I Made a £38 Tool Perform Like a £338 Tool
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- Опубликовано: 24 ноя 2024
- Amazon recently released a line of woodworking hand tools under their Amazon Basics range. So I not only decided to test it, but also attempted to make it perform the same as my Lie-Nielsen hand plane, which currently retails at £338.
If you want to know more about some of the issues I faced while modifying this plane, be sure to read this blog post. It covers things in much more detail than this video.
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My name is Matt Estlea, I'm a 25 year old Woodworker from Basingstoke in England and my aim is to make your woodworking less s***.
I come from 5 years tuition at Rycotewood Furniture Centre with a further 1 year working as an Artist in Residence at the Sylva Foundation, which is where I began growing my business. I then returned to Rycotewood to teach Evening Classes for 2 Years, while also teaching City and Guilds Furniture Making for 3 years. They were some long 12 hour days!
In September, 2021. I resigned from teaching at the school to focus on my own business.
In addition to all that studying and teaching during the week, I occupied my weekends working at Axminster Tools and Machinery in Basingstoke. For 5 years, I helped customers with purchasing tools, demonstrated in stores and events, and gained extensive knowledge about a variety of tools and brands. I discontinued this job role in 2019 to focus on teaching at Rycotewood and my own business.
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Развлечения
Now this video has tickled your pallet. If you fancy learning a bit of woodwork yourself, be sure to visit my FREE Online Woodworking School here:
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No sign up required, it's all there waiting for ya :)
Do
its not that expensive
in Poland u get maybe 6-7$ per hour of work like that XD (5$ if u work for someone)
Bottom line has to be the soft cheap blade material. Cracking job though.
NL have loads to be proud of
@Jorj palate
There’s good timber in a pallet…
I love this video. A craftsman I met years ago said to me:"I'm not a wealthy man. I can't afford poor tools." Whenever I disregarded that sound advice, I lived to regret my choice.
What great quote, I'm going to pinch that!
"I'm too poor to buy cheap things" it's the universal saying, and it's adapted in different scenarios.
The saying I adopted very early in my life was, "Buy once. Cry once". Every time I've tried slipping around this I too have lived to regret it. The only time I buy cheap tools is when I know there is a 99% chance that I will need it the one time or that I am planning on destroying it in the process.
@@BenLillegard I am of the opposite opinion when it comes to any tools you do not use professionally. I buy any tools I need cheap the first time I buy them (unless I allready know I need the more expensive version). When they break, I buy the expensive version. Why? Most of my cheap tools never broke, because I do not use them as often or as hard as a professional. When they break It means I use them often and hard enough to justify the purchase of an expensive tool. I bought my first cordless drill from a shop that sells mainly coffe and paid 20 bucks. It was cheap made with cheap plastic and a cheap motor. It was just good enough to do what I needed it for as a poor student, and it only broke after 10 years from an aged battery. A brand name cordless drill at that time would have cost me about five times the money and the battery probably would have died anyway. By now I have quite a few cheap tools that are good enough, some expensive brand tools, and a pile of junk that was wasted money. I would only have half amount of good tools if I had to buy expensive brand tools and even with brand tools sometimes they are wasted money junk.
But if you buy for professional use, time is money and you don't have either to waste on a cheap tool.
It's true. Whenever I buy cheap tools I always end up upgrading anyway and then your left with junk you can't even giveaway. You can always sell good tools for not much less than you paid for them as well.
Selling it?
SEND IT BACK TO THE GUY WHO SAVED YOU.
Yeah, thought the same, it would have been nice !
I automatically thought the same thing
I know huge missed opportunity needless to say the guy is a woodworker not a businessman
@@vavet39 the guy is actually a girl who is a woodworker don’t know her day job but I think she told Matt to keep it
This edit was spectacular! I'm going to hug my LN planes tomorrow and apologize for cursing them when I got my credit card statement.
I thought the same same thing - wonderful pace, humor, and just general vibes in this cut (something you rock at yourself, JKM 🤘🏻)
Lie Nielsen is awesome!
I really love my Ferrari over my lada as well. LN you are paying a lot to get a lot, but worth it if you are serious
If you are only starting you dont really need to get that one, you can get one cheeper but not as cheep as this amazon basics crap :)
@@MrCalbber I would suggest watching YT videos and renovating vintage one.
Matt, your work here is NEXT LEVEL. I've done some heroic work to cheap tools, but nothing like this. I think this plane is the same as one sold in the States under the Buck name. I did about 1/10th the work you did on mine and then gave up and made it into a scrub. My hat is off to you!
Hi Rex, you too are a legend 👍
Haha cheers Rex! I must admit that a scrub plane has been the fate of all the previous planes I’ve tried to restore. Appreciate it mate 👍
I agree, this closely resembles the Buck plane bought from home depot for $35, right down to the manufacturing issues Matt covered in the video. I built a shooting board at not-a-right-angle to compensate for the crooked sides of the plane, and the bottom still has some wind to it that I try to compensate for by hand. Even without using better materials they could have resolved some of the issues by adjusting their tooling and using some thinner paint, but they did not. It sucks.
