Buy a Daccordi, built completely based on your own spec's. I have a Daccordi with campagnolo super record electronic and rim brakes. Got it yesterday 4/23/24, going riding now.
You guys have done quite a few bike fit videos from varying fitters, and now AI. I’d really like to see you get a bike fit done by 3 or 4 reputable fitters and compare numbers, and then at the end, put them all in a room and have them explain what they see vs another. If possible, all in same day, to rule out any day to day changes that happen.
@@gcntechi would really like to see this as I am very dubious on the varying quality of bike fitters ive dealt with and it puts you off this costly expense.
In Sydney, Australia the store that has this idmatch system costs $450 for a fit. Unfortunately that’s a lot of money that could be spent on an actual bike.
It in a big expense. As Ollie mentioned in the video for those that are spending big money on a new dream bike this bike fitting service will mean that they get the best bike possible. If you are looking to spend less on the bike perhaps going for a level of fit that fits your budget is a good idea. Even just talking to your local bike shop should mean you get a product that fits you better.
If $450 is too much an expense to assure you that you’ve gotten your fit and size dialed in, I’d recommend changing to a cheaper sport. Have you considered jogging? All you need is a shoe, and even then, some find that optional too.
As a professional bikefitter, we have been preaching the gospel of fit first, buy later for decades. I like your selle italia electronic bike but I’m still not quite sure what the AI is doing. I haven’t read all the comments, but did anyone mention that the fitting machine didn’t even have brake hoods! Unless you’re a track cyclist, the primary hand position should be a the hoods/brake levers. The fitting machine should also have telescoping handlebars to determine ideal handlebar width and adjustable crank arm lengths. Ollie also needs a wider stance width on his left foot as I’ve noticed his knee tracks laterally on that side on previous GCN videos. But great that you finally mentioned this concept that riders should fit first and buy second as it does save money in the long run.
Correction: 99% of cyclists do not have access to this machine. A bike fitting should be included with the price of a bike and be offered in every bike shop for every bike.
And we live in a world where many bike manufacturers still recommend bike sizes based on rider height and inseam and many local bike shops are still using distance between your crotch and the top bar while standing on the ground. It's no wonder that for many their first bike is also their last.
My LBS recently did a renovation that included adding a pair of bike fit stations (nowhere near as advanced as idmatch, tho), and they told me that a bike fit would be part of every bike purchase there.
With two herniated discs in my lower back, I HAVE to get an endurance position and then some, plus I run slightly shorter cranks too. No flush stems for me anymore.
Bike fit while only riding in the drops? How does that make any sense when one spends at least 80% of time on the hoods…. I thought the bar would be changed for a bar with hoods for the more endurance position but nope… Machine learning can be a great tool, but you have to ask the right question….
@@GCNuser123what if you have a back problem, or just not flexible..does the system take this in account? If, how? …also, different handlebars have different drop and reach.
I wish manufacturers let you pick your components a la carte. I fit a size 58 Trek Domane and had to swap out the handlebars for 40cm ( stock was 44) and am planning on getting shorter cranks eventually ( Stock is 175mm). I should have been able to make those choices at time of purchase, at a minimum with the same component level, possibly same or optional upgrade to a higher level, and then they could assemble my bike.
There are many custom builders out there, that are usually also master bike fitters 👌 they will measure you, talk to you about your wishes and needs, and build your wished bike (Domane in your case) so it fits you perfectly (way better than IDMatch and similar system). It will probably also not cost you much more than it.
Great stuff! Unfortunately, until such tech (or similar) becomes a standard in every bike shop (for free or with minimal charge), it remains only an interesting curiosity to me.
It can be expensive to get a bike fit but we would advice people to factor it into their bike purchase. A well fitting bike will change your riding experience.
@@gcntech, I haven't meant my post as an accusation. I only meant I'm on a low budget, hence for me, this is just an interesting curiosity, I can't afford anyway. But I'm pretty sure bike fitting is a good thing, and if someone is already buying a bike for more than 2500 euros, I guess one may consider counting in bike fitting as well. My new bike, which I bought last year was only about 1000 euros. This was an equivalent to my monthly salary, so... you know. If someday a bike fitting will become more widely available to low-budget cyclists, I would be glad to use the offer.
My custom made travel bike has been constructed after I had been measured on one of these fitting machines; however that was a long time ago and they weren't that higtech at the time. My bike fits me like a glove.
@@alexm9479 Bikes have 3 contact points: saddle, paddles and handlebars. It's a simple triangle for good’s sake, and even more so, you fix one of the points out of three beforehand. It is trivial to mathematically prove that you don't need AI to compute optimally the other 2 points. You don't even need a fancy recording system that captures live all the angles. All you need is properly placed 10$ camera and simple video analysis. What AI or any high-tech system can't really give you is reaction to your feedback. What now they are doing is replacing the trained human expert, with a low-level technician who enters tweaks based on your feedback into the machine. Speaking in simple terms, they replaced a specialist doctor with a nurse and a computer. Would you trust that kind of approach if it was your actual health on the line???
A physiotherapist specialist bike fit was brilliant for me. Changed my saddle to pedal dynamics and my reach and stack height to get rid of some lingering pain and power transfer losses.
Since the bottom bracket is a fixed point you can alter all the other stuffs but you have to keep in mind that they are all levers so even small increase/decrease can make a difference in how the bike feels. A bigger frame with a shorter stem can have, theoretically, the same meseaures of a smaller frame with a longer stem but the riding experience will be different.
I'm nominally a 54 on a bike with more relaxed geometry but I also fit a 56 with a more aggressive geometry. Long torso allows me to adopt a lower position. It would be nice if you could swap out fit components (stem, handlebar width, saddle, crank length) at the time of bike purchase with like components at no extra cost so you aren't forced into buying a bike package that doesn't fit you from the start. It'd save the average consumer money and trouble later on. I'm aware custom builds exist (Trek Project One $$$) but I'd like that option on a workhorse alloy 105 bike.
It's a great point! Many brands and shops do offer this service, buying a bike from the shop is a great way of getting the correct sizing 🙌 You may not be able to get a full fit but minor adjustments and the in person expertise can go a long way.
Years ago, I went through a similar process at my local bike fitter before selecting my bike. They steered me toward a frame geometry from a brand that suited my unconventional short crank requirements. The setup involved just a basic looking fit bike and some video motion capture, yet it proved to be effective.
I think that the key point is to consider getting a pro bike fit that uses an adjustable bike-emulation machine before buying a bike. Both my wife and I are in the middle of a fitting where the fitter used mechanical device, similar in concept to the one in the video but with manual dials and levers, to dial it to fit our dimensions. He also used devices to measure our sit bones and shoe sizes. So this cost $200 each (was $150 last year), and the conclusion was that we both had bought bikes that were too big. My wife found her entry-level Specialized gravel bike to be too uncomfortable to ride more than 10 miles, but after getting new handle bars, stem, grips, and a seat with proper set up she is now riding without pain. Perhaps investing in a bike fit first could have saved us the extra $400 in new bike parts for her $750 bike. Still waiting on parts for my road bike…
A bike fit is a great way to get the most out your machine! Factoring the price into buying a bike will mean you can really fully enjoy your riding. Great to hear that your wife is now loving her bike, this is what it's all about 🙌
I am a heavy rider and because of that, I can't fit like the typical rider. However, that doesn't stop me from riding. I tend to stay away from carbon because most have weight limits that I don't meet, but as far as geometry, what I tend to do is get a bike with an uncut fork, a high rise stem usually somewhere around 17 degrees, as well as putting spacers under the stem. I do not use all in one stem/bars as I am not in that market and I would be better served by loosing 10lbs than spending that kind of $$. Also, depending on the bike, I may also choose a seatpost with some layback. I have also been tinkering with cranks that are a tad shorter than ships with the bikes. I have been opting for 170 or 165 and these help keep my knees out of my stomach which helps a lot. Now, I know I am not your typical cyclist, but if anyone is having these issues you may want to try some of these solutions. The idea of having a long reach with a higher stack height is not new to me, it is something I have been doing for more than a decade now and am very comfortable with.
Which is exactly why I went to Vires. Every other bike I looked at would’ve needed some adjustment and that’s not cheap these days with one piece bar/stems. Recommended.
