Thank you! As someone who is now just embarking on my conversion to Catholicism I really appreciate Gavin Ashenden. I left C of E many years ago and pursued all sorts of paths none of which filled the void. My late husand was Catholic (New Zealander) who always said he was "Catholic, retired" and now ironically I am adopting the true faith which he wanted nothing to do with. The Church of England came into being through a 'fit of pique' and greed of a monarch and it is looking like its end is near.
The Church of England came into being so that King Henry VII could divorce his wife and marry his girlfriend, whom he later beheaded. It came into being through the persecution of many devout Catholics. Many, such as Saint Thomas More, Saint Edmund Campion, Saint John Fisher, and Saint Margaret were executed, with the last two being horribly tortured to death.
Remember The Holy Souls in Purgatory. Maybe your late husband could use your sufferings and your prayers. Praying for your conversion and your husband’s soul. You’re in my Eternal prayer basket.
Once again, it’s a superb explanation.. I think all our bishops should be doing 5.. 10 minute a week podcast like this.. keep up the great work, God bless
@@marydewar5675 There is already the See of Westminster - see Newman's Sermon on the Second Spring were he talks of the replacement of the old sees by new ones.
@@Mark3ABE Just remember that God is bigger than we are. He wants us to be one in him - this means working together as grown up Christians and not falling into childish squabbling
As an anglican in RCIA i would contend with Fr Gavin's contention that he got to dress up and dine out on his previous position. I think for most (much?) of that, he was exactly where the Lord wanted him to be. There are many genuine Christians in protestantism.
As an Anglican, I have just walked out of my RCIA course with utter disbelief. If this example was supposed to be an introduction to the Catholic faith then I’m astonished at the lack of encouragement and enthusiasm and knowledge that I received from the deacon running the course. A missed opportunity on their part.
@@AWOLCHRISTIAN You should investigate the pre Vatican 2 church, it might be what you are looking for. There are still groups such as the SSPX who only say the Latin Mass. It’s not only about what language in which the mass is said - it’s a different mass entirely and it’s part of our catholic tradition and history.
Well they tried to raise an issue that cannot be comprehended through the lens of 21st or even 20th century understanding of religion and of conscience. We are literally talking about a time in the 16th & 17th century where your obedience to WHATEVER the state religion was (Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, etc) wasn't only demanded but deviation from that was treated in the same light as treason or sedition. Real simple concept, you were either imprisoned or tortured until you recanted of your beliefs and got with the program or you were executed, end of story. This whole concept of true or not true / believing or not believing was absolutely meaningless. Whatever the Sovereign said the state religion was you were commanded to submit to it without exception. People died to hold on to what they believed in and people died to force other people to profess to something they did not believe in.
You sound really frustrated and i feel for you. I suggest contacting the Personal Ordinariate. They are ex-Anglican and fully Catholic and are eminently capable of helping you, very approachable too.
Justice demands for the return of her Dowry. The Dowry belonging to The Holy Mother of God . Never forget, England IS Our Lady's Dowry. Pray for England's conversation back to The One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. +DEVS VVLT
Thank you for your channel which I enjoy immensely. I favour the Catholic church although not yet a member. Some CofE mitigation: (1) The BCP (2) The KJ Bible (3) The choral tradition - unrivalled in the world. Attending choral evensong in any of the big cathedrals is always for me spiritually uplifting and refreshing, due to its moderation and restraint, and sublime beauty of words and music (4) The many hundreds of thousands of good faithful lives (priestly and lay) lived out it its care since 1538 where the CE was all that was really available (5) The many Anglican martyrs in the C16 who suffered cruel and terrible deaths (6) A few exposed latter day abusers and dithering Bishops cannot cancel these things out.
Musical restraint is in danger of being lost, with too much loud, high singing and blaring organ these days. The Directors of music have mostly turned their backs on Weelkes and Tomkins.
@@vsts2004 I always listen to Choral Evensong on the Third Programme on the wireless and, of course, Songs of Praise on the television. To me, it is a miracle that Sir Keir Starmer, an atheist, has not yet ordered the suppression of these broadcasts.
The Catholic Bishops in the UK are in a unique position to reclaim their rightful position as the true successors of the apostles and demand that the schismatic protestant Anglicans return the stolen property of the Catholic patrimony back to its proper owners. It is time to end the “cosmetic catholicism” of the Anglican sect, and again remind them that their holy orders “ have always been and continue to be absolutely null and utterly void.”
I remember reading that Samuel Pepys was accused of saying that "The Church of England sprang out of Henry VIII codpiece" It's quite correct. A secular construct that cosplays as a Christian religion. Look at the state of it now. Then look at it's role in terms of social control since the reformation.
I am a Catholic. I was a victim of serious emotional abuse from Anglican vicars a few years ago. Following my communications with the archdeacon, the head vicar of the parish wrote me an "apology" letter BEGINNING with : "I walk everyday in God's forgiveness." Got it! Youre above me, and I'm but a lowly being. But THIS is not over, until God says it's over.
There is a quiet revival of Catholicism going on. My local church has an orthdox, a few anglican, pentecostal, and lapsed catholics going through RCIA Currently 😊
From Pentecostal , Orthodox, Anglican to Catholicism you still need to move on to Biblical Christianity you have spent enough in heresy and blasphemy ,RCC. My prayers are with you
To the terror of Francis? I too will be starting, God willing, in September. I wonder if a pro Catholic movement is disturbing to the Vatican that has been furiously trying to modernize the church?
@@RobertO-vu4xb Catholicism is Biblical Christianity. The Catholic Church selected the books that went into the Bible at the Council of Rome in 392. For centuries, Catholic monks spent their lives copying Bibles word for word so that people who came later (we) would have them. The Bible is a Catholic book!
As an Anglican I agree with Gavin's analysis. At the heart of all this lies the issue of integrity. If you promote only 'company' men and women who have already sold their souls for a senior career or who lack the backbone and moral compass to stand up for truth and justice and instead remain silent and close ranks, what can one expect? We needed shepherds and the C of E establishment has given us hirelings.
Pray for wisdom and discernment to know what is truly of God and what is not. The Media and AI speak in ways that people swallow as truth. Many people have been hooked into this and many will follow and what will be their direction for others? We must watch our own words and actions
Gavin Ashenden is clearly an intelligent man. He will have been aware of historical fact and Anglican liturgical language (concerning the Real Presence) all his adult life. Why, therefore, did he ever choose to be an Anglican, let alone an Anglican priest? I am seriously interested to know - as I'm an Anglican currently questioning my religious denomination.
@@sharpfokus1210 I so agree. The C of E is as she says she is: part of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Let’s be finished with sectarian bigotry whether it be Papist or any other form!
I am afraid that it is a gross misrepresentation of the teaching of the Church of England to suggest that, just because the Priest, in administering the Sacrament, both asserts that it is the Body of Christ and also that the Sacrament is administered in remembrance of Our Lord involves some form of ambiguity, in that the second statement negates the first. The Canon of the Mass repeats the words of Our Lord “do this in remembrance of me” and also the words “take and eat, this is my body” and I have never heard it suggested that the Canon should be treated as defective on the basis that the words “do this in remembrance of me” act to negate the words “this is my body”. This argument has no logical basis to it.
The 39 Articles say the Eucharist isn’t to be worshiped or adored because it isn’t Jesus. They state very clearly He can’t be in two places at once. If the 39 Articles are representative of CofE teachings on the Eucharist (they’re supposed to be) then they don’t have the real Eucharist. I agree the canon argument isn’t the best. But there’s no legitimate defence of the choose what you fancy approach
@ No, Article 28 itself does not actually say that. That is what those in the evangelical wing of the Church of England wish it said, so they say that it does say it, even though it does not. Article 28 does clearly teach the real presence. It states in words of one syllable that it is a real partaking of the Body of Christ. There is no getting around that. The prohibition against reservation of the Sacrament is not stated to be based on a refusal to believe in the real presence, but the prohibition arises simply because Our Lord said to the Apostles “take and eat” so the clear instruction is to eat the bread, not to reserve it for adoration. Reservation and adoration are prohibited on the simple basis that there is no Scriptural authority for the practice. Since Article 28 has already taught, specifically, a belief in the real presence, the prohibition cannot possibly be, as you attempt to argue, on the basis that belief in the real presence is denied by this prohibition.
Unfortunately, the Roman Catholic Church has served as a worldwide example of the same coverup tactics as the C of E, only at a greater magnitude. We have witnessed over the years, whole dioceses in the US have become bankrupt, financially and spiritually, due to lawsuits over sexual abuse. However I completely understand Gavin's position in this issue and "the delicate balance".
This is true. In his last book “What is a Catholic”, published after his death, Pope Benedict XVI explains that, in the 1980’s, the Church decided to respond to the fall in vocations to the Priesthood by setting up homosexual clubs in seminaries and attracting seminarians by offering them the opportunity of living out their homosexual lifestyle in a discrete and protected way, funded by the Church. Now, I certainly would not judge the intentions of seminarians attracted in by this offer. It is perfectly possible that, apart from participating in a deception of the most serious kind (pretending to live a chaste, celibate, life, when this was not in fact the reality) they had a real love for the Lord, for the Church and a real calling to the pastoral ministry and for the salvation of souls. After all, the Church has always accepted that the presence of a moral flaw in the character of a Priest does not, necessarily, make him ineffective as a Priest. However, there is a great deal of difference in taking the odd swig of the communion wine and in raping young boys. It is now well established that former Cardinal MacCarrick required those seminarians who wished to advance their careers in the Church to spend the night in bed with him. Knowing of this, Pope Francis restored him to active ministry as a Cardinal and only reduced him to the lay state when he was forced to do so by criminal proceedings being commenced against him in the USA. Pope Francis is on record as saying that there was nothing wrong in Cardinal MacCarrick inviting young seminarians into his bed as long as they were over the age of consent. The Pope’s recent outburst, complaining that there was “troppo de frociaggine” amongst the Italian Clergy was triggered by his need, in his capacity as Primate of All Italy, to find the ever increasing sums of money needed to pay the legal costs, compensation, or hush money in respect of the explosion of sexual abuse amongst the (mainly homosexual) Italian Clergy. As to Pope Benedict XVIs book disclosing the practice of the Church in the 1980s, leading to this sorry state of affairs, it has, to all intents and purposes, been wholly suppressed by Rome.