Ha, I've also "scrubbed" my new Stanley I bought new at HD. What a shitty plane!
Yeah this was a monstrous amount of energy. I've seen your videos on planes as well, Rex, and it leaves me curious: where did either of you get this wealth of knowledge? Can either of you recommend any resources for handtool maintenance/ servicing? Or anything on planes specifically? I'm in the middle of a furniture making education and this is not knowledge that seems to be on the curriculum...
The best part of this epidode, for me, was the detailed breakdown of all the component parts and how they function as part of the whole. Im a total noob with wood so Ill be referencing this more than once, Im sure.
Nice work.
Cheers Sean! I have a free online woodworking school if you want to learn more of this stuff. www.mattestlea.com/school
There’s a whole section on plane sharpening and setup just waiting for ya 👌 Glad you enjoyed the video
I am newer to woodworking and bought this plane a few months back. I am glad that I did. Because I have learnt how to tune it and sharpen the blade. I have screwed up sharpening the first few times best lessons learnt. I would rather learnt on this then veritas plane. I would have gotten frustrated and upset if I had messed up the blade on that one. I will also appreciate a higher quality one, which I will get eventually. That much more.
Can’t agree more. Learning and tearing up a cheap plane is the way I went too. Now I know how it all works, how to sharpen the blade correctly, etc. I think I’m ready to own a more expensive plane.
Yes, I'm in the same boat. Bought a cheapy because I had no idea and wanted to learn. I have also learnt to tune it up and will next learn to sharpen it, before moving to something better. At least I will know the difference and won't mess up the more expensive one. The cheapies are an excellent learning tool.
Hello! Your friendly neighbourhood Blacksmith here!
I'd like to personally thank you for the great video. I'd also like to say a few things about the debate of cheap tools.
I agree that expensive tools last longer & do their job far better. Luckily in my trade, It comes far more naturally as old and handmade tools are one of the only ways to get into blacksmithing. I'd also like to thank you for mentioning that it's better to buy decent tools and give back to the community of quality workmanship that you & I both are members of. My favourite phrase for this is: "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten". That being said, Sometimes fixing a cheap-o tool is better than spending a large amount of money on a tool you'll only use once.
Your videos are good quality, fun, & right up my street. You've earned a like & subscribe. I look forward to seeing more of your quality content in the future.
All the best,
Magnus
After watching this video, there was one burning question remaining. You valued your time at 60 pounds, or currently $77.20 American dollars. You obviously spent an incredible amount of time fixing a poorly crafted tool. At the end of your journey, and including the price of the tool, how much was the tool now worth? I'm thinking much more than your LN. If you like, deduct the time you might need preparing a LN for use.
Being a retired guy on a very limited budget, Lie Nielsen planes are way out of my wheel house. Wood River planes aren't, so that's what I use and they work well for me. Thanks Matt. You gave me all the reason needed to avoid wasting money on Amazon Basics woodworking tools.
I was gifted a Low Angle Jack from Lie Nielsen, it just feels different. Also, the blade from the factory held an edge for what seemed like forever before requiring a sharpening... the quality was apparent.
Even the electronics, locks, and toys from Amazon basics aren't worth the "savings"
@@Azurath100 I guess that depends on how much one saves on shipping costs, doesn't it...
Woodriver/luban/dictum aren't bad quality.
However after doing the math you can conclude that a Lee nielsen/veritas is actually cheaper.
It just might be that you need 2 Woodriver planes that can be substituted by one veritas/Lee Nielsen.
As different blades, do exist for these planes.
Yeah absolutely Bill but how many time do we see something and think its a great deal to find its a pile of ****** and to be disappointed and cuss cause we know we should know better at our age.
Great comment at the end about getting people to understand and appreciate truly hand made furniture. That's one of the reasons I started my channel and support yours. Thanks for helping to keep true woodworking alive and pass down tradition! Cheers mate!
The rough surface of the frog made clear that the manufacturer had no idea how a plane works! I just bought a couple of Lie-Nielsen chisels, my first purchase from them. They are absolutely gorgeous, and clearly made with a commitment to quality. My grandchildren will use them eventually. I have mostly older Stanley planes, but I think at least one L-N plane is in my future. :-)
Last year at this time I was the guy who bought that plane, and after watching all sorts of videos like this one I have it working decently. I feel that going through all the effort, for me anyway, was the apprentice lessons I needed to understand how the tool works and elevate my skills. How many people buy these things and just give up because they think they lack the skill and do not have the fortitude do what you just did? Now... a year later.... I can spot a quality plane from an Amazon Basic a mile away. Lesson learned.