I appreciate that for the endurance fit it raised your handlebar without shortening the reach. Most riders can manage sitting a little bit higher without having to scrunch their spinal columns.
@@izi941 It seems to be hard to access and rather flawed system. I went out of my way to try it and I would not do it again, nor recommend it to anyone.
Being stupidly tall (2.03m), it's surprisingly easy to choose a bike: "I'll just take the biggest bike you have, thanks!" In all seriousness, a lot of manufacturers (cough cough Ribble, cough cough) build really small bikes and XL is only 58cm fitting folk up to 190cm. It's pretty annoying.
It is and it's standard. Every ID Match place uses those (I know this because I got a fit and asked). Not sure if this is a a sign of quality or reassuring in any way haha
the xbox kinect sensor holds so much potential. even a decade ago, we were able to use multiple sensor bars with software on pc's to 3d map rooms and play spaces for motion capture games for kids.
My bike fitter spent 2 hours assessing fitness, strength, flexibility and asymmetries before I got on the bike, 8ncluding teaching and practising a set of strength and stretching exercises to improve the situation. He also sees bike fit as an evolutionary process and the initial fee includes quarterly return visits to tweak position and exercises as you improve. There's a lot of great use of AI and I'm in the IT business, but it still needs to be in the hands of an experienced human who can assess these things that the AI can't measure.
The jig not lighting up like a Tron Lightcycle irritated me more than it should! Ending up with some bikes you can actually get and ride is so much better than just being given the measurements and left to figure it out for yourself
GCN for old folks like me who, over the years, have smashed bits of their bodies in biking accidents and other sports accidents, comfort is key. The only thing of interest to me on this video was the idea that raising a bike's stack should be kept separate from shortening the reach. With two head on collisions to my 'credit' my neck is jiggered. I will experiment with longer reach but raised stack in an endeavour to remove serious neck pain post 30 miles. Thanks John.
The big bike makers (eg Canyon, Trek, Spec'd etc) don't help themselves inasmuch as they offer no choice of stem, bar width, crank length etc on a new bike (even though car makers have allowed you to pick options like cody colour, trim colour etc for decades and this info was used to build the car). So because I didn't want to waste money on a new bike to find I had to change out the stem, bars and chainset as soon as I got it (a waste of money and my time), I just bought a good, second hand Colnago frame and built it up myself. But I didn't feel inclined to pay high prices to have to change out the kit I didn't want - the bike brands don't help themselves.
Well it's cheaper thats why they do it. On the other hand you cannot even buy a different cockpit for an canyon ultimate nowadays, they won't offer (I asked myself). Handlebarwidth can be adjusted but no way to change the stem lenght.
iDMatch was awesome for me when I did it last year and I take the results with me for any bike I get set up for - Was ideal for when I did my dream build!
Very few brands give you any choice now on component changes. You get what you get or you have to pay the shop to get and install a replacement the right size.
Selle Italia SLR Boost... legendary saddle. It came standard on my Canyon Aeroad and, 2,000 miles later, I've never ever thought about it. I mean, my body has never produced pain or pressure points pointing to the saddle.
Nice idea. Then try getting the vendor of the $15,000 bike to adjust the standard stem or crank or… anything at all. Some manufacturer is going to win a lot of market share when they actually focus on the customer and fix that problem.
I don’t see the point? How many of us have access to this IDMatch? Us mere mortals must trust our local bike shops to recommend the best bike, although sometimes the bike shop will say what they want to sell a bike.
The point is to make a sponsored video of an interesting alternative. Idk about you but I regularly watch things that involve something I don’t readily have access to
Take this specific fitting system out of the equation - actually investing in a bike fit can help you understand how well your current bike fits, and what changes might be appropriate. That then gets you more informed about what frame size might fit you best, and what other tweaks might be needed on a bike you’re considering. I’ve definitely been caught before where the dealer was more interested in selling me the bike they still had in stock on the floor, rather than try to track down the right size bike I should have had…
It depends on how additional data flows into the machine learning, like flexibility from an anamnese, comfort/discomfort feedback during the fit and afterwards. Plus: The potential of those systems is very high. Minus: But it also could lead to less professional fitting persons standing by these systems.
Bought an XL canyon ultimate CFR (at 6’3”, I need 830mm from the bb to top of saddle and 610mm from the nose of the saddle to the centre of the bars) For some reason canyon made the fit on those bikes much more hunched up. Having spent nearly 11k on the bike, had to spend another €500 on a saddle pillar with layback and a longer stem section. Very very unhappy with it.
So how did you get a different stem? Canyon nowadays only has one piece handlebars (which can be adjusted in width but not lenght). They don't sell different Stems or cockpit for the ultimate
@@danielwaldner7121 I contacted Canyon about both issues, the seat post that was too steep and the stem that was too short. They sold me a 120mm long stem centre piece to that integrated handlebars, which I then installed (about €350 if I remember correctly). The drops sections slide out and are then installed back into the new stem section once all of the cables are rerouted through the new fitting. They don't advertise that these parts are available but if you contact them through their website, they'll sell them to you. Note: the one I took off is a 110mm, so if that's the one you need I have one with very limited mileage on it.
I am one of those people who is often in the middle of sizes. Most recent bike i went up, next time I'll definitely go down and adjust with a longer stem or seat adjustment if i need to
my height is 166cm. i rode on a frame of top tube at 505mm, seat tube at 450mm with a seatpost 25 degree offset, stem 90mm. i changed to a frame of shorter top tube at 496mm, seat tube 440mm, stem +-75mm, non-offset seatpost...overall length is about +-4cm shorter. vola! i m better off and did not feel overstretch! our body tends to lean much forward naturally and more energy efficient in pedalling when speeding up
I am 186cm, fairly proportioned arms/legs, and 90kg. From where I live, I have no access to such machine whatsoever & probably the cost of such bike-fit is much higher than I would plan to spend in comparison to my bike price budget (btw, was it mentioned how much this session costs, round figure?) so I ordered new bike on-line, based upon the measurements of previous bike and my bike-fit knowledge. So, same as Ollie, the previous was 56 and wanting more comfort (not much interested about high speeds or breaking power records) I choose 57 (Orbea Orca has L on 55, which I could get, for more aero/speed...) so now I find the reach a bit too long, I changed the stem to 1cm shorter. More or less, I got the same result as what the machine got for Ollie. Did I make the right decision? If not, this would be my mistake... !
Opinion from someone who had his bikefitting done with exactly this system, and works in the AI field. It is great, but: - Being AI accuracy is heavily based on the sample size. If only few stores still have them then it will grow quite slowly, undermining the self-improvement factor of the model. Still it can be great and this is the direction the industry should be going - There is an interesting feature that allows you to correct your position based on the pain you are currently feeling on certain areas on a 1-10 scale. On my end, it overcompensated knee pain quite much putting the seatpost so high I could lock the full leg when on the extended part of the movement, making me rock on the sides quite much. My feeling is that it still needs a bit of improvement especially when facing problematics that may not be bike-dependent but health-dependent - The human factor is still important: AI does not substitute the knowledge and experience of an attentive bikefitter. The person not once asked me how the position felt, not even after setting up the bike in the target position. He was actually surprised when I asked "can I try the bike" Bottom line: it is a powerful tool but only in the hands of competent personnel, with full awareness of the underlying model and with a background in sports-science. It's the minimum you can ask when paying €150-200+ for a bike-fit
You can go to Marinoni for $90 they'll measure you up on their adjustable bike. They won't change your fit but will measure up the fit you find comfortable.
yeah all well and good. I have some biomechanics training and experience on the bike. My feeling is that automated bike fitting produce weird results because the underlying algorithm is reflecting current point of view in the industry. The "AI" is basically leveraging a bigger database and returning a probable fit, based on many samples. I don't think there is a feedback loop about the long term success of the fit, because people are usually going to a different fitter if thery're not happy. I'm not surprised it suggests a bigger frame. It's acookie cutter approach. No matter how many metrics you're going to capture, if the underlying assumptions are limited, the results will be unsatisfactory. The fitting is done on handleabars without the shifters which bitered me. I know you can adjust for that, but it changes a lot how you interact with the handlebars and the position. Again, not surprised that the system suggested a bigger frame. My fit is optimised for riding on the hoods first and foremost. BTW, I love my Selle Italis SLR boost saddles too. I'm 177 cm and ride road bikes (if you look at traditional geometry) with 53 top tube, 11 cm stem + 7 cm reach bar, zero offset saddle and 165 mm cranks. I also slam my stem, because of my monkey arms. I tried bigger frames, I can ride them okay, but all feel like riding a barn door. Much less agility, weight balance is off, and my position relative to the pedals is less optimal. Whatever bike charts suggest is between 54 or 57, too big.
