I find a rich historic and vibrant Catholicism within Anglicanism. No need to go elsewhere, though I look favorably at Orthodoxy. Not Roman Catholicism any more.
As a mother and grandmother, when I see and hear Cottrell my flesh crawls. It's instinctive. As a "ps" I found Welby's resignation speech pathetic and full of hubris when the situation called for deep, honest, sincere regret and apology.
This is a strange question. Who can be fit to lead an unfit institution? The church of England was a failure from its (secular, Henry VIII) inception. I love Gavin, because he has courage and speaks boldly, even if it's not always 'polite'. God Bless him.
@@aclark903 I do get the impression that Anglican Protestantism was more imposed from the top down in England, than a grass roots development... compared to let's say Lutheran Germany. There were lots of people in England, probably the majority, who would have been perfectly happy to have remained Catholic, had it not been for a despot king Henry number 8 and his many wives. In fact, there was a lot of legal compulsion for the next few centuries to attend an Anglican church, face fines... or worse. The Church of England never really captured the hearts and minds of the majority of English people, and it shows in many ways.
@@clavichord Well I would agree that just about everyone during the 1500s who took Christ seriously was either Catholic or Puritan. The Anglicans were the ones who went along to get along. Kind of like your Pope Francis’s cardinals.
@aclark903 I've stopped listening to Bergoglio (aka Francis) and his cardinals, a long time ago. They can say what they like, I'm not listening to them. And, these days, they have very little power to legally impose their will on me
@aclark903 Puritans did take their religion seriously, I just wouldn't have wished to have lived under their rule, as I don't see eye to eye with their theology
I once heard a radio play concerning the appointment of a new Archbishop of Canterbury. The main candidate was known for his piety, but his wife felt compelled to warn the selection committee that he actually believed in God.
Calling other Christians idiots, academically deficient ( a mere Polytechnic degree) and celebrants of bumming etc. ? I am currently re reading Ratzinger's What it Means to be a Christian, sermons filled with clarity, compassion, love and generosity of spirit ( see third sermon in particular). This and Dorothy Day's painfully honest diaries ( she was cited by Benedict in one of his final homilies) will sustain and encourage me, I wholeheartedly recommend both books. I suppose I just can't understand why one would desire to ridicule others on a public forum in such a personal way but clearly there are others happy to cast the first stone.
At first I wasn’t sure your topic was of interest as I am an American Cradle Catholic… but as I am listening to your information, I realized to better understand the church of England is to fervently pray for them… and my husband’s family was Anglican so even more to pray 🙏thank you for the enlightenment!
Understand that the Church of England represents only a minority of Anglican, a far more number of which worldwide distance themselves from what is happening within it. Is not the Vatican equivocating on the same abandonment of traditional biblical morals which has brought down the Church of England?
As a former Anglo-Catholic now partaking in RCIA, it is my position that the Church of England is functionally apostate and should be dissolved. I hope more Anglicans realise this and return to the Catholic Church as I did. Edit: if an Anglican reads this and takes issue, I direct you to Apologia pro Vita Sua by John Newman.
I too left the Church of England and am currenly partaking in RCIA. I approached the Catholic Church with an open heart and mind and it is the best thing I could have ever done!
@@JosephCapelli I am glad you are continuing to practise your faith. Probably about ten percent of the parishioners of the Anglican church I attend is Roman Catholic.
@@willx9352 About the same as the number of Roman Catholics who attend my Parish Church. And Gavin, as a former member of General Synod at the same time as me, knows that what he said about the CofE and sexuality is incorrect. There is a large number of us who continue to believe that the only place for sexual activity is by one man and one woman who are married. Any other form of sexual activity is sinful.
Gavin needs to knock that chip off his shoulder, exude some humility, and acknowledge that if he himself was able and willing to serve as a priest in the C of E for over 30 years, then he should acknowledge and respect the fact that other faithful Christians are also happy to do so, rather than insulting them. Yes, our Church (the CofE) is in a mess - thanks mainly to a small number of incompetent bishops - much like your own Church. And there is really no need to ridicule or insult those clergy who may have what you regard as inferior educational awards or training. For God's sake there is enough bitterness in this world without adding to it. Please, get off your high horse, humble yourself and be thankful for Christians whoever and wherever they may be. Yes, I am a Protestant Anglican - because I believe in the Reformers arguments against Roman Catholicism, and your arguments in this video do nothing to alter that belief. I do respect and cherish the presence of a well established Roman Catholic church in our town, and I am very grateful for their presence, and always will be.
Amen! American Anglican here that prays for our CofE family - that you'll be strong despite some weak leadership. I hate the bickering that comes from so many sides and believe it gives the Enemy of our souls a foothold in our heats and in our churches.
I'm often surprised that Roman Catholics have any basis for criticizing the Church of England in any form. Roman Catholic Church is riddled with worst moral decadence of all Churches and things are made worse by the fumbling of the pappacy in recent years. Roman Catholic offers nothing now that is worthy of credit.
As a former Anglican, I weep for my old church, I owe a lot to them. I just can't understand why Francis and his supporters want to go down this road to ruin. The way things are going, there won't be a Church of England in a few decade's time.
