldn't be bad, but as far as civ bonuses are concerned, it's not the most creative or anything unique to the Burmese. As far as their archer problems are concerned, I don't see why they don't get the second archer armor upgrade. The arumbai underperform as is, so I don't think it would make them too powerful.
Tarkan suddenly have a new competitor in vs archer and defensive building department.
So basically they get 33% better at killing and at resisting enemy archer units. That's nothing to shake a stick at. An interesting question would be, how many archers does it take to take down a group of 10 generic paladins versus 10 Savars? My hunch is that you would need at least 50% more archers and possibly a great deal more than that. Micro might negate that advantage, but if you can monopolize your opponent's attention with a couple groups of savars, I call that a win.
I love how your graphics look!!! what mod do you use? I set the AOE to its maximum but it doesn't give me those graphics.
By the way, very good video, I'm going to try it, it looks like it's a very interesting unit as well as elegant.
Unit looks awesome
@Spirit of the Law, Hera has been saying in his videos that war elephants get the free Muhoots Speed bonus with Elite upgrade? Is that true or not? Or do they get the speed bonus right out of the gate with castle age version?
No, it's behind the elite upgrade. Researching unlocks speed bonus, it's like how Berserkgang got rolled in Elite Breserker.
It seems like the base speed of both the base War Elephant and the Elite Version has been changed from 0.6 to 0.8, so yes you get it right out of the gate in Castle Age. And Husbandry actually makes them a bit faster now, since their base speed is higher. It used to be 0.66 without Mahouts and 0.85 with Mahouts, now you get 0.88 with Husbandry which is base Battle Elephant speed. Still not amazing, but you might actually get somewhere and save 600 Resources.
The mongols and huns should have a unique knight line and light cavalry line.
The whole muslim world too.
Huns should have an architecture change too.
But teutons and franks are easy for the devs to change next.
Fingers crossed 🤞
you forgot to mention the BIGGEST BONUS BY FAR!!! they look really cool
Please do a video what we gain for taking a sheep, bushes, dear, boar. We know what is faster but what do we won? For example losing a sheep do we loose 20 of food? Because during the time you take the food on the sheep with farming you would have earn 80 of food (and taking in consideration the wood cost)
I've waited for this. It's interesting to know the differences between Savars and Paladins in practice. I think they'll be very strong with their greater emphasis on Persian's strengths, and even when against their counters, they still have things like camels, halbs, or trash bows to cover their weaknesses.
At 3:20 the generic Paladin just barely gets one more hit in than the Frank Paladin. I'm assuming it was a fluke, but is there potentially something hidden going on there?
Really like this design philosophy; it actually feels very AoE 4 to me.
I wish they just remove the kinght-line from the mongols entirely and just give them the last archer and cavalry armor upgrade instead. more fitting imo.
I forse the Savar getting a slight nerf. Propably to their upgrade cost or attack speed.
But I like the new unit :D
Guys its time to tell the devs that we need reskins of all units by region.European can stay as it is now by default , then African civs , Asia and so on make it happen devs please...
I have no intention to buy/play this game. I have almost no history with it. But I like your videos so I keep watching the content.
Does de extra pierce armour of the Savar hold up against Genoese Crossbowmen?
Teutons should have crusader knights as their second unique unit in their castle and i wonder how powerful savar against Genoese crossbowman
No, it should be in the stables. Castles don't have a second slow for unique units.
Edit: Now that I think about it, isn't the crusader knight more like a Boyar? 😅
@@Hardcore_Remixer not really, they have 4 more attack, are more resistant to arrows and are completely immune to monk conversion.
@@Hardcore_Remixer yeah maybe replacement for knight line and crusader knights very similar like boyar
@@TheBikeOnTheMoon since when are they completely immune to conversion? i converted teutonic knights all the time in the campaign.
@@Daxter250 crusader knights not Teutonic knights
In my opinion, all "generic" units, should have a civ specific model or atleast some sort of distinction.
Does anybody know if the extra bonus damage of savars counts against horse archers too?
Persian gotted aswarans. But arabians and other non-europeanian nations have europeanian knights in their cavalry tier yet (and persian has too lol)
Would Saracens run Pikemen tho?
Persian with both Savar and Trash Xbow... what is the drawback?
8:26 Why is there a Mameluke there? Wasn’t their archer armour class removed about a year ago?
8:16 I don't get what is the Mameluke doing there 11 as far as I know, it doen't count as an archer unit
Gotta wonder how much the devs look under the hood when making these units and giving them armor vs hp etc. How in depth is their analysis?
They probably have tons of simulations running with pre defined groups of units.
I wonder if the reason there are no asian civs with the paladin is because it would look weird with the fleur de lis lol.
Don't like hard counters.. İn this case Savar vs archer is one of the hardest in the game
As an Indian, I would like to say: 'Savar' means one who is riding
I have a crazy idea. How about we take the +5 gold per kill trait and move it to the Saracens? This feels more appropriate
maybe make it so their camels generate +5 gold instead of all cavalry
@@jaishkhan7442 I dig that. camels can be prohibitively expensive
How does it feel more appropriate?
Still waiting for them to mod the game to where the attack animation matches the damage output
8:23 Mameluke was shown with the other archer units, that was an oversight right?
I assume they still get recked by Genoese Crossbows?
What is this game called?
Age of empires 2
for the love of god, i was hopeing the would give the persian elephants a rider.