You can't have it both ways, we've been complaining about FSR not being an ML algorithm for so long, now that we're finally getting it we're gonna complain about compatibility with old cards? That's just how it goes, the underlying hardware is necessary. We already have a fallback, it's FSR.
I just posted also that I wouldn't care and I just upgraded to a 6800xt and not upgrading for awhile. I don't want AMD to hold back innovation if it requires 7000 series cards. I did that with the GTX Super 1650 and I wasn't mad
I mean, if I buy a GPU powerful enough to not need upscaling, does it matter? But anyway, even if some of the stuff Nvidia has is better than AMD, some of the stuff AMD has is better than Nvidia. Since I give no shits about RT yet, and I actually don't think FSR 2.1 or 2.2 looks as bad at 1440p and up that the internet keeps telling me it does, I did upgrade a second time to a new AMD card. I just don't want to lose the software features and driver package they offer. Stuff like having overclocking and undervolting built into Adrenaline and things like Radeon Chill, which is great in games. Went from a 1080 Ti to a 6800 for three years, and now to a 7900 XTX, and feeling no regrets.
Still needs upscaling if you care about high framerate. But, then again you're likely not running RT features, without that perhaps. But I do like RT and high fps. So, noting is really powerful enough.
Honestly it really isn’t bad , unless you play a game to really put textures under a microscope and pay attention to every little detail, most of the time I just want 60fps on a single play game and I’m happy and it looks good , comp games I don’t care about textures , I have a 6800xt and I’m very content with it , I used to have a problem with upscaling but now I’m ok with it not because AMD is doing better just the fact it’s going to be part of every game so might as well take advantage of it . I feel you on that
@@SlyNine yeah , for now I don’t care about RT , if I did I would’ve gone to nvidia just for that but honestly I think both companies do have really great products and I use and like both , I don’t have a brand loyalty like a smoker who only likes Marlboro reds , I’m more of a if it fits my budget and needs then I’ll get it
@@AzSureno when I had a RTX 2070 Super, I didn't care about RT. But, now that I have upgraded to a 4090, I do care. Why? Because now I can see how good it looks with high framerate. It's one of those features that you finally get to use as intended and you see how great it is. You didn't care when you couldn't use it to its potential, but now that you can, it's awesome. Funny how that works.
@@ThisGuyDrives But you still can't use it to it's full potential, even spending $2000. "Full potential" has to be high refresh rate at Native. The need of Upscaling and frame generation degrades image quality, that is just facts. The 4090 requires all the help to achieve a high refresh rate.
If FSR's functionality remains as is for older gen cards/non AMD cards, but then 7000 series and any future cards have AI upscaling enabled, I really don't see the issue. Yes, FSR is kinda doodoo, but if you're using an AMD or even nvidia gpu from 5 years ago and you have the option to be able to use it and get a bit more life out of your tech before absolutely NEEDING to upgrade, I think that's a pretty sweet deal. Even if the quality isn't AS good as if it were DLSS, but it's not like nvidia is really giving you that option either.
2:18 I don't understand why you react like that, AMD never said ai upscalers are bad, they just said there can be good upscaling with no ai involved. They never said that ai is a worse option and they didn't even say it is not better, they just said no ai can be good enough.
To throw my hat in the ring here - I'm fine with them moving to some form of AI upscaling, I think the important thing is that AMD doesn't abandon the FSR 2 and 3 pipeline. So you can have a GPU agnostic AI upscaler that's developed by AMD, AND you've got the old upscaler as a fallback. Seems very doable. It's pretty reasonable AMD telling users to upgrade, as long as FSR is still available you don't *need* to upgrade and they've offered killer value on 6000 series, gotta get people to upgrade from their 6700 XT's and 6800 non-XT's somehow. Still, gonna be interesting to see if they can leverage the mindshare they've gained into users upgrading. It's all about the pricing, the only thing that's gotten AMD this far other than ethical business practices (which is nice, but Nvidia is cutthroat) is value and pricing. If they're gonna have a 1080ti moment like Nvidia, they need to offer 1080ti value, power and longevity.
all AI based upscallers end up relying on INT8, and the whole problem with RDNA2 and other gpu's is that their INT8 potential is really REALLY bad, RDNA3 when it has their instruction set enabled, it has 2.7 times the INT8 performance of similar game performing RDNA2 cards, the RX 7600 on INT8 calculations is about the same as an RX 6900XT, just so you get an idea of the compatibility deal. FSRAI is almost guaranteed since it's being developed by AMD and sony, alongside their custom chip, which is RDNA3, but it will likely have the same approach as XeSS, worse mode for non int8 capable cards, and fully enabled for compatible GPU's (aka 7000+), and that the CTO said so as well. Still, at this point AMD needs to start focusing on their own gpu's and optimizing for them, fsr2 was and still is useful for old gpus, but those will be replaced eventually, so the upscaller for all argument was to be ditched eventually, and they knew it, they simply didn't have the incentive yet to do so, nor GPU capables of running AI upscalling without performance loss (only N21 is able to run XeSS without performance loss, and running an FSR4 that uses AI but makes you lose performance would put them at a bad situation vs dlss which it at least stays in a similar fps range despite the visual downgrade with FSR2). tldr; it was going to happen, it was obvious, and there is still a lot of time to do it, but don't expect RDNA2 to perform as well or have the entire feature set with it's limited AI capabilities.
Just a reminder that Intel said they would open source XeSS on launch, and mentioned it multiple times after launch, yet XeSS is still closed source...
6:07 thanks for calling me out there, I've been using a RX 5700 as my only GPU since April 2020. Even if AMD really went and said "you'll need to upgrade to use these features", I am planning in getting a RX 7800 XT. This will feel like changing from one car to another
I just finally made the jump from a Nitro+ 5700XT that I've had since early 2020 to a Nitro+ 7900GRE and I am very glad that I did. Its a great upgrade and IMO now is the perfect time to make a move for those of us coming from a 5700 level of performance. I intended to hold out for the 8800XT as that will likely be a very good buy when it releases, but the surprise 7900GRE being released worldwide was my sign to just do it. It is a nice bonus to also be able to enable real RT now though I will probably still be leaving it off in many games as it is just not worth the performance hit most of the time, especially for someone like me who much prefers to push for more pixels and fidelity than higher frames. I am happy with 60 or 75fps (the Hz of each of my monitors) and I would rather bump up the resolution (or use less upscaling to run at 4K) than have slightly (IMO) better lighting/shadows/reflections with RT. I find at this level of performance simply turning off some or all RT options can be the difference of using no upscaling at all to run otherwise maxed out 4K native in some games or less aggressive upscaling in others.
I believe the DirectSR is for devs. Implementing it allows for DLSS, FSR, XeSS implementation without needing to add each one separately. I could be wrong but that's my current understanding of it.
The funny thing for me is always, sure, if you slow it down to 25% zoom in 300% and give me a pointer where im supposed to look i can actually see artefacts that differ between upscalers, but if you dont do that i just dont see the difference. Yes youtube compression and all that BUT there was literally ONE instance where i saw artefacting and that was in Jedi Survivor one of the overhead climbing grill thingy in a certain angle. The only reason i saw it was because i was watching and not playing. Same goes for Ray tracing, i found one scene in Cyberpunk where i was able to notice a difference. Im not saying the differences dont matter, im not saying they dont exist, im just saying i stopped caring about it because its rather obvious that for me it does not impact the enjoyability of gaming so i might just not care about it.
tbh its easy to tell the differences between FSR and DLSS without a slow down and zoom in. FSR is just pure shit tbh while DLSS is acceptable on most games.
@@lilpain1997 With normal footage, side by side, i also don't see the difference. With still frames sure. or moving when zoomed 200% (300% is a bit extreme) guess it depends from person to person With ray-tracing off and on side by side however is see it immediately. (but only side by side) And when they showed extreme up-scaling side by side 720p -> 4K (3x3) i also noticed it immediately (i would notice that even when it was not side by side)
IMO, you are 100% correct. If I'm playing something, I'm too immersed in the game to notice these little things that don't actually change how much fun the game is for me
FSR with AI upscalig will be a huge game changer depending on which two routes AMD goes for. Going the XeSS route would mean it'll be a lot easier to make the graphics look good despite not putting much work on the AI while DLSS with FSR already has proof of concept that it works really well but it still has the same problems FSR 3 has right now. I personally think going the XeSS route would be a lot better since AMD already implemented computing cores similar to CUDA into their GPUs so setting that up would be a good bit easier and AMD already have DP4a path to test on to see what can work to upscale better with less AI and computing stress
I really don't get this mentality that people always need to upgrade even though they don't need the performance. And I'm not talking about hardware enthusiasts, but people are genuinely worried if a company is gonna release a feature on a newer gen that their RX 6800 won't support. Even thought they're out there playing games like CS2 casually, like no you don't need to upgrade for a slightly better FSR.
I rather get both. Keep going on optimizing games and rerease GPU more powerful than ever, and improve upscaling to add more stuff or doing it in a more power-efficient way
u do understand rasterization has its limits and graphics cant really advance much without the need of upscaling since we are limited by our current hardware
Everyone keeps mentioning AI processing on the GPU as _something_ to make use of these yet-to-be-killer hardware features, and every time I am reminded as to why hardware accelerated PhysX is never used for the physics engine in any game engine. Talking to the GPU is slow. Hardware PhysX is fine for particles because it's mostly just the GPU doing its own thing for itself. Having the CPU sitting and waiting for the GPU to do something before it can continue doing anything isn't exactly great for framerate. Modern PCIe speeds will certainly improve this issue but I doubt it'll ever be faster than just doing it in the CPU, especially when the time comes that Intel or AMD decides to put AI cores in their CPU.
Considering that AFMF is exclusive to 6000 and 7000 series cards and HYPR-RX is 7000 exclusive, I can see them having exclusive FSR 3 Frame Gen features and upscaling options.
New cards, new architecture will be needed to do onboard AI computing. Higher costs. Remember you are asking for this, so don't complain when you get it.
This video when the 20 series came out "It's nvidia abandoning their old cards? Its going to force them to upgrade to the 20 series for dlss?" Useless video
I'll say one simple thing, the same thing I've said for years now; If you want to defeat NVidia, you need to defeat CUDA. There is a VERY good reason why NVidia freaked out when AMD kinda just dropped ZLuda in our laps, if you can run CUDA on anything other than a NVidia GPU then a huge part of the appeal of NVidia cards evaporates. It gives better gaming and rendering performance, better AI performance, better encoding, better a LOT.