Yup. As an American Catholic, it is with a heavy heart that I watch this video. I will say that to a certain degree the scandal here has been overblown by our old friends, the msm, BUT that doesn't negate the wrongs done by guilty clergy. Between the lies and the truth, it'll be a very long time before American Catholicism recovers, if it ever really does. I can't bring myself to judge other Christian churches for this tragedy, especially when our own prelates at the top can't seem to get their act togather. 🙄
Love that. Keep it coming. Here in Germany I have the feeling that our catholic church is like the anglican church in the UK, like an institute and political left. Today I had the newspaper of our diocese in my hands and for me it did not look catholic. At least in the UK you can easily identify the anglican church, here we just call it catholic church, but it feels like anglican/protestant quite often.
The only future of the Catholic Church is God - he's much bigger than we are and his ways are the greatest! Feeble human ideas are nothing compared to God's ways. Blessed be God forever!
Maybe you should change the name of this channel to “Anti-Anglican unscripted”? I agree all these revisionist and compromised Church of England bishops should step down. But Some of us think that Roman Catholics ought not be throwing stones about the mishandling of sexual abuse.
The Church of England owes the Catholic Church around 10,000 church buildings. It pretends it can do Holy Communion. It’s a dangerous crime operation, just an old one. There’s no point pretending this isn’t the case and pointing it out isn’t self righteous
I find it kind of revolting that this ex-Anglican is trying to blacken the Anglican Church by retailing the sexual misdeeds of its clergy and at the same time, claiming to propagandise for the Catholic Church as the virtuous alternative, while saying nothing at all about the centuries of sexual abuse by Catholic clerics that continues unabated to this day. I’m neither Catholic nor Protestant btw. This smells off!
Alright then. Since you're neither Ctholic, nor Protestant, how about a discussion concerning sexual abuse running rampant in public schools and scouting members, and families themselves. Far more of that is going on, yet secularists, such as yourself, are eager to target churches.
I really think the Catholic Church should take a very long, hard look at it’s own moral and spiritual reflection before it can make any judgements about the Church of England. Both institutions are opposite sides of the same coin when considering the awful sexual and spiritual abuse scandals that have darkened their doors for decades. As an Anglican who has personally experienced both atrocities in my life, I am at a loss to express my utter disappointment and disgust at the behaviour of men and women within the Church who “profess God” and yet commit and cover up horrific sinful behaviour. Shame on any denomination that allows such evil. You will be judged and your victims will have their justice through Christ.
@@AWOLCHRISTIAN Amen. Chaucer writes, with contempt, about a sinful clergyman “a sh*tty shepherd, shepherding clean sheep”. Excuse the language - it is Chaucer’s, not mine.
One does not condemn the institution of the family because incest or sexual abuse within those families happens to occur. Way too much opinions driven by emotions and not tempered logic or reason. That being said, the failures of men does not deduce nor reduce the fact that the Catholic Church, remains Christ's one and only true Church. It is holy because its teachings remain holy no matter how badly men behave. The COE came into being because men refused to abide by the teachings of Christ Himself, and so they splintered off and created their own contrived version. Contrivance can only persist for so long, before the wheels begin to fall off. The easy, cheap target, that Protestants, atheists, Freemasons, leftists and liberal secularists, have made of the Catholic church has failed in stopping Her mission and destroying Her. She continues to thrive and is a living testimony of the promise Christ gave, which is to be with His gift and vessel for mankind's salvation, until the end of time. And so He has.
Hard to understand anything other than Catholicism, as it was started by Jesus and wrote the New Testament. All other Christian churches are started by men who say they follow Jesus.
@@user-re2ss3jn8w The shared history (as they split off, keeping chunks of the theology) between Catholics and schismatics will prevent them from thinking of it that way.
Ashenden has reversed himself on questions he answered as an undergraduate. He has denounced himself. Many unanswered questions and he won't answer them.
My father who entered the Church from a Reformation congregation taught me Anglican/Episcopalianism was all the pageantry and none of the guilt. Modernist in the Church today will render it the same if unchecked.
There’s no self righteousness in calling out fake sacraments. It’s essential to spread the information. I fell victim to the Anglo Catholic pretence for my whole childhood
My understanding is that the words anglicans use for their consecration come from zwnigly. When i was studying the reformrion the joke was that while calvin beliieved in the real presence zwingly believed in the real absense.
Fr David Tudor had his cases appealed. I did find it strange that he was promoted as he was, but unless you have information about him that is not 'public domain', you might speak with greater accuracy and some charity. I knew Fr Tudor, never liked him that much, but he was highly respected by his congregation. I also met Archbishop Cottrell when he was Bishop of Chelmsford. For me, the greatest problem with him is that he is a political opportunist rather than a great Christian leader.
On the cover-up, the bishops should have asked the police to investigate. If a law has been broken eg under age sex, then it is a matter for the police.
I have. It is inconclusive. Pope John Paul I did have a weak heart and was taking digitalis. It is most likely that he died of an overdose. While the bottle was removed immediately following his death, it is possible to explain this by a concern to cover up any overdose. Such an overdose might have been quite inadvertent - the stress of the job might have caused the Pope to have heart pains and he might have taken a further dose in an effort to deal with this and not fully appreciated just how much he had taken. I do not think that he was deliberately murdered, but, of course, because of the lack of transparency at the Vatican, we shall never know the truth. Sorry - I see that this has appeared under the wrong post.
Gavin, I think you need to explain that you’ve misrepresented the Book of Common Prayer. The words at the giving of communion in the 1662 book are a combination of those given in the 1549 and 1552 books (consecutively). Your point about ambiguity is valid (and correct in my view) but please be truthful and accurate in your explanations (you owe your Anglican heritage at least that much).
@@revdrobertdesics8119 I agree. The Church of England (at least in so far as is taught by the Thirty-nine Articles) does not deny the doctrine of the real presence. In fact, Article 28 affirms the doctrine of the real presence, as clearly taught by the Sacred Scriptures. It causes some confusion by declining to apply the hypothesis of “transubstantiation” but this is on the basis that it is predicated on pagan Greek Scholastic Philosophy and that philosophy is not to be found clearly supported anywhere in the Sacred Scriptures. However, the crucial argument in favour of the teaching of the Church of England affirming the real presence is that the Eastern Orthodox Churches believe in the real presence and Rome does accept that they have a valid Eucharist but they do not adopt the hypothesis of transubstantiation in an effort to explain what they consider to be a Divine Mystery by a pagan human philosophical system and I think that, in this respect, our Eastern Orthodox brethren are much wiser that those of us in the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church. Properly understood, I do not see anything to contradict the teachings of the Sacred Scriptures in the version of transubstantiation adopted by the Church, however, the version adopted is heavily sanitised, to remove all of the pagan elements and to turn it into something which can be fitted into the teaching of Sacred Scripture. However, why bother? If it is possible to believe in the real presence without trying to explain it by human reasoning (as the Eastern Orthodox do) why introduce something which causes division and confusion?
I don’t agree that there is any ambiguity. The words “do this in remembrance of me” and “this is my body” both appear in the Canon of the Mass - but they do not negate each other.
And there is only, in this case, one head that rolls well enough. “I hope not literally. One of my predecessors in 1381, Simon of Sudbury, had his head cut off and it was then the peasants - the revolting peasants at the time - who played football with it at the Tower of London. “I don’t know who won. It certainly wasn’t Simon of Sudbury.”- Justin Wells's joke in the House of Lords. Appalling.
Gavin needs to see and read a few things, which show the hot house atmospheres of both the Church of England and the Roman Catholic Church. Trollope’s Barchester novels, Firbank’s Concerning the Eccentricities of Cardinal Pirelli, and the Marco Bellochio film My Mother’s Smile.
Logically, that must be the case. Rome does accept that the Eastern Orthodox Churches have a valid Eucharist, even though they do not make use of the hypothesis of transubstantiation to explain the real presence. The hypothesis of transubstantiation is not inconsistent in any way with the doctrine of the real presence - it is, quite simply, unnecessary. Since it is an unnecessary addition to the Faith which causes confusion and misunderstanding, surely it would be better to make it an optional teaching, rather than requiring belief in it as a dogma under pain of anathema for declining to assent to it?
The Prayer of Humble Access clearly affirms that we (Anglicans who affirm Real Presence) are eating and drinking Christ’s Body and Blood. According to a 2019 Pew Research Center survey, approximately 69% of self-identified Catholics in the United States believe that the bread and wine used in Holy Communion are symbols of the body and blood of Jesus Christ, rather than being the actual body and blood of Christ (the doctrine of the Real Presence). This means about 31% of Catholics adhere to the belief in Christ’s Real Presence in the Eucharist. The study highlighted that belief in the Real Presence is significantly higher among Catholics who attend Mass weekly and those who are more religiously observant.