I'm Catholic and not British and I thought all the while that the appointing power in the CofE is the monarch. But if it's parliament that does that, then it's pretty assured that the next Archbishop of Canterbury will be the wrong person.
The Sovereign does not personally make the choice, but simply confirms the decision of the Prime Minister, except in the case of a “Royal Peculiar” , where the Sovereign does have a personal choice.
Bernard Woolley and Jim Hacker in “Yes, Prime Minister, The Bishop’s Gambit”, discussing the selection of a new Bishop. JH: Couldn't we let the Holy Ghost decide now? BW: No one's confident the Holy Ghost would know what makes a good Church of England bishop.
@@aceairstream Transparency might be applicable to all clergy regardless of church affiliation. How many would be cooperative in making their seminary transcripts transparent, i.e. publicly accessible? 🤔
The Church of England,'s reputation is down the toilet. The new Archbishop of Canterbury is not fit for purpose. The lady whistle blower on the whole affair should be in charge .
20:30 OMG! We ran out of gas-fired power stations last week, and now we only have a week's worth of gas left. No wonder the CoE is in such a bad state. It's good to get some clarification, no matter who does it or the subject under discussion.
This is Dr Guli Francis-Dehqani, who we mentioned in this chat. Cottrell was the bishop of Chelmsford before he was translated to York so Francis-Dehqani probably knows quite a bit about the scandal Cottrell is embroiled in.
Great advice!!! No doubt some feel intimidated to keep the offense in-house. No, my friends, they, the Church, regardless, will be thinking of liability. 🤨
Galatians 5: "You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love." What many people don't understand is the difference between love and lust...astoundingly.
If anything, this is an opportunity for the C of E to correct it's course away from relativistic MBA's and to a strong, Catholic theologically oriented churchman.
Thank God most of Anglicanism is not aligned with the Church of England and Anglican truths of history and theology will not suffer demise. Roman Catholics should not gloat over what is happening in the Church of England and look to their house.
How much more would minds be boggled by disclosure of how many courses in scripture, theology, and patristics appear on seminary transcripts, if people were only to see them. 🤔
If Pope Francis was held to the same standards that Welby and Cottrell et al have been held to, he'd also have to resign in deep disgrace. Why do you people carry on about the problems in the Anglican Church and never open any of the vast number of all too similar cases in the RCC?
I was serving on Canvey with the individual concerned. It’s worth noting it was the law of the land that was telling us DT had to be treated as an innocent man because the charges were quashed. It was illegal to even refer to time served. This isn't reported by the press, but it does explain some parts of this chapter.
The big problem generally is the decline of theological education in the CofE.....apart from N.T.Wright, how many scholar-bishops have there been in the last 50 years??
I’m no fan of Archbishop of York, but I’m not sure it’s any of your business particularly. It just becomes another opportunity for an ad hominem attack on the CofE, an ecclesial body Mr Ashenden decided to leave. Tip: once the hand is to to the plough…
What makes this concerning is that the Catholic Church is full of similar problems. Christianity being divided is bad enough, but on top of that, It isn't good for Christianity when any group of Christian heirachy fail so miserably in their responsibilities.
I suggest, with what has happened in Rome of late, the Ordinariate move to the ACNA. It seems the Ordinariate has been treated as a second class membership. Is the overall objective absorption? Look to what has happened to the Byzantine Rite, despite disclaimers.
Not sure what you’re all going on about. If you don’t have anyone who fits the bill exactly, you choose the least worst. If you don’t like it that they are women, then say so. It is a legitimate opinion. Anyway, that’s the business of the Anglican Church. As Catholics we wish them well and we do what we can do as Catholics to improve the world. Does the Anglican Church really have that much impact on Christianity or even English society ? I doubt it.
@@melarrow6202 From my personal experience, Anglican historians, e.g. A History of the Church in England by J. R. H. Moorman and Divine Commission by Frank E. Wilson, are pretty accurate. Church histories by Roman Catholic authors seem to be typified by omissions. I have surprised bloggers by quotations from Divine Commission. They didn't know. It may not be an issue of having been kept a secret as having been kept from knowing. I once taught in a large diocesan high school which did not even have a world history class. 🙂
Nothing succeeds like failure. After San Diego diocese has received a bill for 600 million dollars for 450 abuse victims... The only qualification which McElroy has from Pope Francis' point of view is that he is opposed to Trump on immigration.
1) Mgr. Glenn’s TOUR OF THE SUMMA is a useful condensed Aquinas, and 2) Look up good old Peter Simple’s comic trendy CofE Bishop Spacely-Trellis, who is PRICELESS!