Maybe the Answer is much easier... AMD thought that they can push the Quality much more, but after Intel releases an AI-Version with better quality to the came to the point, where they realized they couldn't keep up without AI. So they changed their mind and follow the others to AI-Upscaling.
Upscaling is definitely much more important to me than RT. I’ll use RT in like 5 years when frame rates are pretty good across the board. But for now, I’d prefer better FSR for lower temps.
The problem is that everone is in catch-up mode since it takes so long for new silicon. Nvidia invested early and hard so they still got a few more years
Hmmmmm this is gonna be fun, Im building a new pc late this year so I have time to see how this plays out. I am thinking of RX 7900 XTX vs 4080 Super... I will keep a VERY open eye on this tech they will make.
Amd gpus alr have more vram than nvidia for the price AMD is alr cheaper than nvidia so u mentioning those 2 makes me think u have not been researching enough
@@Wyn3e point still stands, AMD only have raster, price and vram going for them, poor RT, inferior upscaling and does little for productivity and creative workloads. If I'm only gaming, sure I can compromise on RT and FSR but doing my work such as video editing and blender NVIDIA has me at gunpoint.
Am I the only one that does not notice any changes when FSR is enabled or not? I have mine enabled all the time and I am happy with the FPS boost to hit my monitor's refresh rate. The graphics is pretty much the same.
I've been telling people for months this was coming and also predicted that once AMD got onboard with Ai upscaling then Microsoft would unify all 3 into the DX12 API How did I figure this out? EXPERIENCE .... something a lot of you younger people look down on because only older people have experience because you cannot teach experience, it can only be acquired over time The key to knowing FSR 4 would be using AI is if you took the time to read AMD's Whitepapers on RDNA3 you would see that all 7000 series GPUs have "AI Cores" which are essentially the same thing as Tensor Cores or Xe Cores (An AI core is essentially a built in math coprocessor that excels at Tensor Math) FSR 4 will only work on 7000 series and up and everyone else will have to fall back to FSR 2. How did I know Microsoft was going to unify the API for AI Upscaling? Well they already started with their collaboration with Nvidia on Streamline, but also based on past experience with the unification of Ray Tracing in DX12 and before that the unification of HBAO into DX11 and DX12 (HBAO was once a Nvidia exclusive) Old age and experience always beats youth and skill .......
As someone who only have intel haswell and looking to buy ryzen 7600 + rx 7600 for 24 hour low watt. This video assuring me that I is on right track 😁. Now 8600g have AI core. I still reconsidering if I can live the limitation.
So AMD is the company that’s against AI where as Nividia is the one pushing it, kinda like how the steam engine and diesel engine competition. Weird how that works because both work great but there’s more of a draw back for one.
If the power requirements of the same, then no I wouldn't care. I went with nVidia for two reasons. 1. I would have needed to replace my Power suppy if I got the 7900 xt (killing any savings from the nVidia comparison) 2. While I don't care about Ray tracing, I *do* care about upscaling since I game in 4k (1440p is useless to me) I was tempted to go AMD GPU since I have an AMD CPU, but they're too power hungry.
For us Linux users, AMD is straight up better than NVidia. Gaming is great on Linux these days, almost every game runs (unless the publisher explicitly disables it), and with better performance than Windows !
AMD has completely messed up the past year. More so than in the past. They promised FSR 3.0 one year ago and I still havent seen it reliably roll out in titles. Anti Lag+? That was another big fiasco. I invested on a 7900 XTX for a 10% performance bump vs the 4080 but in reality theres so many bugs and issues with this generation (from multimonitor support to underwhelming game optimizations and even lower workbench performance). Its usual for games to stutter and not run properly for months before AMD rolls out a patch or the developer catches up. Unfortunately NVidia remains at a position where its nonsensical to choose AMD at medium to higher budgets, where stability becomes way way more important than an extra 10% over raster.
but stability is good both in nvidia and amd gpus so what are you even talking about? Nvidia only rules in high end gpus while amd offers way better price to performance ratio in medium and low end gpus, many problems with 7000 got already solved and works like charm.
In my opinion FSR 3 if implemented right will be the fallback and I'll be happy with it on my 5000 series until the 8000 series launches at least because by then either those cards will have a good deal or 7000 series will be priced fairly finally. I would love to see a machine learning algorithm on 5000 and 6000 series, but I don't think it is possible without using undue GPU power and leaving you with abysmal frame rates. I think it is fair that AMD wants in on AI upscaling. The fact they are late to the game also means they get to learn from Nvidia's failures and success.
Fine, big red play button website, I'll paraphrase my yeeted comment, even though I didn't use a single bad word: You shall consume the creepy-crawlies, and you'll be allowed to experience joyous emotions.
Microsoft said that DriectSR is NOT their upscaler, but an API to use 3rd party upscales and make it easy for developers to integrate them all, so the dev uses DirectSR and the game automatically has all XeSS, DLSS, FSR etc
Exactly! This API is a game changer. It allows AMD to make changes to their upscaling technology (to include AI) w/o having to solicit game dev implementation. AMD can push for maximum innovation w/o having to maintain compat with previous revisions. Obvious this is true with Nvidia but they never had a problem with dev participation or leaving prev. gen behind for the next great technology.
Makes sense, a certain amount of abstract layering to get developers buy in is definitely a lesson learned from history, just look at the PS3 Cell CPU for why it's important.
@@IIaBllI like AMD a lot and I don't think it will always necessarily be behind Nvidia, it depends how they play it out, but what annoys me about AMD is how they're always playing catchup with Intel and Nvidia. They always release their CPUs and GPUs after their competitors, sometimes one year late, and they just copy their technology rather than invent their own. It would be cool if AMD for once released components first and were the ones to innovate on new tech.
@@armathyx AMD will always be behind Nvidia, that is the price they pay for being open source. If anyone with any hardware can use AMD features, they sell less hardware which = they have less money to invest into making better hardware. It all comes down to money, and nvidia has more of it. Mark my words, DLSS 5 or 4.1 or 4.5 whatever it is will probably pop up out of nowhere with the next RTX 5k series cards or maybe a brand new lineup of cards that are called something other than RTX and then FSR will once again be obsolete. This is the problem with AMD, jus when they are finally starting to catch up its already the end of a GPU gen and the next gen comes and they fall behind again. The early bird gets the worm, Nvidia is the early bird. The only good thing I can say about AMD, is for people on a budget their deals are very good and they are open source which is pro consumer and commendable. For people who want the best of the best though, they more or less won't touch AMD at all.
Best bang for Buck was always the way. If the software package is best as well, even better. I paid $300 for a 6800XT so I don't have to rely on any upscaling, and RT's always off anyways.
All AMD RDNA 2 GPUs have hardware to accelerate AI. They support mixed precision FP16, INT4, INT8, and INT16 matrix operations, the kinds of operations used for AI training and inference
Yeah I used a 6700xt to do some stable diffusion and training on Linux. And it is slow compared to a 7900GPU But it is not slow compared to a older Nvidia that also support dlss. The real issue on old AMD is that every compute core that get the task of doing AI work is busy and can not work on pixel shader anymore. So it is hard to guess if it is going to be really helpful.
They should just have FSR3 be the last FSR and then have a DLFSR as a new brand to be a new tech to build it as new brand so people dont think FSR is worse because of 1,2,3
@@imo098765 no they should obviously still update FSR to let older GPUs without ai cores to still live. The rx5700xt and 1080ti are still capable GPUs.
@@Jakiyyyyy fsr 3 is already non ai and it's also not upscaling. I swear the both companies missed the opportunity for a great naming scheme. I swear Nvidia and AMD are in cahoots and the AI vs non ai upscaling was the plan from the start. They both make more money when they give each other room to do the best instead of having too fast a release cadence or a price war. That sucks for them both. Working together to maintain the largest overall market value is what is best for both of them. I have no evidence but there is also no evidence in Jesus or God but half the world would kill each other off to prove that they are right. Point is of course there would never be proof but I'd bet anything they are in communication and plan accordingly.
I think they're going to have normal FSR for 5000 and 6000 cards and AI upscaling on 7000+. It just makes the most sense to me. But that would make me even happier with this 7800 XT.
My guess is the AI upscaling requirement will be RX 6800 or above, since GFX1030 is the RDNA2-based LLVM target with HIP SDK requirement for ROCm. It would make no sense for AMD consumer GPU's officially supported by their machine learning platform to then not support AI upscaling. Of course RDNA3 GPU's would perform this more efficiently, but RDNA2 should not be locked out. But RDNA1 would definitely not support it.
@@MiGujack3I would wait for Battlemage and see how that does. Intel has proven they will improve drivers. NVIDIA just dropped GTX and literally all their newer RTX cards are overpriced. If AMD follows suit with the shady business practices then IMO its worth supporting cards that bring back some competition in price-performance.
Do people really expect to take old ass cards and utilise AI upscaling technologies? You have to start somewhere, like nvidia did, and 7000 series is as good as any point. Having a fallback would be nice, but AMD don't have to backhaul every card they made to make this work the same as on a new card.
That's so true I am sorry that this might come across stuck up or whatever but if you're using a damn 580,6600 6800 XT you can't expect much going forward you're on old hardware even people with a 6950XT is now on old RDNA2 hardware. So yeah if using AI is in their future starting with the 7000 series makes the most sense and if people want better looking FSR they'll need to ditch their old gpu and get a newer one it's simple. I no longer have my 7900 XTX it was amazing but on my 65 inch monitor you can 100% tell the difference between FSR and DLSS (I know people say you can't maybe not with a smaller screen but with a big one you can easily)
Let's be real for a second. RX 6000 isn't that old and still performs pretty damn well. But where they're lacking is AI cores. The exact specific hardware that's needed for AI upscaling. People need to understand the limits of the hardware. And, in a lot of cases, people are in denial about that. I get it. You spent a lot of money on your card a few years ago and it's still relevant. But the hardware needed for AI simply isn't there.
AMD's in-driver Fluid motion frames is a great feature for a guy like me with a RX 6600. I tried it in Alan Wake II and it works really good with one minor fps drop for a couple of seconds ,and I hope this feature gets better over time.
NVidia buyers are sometimes quite stupid! If you ask an NVidia buyer for $500 whether you'd want 25% more performance, or upscaling, I bet most NVidia buyers would say, "oh that's easy. Upscaling" when they don't realize that 25% more raw performance beats upscaling in image quality, every day of the week !!
I do wish FSR was better. But that $200 difference is no joke. For features like RT in there current state I don’t care for whatsoever. RT just looks worse and I don’t see how people can justify it. Smeary and blurry mess, not to mention the performance hit.
the "blurry" part is probably the result of some compromise that exchanges quality for performance .. the hardware definitely is still lacking raw power to deliver stuff with true full scene raytracing .. once the hardware arrives that can do it there will be a land-slide shift in the industry .. we are still in the build up phase .. Ray-tracing is nice but while the tech is here the performance delivered needs to improve.