@@windowsoflifeI have met many Anglicans over the years who do sincerely believe in the doctrine of the real presence. Not only that, communion is treated with much more reverence than in many Catholic Churches, with the congregation filing up to the Altar rails, to kneel and receive the host and the cup from the Priest with an assistant holding a patten underneath to ensure that anything dropped or spilled does not end up on the floor. To assert a belief in the inerrancy of the Sacred Scriptures is to assert a belief in the real presence.
XXVIII. Of the Lord's Supper. The Supper of the Lord is not only a sign of the love that Christians ought to have among themselves one to another, but rather it is a Sacrament of our Redemption by Christ's death: insomuch that to such as rightly, worthily, and with faith, receive the same, the Bread which we break is a partaking of the Body of Christ; and likewise the Cup of Blessing is a partaking of the Blood of Christ. Transubstantiation (or the change of the substance of Bread and Wine) in the Supper of the Lord, cannot be proved by Holy Writ; but is repugnant to the plain words of Scripture, overthroweth the nature of a Sacrament, and hath given occasion to many superstitions. The Body of Christ is given, taken, and eaten, in the Supper, only after an heavenly and spiritual manner. And the mean whereby the Body of Christ is received and eaten in the Supper, is Faith.
@ There are serious issues to be addressed. The hypothesis of “Transubstantiation” (which first requires a belief in pagan Greek Scholastic Philosophy) did not appear until many years after the foundation of the Church and it has never appeared in the Eastern Orthodox Churches. Yet Rome accepts that the Eastern Orthodox Churches do have a valid Eucharist. So, as a Philosopher, you must accept the inevitable logic of the argument that, if the Eastern Orthodox Churches can have a valid Eucharist, but not subscribe to the hypothesis of transubstantiation, the same logic must apply to the Church of England.
It is fascinating to speculate as to what might have happened if Queen Mary I and King Philip had been blessed with an heir. Would England have continued to remain Catholic? Possibly not. When King James II had a son, who would have become a Catholic Sovereign to succeed him, he was deposed by the Glorious Revolution of 1688. William and Mary were welcomed with overwhelming public support, and Parliament settled the Crown on Queen Anne and the Electress Sophia of Hanover and her heirs.
Probably yes.The Protestant exiles on the Continent were very worried at the success of Good Queen Mary as the English people were still very catholic.
Whao! Where have I gone and put my dictionary?🤨🙃! Good sound echo soundings and depth charges. Me not deep though. Good listen...and to take in such interesting perspectives. Gavin perhaps should be a priest. The Protestant faith has obviously been well thought out and has to be based on good solid foundations or it would not have taken hold as it has. Even a read of George Eliot that goes back to around the time of the Catholic Emancipation Bill gives an inkling of how it was. Perhaps the first Protestants where those who had to take a walk when Jesus pointed to the spot about the Last Supper. How better way I suppose could you be able to remember him than by such a miracle as his real presence, to refresh, turn over like a wheel, regenerate: his BEING in you and you in him. In what way though does the Holy Spirit fit in?
as critical of the church of England and at the same time a father talking to your son, I see a discrepancy with faith. As a ministry , Catholic one, you should have been a single man...one without a son or a daughter. I am happy to believe that you are a blessed man having a bit of the two faiths. should you have a desire of unity and not separation between Catholicism and Anglicanism, I as an ordinand in the C of E dream with the time of mutual love and respect.
I am looking forward to hearing Mrs Bennett explain the hydrolastic suspension. I once had a Morris 1100 - nothing has ever really bettered its hydrolastic suspension.
I am not sure that the Church of England refuted the real presence, at least at the time the Thirty-nine Articles were formulated (I appreciate that hardly any Anglicans now believe all of them and some do not believe any of them). Article 28 reads:- “The Supper of the Lord is not only a sign of the love that Christians ought to have among themselves one to another, but rather, it is a Sacrament of our Redemption by Christ’s death insomuch as to such as rightly, worthily, and with faith receive the same, the Bread which we break is a partaking of the Body of Christ; and likewise, the cup of Blessing is a partaking of the Blood of Christ.” Now, the word “partaking” means to eat and drink in its usual meaning, so that the Church of England did, originally teach that Holy Communion involved eating Christ’s body and drinking his blood. Article 28 does go on to decline to accept the hypothesis of “transubstantiation” but this is on the basis that it is not to be found in Sacred Scripture. It is founded, of course, on Greek Scholastic Philosophy and this only came to light, once again, after the Dark Ages. So the particular hypothesis of transubstantiation, founded as it is on a school of philosophy not available to the Church until many hundreds of years after it was founded, cannot be an essential doctrine of the Faith. For example, Rome does recognise that the Eastern Orthodox Churches do have a valid Eucharist, even though they do not subscribe to the hypothesis of transubstantiation. In any event, I have yet to meet a Catholic who understands what “transubstantiation” actually means. Many Catholics consider that the supposed “Eucharistic Miracles” prove the hypothesis of transubstantiation. In fact, of course, the reverse is true. The Council of Trent defines, as a dogma, that the “accidents” do not change, so that, to assert that the ”accidents” have changed is to deny the teaching of Trent. Properly understood, the true doctrine of transubstantiation does make it quite clear that the change which takes place at the moment of consecration is purely a spiritual, or mystical, change and that no scientific analysis, however, minute, would ever discern any alteration in the chemical, physical, biological, molecular or sub molecular characteristics of either the bread or the wine. So, Catholics take the view, that, if the Church of England does not accept the hypothesis of transubstantiation, the result must be to deny the “real presence” but that is not so. It is perfectly possible to believe in the real presence without applying a pagan philosophical argument to try to explain the mystery. The Eastern Orthodox have the real presence without this hypothesis and the Catholic (or, in fact, the entire, united, Church, before 1054) managed quite well without it, relying simply upon the clear words of Our Lord in the Gospels without any further gloss or explanation. In many ways, making belief in the pagan philosophical theory of transubstantiation a necessary component to being a Catholic of the Latin Rite might be argued to have done more harm than good.
XXVIII. Of the Lord's Supper. The Supper of the Lord is not only a sign of the love that Christians ought to have among themselves one to another, but rather it is a Sacrament of our Redemption by Christ's death: insomuch that to such as rightly, worthily, and with faith, receive the same, the Bread which we break is a partaking of the Body of Christ; and likewise the Cup of Blessing is a partaking of the Blood of Christ. Transubstantiation (or the change of the substance of Bread and Wine) in the Supper of the Lord, cannot be proved by Holy Writ; but is repugnant to the plain words of Scripture, overthroweth the nature of a Sacrament, and hath given occasion to many superstitions. The Body of Christ is given, taken, and eaten, in the Supper, only after an heavenly and spiritual manner. And the mean whereby the Body of Christ is received and eaten in the Supper, is Faith.
@ The important words are “Transubstantiation….cannot be proved by Holy Writ.” Now, in going on to say that it is repugnant to the plain words of Scripture, it is the superstitious understanding of the doctrine of transubstantiation by the ignorant which is addressed here. For example, I have met Catholics who were taught by uneducated nuns that, as the host dissolved on their tongue, its physical characteristics change from that of bread to that of human flesh. This is denied, of course, by the teaching of Trent, which states, unequivocally, that the “accidents” do not change. By the “accidents” is meant any quality of the bread or wine which might be discerned by any form of human science. So, those formulating Article 28 were aware of popular superstitions, some still current today, which are repugnant to the plain words of Scripture, since Our Lord does conclude his discourse in John 6 by summarising “It is the Spirit which gives life, the flesh is unavailing.” The Council of Trent was, in fact, endeavouring to address the criticisms levelled at the Church by the Reformers, by stating, quite clearly, that any charges that the Church taught “cannibalism” were totally unfounded. The Council taught that, since it would be utterly repugnant to any human being to eat the flesh, or to drink the blood of any other human being, Almighty God, in his infinite wisdom, had made it possible for us to truly eat the flesh of his Son and to drink his blood by eating and drinking what remained, at all times, to any form of human discernment, pure, unleavened wheaten bread and the fermented juice of the red grape. However, the Church has never been very good at Catechesis and it did not act to suppress popular piety and superstition, so that, even today, many Catholics do believe that something of a physical change does take place at the moment of consecration, despite the teachings of Trent.
Few people even know of the 39 articles, Anglican or otherwise or what they entail. They follow their church or parish custom and practice. Don't even ask them to sit in a different pew or attend a parish service in another benefice church. There are many people who abuse power, position and people in all churches and faiths.
Oh dear, what is Gavin going to ssy when the Roman Catholic Church declares Francis a heretic? He really does sound like some fanatical Catholic Truth Society pamphleteer from the 1950s.
Quite frankly I came to the conclusion in my 80's a while ago that I don't give a stuff what the Bishop, Priest, Pope, Archbishop, minister or pastor of any denomination says, does or thinks. I couldn't care less anymore. The Bible is my authority not them. True faith, fake faith. It's all become totally irrelevant. Every denomination thinks it has the answer, they're deluded. There is so much waffle, words, words and even more words said and done that are not in the Bible. Jesus is my authority, not the denomination I visit. --- Owen Dawe.
Your angle is nothing but hackneyed, ole fashioned Protestantism. A rejection of the authority which Our Lord established Himself with the Church He bequeathed mankind for its salvation. Christ is the center of our worship, not a book. No one is under any obligation to accept, nor take on the heresy and fallacy you have chosen to wrap your head around. What is man made, is your pretensions of possessing the truth and the sole means to redemption, while conveniently ignoring Christ's command, not suggestion, nor symbolic teaching, to eat His Body and drink His Blood, and to not do so, is not to have life within you. Reading the Bible, solely, is not the way, and has never been what Christ intended. It is nothing but a heresy cloaked within a thin mantle of piety.
