As always Brent it’s great to see and hear from a Master Engine Builder that cares about doing it correctly. Keyboard genus gurus crack me up and some of their “knowledge” is just as hilarious.
Sir, Really enjoy and appreciate you explaining your thought process and approach and sharing your expertise. To attest to the 351 4V Clevelands factory understessed specification. My father , 81yrs old now , still has his Australian 1970 Ford Falcon xwgt he purchased new. 177,000 miles(285,000kms) travelled. .only has required replacing right bank head gasket, carter fuel pump carter, alternator rebuild. Still runs very nice on original coil, dizzy cap, rotor, autolite carb etc. Albeit with less oil pressure than new! 20mpg to boot. Dad was going to buy the H.O version( like the super cobra jet version in US), for another $200, but after comparing on test drive, said no because bit of a pig for mum to dri e as family car and more like 6-8mpg and not much more performance. Smart choice , would have taken alot of Gas Cash to do 177000 miles! Strong Torquey engine that winds out effortlessly. Oh , the revered toploader, uni joints and 9" lsd diff have all needed a rebuild behind the venerable 351c engine. ps: there was a replica iron factory dual plane done here in aluminium with improved ports that works to keep the original look. Cheers👍
Many years ago when I helped a buddy run a Cleveland powered econorail he acquired a used solid roller cam and lifters (we had been running solid flat tappet all along) and decided to install it and see how it ran. I don't remember the cam specs but we checked valve to piston clearance and were satisfied there was no interference issues so put it all together and fired it up. We immediately noticed a significant drop in oil pressure- I think it was around 45-50 psi when it had been running at 65-70 before. We didn't have the time or means to explore further so just went back to the previous setup. I'm really enjoying this Cleveland build
Loving the content on your channel. I have limited engine building experience (small and big-block Chevy, Ford Windsor and 2.3 Lima) but I've seen a slight out of round between the vertical and parting line rod and main bore measurements, especially when torqued. I just assumed that was normal.
Lykins Motorsports Hi Brent. So how do other rod companies like Molnar or Scat compare to the Eagle rods as far as the big ends being in spec to each other? Are you gonna dyno this engine?
Very helpful advice, as i plan a flat solid rebuild. You only bush the passenger side lifter bores? Like the No.1 main oil mod, makes complete sense. Regards, adam.
Lykins Motorsports Brent with the oil mods you didn't mention the TMeyer cam bearings. I have those in my Cleveland. How do you like those? Also I remember you saying a while back you will sometimes restrict the oil with the pushrods. When you sent me my Bullet solid flat cam, you also sent me the Comp Cams EDM lifters. I know the hole on the lifter face is suppose to keep the cam wet but do the EDM lifters also help with the lifter bore bleed off if you are not running lifter bore bushings?
Good videos. One thing I noticed is the front cam bearing looks like it's installed too deep. It should be installed between 0.005" and 0.020" from the front machined face on a Cleveland.
@@lykinsmotorsports the depth isn't for the cam bearings per se, it's so the clearance between the bearing edge and the thrust plate acts an oil meter for the oil squirted from the port exiting between 3 and 4 O'clock at the chamfer.
@@lykinsmotorsports could you elaborate on that please? I'm from Australia and have been playing around with Clevelands since I was 20 and am now 58 and haven't heard about different bearings needing to be installed at different depths because of the way they're made but am always willing to learn. What type/makeup of bearing are you using in this build? I've always set the depth depending on how large or small the chamfer is (and they vary a bit down here). On a block with a larger chamfer, I set the depth closer to the 0.005" end of the spec. On a block with a very small chamfer, I set the depth closer to the larger end of the 0.020" spec but would never go deeper because all that does is expose more of the oil port wasting pressure and flow in an area of the Cleveland that is already a bit more complicated than most as far as oil flow and control is concerned. From the video, it appears you've set the bearing back 0.040 or 0.050". Sorry for the long post but am just interested in some possible new knowledge. Maybe in your next video for this build you could include a short segment on your methodology for installing the front bearing for all of your followers. Regards.
The biggest issue in building an engine these days is finding a meticulous machinist. A lot of machine shops have gone by the wayside , forcing a builder to drive a significant distance to source a competent race engine machine shop. It's not getting any easier.
@@lykinsmotorsportsfantastic education, thank you! Would you just send the rods back and tell them to do better? Seems unfair for you or the customer to pay to have to resize the rods…poor QC!!
@@lykinsmotorsports one more question Brent do you bush the passenger side lifter bores only when you run solid roller or both sides, I misunderstood sorry.
Too many times, I've seen this. When the parts changers just take stuff out and throw it together, they just can't understand why something "brand spanking new, out of the box!!!", scatters pieces all over the track.
I think that is really pathetic that you pay so much for these aftermarket connecting rods and you still have to spend more to get them to an acceptable state .