Best fit i had was by Pete Matthews (master wheel builder) in the mid to late 80's when buying a new bike from him. He had had a jig built and the methodology was in principle the same, way ahead of his time. Had a few bikes from him, handbuilt and fitted like a Saville Row suit.
My local bike shop does exactly that, although I don't know what tech they use. They start with a bike fit and then can tell you what models they have that would be good for you. I know bike fits make a big difference as in my case it stopped a shoulder and neck issue from being unbearable. Next 'serious' money bike I buy will be after a bike fit.
The very sad thing is that most bike manufacturers still sell race bikes with 42cm (and even 44cm) handlebars that you can swap but mostly at a price. The first thing I did was change my handlebar from 42cm to 38cm and throw a perfect bar tape in the bin (It shred in pieces just by removing it). If only bike manufacturers would build to order in the factory or leave the fine tuning to the shops...
@@izi941I don't know. They fit 170mm cranks in small sizes, 175mm in big sizes and 172.5mm in between. This while people either go for 175 mm (the tall ones), the informed ones go for 170mm and the ones who don't know go for 172.5mm. The middle ground in crank length and handlebar width for road racing simply isn't there.
Doesn't convince me. People keep forgetting the human body is adaptable, not static in any way. You can get a fit in any way, shape or form but maybe 1 month later, depending if you get fitter or adapt to the position, everything could need a tweak. Selling a bike fit as a quick band-aid solution is dishonest.
Or also flexibility, prior injuries/problems, extreme riding styles (either crit/aggressive, or ultramarathon comfy),….I presume? I think it’s more a good sales person alternative rather than to a bike fitter.
My bike shops is small 3 generation family owned, they do have new fancy expensive bikes but also great used ones . But sadly no fitting computer machines, clerk just eyeballs your size he picks a bike and u test ride he adjusts, you ride and you pay when it feels right... Its a chillax place i look for reasons to stop by and browse see which bikes come and go
The sizes come in 2cm jumps but there is enough adjustment on the bike to make it fit you perfectly. I do wish they'd change cranks lengths more though. 165 upto 52's, 170 on 54-56, 172.5 on 58-60 and 175 on 60+. We weren't designed to sit for hours on a bike, so there is actually no 'perfect' size.
I generally always have to change the Stem and Handlebars as they come with a 90 or 100mm stem and I run 120, and handlebars are 42 with a 80 to 90 reach, where I run a 40 and slightly shorter reach between 70 and 75.
Buy a Daccordi, i just got mine, 100% built to my size from scratch. I got it with Super record electronic derailers and get this rim brakes and i still have the thumb button. I didn't want disc, rim brakes easy maintenance. Cost? Less than a 1/3 of a brand new Cervelo R5. Daccordi is the last of Family made bikes in Italy.
I wish that database was made publicly available (for a fee of course). There are only two idmatch locations I can find in Germany; both hours and hours from me :( As a 193cm tall rider; I'd love to know, in general terms, what the correct SuperSix size is for me.
Don’t bother. Go to a custom builder, he’ll take your measurements, build the bike of your choosing (from frame to every bolt) and after it fit the bike for your needs. It will fit you much better than IDMatch and similar systems (there are many, IDMatch also isn’t a new thing), especially if you have any physical limitations (pain whilst cycling, previous damages to the body etc.)
This is all well and good, but manufacturers don't allow you to swap parts. You have to make the changes by purchasing wider saddle, longer/shorter stems etc after shelling out for your chosen bike.
For AI models like these you usually feed it initial data likely from paid volunteers with supervision from an actual bike fitter to guide it. After you have enough data it should be ok for customers to use, the only difference really is the initial customers will have a bikefit that's more or less correct while subsequent customers will have more precise adjustments given.
The fit is still overseen by a human bike fitter. And we’re talking about millimeters. You could wear a different pair of shoes or a thicker chamois that would deviate from your “perfect fit” more than the margin for error in iterations of AI learning.
I bike hills more often than flat ground. I’d want it at an angle of maybe 30degrees.. near the point where center of gravity makes the rear wheel almost a unicycle.. that’s where I need power, endurance , and balance at the various dimensions. A bigger bike without fixed feet gives you these.
Im 5ft 11.5" & both of if my road bikes are 56cm frames, although one if them has a longer stem, but i dont tend to ride that one on my longer rides, so it suits shorter 1-2 hour blasts around the local lanes.
Attention still needs to be made to cleat position which isn't covered by this machine Plus overall biomechanics, strength and flexibility which change over time due to training and detraining.
@@andrewmcalister3462 the system just matches the cleat the 1st metatarsal position but i do I like how it takes into account pronation but it's still ballpark stuff. Hopefully the operator will be able to identify ankle drop and knee tracking, varus, valgus, leg length.
yeah it's not a bad device measuring, width pronation and meta tarsal@@GCNuser123 for a good starting point. However i would like to see Q-factor, varus, vulgus, knee tracking, leg length and arch height. Cleats are important as saddle in my opinion.
this is really cool and all and i get that instead of paying so much in parts to replace and all that you can pay for a one time fit to find out but i feel like people dont get how expensive this would be. its around 300 dollars for the fit itself and i can imagine its not everywhere, so you'd also have to pay to travel to wherever you can get an idmatch bike fit. it just makes it kinda hard to justify it when i could probably get it done for much cheaper
I bought a Trek Domane in 54 cm, and always felt uncomfortable riding it. Swapped to an 80 mm stem, and 170mm cranks and the bike is much better now. The relaxed geometry helps. I purchased a Madone the next year in size 52 cm, and it fits like a dream.
I had the same problem with my previous bike Emonda (2021), size 56. Trek has a similar frame reach to the others, but they use a longer bar reach. In my case it was 100 mm stem + 100 mm bar reach. Others typically use a 100 mm stem with 70-80 mm bars in 56. Buying a Zipp SL70 Aero bars solved my problem perfectly. For the last 2 years they have been using shorter bars on some models.
The topic is bike fitting! Not feeling comfortably without any info about preset values and changes being made. Could be so many variables that leads to you now feeling fine.
It'd be great if gcn did a accuracy comparison on online bike fit sites with physical fits like this. Unfortunately, I'm not in 0.0001% of gcn viewers that can afford a 'proper' fit. Having been off the bike for a few years, my old settings were causing serious discomfort. With an extra 4" around the waist and seriously unfit, I found an online site that took my new body size and existing bike then recommended changes. Have to say, it's been pretty accurate. Saved a millennia of time tweaking stuff myself. Not entirely discomfort free, but better by considerable degrees.
Probably extrapolate from the position he's in. That's what machine learning algos are really good at. Which shows, since it picked the correct bike fit for ollie.
@@rnediscyeah, but the hand/wrist position is different. Also makes the feeling in the shoulders different 🤷♂️ with a normal, flexible, long time biker all ok, but for a beginner or someone with problems a big difference in data. I think this machine is really just to choose stock bike, that you afterwards bring to a proper bike fitter
The biggest mistake people make when buying a new bike is buying a NEW bike. There’s so many good bikes out there for a fraction of the price if you know where to look. I just bought a $12,000 specialized S works tarmac for 900 bucks fitted with zip 400s and it looks practically brand new. Only thing I did was change the bearings, which also looked perfect, and it rides like a dream
I don't have a very expensive bike but if I were to get one I would definitely have a pre-purchase bike fit to give me the right parameters to aim for.
Bike fitting make sense if you can ride at least an hour on that machine, since biomechanical issues surface after different time in different individuals due to the body ability to compensate before serious pain appear.