Good afternoon, sorry for my ignoranc but I am not sure I got properly the merry controversy about Katherine's "with me". Would you enlightened my undestanding please ?
Those who watch regularly will know that they begin with the words ‘I’m Katherine…’ ‘I’m Gavin..’ but Katherine said instead ‘with me Katherine’ and it disrupted the usual pattern and rhythm that’s all
@@catholicunscriptedFor those of a Liturgical bent, any disruption to the pattern and rhythm is always, in its nature, however insignificant in substance, disconcerting.
None of them follow basic scripture, regards witnesses. The same happened with Peter in York. Church management look after themselves and each other. If catholicism is so good why is Italy like it is. I believe upon the Lord and not church management. Yes I'm an Anglican .It's just a club especially in the UK run by people who see it as a Career not a call to faith and the ministry of the Word to those in need. Liberal theology gone mad. So proud of themselves.
And the countries where the Roman tradition is the majority are 2nd and 3rd world countries (think Mexico, Spain, Latin America). Where Protestant churches are the majority, these countries are 1st world countries. Why?
Jesus said Where two or three are gathered in my name there am I in the midst of them. Jesus never disappoints. He cares nothing for validity dogma or magisterium . Jesus is for everyone not just for RCs. You come across as lacking in graciousness. How sad. I will pray for you
For two intelligent Christian people your comment pseudo priests as a Roman Catholic is very disrespectful. Please be more tolerant of other faiths. The World would be a better place. I work as a school Chaplain and we value ecumenism. One of my good friends is Re. Canon William Deverell of St. Maelruains Parish, Tallaght, Dublin, Ireland.
Who is an Anglican Priest. Talk to his Parishioners and they will tell you if he is a pseudo or not. Education leads to understanding 👏 understanding leads to RESPECT. Thank you.
Sorry, but I come from Oxford, where the Martyr's memorial is a permanent reminder of the blood on Rome's hands. Oh, and the earth does move, as Galileo reminds us.
They only built that memorial because Anti-Catholic sentiment at the University was waning and certain groups opposed this. While the Catholics oppressed and killed Protestants, the inverse occurred just as much. It's ridiculous to point fingers at this juncture.
Gavin, your construction of this matter is a bit of a fairy story. Take the log out of your own eye before launching screed shows like this. Confessions and. Repentance all around
Gavin wants England to be Catholic again - well if by 'Catholic' he means the Holy Orthodox Church then 'yes'. The Orthodox Church is the One, Holy, CATHOLIC and Apostolic Church founded by Christ ☦☦☦☦☦☦☦
Jamie from Irreverend Podcast said.. "No zeal like a convert. Ashenden is like a man who divorced and married another woman but is still obsessed with his first wife. Move on, Gavin!" Which we thought was an interesting comment.. Pax
It is not good that you are so condescending and disrespectful to your brothers and sisters in the Church of England with your self-regarding use of the term pseudo. I hope you might reconsider this in future.
The Northern Ireland Peer, Lord John Taylor, stated recently that the UK has only two routes, either Catholic or Muslim!! But it is a farrago of playing doctors and nurses, who claim Catholicism and like dressing up, but behind there is no substance at all!
@ I found my treasure about 55 years ago. His name is Jesus. Neither of your churches are safe, that has been proven many times over. Neither has sought any real forgiveness from the faithful. No genuine repentance. Both of these organisations are still steeped in their gold, their robes and their hierarchies. They all make me weep. I cannot be in a church any more for the deep sadness That overwhelms my soul. You are so distracted by your dogma and theology that you have no awareness of how deep the damage is. At the very point in history that we need devout and humble men to lead us through these desperate times. God help us.
At the Epiclisis I wasn't aware the Roman Catholic Church had the corner on the Holy Spirit. I still remain a faithful Anglo-Catholic, and would sincerely wish to stay in communion with the See of Canterbury. The Episcopal Church in the US is as misguided as the liberal misfits of the C of E. I'm offering a very careful prayer for the Anglican Church and Canterbury to take a radically different direction...GAFCON is nothing but a political side effect of the failure of leadership from Canterbury. Surely reasonable, faithful Anglican practices of faith are still around (not necessarily the Personal Ordinariate).
Christ, himself, said “Do this in remembrance of me” in reference to what became the Holy Sacrament. Why do you have a problem with repeating those words in the Anglican liturgy?
I think your history is one sided. Your blinded by failing to stay with church that educated you and people that trusted you as a shepherd. Judas did not like the truth that Jesus was teaching and left. The others stayed to spread the Gospels. It's seem to me you have gone from frying pan to another frying pan of abuse. Remember the Eucharist can not be blessed by any priest who has a abused children, nuns, fathered children and deserte mother and child. ( Mary is with child,Joseph stay with her. The priest has no option but to marry the mother. You can not hide behind a name as good knows from the heart of the abused you a guilty a sin that only their healing can let you near Christ resurrection. You can not con God with payments and pretending to be holy at the altar of fear you have created by such acts. Believe me the Eucharist is very precious and those priests valued it, they would on receive it as a lay person. God bless you all see the light. In all denominations to clean up Christ's church. Quality is better and stained quantity.
The Church of Rome is in Rome. That’s where the Roman Catholics are. Nowhere else. They are presided over by the Bishop of Rome. All other Bishops in communion with him are as much bishops as he is. They preside over their own churches (dioceses). An example: Catholics living in the Church (diocese) of Northampton are Northampton Catholics whose bishop is in communion with Rome. This, in essence, is in the Catholic Catechism.
I love Catholic Unscripted, may you all be blessed this Christmas and always, ♥
Thanks for defending the Catholic faith
HEAR HEAR
I like Gavin Ashenden's honesty. Thank you.
Thank you! As someone who is now just embarking on my conversion to Catholicism I really appreciate Gavin Ashenden. I left C of E many years ago and pursued all sorts of paths none of which filled the void. My late husand was Catholic (New Zealander) who always said he was "Catholic, retired" and now ironically I am adopting the true faith which he wanted nothing to do with. The Church of England came into being through a 'fit of pique' and greed of a monarch and it is looking like its end is near.
Welcome home!
Well done and welcome when your conversion takes place.
Don't forget the Pope refusing him adultery
The Church of England came into being so that King Henry VII could divorce his wife and marry his girlfriend, whom he later beheaded. It came into being through the persecution of many devout Catholics. Many, such as Saint Thomas More, Saint Edmund Campion, Saint John Fisher, and Saint Margaret were executed, with the last two being horribly tortured to death.
Remember The Holy Souls in Purgatory. Maybe your late husband could use your sufferings and your prayers. Praying for your conversion and your husband’s soul. You’re in my Eternal prayer basket.
Once again, it’s a superb explanation.. I think all our bishops should be doing 5.. 10 minute a week podcast like this.. keep up the great work, God bless
It's about time that the Catholic Church re-appointed their own Archbishop of Canterbury.
Yes - there has been an empty See since the deposition of Cardinal Reginald Pole.
@@Mark3ABE what a lovely thing that would be.
@@marydewar5675 There is already the See of Westminster - see Newman's Sermon on the Second Spring were he talks of the replacement of the old sees by new ones.
We have the Archbishop of Westminster.
@@Mark3ABE Just remember that God is bigger than we are. He wants us to be one in him - this means working together as grown up Christians and not falling into childish squabbling
A blessed Christmas and prosperous New Year to all at Catholic Unscripted.
As an anglican in RCIA i would contend with Fr Gavin's contention that he got to dress up and dine out on his previous position. I think for most (much?) of that, he was exactly where the Lord wanted him to be. There are many genuine Christians in protestantism.
As an Anglican, I have just walked out of my RCIA course with utter disbelief. If this example was supposed to be an introduction to the Catholic faith then I’m astonished at the lack of encouragement and enthusiasm and knowledge that I received from the deacon running the course. A missed opportunity on their part.
@@AWOLCHRISTIAN
You should investigate the pre Vatican 2 church, it might be what you are looking for. There are still groups such as the SSPX who only say the Latin Mass. It’s not only about what language in which the mass is said - it’s a different mass entirely and it’s part of our catholic tradition and history.
Well they tried to raise an issue that cannot be comprehended through the lens of 21st or even 20th century understanding of religion and of conscience. We are literally talking about a time in the 16th & 17th century where your obedience to WHATEVER the state religion was (Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, etc) wasn't only demanded but deviation from that was treated in the same light as treason or sedition. Real simple concept, you were either imprisoned or tortured until you recanted of your beliefs and got with the program or you were executed, end of story.
This whole concept of true or not true / believing or not believing was absolutely meaningless. Whatever the Sovereign said the state religion was you were commanded to submit to it without exception. People died to hold on to what they believed in and people died to force other people to profess to something they did not believe in.
@@jimh4072Well I am not in a position to travel over an hour every Sunday to do church.
You sound really frustrated and i feel for you. I suggest contacting the Personal Ordinariate. They are ex-Anglican and fully Catholic and are eminently capable of helping you, very approachable too.
Thanks!
Thank you both. God Bless 🙏🏻
Really love your discussions.