No sir, an aftermarket rod should not be out of round with no bearings in it. Back in the 60's, this may have worked with junk factory rods, but it's not how we do things today.
@@lykinsmotorsports maybe you don't but that's how we do it, and so do many top-flight builders. We adjust our bearing eccentricity by adding up to .004 more for various applications when we can't get enough eccentricity from the bearing manufacturer. I suggest you read some scholarly articles on bearing eccentricity and its relation to time, oil pressure, load, and rpm to understand how it affects the hydrodynamic oil wedge. Bearings are designed to be out of round and it varies from bearing to bearing within the set and across lines like P vs V vs H vs King vs FM vs ACL. A stock bearing in a .001 out-of-round rod will have zero effect on bearing life in a low rpm engine and if you are concerned just measure the shells for eccentricity and put the lowest one on that rod. it. In reality, a .001 out of round rod or crank journal in a low rpm street motor won't affect engine life in any way. It's not a 10000+-rpm Cup/Sprint engine. PS I don't send my rod to the machinist cause Im the machinist. since 1985. I just walk over to the Delta cap cutter, cut the caps, number the bolts to the rods so they go back in the exact same hole, measure the free length and record it, clean and lube em,, stretch the bolts record the torque required and hone them on the Sunnen power stroke.
Not necessary unless the rods are so flimsy that they will pinch the bearing. I have >1200 hp pulling truck engines turning over 9000 rpm with perfectly round rod bore housings. If that was the trick, then Oliver/Callies/Carrillo/Lentz/Pankl/etc. would send them out of round. Rod housings should be round. Bearing bores should be out of round. Have a good day.
Авто/Мото
As always Brent it’s great to see and hear from a Master Engine Builder that cares about doing it correctly. Keyboard genus gurus crack me up and some of their “knowledge” is just as hilarious.
Great video Brent. Always great to see good cleveland content
Will check,now -on
Thank you Brent for this great oil system video, it's going to be very helpful on my 351c build👍🏻💯
If they that far out of spec I'd return and get another brand
Looking great Brent, your details are awesome. I like that do what works for you
I live in the e town ky area, and have a 72 ranchero with a 410 cleveland stroker. Will totally hit you up when the time comes for a freshen up.
Thanks for this series of videos. And going over some of the oil mods.
Sir,
Really enjoy and appreciate you explaining your thought process and approach and sharing your expertise.
To attest to the 351 4V Clevelands factory understessed specification.
My father , 81yrs old now , still has his Australian 1970 Ford Falcon xwgt he purchased new.
177,000 miles(285,000kms) travelled. .only has required replacing right bank head gasket, carter fuel pump carter, alternator rebuild. Still runs very nice on original coil, dizzy cap, rotor, autolite carb etc. Albeit with less oil pressure than new!
20mpg to boot.
Dad was going to buy the H.O version( like the super cobra jet version in US), for another $200, but after comparing on test drive, said no because bit of a pig for mum to dri e as family car and more like 6-8mpg and not much more performance.
Smart choice , would have taken alot of Gas Cash to do 177000 miles!
Strong Torquey engine that winds out effortlessly.
Oh , the revered toploader, uni joints and 9" lsd diff have all needed a rebuild behind the venerable 351c engine.
ps: there was a replica iron factory dual plane done here in aluminium with improved ports that works to keep the original look.
Cheers👍
Many years ago when I helped a buddy run a Cleveland powered econorail he acquired a used solid roller cam and lifters (we had been running solid flat tappet all along) and decided to install it and see how it ran. I don't remember the cam specs but we checked valve to piston clearance and were satisfied there was no interference issues so put it all together and fired it up. We immediately noticed a significant drop in oil pressure- I think it was around 45-50 psi when it had been running at 65-70 before. We didn't have the time or means to explore further so just went back to the previous setup.
I'm really enjoying this Cleveland build
Best sounding V8 of all the 8's.. 👍
Loving the content on your channel. I have limited engine building experience (small and big-block Chevy, Ford Windsor and 2.3 Lima) but I've seen a slight out of round between the vertical and parting line rod and main bore measurements, especially when torqued. I just assumed that was normal.
Slight is not abnormal. A couple tenths isn't bad, but .0007-.0008" is a mile.
Smart🎉,i learn something
Thanks Brent
I'm a Ford guy, but those high dollar parts won't stop the block from splitting! 9.5 deck aftermarket block with those 2,79 journals is the way to go!
Cleveland block won’t split….
Lykins Motorsports Hi Brent. So how do other rod companies like Molnar or Scat compare to the Eagle rods as far as the big ends being in spec to each other? Are you gonna dyno this engine?
Love the videos. Amazing how the rods are off out of the box. What brand would you recommend that are closer to spec?
Most brands are. Just not that many companies make cleveland rods.