"Overpromoted" (Gavin). This term encapsulates Cotterell perfectly. Buyt it also describes the majority of the current 'DEI' bishops of the C of E. They are "career clerics" par excellence: mouthing the right words; but entirely lacking in any theological substance. Like Gavin, I have an awareness - through studying Theology - how little I know of the Creator of all that 'is'. The closest we can get to perceiving what God is like is the historic figure, and the teachings, of Jesus of Nazareth. The advantage of being Roman is that you have genuine scriptural and Christological scholars at the 'top'; leading your Church. Even better, Gavin; "People in the image of Welby" in the C of E episcopate. Thus, there is no-one wioth the competence, and genuine Christian belief, of (for example) Professor Martyn Percy) who is likely to be appointed as ABC. The C of E is entirely bereft of talent and leadership. In my adolescence, as a churchgoer, I knew the name of almost every diocesan bishop. Today - admittedly from outside of the C of E - I know hardly any of them (and those I do know is because of their notoriety: not scholarship). Welby wanted a "managerial Church" (as pointed out by Martyn Percy in his book; 'The Future Shapes of Anglicanism'); and so he has created a bureaucratic "managerial Church". Of course, Globalist-Communists always use bureaucracy to destroy the Institutions for which they atre responsible. And so we have the twin edifices of 'Safeguarding' and 'DEI' in order to accomplish precisely that. Job well done, WELBY and COTTERELL! Kathryn is right to raise the spectre of 'homosexuality' within the Churches: but please remember, only 'spiritually-sick' homosexuals who lack integrity remain within the Church: especially among the clergy.
One of my problems with the Catholic Church is that it expects so much in terms of moral behaviour and yet it offers so little support. I am sorry but the confessional is insufficient in terms of giving people the support they need to change. It is easy for the Church to say that homosexual sex is 'disordered' but its much harder to offer the support such people would need to change.
Pope Francis' relegation of the somewhat ambivalent conclusions of the Synod on Synodality to the Magisterium leaves in question what support for change is to be expected in the future and where inside or outside confession.
We are fortunate in our parish, since the priest only has two other parishes to manage. I asked him for confession before Mass and he asked if it could wait. I decided to take that as a conditional absolution. My reply to you is that we are largely on our individual resources, which are inadequate but we know what to do about that - we talk to the organ grinder, as they say.
@@luciadegroseille-noire8073 Interesting. It raises the question who is responsible for the shortages of priests, a hierarchy resolutely holding onto celibacy or the laity generally who think the celibacy requirement for priests has always existed or who do not want to support married clergy. And, in these blogs, the additional question comes up for the clergy who do exist, what are their qualifications, not only in moral conduct, but in what they know of scripture, theology, patristics, pastoral counseling, parish management, etc. 🙂
Mark concludes, very appropriately “It doesn’t matter what Pope Francis says.” I agree. I never pay any attention to what he says. So, for all practical purposes, we might as well not have a Pope. I sometimes think that, these days, the Eastern Orthodox are much better off. They do not have a Pope, so there is no one trying to persuade them that what they have believed for two thousand years now needs to be revised in light of modern thinking. They are required to simply believe what is clearly taught in the Sacred Scriptures and what has been defined by the first seven Ecumenical Councils of the Church (that is, those held while the Church was still wholly united, before the Great Schism). Once you give someone in the Church absolute power (Papal Infallibility) then you run the risk that a rogue Pope can derail the Church by teaching contrary to the deposit of the Faith - and no one has any formal authority to stop him.
While Gavin might have been a little too “direct” in his language, it is important that anyone in a position of pastoral responsibility should correctly state the true teaching of the Church. Homosexuality is wrong - no ifs, no butts”.
Heard a very interesting nugget from an exorcist the other day. Fallen angels will try their damndest to get people to indulge in homosexuality but, being pure spirits made in the essence of God, are repelled by it themselves and cannot watch. I shall not name the Demons concerned, but it was quite fascinating.
In The Screwtape Letters, CS Lewis depicts demons being utterly bored and indifferent to sex, their only interest being how to subvert it it to lead humans away from God. The demonic school's lessons on how to tempt humans using sex are described as unbearably tedious, but necessary.
I recently heard two Bishops saying what an incredibly talented man Cottrell was. Im assuming they know him pretty well. As always, time will tell. Personally Ive never been a fan. Ive been a Church goer for 40 years and have never seen the slightest hint of abuse. Thats not to say I dont believe its happening. But perhaps the extent of it is somewhat overblown.
Are we in danger of the pot calling the kettle black? Here in Plymouth, we are still (after over two and a half years since Mark left for Cardiff) waiting for a bishop to be inaugurated. Do all Christian churches have difficulty in appointing bishops/archbishops? Has it become an impossible job/calling?
Is it true that the panel of 18 who will choose the next archbishop….have their hands tied into choosing another man as there is a strong squad of conservative bods who don’t believe in the ordination of women . So they would block any attempt at appointing a lady . ?
"Is Cottrell fit to lead?" But is the C of E still fit to lead?! Indeed, better for the unfit to lead the unfit, then those who are fit will see clearly and want to leave. "For the time is near: therefore, let him who does wrong continue to do wrong, and he who is vile continue to be vile. And let him who does right continue to do right, and he who is holy continue to be holy." (Rev 22:11) This seems to me to be the order of the day. Indeed, has not the Catholic Church entered this same unsavoury arena?
I recall in the early days of Pfizer's introduction of Viagra, the Church of England invested heavily in Pfizer Pharmaceuticals. Not sure how this later evolved...
Gavin need not bother about reading Thomas Aquinas. The only thing he needs to know about his writings is that they are ‘like straw’. And who are we to argue with that?!
What happens in the C of E is not our business but as citizens we should complain that they have any power at all in parliament. And don't get me started on that pantomime artist King Charles !!!