Thank you 🙏
Justice demands for the return of her Dowry. The Dowry belonging to The Holy Mother of God . Never forget, England IS Our Lady's Dowry. Pray for England's conversation back to The One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
+DEVS VVLT
Thank you for your channel which I enjoy immensely. I favour the Catholic church although not yet a member. Some CofE mitigation: (1) The BCP (2) The KJ Bible (3) The choral tradition - unrivalled in the world. Attending choral evensong in any of the big cathedrals is always for me spiritually uplifting and refreshing, due to its moderation and restraint, and sublime beauty of words and music (4) The many hundreds of thousands of good faithful lives (priestly and lay) lived out it its care since 1538 where the CE was all that was really available (5) The many Anglican martyrs in the C16 who suffered cruel and terrible deaths (6) A few exposed latter day abusers and dithering Bishops cannot cancel these things out.
Stay where you are.
Musical restraint is in danger of being lost, with too much loud, high singing and blaring organ these days. The Directors of music have mostly turned their backs on Weelkes and Tomkins.
Yes, stay where you are. We are praying for the CofE in the US.
@@vsts2004 I always listen to Choral Evensong on the Third Programme on the wireless and, of course, Songs of Praise on the television. To me, it is a miracle that Sir Keir Starmer, an atheist, has not yet ordered the suppression of these broadcasts.
@@Ken_oh545 they’re following the French. Personally I appreciate the shift
I hold my hand up and with joy I say that I am a Christian. We Christians are one family - all loved greatly by God.
I wish that the Vatican was as supportive about the TLM as they were the ordinariate
"as are the ordinariate?"
The Catholic Bishops in the UK are in a unique position to reclaim their rightful position as the true successors of the apostles and demand that the schismatic protestant Anglicans return the stolen property of the Catholic patrimony back to its proper owners. It is time to end the “cosmetic catholicism” of the Anglican sect, and again remind them that their holy orders “ have always been and continue to be absolutely null and utterly void.”
Gavin: thanks so much for all you are doing for the Catholic cause!! God bless, you, Katherine, and Mark!!!
I remember reading that Samuel Pepys was accused of saying that "The Church of England sprang out of Henry VIII codpiece"
It's quite correct. A secular construct that cosplays as a Christian religion.
Look at the state of it now. Then look at it's role in terms of social control since the reformation.
I am a Catholic. I was a victim of serious emotional abuse from Anglican vicars a few years ago.
Following my communications with the archdeacon, the head vicar of the parish wrote me an "apology" letter BEGINNING with : "I walk everyday in God's forgiveness."
Got it! Youre above me, and I'm but a lowly being. But THIS is not over, until God says it's over.
Tetilesti
There is a quiet revival of Catholicism going on. My local church has an orthdox, a few anglican, pentecostal, and lapsed catholics going through RCIA Currently 😊
From Pentecostal , Orthodox, Anglican to Catholicism you still need to move on to Biblical Christianity you have spent enough in heresy and blasphemy ,RCC. My prayers are with you
To the terror of Francis? I too will be starting, God willing, in September. I wonder if a pro Catholic movement is disturbing to the Vatican that has been furiously trying to modernize the church?
@@RobertO-vu4xb Catholicism is Biblical Christianity. The Catholic Church selected the books that went into the Bible at the Council of Rome in 392. For centuries, Catholic monks spent their lives copying Bibles word for word so that people who came later (we) would have them. The Bible is a Catholic book!
You have many misconceptions and ignorant assumptions. Have you picked up a Catholic Catechism and tried to educate yourself? God bless you!
A Christian revival - the Holy Spirit is at work in our midst - building bridges and knocking down walls and barriers. Blessed be God forever!
As an Anglican I agree with Gavin's analysis. At the heart of all this lies the issue of integrity. If you promote only 'company' men and women who have already sold their souls for a senior career or who lack the backbone and moral compass to stand up for truth and justice and instead remain silent and close ranks, what can one expect? We needed shepherds and the C of E establishment has given us hirelings.
Pray for wisdom and discernment to know what is truly of God and what is not. The Media and AI speak in ways that people swallow as truth. Many people have been hooked into this and many will follow and what will be their direction for others? We must watch our own words and actions
Thank you. Always excellent. Ave dulcissima Maria
Gavin Ashenden is clearly an intelligent man. He will have been aware of historical fact and Anglican liturgical language (concerning the Real Presence) all his adult life. Why, therefore, did he ever choose to be an Anglican, let alone an Anglican priest? I am seriously interested to know - as I'm an Anglican currently questioning my religious denomination.
Without the Church of England, the benefits we enjoy today in freedom, justice & prosperity would simply not exist.
@@sharpfokus1210 I so agree. The C of E is as she says she is: part of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Let’s be finished with sectarian bigotry whether it be Papist or any other form!
I loved this. Thank you for what you do❤
I am afraid that it is a gross misrepresentation of the teaching of the Church of England to suggest that, just because the Priest, in administering the Sacrament, both asserts that it is the Body of Christ and also that the Sacrament is administered in remembrance of Our Lord involves some form of ambiguity, in that the second statement negates the first. The Canon of the Mass repeats the words of Our Lord “do this in remembrance of me” and also the words “take and eat, this is my body” and I have never heard it suggested that the Canon should be treated as defective on the basis that the words “do this in remembrance of me” act to negate the words “this is my body”. This argument has no logical basis to it.
Procreation "do" role gifts and 'be' or "is" identity need of union are inseparable and qualitatively equal.
@ ?
@@oliverclark5604what????
The 39 Articles say the Eucharist isn’t to be worshiped or adored because it isn’t Jesus. They state very clearly He can’t be in two places at once. If the 39 Articles are representative of CofE teachings on the Eucharist (they’re supposed to be) then they don’t have the real Eucharist. I agree the canon argument isn’t the best. But there’s no legitimate defence of the choose what you fancy approach
@ No, Article 28 itself does not actually say that. That is what those in the evangelical wing of the Church of England wish it said, so they say that it does say it, even though it does not. Article 28 does clearly teach the real presence. It states in words of one syllable that it is a real partaking of the Body of Christ. There is no getting around that. The prohibition against reservation of the Sacrament is not stated to be based on a refusal to believe in the real presence, but the prohibition arises simply because Our Lord said to the Apostles “take and eat” so the clear instruction is to eat the bread, not to reserve it for adoration. Reservation and adoration are prohibited on the simple basis that there is no Scriptural authority for the practice. Since Article 28 has already taught, specifically, a belief in the real presence, the prohibition cannot possibly be, as you attempt to argue, on the basis that belief in the real presence is denied by this prohibition.
Unfortunately, the Roman Catholic Church has served as a worldwide example of the same coverup tactics as the C of E, only at a greater magnitude. We have witnessed over the years, whole dioceses in the US have become bankrupt, financially and spiritually, due to lawsuits over sexual abuse. However I completely understand Gavin's position in this issue and "the delicate balance".
This is true. In his last book “What is a Catholic”, published after his death, Pope Benedict XVI explains that, in the 1980’s, the Church decided to respond to the fall in vocations to the Priesthood by setting up homosexual clubs in seminaries and attracting seminarians by offering them the opportunity of living out their homosexual lifestyle in a discrete and protected way, funded by the Church. Now, I certainly would not judge the intentions of seminarians attracted in by this offer. It is perfectly possible that, apart from participating in a deception of the most serious kind (pretending to live a chaste, celibate, life, when this was not in fact the reality) they had a real love for the Lord, for the Church and a real calling to the pastoral ministry and for the salvation of souls. After all, the Church has always accepted that the presence of a moral flaw in the character of a Priest does not, necessarily, make him ineffective as a Priest. However, there is a great deal of difference in taking the odd swig of the communion wine and in raping young boys. It is now well established that former Cardinal MacCarrick required those seminarians who wished to advance their careers in the Church to spend the night in bed with him. Knowing of this, Pope Francis restored him to active ministry as a Cardinal and only reduced him to the lay state when he was forced to do so by criminal proceedings being commenced against him in the USA. Pope Francis is on record as saying that there was nothing wrong in Cardinal MacCarrick inviting young seminarians into his bed as long as they were over the age of consent. The Pope’s recent outburst, complaining that there was “troppo de frociaggine” amongst the Italian Clergy was triggered by his need, in his capacity as Primate of All Italy, to find the ever increasing sums of money needed to pay the legal costs, compensation, or hush money in respect of the explosion of sexual abuse amongst the (mainly homosexual) Italian Clergy. As to Pope Benedict XVIs book disclosing the practice of the Church in the 1980s, leading to this sorry state of affairs, it has, to all intents and purposes, been wholly suppressed by Rome.
Yup. As an American Catholic, it is with a heavy heart that I watch this video. I will say that to a certain degree the scandal here has been overblown by our old friends, the msm, BUT that doesn't negate the wrongs done by guilty clergy. Between the lies and the truth, it'll be a very long time before American Catholicism recovers, if it ever really does. I can't bring myself to judge other Christian churches for this tragedy, especially when our own prelates at the top can't seem to get their act togather. 🙄
Man ain't that the truth...@@katydidd6321
The debate about the Catholic mass is not over. I used 9 biblical arguments against the Catholic distortions of this doctrine
Thank you. I've learnt something new, the differences between both RC and CofE eye opening really.
You can see how cold his home is?
Love that. Keep it coming. Here in Germany I have the feeling that our catholic church is like the anglican church in the UK, like an institute and political left. Today I had the newspaper of our diocese in my hands and for me it did not look catholic. At least in the UK you can easily identify the anglican church, here we just call it catholic church, but it feels like anglican/protestant quite often.
Need to keep politics and relativism out of the Church Catholic.
Impossible to keep politics out of the Church. The Catholic Church, has tremendous influence in world matters.