To your point about craftsmanship a person will not buy a hand built piece of furniture unless they understand and appreciate the effort that went into it and love it. The same is true for a well built tool. The average person who puts things together with pocket hole screws do not see the value. For the person who is putting a bit of their soul into what they are creating $338 is worth every penny.
The Craftsman plane I inherited showed that someone got so frustrated and angry they must have thrown it hard onto or up against a hard surface, damaging it and warping the blade. After working on it for hours, I remembered one I saw at a Pawn shop for $20, and got them down to $15, for a Kobalt. It needs a little work, but all this learning really draws a retiree into the shop for some fun and accomplishment. But imagine all that schooling Matt's been through. With all that behind him, now he could focus on finding a mate if he hasn't yet, hopefully one who's attended his classes. Artists and craftsmen spend hours on end in their trade, and a selfish mate can really disrupt the business.
I'll stick with my ancient Stanley's, some of which are older than my now deceased father who died last March at 91 years old. I dropped my favorite the other day on the concrete floor. It chipped the floor. The plane? Still good as gold..
So relieved it was the floor that received the damage and not the awesome vintage plane!
Beyond buying quality tools, this is also going to help me revive some of my Opa's old wood working tools! I've never really looked into until now, but this makes me want to sit and take the time to fix up some of his old tools that I have, and it's great that you've shown the right way to do it AND explained why you were doing it. Great video man!
Could have sent it back to the person who sent it to you in the first place as a thank you, just a thought.
@@joecooper1703 what are you talking about!? He ordered one to do this very video but the order got cancelled... Did you even watch the video?
@@joecooper1703 Over 400,000 views and people talking. I don't think that it hurt him any. Did he get his money back from Amazon when they cancelled his order?
@@joecooper1703 you really have no idea how much money he made on this video, do you?
@@damioncutler1115 And then a viewer sent one to him, right? Did you even watch the video?
@@deViant14 How would we have any idea what he made on the video!
When I decided I wanted my woodworking to be with handtools only, it was a deliberate decision. At the start of _my_ journey, I bought and revised 3 old Stanley planes, as well as 2 handsaws. The restoration of those tools taught me 2 things: 1) I learned a LOT about the workings of the tool and 2) I don't like the process AT ALL and I will stay away from doing this again at any cost, I will buy good quality tools for the price they deserve from the maker that cares. Only IF I should find a tool that I Am not familiar with and I feel I'd need to know better, I will chastise myself to go through the hoops of a restoration-process again. There is one small light at the end of such a process: I really, really like the tools I refurbished!
Your comments about quality tools and mass produced millwork was spot on. Very well said.
I've got a saying I use to justify my "overblown" purchases all the time: Buy once, cry once. It's nearly always worth it to spend the $$$. Well done, Matt.
As long as you don't go into debt for your tool purchases you'll never really regret buying the expensive tool... at least given that it's a tool you actually need.
I recently picked up an old (1950's) Stanley smoothing plane for $25 at an antique mall. It was rusted and beat to hell. Seriously - looked like somebody tried to sharpen it with a giant round file. This video was my guide for restoring it, and I now have it in my regular rotation, performing almost as well as my LN. Thanks, Matt.
The editorial comment at the end before the reveal was perfect.
Let's not forget the milling station required to fix this puppy.
All that said, Matt, when it comes to feddling about with trash to find a treasure, Outstanding !!
Amazing video Matt! Absolutely agree with your conclusion that quality tools are very much worth the money to buy them. This video shows why the "I can make a cheap tool perform like a Lie-Nielsen or a Veritas" is not a very viable route for beginners or non-beginners at all if you actually want to do woodworking. The tools, resources and skills needed to actually make a cheap plane perform like it's expensive cost so much more than the cost of just buying an expensive plane, in terms of time and money. It's a complete false economy.
When I started out not a few years ago, I tried to restore some vintage No.4 planes to use as an alternative to the expensive ones. It was one of the most unrewarding and frustrating things I've ever spent time doing. It didn't get me what I wanted, and cost me so much money and time that one day I realised that I'd spent so much time trying to restore this plane that I hadn't done any woodworking for weeks. You know, the thing that I actually wanted to do in the first place. Bought a quality plane shortly after. Did some actual woodworking the next weekend, and breathed a big sigh of satisfaction.
I just want to take this moment to appreciate Matt in The Sound of Music
That one was just for you Sara 😘
I loved the no table saw text at about 13 seconds in had to pause and play a few times to read it but it made me laugh!
@@jamesduffin9417 I saw that too - had to pause a couple of times because it was displayed so fast. Got a good laugh out of it.
Matt should sell this as a poster.
@@Rsama60 it is his mantra!
Your attention to detail, resolving issues and drive to make a video that is not only masterfully edited, but proves a point, is truly refreshing! You seem rather young and have gathered so much knowledge and skill! Keep up the amazing work!