What do you expect when a pope and 140 papally appointed cardinals run a church, i.e. if you are speaking of the Roman Catholic Church. The Church of England is a runner-up, with interference of a secular government. God, you know, may perfectly work from the bottom, grassroots, up just as well as from the top down. 🤔
No! This individual is part of the cover up. He should resign or sacked. The majority of Bishops don’t believe in the truth of Scripture and therefore don’t preach it. If you are a good person they believe all is well but without believing Biblical authority and true repentance, without consistent habitual wrongdoing or sin, Salvation is not assured.
I wish we still had the Eleusinian mysteries. The church is such a confused mess. Meanwhile people live in darkness. Dont be so critical of yoga, it cures people of many illnesses and leads people to the still centre within without all of this nonsense and controversy.
we're just as angry about what happened in our own church. It isn't good for Christianity when any group of Christian heirachy fail so miserably in their responsibilities.
@ I sense a lack of Christian charity and a strong element of old fashioned Roman Catholic triumphalism in these discussion which I find repellent, particularly given the grievous sins of commission and omission by Catholic clerics.
@ a perception like that would be inaccurate, as these presenters have consistently been, and far more frequently are, just as critical of similar issues within the Catholic Church.
@@HoldFast-r7g The difference is that when discussing these issues with respect to the Church of England they are presented in a way to deny the legitimacy of the Church of England. It is apparent that most commenters also have this understanding of its purpose which is polemical and sectarian. Of course he is entitled to his views and to express them, but what does he hope to achieve in a largely secular Britain with a media that hates Christianity.
It's happening in the Catholic Church as well. It isn't good for Christianity when any group of Christian heirachy fail so miserably in their responsibilities.
The Church of England is only a small part of the worldwide Anglican Churches numerically, something not made clear at the beginning of the discussion. Near the end, Gavin, mentions the worldwide body of Anglicans that has distanced itself from the Church of England, but not mentioning, if I did not miss it, that the worldwide body vastly outnumbers the Church of England, the Episcopal Church in the U.S., and Anglican Church in Canada combined. Also missing from the discussion is the growth of GAFCON related bodies in the U.K.🙂
@@royquick-s5n GAFCON represents about 85% of the Anglican Communion. So the CofE is a flicker of what it once was and the Global South is flourishing. American Anglican here.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
I love Catholic Unscripted; the three of you are so logical and so very much Catholic. Thank you for your wise insights. ❤❤❤❤❤
As a Catholic I'm always stunned that Rome wants to copy a failing model.
I love that Gavin doesn’t mince words.
@@JBA7108 I love that Gavin doesn’t mince.
We all do. He is fearless.
I pray for England to be Catholic again.
I pray for Britain to be secular with true freedom of speech and religious tolerance which avoids all intolerant phobias.
@janwhite6038 Go and move to the USA as that is a country that has all those things you are looking for.
For starters, Charles has to convert or go!
Anglo Catholic
I find a rich historic and vibrant Catholicism within Anglicanism. No need to go elsewhere, though I look favorably at Orthodoxy. Not Roman Catholicism any more.
Gavin is on fire 🔥 this morning
I've never seen him so 'intemperate' but welcome the unbuttoned talk. Dealing with the C of E ( especially after Welby) needs a gladiator!
As a mother and grandmother, when I see and hear Cottrell my flesh crawls. It's instinctive. As a "ps" I found Welby's resignation speech pathetic and full of hubris when the situation called for deep, honest, sincere regret and apology.
Catholic Unscripted Gavin is one you won’t find anywhere else. He doesn’t hold back. Subscribe and get much more 😂
With what spirit?!
This is a strange question. Who can be fit to lead an unfit institution? The church of England was a failure from its (secular, Henry VIII) inception. I love Gavin, because he has courage and speaks boldly, even if it's not always 'polite'. God Bless him.
Overly harsh. It survived 500 years. One of its greatest mistakes was casting out John Wesley.
@@aclark903 I do get the impression that Anglican Protestantism was more imposed from the top down in England, than a grass roots development... compared to let's say Lutheran Germany. There were lots of people in England, probably the majority, who would have been perfectly happy to have remained Catholic, had it not been for a despot king Henry number 8 and his many wives. In fact, there was a lot of legal compulsion for the next few centuries to attend an Anglican church, face fines... or worse.
The Church of England never really captured the hearts and minds of the majority of English people, and it shows in many ways.
@@clavichord Well I would agree that just about everyone during the 1500s who took Christ seriously was either Catholic or Puritan. The Anglicans were the ones who went along to get along. Kind of like your Pope Francis’s cardinals.
@aclark903 I've stopped listening to Bergoglio (aka Francis) and his cardinals, a long time ago. They can say what they like, I'm not listening to them. And, these days, they have very little power to legally impose their will on me
@aclark903 Puritans did take their religion seriously, I just wouldn't have wished to have lived under their rule, as I don't see eye to eye with their theology
I once heard a radio play concerning the appointment of a new Archbishop of Canterbury. The main candidate was known for his piety, but his wife felt compelled to warn the selection committee that he actually believed in God.
