Revel Bikes CBF Suspension - EXPLAINED!
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- Revel bikes launched earlier this year with one goal in mind, build the absolute best full-suspension mountain bikes on the planet. To do so, they collaborated with Chris Canfield and licensed the CBF suspension platform for use on the Revel Rail and Rascal. So what exactly is the Canfield Balanced Suspension and what makes it so damn good? A few months ago, Jeff and Adam took a trip to Colorado to visit the Revel bike headquarters and find out for themselves. While there, they had the chance to hit the trails with lead engineer Jeremiah Starkey and find out in person, what makes CBF so special. They also sat down with the man himself, Chris Canfield, to discuss CBF development, licensing, and more. This is a long one so be sure to grab a beer, sit back, and relax.
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What are your thoughts on CBF suspension? Also, be sure to hit that subscribe button!
I have a Rascal and absolutely love it! I rode a Canfield in the past and it was epic. 🤘
New VPP is good CBF is better again
Looks like a bad ass bike, definitely going to check out the different models. Might need to buy a new bike lol
They have their ups and downs like any other bike. In my opinion they could be among the best of the best with a few modifications.
My second time demoing Revel, the bike had a creaking noise coming from the rear triangle bearings (not a bottom bracket issue). After adjustments the noise did not stop.
This type of suspensions tends to use a lot of the shock travel for small drops, although it felt great and never felt like it bottom out but the red rubber indicates it did.
Don’t know if it was the seat tube angle, maybe but something about the geometry feels more like old school relaxed geometry.
On the positive side the bike accelerates really quick. No energy feels wasted. It kind of remind me of other good suspension platforms like dw-link for some reason.
Definitely will love to see this company grow and build a bike than can compete specifically against the Ibis Ripmo.
Take a look at Cotic bikes. Not cbf sus but definitely have their niche. Reynolds 853 custom steel tubing!
Lance Canfield once came through small town New Mexico and jumped in on one of our group rides. He never mentioned once (in a good way) who he was, just road and had fun with us. I started asking questions about his bike and he answered them all honestly an with good detail. Only afterwards did I ask the right question and he said..."no its not just my bike... it's my bike company." Cool dude.
Lance, if you read this, come ride in Gallup again anytime.
As a total bike geek and aspiring mechanical engineer, this is one of the best mountain bike related videos I've ever watched. Thanks to all the people at WWC and Revel for being so awesome! Shred on!
Glad you enjoyed!
Your comment is literally me, mechanical engineering student and I'm planning to make a frame out of 3D printed titanium.
Yes yes yes. More of these types of videos please. If possible. :)
@@normanmommu1 any update on this endeavor?
@@jadoningalls1205 3D printing titanium is way too expensive and 6Al-4V titanium alloy tubing is impossible to aqcuire (literally it is not made), so I am going 17-4 PH stainless steel and Reynolds 953 stainless steel tubing route, still work in progress, planning to have it done by spring 2022
This was the most informative video on suspension and its characteristics that I have ever watched. Nice work.
CBF is dark sorcery. My Canfield Balance blows me away every time I ride it. The hype is real.
Please, for the love of God, can you make a video talking in depth about some of the popular suspension types and what differences they suit for riders etc.? I know you guys don't really do videos on stuff you don't sell, but you could do a video on generic design versus Maestro or FSR still. Please, because no other mountain bike channel will do it and the Andre guy on RUclips isn't as clear as you guys could be
You cannot expect a bike dealer to make objective technical videos. Of course they will be biased towards what they sell. And everyone sells "just the best". I find Andrextr's videos really good. Of course sometimes you need to do some side research to fully understand, but I think this is the only way to protect yourself against misleading marketing claims.
Talking in depth about suspension? Actually getting into the nerdy stuff? Fuck that! All you need to know is that its great at everything and here’s some techy sounding mumbo jumbo that sounds like it checks out.
Yeah it would be nice if “nerdy” was more than a buzzword
@@dit4963 they already sell multiple bikes with different suspension designs. Pivot, Evil, Devinci, and Mondraker all have different designs. I think only Pivot and Transition are the same DW style. So they could do it even if they stuck to their own brands.