I am finding it hard to know the difference sizes. For example, bike sizing is different from the UK and USA according to many articles. I also have been informed by many conversations and articles that due to the geometry, you need the size down for a TT bike from your road bike. I.e. of you ride a Medium you will require a Small framed TT bike. Please advise me further. Would appreciate GCN answering these questions on the Tech Show. Thanks in advance to all.
Hi, thanks for the comment. We know what you mean with regards to sizing, it can be a confusing task. Fortunately these days most manufacturers have become great with this by giving recommendations on bike size depending on your height. However, there are always some variations and it's not a guarantee that your height, is going to give you the match for a frame size. It's worth looking at the diagrams/geometry charts of the bikes you are interested in, and compare it to your current bike to see which is the closest match. And of course, not forgetting your local bike shop who should be able to help out with regards to fitting and sizes. The TT bike is a good question, in theory if you ride a medium sized road bike, you should ride a medium sized TT bike too.
@gcntech greatly appreciate the response. I'll dive into this more and speak with a local tt club and with my local bike shop. Keep on pedalling. Have a wonderful day.
Would be interesting to see what results the machine gave me. I ride a 65cm canyon with an upwards pointing stem and a saddle height of 952mm. May be worth the £300 to be told it’s only the 64cm roubaix or maybe a 2xl canyon endurace and nothing else.
99% of us don't ride for a living but for fun. Bikes are adaptable. Humans are adaptable. The "dangerous consequences" are not that dangerous. Panic over.
i bought a Canyon. they suggested a M. Which i got. I then adjusted all the components to feel comfy. cant be any more difficult than that --also makes sense to raise stack for a longer ride. That what my brain would think. You never said how much it costs to get a bike fit. also id have to throw in airfare from vancouver and hotel.
1. AI is machine learning. AI is just a marketing term. AI knows nothing. 2. Sure, the fit works for those near the mean, but what about atypical fits? 3. What is an "optimal road bike" position? There is no such thing. Optimal is a function of rider preferences and what a rider wants to do. Optimal is a subjective choice based on arbitrary criteria. You guys make some interesting claims in your tech....er...."promotional" videos.
Thanks Dr O and crew...yeah , aint nobody got one !! I bet everybody would do this , if it were affordable and convenient . Yeah....knowledge is power.
Pinarello advert this time, no? The one from three years ago was more of a Canyon ad (and had more detail IIRC - ruclips.net/video/MzrRztl6HWg/видео.html)
Great info Ollie/GCN. It would be interesting to know which bike fitters throughout the UK have this system! There must be more than one? It would also be interesting to know if the Algorithms/Ai can adapt for disabilities? As I recently found out trying to compensate for a disability can lead down a rabbit hole. It's taken me 18 months to find a position that fits. When I buy my next bike I'd like to know beforehand which bike and position suits me best. Thanks guys👍
I’d say this is more an alternative to a good/fair sales person rather than a good bike fitter. I presume those machines are found at shops, not at fitters.
@@izi941 if you watched the film there was actually a bike fitter there. The thing about the algorithm is (as stated also in the film) the more data it gets the better it can give you advice. And that's all it is, advice! At the end of the day if you want pay for a quality bike fit then go away and change something you can. It's all about finding you a bike from the shelf that will give you a "comfortable" ride. Most of the time people go to bike fitters with the bike they've already bought. As I stated, before I hand over a lot of money for my next bike I'd like to know which one is gonna give me the most comfort. I've been to a bike fitter, how many bike fitters do you think understand my disability and what issues it brings while riding. Basically, the more information I have before I hand over my cash the better. 👍😊
Thanks for the video! I personally can't bring myself to spend thousands on a bike. I do appreciate a bike that fits me. I changed my stem to a shorter and more upright one. And moved my saddle forward 3 cm. The bike feels much better. I'm looking for compact bars 70 reach and 122 drop like Simon's. Do you know the brand he uses?
If bike shop owners actually cared for the people to get the right fit for the buyer they’d offer a bike fit that was inexpensive. My old bike shop used to charge $200 unless you bought a bike from them then it was $150. I’m pretty sure if they charged $50 they’d get more business.
“Tell me that you’re sponsored by Selle Italia without telling me that you’re sponsored by Selle Italia.” My nearest place charges $500 for this bike fit, and I will come out with numbers I still need to figure out to match what’s on the market. That’s a lot of money. And I still might need to get a professional fit on my bike to get all of the parts dialed in.
Interestingly after my fit I shortened stem and cranks and tweaked position but after some time and subsequent fits I’m back to my original stem albeit in a much lower position.
Yeah, I remember looking this up several months back when they had a video, and the closest one to me in the US would have been about a 16-hour drive. Pass. LoL.
I’d select the Pinarello too, then they’d give me the bill and I’d walk out with a Carrera. Love watching this kind of content because we all dream of having our dream bike.
Probably the cheapest sensor they could get with some 3d photogrammetry capabilities. We use kinect quite a bit when I was doing some robotics work for a certain project.
🤔What is the biggest mistake you've made when buying a bike?
Let us know 👇
How tall is Ollie?
@@mcaxzni
They've consistently spelt "length" incorrectly in that software.
Not buying belt drive
99% of all GCN videos are filled with made up statistics by their PhD scientist. (Approximately).😄
99% of riders don't have access to this tech. 😐😐
😂😂😂😂 exactly man
Where are you?
Brazil!
@@rcworld6936
Seven locations in Brazil.
Buy a Daccordi, built completely based on your own spec's. I have a Daccordi with campagnolo super record electronic and rim brakes. Got it yesterday 4/23/24, going riding now.
You guys have done quite a few bike fit videos from varying fitters, and now AI. I’d really like to see you get a bike fit done by 3 or 4 reputable fitters and compare numbers, and then at the end, put them all in a room and have them explain what they see vs another.
If possible, all in same day, to rule out any day to day changes that happen.
i agree! would be great to see the differences from
different systems and fitters.
Exactly...
@@GCNuser123 the Royal Rumble of bike fitters?! 🤼♂
@@gcntechi would really like to see this as I am very dubious on the varying quality of bike fitters ive dealt with and it puts you off this costly expense.
bikefit james is the one to go
In Sydney, Australia the store that has this idmatch system costs $450 for a fit. Unfortunately that’s a lot of money that could be spent on an actual bike.
That's insane. Only makes sense for the pro's, and discourages everybody else from getting a fit which could greatly enhance their cycling enjoyment.
It in a big expense. As Ollie mentioned in the video for those that are spending big money on a new dream bike this bike fitting service will mean that they get the best bike possible. If you are looking to spend less on the bike perhaps going for a level of fit that fits your budget is a good idea. Even just talking to your local bike shop should mean you get a product that fits you better.
If $450 is too much an expense to assure you that you’ve gotten your fit and size dialed in, I’d recommend changing to a cheaper sport. Have you considered jogging? All you need is a shoe, and even then, some find that optional too.
You don't need all of this. @@87togabito
@@87togabitonaahh this approach is so stupid we aint driving formula cars its a bike, 450 is too much just to find the size of it
As a professional bikefitter, we have been preaching the gospel of fit first, buy later for decades. I like your selle italia electronic bike but I’m still not quite sure what the AI is doing. I haven’t read all the comments, but did anyone mention that the fitting machine didn’t even have brake hoods! Unless you’re a track cyclist, the primary hand position should be a the hoods/brake levers. The fitting machine should also have telescoping handlebars to determine ideal handlebar width and adjustable crank arm lengths. Ollie also needs a wider stance width on his left foot as I’ve noticed his knee tracks laterally on that side on previous GCN videos. But great that you finally mentioned this concept that riders should fit first and buy second as it does save money in the long run.
Where you located?
So basically, this is an advert with a clickbait title. Besides, it seems like many of the comments are bought.
So salty. So pathetic.
Mine is bot
yup 99% of people looking for a new bike can't afford this... so yes click bait title is right
Correction: 99% of cyclists do not have access to this machine.
A bike fitting should be included with the price of a bike and be offered in every bike shop for every bike.
And we live in a world where many bike manufacturers still recommend bike sizes based on rider height and inseam and many local bike shops are still using distance between your crotch and the top bar while standing on the ground. It's no wonder that for many their first bike is also their last.