Calling other Christians idiots, academically deficient ( a mere Polytechnic degree) and celebrants of bumming etc. ? I am currently re reading Ratzinger's What it Means to be a Christian, sermons filled with clarity, compassion, love and generosity of spirit ( see third sermon in particular). This and Dorothy Day's painfully honest diaries ( she was cited by Benedict in one of his final homilies) will sustain and encourage me, I wholeheartedly recommend both books. I suppose I just can't understand why one would desire to ridicule others on a public forum in such a personal way but clearly there are others happy to cast the first stone.
At first I wasn’t sure your topic was of interest as I am an American Cradle Catholic… but as I am listening to your information, I realized to better understand the church of England is to fervently pray for them… and my husband’s family was Anglican so even more to pray 🙏thank you for the enlightenment!
Understand that the Church of England represents only a minority of Anglican, a far more number of which worldwide distance themselves from what is happening within it. Is not the Vatican equivocating on the same abandonment of traditional biblical morals which has brought down the Church of England?
As a former Anglo-Catholic now partaking in RCIA, it is my position that the Church of England is functionally apostate and should be dissolved. I hope more Anglicans realise this and return to the Catholic Church as I did.
Edit: if an Anglican reads this and takes issue, I direct you to Apologia pro Vita Sua by John Newman.
I too left the Church of England and am currenly partaking in RCIA. I approached the Catholic Church with an open heart and mind and it is the best thing I could have ever done!
@@JosephCapelli I am glad you are continuing to practise your faith. Probably about ten percent of the parishioners of the Anglican church I attend is Roman Catholic.
@@willx9352 About the same as the number of Roman Catholics who attend my Parish Church. And Gavin, as a former member of General Synod at the same time as me, knows that what he said about the CofE and sexuality is incorrect. There is a large number of us who continue to believe that the only place for sexual activity is by one man and one woman who are married. Any other form of sexual activity is sinful.
Gavin needs to knock that chip off his shoulder, exude some humility, and acknowledge that if he himself was able and willing to serve as a priest in the C of E for over 30 years, then he should acknowledge and respect the fact that other faithful Christians are also happy to do so, rather than insulting them. Yes, our Church (the CofE) is in a mess - thanks mainly to a small number of incompetent bishops - much like your own Church. And there is really no need to ridicule or insult those clergy who may have what you regard as inferior educational awards or training. For God's sake there is enough bitterness in this world without adding to it. Please, get off your high horse, humble yourself and be thankful for Christians whoever and wherever they may be. Yes, I am a Protestant Anglican - because I believe in the Reformers arguments against Roman Catholicism, and your arguments in this video do nothing to alter that belief. I do respect and cherish the presence of a well established Roman Catholic church in our town, and I am very grateful for their presence, and always will be.
Amen! American Anglican here that prays for our CofE family - that you'll be strong despite some weak leadership. I hate the bickering that comes from so many sides and believe it gives the Enemy of our souls a foothold in our heats and in our churches.
We need a Black Lesbian Muslim Archbishop of Canterbury. I support the current thing.
I'm often surprised that Roman Catholics have any basis for criticizing the Church of England in any form. Roman Catholic Church is riddled with worst moral decadence of all Churches and things are made worse by the fumbling of the pappacy in recent years. Roman Catholic offers nothing now that is worthy of credit.
As a former Anglican, I weep for my old church, I owe a lot to them. I just can't understand why Francis and his supporters want to go down this road to ruin. The way things are going, there won't be a Church of England in a few decade's time.
There won't be any religion.
@VirishDirish There will always be some sort of religion, woke, atheism, Marxism, Gaia worship etc.. Nature abhors a vacuum.
Gavin you are an absolute card! 😂😂 @16:45 sometimes you have to be crude to be kind. God bless you all, from Ireland.
I'm Catholic and not British and I thought all the while that the appointing power in the CofE is the monarch. But if it's parliament that does that, then it's pretty assured that the next Archbishop of Canterbury will be the wrong person.
A crown nominations commission comes up with two names, one of which the prime minister chooses and forwards for the king's approval.
The Sovereign does not personally make the choice, but simply confirms the decision of the Prime Minister, except in the case of a “Royal Peculiar” , where the Sovereign does have a personal choice.
Why did you join that cult?
Bernard Woolley and Jim Hacker in “Yes, Prime Minister, The Bishop’s Gambit”, discussing the selection of a new Bishop. JH: Couldn't we let the Holy Ghost decide now? BW: No one's confident the Holy Ghost would know what makes a good Church of England bishop.
@@aceairstream Transparency might be applicable to all clergy regardless of church affiliation. How many would be cooperative in making their seminary transcripts transparent, i.e. publicly accessible? 🤔
The Church of England,'s reputation is down the toilet. The new Archbishop of Canterbury is not fit for purpose. The lady whistle blower on the whole affair should be in charge .
If you are referring to Helen-Ann Hartley, Bishop of Newcastle, latest reports are that she is woke as ever. Her criticism of Welby cloaks it.
The Roman Church has murdered millions.
20:30 OMG! We ran out of gas-fired power stations last week, and now we only have a week's worth of gas left.
No wonder the CoE is in such a bad state.
It's good to get some clarification, no matter who does it or the subject under discussion.
The bookies have the Bishop of Chelmsford in the lead. Ticks all the boxes - a woman, a refugee.