I have an Rx 7900 Gre and i really dont have to use upscalers to play on 1440p ultra settings and game devs are getting super good at Rastarization and RT will have to be better to be enabled as default in every game so amd >> nvidia and me getting 16 gb vram on rx 7900 gre instead of 12gb vram on rtx 4070 super that is 70$ more and fsr is going to get updates and be as good as dlss but what about the vram ? It wont update so still amd > nvidia (thanks for reading)
It is not palatable for anyone who recently bought an expensive GPU to be motivated to replace it with something with tensor cores or equivalent. One thing I learned about tensor cores is it uses less power than GPU cores because they are FP8 unlike a GPU which are FP32. That means physically they occupy a very small percentage on a GPU chip. The solution is to sell a separate card that is for AI.
Here is the thing though, AMD has been working a lot with system manufactures and dominating the lower end GPU/APU market, it worked out better for them to not have to invest in machine learning and just use FSR to handle upscaling on systems that weren't running the games at high settings or resolutions to begin with. The goal was to get games with lots of shaders running at decent framerates and that's what FSR does. It's a lot less noticeable on a handheld or a laptop. It was a business strategy. DLSS was going to be better out of the gate and Nvidia is always going to appease to whales in hardware. It made sense for them to save all that money and continue developing in the market they dominate. Nvidia doesn't make CPU's, nor do they help Xbox, PlayStation, Asus, Lenovo, Valve, ect with hardware in their consoles. While Nvidia dominates the enthusiast market, cooperate systems and their ARM based Tegra processor is in the Switch (Which is weak by today's standards - but we'll see what Gen 2 will do)
@@bnolsen upscaling is an optimization tool, relying on upscaling is optimizing sure rn it makes the game look worse, in the future games will look as good if not better, look at early TAA, it looked terrible, but modern TAA looks just as if not better then legacy anti aliasing methods, TAA started looking terrible and in some cases still does, but as devs learned how to used it and more importantly design assets with TAA in mind it started looking better and better all forms of optimization start looking bad, often much worse then upscaling currently does, but as devs learn the tool and the tool gets better games will look better as a result
its a new tool for optimization, were going to be excited for it, many people try and say relying on upscaling is lazy, but upscaling is an optimization tool, before upscaling devs relied on dynamic resolution, which is an objectively inferior option to upscaling many people think games are less optimized now, but we are half way through a new console generation, now is the time were seeing games only on modern consoles, those games will be harder to run, consoles are the baseline, devs target consoles because thats where most players will be (PC technically has more players but not all of them have powerful PCs, someone playing Counterstrike 1.6 on a dell optiplex from 2008 is technically a PC gamer and counts towards the statistics) so a game is optimized well if it runs well on consoles A lot of PC players need to get it through their thick skulls that modern consoles are powerful, about on par with the 3060, so if your GPU isn't vastly above that, which statistically it isn't, you should not be expecting more than console performance, but anything under I'd say a 3090 shouldn't expect vastly better then console performance, better for sure, but not vastly, if a game is well optimized (which most actually are on PC when you compare to their console counterparts) if you want double the FPS, you'd probably need over double the power (consoles run operating systems with many more built in optimizations allowing the hardware to be pushed more efficiently then PC hardware) so a modern game that hits 60FPS on console, you'd need at least a 4080 to get 120fps at console visuals, 4090 to push 120fps at max settings (all dependent on resolution obviously but the PS5 tends to render games at around 1440p)
People were always excited to play at a lower resolution if it meant they can try a new game before buying new hardware. Now thanks to the inference accelerators (or as the marketing types like to call it, "AI" "chips") the reduced resolution can look way less crappy, sometimes even better than native. Also, all frames are fake. They're generated by a computer after all. At least the path-traced ones are mathematically true to some extent, but most of games utilize anything from smoke and mirrors up to the famous "evil floating point bit level hacking" to give you a believable experience at an acceptable framerate. The infinite-FPS, infinite resolution, non-upscaled path traced stereoscopic experience is currently available only in theatres (the ones with stages, curtains and actors, not cinemas).
@flamingscar5263 TAA still is worse. Anything that downgrades or washes out the sharpness of the game or the view distance is a big nono. It doesn't matter if DLSS is better if I can't see the fence in the distance. This is not optimisation and also the resolution slider is not optimisation. It's the opposite. What does the game Dev doing? Just FSR and DLSS on the game and it's now optimised? Hahaha, no man. Even with DLSS look at cyberpunk as an example. 4080, 4k , High settings with RT and DLSS + FG. What do you think you will get with quality mode. 30 fps 😂 and that is 30 for a district that is not extremely hard on the HW.
@@Vshes every card has driver problems and AMD or Nvidia are at the same level. Even Intel has solved 99% of the original problems on their drivers... I have an Nvidia card and I already had problems with drivers when downloading brand new ones that were only a few days old, it happens with everything, not even talking of GPUs you can have problems with your network card drivers or basically anything that has drivers and is running windows
The Reason is simple they got hardware inside their GPUs to accelerate their Upscaling DLSS instead of being like AMD and not requiring special Hardware so it runs on most Gaming Cards.
This question was already answered back in the mid-00's. ATi had flat out BETTER GPU releases than NVIDIA back then, especially vs the FX 5000 series. That one REALLY sucked. But people still bought NVIDIA anyway even though it was worse. Same deal with the Athlon 64 when that released in 2003/2004 versus the Pentium 4's of the time. A lot of people are just vulnerable to marketing and sheer habit even if they won't admit it.
It doesn't matter whether or not AMD's upscaler works well, or not, or is backwards compatible or not... I will not buy another Nvidia GPU... AMD has graphics cards that, simply work, and they work well enough, for a reasonable price. Nvidia scams their customers, with overpriced experimental tech... I actually bought the rtx 2080 ti, and i had performance issues with that thing since day 1, and while the driver issues got ironed out eventually, the hardware and software issues still cucked its performance... the %-lows were so sht, dude, it's not even funny, every single game was choppy... All that crap, just for raytracing capabilities, which didn't even look good? Absolute scam... The only reason i bought that rtx 2080 ti is because Nvidia discontinued SLI-support, so my GTX 690's in SLI stopped working, so i could only run games with one 690 at a time... So they artificially made my old setup obsolete, just so they could force me to buy a new GPU (strike 1), said new GPU being overpriced AND experimental, they basically tricked me into PURCHASING a product that was still in beta (strike 2)... and then less than a year later, the next generation GPU's were already out, performed better than my 2080, and were cheaper (strike 3). Yeah nah, Nvidia pissed away ALL my good will with those 3 strikes. I swapped to AMD, and i have had nothing but smooth sailing with this GPU since day 1, best gaming bliss i've ever had since my dual 690's. :) My RX6800XT will do me just fine, i don't NEED raytracing, and i don't NEED FSR or DLSS... I'm good right where i am, with good, old-fashioned regular graphics card, ol' reliable. :)
AMD will NEVER have GPUs that perform and produce Nvidia quality graphics. It's so much more then just FPS and upscaling. There is a reason AMD cards are cheaper. It's like comparing a Cadillac to a Rolls Royce, sure both are "nice" cars, they get the job done, but the user experience, quality and technology difference between them is night and day. This is why Nvidia is one of the largest companies in the world atm. I don't agree with there business practices at all, and hate their GPU lineups, and how they are structured to suck every penny out of the consumer by confusing them causing for pre-mature upgrades, also contributing to unnecessary e-waste, yet AMD is also guilty of this. But I still bought a 4070 Ti because there's no other option then Nvidia. This is why our governments need to ensure we don't have these massive crooks forming industry monopoly's enabling the "Mob-like" tactics. No company can become worth over 2 Trillian Dollars without profiting off the backs and taking advantage, cutting corners, or just downright unethical. Apple, Amazon, they all have scandals of "slave-labor" (Foxconn employees jumping off the roof of their factories, because their living conditions WITHIN THE FACOTRY are so bad), yet Apple is still the biggest company in the world, worth more than Canada''s GDP. They would never have been able to do this if they paid it's factory workers a living wage so they don't have to live in a factory. If these companies could treat it's workers in the Western world as such to make them more money they wouldn't even think about it. Wealth and Evil go hand in hand. P.S I'm in Canada so I paid a gross amount for my 4070 Ti ($1400 with taxes) the 4090 would run me over $3000 up here. Making all of this even more frustrating for us Canucks.
AMD AI upscaling on gaming devices = possibly Steam Deck but I think ROG Ally with AMD Z1 / Z1Extreme APUs that have the neural (AI) chips on them …. like Ryzen 8000 ApU’s. I think they’ll test the waters with Rx7000 series as well but nothing below the 7000 series will get this AI boost to upscaling imagery imo 👍😱🤔
It wont catch up, it will be their first AI upscaling tech while Nvidia will likely push out DLSS 4.0 by then which = far better. DLSS is already far ahead compared to FSR even in FSRs best implementation Avatar it still looks poor enough to not want to use it. Either way enjoy your card, I personally wouldnt have moved over seeing as the 7900xtx is a great card ( although power draw is horrendous ) but you do you.
If they fix the upscaling I might stop regretting my 7900xtx. I would be somewhat happy with the equivalent of XESS running on an Intel card. As it is I tend to use XESS, with the performance hit, so having it without the performance hit would nice.
I disagree with the focus on upscaling, basically giving game devs more opportunities to be lazy in their optimization. A well optimized game performs well even on older hardware, meanwhile a horribly optimized game, NEEDS some help, like DLSS or FSR or even XESS... It's just sad imo on how it's going. Before we relied on upscalers, we still had amazing looking games(with or without ray tracing) for very playable performance as long as the devs actually put some time into optimization.
I do think AMD should focus on AI upscaling and RT tech with the next generation.. but.. i am happy with AMD 7000 gpu's which are comparable to the rtx 30 in ray tracing and can in some titles beat the 40.. which is an interesting spot to be in. Also i have a 6700xt I also wonder if the new AI capable CPU's will allow people to keep their 6000 cards when they upgrade to those? Maybe.. probably not
DirectSR a direct x feature will surly be a late season Windows 11 or a Windows 12 only implementation that has been Microsoft's carrot and stick for getting people to upgrade to newer operating systems in the past. This does not bode well for the many people on windows 10 such as my self that don't feel the urge to upgrade just for the sake of upgrading. Their trying to herd the people into a subscription model of windows for those monthly payments. That's fine by then I'll probably be dead anyway or running a Linux build out frustration with Microsoft's horseshit.