@@conman1395 Transition use a 4 bar Horst Link (FSR) design.
As much fun as that would be, there is a lot of data and facts we need and we find that AndreXtr and a few others really offer some of the best info. :)
Y'all better come back soon and ride some more!
any demos in Europe? Italy maybe?
You can count on it!
One of the best recent videos on MTB I've seen. Chris and Jeremiah explain this info with stoke. Awesome. Very cool bikes.
Thank you!
I recently got to ride a Revel Rail out in Carbondale, CO, and can confirm that they have achieved something really incredible with this bike. The suspension is super active without any loss of efficiency, especially on rough climbs. This active suspension also helps the bike maintain control through high-speed braking bumps and repetitive chunky hits. The bike is very lively and easy to extract good return out of; translation, it is very easy to bunny hop with flat pedals and easy to get good acceleration out of banked turns. Long story short, I bought one.
What is your two year review of the bike?
@@mikelonna1 The Revel is still holding up great after 2+ years. Everything previously said still remains true, although my suspension setting are completely different from when I made that initial comment. I ride more bike park now, but still drop in for an occasional casual XC race on the same bike. The weight of the bigger bike isn’t ideal for that scenario, but the pedaling efficiency makes up for it. The durability of the Rail is very high, on par with a big brand like Santa Cruz. Paint and bearing quality is top notch. I would still highly recommend Revel bikes. My next bike will probably be a Revel Rascal.
This was very interesting. Would love to see more content like this. Thank you.
Such a well done video gentelemen. Super useful!! I think the design is amazing and love the feeling of the platform on my Revel Rascal :)
Great video! Loved the detailed answers from each of those guys.
As a person who spends way to much time analysing suspension. I can say it looks great however I think they glossed over a few things. like the fact you would always have to use the same chain ring size and that the bike has a ridiculous amount of pedal kick back ( 4:08 ) which makes me worried. However I still love it as its pushing the industry forward and its so great to see a new company that actually cares about there suspension.
The chainring size is a good point. We designed the bikes around a 34t chainring but find that riding a 32t, 34t or 36t is undistinguishable. As far as the pedal kickback is concerned, it's significantly less than most bikes on the market. With a 32t/42t combo, a gear you shouldn't be bottoming out in, the kickback is about 21 deg at bottom out. Drop that to a closer to normal 32t/28t and the kickback drops down to
@@jeremiahstarkey6487 Thanks for the reply. It's interesting that the chain ring doesn't have much effect, I can't wait to load it up in linkage and see how much work went into this.
That was a fascinating interview. Really cool explanations, really cool.
Wow this if friggin amazing hats off to Revel amazing Job you guys! That CBF suspension is a game changer I believe I hope one day I can try one out it looks amazing this could be a game changer for a bigger guy too!
not usually into nerdy bike details..but i have the Rail so i am even more pumped watching this! thanks! 🤟😁
What are your thoughts on the bike?!
@@Windband1 it's stable and fast going down. it's not your pedal all day bike, but it sure does pedal well (including climbs)..love it so far.
Best bike I’ve owned! The Revel Rail with an EXT Storia coil is the perfect bike. Climbs ridiculous and descends like a beast. Nice geo numbers too 🤟
Founders club. :-)
I just bought 2 of these bikes for me and my wife. This video helped in my decision making process big time. It’s going to be a few months before I get them but I’m sure it will be well worth the wait.
Ive got a Rail in Tang now and it is an absolute weapon up and down. Climbs, decends, jumps all super confident
A great freaking video, good job. I only wish I had seen this before I purchased a new bike.
Really appreciate the in depth geek fest, well done and a really interesting approach to a suspension design.
Thanks! Glad you liked it 👊
Brilliant breakdown.. Thanks guy's 😎😎
This was so ridiculously well done! Amazing insight! Thank you all! Can't wait to test one of these up against my Megatower! Really interested to see how these bikes feel!
Bike Somm I’ve had the new nomad and bought the rail when they first came out and I’d say the rail is better mate. Pedals a little better, amazing climbing traction and decending feels very similar, doesn’t ramp up quite as hard as VPP but still fine with a coil.