Who’d have thought that tarting up a plane could be so exciting? Great stuff.
That Amazon scrap has been lucky to get to plane paradise. Masterpiece. "No matter what price you spend on the plane, it will never be ready right out of the box." With the extent of work you had to do, you have convinced me to jump straight for the premium tools. I admire your locksmithy craftsmanship - it is inflammatory:-)
Great cinematography for a channel like this! It's almost like it's an actual show you would watch on the cable channel! Congrats and thank you for the informative information!
First video I saw of you but I'm already in love with the pasion you've put into it. I warms my heart to see people who care about the small details and those who are able to create and improve. People like you, make this world just a little bit better. :)
Do more edited challenge/tool-transformation videos like this! This's informative AND interesting!
Matt, Thanks so much for this informative video. You've explained the years long mystery of why I can't get what I thought was a simple tool to do the job that I'd seen so many woodworkers do. I use my cheap plane for unsticking doors and other work that will never be seen. I've never considered it a serious tool, and it makes so much more sense now. When I can afford a high quality one, I will definitely add it to my tool box, use it, and take care of it.
Good job on the editing! Can't imagine how much time it took! You convinced me to never buy a cheap plane!!!
I'm so glad i actually watched this whole video. I started and almost raced out to buy the Amazon Basic! Thank you so much for this. As a very new woodworker the cost of all of this is a bit overwhelming as I don't want to fail and waste money. However, videos like this help to understand that as a beginner sometimes you can create your own failure by buying the wrong tools! Keep up the great work!
Moral of the story: Your hourly rate is too much 🤣🤣🤣
Jokes aside though, I'm with you on this one. However, there are also legit choices for people who can't afford these tools. Buying and refurbishing vintage ones is one of them. I've done it several times and am truly happy with what I've ended up with.
Absolutely! I'm just targeting the people who say that expensive tools are a waste of money. Especially those who DO have the budgets to afford them. Everyone else is all cool 😎
I reckon cheap vintage tools and cheap new tools are completely different ball games. Cheap vintage tools are often worn out or unloved, but well made, out of good materials, and if there is nothing unfixable that is broken they can be brought back to something wonderful. A cheap new tool is likely to be poorly designed from poor materials and you will be forever fixing it.
@@MattEstlea I would not consider myself a woodmaker/joiner/carpenter by any means (my background is IT!!) but I buy & restore planes for the pleasure of seeing a rusty old useless No4 planes etc turned into a beautiful workable tool. In fact my family are now offering "gifts" to be re-furbished!!
but I like modding 😶
I'm a modder 💗
Man RUclips needs their own Oscar award. This video would be the woodworking Godfather. Great job
You forgot to concider the tools you need to buy to do the tuning (lathe, flat stone, sand paper,....). Thank you for showing the quality of that plane in detail. I am personally not looking for the cheapest but for the best in price/ quality ratio and sometimes I buy the best tool and sometimes I take a cheap one. It depends on each case.
This is the best, most detailed hand plane restoration video that I've ever seen! I have several car boot bargains that I've already hugely improved, this video will enable me to take them to another level. And why do I need several #4 planes?... So that I can practice and learn how to get at least one running really well, including side by side comparisons of 'these two are performing to the same level, so if I work on this part on one what difference does that make?'. It's a great way to learn if you're not concerned about your hourly rate (the luxury of being a hobby wood worker).
I was expecting an rc plane or something, but now I know one more object called "plane"
Amazing edit btw
YES HOLY SHIT IT TOOK ME 2 MINUTES TO FIGURE OUT THERE WON'T BE AN actual RC plane involved
dude you're 100% right with your summary at the end. dropping money on expensive tools/furniture is hard, but buy once, cry once. otherwise you'll end up buying it several times and spending the same anyway
Matt, great video and tips on how to fix a cheap plane. As they say, you get what you pay for! And what an edit, Rob. Well done ✔ 👏 👍 👌 😀
I love that! (Removes cloth to see belvita biscuits) "ROB!!!!"
First, this is an outstanding and entertaining deep dive into how to set up a hand plane. Well done! As I see it, the ultimate problem was in the ambiguous term "basic." Your definition and that of Amazon's supplier were vastly different. As I don't have a metal lathe or sufficient patience to go through this epic grief, I'll opt to pay for "quality."
problem is they usual only attach another sticker for the "premium tools"
You’re absolutely right on the paying for quality..”however.!!! As a hobby woodworker and a keen repairer of all things broken.!,I get a great deal of pleasure recommissioning old broken tools, admittedly old Stanley planes are usually made of slightly better materials than you were dealing with but either way - the sense of achievement in your eye’s after completing the job was definitely there ..!! The expensive plane you use looks to be a thing of beauty and function, a rare thing in these days of mass production and built in obsolescence…!! Great video…👍
Love that you left that Amazon Basics logo intact. Bravo, great video.
