The alloy bikes are getting more and more expensive. Even Commencal has a few $7k+ which is crazy IMO ... I think warranties play into it as well. If I can get carbon with a good warranty and crash replacement, it might be worth it in the long run. I'd never buy used carbon though, since warranties typically don't transfer owners.
@@topspot4834 That’s not true at all either. I own a FX3 aluminum and it is a 1,000 bike. You can get a FX4 carbon fiber at under 2k, and it is Carbon fiber.
I do remember how fun it was to go fast when I was young. I am 62 and don’t bike when I am in a hurry. My bike is 28 years old, works great, and is made of chromoly steel. I will confess that on a good day I wonder how fast I could go on a good carbon fiber bike. Nice to see you kids having fun on them.
i have a 2014 Santa Cruz Bronson C, and 2014 Trek session 8.8, both are great bikes. Going up hill with with the Santa Cruz is easier, and its better on bumps feels lighter at only 26 pounds. The Trek is a dream bike to look at, and performs like a beast. They both are incredible.
A modern Aluminum frame is good enough for most people. I like good Carbon Wheels/Seatpost on a high quality (Reynolds/Columbus) Steel frame (Allroad/Cross)... Carbon is for the Pro' s/Racer.... Pain in the ass for Nature and very expensive (if you want a good build, solid, very light and stiff frame ) Cheap carbon frames are more placebo than good...
My 40 year old Cannondale is good enough for me. Did get some unfriendly comments from friends of G Klein when I first bought it. Never from Gary or his Spouse.
В 80-х гонял на стальных конях "Чемпион шоссе" Харьковского вело завода. До не давнего времени ездил на алюминиевом МТБ и мечтал о карбоновом шоссейнике. Мечта сбылась, уже неделю катаюсь. Очень доволен.
"Alluminum can't be repaired" and then there's me trashing my xc hardtail repaired alluminum bike without worrying about anything, it has hold on pretty well for the kind of things I've done with it.
@@codythill2659 You just have to anneal the aluminum frame, it's not a big deal. There are several places in every reasonably large city that do it. I would not say that carbon is any easier to fix and make durable again than aluminum. They are both a pita and it's gonna be more cost effective to just get a new frame either way.
Carbon fiber for my Cyclocross Race bike, carbon fiber for my Gravel Race bike, carbon fiber for my Road Race bike, and carbon fiber for my Adventure/Bikepacking bike! So I guess I’m a fully carbon fan!!! I’ve dented aluminum a bunch, but never done anything to carbon so that’s why.
Hydroformed aluminum tube sets are available from top Taiwanese manufacturers. Those tubes are the product extensive research whose goal was to produce a new generation of aluminum frames that perform well. If you know what to look for, you can walk into a bike shop and see them being used on many mid-range bikes.
Yeah definitely gotta be a little more careful with it. I just learned that lesson pounding through a rock garden before I hearing a large "crack". Time to walk home with my cracked wheel.
It comes down to price really. I have a SantaCruz aluminum from 2013 with Shimano XT and Mavic wheels that I paid 500 dollars for, the same set up carbon can go to upward of 5000 dollars, it's up to you.
I still have my Vitus 21 tubing Motobecan ,,, and an Aluminum Mountain bike and I have a Specialized carbon fiber road bike,,,,my favorite bike is always the old 21 speed 27" Miche rims she's been so many miles for me and dude she is super fast.. never got rid of anything....
I have both alu and carbon cx and gravel bikes. Funny thing my alu giant with basic build spec is still much lighter than my carbon di2 bikes. But at the end of the day, they all bring a smile!
❤ my 2016 GT PRO series 2 Aluminum frame w/carbon forks. Dura-Ace group set. Shimano 105 rim brakes. RITCHEY WCS full carbon seat post and a Selle Italia saddle . RITCHEY WCS Handlebar stem. Mavic rims wrapped in specialized TURBO tires. LOOK full carbon KETO Peter Sagan clip in pedals.
Of course, and I think that I can speak for everyone, I use a variety of materials for different bicycle applications. For World Championship Downhill I use a Carbon Fiber Composite Frame with steel bracing and Titanium swingarm and forks. For World Championship Enduro I prefer a steel frame with Carbon Fiber sub frame with Aluminum swingarm and a Boron Composite Fork. For World Championship Road Racing and Tour Le France I typically use a Carbon Fiber Composite Frame with Carbon Fiber Composite Forks. I prefer Titanium gusseting and TI bars, levers, and fasteners. For World Championship Endurance Racing I like an Aluminum Alloy Frame with Carbon Fiber Composite Skid Plate and Boron Composite Swing Arm and Forks. For greater comfort I prefer a Steel Subframe and Titanium water bottle holder. Anyway, those are my particular preferences. I'm interested in what others like too.
Aluminum. I have been riding my Garry Fisher Cake 2 for years in the rocky mountains. Inspite of what some say, aluminum can be repaired. I would recommend some models carbon for the road.
Even on a road bike I can't trust carbon frames like it's been said the few gains on carbon frames don't out weigh the issues they come with in my book and I can get or build a great aluminum bike for less by far
So.... They are comparing carbon to steel? Then reference aluminum as the alternative, So you lost me right in the beginning, Very unprofessional, Carbon fiber has all types of Grades and weaves for different integrities. Basically aluminum has a longer shelf life at half the expense, Don't get caught up in the hype, Your not a pro that gets a free bike every year, go aluminum. Be smart, Be safe
Going back to 2009ish I weigh 235lbs, don’t pick clean lines, and do crash. I’ve had 3 aluminum mtn bikes and 4 diff sets of aluminum wheels…all failed. I’ve had 2 carbon mtn bikes and 2 diff sets of carbon wheels, both XC and Enduro…never failed. No 2 riders are the same. No 2 crashes are ever the same. I’ve personally had much better performance and durability from carbon.