This is Dr Guli Francis-Dehqani, who we mentioned in this chat. Cottrell was the bishop of Chelmsford before he was translated to York so Francis-Dehqani probably knows quite a bit about the scandal Cottrell is embroiled in.
Racist misogynist.
If you've been abused by a cleric, go to the police (with a lawyer if possible).
Great advice!!! No doubt some feel intimidated to keep the offense in-house. No, my friends, they, the Church, regardless, will be thinking of liability. 🤨
Preferably not thirty years later
Galatians 5: "You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love." What many people don't understand is the difference between love and lust...astoundingly.
If anything, this is an opportunity for the C of E to correct it's course away from relativistic MBA's and to a strong, Catholic theologically oriented churchman.
Thank God most of Anglicanism is not aligned with the Church of England and Anglican truths of history and theology will not suffer demise. Roman Catholics should not gloat over what is happening in the Church of England and look to their house.
You are right. But, alas, I feel that they are not looking for such an opportunity!
It really boggles my mind how someone can get raised to the Episcopate with NO pastoral experience.
How much more would minds be boggled by disclosure of how many courses in scripture, theology, and patristics appear on seminary transcripts, if people were only to see them. 🤔
If Pope Francis was held to the same standards that Welby and Cottrell et al have been held to, he'd also have to resign in deep disgrace. Why do you people carry on about the problems in the Anglican Church and never open any of the vast number of all too similar cases in the RCC?
I was serving on Canvey with the individual concerned. It’s worth noting it was the law of the land that was telling us DT had to be treated as an innocent man because the charges were quashed. It was illegal to even refer to time served. This isn't reported by the press, but it does explain some parts of this chapter.
The big problem generally is the decline of theological education in the CofE.....apart from N.T.Wright, how many scholar-bishops have there been in the last 50 years??
Hmm…Rowan Williams is, arguably, the most theologically literate and original Bishop to have held the see of Canterbury since Anselm?
I’m no fan of Archbishop of York, but I’m not sure it’s any of your business particularly.
It just becomes another opportunity for an ad hominem attack on the CofE, an ecclesial body Mr Ashenden decided to leave. Tip: once the hand is to to the plough…
What was it Napoleon is supposed to have said? - "Never interrupt your adversary while he is making a mistake". Cotterell for archbish!
❤❤❤❤
What makes this concerning is that the Catholic Church is full of similar problems. Christianity being divided is bad enough, but on top of that, It isn't good for Christianity when any group of Christian heirachy fail so miserably in their responsibilities.
The ACNA people should move to the Ordinariate.
I suggest, with what has happened in Rome of late, the Ordinariate move to the ACNA. It seems the Ordinariate has been treated as a second class membership. Is the overall objective absorption? Look to what has happened to the Byzantine Rite, despite disclaimers.
Better still; the Orthodox Church ☦☦☦
C Northcote Parkinson's second law: Leaders are promoted to the level of their incompetence.
Katherine's camera working now.
Sounds like Cottrell is a walking example of the Peter Principle.
Not sure what you’re all going on about. If you don’t have anyone who fits the bill exactly, you choose the least worst. If you don’t like it that they are women, then say so. It is a legitimate opinion. Anyway, that’s the business of the Anglican Church. As Catholics we wish them well and we do what we can do as Catholics to improve the world. Does the Anglican Church really have that much impact on Christianity or even English society ? I doubt it.
Oh, if you knew only the treasury of truths it contains, which some, no doubt, would like to see buried.
@ The treasury of truths in the Anglican Church ? They are doing very well at keeping it a secret.
@@melarrow6202 From my personal experience, Anglican historians, e.g. A History of the Church in England by J. R. H. Moorman and Divine Commission by Frank E. Wilson, are pretty accurate. Church histories by Roman Catholic authors seem to be typified by omissions. I have surprised bloggers by quotations from Divine Commission. They didn't know. It may not be an issue of having been kept a secret as having been kept from knowing. I once taught in a large diocesan high school which did not even have a world history class. 🙂
@royquick-s5n the Anglican church has some truths which it stole from the Catholic Church and then buried under a heap of error.
Hold On , Wait a Minute , Somthin aint Right.
McElroy has been promoted to Archbishop of Washington... talk about being promoted above and beyond your moral capabilities
Has he? Since when?
@marklambert5232 The Pillar has reported it
@ yes I’ve seen WaPo carrying it now! Well spotted.
Nothing succeeds like failure. After San Diego diocese has received a bill for 600 million dollars for 450 abuse victims... The only qualification which McElroy has from Pope Francis' point of view is that he is opposed to Trump on immigration.
1) Mgr. Glenn’s TOUR OF THE SUMMA is a useful condensed Aquinas, and 2) Look up good old Peter Simple’s comic trendy CofE Bishop Spacely-Trellis, who is PRICELESS!