Had to be done! I was also tempted to upgrade the blade. But there was something charming about keeping all the original parts.
After 3 months of watching this video like once a week i still replay it from the begining if i blink... The editing is amazing!
There is also a middle-ground, not to buy cheap "junk-tools", but to buy tools which fit to the budget of someone, but still good quality. One does not need to buy "the best" all the time. Although I agree to think about when / where to spend money. I bought some good tools, but typically not the most expensive ones, often the second or third (for example Bosch GKT 55 for 240 Euros, instead of Mafell for above 500 Euros). The cheapest one are indeed seldom a good option. But even that can be the case -- for a specific user / budget. Today many think one does need "everything" and only the best. But that's just simply not true. Nothing replaces your own dedication, love and practice. :-)
Bosch are great decent tools that don’t cost eleventy million to buy
@@mattyallwood Yes, I have some Bosch powertools, one Metabo and one Makita. I also have some great stuff from
Veritas - was surely also not the cheapest, but by choosing wisely what to buy I can use the Veritas clamps very versatile and get by without any front or end vice. I have a very good small metal vice which I bought second-hand for 35 Euros. This I use also (with the addition of wooden spacers) to clamp some of the wood, for example when doweling that can often be quicker than with the Veritas clamps in dog holes.
I still need a plane or two. I look for second hand or might buy a Dictum or Juuma plane possibly.
@@nickgoogle4525 yeah my thoughts also.
The difference in this video and the last 6 months is night and day. The quality of this video is off the charts and raises the bar for even the larger more established maker channels. If this is the path you are choosing to follow they'll be ranked in the top 5 maker channels in no time! I think you'll smash your 500k subscriber goal for end of 2021 if you keep this up. Really great piece of work and a really lovely shout-out to the companies that choose to make quality over quantity and keep passion in house.
Dude was seriously inspired by Top Gear's narration style. Respect.
Great video - I think I learned more about how planes work and how to adjust for shortcomings in this than any other video I watched. Useful for anyone who uses and restores planes.
Just about pissed myself when you said that it looked like they installed the lateral adjuster with a gun..... bang on accurate comment.
It’s a thought I relished for a long time. Just trying to imagine how they would go about doing it is hilarious.
Great Video. I see a lot of "Makers" with the attitude: "Oh thats expensive i can build this myself." I never saw anyone take their time into account.If you take your time and the needed tools into account for building something the "expensive" "just-buy-it solution often does not look that expensive.
Equally, I see lots of people trying to pretend their spare time has some sort of monetary value. I value my spare time, but it’s not a monetary value. No one is paying me by the hour outside of work. Not to mention, it would be a pretty dull world if everyone only did things that were financially sensible - that would be most hobbies out the window for a start.
I agree with your comment about people moaning about mass produced furniture. My brother is a cabinet maker and he moaned that I had bought a sideboard from oak furniture land. When I asked him how much would he have charged to make it, more than double of what I explained that people like me cannot afford custom bespoke furniture, but I could afford this on internet free . So the purchase of this hadn’t robbed anybody of a sale . People who can afford bespoke furniture go to a cabinet maker, those who can’t go to OFL. They are different markets so nobody is being hard done by . He shut up then
His point of the hypocrisy is absolutely right.
Brilliant! I learned more about planes in this vid than dozens of other showing a good planes planning well. Fantastic concept for a series and I really love the message - buying good tools puts food on the tables of people who care. It's about value... not price. Would love to see a whole series like this. Outstanding work !
Stunning job. I really can't understand how some people have hit the dislike button.
Obviously Amazon suits
Just a thumbs up from the Australians, Louise. Glad you enjoyed watching it!
I did this job professionally for many years: remaking crap tools and materials, including tempering and carbonising soft steel, which is an often overlooked feature in cutting tools of all kind.
It is so satisfying to watch a happy face while joyfully using your fixed tools, and see people coming with tons of tools to make better.
I stopped doing it, because I lost my workshop.
Great video. Important message. Incredible production and editing. Loved it.
Good video. My favorite part of this video is where you really point out the value of well made tools like well made furniture. Keep it up.
Absolute brilliant overview Matt!! Great lesson for woodworks to know; especially the hypocrite reference.
Followers might like to know premium vs old Stanley Bailey No.4.
Have a great Christmas, and Rob too...🎄🌲🎅🏻⛄️❄️🎁
Love the edit. Keeps you watching, even if it’s completely off topic for you.
Plus it makes you appreciate the finer craftsmanship as it compares with something slapped together. Thanks for making this!!
I love the Axminster shop it's so exciting being able to see every tool you have ever dreamed of in person
the process of modifying this plane to work right reminded me so much of when you've innocently decided to fix a little bug in your code and end up plummeting down a rabbit hole of increasingly broken code and all the patchwork laid on top of it until you've finally made it to the bottom and can start fixing it all the way back to the top.