Never road a Carbon Fiber bike, I do have a couple Aluminum bikes and an couple old Steel Framed as well. The difference between the Aluminum weight vs the Steel is crazy, but I don't think the Carbon vs Aluminum weight difference is as dramatic. My Giant Rapid III is my go to bike for long distance rides, did the 100 mile on that Aluminum Bike and love it. So guess I am a metal head, ROCK ON!
Yeah you’re an old bomer who has no idea what you’re talking about. 🤦♀️ In 1972 - an absolute boom in 10-speeds in the US - I bought the world’s lightest general production road bike. It wasn’t all that expensive. It weighed just under 21 lbs. (Came standard with silk sew- ups of course) It was a 100% steel frame. Reynolds 531 double- butted throughout. Reynolds 531 is manganese-molybdenum, medium-carbon steel tubing. In the last 10 years I’ve had high end aluminum and carbon enduro mountain bikes. The difference between the two are significantly greater than the difference between steel and aluminum back in the day. Carbon enduros aren’t more advantageous in all ways but that’s a discussion for another day.
@@mrsmartypants_1 I'm glad you added "who has no idea what you're talking about" my Brother had a Peugeot and the things gearing and drive mechanism seemed way smoother than a lot of American bikes that I road. Back mid 70s. But mostly road dirt bikes like Penton, Husky and Bultaco and raced MX and Enduros. Like sawmill and forest hill. Many exotic materials and methods not seen today. Some boomers know a lot. Better learn before the technology is lost to time. Like Damascus Steel etc. Many emerging technologies and techniques have been done before. But Fear and Arrogance squash knowledge. lol They Won't even let them Race 500cc 2 strokes any more. Honda stopped around 2000. "Due to Environmental concerns". Now 2 strokes are running cleaner and are getting a few foots in doors. Ears are opening. Maybe that will bring back swedging and sweating of frame tubes. Titanium and Magnesium. One can only Dream. People only work from home now days. "C'mon Jack wanna do some pushups or go out back." lol better watch what you say to some boomers.
You probably haven’t ridden a modern top end steel frame bike. My steel bike is Reynolds 853 and is set up with high end components and only weighs 17 lbs. most entry level to mid level Alu bikes weigh as much or more and unless you’re racing the weight difference between a UCI minimum carbon bike and a high end steel bike is pretty meaningless at 2# when you factor in the weight of the rider. The main difference is the cost. You’ll pay significantly more for the Carbon bike to achieve a comparable ride quality of a high end steel bike and the Steel bike, properly maintained to prevent corrosion (easy enough to do) will last you far longer and be a better value purchase.
Had 1989 Aluminum Trek 1500 road bike. 22#. Did 3 cycle to the Sun on Maui sea level to 10'000 feet. Down tube shifter's extremely reliable did most climbing & downhill rode the crap out of that Trek 15 years Ultegra components. Tires, brake pads, cables, bottom bracket overhaul. Also quite tantalus mountain time trail climbs. Never had problem with the frame. Now retired got a Lemond aluminum carbon fork road bike & a Fuji hybrid aluminum with disk brakes.. Both use to climb tantalus as it's near where I live. Since I'm 72 years old like to ride the Fuji hybrid more comfortable esp. the downhill. Cam climb faster on road bike but but it's not about speed anymore at my age.
Ignore this whole video I got a carbon fiber stump jumper that’s gone through hell and back so many times it’s practically got a citizenship there. If it’s well made carbon fiber it will be better than aluminum in every way but if it’s a lower end bike just get aluminum until ur ready to invest in something dope. Haven’t watched the vid either just putting this comment here for a quick sum up on them
@@lesliepropheter5040 HELLO you are thinking of MAGNESIUM. In the 70s the Husqvarna factory caught on fire and couldn't be put out. Now they foam and other methods to deal with it.
Let’s stop about weight being such a big deal… I have a full carbon, but then I put on a water pak at about 2.5 pds full…. My next bike will be Al, due to pricing and longevity
"You must choose wisely "- Yoda. " you have chosen aluminum, and chosen correctly. May the force be with you. " - Yoda Millennium Falcon had to have a refit of 7075 T-6 to repel enemy fire and withstand G forces of warp speed. The old carbon fiber panels were too brittle
Interesting. There are a lot of info out there telling to be very careful with carbon fiber parts when applying force to it (e.g tightening a screw). it can cracks if you are not carefull. Aluminium is way forgiven on this.
As a consumer I am thinking first price point which puts me in the range of Alum over carbon. If I am a pro racing in events and weight means everything I am going full carbon.
I have a newer Madone, SPEC. Allez and a Ritchey Road Logic steel. I mainly ride the Ritchey and a steel Salsa Gravel. Every carbon frame 8 broke. Non in a crash. I don't trust it so it stays on the Wahoo Zwift set-up. New steel. Has a sweet ride what I remember from the 70s . Classic frames look best to me. My Madone is ugly. Ritchey Dura Ace with Dura Ace deep carbon hoops. Whatever floats your boat. Just ride
Engineer here: Aluminum and steel frames are often heat treated after they are welded. This is done to normalize after welding to soften the heat affected zone and then the rest of the frame is frequently heat treated again to harden the rest of the frame to improve fatigue resistance. If you weld repair the frame, you'll also need to re-normalize and re-heat treat it.
If environmentalists weren’t so stupid they would realize that the same carbon is always here. Its only the form that changes. Maybe they should worry if carbon fiber is gluten-free or if whales eat aluminum frames or whatever is their lastest lunacy.