This story sounds very much like ones we have heard over and over again about the Roman Catholic Church. Is the pot calling the kettle black?
"The future ofbthe Catholic Church is traditional" - Michael Knowles
Michael needs to quit his expensive cigars!😂😂😂
The only future of the Catholic Church is God - he's much bigger than we are and his ways are the greatest! Feeble human ideas are nothing compared to God's ways. Blessed be God forever!
The Orthodox Church is the One, Holy, CATHOLIC and Apostolic Church founded by Christ ☦☦☦
@@AWOLCHRISTIANWho are you? His mother?
Who demanded the killing of Christ? It wasn't the Hare Krishna's. Also, lose the Menorah!
Truth.
Maybe you should change the name of this channel to “Anti-Anglican unscripted”?
I agree all these revisionist and compromised Church of England bishops should step down. But Some of us think that Roman Catholics ought not be throwing stones about the mishandling of sexual abuse.
Well said.
Exactly. Talk about people in glass houses.
Has there never been a cover up in the Catholic Church ???
Very disappointed in what comes across as self-righteousness. If we name the name of Christ, we are called to a higher standard.
The Church of England owes the Catholic Church around 10,000 church buildings. It pretends it can do Holy Communion. It’s a dangerous crime operation, just an old one. There’s no point pretending this isn’t the case and pointing it out isn’t self righteous
Jesus is really present in my life!
The Anglican Church hasn't been Anglican for decades
I find it kind of revolting that this ex-Anglican is trying to blacken the Anglican Church by retailing the sexual misdeeds of its clergy and at the same time, claiming to propagandise for the Catholic Church as the virtuous alternative, while saying nothing at all about the centuries of sexual abuse by Catholic clerics that continues unabated to this day. I’m neither Catholic nor Protestant btw. This smells off!
My thoughts exactly. This is just double standards of the highest order!
@@pipmaurice Well, in a word, “yes”. A criticism against which it is difficult to argue.
Exactly. Talk about people in glass houses!
Alright then. Since you're neither Ctholic, nor Protestant, how about a discussion concerning sexual abuse running rampant in public schools and scouting members, and families themselves. Far more of that is going on, yet secularists, such as yourself, are eager to target churches.
I love you both’🙏 for you both!
I really think the Catholic Church should take a very long, hard look at it’s own moral and spiritual reflection before it can make any judgements about the Church of England. Both institutions are opposite sides of the same coin when considering the awful sexual and spiritual abuse scandals that have darkened their doors for decades. As an Anglican who has personally experienced both atrocities in my life, I am at a loss to express my utter disappointment and disgust at the behaviour of men and women within the Church who “profess God” and yet commit and cover up horrific sinful behaviour. Shame on any denomination that allows such evil. You will be judged and your victims will have their justice through Christ.
@@AWOLCHRISTIAN Amen. Chaucer writes, with contempt, about a sinful clergyman “a sh*tty shepherd, shepherding clean sheep”. Excuse the language - it is Chaucer’s, not mine.
Thank you for this.
@@DemoniodgSuch a heartless,
response but one that is typical and I should have expected.
One does not condemn the institution of the family because incest or sexual abuse within those families happens to occur. Way too much opinions driven by emotions and not tempered logic or reason. That being said, the failures of men does not deduce nor reduce the fact that the Catholic Church, remains Christ's one and only true Church. It is holy because its teachings remain holy no matter how badly men behave. The COE came into being because men refused to abide by the teachings of Christ Himself, and so they splintered off and created their own contrived version. Contrivance can only persist for so long, before the wheels begin to fall off. The easy, cheap target, that Protestants, atheists, Freemasons, leftists and liberal secularists, have made of the Catholic church has failed in stopping Her mission and destroying Her. She continues to thrive and is a living testimony of the promise Christ gave, which is to be with His gift and vessel for mankind's salvation, until the end of time. And so He has.
Brilliant return Gavin, from Kate's 1st serve.....
It's time to make Britain Catholic again!
@@Honeybee-z …and also (although this would be more of a challenge!) Northern Ireland.
Along with al the other faiths it would be great to bring all Christians together as one - just as we're meant to be
There are some very smart godly Anglican clerics coming up through the ranks ,well able to defend their view. Especially from Australia/New Zealand. I
Hard to understand anything other than Catholicism, as it was started by Jesus and wrote the New Testament. All other Christian churches are started by men who say they follow Jesus.
@@user-re2ss3jn8w The shared history (as they split off, keeping chunks of the theology) between Catholics and schismatics will prevent them from thinking of it that way.
What incredible arrogance. Those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones…..
Ashenden has reversed himself on questions he answered as an undergraduate. He has denounced himself. Many unanswered questions and he won't answer them.
Exactly.
My father who entered the Church from a Reformation congregation taught me Anglican/Episcopalianism was all the pageantry and none of the guilt. Modernist in the Church today will render it the same if unchecked.
is self righteousness the 8th gift of the holy spirit
There’s no self righteousness in calling out fake sacraments. It’s essential to spread the information. I fell victim to the Anglo Catholic pretence for my whole childhood
hocus hocus pocus and lies and delusions.
Talking of Oxford I think Gareth Bennett should be remembered well as he tried to bring into the open the corruption but was chased.
My goodness, the Crockford's case....when was that...1988 or so?
@Ken_oh545 little earlier, I think.
@marydewar5675 just checked, it was 87
@Ken_oh545 I've got the book about him, written by the late William Oddie (bless his soul), another convert.
My understanding is that the words anglicans use for their consecration come from zwnigly. When i was studying the reformrion the joke was that while calvin beliieved in the real presence zwingly believed in the real absense.
Fr David Tudor had his cases appealed. I did find it strange that he was promoted as he was, but unless you have information about him that is not 'public domain', you might speak with greater accuracy and some charity. I knew Fr Tudor, never liked him that much, but he was highly respected by his congregation.
I also met Archbishop Cottrell when he was Bishop of Chelmsford. For me, the greatest problem with him is that he is a political opportunist rather than a great Christian leader.
On the cover-up, the bishops should have asked the police to investigate. If a law has been broken eg under age sex, then it is a matter for the police.
Of interest read CONSTANTINE'S SWORD by James Carroll
I have. It is inconclusive. Pope John Paul I did have a weak heart and was taking digitalis. It is most likely that he died of an overdose. While the bottle was removed immediately following his death, it is possible to explain this by a concern to cover up any overdose. Such an overdose might have been quite inadvertent - the stress of the job might have caused the Pope to have heart pains and he might have taken a further dose in an effort to deal with this and not fully appreciated just how much he had taken. I do not think that he was deliberately murdered, but, of course, because of the lack of transparency at the Vatican, we shall never know the truth. Sorry - I see that this has appeared under the wrong post.
Gavin, I think you need to explain that you’ve misrepresented the Book of Common Prayer. The words at the giving of communion in the 1662 book are a combination of those given in the 1549 and 1552 books (consecutively). Your point about ambiguity is valid (and correct in my view) but please be truthful and accurate in your explanations (you owe your Anglican heritage at least that much).
@@revdrobertdesics8119 I agree. The Church of England (at least in so far as is taught by the Thirty-nine Articles) does not deny the doctrine of the real presence. In fact, Article 28 affirms the doctrine of the real presence, as clearly taught by the Sacred Scriptures. It causes some confusion by declining to apply the hypothesis of “transubstantiation” but this is on the basis that it is predicated on pagan Greek Scholastic Philosophy and that philosophy is not to be found clearly supported anywhere in the Sacred Scriptures. However, the crucial argument in favour of the teaching of the Church of England affirming the real presence is that the Eastern Orthodox Churches believe in the real presence and Rome does accept that they have a valid Eucharist but they do not adopt the hypothesis of transubstantiation in an effort to explain what they consider to be a Divine Mystery by a pagan human philosophical system and I think that, in this respect, our Eastern Orthodox brethren are much wiser that those of us in the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church. Properly understood, I do not see anything to contradict the teachings of the Sacred Scriptures in the version of transubstantiation adopted by the Church, however, the version adopted is heavily sanitised, to remove all of the pagan elements and to turn it into something which can be fitted into the teaching of Sacred Scripture. However, why bother? If it is possible to believe in the real presence without trying to explain it by human reasoning (as the Eastern Orthodox do) why introduce something which causes division and confusion?
I don’t agree that there is any ambiguity. The words “do this in remembrance of me” and “this is my body” both appear in the Canon of the Mass - but they do not negate each other.
Bear in mind that the Armada followed the murder of Mary Queen of Scots, and that Philip of Spain had been crowned KIng of England.
.....yes, the bad guys won.
And there is only, in this case, one head that rolls well enough. “I hope not literally. One of my predecessors in 1381, Simon of Sudbury, had his head cut off and it was then the peasants - the revolting peasants at the time - who played football with it at the Tower of London. “I don’t know who won. It certainly wasn’t Simon of Sudbury.”- Justin Wells's joke in the House of Lords. Appalling.
Gavin needs to see and read a few things, which show the hot house atmospheres of both the Church of England and the Roman Catholic Church. Trollope’s Barchester novels, Firbank’s Concerning the Eccentricities of Cardinal Pirelli, and the Marco Bellochio film My Mother’s Smile.
Watch SPOTLIGHT with Michael Keaton
Most awkward beginning ever. Unstuff thy shirts, friends. Lol
One can believe in the real presence without an Aristotean understanding of transubstantion when catholics talk about substance and the accidents.