"Overpromoted" (Gavin). This term encapsulates Cotterell perfectly. Buyt it also describes the majority of the current 'DEI' bishops of the C of E. They are "career clerics" par excellence: mouthing the right words; but entirely lacking in any theological substance. Like Gavin, I have an awareness - through studying Theology - how little I know of the Creator of all that 'is'. The closest we can get to perceiving what God is like is the historic figure, and the teachings, of Jesus of Nazareth. The advantage of being Roman is that you have genuine scriptural and Christological scholars at the 'top'; leading your Church. Even better, Gavin; "People in the image of Welby" in the C of E episcopate. Thus, there is no-one wioth the competence, and genuine Christian belief, of (for example) Professor Martyn Percy) who is likely to be appointed as ABC. The C of E is entirely bereft of talent and leadership. In my adolescence, as a churchgoer, I knew the name of almost every diocesan bishop. Today - admittedly from outside of the C of E - I know hardly any of them (and those I do know is because of their notoriety: not scholarship). Welby wanted a "managerial Church" (as pointed out by Martyn Percy in his book; 'The Future Shapes of Anglicanism'); and so he has created a bureaucratic "managerial Church". Of course, Globalist-Communists always use bureaucracy to destroy the Institutions for which they atre responsible. And so we have the twin edifices of 'Safeguarding' and 'DEI' in order to accomplish precisely that. Job well done, WELBY and COTTERELL! Kathryn is right to raise the spectre of 'homosexuality' within the Churches: but please remember, only 'spiritually-sick' homosexuals who lack integrity remain within the Church: especially among the clergy.
Yes he should
I want no more woke crap and a Traditionalist please!!!!!
Bishop of Dover is from Jamaica not Barbados. David Tudor is from Barbados
One of my problems with the Catholic Church is that it expects so much in terms of moral behaviour and yet it offers so little support. I am sorry but the confessional is insufficient in terms of giving people the support they need to change. It is easy for the Church to say that homosexual sex is 'disordered' but its much harder to offer the support such people would need to change.
Pope Francis' relegation of the somewhat ambivalent conclusions of the Synod on Synodality to the Magisterium leaves in question what support for change is to be expected in the future and where inside or outside confession.
Little support? It has the sacraments!
We are fortunate in our parish, since the priest only has two other parishes to manage. I asked him for confession before Mass and he asked if it could wait. I decided to take that as a conditional absolution. My reply to you is that we are largely on our individual resources, which are inadequate but we know what to do about that - we talk to the organ grinder, as they say.
@@luciadegroseille-noire8073 Interesting. It raises the question who is responsible for the shortages of priests, a hierarchy resolutely holding onto celibacy or the laity generally who think the celibacy requirement for priests has always existed or who do not want to support married clergy. And, in these blogs, the additional question comes up for the clergy who do exist, what are their qualifications, not only in moral conduct, but in what they know of scripture, theology, patristics, pastoral counseling, parish management, etc. 🙂
The danger is that can stray into things like conversion therapy and spiritual abuse very quickly.
Mark concludes, very appropriately “It doesn’t matter what Pope Francis says.” I agree. I never pay any attention to what he says. So, for all practical purposes, we might as well not have a Pope. I sometimes think that, these days, the Eastern Orthodox are much better off. They do not have a Pope, so there is no one trying to persuade them that what they have believed for two thousand years now needs to be revised in light of modern thinking. They are required to simply believe what is clearly taught in the Sacred Scriptures and what has been defined by the first seven Ecumenical Councils of the Church (that is, those held while the Church was still wholly united, before the Great Schism). Once you give someone in the Church absolute power (Papal Infallibility) then you run the risk that a rogue Pope can derail the Church by teaching contrary to the deposit of the Faith - and no one has any formal authority to stop him.
Guess we should move to the disestablished Church of Ireland eh?
The next Archbishop of Canterbury should be either the regional superior of the FSSP or Cardinal Nicols
Cardinal Nichols will be 80 this year and is already 4 years past the normal retirement age .
God help the U.K. in that event.
While Gavin might have been a little too “direct” in his language, it is important that anyone in a position of pastoral responsibility should correctly state the true teaching of the Church. Homosexuality is wrong - no ifs, no butts”.
Heard a very interesting nugget from an exorcist the other day. Fallen angels will try their damndest to get people to indulge in homosexuality but, being pure spirits made in the essence of God, are repelled by it themselves and cannot watch. I shall not name the Demons concerned, but it was quite fascinating.
In The Screwtape Letters, CS Lewis depicts demons being utterly bored and indifferent to sex, their only interest being how to subvert it it to lead humans away from God. The demonic school's lessons on how to tempt humans using sex are described as unbearably tedious, but necessary.
By their fruits you shall know them. - Jesus Christ.
I recently heard two Bishops saying what an incredibly talented man Cottrell was. Im assuming they know him pretty well. As always, time will tell. Personally Ive never been a fan. Ive been a Church goer for 40 years and have never seen the slightest hint of abuse. Thats not to say I dont believe its happening. But perhaps the extent of it is somewhat overblown.
Are we in danger of the pot calling the kettle black? Here in Plymouth, we are still (after over two and a half years since Mark left for Cardiff) waiting for a bishop to be inaugurated. Do all Christian churches have difficulty in appointing bishops/archbishops? Has it become an impossible job/calling?
We Orthodox have NO problems appointing Holy Bishops and Archbishops ☦☦☦ - sorry to sound smug but i'm ex-Anglican.
Right about Spellman
Hard to grasp. This is it. Finis. COE is ending. Now
Monarchy next.
B 1948. Never imagined I would live to see it.