Can you explain what you mean by carbon fiber is "repairable"? Everyone I know that had damaged carbon frame ended up with a useless frame. Another point you don't address is that carbon bike can more easily damaged during cold temperatures.
I would worry about carbon fibre, impact or fault in the manufacturing process could ruin your day. I do use it in rc planes etc though and it's very impressive.
I get a trifecta of riding enjoyment and material there made of ranging from my Felt Broam 30,Felt FR 30, the 2 being aluminum and I had to go carbon on a high speed performance experience in my Felt AR Advanced 105 Di2
The biggest thing for me is vibration. I had two bike, a Trek Madone (carbon) and a Specialized Allez (aluminum) with the same carbon seat posts, handlebars, and wheels and on same 28c tires and the Allez was more fatiguing because of the road buzz so I tend to grab the Madone most of the time.
Don't you think thats a bit over the top. Vibration lol. It's psychosomatic . It's been cool for 100 years but now it's a big problem? Common. And you can't fix carbon fiber
Thank you guys for this video! When you´ve had the opportunity to ride all your life you can say with certainty a lot of stuff, carbon is definitely much more comfortable, way much, IF you are a commited cyclist (ridingat least 10 hours a week or more), if you´re not that serious an alminum bike will work for you really sweet.
I was told I should get a steel bicycle because im 6ft 245 not fat.Hard pedaling and I can feel the bike twisting.I was told by more experienced cyclists.I really should really have steel?
it all comes down to $$. if money is not an object, carbon all the way. if not, aluminum is best suited for daily riders to endure the use and abuse in all weather and environment. carbon will be great for road or even fitness hybrid that are used in good weather/road condition.
Sometimes it is not about money it can also be about the different rides different materials offer a hi quality aluminum frame can be a blast try a specialized allez sprint even better if it is rim brake
2:14 DUDE! Show me how easily you can weld carbon fiber than aluminum! I have 20 years experience welding all of metals. So tell me what you mean "if you crack an aluminum frame or dent it really badly it's toast.."!!!
Had a second hand carbon . Broke it, just went to trash . And bought aluminum now . Will never go back . Feels perfect I would buy carbon only new with warranty!!! Never used
Yeah buying carbon second-hand can be risky, unless it's inspected properly beforehand. Luckily all of our carbon bikes undergo exactly that so you can be assured in your bike's safety. But there's nothing wrong with riding aluminum, modern aluminum bikes are phenomenal!
I might be in the minority but I prefer steel. Sure it’s heavier, but having the privilege of riding high end bikes of all varieties and materials, I have found that nothing beats the feel of a well made steel frame.
I use mosso alloy frame, only 4 months want to upgrade seat post, saddle and handlebar with carbon. What are your opinions? Possible to speed up with power before upgrade?
Frames are usually heavier and fairly expensive. Every bike I own except 1 is steel. Love the material, but man, a full suspension steel bike is just as expensive as carbon fiber.
“Aluminum is 1/3 the weight of steel” What?….. Obliviously you guys already know that there exists different compositions and chemical make-ups of steel and other alloys, not to mention the finished and treatments they may or may not recieve. This influences overall hardness, resistance to torsion and/or buckling, weight, and overall ride quality. Why would you say something like this?
@@Steve-og3cr much of the 7000 grade aluminum alloy is right up there with steel. 7075-T6 is quite strong but can be to brittle depends on the application and environment to get the best alloy performance.
Aluminum is not as reliant upon skilled labor as is carbon fiber layups. Who is making your carbon frame? Are the factory personnel actually skilled at carbon layup, or does the factory hire anyone who can roll a cigarette? Defective carbon frames are only detected with costly xray analysis or by outright failure. Aluminum is assembled by robot welding, and is relatively ez to inspect. Aluminum will almost always give plenty of warning prior to failure. Carbon most frequently fails catastrophicaly without warning. Carbon fiber begin to break down from the first use, and the pace of deterioration accelerates as the carbon/plastic matrix breaks down. Aluminium will not deteriorate unless it is deflected beyond its resiliency, potentially lasting indefinitely.
Work from home Carbon fiber molders don't have the proper equipment so you are going overseas where countries are on the edge of revolt. Asia is going to be a powder keg in the near future. Might try some African countries.
I’ve only ridden aluminum and steel and can’t feel a difference in vibration. I can’t afford carbon and have never ridden one but I’m pretty sure I won’t notice a difference in vibrations.
Why the most cyclist which use carbon bikes they don't cycling often the winter months? I am all around year cyclist and very rarely see carbon bikes in winter months?
Fair point! However, carbon frames can be repaired whereas aluminum frames cannot, theoretically extending the life of a carbon frame further and allowing more use. That's the great thing about Certified Pre-Owned bikes, there's no additional environmental impact due to manufacturing since we're extending the bike's life!
All carbon fiber and the resin deteriorates over time making it weaker than aluminum. No matter how cool you made it sound. If I'm wrong how many old (over 10 years) carbon frames do you see people riding? Exactly
Modern carbon fiber is far superior to its predecessors. Most major manufacturers even offer a lifetime warranty on their carbon frames now. It also depends on how well taken care of the bike is and the conditions of where it's stored.
Aluminum all the way. I’m not dropping $$$ on a carbon bike that rivals the cost of a used motorcycle. I mean that shop in the UK that repairs carbon bikes said in one video that he’s repaired 14k Carbon bikes! Seems to risky cost wise
Truth is that carbon breaks more often than aluminium. I see much more carbon frames broken these days, than aluminium, when it was the most popular material.