Agreed, they either throw one in that's total crap, or charge too much relative to the cost of the bike. lose-lose.
My LBS recently did a renovation that included adding a pair of bike fit stations (nowhere near as advanced as idmatch, tho), and they told me that a bike fit would be part of every bike purchase there.
@@jdmcdorce876 Looking at you CANYON . Shitty sizes and bar stem lengths for the mass public.
If you go to a good bike shop this will happen. Don't go to a car parts shop or buy in a box. This was not meant personally.
With two herniated discs in my lower back, I HAVE to get an endurance position and then some, plus I run slightly shorter cranks too. No flush stems for me anymore.
Bike fit while only riding in the drops? How does that make any sense when one spends at least 80% of time on the hoods…. I thought the bar would be changed for a bar with hoods for the more endurance position but nope…
Machine learning can be a great tool, but you have to ask the right question….
they reckon its not needed. As it can account for it in the drop geometry. .
@@GCNuser123what if you have a back problem, or just not flexible..does the system take this in account? If, how?
…also, different handlebars have different drop and reach.
"they reckon", sounds very scientific 😂
It’s not really ML just analytics. The funny part was want endurance the AI says increase stack height and leave the rest.
I wish manufacturers let you pick your components a la carte. I fit a size 58 Trek Domane and had to swap out the handlebars for 40cm ( stock was 44) and am planning on getting shorter cranks eventually ( Stock is 175mm). I should have been able to make those choices at time of purchase, at a minimum with the same component level, possibly same or optional upgrade to a higher level, and then they could assemble my bike.
There are many custom builders out there, that are usually also master bike fitters 👌 they will measure you, talk to you about your wishes and needs, and build your wished bike (Domane in your case) so it fits you perfectly (way better than IDMatch and similar system). It will probably also not cost you much more than it.
Doesn’t fit with mass manufacturing efficiency.
Great stuff! Unfortunately, until such tech (or similar) becomes a standard in every bike shop (for free or with minimal charge), it remains only an interesting curiosity to me.
Yes I agree 100%! Spending a chunk of cash on a bike should qualify a customer a free bike fit…. Come on bike shops get with the times!
It can be expensive to get a bike fit but we would advice people to factor it into their bike purchase. A well fitting bike will change your riding experience.
@@gcntech, I haven't meant my post as an accusation. I only meant I'm on a low budget, hence for me, this is just an interesting curiosity, I can't afford anyway. But I'm pretty sure bike fitting is a good thing, and if someone is already buying a bike for more than 2500 euros, I guess one may consider counting in bike fitting as well. My new bike, which I bought last year was only about 1000 euros. This was an equivalent to my monthly salary, so... you know. If someday a bike fitting will become more widely available to low-budget cyclists, I would be glad to use the offer.
1000 euros is alot of money. My bike was about the same. This is either for the nerds or pros. @@sherab2078
Were you payed off?
My custom made travel bike has been constructed after I had been measured on one of these fitting machines; however that was a long time ago and they weren't that higtech at the time. My bike fits me like a glove.
system tells oli that he needs a 57.5, yet he's been riding a 56 all this time, presumably with no issues... makes you think
He did clarify saying it felt the bigger size would require less adjustment. Seems like a 1+1=2 but also 1+1+1-1=2 situation if you catch my meaning
But it is smaller, less problems I guess than too big.
Yup. Bottom bracket is fixed, every other interaction point between you and the bike is movable in any direction.
Perfecting frame size is irrelevant.
Definitely, smaller is always better if you're unsure. @@grahamriley8124
@@alexm9479 Bikes have 3 contact points: saddle, paddles and handlebars. It's a simple triangle for good’s sake, and even more so, you fix one of the points out of three beforehand. It is trivial to mathematically prove that you don't need AI to compute optimally the other 2 points. You don't even need a fancy recording system that captures live all the angles. All you need is properly placed 10$ camera and simple video analysis.
What AI or any high-tech system can't really give you is reaction to your feedback. What now they are doing is replacing the trained human expert, with a low-level technician who enters tweaks based on your feedback into the machine. Speaking in simple terms, they replaced a specialist doctor with a nurse and a computer. Would you trust that kind of approach if it was your actual health on the line???
A physiotherapist specialist bike fit was brilliant for me. Changed my saddle to pedal dynamics and my reach and stack height to get rid of some lingering pain and power transfer losses.
Whoop whoop! Another point for bike fits 🙌
Since the bottom bracket is a fixed point you can alter all the other stuffs but you have to keep in mind that they are all levers so even small increase/decrease can make a difference in how the bike feels. A bigger frame with a shorter stem can have, theoretically, the same meseaures of a smaller frame with a longer stem but the riding experience will be different.
Curious there are no hoods on the bar to be measured by...which would seem to be a much more normal/popular riding position.
I'm nominally a 54 on a bike with more relaxed geometry but I also fit a 56 with a more aggressive geometry. Long torso allows me to adopt a lower position.
It would be nice if you could swap out fit components (stem, handlebar width, saddle, crank length) at the time of bike purchase with like components at no extra cost so you aren't forced into buying a bike package that doesn't fit you from the start. It'd save the average consumer money and trouble later on. I'm aware custom builds exist (Trek Project One $$$) but I'd like that option on a workhorse alloy 105 bike.
It's a great point! Many brands and shops do offer this service, buying a bike from the shop is a great way of getting the correct sizing 🙌 You may not be able to get a full fit but minor adjustments and the in person expertise can go a long way.
Years ago, I went through a similar process at my local bike fitter before selecting my bike. They steered me toward a frame geometry from a brand that suited my unconventional short crank requirements. The setup involved just a basic looking fit bike and some video motion capture, yet it proved to be effective.
It's great to hear how something very similar worked for you!
I think that the key point is to consider getting a pro bike fit that uses an adjustable bike-emulation machine before buying a bike. Both my wife and I are in the middle of a fitting where the fitter used mechanical device, similar in concept to the one in the video but with manual dials and levers, to dial it to fit our dimensions. He also used devices to measure our sit bones and shoe sizes. So this cost $200 each (was $150 last year), and the conclusion was that we both had bought bikes that were too big. My wife found her entry-level Specialized gravel bike to be too uncomfortable to ride more than 10 miles, but after getting new handle bars, stem, grips, and a seat with proper set up she is now riding without pain. Perhaps investing in a bike fit first could have saved us the extra $400 in new bike parts for her $750 bike. Still waiting on parts for my road bike…
A bike fit is a great way to get the most out your machine! Factoring the price into buying a bike will mean you can really fully enjoy your riding. Great to hear that your wife is now loving her bike, this is what it's all about 🙌
absolutely what i was trying to get across!
I am a heavy rider and because of that, I can't fit like the typical rider. However, that doesn't stop me from riding. I tend to stay away from carbon because most have weight limits that I don't meet, but as far as geometry, what I tend to do is get a bike with an uncut fork, a high rise stem usually somewhere around 17 degrees, as well as putting spacers under the stem. I do not use all in one stem/bars as I am not in that market and I would be better served by loosing 10lbs than spending that kind of $$. Also, depending on the bike, I may also choose a seatpost with some layback. I have also been tinkering with cranks that are a tad shorter than ships with the bikes. I have been opting for 170 or 165 and these help keep my knees out of my stomach which helps a lot. Now, I know I am not your typical cyclist, but if anyone is having these issues you may want to try some of these solutions. The idea of having a long reach with a higher stack height is not new to me, it is something I have been doing for more than a decade now and am very comfortable with.
Which is exactly why I went to Vires. Every other bike I looked at would’ve needed some adjustment and that’s not cheap these days with one piece bar/stems. Recommended.
I appreciate that for the endurance fit it raised your handlebar without shortening the reach. Most riders can manage sitting a little bit higher without having to scrunch their spinal columns.
Didn’t Manon present this a few months ago?
They (Selle IT) presented that 5years ago already. I saw it on the EuroBike…not much interest from the market.
@@izi941 It seems to be hard to access and rather flawed system. I went out of my way to try it and I would not do it again, nor recommend it to anyone.
The handlebar on that expensive fitting rig doesn't have hoods? That seems like a major miss. Most of our riding is done on the hoods.