AMD wasn't really lying when they said that you don't NEED to use AI for impressive upscaling because, just as you said, FSR is VERY impressive and usable even without AI. AMD never said that AI-upscaling isn't better, AMD just said that you don't NEED it to get impressive upscaling. Remember that FSR was made to also work on GPUs that had no hope of ever being able to use AI so they chose compatibility over quality. I think that there's a lot of value in that. I say this as someone who doesn't even need FSR because my GPU is an RX 7900 XTX. I say this as someone who remembers what it's like to not be able to afford a GPU like mine. Just ask anyone using a GTX 1080 Ti or RX 5700 XT without enough money to upgrade to the "latest and greatest". For them, FSR was an absolute GODSEND,. You really have to squint and search for differences between the current three upscalers and FSR3.x will still work on all older cards so it's not like those gamers are being left with nothing. A lot of them use and love FSR because it's all they have and it makes games playable for them, warts and all. They're just happy that it works. You're talking about AMD leaving people behind when it's not AMD that left gamers behind, it was nVidia. AMD's FSR was (and still is) the best gift that any tech company could give to gamers with older cards and they shouldn't be knocked for it because AMD took that hit (with all of you reviewers saying that FSR is crap) to help out real gamers. That's not a reason to admonish AMD, it's a reason to praise AMD. You're looking at this from a Western "first-world" and self-indulgent monirity perspective. I say minority because, the reality for most people on Earth who don't live in rich countries like Canada, the USA, the UK, France, Germany, Sweden, etc. is that the "latest and greatest" is always far out of reach. There are a lot of gamers still using GTX 1xxx and RX 5xx / 5xxx cards who would be completely unable to play any AAA titles without FSR. You're completely missing the point of FSR because it has a socialistic slant that you Americans might never understand. It's the idea that EVERYONE matters, not just those who can afford .
Ray tracing is legit getting good now with games like AW2, Avatar, robocop, etc. You will need at least upscaling to offset the performance cost. But, nvidia lacks the vram to properly utilize RT and Frame gen. AMD has more vram but can't use those features as well, maybe frame gen with FSR 3 FG. So pick your poison.
Like Going to the GYM and choosing between Flavoured STEROIDS or Go Natura (native) , I just want to play man, that's it. 60FPS offline 144hz online shooters all I need, dont have time to Stop and Stare at the sun reflections, I want to see pixelated boobs or a good Game with a cool story just like a netflix serie or a cool movie that catches you in for a while until it's over and you wish there is a 2nd of it!
Exactly. The other day I was playing Far Cry 5 and decided to cap frames to 30 fps and set resolution to 720p for shits and giggles and...it was fine...I can still play it. I like the game, and like it in anyway. Bloodborne was the best thing I ever every played and that game couldn't even keep consistent 30fps lol
I couldn't tell? what about the backpack in motion?. my eyesights screwed btw. And I just took my VR headset off lol. But I cannot tell the difference in your side by sides. maybe I'm getting old. But FSR 2 and 3 looks great to me
All 7000 series GPU's have Ai accelerators, so wouldn't surprise me, been waiting for them to do this. The spec sheet of the cards actually list AI accelerators. anyone 6000 series and lower is out of luck, upgrade already ..lol
I recently just switched to 4K and DLSS really helped to make the transition. My son uses the 6950 XT Red Devil daily and sometimes turning ON FSR the frame rate like barely increases, sometimes not at all
I think AMD on the GPU side is just not a great company ( CPU are significantly better in how they handle things ). They are one generation if not even two generations behind Nvidia on features even if the performance outside of those features is similar. So why would I buy one? Sure I might save 100-200 dollars, depending on model of the GPU ( and when looking at the 7900 XTX vs 4080 atm not even that ) but it's just not as a good of a GPU situation. I have not seen a reason to buy an AMD in a long time, frankly I expect Intel to produce a better GPU at this point!
I don't know Man I don't even use any form of downscaling, if any games require me to downscale my resolution on my expensive AF GPU I simply wont buy the game. People are stuck on downscaling tech but totally leave out the fact we shouldn't need FSR or DLSS to run these terribly optimised console ports. The focus should be on why we need FSR and DLSS to run these console ports, I'm more supportive of FSR simply because its open source and free to use for my friends that still run older Radeon cards but if I pay $1500 for a GPU I expect it to be able to run my games without any of these excuse driven downscalers. The fact DLSS is required to run RT in console ports should telly you Path Tracing and RT simply aren't ready for mass adoption.
@@resko8758 I'm in the Robocop Dis server and was pretty shocked to see none of them have an issue with downscaling being required to run a game where the graphics featured are pretty low quality so much so the game should run on a 2060.. Gamers have just accepted this, same people gave console gamers crap due to downscaling now we need on PC console ports to make them run..
I’m very hopeful that intel can bring some real competition in the cpu and gpu market. Going to wait for some real competition before I decide to buy a graphics card.
Why are people so desperate for AMD to be just like Nvidia when we already have Nvidia? Let AMD continue to be the cheaper generic "Fruit Rings" and Nvidia will remain the more expensive premium "Froot Loops".
@@arenzricodexd4409 then have fun waiting years to get them then... Then by the time they do get them they are already outclassed. Not defending either company here as both are just trying to mark prices up massively but if you want premium features you have to pay for them...
This is a very very good example video that speaker doesn't know what he is talking but he knows very limited and surface understanding of what he is talking. However, he knows games.
We were already doing that with S.L.I, Crossfire & supposed to be mGPU too. I find it ironic that people keep claiming that no one had the money for S.L.I yet here we are people have plenty of money to blow a single RTX 4090 at $2,000.
I'll say it here RIGHT NOW again. AMD GPUs might not look good with frame generation, but the features they have for native resolution ARE WILD. Their image sharpening is like DLSS but at Native. It brings the details FURTHER on your monitor. Nvidia FAILED AT THIS and they had to REMOVE IT FROM THEIR DRIVERS out of complains. AMD is far from perfect, their encoder and decoder for video sucks, FSR is far from good at the moment (just to name a few scenarios). If they manage to improve, they can become the best gamer and streamer equipment on this PC gaming world. I just went back to AMD from a RTX 2080 Ti to a RX 7800 XT and I hope for the best. Their driver is much better than Nvidias, they just need to get their sh... together. I'm enjoying it too much!
i play native and don't care about ray tracing either. Didn'tbuy a 165hz screen to play at 45fps even if the add an Ai upscaler fsr 2 and 3 still be available.
One of the reasons I got an AMD GPU last year was that I wanted as much performance _without_ upscaling as possible for my money. If I get better upscaling for cases where it's really needed then that's appreciated I guess, but I'd rather get back to rendering natively with good performance. I'm just tired of having to check which games have support for which upscaler, on which generation of hardware from a certain company, often with tiny graphical improvements over older games.
Lol the tech bloggers have been getting their ad revenue for weeks hyping up the 5000 series, making folks who spent their money on 4090 regret their decision and Nvidia hasn't even ended up announcing anything so I'd just stop watching any of the speculation vids
Hopefully Intel can continue to make Arc discrete gpus and maybe opesource XeSS more. Competition is good and opensource allows smaller devs to get in the game, no pun intended. Amd has a path forward by what Intel did with XeSS, maybe they can expand upon it.
Everything still looks a biy blurry to me compared to native. I would love all that horsepower into edge aa and texture ultra upscaling (like skyrim style super texture pack upgrades)
Here is a detailed summary of the key points from the video text: - DLSS is Nvidia's flagship upscaling technology that improves performance and image quality. It is difficult to tell games are running at a lower resolution when using DLSS. - DLSS uses machine learning/AI to reconstruct details and stabilize performance at lower resolutions. Nvidia limits it to their GPUs which use tensor cores. - AMD created FSR 2 and FSR 3 to compete with Nvidia's DLSS 2.0. However, DLSS often provides a better experience with no compromises and free performance. FSR has some drawbacks. - Based on analysis of 26 games, DLSS is generally considered the superior upscaling solution currently. - AMD claims machine learning is not necessary for good upscaling, but their solutions like FSR are still inferior to DLSS in many cases. - Intel's first graphics cards used AI-enhanced upscaling called XeSS, which looked better than FSR in early showings. - AMD's CTO said in 2024 they will enable upscaling using AI on their "gaming devices." This indicates AMD may develop their own AI upscaling solution. - If AMD can deliver AI upscaling comparable to DLSS, it could help close the performance gap between AMD and Nvidia GPUs. Remaining issues would be AMD's weaker ray tracing performance. - Key challenges for AMD's potential AI upscaling include what GPUs it will work on, and how long it will take to be widely adopted in games given FSR's inconsistent implementation so far. - Nvidia faced issues initially by limiting DLSS to newer RTX cards, but most popular Nvidia cards now support it. AMD may face a upgrade cycle challenge if limited to 7000 series cards. - AMD could potentially develop a fallback solution like Intel's to allow broader GPU compatibility, but this would reduce performance gains. - Overall it remains vague what AMD's plans are, but developing an AI upscaling solution could help address a major weakness of their gaming solutions if implemented effectively.
Papermaster specifically said "gaming devices", he DIDN'T say "graphics cards". It's pretty much established that the next Nintendo device will again use a Nvidia processor, meaning it will pretty much without a doubt support DLSS from day 1. So I'd say Mark is more referring to AMD's presence (dominance?) in the consoles (ala PS5/Series) and gaming handhelds (ala SteamDeck etc.), I'm sure AMD is hearing loud and clear from game devs they need a better upscaler for those devices. Now, if they can apply that tech ALSO to graphics cards on PC, great, but I don't believe that's his focus.
You can't have it both ways, we've been complaining about FSR not being an ML algorithm for so long, now that we're finally getting it we're gonna complain about compatibility with old cards? That's just how it goes, the underlying hardware is necessary. We already have a fallback, it's FSR.
I just posted also that I wouldn't care and I just upgraded to a 6800xt and not upgrading for awhile. I don't want AMD to hold back innovation if it requires 7000 series cards. I did that with the GTX Super 1650 and I wasn't mad
yeah but the people saying what you're saying are the same people who yell and scream about dlss frame gen not being on 30 series.
I agree, it’s gotta happen at some point. Though doing like what XESS did is a much smoother way to make the transition
@vextakes but isn't the fallback just fsr 2/3? Why wouldn't they have the capability to be backwards compatible?
And wanting better RT performance 🙄...