That was agood topic on bike frames the pros & cons that suits your needs on frame choices thanks for sharing yourvideo for all to watch peace out in paradise from honolulu hawaii aloha
After you repair it, you'd have to heat treat it to 570-800 degrees to get it back to original strength. Tell me what you'd have to do to repair it? I wish the Spencer & Bruce didn't say it's not repairable, because they are, it's just that they are not practical to repair, that's what makes them irreparable.
@@paulm8269 plus the fact that they did such a poor video makes me leary of any advice. I am a welder and agree a fab shop may save your vacation but wouldn't be jumping anything. And take out of service after trip. Your 570-800 seems high to me but it has been a while since welding Aluminum and new alloys have come a long way. I expected a carbon fiber mold and some extruded Aluminum not a rolled up piece of paper. Might as well rolled a joint. Would have gotten more out of it.
@@paulm8269 is the welding and heat treating done inside a chamber? Had some different parts made before from Titanium and they had to be welded with these gloves and a special window like a bead blaster. plus a hood. Then the mirror welding where everything is bassackwards.
I think we need to help people understand this….
Carbon $5,000-$12,000
Aluminum $1,000-$3,000
Seems pretty easy to understand to me.
The alloy bikes are getting more and more expensive. Even Commencal has a few $7k+ which is crazy IMO ... I think warranties play into it as well. If I can get carbon with a good warranty and crash replacement, it might be worth it in the long run. I'd never buy used carbon though, since warranties typically don't transfer owners.
That’s actually not true at all. You can get entry level FX4 Trek and even a FX5 for 2k and under.
@@topspot4834 That’s not true at all either. I own a FX3 aluminum and it is a 1,000 bike. You can get a FX4 carbon fiber at under 2k, and it is Carbon fiber.
wrong. 2000-2500 € bikes have carbon frame.
I do remember how fun it was to go fast when I was young. I am 62 and don’t bike when I am in a hurry. My bike is 28 years old, works great, and is made of chromoly steel. I will confess that on a good day I wonder how fast I could go on a good carbon fiber bike. Nice to see you kids having fun on them.
i have a 2014 Santa Cruz Bronson C, and 2014 Trek session 8.8, both are great bikes. Going up hill with with the Santa Cruz is easier, and its better on bumps feels lighter at only 26 pounds. The Trek is a dream bike to look at, and performs like a beast. They both are incredible.
A modern Aluminum frame is good enough for most people. I like good Carbon Wheels/Seatpost on a high quality (Reynolds/Columbus) Steel frame (Allroad/Cross)... Carbon is for the Pro' s/Racer.... Pain in the ass for Nature and very expensive (if you want a good build, solid, very light and stiff frame ) Cheap carbon frames are more placebo than good...
My 40 year old Cannondale is good enough for me. Did get some unfriendly comments from friends of G Klein when I first bought it. Never from Gary or his Spouse.
Bamboo?
@@lesliepropheter5040 Someone was marketing a set of lugs you could buy to make your own bamboo bike. Way too flexible except as a novelty.
@@billsmith5109 I was half kidding, the carbon fiber is where it’s at. Thx
В 80-х гонял на стальных конях "Чемпион шоссе" Харьковского вело завода. До не давнего времени ездил на алюминиевом МТБ и мечтал о карбоновом шоссейнике. Мечта сбылась, уже неделю катаюсь. Очень доволен.
Aluminum all the way. I’ve taken way too many rocks to the downtube for carbon, and I like the snappier feel of aluminum more
Right on!
"Alluminum can't be repaired" and then there's me trashing my xc hardtail repaired alluminum bike without worrying about anything, it has hold on pretty well for the kind of things I've done with it.
Hey, don't let these guys know you disagree with them, they'll get mad..
Hi
Ya I mtb also and you can’t fix aluminum without completely ruining the Heat treat and if you running d.h you’re on a ticking time bomb.
@@codythill2659 You just have to anneal the aluminum frame, it's not a big deal. There are several places in every reasonably large city that do it. I would not say that carbon is any easier to fix and make durable again than aluminum. They are both a pita and it's gonna be more cost effective to just get a new frame either way.
How is it heat treated a second time
Carbon fiber for my Cyclocross Race bike, carbon fiber for my Gravel Race bike, carbon fiber for my Road Race bike, and carbon fiber for my Adventure/Bikepacking bike! So I guess I’m a fully carbon fan!!! I’ve dented aluminum a bunch, but never done anything to carbon so that’s why.
Hydroformed aluminum tube sets are available from top Taiwanese manufacturers. Those tubes are the product extensive research whose goal was to produce a new generation of aluminum frames that perform well. If you know what to look for, you can walk into a bike shop and see them being used on many mid-range bikes.
Marin Taiwan here 🇬🇧 🤟🤠💯
A good example is the sagmit bike
I see broken carbon mtn bikes a lot, not so many with Alu
My old aluminum mtn bike has gone end over end a dozen times with no real damage. I wouldn’t want to risk that with a carbon bike.
Add to that carbon most often fails catastrophicaly without warning.
So carbon fiber are good granny bikes but for abuse Aluminum or steel.
@Kameron Black OK, post your bank account number
Yeah definitely gotta be a little more careful with it. I just learned that lesson pounding through a rock garden before I hearing a large "crack". Time to walk home with my cracked wheel.
It comes down to price really. I have a SantaCruz aluminum from 2013 with Shimano XT and Mavic wheels that I paid 500 dollars for, the same set up carbon can go to upward of 5000 dollars, it's up to you.
My Specialized carbon fiber road bike has Mavic rims very nice bike to ride.....
I still have my Vitus 21 tubing Motobecan ,,, and an Aluminum Mountain bike and I have a Specialized carbon fiber road bike,,,,my favorite bike is always the old 21 speed 27" Miche rims she's been so many miles for me and dude she is super fast.. never got rid of anything....