Being stupidly tall (2.03m), it's surprisingly easy to choose a bike: "I'll just take the biggest bike you have, thanks!"
In all seriousness, a lot of manufacturers (cough cough Ribble, cough cough) build really small bikes and XL is only 58cm fitting folk up to 190cm. It's pretty annoying.
How big is your richard, in proportion to your height?
Mine is 2-3 cm on a good day. @@hughjanus7354
Go for Canyon. 1.9m guys ride L size.
@@Gianniz27 good shout. My road bike is a Canyon Endurace 2xl. Love it 😁
Indeed you are a tall drink of water….almost 6’8” for us Yanks.
2:00 I love that the motion capture appears to be an xBox Kinect sensor.
hahahah true that. I still have one of those at home
It is and it's standard. Every ID Match place uses those (I know this because I got a fit and asked). Not sure if this is a a sign of quality or reassuring in any way haha
the xbox kinect sensor holds so much potential. even a decade ago, we were able to use multiple sensor bars with software on pc's to 3d map rooms and play spaces for motion capture games for kids.
My bike fitter spent 2 hours assessing fitness, strength, flexibility and asymmetries before I got on the bike, 8ncluding teaching and practising a set of strength and stretching exercises to improve the situation. He also sees bike fit as an evolutionary process and the initial fee includes quarterly return visits to tweak position and exercises as you improve. There's a lot of great use of AI and I'm in the IT business, but it still needs to be in the hands of an experienced human who can assess these things that the AI can't measure.
The jig not lighting up like a Tron Lightcycle irritated me more than it should!
Ending up with some bikes you can actually get and ride is so much better than just being given the measurements and left to figure it out for yourself
GCN for old folks like me who, over the years, have smashed bits of their bodies in biking accidents and other sports accidents, comfort is key. The only thing of interest to me on this video was the idea that raising a bike's stack should be kept separate from shortening the reach. With two head on collisions to my 'credit' my neck is jiggered. I will experiment with longer reach but raised stack in an endeavour to remove serious neck pain post 30 miles. Thanks John.
The big bike makers (eg Canyon, Trek, Spec'd etc) don't help themselves inasmuch as they offer no choice of stem, bar width, crank length etc on a new bike (even though car makers have allowed you to pick options like cody colour, trim colour etc for decades and this info was used to build the car). So because I didn't want to waste money on a new bike to find I had to change out the stem, bars and chainset as soon as I got it (a waste of money and my time), I just bought a good, second hand Colnago frame and built it up myself.
But I didn't feel inclined to pay high prices to have to change out the kit I didn't want - the bike brands don't help themselves.
Well it's cheaper thats why they do it. On the other hand you cannot even buy a different cockpit for an canyon ultimate nowadays, they won't offer (I asked myself). Handlebarwidth can be adjusted but no way to change the stem lenght.
iDMatch was awesome for me when I did it last year and I take the results with me for any bike I get set up for - Was ideal for when I did my dream build!
Very few brands give you any choice now on component changes. You get what you get or you have to pay the shop to get and install a replacement the right size.
Selle Italia SLR Boost... legendary saddle. It came standard on my Canyon Aeroad and, 2,000 miles later, I've never ever thought about it. I mean, my body has never produced pain or pressure points pointing to the saddle.
Nice idea. Then try getting the vendor of the $15,000 bike to adjust the standard stem or crank or… anything at all. Some manufacturer is going to win a lot of market share when they actually focus on the customer and fix that problem.
I don’t see the point? How many of us have access to this IDMatch? Us mere mortals must trust our local bike shops to recommend the best bike, although sometimes the bike shop will say what they want to sell a bike.
The point is to make a sponsored video of an interesting alternative. Idk about you but I regularly watch things that involve something I don’t readily have access to
TBH depends on a country, in Poland there are 7 fitting centers using idmatch. It also costs around the same money as classical bike fitting.
Take this specific fitting system out of the equation - actually investing in a bike fit can help you understand how well your current bike fits, and what changes might be appropriate. That then gets you more informed about what frame size might fit you best, and what other tweaks might be needed on a bike you’re considering.
I’ve definitely been caught before where the dealer was more interested in selling me the bike they still had in stock on the floor, rather than try to track down the right size bike I should have had…
I actually love this idea. I'm sure it will work better and better and that's exactly what everybody needs before getting a bike - the bloody fit.
It depends on how additional data flows into the machine learning, like flexibility from an anamnese, comfort/discomfort feedback during the fit and afterwards.
Plus: The potential of those systems is very high.
Minus: But it also could lead to less professional fitting persons standing by these systems.
Bought an XL canyon ultimate CFR (at 6’3”, I need 830mm from the bb to top of saddle and 610mm from the nose of the saddle to the centre of the bars) For some reason canyon made the fit on those bikes much more hunched up. Having spent nearly 11k on the bike, had to spend another €500 on a saddle pillar with layback and a longer stem section. Very very unhappy with it.
500 quid on a seat post and stem! Are you nuts?
Silly me, you spent 11 grand on a bike.
So how did you get a different stem? Canyon nowadays only has one piece handlebars (which can be adjusted in width but not lenght). They don't sell different Stems or cockpit for the ultimate
@@danielwaldner7121 I contacted Canyon about both issues, the seat post that was too steep and the stem that was too short. They sold me a 120mm long stem centre piece to that integrated handlebars, which I then installed (about €350 if I remember correctly). The drops sections slide out and are then installed back into the new stem section once all of the cables are rerouted through the new fitting. They don't advertise that these parts are available but if you contact them through their website, they'll sell them to you. Note: the one I took off is a 110mm, so if that's the one you need I have one with very limited mileage on it.
I am one of those people who is often in the middle of sizes. Most recent bike i went up, next time I'll definitely go down and adjust with a longer stem or seat adjustment if i need to
Great video. I would love to do that bike fit.
my height is 166cm. i rode on a frame of top tube at 505mm, seat tube at 450mm with a seatpost 25 degree offset, stem 90mm.
i changed to a frame of shorter top tube at 496mm, seat tube 440mm, stem +-75mm, non-offset seatpost...overall length is about +-4cm shorter. vola! i m better off and did not feel overstretch! our body tends to lean much forward naturally and more energy efficient in pedalling when speeding up
I am 186cm, fairly proportioned arms/legs, and 90kg. From where I live, I have no access to such machine whatsoever & probably the cost of such bike-fit is much higher than I would plan to spend in comparison to my bike price budget (btw, was it mentioned how much this session costs, round figure?) so I ordered new bike on-line, based upon the measurements of previous bike and my bike-fit knowledge. So, same as Ollie, the previous was 56 and wanting more comfort (not much interested about high speeds or breaking power records) I choose 57 (Orbea Orca has L on 55, which I could get, for more aero/speed...) so now I find the reach a bit too long, I changed the stem to 1cm shorter. More or less, I got the same result as what the machine got for Ollie. Did I make the right decision? If not, this would be my mistake... !
Opinion from someone who had his bikefitting done with exactly this system, and works in the AI field. It is great, but:
- Being AI accuracy is heavily based on the sample size. If only few stores still have them then it will grow quite slowly, undermining the self-improvement factor of the model. Still it can be great and this is the direction the industry should be going
- There is an interesting feature that allows you to correct your position based on the pain you are currently feeling on certain areas on a 1-10 scale. On my end, it overcompensated knee pain quite much putting the seatpost so high I could lock the full leg when on the extended part of the movement, making me rock on the sides quite much. My feeling is that it still needs a bit of improvement especially when facing problematics that may not be bike-dependent but health-dependent
- The human factor is still important: AI does not substitute the knowledge and experience of an attentive bikefitter. The person not once asked me how the position felt, not even after setting up the bike in the target position. He was actually surprised when I asked "can I try the bike"
Bottom line: it is a powerful tool but only in the hands of competent personnel, with full awareness of the underlying model and with a background in sports-science. It's the minimum you can ask when paying €150-200+ for a bike-fit
I can never find these wonderful tools in my neck of the woods. Montreal Canada.