Very helpful advice, as i plan a flat solid rebuild. You only bush the passenger side lifter bores? Like the No.1 main oil mod, makes complete sense. Regards, adam.
I bush all the lifter bores.
Lykins Motorsports Brent with the oil mods you didn't mention the TMeyer cam bearings. I have those in my Cleveland. How do you like those? Also I remember you saying a while back you will sometimes restrict the oil with the pushrods.
When you sent me my Bullet solid flat cam, you also sent me the Comp Cams EDM lifters. I know the hole on the lifter face is suppose to keep the cam wet but do the EDM lifters also help with the lifter bore bleed off if you are not running lifter bore bushings?
Some one sells a set of plugs for oil control.
Good videos. One thing I noticed is the front cam bearing looks like it's installed too deep. It should be installed between 0.005" and 0.020" from the front machined face on a Cleveland.
Depends on which cam bearings you use.
@@lykinsmotorsports the depth isn't for the cam bearings per se, it's so the clearance between the bearing edge and the thrust plate acts an oil meter for the oil squirted from the port exiting between 3 and 4 O'clock at the chamfer.
Yes, I fully understand what it's for, but it also depends on how the cam bearing is made.
@@lykinsmotorsports could you elaborate on that please? I'm from Australia and have been playing around with Clevelands since I was 20 and am now 58 and haven't heard about different bearings needing to be installed at different depths because of the way they're made but am always willing to learn. What type/makeup of bearing are you using in this build? I've always set the depth depending on how large or small the chamfer is (and they vary a bit down here). On a block with a larger chamfer, I set the depth closer to the 0.005" end of the spec. On a block with a very small chamfer, I set the depth closer to the larger end of the 0.020" spec but would never go deeper because all that does is expose more of the oil port wasting pressure and flow in an area of the Cleveland that is already a bit more complicated than most as far as oil flow and control is concerned. From the video, it appears you've set the bearing back 0.040 or 0.050". Sorry for the long post but am just interested in some possible new knowledge. Maybe in your next video for this build you could include a short segment on your methodology for installing the front bearing for all of your followers. Regards.
Do those engine block have bosses for 4bolt main just not machined in?
The biggest issue in building an engine these days is finding a meticulous machinist. A lot of machine shops have gone by the wayside , forcing a builder to drive a significant distance to source a competent race engine machine shop. It's not getting any easier.
1st eyes on.
do you just put lifter bushings in one side with solid lifter cam?
Both sides.
How much for the roller if u don't mind
I wonder,, is that common to have brand-new con rods out of round like that?
No, it's not common.
@@lykinsmotorsportsfantastic education, thank you! Would you just send the rods back and tell them to do better? Seems unfair for you or the customer to pay to have to resize the rods…poor QC!!
@@lykinsmotorsports one more question Brent do you bush the passenger side lifter bores only when you run solid roller or both sides, I misunderstood sorry.
Too many times, I've seen this. When the parts changers just take stuff out and throw it together, they just can't understand why something "brand spanking new, out of the box!!!", scatters pieces all over the track.
I think that is really pathetic that you pay so much for these aftermarket connecting rods and you still have to spend more to get them to an acceptable state .
Typical Eagle.........
LOL absolutely nothing wrong with rods .001 large at the parting line as a matter of fact its better for high rpm.
No sir, an aftermarket rod should not be out of round with no bearings in it. Back in the 60's, this may have worked with junk factory rods, but it's not how we do things today.
@@lykinsmotorsports maybe you don't but that's how we do it, and so do many top-flight builders. We adjust our bearing eccentricity by adding up to .004 more for various applications when we can't get enough eccentricity from the bearing manufacturer. I suggest you read some scholarly articles on bearing eccentricity and its relation to time, oil pressure, load, and rpm to understand how it affects the hydrodynamic oil wedge. Bearings are designed to be out of round and it varies from bearing to bearing within the set and across lines like P vs V vs H vs King vs FM vs ACL. A stock bearing in a .001 out-of-round rod will have zero effect on bearing life in a low rpm engine and if you are concerned just measure the shells for eccentricity and put the lowest one on that rod. it. In reality, a .001 out of round rod or crank journal in a low rpm street motor won't affect engine life in any way. It's not a 10000+-rpm Cup/Sprint engine. PS I don't send my rod to the machinist cause Im the machinist. since 1985. I just walk over to the Delta cap cutter, cut the caps, number the bolts to the rods so they go back in the exact same hole, measure the free length and record it, clean and lube em,, stretch the bolts record the torque required and hone them on the Sunnen power stroke.
Not necessary unless the rods are so flimsy that they will pinch the bearing. I have >1200 hp pulling truck engines turning over 9000 rpm with perfectly round rod bore housings. If that was the trick, then Oliver/Callies/Carrillo/Lentz/Pankl/etc. would send them out of round. Rod housings should be round. Bearing bores should be out of round. Have a good day.