I have both alu and carbon cx and gravel bikes. Funny thing my alu giant with basic build spec is still much lighter than my carbon di2 bikes. But at the end of the day, they all bring a smile!
Do you prefer carbon or aluminum? Fatigue and vibration?
All things considered I'm going to stick with aluminum. Cheaper, lighter, recyclable. Maybe ti for a forever bike.
The guy putting the tubes together has a bigger impact on how the bike will ride than what the tubes are made of.
Yep, agree. This should be the starting and ending point on all these discussions.
❤ my 2016 GT PRO series 2 Aluminum frame w/carbon forks. Dura-Ace group set. Shimano 105 rim brakes. RITCHEY WCS full carbon seat post and a Selle Italia saddle . RITCHEY WCS Handlebar stem. Mavic rims wrapped in specialized TURBO tires. LOOK full carbon KETO Peter Sagan clip in pedals.
Very nice!
Of course, and I think that I can speak for everyone, I use a variety of materials for different bicycle applications. For World Championship Downhill I use a Carbon Fiber Composite Frame with steel bracing and Titanium swingarm and forks. For World Championship Enduro I prefer a steel frame with Carbon Fiber sub frame with Aluminum swingarm and a Boron Composite Fork. For World Championship Road Racing and Tour Le France I typically use a Carbon Fiber Composite Frame with Carbon Fiber Composite Forks. I prefer Titanium gusseting and TI bars, levers, and fasteners. For World Championship Endurance Racing I like an Aluminum Alloy Frame with Carbon Fiber Composite Skid Plate and Boron Composite Swing Arm and Forks. For greater comfort I prefer a Steel Subframe and Titanium water bottle holder. Anyway, those are my particular preferences. I'm interested in what others like too.
ur a laugh
Wow
Aluminum. I have been riding my Garry Fisher Cake 2 for years in the rocky mountains. Inspite of what some say, aluminum can be repaired. I would recommend some models carbon for the road.
Even on a road bike I can't trust carbon frames like it's been said the few gains on carbon frames don't out weigh the issues they come with in my book and I can get or build a great aluminum bike for less by far
And I would go titanium way before carbon too
So....
They are comparing carbon to steel?
Then reference aluminum as the alternative,
So you lost me right in the beginning,
Very unprofessional,
Carbon fiber has all types of Grades and weaves for different integrities.
Basically aluminum has a longer shelf life at half the expense,
Don't get caught up in the hype,
Your not a pro that gets a free bike every year, go aluminum.
Be smart,
Be safe
Going back to 2009ish
I weigh 235lbs, don’t pick clean lines, and do crash.
I’ve had 3 aluminum mtn bikes and 4 diff sets of aluminum wheels…all failed.
I’ve had 2 carbon mtn bikes and 2 diff sets of carbon wheels, both XC and Enduro…never failed.
No 2 riders are the same. No 2 crashes are ever the same. I’ve personally had much better performance and durability from carbon.
Never road a Carbon Fiber bike, I do have a couple Aluminum bikes and an couple old Steel Framed as well. The difference between the Aluminum weight vs the Steel is crazy, but I don't think the Carbon vs Aluminum weight difference is as dramatic.
My Giant Rapid III is my go to bike for long distance rides, did the 100 mile on that Aluminum Bike and love it. So guess I am a metal head, ROCK ON!
Yeah you’re an old bomer who has no idea what you’re talking about. 🤦♀️ In 1972 - an absolute boom in 10-speeds in the US - I bought the world’s lightest general production road bike. It wasn’t all that expensive. It weighed just under 21 lbs. (Came standard with silk sew- ups of course) It was a 100% steel frame. Reynolds 531 double- butted throughout. Reynolds 531 is
manganese-molybdenum, medium-carbon steel tubing. In the last 10 years I’ve had high end aluminum and carbon enduro mountain bikes. The difference between the two are significantly greater than the difference between steel and aluminum back in the day. Carbon enduros aren’t more advantageous in all ways but that’s a discussion for another day.
@@mrsmartypants_1 I'm glad you added "who has no idea what you're talking about" my Brother had a Peugeot and the things gearing and drive mechanism seemed way smoother than a lot of American bikes that I road. Back mid 70s. But mostly road dirt bikes like Penton, Husky and Bultaco and raced MX and Enduros. Like sawmill and forest hill. Many exotic materials and methods not seen today. Some boomers know a lot. Better learn before the technology is lost to time. Like Damascus Steel etc. Many emerging technologies and techniques have been done before. But Fear and Arrogance squash knowledge. lol They Won't even let them Race 500cc 2 strokes any more. Honda stopped around 2000. "Due to Environmental concerns". Now 2 strokes are running cleaner and are getting a few foots in doors. Ears are opening. Maybe that will bring back swedging and sweating of frame tubes. Titanium and Magnesium. One can only Dream. People only work from home now days. "C'mon Jack wanna do some pushups or go out back." lol better watch what you say to some boomers.
@@Macuhdohnadadoh steel frame must be bare bones. The suspension weighs that much. If MB
You probably haven’t ridden a modern top end steel frame bike. My steel bike is Reynolds 853 and is set up with high end components and only weighs 17 lbs. most entry level to mid level Alu bikes weigh as much or more and unless you’re racing the weight difference between a UCI minimum carbon bike and a high end steel bike is pretty meaningless at 2# when you factor in the weight of the rider. The main difference is the cost. You’ll pay significantly more for the Carbon bike to achieve a comparable ride quality of a high end steel bike and the Steel bike, properly maintained to prevent corrosion (easy enough to do) will last you far longer and be a better value purchase.
@@Macuhdohnadadoh Yup same here. My Raleigh International made with Reynolds 853 only weighs 4# and the ride quality is way better than Aluminum.