I mean, if I buy a GPU powerful enough to not need upscaling, does it matter? But anyway, even if some of the stuff Nvidia has is better than AMD, some of the stuff AMD has is better than Nvidia. Since I give no shits about RT yet, and I actually don't think FSR 2.1 or 2.2 looks as bad at 1440p and up that the internet keeps telling me it does, I did upgrade a second time to a new AMD card. I just don't want to lose the software features and driver package they offer. Stuff like having overclocking and undervolting built into Adrenaline and things like Radeon Chill, which is great in games. Went from a 1080 Ti to a 6800 for three years, and now to a 7900 XTX, and feeling no regrets.
Still needs upscaling if you care about high framerate.
But, then again you're likely not running RT features, without that perhaps. But I do like RT and high fps. So, noting is really powerful enough.
Honestly it really isn’t bad , unless you play a game to really put textures under a microscope and pay attention to every little detail, most of the time I just want 60fps on a single play game and I’m happy and it looks good , comp games I don’t care about textures , I have a 6800xt and I’m very content with it , I used to have a problem with upscaling but now I’m ok with it not because AMD is doing better just the fact it’s going to be part of every game so might as well take advantage of it . I feel you on that
@@SlyNine yeah , for now I don’t care about RT , if I did I would’ve gone to nvidia just for that but honestly I think both companies do have really great products and I use and like both , I don’t have a brand loyalty like a smoker who only likes Marlboro reds , I’m more of a if it fits my budget and needs then I’ll get it
@@AzSureno when I had a RTX 2070 Super, I didn't care about RT. But, now that I have upgraded to a 4090, I do care. Why? Because now I can see how good it looks with high framerate. It's one of those features that you finally get to use as intended and you see how great it is. You didn't care when you couldn't use it to its potential, but now that you can, it's awesome. Funny how that works.
@@ThisGuyDrives But you still can't use it to it's full potential, even spending $2000. "Full potential" has to be high refresh rate at Native. The need of Upscaling and frame generation degrades image quality, that is just facts. The 4090 requires all the help to achieve a high refresh rate.
If FSR's functionality remains as is for older gen cards/non AMD cards, but then 7000 series and any future cards have AI upscaling enabled, I really don't see the issue.
Yes, FSR is kinda doodoo, but if you're using an AMD or even nvidia gpu from 5 years ago and you have the option to be able to use it and get a bit more life out of your tech before absolutely NEEDING to upgrade, I think that's a pretty sweet deal. Even if the quality isn't AS good as if it were DLSS, but it's not like nvidia is really giving you that option either.
Yeah, your comment would make sense if Intel didn't release XeSS, which in my opinion is less noticeable while gaming than FSR
2:18 I don't understand why you react like that, AMD never said ai upscalers are bad, they just said there can be good upscaling with no ai involved. They never said that ai is a worse option and they didn't even say it is not better, they just said no ai can be good enough.
To throw my hat in the ring here - I'm fine with them moving to some form of AI upscaling, I think the important thing is that AMD doesn't abandon the FSR 2 and 3 pipeline. So you can have a GPU agnostic AI upscaler that's developed by AMD, AND you've got the old upscaler as a fallback. Seems very doable. It's pretty reasonable AMD telling users to upgrade, as long as FSR is still available you don't *need* to upgrade and they've offered killer value on 6000 series, gotta get people to upgrade from their 6700 XT's and 6800 non-XT's somehow.
Still, gonna be interesting to see if they can leverage the mindshare they've gained into users upgrading. It's all about the pricing, the only thing that's gotten AMD this far other than ethical business practices (which is nice, but Nvidia is cutthroat) is value and pricing. If they're gonna have a 1080ti moment like Nvidia, they need to offer 1080ti value, power and longevity.
all AI based upscallers end up relying on INT8, and the whole problem with RDNA2 and other gpu's is that their INT8 potential is really REALLY bad, RDNA3 when it has their instruction set enabled, it has 2.7 times the INT8 performance of similar game performing RDNA2 cards, the RX 7600 on INT8 calculations is about the same as an RX 6900XT, just so you get an idea of the compatibility deal.
FSRAI is almost guaranteed since it's being developed by AMD and sony, alongside their custom chip, which is RDNA3, but it will likely have the same approach as XeSS, worse mode for non int8 capable cards, and fully enabled for compatible GPU's (aka 7000+), and that the CTO said so as well.
Still, at this point AMD needs to start focusing on their own gpu's and optimizing for them, fsr2 was and still is useful for old gpus, but those will be replaced eventually, so the upscaller for all argument was to be ditched eventually, and they knew it, they simply didn't have the incentive yet to do so, nor GPU capables of running AI upscalling without performance loss (only N21 is able to run XeSS without performance loss, and running an FSR4 that uses AI but makes you lose performance would put them at a bad situation vs dlss which it at least stays in a similar fps range despite the visual downgrade with FSR2).
tldr; it was going to happen, it was obvious, and there is still a lot of time to do it, but don't expect RDNA2 to perform as well or have the entire feature set with it's limited AI capabilities.
Just a reminder that Intel said they would open source XeSS on launch, and mentioned it multiple times after launch, yet XeSS is still closed source...
and we should never let them live it down
6:07 thanks for calling me out there, I've been using a RX 5700 as my only GPU since April 2020. Even if AMD really went and said "you'll need to upgrade to use these features", I am planning in getting a RX 7800 XT. This will feel like changing from one car to another
I just finally made the jump from a Nitro+ 5700XT that I've had since early 2020 to a Nitro+ 7900GRE and I am very glad that I did. Its a great upgrade and IMO now is the perfect time to make a move for those of us coming from a 5700 level of performance. I intended to hold out for the 8800XT as that will likely be a very good buy when it releases, but the surprise 7900GRE being released worldwide was my sign to just do it.
It is a nice bonus to also be able to enable real RT now though I will probably still be leaving it off in many games as it is just not worth the performance hit most of the time, especially for someone like me who much prefers to push for more pixels and fidelity than higher frames. I am happy with 60 or 75fps (the Hz of each of my monitors) and I would rather bump up the resolution (or use less upscaling to run at 4K) than have slightly (IMO) better lighting/shadows/reflections with RT. I find at this level of performance simply turning off some or all RT options can be the difference of using no upscaling at all to run otherwise maxed out 4K native in some games or less aggressive upscaling in others.
I believe the DirectSR is for devs. Implementing it allows for DLSS, FSR, XeSS implementation without needing to add each one separately. I could be wrong but that's my current understanding of it.
DirectSR isn't a new upscaler. It's a way to simplify implementation of various upscaler within games by developers
The funny thing for me is always, sure, if you slow it down to 25% zoom in 300% and give me a pointer where im supposed to look i can actually see artefacts that differ between upscalers, but if you dont do that i just dont see the difference. Yes youtube compression and all that BUT there was literally ONE instance where i saw artefacting and that was in Jedi Survivor one of the overhead climbing grill thingy in a certain angle. The only reason i saw it was because i was watching and not playing. Same goes for Ray tracing, i found one scene in Cyberpunk where i was able to notice a difference. Im not saying the differences dont matter, im not saying they dont exist, im just saying i stopped caring about it because its rather obvious that for me it does not impact the enjoyability of gaming so i might just not care about it.
tbh its easy to tell the differences between FSR and DLSS without a slow down and zoom in. FSR is just pure shit tbh while DLSS is acceptable on most games.
@@lilpain1997 With normal footage, side by side, i also don't see the difference. With still frames sure. or moving when zoomed 200% (300% is a bit extreme) guess it depends from person to person
With ray-tracing off and on side by side however is see it immediately. (but only side by side)
And when they showed extreme up-scaling side by side 720p -> 4K (3x3) i also noticed it immediately (i would notice that even when it was not side by side)
IMO, you are 100% correct. If I'm playing something, I'm too immersed in the game to notice these little things that don't actually change how much fun the game is for me
FSR with AI upscalig will be a huge game changer depending on which two routes AMD goes for. Going the XeSS route would mean it'll be a lot easier to make the graphics look good despite not putting much work on the AI while DLSS with FSR already has proof of concept that it works really well but it still has the same problems FSR 3 has right now. I personally think going the XeSS route would be a lot better since AMD already implemented computing cores similar to CUDA into their GPUs so setting that up would be a good bit easier and AMD already have DP4a path to test on to see what can work to upscale better with less AI and computing stress
I really don't get this mentality that people always need to upgrade even though they don't need the performance. And I'm not talking about hardware enthusiasts, but people are genuinely worried if a company is gonna release a feature on a newer gen that their RX 6800 won't support. Even thought they're out there playing games like CS2 casually, like no you don't need to upgrade for a slightly better FSR.
I rather get raw raster performance than having to think about upscaling
@@NoSkillsBroI would rather it not tbh
I rather get both. Keep going on optimizing games and rerease GPU more powerful than ever, and improve upscaling to add more stuff or doing it in a more power-efficient way
Gpu's already have the hardware to accelerate AI tasks included, why not utilize it?
@@Goejii I think the upscaling is useful for older gpus to stay relavent for longer, but it shouldn't be the bread and butter for the latest gpus
u do understand rasterization has its limits and graphics cant really advance much without the need of upscaling since we are limited by our current hardware
Everyone keeps mentioning AI processing on the GPU as _something_ to make use of these yet-to-be-killer hardware features, and every time I am reminded as to why hardware accelerated PhysX is never used for the physics engine in any game engine. Talking to the GPU is slow. Hardware PhysX is fine for particles because it's mostly just the GPU doing its own thing for itself. Having the CPU sitting and waiting for the GPU to do something before it can continue doing anything isn't exactly great for framerate. Modern PCIe speeds will certainly improve this issue but I doubt it'll ever be faster than just doing it in the CPU, especially when the time comes that Intel or AMD decides to put AI cores in their CPU.
Considering that AFMF is exclusive to 6000 and 7000 series cards and HYPR-RX is 7000 exclusive, I can see them having exclusive FSR 3 Frame Gen features and upscaling options.
New cards, new architecture will be needed to do onboard AI computing. Higher costs. Remember you are asking for this, so don't complain when you get it.
This video when the 20 series came out "It's nvidia abandoning their old cards? Its going to force them to upgrade to the 20 series for dlss?" Useless video
I'll say one simple thing, the same thing I've said for years now;
If you want to defeat NVidia, you need to defeat CUDA. There is a VERY good reason why NVidia freaked out when AMD kinda just dropped ZLuda in our laps, if you can run CUDA on anything other than a NVidia GPU then a huge part of the appeal of NVidia cards evaporates. It gives better gaming and rendering performance, better AI performance, better encoding, better a LOT.
I don’t see any issue in AMD saying “from 7 series onward the feature XYZ will be enabled”, people would still be happy… completely normal approach
Maybe the Answer is much easier...