You can go to Marinoni for $90 they'll measure you up on their adjustable bike. They won't change your fit but will measure up the fit you find comfortable.
yeah all well and good. I have some biomechanics training and experience on the bike. My feeling is that automated bike fitting produce weird results because the underlying algorithm is reflecting current point of view in the industry. The "AI" is basically leveraging a bigger database and returning a probable fit, based on many samples. I don't think there is a feedback loop about the long term success of the fit, because people are usually going to a different fitter if thery're not happy. I'm not surprised it suggests a bigger frame. It's acookie cutter approach. No matter how many metrics you're going to capture, if the underlying assumptions are limited, the results will be unsatisfactory. The fitting is done on handleabars without the shifters which bitered me. I know you can adjust for that, but it changes a lot how you interact with the handlebars and the position. Again, not surprised that the system suggested a bigger frame. My fit is optimised for riding on the hoods first and foremost. BTW, I love my Selle Italis SLR boost saddles too. I'm 177 cm and ride road bikes (if you look at traditional geometry) with 53 top tube, 11 cm stem + 7 cm reach bar, zero offset saddle and 165 mm cranks. I also slam my stem, because of my monkey arms. I tried bigger frames, I can ride them okay, but all feel like riding a barn door. Much less agility, weight balance is off, and my position relative to the pedals is less optimal. Whatever bike charts suggest is between 54 or 57, too big.
Got to love the motion capture is done with an Xbox 360 Kinect :-) very old school
I love how they've used an xbox kinect for this - truly amazing how we can use technology and innovation for more than its intended purpose.
Best fit i had was by Pete Matthews (master wheel builder) in the mid to late 80's when buying a new bike from him. He had had a jig built and the methodology was in principle the same, way ahead of his time. Had a few bikes from him, handbuilt and fitted like a Saville Row suit.
I did one of those .. totally off any manual bike fit . Ended up hurting my knee . 6 months of poor knees
My local bike shop does exactly that, although I don't know what tech they use. They start with a bike fit and then can tell you what models they have that would be good for you. I know bike fits make a big difference as in my case it stopped a shoulder and neck issue from being unbearable. Next 'serious' money bike I buy will be after a bike fit.
The very sad thing is that most bike manufacturers still sell race bikes with 42cm (and even 44cm) handlebars that you can swap but mostly at a price. The first thing I did was change my handlebar from 42cm to 38cm and throw a perfect bar tape in the bin (It shred in pieces just by removing it). If only bike manufacturers would build to order in the factory or leave the fine tuning to the shops...
And yet, I changed my handlebar from 42 to 44cm (and to 46 on gravel) 🤷♂️ now you see why they take the middle path-they cover more ground
@@izi941I don't know. They fit 170mm cranks in small sizes, 175mm in big sizes and 172.5mm in between. This while people either go for 175 mm (the tall ones), the informed ones go for 170mm and the ones who don't know go for 172.5mm. The middle ground in crank length and handlebar width for road racing simply isn't there.
Doesn't convince me. People keep forgetting the human body is adaptable, not static in any way. You can get a fit in any way, shape or form but maybe 1 month later, depending if you get fitter or adapt to the position, everything could need a tweak. Selling a bike fit as a quick band-aid solution is dishonest.
Me and my wife tried idmatch. It’s ok and not as great as you guys keep saying. If there is leg length issue this system is useless.
Or also flexibility, prior injuries/problems, extreme riding styles (either crit/aggressive, or ultramarathon comfy),….I presume? I think it’s more a good sales person alternative rather than to a bike fitter.
My bike shops is small 3 generation family owned, they do have new fancy expensive bikes but also great used ones . But sadly no fitting computer machines, clerk just eyeballs your size he picks a bike and u test ride he adjusts, you ride and you pay when it feels right... Its a chillax place i look for reasons to stop by and browse see which bikes come and go
I did find it insightful. Thank you!
The sizes come in 2cm jumps but there is enough adjustment on the bike to make it fit you perfectly. I do wish they'd change cranks lengths more though. 165 upto 52's, 170 on 54-56, 172.5 on 58-60 and 175 on 60+. We weren't designed to sit for hours on a bike, so there is actually no 'perfect' size.
Would happily go through this, but for the cost and distance - unless they fancy sponsoring me a visit?! 😁
Will definately consider this when buying my first Pinarello Dogma!
5Ft10 got a size small Canyon Grizl. Actually, it's a really good fit! Doesn't help being between 2 sizes
Very interesting Ollie, always informative. I'm off to Google the price now.
I generally always have to change the Stem and Handlebars as they come with a 90 or 100mm stem and I run 120, and handlebars are 42 with a 80 to 90 reach, where I run a 40 and slightly shorter reach between 70 and 75.
Buy a Daccordi, i just got mine, 100% built to my size from scratch. I got it with Super record electronic derailers and get this rim brakes and i still have the thumb button. I didn't want disc, rim brakes easy maintenance. Cost? Less than a 1/3 of a brand new Cervelo R5. Daccordi is the last of Family made bikes in Italy.
I wish that database was made publicly available (for a fee of course). There are only two idmatch locations I can find in Germany; both hours and hours from me :( As a 193cm tall rider; I'd love to know, in general terms, what the correct SuperSix size is for me.
Don’t bother. Go to a custom builder, he’ll take your measurements, build the bike of your choosing (from frame to every bolt) and after it fit the bike for your needs. It will fit you much better than IDMatch and similar systems (there are many, IDMatch also isn’t a new thing), especially if you have any physical limitations (pain whilst cycling, previous damages to the body etc.)
This is all well and good, but manufacturers don't allow you to swap parts. You have to make the changes by purchasing wider saddle, longer/shorter stems etc after shelling out for your chosen bike.
If you already cycle the distances and can sit over the bike in the size you think, then you can feel everything yourself.
Does this mean that the earliest users of this system did not get a proper fit, since the machine had a lot of learning to do?
For AI models like these you usually feed it initial data likely from paid volunteers with supervision from an actual bike fitter to guide it. After you have enough data it should be ok for customers to use, the only difference really is the initial customers will have a bikefit that's more or less correct while subsequent customers will have more precise adjustments given.
Probably, but the machine has to even learn more now with more data
The fit is still overseen by a human bike fitter.
And we’re talking about millimeters. You could wear a different pair of shoes or a thicker chamois that would deviate from your “perfect fit” more than the margin for error in iterations of AI learning.
I bike hills more often than flat ground. I’d want it at an angle of maybe 30degrees.. near the point where center of gravity makes the rear wheel almost a unicycle.. that’s where I need power, endurance , and balance at the various dimensions. A bigger bike without fixed feet gives you these.
Im 5ft 11.5" & both of if my road bikes are 56cm frames, although one if them has a longer stem, but i dont tend to ride that one on my longer rides, so it suits shorter 1-2 hour blasts around the local lanes.
Attention still needs to be made to cleat position which isn't covered by this machine Plus overall biomechanics, strength and flexibility which change over time due to training and detraining.
2:50 "The fit ... begins with your shoes, determining your cleat position."
😮
@@andrewmcalister3462 the system just matches the cleat the 1st metatarsal position but i do I like how it takes into account pronation but it's still ballpark stuff. Hopefully the operator will be able to identify ankle drop and knee tracking, varus, valgus, leg length.
the system does do your cleats first with a separate device
yeah it's not a bad device measuring, width pronation and meta tarsal@@GCNuser123 for a good starting point. However i would like to see Q-factor, varus, vulgus, knee tracking, leg length and arch height. Cleats are important as saddle in my opinion.
this is really cool and all and i get that instead of paying so much in parts to replace and all that you can pay for a one time fit to find out but i feel like people dont get how expensive this would be. its around 300 dollars for the fit itself and i can imagine its not everywhere, so you'd also have to pay to travel to wherever you can get an idmatch bike fit. it just makes it kinda hard to justify it when i could probably get it done for much cheaper
I bought a Trek Domane in 54 cm, and always felt uncomfortable riding it. Swapped to an 80 mm stem, and 170mm cranks and the bike is much better now. The relaxed geometry helps. I purchased a Madone the next year in size 52 cm, and it fits like a dream.
Awesome! Are you getting a fit before you buy these bikes? ⚙
I had the same problem with my previous bike Emonda (2021), size 56. Trek has a similar frame reach to the others, but they use a longer bar reach. In my case it was 100 mm stem + 100 mm bar reach. Others typically use a 100 mm stem with 70-80 mm bars in 56.