The bike you have and ride is the best
Well, I saw no Steel or Ti... True it was not in the title. Overall best material is likely Ti. But, it is very hard to weld correctly
You left out Titanium. I’m an old Litespeed lover. Or what about Kinesium? I like it as well.
+1 for Ti.
Had 1989 Aluminum Trek 1500 road bike. 22#. Did 3 cycle to the Sun on Maui sea level
to 10'000 feet. Down tube shifter's extremely
reliable did most climbing & downhill rode the crap out of that Trek 15 years Ultegra components. Tires, brake pads, cables, bottom bracket overhaul. Also quite tantalus mountain time trail climbs. Never had problem with the frame. Now retired got a Lemond aluminum carbon fork road bike & a
Fuji hybrid aluminum with disk brakes.. Both use to climb tantalus as it's near where I live.
Since I'm 72 years old like to ride the Fuji hybrid more comfortable esp. the downhill.
Cam climb faster on road bike but but it's not about speed anymore at my age.
Stay active that's great
If I accidentally click on this ad one more time I’m going to blow my brains out
Ignore this whole video I got a carbon fiber stump jumper that’s gone through hell and back so many times it’s practically got a citizenship there. If it’s well made carbon fiber it will be better than aluminum in every way but if it’s a lower end bike just get aluminum until ur ready to invest in something dope. Haven’t watched the vid either just putting this comment here for a quick sum up on them
As a welder, couldn’t you tig and grind an alu frame?
I’ve heard that the aluminum is too thin and difficult to properly repair usually
Burn your shop down aluminum burns nasty. Try getting the fire out. Funny they make ferry boats and recreational boats out of aluminum huh?
@@lesliepropheter5040 HELLO you are thinking of MAGNESIUM. In the 70s the Husqvarna factory caught on fire and couldn't be put out. Now they foam and other methods to deal with it.
Let’s stop about weight being such a big deal… I have a full carbon, but then I put on a water pak at about 2.5 pds full…. My next bike will be Al, due to pricing and longevity
Just got a nice steel frame . done with the anxiety carbon gives with crashes
@@staticx2552 steel? Steel is heavy and rusts. You mean aluminum?
@@reboundrides8132 depenss on the steel and if you choose to maintain your shit or not
Have a 2001 Cannondale aluminum which weighs less than my 2020 Cannondale SystemSix.
Aluminium forever. It CAN be hightec and lightweight.
Carbon fork and rear stays on AL take out the stiffness of an all AL frame. You can really get beat up on a longer tour with all AL
Titanium , where have they gone? why?
Can use carbon frame like those mountainpeak explore 4000 to be used in a bike trail, high jumps and stuff?
- sorry, just a newbie question
"You must choose wisely "- Yoda.
" you have chosen aluminum, and chosen correctly. May the force be with you. " - Yoda
Millennium Falcon had to have a refit of 7075 T-6 to repel enemy fire and withstand G forces of warp speed.
The old carbon fiber panels were too brittle
Must have missed this part in the movies 😂
@@theproscloset 😏👍
Love my CF Cloud 9
For me still is the best
Like other than. Frame set. Still is still beautiful
Interesting. There are a lot of info out there telling to be very careful with carbon fiber parts when applying force to it (e.g tightening a screw). it can cracks if you are not carefull. Aluminium is way forgiven on this.
sir, how much those will cost (manufacturing cost[labor, machine, etc])
As a consumer I am thinking first price point which puts me in the range of Alum over carbon. If I am a pro racing in events and weight means everything I am going full carbon.
Thats basically the bottom line.
You should check out a bike with a Reynolds 510 steel frame.
I have a Salsa mountain and a Canyon Road bike, both Carbon and there's no comparison for them in their class.
🙌
Carbon fiber vs. Aluminum ? I'll stick with my Titanium bike. Thx
If you have one. What's the weight on on it? Had a couple as well as some different friends over the years that had a several.
Don’t think titanium was an option in the carbon v aluminum
I have a newer Madone, SPEC. Allez and a Ritchey Road Logic steel. I mainly ride the Ritchey and a steel Salsa Gravel. Every carbon frame 8 broke. Non in a crash. I don't trust it so it stays on the Wahoo Zwift set-up. New steel. Has a sweet ride what I remember from the 70s . Classic frames look best to me. My Madone is ugly. Ritchey Dura Ace with Dura Ace deep carbon hoops. Whatever floats your boat. Just ride
Wait, why can't aluminium be repaired?
Couldn't you just weld it if it cracks?
Yes, it can be repaired. You are correct it can be welded.
Just weld and grind it, I’m a welder so I know this would work.
Engineer here: Aluminum and steel frames are often heat treated after they are welded. This is done to normalize after welding to soften the heat affected zone and then the rest of the frame is frequently heat treated again to harden the rest of the frame to improve fatigue resistance.
If you weld repair the frame, you'll also need to re-normalize and re-heat treat it.
@@brianwright9514 So not a home job then , unless you have an industrial kiln at home. 😂
@@freedomofmotion I wouldn't even trust a welding shop to do it right unless I could give them specific repair instructions from the frame designer.
Thank you guys it’s very helpful what you are doing. According to the environmentalists we have an overload of carbon.
If environmentalists weren’t so stupid they would realize that the same carbon is always here. Its only the form that changes. Maybe they should worry if carbon fiber is gluten-free or if whales eat aluminum frames or whatever is their lastest lunacy.
What are your thoughts on titanium?
Titanium is phenomenal, we're just focusing on the two most common materials in this vid.
Can you explain what you mean by carbon fiber is "repairable"? Everyone I know that had damaged carbon frame ended up with a useless frame. Another point you don't address is that carbon bike can more easily damaged during cold temperatures.