Sayonara
Right, and the years that it has taken for full disclosure!
Few folks care who the next C if E Archbishop of Canterbury will be, but do care that no child should be left alone with a vicar or priest.
Is it true that the panel of 18 who will choose the next archbishop….have their hands tied into choosing another man as there is a strong squad of conservative bods who don’t believe in the ordination of women . So they would block any attempt at appointing a lady . ?
"Is Cottrell fit to lead?" But is the C of E still fit to lead?! Indeed, better for the unfit to lead the unfit, then those who are fit will see clearly and want to leave. "For the time is near: therefore, let him who does wrong continue to do wrong, and he who is vile continue to be vile. And let him who does right continue to do right, and he who is holy continue to be holy." (Rev 22:11) This seems to me to be the order of the day. Indeed, has not the Catholic Church entered this same unsavoury arena?
I recall in the early days of Pfizer's introduction of Viagra, the Church of England invested heavily in Pfizer Pharmaceuticals. Not sure how this later evolved...
It was a flop! Not what one expects with Viagra, really.
Sad that a former “ bishop” is so uncharitable so publicly about a fellow sinner. Fr Clive
18:46 whoa
Well done Gavin in calling homosexuality out, even in crude terms, for what it actually is.
Obviously, Rose of Dover should be the next Cantuaress.
She is pretty good to be fair.
@@dalecaldwell A lovely Dover soul.
@Mark3ABE albeit rarely spied there, I think she has been to Dover once or twice
Gavin need not bother about reading Thomas Aquinas. The only thing he needs to know about his writings is that they are ‘like straw’. And who are we to argue with that?!
but in bible clearly says it is that passage in Romans 1 to 25 onwards clearly says what is going on today is sinful and bad
What happens in the C of E is not our business but as citizens we should complain that they have any power at all in parliament. And don't get me started on that pantomime artist King Charles !!!
Cottrell ~ The Peter Principle in action along with the Dunning-Kruger Effect?
Let's offer them McElroy and see if they take that heretical turkey as they're desperate.
Mind you, so are we.
ArchAngel Saint 'MICHAEL'
We shall all be in court together very soon, you put your cards on table & I mine, or put your money where your mouth is
Yuk
The old gods are back 😢
What do you expect when a pope and 140 papally appointed cardinals run a church, i.e. if you are speaking of the Roman Catholic Church. The Church of England is a runner-up, with interference of a secular government. God, you know, may perfectly work from the bottom, grassroots, up just as well as from the top down. 🤔
No! This individual is part of the cover up. He should resign or sacked. The majority of Bishops don’t believe in the truth of Scripture and therefore don’t preach it. If you are a good person they believe all is well but without believing Biblical authority and true repentance, without consistent habitual wrongdoing or sin, Salvation is not assured.
I wish we still had the Eleusinian mysteries. The church is such a confused mess. Meanwhile people live in darkness. Dont be so critical of yoga, it cures people of many illnesses and leads people to the still centre within without all of this nonsense and controversy.
Another example of the pot calling the kettle black.
Absolutely agree - it's nearly enough to put me off the church!
we're just as angry about what happened in our own church. It isn't good for Christianity when any group of Christian heirachy fail so miserably in their responsibilities.
@ I sense a lack of Christian charity and a strong element of old fashioned Roman Catholic triumphalism in these discussion which I find repellent, particularly given the grievous sins of commission and omission by Catholic clerics.
@ a perception like that would be inaccurate, as these presenters have consistently been, and far more frequently are, just as critical of similar issues within the Catholic Church.
@@HoldFast-r7g The difference is that when discussing these issues with respect to the Church of England they are presented in a way to deny the legitimacy of the Church of England. It is apparent that most commenters also have this understanding of its purpose which is polemical and sectarian. Of course he is entitled to his views and to express them, but what does he hope to achieve in a largely secular Britain with a media that hates Christianity.
And Welby was made in the image of Call-Me-Dave.
C of E is dead.
None of our business. We’re Catholics.
Have I heard that before? Cain and Abel? 🤔
Why did you join that cult?
It's happening in the Catholic Church as well. It isn't good for Christianity when any group of Christian heirachy fail so miserably in their responsibilities.
who cares ??
You, you're here after all.
@@VideaVice25 saw that
@@VideaVice25 it's a circus after all
@@VideaVice25 it's a circus after all
@@VideaVice25 it's a circus after all
You need to update your terminology instead of abuser say monster. Truly evil monsters.
Abuser is correct, monster is supposition. One you treat the other you destroy if you can. Be careful.
The Anglican Church is broken beyond prepare. The office of Canturbury is a joke. Stop the clownshow.
The Church of England is only a small part of the worldwide Anglican Churches numerically, something not made clear at the beginning of the discussion. Near the end, Gavin, mentions the worldwide body of Anglicans that has distanced itself from the Church of England, but not mentioning, if I did not miss it, that the worldwide body vastly outnumbers the Church of England, the Episcopal Church in the U.S., and Anglican Church in Canada combined. Also missing from the discussion is the growth of GAFCON related bodies in the U.K.🙂
@@royquick-s5n
GAFCON represents about 85% of the Anglican Communion. So the CofE is a flicker of what it once was and the Global South is flourishing.
American Anglican here.