Logically, that must be the case. Rome does accept that the Eastern Orthodox Churches have a valid Eucharist, even though they do not make use of the hypothesis of transubstantiation to explain the real presence. The hypothesis of transubstantiation is not inconsistent in any way with the doctrine of the real presence - it is, quite simply, unnecessary. Since it is an unnecessary addition to the Faith which causes confusion and misunderstanding, surely it would be better to make it an optional teaching, rather than requiring belief in it as a dogma under pain of anathema for declining to assent to it?
The Prayer of Humble Access clearly affirms that we (Anglicans who affirm Real Presence) are eating and drinking Christ’s Body and Blood.
According to a 2019 Pew Research Center survey, approximately 69% of self-identified Catholics in the United States believe that the bread and wine used in Holy Communion are symbols of the body and blood of Jesus Christ, rather than being the actual body and blood of Christ (the doctrine of the Real Presence). This means about 31% of Catholics adhere to the belief in Christ’s Real Presence in the Eucharist.
The study highlighted that belief in the Real Presence is significantly higher among Catholics who attend Mass weekly and those who are more religiously observant.
@@windowsoflifeI have met many Anglicans over the years who do sincerely believe in the doctrine of the real presence. Not only that, communion is treated with much more reverence than in many Catholic Churches, with the congregation filing up to the Altar rails, to kneel and receive the host and the cup from the Priest with an assistant holding a patten underneath to ensure that anything dropped or spilled does not end up on the floor. To assert a belief in the inerrancy of the Sacred Scriptures is to assert a belief in the real presence.
XXVIII. Of the Lord's Supper.
The Supper of the Lord is not only a sign of the love that Christians ought to have among themselves one to another, but rather it is a Sacrament of our Redemption by Christ's death: insomuch that to such as rightly, worthily, and with faith, receive the same, the Bread which we break is a partaking of the Body of Christ; and likewise the Cup of Blessing is a partaking of the Blood of Christ.
Transubstantiation (or the change of the substance of Bread and Wine) in the Supper of the Lord, cannot be proved by Holy Writ; but is repugnant to the plain words of Scripture, overthroweth the nature of a Sacrament, and hath given occasion to many superstitions.
The Body of Christ is given, taken, and eaten, in the Supper, only after an heavenly and spiritual manner. And the mean whereby the Body of Christ is received and eaten in the Supper, is Faith.
@ There are serious issues to be addressed. The hypothesis of “Transubstantiation” (which first requires a belief in pagan Greek Scholastic Philosophy) did not appear until many years after the foundation of the Church and it has never appeared in the Eastern Orthodox Churches. Yet Rome accepts that the Eastern Orthodox Churches do have a valid Eucharist. So, as a Philosopher, you must accept the inevitable logic of the argument that, if the Eastern Orthodox Churches can have a valid Eucharist, but not subscribe to the hypothesis of transubstantiation, the same logic must apply to the Church of England.
It is fascinating to speculate as to what might have happened if Queen Mary I and King Philip had been blessed with an heir. Would England have continued to remain Catholic? Possibly not. When King James II had a son, who would have become a Catholic Sovereign to succeed him, he was deposed by the Glorious Revolution of 1688. William and Mary were welcomed with overwhelming public support, and Parliament settled the Crown on Queen Anne and the Electress Sophia of Hanover and her heirs.
Probably yes.The Protestant exiles on the Continent were very worried at the success of Good Queen Mary as the English people were still very catholic.
Reconquista of England 🏴 !! Saint George guide us in spiritual battle!
Well done on the Dr Deepstate interview.
Yeah can’t wait for this
Whao! Where have I gone and put my dictionary?🤨🙃! Good sound echo soundings and depth charges. Me not deep though. Good listen...and to take in such interesting perspectives. Gavin perhaps should be a priest.
The Protestant faith has obviously been well thought out and has to be based on good solid foundations or it would not have taken hold as it has. Even a read of George Eliot that goes back to around the time of the Catholic Emancipation Bill gives an inkling of how it was.
Perhaps the first Protestants where those who had to take a walk when Jesus pointed to the spot about the Last Supper.
How better way I suppose could you be able to remember him than by such a miracle as his real presence, to refresh, turn over like a wheel, regenerate: his BEING in you and you in him.
In what way though does the Holy Spirit fit in?
Everyone knows what Henry 8th did in the 15th century.
what a dreadful, nasty, bitter, and bigotted piece
Thank you
Pot calling kettle black
I remember when Vincent Nichols was Bishop of Birmingham
Archbishop.
as critical of the church of England and at the same time a father talking to your son, I see a discrepancy with faith. As a ministry , Catholic one, you should have been a single man...one without a son or a daughter. I am happy to believe that you are a blessed man having a bit of the two faiths. should you have a desire of unity and not separation between Catholicism and Anglicanism, I as an ordinand in the C of E dream with the time of mutual love and respect.
People in glass houses should not throw stones
Not sure about glass, but the Catholic Church is built on rock, not sand
@@catholicunscriptedA rock can be pulverised!!
@@catholicunscriptedRocks can be pulverised didn’t you know?
I am looking forward to hearing Mrs Bennett explain the hydrolastic suspension. I once had a Morris 1100 - nothing has ever really bettered its hydrolastic suspension.
I am not sure that the Church of England refuted the real presence, at least at the time the Thirty-nine Articles were formulated (I appreciate that hardly any Anglicans now believe all of them and some do not believe any of them). Article 28 reads:- “The Supper of the Lord is not only a sign of the love that Christians ought to have among themselves one to another, but rather, it is a Sacrament of our Redemption by Christ’s death insomuch as to such as rightly, worthily, and with faith receive the same, the Bread which we break is a partaking of the Body of Christ; and likewise, the cup of Blessing is a partaking of the Blood of Christ.” Now, the word “partaking” means to eat and drink in its usual meaning, so that the Church of England did, originally teach that Holy Communion involved eating Christ’s body and drinking his blood. Article 28 does go on to decline to accept the hypothesis of “transubstantiation” but this is on the basis that it is not to be found in Sacred Scripture. It is founded, of course, on Greek Scholastic Philosophy and this only came to light, once again, after the Dark Ages. So the particular hypothesis of transubstantiation, founded as it is on a school of philosophy not available to the Church until many hundreds of years after it was founded, cannot be an essential doctrine of the Faith. For example, Rome does recognise that the Eastern Orthodox Churches do have a valid Eucharist, even though they do not subscribe to the hypothesis of transubstantiation. In any event, I have yet to meet a Catholic who understands what “transubstantiation” actually means. Many Catholics consider that the supposed “Eucharistic Miracles” prove the hypothesis of transubstantiation. In fact, of course, the reverse is true. The Council of Trent defines, as a dogma, that the “accidents” do not change, so that, to assert that the ”accidents” have changed is to deny the teaching of Trent. Properly understood, the true doctrine of transubstantiation does make it quite clear that the change which takes place at the moment of consecration is purely a spiritual, or mystical, change and that no scientific analysis, however, minute, would ever discern any alteration in the chemical, physical, biological, molecular or sub molecular characteristics of either the bread or the wine. So, Catholics take the view, that, if the Church of England does not accept the hypothesis of transubstantiation, the result must be to deny the “real presence” but that is not so. It is perfectly possible to believe in the real presence without applying a pagan philosophical argument to try to explain the mystery. The Eastern Orthodox have the real presence without this hypothesis and the Catholic (or, in fact, the entire, united, Church, before 1054) managed quite well without it, relying simply upon the clear words of Our Lord in the Gospels without any further gloss or explanation. In many ways, making belief in the pagan philosophical theory of transubstantiation a necessary component to being a Catholic of the Latin Rite might be argued to have done more harm than good.
XXVIII. Of the Lord's Supper.
The Supper of the Lord is not only a sign of the love that Christians ought to have among themselves one to another, but rather it is a Sacrament of our Redemption by Christ's death: insomuch that to such as rightly, worthily, and with faith, receive the same, the Bread which we break is a partaking of the Body of Christ; and likewise the Cup of Blessing is a partaking of the Blood of Christ.
Transubstantiation (or the change of the substance of Bread and Wine) in the Supper of the Lord, cannot be proved by Holy Writ; but is repugnant to the plain words of Scripture, overthroweth the nature of a Sacrament, and hath given occasion to many superstitions.
The Body of Christ is given, taken, and eaten, in the Supper, only after an heavenly and spiritual manner. And the mean whereby the Body of Christ is received and eaten in the Supper, is Faith.
@ The important words are “Transubstantiation….cannot be proved by Holy Writ.” Now, in going on to say that it is repugnant to the plain words of Scripture, it is the superstitious understanding of the doctrine of transubstantiation by the ignorant which is addressed here. For example, I have met Catholics who were taught by uneducated nuns that, as the host dissolved on their tongue, its physical characteristics change from that of bread to that of human flesh. This is denied, of course, by the teaching of Trent, which states, unequivocally, that the “accidents” do not change. By the “accidents” is meant any quality of the bread or wine which might be discerned by any form of human science. So, those formulating Article 28 were aware of popular superstitions, some still current today, which are repugnant to the plain words of Scripture, since Our Lord does conclude his discourse in John 6 by summarising “It is the Spirit which gives life, the flesh is unavailing.” The Council of Trent was, in fact, endeavouring to address the criticisms levelled at the Church by the Reformers, by stating, quite clearly, that any charges that the Church taught “cannibalism” were totally unfounded. The Council taught that, since it would be utterly repugnant to any human being to eat the flesh, or to drink the blood of any other human being, Almighty God, in his infinite wisdom, had made it possible for us to truly eat the flesh of his Son and to drink his blood by eating and drinking what remained, at all times, to any form of human discernment, pure, unleavened wheaten bread and the fermented juice of the red grape. However, the Church has never been very good at Catechesis and it did not act to suppress popular piety and superstition, so that, even today, many Catholics do believe that something of a physical change does take place at the moment of consecration, despite the teachings of Trent.