Ugh, I feel this comment sooooo much.
I'm in the middle of doing the same on some legacy code. (But I've definitely done on my own as well)
found so many jewels by debugging legacy code of programers that left for greener pastures...
like
If (! b != false)
lol you are allready deep into someone elses ways of thinking snd then you see that....and wonder whats still out there to discover.
Woodworking UK FB group recommended your videos and now I can’t stop watching them 😩👍
I'll be starting some hobby-ish woodworking when me and my girlfriend are getting a house soon. to fix, upgrade and make furniture etc. I'll definitely be doing this after buying a bunch of cheap-ish tools to get the most of it. for starters at least :)
well i wark with an hand plane that i bought with 10 euro i think , and has like 4 years and still going , with tune ups and so on , and maybe a expensive tool its ok but a lot of time as a beginner some cheap stuff its more than enough , soo good luck
I have found that the stanley contractor grade tools are good. You will need to flatten and sharpen them
thank you, every time I view one of these videos I learn a bit more about the tools I love. at my age it is more about just enjoying the process than anything else.
There are so many things still wrong with this plane. The iron is too soft to hold an edge, so most of you time will be spent sharpening or stropping it. The cap use a screw for tension, so taking the blade out and putting it back in will never be exactly the same as last time. The finish is spray painted instead of japanned, that finish is going to come off easily, leaving your plane to rust. For a lot cheaper price, I would just get an antique Stanley. At least tuning that up will last a lot longer.
I loved this presentation as it reminded me of purchasing a Silverline #7 plane from a catalogue returns company. £15 and I expected crap and I was not disappointed. Like your Amazon plane, the casting was terrible,the frog rocked, the sole was not flat, 0.33 mm hump in the middle and the blade was made of toffee. The biggest problem was the yoke had been value engineered to the point where it could not adjust the blade without spreading and disconnecting from the adjustment wheel. I'm retired so time is plentiful. I forged a new yoke, flattened the sole and fettled the frog. I replaced the blade with a new Stanley blade and now have a very functional #7 plane for less than £40. Later on, I found I could buy a new yoke for £5 which would have been a faster solution but not half as much fun. Thanks for your videos and well done on the dovetail challenge.
And also the hunt is on for those rare cheap good tools. Perhaps that's when you should look for vintage 2nd hand hand tools that are generally made with better standards.
Yep! Support the passionate second-hand seller, not the guys in suits. Same message applies!
Love this message. In German there‘s an expression I use often: “preiswert” meaning it is worth the price.
Quality always has a price as well as some pretty impressive pay offs. It’s often also about long term results and satisfaction.
A really impressive demonstration. It put a huge smile on my face. Many thanks. Also excellent video editing.
I’m afraid I neither support the premium tool manufacturers nor the budget ones either. Pretty much all my planes are old Stanleys and Records. Far better quality than this example for less money. I would love to buy Lie Nielsen or Clifton, but I don’t have the budget.
I totally get that. Despite my overall message being in defence of premium tool makers, I think the same rule could be applied to passionate second-hand tool sellers. As long as it's not the guys in suits, I'm all with you.
I'm an amateur woodworker so I subscribe to a lot of woodworking channels, and whilst I am sure there are others out there, yours is the only one on my list that is truly skilled with proper hand tools. Don't get me wrong, I love power tools as much as the next guy, but it's awesome and inspiring to see things being done this way. And it also never ceases to amaze me how two products that look so similar can be so far apart in terms of quality. Great content. Thanks for putting it out there for us to enjoy.
An excellently produced video. Also, bought one of your marking knives a few months ago and never got around to thanking you for how beautiful and useful it is. I love it in my shop.
That’s great to hear, thank you!
Your videography and edit skills are catching up with your woodworking skills! Awesome video!
So after all the tuning work, you still end up with softer steel on the edge - an inferior product. It was great to watch the workover process by someone who knows his hand tools, but I think this is a clear example of why if your tools are your life, buy the best and only cry once. I echo the earlier message of "I'm too poor to buy cheap tools."
Almost a case for getting in touch with trading standards - could you actually use it as a plane before many hours of fettling. If you bought this to take the bottom off a door, like a few people will, it would look like you'd chewed the door bottom.
Great video Matt. Instructive, informative & humorous,
im so glad to see this. i have one of these damned abominations and have had an awful time with it
I started woodworking just about 3 years ago. I went through the whole business of trying to find pre-war Stanley planes (simply not easily available here in Canada unless you spend most of your time going around to auctions and estate sales instead of woodworking). Then, I spent time trying to set up post-war Stanleys and a big box store smooth plane (junk). I finally realized that this was all a bad idea. I saved my pennies and bought a Veritas jack plane. While I am not a huge fan of the Norris adjuster, the tool has been a dream to use. After that I started making my own wooden planes using hardware kits from Lee Valley, and also some Hock irons etc. David Finck's wonderfull book helped a lot. I have made a wooden 22" jointer that works beautifully, If anyone were to ask, I would recommend putting out the cash for at least a LN or Veritas jack plane. With all due respect to Paul Sellers, if you can only afford one good plane, a #4 is probably too small (IMHO). You will never regret the purchase of a high end plane if it is within your means.