Aiden Baker nice input! Thanks! I’ll have to wait to see for myself 😎 If it blows me away, then I want to record and capture those first ride impressions!
Just ordered my Revel Ranger after all the good stuff i heard about the CBF, including this video. I hope she's as good as the reviews say!
Happy to hear Canfield will be back this 2020. Can't wait to get a new rig from them!
Rascal is sooooooo fun to ride. Love it.
so much good information; like taking a suspension kinematics class ! nice work WWC and Revel
This is all making incredibly good sense to me. Sign me up
Holy cow. I just learned so much about mountain bike suspension! Also, gotta go check out Revel and see what I think about one for my next bike!
Incredible video. I'll be looking into a Revel, for sure
Great Video! I cannot wait to get one of those Rascals to shred the local trails with over the winter. :)
You are missing out Zack! Get to it!
Totally needing out on this. Love my Rascal.
I’m getting a Revel bike after watching this video, switching all my components from my Evil Insurgent to a Revel Rail
Hell ya man!
@@jaroslawnowakowski9769 Please explain what issues you have with your bike. Otherwise your comment just looks like trolling or something. Just sayin
So rare to get this geekery. Thanks!
damn thats alot of time and commitment to get a design up and running
That's what it takes to make something amazing
Jeff I’m curious how’s that feel on the climbs with the fact it doesn’t have quite a steep of a seat post as some of the more modern Geos go
I have a 2017 Yeti Sb5.5 which I love, but after researching the Revel Rascal and watching this video, I'm definitely interested in trying this bike and maybe making the switch. Great in-depth review. Thanks
🤘
I did some graphic design work for Lance and Chris back in the day, nice guys. I hope that they both have sustained success in the bicycle industry. Good to see Chris branching out!! What's Lance up to??
canfieldbikes.com/blogs/news/a-letter-from-lance-canfield-bikes-past-present-and-future
@@JenkinsB Thanks for that, great letter from Lance!!
I talked to a guy on the trail today on a Rascal and he said he saw a guy test riding a Revel "Rival" back in Colorado who said it's almost ready for release.
29" 160mm rear, 170-180 front. Said the guy almost out-climbed him! Supposed to "Rival" the best climbing 29" as well as the best downhill 29". I can't wait!
Next summer
The CBF suspension geek-out gave me a chub
We are all right there with you haha...
I hope that new model is an xc weapon. 29", 100mm rear with a 120 fork to take on the SB100 and Blur TR.
I want one!
Fucking awesome video!! Seriously!! Genuinely considering Revel for my next bike... hopefully I can get one shipped to South Africa though
Now if they could make a mullet version with a 64° HA, I'd buy it right away. This bike definitely has the kinematics I've been looking for, just needs a slight geo tweak. 🤞 Fingers crossed for next year's model.
At 11:30 brilliance! Bruce Lee said something like... you should feel your center of balance just slightly forward so you are chasing it.
Hope they will release soon around 140-150mm 29er platform, will be great
Love the old school Batman transition!
With the extra travel on the rail being on 27.5 wheels I’m wondering if it is faster downhill or not as quiet as the rascal
Interesting, clearly it’s not ‘new’ as such but a derivation of the virtual Pivot point (VPP) system, as used by other manufacturers (such as Giant with the Maestro). However what they have done which appears to be different (I haven’t yet found one similar) is created a system where the lower pivot only travels through a small arc and so the virtual pivot point doesn’t move (in some ways replicating a single pivot) and holding it where the chain joins the chainring (well exactly for one chainring size and not far off for slightly different sizes) to remove any pedal kickback.
Great video. Thank you.
Ok, so I had decided on a new Commencal Meta AM, but then the new RM Slayer came out and everyone went crazy so I decided on that one instead, and Norco released its new and updated Sight and I thought that maybe that one would be my best choice and now this! Where is it going to end? 😂
Villi Mag The good news is you’re not likely to find anything better than CBF at this point! Though the Slayer is a sick sick bike.