AMD thought that they can push the Quality much more, but after Intel releases an AI-Version with better quality to the came to the point, where they realized they couldn't keep up without AI.
So they changed their mind and follow the others to AI-Upscaling.
Upscaling is definitely much more important to me than RT. I’ll use RT in like 5 years when frame rates are pretty good across the board. But for now, I’d prefer better FSR for lower temps.
The problem is that everone is in catch-up mode since it takes so long for new silicon. Nvidia invested early and hard so they still got a few more years
Hmmmmm this is gonna be fun, Im building a new pc late this year so I have time to see how this plays out. I am thinking of RX 7900 XTX vs 4080 Super... I will keep a VERY open eye on this tech they will make.
Make AMD GPU be on par with NVIDA in upscaling, ray tracing, productivity but with more VRAM and cheaper then I'll consider
Amd gpus alr have more vram than nvidia for the price AMD is alr cheaper than nvidia so u mentioning those 2 makes me think u have not been researching enough
@@Wyn3e point still stands, AMD only have raster, price and vram going for them, poor RT, inferior upscaling and does little for productivity and creative workloads. If I'm only gaming, sure I can compromise on RT and FSR but doing my work such as video editing and blender NVIDIA has me at gunpoint.
@@JinxLouzy the 7800 xt beats the 4070 in Davinci resolve and prem pro saying its not there for productivity isn't completely true
If AMD had as good technology as CUDA and lower price - AMD would be the way to go
Am I the only one that does not notice any changes when FSR is enabled or not? I have mine enabled all the time and I am happy with the FPS boost to hit my monitor's refresh rate. The graphics is pretty much the same.
depends on fsr mode like performance, balanced and quality
I've been telling people for months this was coming and also predicted that once AMD got onboard with Ai upscaling then Microsoft would unify all 3 into the DX12 API
How did I figure this out? EXPERIENCE .... something a lot of you younger people look down on because only older people have experience because you cannot teach experience, it can only be acquired over time
The key to knowing FSR 4 would be using AI is if you took the time to read AMD's Whitepapers on RDNA3 you would see that all 7000 series GPUs have "AI Cores" which are essentially the same thing as Tensor Cores or Xe Cores (An AI core is essentially a built in math coprocessor that excels at Tensor Math) FSR 4 will only work on 7000 series and up and everyone else will have to fall back to FSR 2. How did I know Microsoft was going to unify the API for AI Upscaling? Well they already started with their collaboration with Nvidia on Streamline, but also based on past experience with the unification of Ray Tracing in DX12 and before that the unification of HBAO into DX11 and DX12 (HBAO was once a Nvidia exclusive)
Old age and experience always beats youth and skill .......
As someone who only have intel haswell and looking to buy ryzen 7600 + rx 7600 for 24 hour low watt. This video assuring me that I is on right track 😁.
Now 8600g have AI core. I still reconsidering if I can live the limitation.
These Pokemon OSTs kill me every time i hear them. The nostalgia is too strong.
So AMD is the company that’s against AI where as Nividia is the one pushing it, kinda like how the steam engine and diesel engine competition. Weird how that works because both work great but there’s more of a draw back for one.
Since when is AMD against AI? They make their own AI products and are generally considered the main competitor to Nvidia in the AI hardware race.
If the power requirements of the same, then no I wouldn't care. I went with nVidia for two reasons.
1. I would have needed to replace my Power suppy if I got the 7900 xt (killing any savings from the nVidia comparison)
2. While I don't care about Ray tracing, I *do* care about upscaling since I game in 4k (1440p is useless to me)
I was tempted to go AMD GPU since I have an AMD CPU, but they're too power hungry.
For us Linux users, AMD is straight up better than NVidia. Gaming is great on Linux these days, almost every game runs (unless the publisher explicitly disables it), and with better performance than Windows !
AMD has completely messed up the past year. More so than in the past. They promised FSR 3.0 one year ago and I still havent seen it reliably roll out in titles. Anti Lag+? That was another big fiasco. I invested on a 7900 XTX for a 10% performance bump vs the 4080 but in reality theres so many bugs and issues with this generation (from multimonitor support to underwhelming game optimizations and even lower workbench performance). Its usual for games to stutter and not run properly for months before AMD rolls out a patch or the developer catches up. Unfortunately NVidia remains at a position where its nonsensical to choose AMD at medium to higher budgets, where stability becomes way way more important than an extra 10% over raster.
but stability is good both in nvidia and amd gpus so what are you even talking about? Nvidia only rules in high end gpus while amd offers way better price to performance ratio in medium and low end gpus, many problems with 7000 got already solved and works like charm.
Honestly as a 7900XT owner, I’m super excited for this.
In my opinion FSR 3 if implemented right will be the fallback and I'll be happy with it on my 5000 series until the 8000 series launches at least because by then either those cards will have a good deal or 7000 series will be priced fairly finally. I would love to see a machine learning algorithm on 5000 and 6000 series, but I don't think it is possible without using undue GPU power and leaving you with abysmal frame rates. I think it is fair that AMD wants in on AI upscaling. The fact they are late to the game also means they get to learn from Nvidia's failures and success.
There are some really good implementations of FSR. I say this as an owner of nvidia and amd cards
Whatever nets me the most bang for buck. It's rough out here eating tree bark.
You gotta leave the bark on so the moss can grow. It's much more nutritious
You vill eat ze bugz, und you vill like zem!
Fine, big red play button website, I'll paraphrase my yeeted comment, even though I didn't use a single bad word:
You shall consume the creepy-crawlies, and you'll be allowed to experience joyous emotions.
You guys are eating?
@@Plague_Doc22 Gotta get used to what nature is offering at some point, we can't afford to have generated frames shoved down our throats forever.
Microsoft said that DriectSR is NOT their upscaler, but an API to use 3rd party upscales and make it easy for developers to integrate them all, so the dev uses DirectSR and the game automatically has all XeSS, DLSS, FSR etc
Oh, thanks for the info.
Exactly! This API is a game changer. It allows AMD to make changes to their upscaling technology (to include AI) w/o having to solicit game dev implementation. AMD can push for maximum innovation w/o having to maintain compat with previous revisions.
Obvious this is true with Nvidia but they never had a problem with dev participation or leaving prev. gen behind for the next great technology.
Makes sense, a certain amount of abstract layering to get developers buy in is definitely a lesson learned from history, just look at the PS3 Cell CPU for why it's important.
@@garyb7193nope Nvidia had the same idea with the Streamline API and it was rejected by devs
@@shanent5793 but this is going to be built into DirectX
If AI fsr is coming to rx7000 series it will be epic
And 6000 series
It's coming on ps5 pro wich it's rdna 3 gpu costum
@lord_nem3sis 6000 series doesn't have ai accelerators, only 7000 and newer will have ai upscaling.
@@RX7800XTBenchmarks great. Just bought a 7800XT
@@georgevel nice. I got the gigabyte oc model. Manual Overclocked. Best value GPU alongside 7900gre imo.
Vex making the same "AMD has just now caught up to Nvidia" video every week for a full year now
Tru
yea but they didnt
They never will, AMD is and will always be inferior to Nvidia. This “catchup” game is old and played out.
@@IIaBllI like AMD a lot and I don't think it will always necessarily be behind Nvidia, it depends how they play it out, but what annoys me about AMD is how they're always playing catchup with Intel and Nvidia. They always release their CPUs and GPUs after their competitors, sometimes one year late, and they just copy their technology rather than invent their own. It would be cool if AMD for once released components first and were the ones to innovate on new tech.
@@armathyx AMD will always be behind Nvidia, that is the price they pay for being open source. If anyone with any hardware can use AMD features, they sell less hardware which = they have less money to invest into making better hardware. It all comes down to money, and nvidia has more of it. Mark my words, DLSS 5 or 4.1 or 4.5 whatever it is will probably pop up out of nowhere with the next RTX 5k series cards or maybe a brand new lineup of cards that are called something other than RTX and then FSR will once again be obsolete. This is the problem with AMD, jus when they are finally starting to catch up its already the end of a GPU gen and the next gen comes and they fall behind again. The early bird gets the worm, Nvidia is the early bird.
The only good thing I can say about AMD, is for people on a budget their deals are very good and they are open source which is pro consumer and commendable. For people who want the best of the best though, they more or less won't touch AMD at all.
Best bang for Buck was always the way. If the software package is best as well, even better. I paid $300 for a 6800XT so I don't have to rely on any upscaling, and RT's always off anyways.
How'd you get a 6800XT cheaper than a 7600 non-xt?
@@Gamcoaster i got new 6950 XT for $420
@@christophermullins7163 the cheapest I see is above $900. That's essentially more than double of what you got.
You think it's bad to use upscaling? Even though it's improved a lot?
@@Gamcoaster There was a time here in Germany when 6950XTs where 500€, like a clearance sale basically
All AMD RDNA 2 GPUs have hardware to accelerate AI. They support mixed precision FP16, INT4, INT8, and INT16 matrix operations, the kinds of operations used for AI training and inference
True. Supports ai and ai acceleration is 2 different things I guess.
Yeah I used a 6700xt to do some stable diffusion and training on Linux. And it is slow compared to a 7900GPU But it is not slow compared to a older Nvidia that also support dlss. The real issue on old AMD is that every compute core that get the task of doing AI work is busy and can not work on pixel shader anymore. So it is hard to guess if it is going to be really helpful.
You mean RDNA 3, since the previous generation has no dedicated ML hardware.
@@Ivan-pr7ku No, according to the RDNA 2 Instruction Set Reference: "Dot product ALU operations added accelerate inferencing and deep-learning"
@@shanent5793Well, Pascal also supports DP4a, but it's wasn't advertised with particular AI capabilities.
As long as fsr keeps a no machine learning version then that'd be perfect
They should just have FSR3 be the last FSR and then have a DLFSR as a new brand to be a new tech to build it as new brand so people dont think FSR is worse because of 1,2,3
@@imo098765 no they should obviously still update FSR to let older GPUs without ai cores to still live. The rx5700xt and 1080ti are still capable GPUs.
Improve FSR 3 but at the same time don't get rid of FSR 2. So you have the option to choo$3 between FSR 2 (Legacy) or FSR 3 (with the A.I.)
@@Jakiyyyyy fsr 3 is already non ai and it's also not upscaling. I swear the both companies missed the opportunity for a great naming scheme.
I swear Nvidia and AMD are in cahoots and the AI vs non ai upscaling was the plan from the start. They both make more money when they give each other room to do the best instead of having too fast a release cadence or a price war. That sucks for them both. Working together to maintain the largest overall market value is what is best for both of them. I have no evidence but there is also no evidence in Jesus or God but half the world would kill each other off to prove that they are right. Point is of course there would never be proof but I'd bet anything they are in communication and plan accordingly.