Few people even know of the 39 articles, Anglican or otherwise or what they entail. They follow their church or parish custom and practice. Don't even ask them to sit in a different pew or attend a parish service in another benefice church. There are many people who abuse power, position and people in all churches and faiths.
Oh dear, what is Gavin going to ssy when the Roman Catholic Church declares Francis a heretic? He really does sound like some fanatical Catholic Truth Society pamphleteer from the 1950s.
How necessary the Reformation was, particularly Puritanism!
You just can’t stay away can you Maureen?
Amazing you’ve got Dr Deepstate !!! Can’t wait to see this !! Are you going to have Theo Howard on next?? Or Lali from Interpreting Tradition??
Quite frankly I came to the conclusion in my 80's a while ago that I don't give a stuff what the Bishop, Priest, Pope, Archbishop, minister or pastor of any denomination says, does or thinks. I couldn't care less anymore. The Bible is my authority not them. True faith, fake faith. It's all become totally irrelevant. Every denomination thinks it has the answer, they're deluded. There is so much waffle, words, words and even more words said and done that are not in the Bible. Jesus is my authority, not the denomination I visit. --- Owen Dawe.
Your angle is nothing but hackneyed, ole fashioned Protestantism. A rejection of the authority which Our Lord established Himself with the Church He bequeathed mankind for its salvation. Christ is the center of our worship, not a book. No one is under any obligation to accept, nor take on the heresy and fallacy you have chosen to wrap your head around. What is man made, is your pretensions of possessing the truth and the sole means to redemption, while conveniently ignoring Christ's command, not suggestion, nor symbolic teaching, to eat His Body and drink His Blood, and to not do so, is not to have life within you. Reading the Bible, solely, is not the way, and has never been what Christ intended. It is nothing but a heresy cloaked within a thin mantle of piety.
Good afternoon, sorry for my ignoranc but I am not sure I got properly the merry controversy about Katherine's "with me". Would you enlightened my undestanding please ?
Those who watch regularly will know that they begin with the words ‘I’m Katherine…’ ‘I’m Gavin..’ but Katherine said instead ‘with me Katherine’ and it disrupted the usual pattern and rhythm that’s all
@@catholicunscriptedFor those of a Liturgical bent, any disruption to the pattern and rhythm is always, in its nature, however insignificant in substance, disconcerting.
None of them follow basic scripture, regards witnesses. The same happened with Peter in York. Church management look after themselves and each other. If catholicism is so good why is Italy like it is. I believe upon the Lord and not church management. Yes I'm an Anglican .It's just a club especially in the UK run by people who see it as a Career not a call to faith and the ministry of the Word to those in need. Liberal theology gone mad. So proud of themselves.
And the countries where the Roman tradition is the majority are 2nd and 3rd world countries (think Mexico, Spain, Latin America). Where Protestant churches are the majority, these countries are 1st world countries. Why?
Jesus said Where two or three are gathered in my name there am I in the midst of them. Jesus never disappoints. He cares nothing for validity dogma or magisterium . Jesus is for everyone not just for RCs. You come across as lacking in graciousness. How sad. I will pray for you
Simplistic nonsense.
@@andrewmiles3378and the heavy burden of systemic dogma is a refreshing alternative!!???
@@andrewmiles3378.......and your heavy handed dogmas are a refreshing alternative??
@@andrewmiles3378 That is not so, my friend
Blessed be God forever!
🤔🤝
Dr. Haugen? Let's go!!!! 💯🥳
For two intelligent Christian people your comment pseudo priests as a Roman Catholic is very disrespectful. Please be more tolerant of other faiths. The World would be a better place. I work as a school Chaplain and we value ecumenism. One of my good friends is Re. Canon William Deverell of St. Maelruains Parish, Tallaght, Dublin, Ireland.
Who is an Anglican Priest. Talk to his Parishioners and they will tell you if he is a pseudo or not. Education leads to understanding 👏 understanding leads to RESPECT. Thank you.
Which is why you should read Apostolicae Curae!
Sorry, but I come from Oxford, where the Martyr's memorial is a permanent reminder of the blood on Rome's hands. Oh, and the earth does move, as Galileo reminds us.
They only built that memorial because Anti-Catholic sentiment at the University was waning and certain groups opposed this. While the Catholics oppressed and killed Protestants, the inverse occurred just as much. It's ridiculous to point fingers at this juncture.
Gavin, your construction of this matter is a bit of a fairy story. Take the log out of your own eye before launching screed shows like this. Confessions and. Repentance all around
Gavin wants England to be Catholic again - well if by 'Catholic' he means the Holy Orthodox Church then 'yes'. The Orthodox Church is the One, Holy, CATHOLIC and Apostolic Church founded by Christ ☦☦☦☦☦☦☦
Arrogant.
Are you? Well, never mind, none of us is perfect!
@@Mark3ABE Arrogance is a void of charity and an absence of empathy.
Get your own house in order! The authority is with the Orthodox Church.
Amin! ☦☦☦
Constantine XI died catholic. Your church was started by muslim turks
Jamie from Irreverend Podcast said..
"No zeal like a convert.
Ashenden is like a man who divorced and married another woman but is still obsessed with his first wife.
Move on, Gavin!"
Which we thought was an interesting comment.. Pax
It is not good that you are so condescending and disrespectful to your brothers and sisters in the Church of England with your self-regarding use of the term pseudo. I hope you might reconsider this in future.
The Northern Ireland Peer, Lord John Taylor, stated recently that the UK has only two routes, either Catholic or Muslim!! But it is a farrago of playing doctors and nurses, who claim Catholicism and like dressing up, but behind there is no substance at all!
Taylor is wrong - the best and highest future would be Orthodoxy ☦☦☦
Talk about pot and kettle. 🙄
Except one is a broken pot with no treasure and the other is a broken pot holding treasure. Take your pick.
@ I found my treasure about 55 years ago. His name is Jesus. Neither of your churches are safe, that has been proven many times over. Neither has sought any real forgiveness from the faithful. No genuine repentance. Both of these organisations are still steeped in their gold, their robes and their hierarchies. They all make me weep. I cannot be in a church any more for the deep sadness That overwhelms my soul. You are so distracted by your dogma and theology that you have no awareness of how deep the damage is. At the very point in history that we need devout and humble men to lead us through these desperate times. God help us.
A Karen I see!
@@Karen-i7d6pAbsolutely correct dear sister. The Church has been failing it’s flocks for years, even centuries.
@@Karen-i7d6pAmen sister!!
At the Epiclisis I wasn't aware the Roman Catholic Church had the corner on the Holy Spirit. I still remain a faithful Anglo-Catholic, and would sincerely wish to stay in communion with the See of Canterbury. The Episcopal Church in the US is as misguided as the liberal misfits of the C of E. I'm offering a very careful prayer for the Anglican Church and Canterbury to take a radically different direction...GAFCON is nothing but a political side effect of the failure of leadership from Canterbury. Surely reasonable, faithful Anglican practices of faith are still around (not necessarily the Personal Ordinariate).
Look to Holy Orthodoxy - now that's Apostolic Succession ☦☦☦
If you want Apostolic succession then go to Holy Orthodoxy ☦☦☦
Read IN GOD'S NAME by David Yallop
How can Gavin subscribe to heretic Catholic doctrines?
Really must make you wonder, huh? 🤔
Invalid orders. Null and void.
Christ, himself, said “Do this in remembrance of me” in reference to what became the Holy Sacrament. Why do you have a problem with repeating those words in the Anglican liturgy?
Confused, sorry
I think your history is one sided. Your blinded by failing to stay with church that educated you and people that trusted you as a shepherd. Judas did not like the truth that Jesus was teaching and left. The others stayed to spread the Gospels. It's seem to me you have gone from frying pan to another frying pan of abuse. Remember the Eucharist can not be blessed by any priest who has a abused children, nuns, fathered children and deserte mother and child. ( Mary is with child,Joseph stay with her. The priest has no option but to marry the mother. You can not hide behind a name as good knows from the heart of the abused you a guilty a sin that only their healing can let you near Christ resurrection. You can not con God with payments and pretending to be holy at the altar of fear you have created by such acts. Believe me the Eucharist is very precious and those priests valued it, they would on receive it as a lay person. God bless you all see the light. In all denominations to clean up Christ's church. Quality is better and stained quantity.
What a lot of confused nonsense!
I'm cofused, aren't the Orthodox the "original" church?
Please remenber that the correct and accurate phrase is Roman Catholic.
The Church of Rome is in Rome. That’s where the Roman Catholics are. Nowhere else. They are presided over by the Bishop of Rome. All other Bishops in communion with him are as much bishops as he is. They preside over their own churches (dioceses). An example: Catholics living in the Church (diocese) of Northampton are Northampton Catholics whose bishop is in communion with Rome. This, in essence, is in the Catholic Catechism.
Exactly so Mr Grayshon
Yes! Orthodoxy IS the Church founded by the Lord Jesus Christ ☦☦☦
@@rogersponge6153 - Orthodoxy IS the Church founded by the Lord Jesus Christ ☦
The Eastern Orthodox Church is the only true church. I'm afraid you've got some more converting to do, my friend, if you want to be right.
No no, only Baptists will be found in heaven ...
Amin!! ☦☦☦
Hogwash. All of it Hogwash.