I would worry about carbon fibre, impact or fault in the manufacturing process could ruin your day.
I do use it in rc planes etc though and it's very impressive.
SIX13 FRAME I'M RESTORING & CAMPY BUILD. 20YEAR OLD CLASSIC.
Road-Al
Tri-Carbon
MTB-Al
BMX-Al
Beach cruiser-Steel
I have carbon fiber bikes trek MTB 29er in depends on you how to use ur carbon bikes.
I get a trifecta of riding enjoyment and material there made of ranging from my Felt Broam 30,Felt FR 30, the 2 being aluminum and I had to go carbon on a high speed performance experience in my Felt AR Advanced 105 Di2
Aluminum is great ! Feel the road , don’t have to been concerned about it falling apart on you !!!!
Carbon just feels sooo much better.
I prefer metal to canvas and glue.
It was good enough for the red barron.
The biggest thing for me is vibration. I had two bike, a Trek Madone (carbon) and a Specialized Allez (aluminum) with the same carbon seat posts, handlebars, and wheels and on same 28c tires and the Allez was more fatiguing because of the road buzz so I tend to grab the Madone most of the time.
Don't you think thats a bit over the top. Vibration lol. It's psychosomatic . It's been cool for 100 years but now it's a big problem? Common. And you can't fix carbon fiber
@@prestonhanson501 If you think that I’m the only person that feels that way, you must be new to carbon bicycles.
@@prestonhanson501 if you’ve never ridden a carbon fiber bike why are you talking
I can attest to this. Carbon is a joy on long rides.
I had the same problem with a tarmac, terrible road buzz beat you up on long rides. Went back to a steel master x Colnago
I have fixed several aluminum bike frames, I am a retired welder.
Great video. Easy to understand. Thanks.
Glad it was helpful!
Steel
I'm from Durango and I hear about this custom bike AND SEEN PICTURE S OF IT IN TOWN
prefer aluminum, with carbon forks, you get best of both worlds
Good combo 👍
Steel is real
So is carbon 😂
Considering the carbon fiber blades on the Mars aerial vehicle broke, I'm not so sure it's space age material.
It’s funny y’all used the space shuttle as a carbon fiber example, since the boosters were almost all aluminum 😁 people sell aluminum short
You know those carbonated water drinks will give you kidney stones
Thank you guys for this video! When you´ve had the opportunity to ride all your life you can say with certainty a lot of stuff, carbon is definitely much more comfortable, way much, IF you are a commited cyclist (ridingat least 10 hours a week or more), if you´re not that serious an alminum bike will work for you really sweet.
I was told I should get a steel bicycle because im 6ft 245 not fat.Hard pedaling and I can feel the bike twisting.I was told by more experienced cyclists.I really should really have steel?
I’ve been laying carbon fiber fabric with resin like how I would with fiberglass, I hope it’s strong
Carbon baby
it all comes down to $$. if money is not an object, carbon all the way. if not, aluminum is best suited for daily riders to endure the use and abuse in all weather and environment. carbon will be great for road or even fitness hybrid that are used in good weather/road condition.
Sometimes it is not about money it can also be about the different rides different materials offer a hi quality aluminum frame can be a blast try a specialized allez sprint even better if it is rim brake
I have a BMC team 29 aluminum. Rides like carbon.
If I was going to do any type of jumping, aluminum. But personal racing against myself with no jumps, carbon
2:14 DUDE! Show me how easily you can weld carbon fiber than aluminum! I have 20 years experience welding all of metals. So tell me what you mean "if you crack an aluminum frame or dent it really badly it's toast.."!!!
Had a second hand carbon . Broke it, just went to trash . And bought aluminum now . Will never go back . Feels perfect
I would buy carbon only new with warranty!!! Never used
Yeah buying carbon second-hand can be risky, unless it's inspected properly beforehand. Luckily all of our carbon bikes undergo exactly that so you can be assured in your bike's safety. But there's nothing wrong with riding aluminum, modern aluminum bikes are phenomenal!
I've broken a few bikes but since going to carbon I will never go back to anything else.
i saw a carbon fiber tandem break completely behind the head tube. They crashed pretty hard.
So the fact that carbon can be repaired wasn’t the main issue I suppose…hmmm…catastrophic failure you say….hmmm
@@tibbar1000 i bet aluminum wouldnt have broke. No repairs needed.
@@deathred3144 exactly
How about Titanium?
If you think CF is expensive, wait until you get the Ti bill.
@@paulm8269 😊 what kind of welding rods do they use titanium?
@@alanr4263 uhh let me guess bailing wire?
@@paulm8269Buying Titanium is like Buying a Rolls Royce if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it.
I might be in the minority but I prefer steel. Sure it’s heavier, but having the privilege of riding high end bikes of all varieties and materials, I have found that nothing beats the feel of a well made steel frame.
#steelisreal
How hard to get parts for this bike
It isn't really carbon fiber. It is carbon fiber reinforced plastic. Question then is, do you want a plastic bike?
well it depends who you're calling out... but high end bikes are the real deal. Same manufacturing process as Aerospace applications.
@@paulm8269 carbon fiber ii plenty strong. Just not impact resistant. I don't see it lasting as a wheel.
They need the same guy that sold the platic explosives idea. Sounds kind of boring till you call it Plastique
I got a carbon fiber mountainbike and a aluminium road bike. My next bike will be a steel gravel bike!
Niner RLT steel!
my next bike is an asphalt paver 😀
I hear galvanized pipe is the BOMB💥 wait this could be the wrong comment section. Achmed is that you?
@@bov5982 Huh?
My next bike will be a carbon bike yet again!