@@christophermullins7163 the majority share holder for both amd and Nvidia is the same company so here's your evidence
I think they're going to have normal FSR for 5000 and 6000 cards and AI upscaling on 7000+. It just makes the most sense to me. But that would make me even happier with this 7800 XT.
Same, Im glad I went with a 7800xt instead of a 6950xt
My guess is the AI upscaling requirement will be RX 6800 or above, since GFX1030 is the RDNA2-based LLVM target with HIP SDK requirement for ROCm. It would make no sense for AMD consumer GPU's officially supported by their machine learning platform to then not support AI upscaling. Of course RDNA3 GPU's would perform this more efficiently, but RDNA2 should not be locked out. But RDNA1 would definitely not support it.
If they do that I'm going back to ngreedia. 6000 series is plenty advanced.
@@MiGujack3I would wait for Battlemage and see how that does. Intel has proven they will improve drivers. NVIDIA just dropped GTX and literally all their newer RTX cards are overpriced. If AMD follows suit with the shady business practices then IMO its worth supporting cards that bring back some competition in price-performance.
that makes no sense whatsoever. they'd have to add new AI-specific hardware, wasting GPU real estate
Do people really expect to take old ass cards and utilise AI upscaling technologies? You have to start somewhere, like nvidia did, and 7000 series is as good as any point. Having a fallback would be nice, but AMD don't have to backhaul every card they made to make this work the same as on a new card.
That's so true I am sorry that this might come across stuck up or whatever but if you're using a damn 580,6600 6800 XT you can't expect much going forward you're on old hardware even people with a 6950XT is now on old RDNA2 hardware.
So yeah if using AI is in their future starting with the 7000 series makes the most sense and if people want better looking FSR they'll need to ditch their old gpu and get a newer one it's simple.
I no longer have my 7900 XTX it was amazing but on my 65 inch monitor you can 100% tell the difference between FSR and DLSS (I know people say you can't maybe not with a smaller screen but with a big one you can easily)
i agree, it's not fair hold back on new technologies and progress because of old hardware, they can't support old hardware forever.
Let's be real for a second. RX 6000 isn't that old and still performs pretty damn well. But where they're lacking is AI cores. The exact specific hardware that's needed for AI upscaling. People need to understand the limits of the hardware. And, in a lot of cases, people are in denial about that. I get it. You spent a lot of money on your card a few years ago and it's still relevant. But the hardware needed for AI simply isn't there.
They do, because the 1080 ti was so damn powerful.
@@user-yv2cz8oj1k Power and capability are not the same. They have the power while lacking the capability.
AMD's in-driver Fluid motion frames is a great feature for a guy like me with a RX 6600. I tried it in Alan Wake II and it works really good with one minor fps drop for a couple of seconds ,and I hope this feature gets better over time.
I mean neither Intel nor Amd has an alternative to Nvidia's Ray Reconstruction either.
They really need to work on this to compete.
Both companies have equivalent GPUs. The problem always has been the software and drivers
NVidia buyers are sometimes quite stupid! If you ask an NVidia buyer for $500 whether you'd want 25% more performance, or upscaling, I bet most NVidia buyers would say, "oh that's easy. Upscaling" when they don't realize that 25% more raw performance beats upscaling in image quality, every day of the week !!
My Guess is this will be for 7000 series and above.
yes, because only 7000 series has the necessary AI accelerators. 6000 series doesnt have that, so they're gonna be stuck with the shitty form of FSR
I do wish FSR was better. But that $200 difference is no joke.
For features like RT in there current state I don’t care for whatsoever. RT just looks worse and I don’t see how people can justify it. Smeary and blurry mess, not to mention the performance hit.
Dude I have no idea what games you play where RT looks blurry but you might have other issues if thats the case
Rt doesn't seem worth it at all. In a few years when we get path tracing at 144fps without up scaling then we might be cooking
you should try cyberpunk 2077's path tracing, if that doesn't convince you then I suggest getting those eyes checked.
the "blurry" part is probably the result of some compromise that exchanges quality for performance .. the hardware definitely is still lacking raw power to deliver stuff with true full scene raytracing .. once the hardware arrives that can do it there will be a land-slide shift in the industry .. we are still in the build up phase .. Ray-tracing is nice but while the tech is here the performance delivered needs to improve.
Only pt seems to have major palpable effects but you need a 4070 ti super minimum to utilize them properly
Dude FSR3 in Dying Light 2 with LukeFZ is mindblowing. FSR3, the way it is right now, in every game, would be more than enough.
I have an Rx 7900 Gre and i really dont have to use upscalers to play on 1440p ultra settings and game devs are getting super good at Rastarization and RT will have to be better to be enabled as default in every game so amd >> nvidia and me getting 16 gb vram on rx 7900 gre instead of 12gb vram on rtx 4070 super that is 70$ more and fsr is going to get updates and be as good as dlss but what about the vram ? It wont update so still amd > nvidia (thanks for reading)
It is not palatable for anyone who recently bought an expensive GPU to be motivated to replace it with something with tensor cores or equivalent. One thing I learned about tensor cores is it uses less power than GPU cores because they are FP8 unlike a GPU which are FP32. That means physically they occupy a very small percentage on a GPU chip. The solution is to sell a separate card that is for AI.
i love the casual cat invasion
I also saw his dog suddenly show up on his bed 😆
Here is the thing though, AMD has been working a lot with system manufactures and dominating the lower end GPU/APU market, it worked out better for them to not have to invest in machine learning and just use FSR to handle upscaling on systems that weren't running the games at high settings or resolutions to begin with. The goal was to get games with lots of shaders running at decent framerates and that's what FSR does. It's a lot less noticeable on a handheld or a laptop. It was a business strategy. DLSS was going to be better out of the gate and Nvidia is always going to appease to whales in hardware. It made sense for them to save all that money and continue developing in the market they dominate. Nvidia doesn't make CPU's, nor do they help Xbox, PlayStation, Asus, Lenovo, Valve, ect with hardware in their consoles.
While Nvidia dominates the enthusiast market, cooperate systems and their ARM based Tegra processor is in the Switch (Which is weak by today's standards - but we'll see what Gen 2 will do)
I never thought that people would ever be excited to play games at lower resolution. Even with fake frames. Alas, here we are.
It's because GPUs are vastly overpriced and developers don't give a crap about optimizing their games.
@@bnolsen upscaling is an optimization tool, relying on upscaling is optimizing
sure rn it makes the game look worse, in the future games will look as good if not better, look at early TAA, it looked terrible, but modern TAA looks just as if not better then legacy anti aliasing methods, TAA started looking terrible and in some cases still does, but as devs learned how to used it and more importantly design assets with TAA in mind it started looking better and better
all forms of optimization start looking bad, often much worse then upscaling currently does, but as devs learn the tool and the tool gets better games will look better as a result
its a new tool for optimization, were going to be excited for it, many people try and say relying on upscaling is lazy, but upscaling is an optimization tool, before upscaling devs relied on dynamic resolution, which is an objectively inferior option to upscaling
many people think games are less optimized now, but we are half way through a new console generation, now is the time were seeing games only on modern consoles, those games will be harder to run, consoles are the baseline, devs target consoles because thats where most players will be (PC technically has more players but not all of them have powerful PCs, someone playing Counterstrike 1.6 on a dell optiplex from 2008 is technically a PC gamer and counts towards the statistics) so a game is optimized well if it runs well on consoles
A lot of PC players need to get it through their thick skulls that modern consoles are powerful, about on par with the 3060, so if your GPU isn't vastly above that, which statistically it isn't, you should not be expecting more than console performance, but anything under I'd say a 3090 shouldn't expect vastly better then console performance, better for sure, but not vastly, if a game is well optimized (which most actually are on PC when you compare to their console counterparts) if you want double the FPS, you'd probably need over double the power (consoles run operating systems with many more built in optimizations allowing the hardware to be pushed more efficiently then PC hardware) so a modern game that hits 60FPS on console, you'd need at least a 4080 to get 120fps at console visuals, 4090 to push 120fps at max settings (all dependent on resolution obviously but the PS5 tends to render games at around 1440p)
People were always excited to play at a lower resolution if it meant they can try a new game before buying new hardware. Now thanks to the inference accelerators (or as the marketing types like to call it, "AI" "chips") the reduced resolution can look way less crappy, sometimes even better than native. Also, all frames are fake. They're generated by a computer after all. At least the path-traced ones are mathematically true to some extent, but most of games utilize anything from smoke and mirrors up to the famous "evil floating point bit level hacking" to give you a believable experience at an acceptable framerate. The infinite-FPS, infinite resolution, non-upscaled path traced stereoscopic experience is currently available only in theatres (the ones with stages, curtains and actors, not cinemas).
@flamingscar5263 TAA still is worse. Anything that downgrades or washes out the sharpness of the game or the view distance is a big nono.
It doesn't matter if DLSS is better if I can't see the fence in the distance. This is not optimisation and also the resolution slider is not optimisation. It's the opposite.
What does the game Dev doing? Just FSR and DLSS on the game and it's now optimised? Hahaha, no man. Even with DLSS look at cyberpunk as an example. 4080, 4k , High settings with RT and DLSS + FG. What do you think you will get with quality mode. 30 fps 😂 and that is 30 for a district that is not extremely hard on the HW.
By the time AMD has better FSR, Nvidias DLSS will be better yet again.
Yet their drivers will still keep a good amount of people from buying them, i wish amd had the driver stability it used to once have
@@Vshesit literally doesn't have driver problems people have tested this
@@Vshes every card has driver problems and AMD or Nvidia are at the same level. Even Intel has solved 99% of the original problems on their drivers... I have an Nvidia card and I already had problems with drivers when downloading brand new ones that were only a few days old, it happens with everything, not even talking of GPUs you can have problems with your network card drivers or basically anything that has drivers and is running windows
@@Vshes bro what driver problems im curios
The Reason is simple they got hardware inside their GPUs to accelerate their Upscaling DLSS instead of being like AMD
and not requiring special Hardware so it runs on most Gaming Cards.
This question was already answered back in the mid-00's. ATi had flat out BETTER GPU releases than NVIDIA back then, especially vs the FX 5000 series. That one REALLY sucked. But people still bought NVIDIA anyway even though it was worse. Same deal with the Athlon 64 when that released in 2003/2004 versus the Pentium 4's of the time. A lot of people are just vulnerable to marketing and sheer habit even if they won't admit it.