@@peglor true
That trip to Colorado wasn’t only for the bike scene though, wasn’t it? 🍁 if you know what I mean
Awesome videos
4:19 wouldn't the wheel hit the dropper battery at bottom out if the seat was lowered all the way?
It does
How come you are not sweating from riding uphill? Good cameraman?
Really impressive the CBF thing :) I'm riding Yeti SB150 but I always looking better suspension bike might be is the one Revel. I would try but I live in Hungary far to headquarter of REvel :(
Jeremiah Starkey, the Rascal is designed around a 140 fork with 51 offset. If bumping to a 150, which offset is preferable?
Cotic bikes. We live in Grand junction and they are great. They are steel frame bikes made by a guy who used to engineer steel rail cars. Check them out.
Would be good info to see what types of rear shocks work best with cbf
Vpp/Horst link/dw link/single pivot/infinity switch.
Blah blah blah. They all work great just depends on what you want.
I love the transitions loved my Commencial loved my freaking trek Y bike back in the day
@Marty See I was on 2 different versions of hecklers over the years, Gen I 1996 ish and whatever the last gen was around 2007. Both were awesome bikes at the time. I even had the APP version the Butcher which I thought was a nice improvement. A good bike is whatever bike makes you happy when you ride it.
I think its a number of factors that change suspension behavior like weight, rider stance ect who cares if its not smooth uphill if your a bike park/DH rider? Or vice versa, then theres the debate of the shock itself, the feedback the brakes give, the drivetrain, frame flex and not to mention the aimed use, are u taking 15 foot drops or 4? Are u pro traveling at 50kmph over rough terrain or a weekend rider going 20? All those factor call for different specific final designs. What we all want to be told a bike is that it will be the perfect allrounder for what you fantasized you will do on the bike
Little confused. Y'all say it's CBF, however looking at a Canfield, it's a co-rotating dual link with the shock connected directly to the rear triangle. Yet these Revels look like it's a co-rotating dual link with a linkage driven shock? That seems like a pretty major difference to me. Can you clarify?
Yep, the shock on our bike had to be extended (that's the extra link you see) in order to get around the seat tube. If you think of that upper link as just an extension of the shock then it's a bit easier to see the similarities in the designs.
@@jeremiahstarkey6487 thanks mate, that makes sense!
I was in NP last month and wanted to ride one but saw you only had a M available at the time. I need an XL.
Yous guys were in Colorado and didn't check out Guerrilla Gravity and Alchemy? Shame.
Curious how a smaller chainring would affect the suspension's action....
Where is the trail that your riding the Revel MTBs on?
That is Red Hill right next to our shop in Carbondale, CO. It's a blast.
@@jeremiahstarkey6487 Looks awesome!
OK last question Jeff would you prefer the rail or the rascal
For the majority of the riding I do, I would prefer the Rascal.
Please explain how the CBF design differs from a single pivot design since both designs have the rear axle rotate around a tight spot near the top of the chainring. The CBF center of rotation moves around by a tiny bit more. Is that what makes it behave differently than a single pivot?
Hi James, the CBF vs a single pivot comes down to the instant center or the point which the rear axle is rotating around at a give position in the travel. For a single pivot the rear axle is always rotating around the same point as that point never moves. On a CBF bike, the instant center moves so the axle path can be manipulated away from a single radius arc. So, yes, the movement of the instant center is one of the differences between a single pivot and CBF.
So this isn't a rebirth of the original Revel bikes brand then.
@worldwide cyclery How would this compare to giants mistro suspension lay out outa curiosity sakes those that have tried both
Hmm, want to try one now. Also what’s the secret project....
Just going to have to wait and see...
Damn i need a new bike
WHAT IS THIS NEW ONE! 8:22
maybe a 27.5 trail or a full 29 er enduro
@@edgargz658 I was hoping an XC type bike. Or a Long Travel XC type Bike.
What size is the bike ?
The bike in the video is a med. We have Small, Med, Large and XL in both the Rail and the Rascal. The Rail is a 27.5" 165mm travel and the Rascal is 29" 130mm travel.
Would oval chainring mess up CBF suspension?