Buying a Zipp SL70 Aero bars solved my problem perfectly. For the last 2 years they have been using shorter bars on some models.
The topic is bike fitting! Not feeling comfortably without any info about preset values and changes being made.
Could be so many variables that leads to you now feeling fine.
It'd be great if gcn did a accuracy comparison on online bike fit sites with physical fits like this. Unfortunately, I'm not in 0.0001% of gcn viewers that can afford a 'proper' fit. Having been off the bike for a few years, my old settings were causing serious discomfort. With an extra 4" around the waist and seriously unfit, I found an online site that took my new body size and existing bike then recommended changes. Have to say, it's been pretty accurate. Saved a millennia of time tweaking stuff myself. Not entirely discomfort free, but better by considerable degrees.
Ollie did what most people do. Go for a size smaller with a long stem and slam it anyway because it looks cool. 😂
The consumer is not the problem but the industry
The fitting bike doesn't have brake hoods, which is where most of us spend our time. So how can you get an accurate fit?🤔
Probably extrapolate from the position he's in. That's what machine learning algos are really good at. Which shows, since it picked the correct bike fit for ollie.
@@rnediscyeah, but the hand/wrist position is different. Also makes the feeling in the shoulders different 🤷♂️ with a normal, flexible, long time biker all ok, but for a beginner or someone with problems a big difference in data. I think this machine is really just to choose stock bike, that you afterwards bring to a proper bike fitter
The biggest mistake people make when buying a new bike is buying a NEW bike. There’s so many good bikes out there for a fraction of the price if you know where to look. I just bought a $12,000 specialized S works tarmac for 900 bucks fitted with zip 400s and it looks practically brand new. Only thing I did was change the bearings, which also looked perfect, and it rides like a dream
What kind of handle bar it is without actual brakes hooda handle where you normally holding your hands. For sure without it fit Is not accurate
Like a lot of GCN videos, 99% of us don't have access to this fitting technology.
Creepy! Rather than tech efficiency.
I don't have a very expensive bike but if I were to get one I would definitely have a pre-purchase bike fit to give me the right parameters to aim for.
Bike fitting make sense if you can ride at least an hour on that machine, since biomechanical issues surface after different time in different individuals due to the body ability to compensate before serious pain appear.
Great to see the xbox one connect still getting used. Crap for gaming, but has/had so many other uses.
I am finding it hard to know the difference sizes. For example, bike sizing is different from the UK and USA according to many articles. I also have been informed by many conversations and articles that due to the geometry, you need the size down for a TT bike from your road bike. I.e. of you ride a Medium you will require a Small framed TT bike. Please advise me further. Would appreciate GCN answering these questions on the Tech Show. Thanks in advance to all.
Hi, thanks for the comment.
We know what you mean with regards to sizing, it can be a confusing task.
Fortunately these days most manufacturers have become great with this by giving recommendations on bike size depending on your height. However, there are always some variations and it's not a guarantee that your height, is going to give you the match for a frame size.
It's worth looking at the diagrams/geometry charts of the bikes you are interested in, and compare it to your current bike to see which is the closest match.
And of course, not forgetting your local bike shop who should be able to help out with regards to fitting and sizes.
The TT bike is a good question, in theory if you ride a medium sized road bike, you should ride a medium sized TT bike too.
@gcntech greatly appreciate the response. I'll dive into this more and speak with a local tt club and with my local bike shop. Keep on pedalling. Have a wonderful day.
Would be interesting to see what results the machine gave me.
I ride a 65cm canyon with an upwards pointing stem and a saddle height of 952mm.
May be worth the £300 to be told it’s only the 64cm roubaix or maybe a 2xl canyon endurace and nothing else.
99% of us don't ride for a living but for fun. Bikes are adaptable. Humans are adaptable. The "dangerous consequences" are not that dangerous. Panic over.
i bought a Canyon. they suggested a M. Which i got. I then adjusted all the components to feel comfy. cant be any more difficult than that --also makes sense to raise stack for a longer ride. That what my brain would think. You never said how much it costs to get a bike fit. also id have to throw in airfare from vancouver and hotel.
1. AI is machine learning. AI is just a marketing term. AI knows nothing.
2. Sure, the fit works for those near the mean, but what about atypical fits?
3. What is an "optimal road bike" position? There is no such thing. Optimal is a function of rider preferences and what a rider wants to do. Optimal is a subjective choice based on arbitrary criteria.
You guys make some interesting claims in your tech....er...."promotional" videos.
Thanks Dr O and crew...yeah , aint nobody got one !! I bet everybody would do this , if it were affordable and convenient . Yeah....knowledge is power.
Canyon advert & Selle italia advert in a oner , nice one. Love it. Bike shops selling the size they have in house/in stock needs to be talked about.
Pinarello advert this time, no? The one from three years ago was more of a Canyon ad (and had more detail IIRC - ruclips.net/video/MzrRztl6HWg/видео.html)
Great info Ollie/GCN. It would be interesting to know which bike fitters throughout the UK have this system! There must be more than one? It would also be interesting to know if the Algorithms/Ai can adapt for disabilities? As I recently found out trying to compensate for a disability can lead down a rabbit hole. It's taken me 18 months to find a position that fits. When I buy my next bike I'd like to know beforehand which bike and position suits me best. Thanks guys👍
think you can find online. not many at the moment i think.
@@GCNuser123 cheers Ollie 👍
I’d say this is more an alternative to a good/fair sales person rather than a good bike fitter. I presume those machines are found at shops, not at fitters.
@@izi941 if you watched the film there was actually a bike fitter there. The thing about the algorithm is (as stated also in the film) the more data it gets the better it can give you advice. And that's all it is, advice! At the end of the day if you want pay for a quality bike fit then go away and change something you can. It's all about finding you a bike from the shelf that will give you a "comfortable" ride. Most of the time people go to bike fitters with the bike they've already bought. As I stated, before I hand over a lot of money for my next bike I'd like to know which one is gonna give me the most comfort. I've been to a bike fitter, how many bike fitters do you think understand my disability and what issues it brings while riding. Basically, the more information I have before I hand over my cash the better. 👍😊
always buy one size smaller , bike fit is a scam
Thanks for the video! I personally can't bring myself to spend thousands on a bike. I do appreciate a bike that fits me. I changed my stem to a shorter and more upright one. And moved my saddle forward 3 cm. The bike feels much better. I'm looking for compact bars 70 reach and 122 drop like Simon's. Do you know the brand he uses?
If bike shop owners actually cared for the people to get the right fit for the buyer they’d offer a bike fit that was inexpensive. My old bike shop used to charge $200 unless you bought a bike from them then it was $150. I’m pretty sure if they charged $50 they’d get more business.
“Tell me that you’re sponsored by Selle Italia without telling me that you’re sponsored by Selle Italia.” My nearest place charges $500 for this bike fit, and I will come out with numbers I still need to figure out to match what’s on the market. That’s a lot of money. And I still might need to get a professional fit on my bike to get all of the parts dialed in.
Interestingly after my fit I shortened stem and cranks and tweaked position but after some time and subsequent fits I’m back to my original stem albeit in a much lower position.
Very cool system. I like how Italy has a million and one places with this machine, UK has a few, and all of the US has 5 or so lol.
Yeah, I remember looking this up several months back when they had a video, and the closest one to me in the US would have been about a 16-hour drive. Pass. LoL.
Closest one to me is only 530 miles away from me. I'd spend an additional 25% in gas just getting there and back.
I love how the Kinect was so ahead of it's time that it's hardware is still being used for things like this 14 years later
I’d select the Pinarello too, then they’d give me the bill and I’d walk out with a Carrera. Love watching this kind of content because we all dream of having our dream bike.
How are they integrating that XBOX Kinekt? It’s. Proprietary connector, also most die from poor design.
Did anyone else catch the fact they are using an xbox kinect, 2:00 minutes into the video lol
Probably the cheapest sensor they could get with some 3d photogrammetry capabilities. We use kinect quite a bit when I was doing some robotics work for a certain project.
@@ryoukokonpaku1575 that’s really cool! Thanks for sharing
Using the id match locator: Sorry, we couldn't find a store in the area you searched for. Oh, and it's $300