Dude sends you a plane to play with. "I don't want it, I'm selling it!"
I mean, I understand the statement, bit the price of a Lee Nielsen is 3x what I spent on my entire basic tools.
If I had to buy Lee Nielsen and Veritas tools when I began, I would never had begun to begin with (lol)
I'm sure when I'll be settled I'll buy lots of fancy tools exactly for the reasons you mentioned, but until then I'm still a youngtser that's paying for his gf to finish university and lost his job during pandemic and if I didn't have these cheap tools avalaible I couldn't have started woodworking and I wouldn't have been building the cart I use to work today.
Same boat here. Though been splitting the difference, picking up older planes second hand. No they're not veritas or lie nielsen, don't expect them to be. Not knocking higher end tools but everything has its place. Just like someone starting out in automotive. Most don't have the budget for $100-200k usd to load a tool cab (which can run $14-20k alone). Or the person looking to change their oil once in awhile, not really in need of a $400 snap on set and maybe a $30 craftsman set will get the job done.
"I spend lots of money on tools" Subbed.
I simply cannot afford to spend more on a hand plane than the most expensive machine in my shop. I work in the Social sector and they simply don't pay me enough. I found a cheap No 4 copy in Brico Depot, took it home, took it apart and started to readjust. It works sweetly now, but having watched this I now have lots more adjustments to improve it even more. Some of us don't have the option you suggest, so this was wonderfully useful. Don't put us down - some of us work for the benefit of people at the bottom of the heap, and have more time than money!
To be honest surprise you didn’t sent it back to the person who sent it you
As was I.
Indeed I was also
I was, too. But then I realized how much time he put into it and figured this was a way to recoup some the time he put into the thing...and the original plane was a gift. Maybe he checked with the sender and was told to pass it along.
@@jasonbailey9139 yeah probably they might if exchanged something I would if said I give you the plane you send me one of them knife lis you made
@@jasonbailey9139 I mean the video probably did that.
You make such a great point about people who buy cheap tools and then Complain about cheap furniture and the like.
Especially when you consider the value of time what is it you want to do? If your passion is fiddling with tools that’s one thing. But if your passion is to use quality tools to produce quality results and enjoy the benefits of working with top flight tools well the answer is obvious. Not to mention that shouldn’t the community of wood workers want to support companies like Lie-Nielsen who produce truly excellent tools crafted as a labor of love? If you don’t support them then they can’t stay in business and all you’ll have left is cheap junk.
Totally agree with your summation. I picked up an old 'Great Neck" plane before I knew better. had to do almost everything you did to the Amazon BasicsCrap plane. Frog bed was off, sole was off, everything rust coated. I managed to tune it to a decent plane, never again. Gave it away. I have several old Stanley and Miller Falls planes of various sizes and have spent far too much time getting them better than original, they still fall well short of the Lie-Nielsen, Veritas, Woodriver. They are actually pretty good now, just not good enough. Selling them all, next plane will be one of the aforementioned. Great review and tutorial on what a plane should be.
Think this is the fastest I’ve subbed to a channel, fantastic work!
As someone who’s grown up in a household where it’s been instilled to get the best tools you can I can wholly agree on what you’ve said here.
Also as a precision manufacturing engineer you gluing abrasive paper to a granite surface plate made me weep 😅
I’ve seen multiple online videos either reviewing cheap planes or showing how to make a cheap plane perform like and expensive plane but I think this is the only one that answers the question of is it really worth it and got me thinking about how I spent my money on tools
From Amazon "We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock." Matt, I think you have confirmed this will not be back in stock ever again! 😂👍
Hahahahaha! Oops!
Great video! I'm going from the machining world into the woodworking world.
I wouldn't say you did anything bad at all with your machining!
Great video, good engaging pace and story too
I'd like to see a video where you take an out of the box lie neilson and and bring it upto the same standard.
I’d struggle to fill out a minutes worth of video, genuinely. Quick secondary bevel on a 6000 grit stone, carefully set it up, take a shaving. Sorted 👌
Best video I've seen from you, for all sorts of different reasons: entertaining, educational and thought provoking.
I've recently got myself a couple of Axminster own brand planes. It's been such a long time since I used a plane that I can't really legitimately compare them to the Stanleys I used.
Even if you are semi professional, saving £200 on a plane just isn't significant over the years. Long live quality!
Ha! So the moral of the story is that cheap tools are only for experienced woodworkers with an adjacent machine shop! I whole-heartedly agree with your synopsis. Cheers!