It's there a difference between CBF on Canfield bikes and Revel bikes?
No but i like Canfield more
So how does it compare to the Switch Infinity system?
It's a bit hard to compare suspension designs generically but where CBF uses 2 rotating links, Switch Infinity uses an upper rotating link and a lower vertical sliding structure. The biggest difference in results is probably the axle path, but again, hard to generalize.
Jeremiah Starkey thank you! But how do they differ in “feel”?
@@mountainbiker8904 Not sure I can answer that as what I "feel" in a bike is likely different from what Jeff feels or what you feel. By far the best way to figure that out is to get out and test ride bikes back to back. Worldwide has demo bikes!
How would this compare to giants mistro suspension lay out outa curiosity sakes those that have tried both
My bike is a hardtail but great front suspension and was cheap af like £400 new id love to know what he would make of my bike. These look so sweet but im happy with my cheap aluminium bike. I WILL get a high end bike so help me!
Talk about YT bikes suspension PLEASE.
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Rear suspension similar to Nukeproof Mega bikes.
Cbf or dw-link?
Has anyone at WWC put a 150 fork on a rascal yet?
cool bike.
Could be great with a xc bike with 100mm suspension.
lives in a country where there is no need for such spring suspension on bicycles.
🤓🧐🤯🤩
"Adam and I took a little trip to Colorado and we got a lot of cool mountain bike stuff done."
Yeah... mountain bike stuff. No weed at all huh?
I was gonna go shred but then I got high...I was gonna learn about CBF but then I got high...now i'm siting in the ER and I know why...cause I got high, cause I got high because I got high....la dee da da da...
It looks a lot like a DW link design where the link connected to the shock attaches at the top of seatstay rather than the upper pivot , bike looks very cool .....just wish it wasn't kitted out with sram
Twin link bikes have been around for a very long time and most of them look pretty similar.
We know everyone won't like bike specs exactly like us but when we miss the mark, we still have frames. Worldwide will sell you a frame and you can build it up however you want!
Looks a lot like DW Link. Which ain't a bad thing.
Man I would murder for a Rail frame in Tang, not only is it my favorite colour and possibly the nicest orange i've ever beheld, but it genuinely seems to be the best linkage design, how has it taken so long for it to emerge and not be taken by one of the mainstream manufacturers...I like that its an independent company, like Floyd Rose license guitar bridges.
@chris canfield
One question though, if concentric pivot axles (Trek ABP) were not locked down, would or could it be included in a similar linkage? Of course that would mean the rear triangle wouldnt be a solid one piece and would probably look completely different or not function.
A little birdie tells me these chew through damper shafts on shocks. With Rockshox not selling replacement shafts I'd be checking that Fox upgrade box.
Back in the msn days cbf meant “can’t be f***ed”
I would be very curious to see how this bike handles with a trust performance front fork
That is a good question, I know I have seen a few around on social media but have not ridden one, I bet it's amazing.
Looks like a Giant Trance
One day a good mtb will be something the normal person cam afford to own. I'll be dead and buried long before that day
Edit: Just bought a Revel Rail, but then again I'm not a normal person.
It looks like a 4 bar system like what Santacruz has
It might look similar but Santa Cruz uses the counter rotating design VPP (one link spins clockwise while the other link spins counterclockwise). CBF links are spinning in the same direction. It's a pretty dramatic difference in the end.
Jeremiah Starkey oh ok. Thanks dude
😀
That bike looks cool, then i check the price....😥
*pedals by on hardtail..
What happened to the word " very" why has " super" taken its place?
Garry from Hobart Tasmania Australia I would like to promote sales for you guy's SO if you are keen let me know?? 🤩🤔👌👌
What a load of marketing mumbo jumbo. With all those pedal performance claims, they should at least show anti-squat and pedal kickback graphs. And if they really want to be taken seriously, the height of the center-of-mass used in calculations should accompany anti-squat curves, which should be shown for all gears.
Generic marketing talk.
Very, very interesting bikes!! But come on Revel, MAKE SHIMANO GREAT AGAIN!! I'm interested, but not interested in SRAM.... Just sayin'.