I love steel with a little carbon
I want a carbon frame for xc racing. Never thought I'd say it but my bike is "heavy" now 😆
I use mosso alloy frame, only 4 months want to upgrade seat post, saddle and handlebar with carbon. What are your opinions? Possible to speed up with power before upgrade?
How about 4130 buted molly old school huh? Just wondering what happened to that can you explain I'm an avid bike rider sence 12 yrs old
Frames are usually heavier and fairly expensive. Every bike I own except 1 is steel. Love the material, but man, a full suspension steel bike is just as expensive as carbon fiber.
Just discovered my new MTB had a carbon frame! Now I'm worried 😮 I'm not known for taking care of my gear 😅
Yeah, carbon fiber on mtb is kinda just a bad idea unless you only ride around on sidewalks or something.
Steel! Reynolds 853
#steelisreal
Great video, thank you!!
Glad you liked it!
“Aluminum is 1/3 the weight of steel”
What?…..
Obliviously you guys already know that there exists different compositions and chemical make-ups of steel and other alloys, not to mention the finished and treatments they may or may not recieve. This influences overall hardness, resistance to torsion and/or buckling, weight, and overall ride quality.
Why would you say something like this?
You didn't pay attention. They said it depends.
Steel weighs a lot more, it's also much stronger. It doesn't mean a steel bike weighs 3x as much. They just thin out steel since it's much stronger.
@@Steve-og3cr much of the 7000 grade aluminum alloy is right up there with steel. 7075-T6 is quite strong but can be to brittle depends on the application and environment to get the best alloy performance.
Steel vs titanium?
Don't forget about titanium. I've been riding my Litespeed Tuscany titanium bike for over 20 years.
🙌
Aluminum is not as reliant upon skilled labor as is carbon fiber layups. Who is making your carbon frame? Are the factory personnel actually skilled at carbon layup, or does the factory hire anyone who can roll a cigarette? Defective carbon frames are only detected with costly xray analysis or by outright failure. Aluminum is assembled by robot welding, and is relatively ez to inspect. Aluminum will almost always give plenty of warning prior to failure. Carbon most frequently fails catastrophicaly without warning. Carbon fiber begin to break down from the first use, and the pace of deterioration accelerates as the carbon/plastic matrix breaks down. Aluminium will not deteriorate unless it is deflected beyond its resiliency, potentially lasting indefinitely.
Work from home Carbon fiber molders don't have the proper equipment so you are going overseas where countries are on the edge of revolt. Asia is going to be a powder keg in the near future. Might try some African countries.
I run a galvanized steel frame with carbon rims and a banana dropper post seat 😎
Me too galvanized pipe and elbows. Got the plans off that Three Stooges show where Curly threads himself into a maze of pipes.🙊🙉🙈......... Hey Mo!!!
I’ve only ridden aluminum and steel and can’t feel a difference in vibration. I can’t afford carbon and have never ridden one but I’m pretty sure I won’t notice a difference in vibrations.
Try riding 100 miles. You'll definitely feel it.
Why the most cyclist which use carbon bikes they don't cycling often the winter months? I am all around year cyclist and very rarely see carbon bikes in winter months?
I am old school. My preference is Chromoly frames
Steel is Real
What about environmental impacts of manufacturing and the ability to be recycled ?
Fair point! However, carbon frames can be repaired whereas aluminum frames cannot, theoretically extending the life of a carbon frame further and allowing more use. That's the great thing about Certified Pre-Owned bikes, there's no additional environmental impact due to manufacturing since we're extending the bike's life!
All carbon fiber and the resin deteriorates over time making it weaker than aluminum. No matter how cool you made it sound. If I'm wrong how many old (over 10 years) carbon frames do you see people riding? Exactly
Modern carbon fiber is far superior to its predecessors. Most major manufacturers even offer a lifetime warranty on their carbon frames now. It also depends on how well taken care of the bike is and the conditions of where it's stored.
Carbon Fiber road bike. Aluminum mountain 🚵♂️ bike.
Aluminum all the way. I’m not dropping $$$ on a carbon bike that rivals the cost of a used motorcycle.
I mean that shop in the UK that repairs carbon bikes said in one video that he’s repaired 14k Carbon bikes! Seems to risky cost wise
Truth is that carbon breaks more often than aluminium. I see much more carbon frames broken these days, than aluminium, when it was the most popular material.
Carbon is king!
@@Leo-gt1bx has its place, but not in my backyard xD Carbon here sweeps the leaves with a broomstick hazel xD
That was agood topic on bike frames the pros & cons that suits your needs on frame choices thanks for sharing yourvideo for all to watch peace out in paradise from honolulu hawaii aloha
🙌 🤘
I’ve welded cracks on aluminum downhill frames. And they’re still being ridden. Aluminum can be repaired…
After you repair it, you'd have to heat treat it to 570-800 degrees to get it back to original strength. Tell me what you'd have to do to repair it? I wish the Spencer & Bruce didn't say it's not repairable, because they are, it's just that they are not practical to repair, that's what makes them irreparable.
@@paulm8269 plus the fact that they did such a poor video makes me leary of any advice. I am a welder and agree a fab shop may save your vacation but wouldn't be jumping anything. And take out of service after trip. Your 570-800 seems high to me but it has been a while since welding Aluminum and new alloys have come a long way. I expected a carbon fiber mold and some extruded Aluminum not a rolled up piece of paper. Might as well rolled a joint. Would have gotten more out of it.
@@bov5982 570-800 are the actual temps .. depending on a few factors.
@@paulm8269 is the welding and heat treating done inside a chamber? Had some different parts made before from Titanium and they had to be welded with these gloves and a special window like a bead blaster. plus a hood. Then the mirror welding where everything is bassackwards.
Cool video!
Thanks!