👀👀👀
I come from an AV background and there’s a saying, “Cheap kit is expensive kit”. I think this applies to here as well. Cheap tools are fine but, either you’ll have a lot of trouble setting it up and keeping it sharp or you’ll wish you’d just bought a decent one to begin with. I’ve got a couple of old Stanley’s and a Record No 4 (which was my Dads) and a couple of Axminster Rider plane as well and I’ve had better result with the Axminster’s than the Stanley’s. So I guess you don’t have to get the most expensive tools and you certainly should never get the cheapest.
Anyway great video Matt and Rob keep up the good work.
I thought the goal is to perform, not ALSO to look like Lie-Nielsen (edit added "also")
Did you miss all the time flattening, sharpening, fixing the underlying mechanisms, etc. and just pay attention when he painted it?
@@bogatyr2473 What I meant to say is "the goal is to perform, not to look like and perform ...". In other words if he wanted to see if he can make it usable for same money or less shouldn't strip the ugly finish and ONLY focus on making it work better ... that would have saved half of the work
@@nickpelov Right, that was my thought, too. Nearly a solid quarter of the time spent was on cosmetics.
Wonderful idea, beautifully executed.
I fully agree with your assessment of cheap tools and l agree that you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
My challenge is that l'm 68 years old and l won't live long enough to justify investing in premium tools.
The middle ground for me is acquiring older, well made tools which justify my restoration efforts. I inherited several fine old Stanley planes and l actually enjoy restoring them.
Again, thanks for an informative and insightful video.
While I agree with you I have to add a slight caveat, there is good and good enough. Do you "need" a Lie Nielsen? Simply enough, no. However getting a quality tool to get the tasks done is all that is truly important. Just my humble opinion. But I can say beyond a doubt you have vastly more patience than I.
Wholeheartedly agree. I think it's the language people use to describe premium tool manufacturers that miffs me more than anything. What you've demonstrated is a holistic understanding of the quality spectrum of tools, as opposed to labelling the costly ones a 'waste of money'. Cheers Richard!
Great message at the end. I heard a story that Amazon will basically look for items that are selling well, find someone to mass produce them and then not only undercut the original products price, but in some cases remove their listing from amazon all together.
A vintage Stanley might be the best compromise I guess.
Maybe getting a refurbished one? I saw a beautiful Stanley no.6 for sale at a vintage market and it was only £75! Still annoyed I didn't buy it at the time, but didn't have the spare money to drop that week.
I need to find that guys details again, his refurbished tools were insane and way too good of a price.
@@smellyhandsarefun or refurbishing a run-down one! Plenty of quality planes on Facebook Market place and others for next to nothing.
@@Chimpiin This is the best solution for a new person in my mind. They get to learn the tool when refurbishing it, and they can get it for a reasonable price. I waited till a nice one showed up locally, it just took time.
@@Swarm509 Same! I got myself a number 5, a 7 and a number 10 stanley or bailey planes for £10-15 each and restored them. Work lovely now after I followed a Paul Sellers video.
@@Chimpiin Exactly what I did with the ones I bought and a few larger planes I inherited from my father.
Wow, another great video. I wasn't expecting this at all, it was another level indeed. I think this is the best video I've seen (scratch that, it's the only video I've seen) that demonstrates why expensive tools are expensive and why cheap tools are cheap. I know Matt says towards the end that he's put a bit of a downer on things but it's a great point and makes you think. Amazon are in it to make money. Lie Neilson could easily knock out cheap tools but they have a reputation to keep. Not that I could warrant a Lie Neilson plane for the stuff that I do but I do appreciate their quality.
Use this plane if you expect to hit nails.
Getting that plane that good just raised your skill level, I think it's something to be recognized, great job
Cheers Tom!
I was a little concerned this would be good advertisement for the Amazon plane - no matter the result - as they say there's no such thing as bad press. Pleased you got serious about the key issues at the end. The craft we are all in is so fragile clinging on for survival in a modern world, and one of the last escapes from these large corporations. Let's not give them the market. If you want a cheap plane... be patient, and wait for a stanley bailey at a good price.
A poor man can have "rich" belongings, he just has to wait a bit longer to get it. Depending on your living situation or if you have to provide a family, It's easy to save 20 dollars a week to save for a lie nielsen plane, and it would only take around 4 months or less to get. 4 months in the grand scheme of things is nothing, considering if you're planning on doing this hobby for a life time.
The best bang-for-buck tools I've ever seen have been at garage sales and craigslist, with ebay in a close third. The reason that those tools are identifiable, and that their potential can be realized, is because of people like this that know *and* care enough to educate others.
I first saw this plane awhile back and thought it was fake. Couldn’t believe Amazon made a plane. I’m glad you made this video because my curiosity was getting the better of me and I wanted to buy it to see just how bad it was haha now I don’t have to
To be sure, Amazon didn’t make a plane. They paid some cheap Chinese company to put their logo on one.