It doesn't matter whether or not AMD's upscaler works well, or not, or is backwards compatible or not... I will not buy another Nvidia GPU... AMD has graphics cards that, simply work, and they work well enough, for a reasonable price.
Nvidia scams their customers, with overpriced experimental tech... I actually bought the rtx 2080 ti, and i had performance issues with that thing since day 1, and while the driver issues got ironed out eventually, the hardware and software issues still cucked its performance... the %-lows were so sht, dude, it's not even funny, every single game was choppy... All that crap, just for raytracing capabilities, which didn't even look good? Absolute scam...
The only reason i bought that rtx 2080 ti is because Nvidia discontinued SLI-support, so my GTX 690's in SLI stopped working, so i could only run games with one 690 at a time... So they artificially made my old setup obsolete, just so they could force me to buy a new GPU (strike 1), said new GPU being overpriced AND experimental, they basically tricked me into PURCHASING a product that was still in beta (strike 2)... and then less than a year later, the next generation GPU's were already out, performed better than my 2080, and were cheaper (strike 3).
Yeah nah, Nvidia pissed away ALL my good will with those 3 strikes.
I swapped to AMD, and i have had nothing but smooth sailing with this GPU since day 1, best gaming bliss i've ever had since my dual 690's. :)
My RX6800XT will do me just fine, i don't NEED raytracing, and i don't NEED FSR or DLSS... I'm good right where i am, with good, old-fashioned regular graphics card, ol' reliable. :)
AMD will NEVER have GPUs that perform and produce Nvidia quality graphics. It's so much more then just FPS and upscaling. There is a reason AMD cards are cheaper. It's like comparing a Cadillac to a Rolls Royce, sure both are "nice" cars, they get the job done, but the user experience, quality and technology difference between them is night and day. This is why Nvidia is one of the largest companies in the world atm. I don't agree with there business practices at all, and hate their GPU lineups, and how they are structured to suck every penny out of the consumer by confusing them causing for pre-mature upgrades, also contributing to unnecessary e-waste, yet AMD is also guilty of this. But I still bought a 4070 Ti because there's no other option then Nvidia. This is why our governments need to ensure we don't have these massive crooks forming industry monopoly's enabling the "Mob-like" tactics. No company can become worth over 2 Trillian Dollars without profiting off the backs and taking advantage, cutting corners, or just downright unethical. Apple, Amazon, they all have scandals of "slave-labor" (Foxconn employees jumping off the roof of their factories, because their living conditions WITHIN THE FACOTRY are so bad), yet Apple is still the biggest company in the world, worth more than Canada''s GDP. They would never have been able to do this if they paid it's factory workers a living wage so they don't have to live in a factory. If these companies could treat it's workers in the Western world as such to make them more money they wouldn't even think about it. Wealth and Evil go hand in hand.
P.S I'm in Canada so I paid a gross amount for my 4070 Ti ($1400 with taxes) the 4090 would run me over $3000 up here. Making all of this even more frustrating for us Canucks.
AMD AI upscaling on gaming devices = possibly Steam Deck but I think ROG Ally with AMD Z1 / Z1Extreme APUs that have the neural (AI) chips on them …. like Ryzen 8000 ApU’s. I think they’ll test the waters with Rx7000 series as well but nothing below the 7000 series will get this AI boost to upscaling imagery imo 👍😱🤔
damn i recently switched from a 7900XTX to a 4080 Super mainly for DLSS, and now FSR might finally catch up lol
As much as love AMD and am hoping that the underdog lands a surprising uptick in image quality.. let's be real.. it won't be as good when it releases.
Nah you’re all good. You got a beast of a card, enjoy it. Don’t get caught up with all these performance metrics and price to performance.
It wont catch up, it will be their first AI upscaling tech while Nvidia will likely push out DLSS 4.0 by then which = far better. DLSS is already far ahead compared to FSR even in FSRs best implementation Avatar it still looks poor enough to not want to use it. Either way enjoy your card, I personally wouldnt have moved over seeing as the 7900xtx is a great card ( although power draw is horrendous ) but you do you.
Good choice, nvidia is better
@@heroicsquirrel3195I wouldn't say better ngl both has advantages and disadvantages
If they fix the upscaling I might stop regretting my 7900xtx. I would be somewhat happy with the equivalent of XESS running on an Intel card. As it is I tend to use XESS, with the performance hit, so having it without the performance hit would nice.
Yes AMD is always so behind on this stuff yet they wrote the X64 standard. Duh
I disagree with the focus on upscaling, basically giving game devs more opportunities to be lazy in their optimization. A well optimized game performs well even on older hardware, meanwhile a horribly optimized game, NEEDS some help, like DLSS or FSR or even XESS... It's just sad imo on how it's going. Before we relied on upscalers, we still had amazing looking games(with or without ray tracing) for very playable performance as long as the devs actually put some time into optimization.
Excellent. That's why older titles are the greatest anyway.
MOVE ON
I do think AMD should focus on AI upscaling and RT tech with the next generation.. but.. i am happy with AMD 7000 gpu's which are comparable to the rtx 30 in ray tracing and can in some titles beat the 40.. which is an interesting spot to be in.
Also i have a 6700xt
I also wonder if the new AI capable CPU's will allow people to keep their 6000 cards when they upgrade to those? Maybe.. probably not
Aren't you the American dude not even a year ago with a video saying why I'm never using amd again
DirectSR a direct x feature will surly be a late season Windows 11 or a Windows 12 only implementation that has been Microsoft's carrot and stick for getting people to upgrade to newer operating systems in the past. This does not bode well for the many people on windows 10 such as my self that don't feel the urge to upgrade just for the sake of upgrading. Their trying to herd the people into a subscription model of windows for those monthly payments. That's fine by then I'll probably be dead anyway or running a Linux build out frustration with Microsoft's horseshit.
FSR has been life saver for me with no compromise at all.....i just don't zoom in to my pc screen to search some irregularities😂
Hmm what about playing without any AI bullshit with just simple native resolution? Where did that went?
Go back to playing bingo old man, its not 2016 anymore
@@dbdvdvbhddbdbb All marketing for the masses
AMD wasn't really lying when they said that you don't NEED to use AI for impressive upscaling because, just as you said, FSR is VERY impressive and usable even without AI. AMD never said that AI-upscaling isn't better, AMD just said that you don't NEED it to get impressive upscaling. Remember that FSR was made to also work on GPUs that had no hope of ever being able to use AI so they chose compatibility over quality. I think that there's a lot of value in that. I say this as someone who doesn't even need FSR because my GPU is an RX 7900 XTX. I say this as someone who remembers what it's like to not be able to afford a GPU like mine. Just ask anyone using a GTX 1080 Ti or RX 5700 XT without enough money to upgrade to the "latest and greatest". For them, FSR was an absolute GODSEND,.
You really have to squint and search for differences between the current three upscalers and FSR3.x will still work on all older cards so it's not like those gamers are being left with nothing. A lot of them use and love FSR because it's all they have and it makes games playable for them, warts and all. They're just happy that it works. You're talking about AMD leaving people behind when it's not AMD that left gamers behind, it was nVidia. AMD's FSR was (and still is) the best gift that any tech company could give to gamers with older cards and they shouldn't be knocked for it because AMD took that hit (with all of you reviewers saying that FSR is crap) to help out real gamers. That's not a reason to admonish AMD, it's a reason to praise AMD.
You're looking at this from a Western "first-world" and self-indulgent monirity perspective. I say minority because, the reality for most people on Earth who don't live in rich countries like Canada, the USA, the UK, France, Germany, Sweden, etc. is that the "latest and greatest" is always far out of reach. There are a lot of gamers still using GTX 1xxx and RX 5xx / 5xxx cards who would be completely unable to play any AAA titles without FSR. You're completely missing the point of FSR because it has a socialistic slant that you Americans might never understand. It's the idea that EVERYONE matters, not just those who can afford .
Ray tracing is legit getting good now with games like AW2, Avatar, robocop, etc. You will need at least upscaling to offset the performance cost.
But, nvidia lacks the vram to properly utilize RT and Frame gen. AMD has more vram but can't use those features as well, maybe frame gen with FSR 3 FG. So pick your poison.
FSR being better remains to be seen. And even if it is, Nvidia users can still use FSR anyway so its a moot point.
Like Going to the GYM and choosing between Flavoured STEROIDS or Go Natura (native) , I just want to play man, that's it. 60FPS offline 144hz online shooters all I need, dont have time to Stop and Stare at the sun reflections, I want to see pixelated boobs or a good Game with a cool story just like a netflix serie or a cool movie that catches you in for a while until it's over and you wish there is a 2nd of it!
Exactly. The other day I was playing Far Cry 5 and decided to cap frames to 30 fps and set resolution to 720p for shits and giggles and...it was fine...I can still play it. I like the game, and like it in anyway. Bloodborne was the best thing I ever every played and that game couldn't even keep consistent 30fps lol
I couldn't tell? what about the backpack in motion?. my eyesights screwed btw. And I just took my VR headset off lol. But I cannot tell the difference in your side by sides. maybe I'm getting old. But FSR 2 and 3 looks great to me
RUclipss compression algorithm destroys any visual comparison one can make. Using it in person however, you can see the big difference
amd cards were always faster nvidia fan girls were always the problem i only buy amd gpus and intel cpus its the best of both worlds.
All 7000 series GPU's have Ai accelerators, so wouldn't surprise me, been waiting for them to do this. The spec sheet of the cards actually list AI accelerators. anyone 6000 series and lower is out of luck, upgrade already ..lol
i hope that my rx7900txt THAT I JUST GOT can use the upscaler
9:24 good to see the true master knows he’s place (on the bed) 🥰🐕😅😂🤣😂🤣
just get an RTX card and get both DLSS and FSR. theres no question here
I really like the price/performance of my amd card and also the open source nature of amd in general. Would better FSR really help that? idk
I recently just switched to 4K and DLSS really helped to make the transition.
My son uses the 6950 XT Red Devil daily and sometimes turning ON FSR the frame rate like barely increases, sometimes not at all
CPU too weak
@@vladvah77 Oh come on, he only 11 years old. Surely a 7700X is plenty for a last generation 6950 XT.
damn he's lucky
@@Kapono5150If it doesn't increase it's either a CPU bottleneck or you are super sampling instead of upscaling.
I think AMD on the GPU side is just not a great company ( CPU are significantly better in how they handle things ). They are one generation if not even two generations behind Nvidia on features even if the performance outside of those features is similar.
So why would I buy one? Sure I might save 100-200 dollars, depending on model of the GPU ( and when looking at the 7900 XTX vs 4080 atm not even that ) but it's just not as a good of a GPU situation.
I have not seen a reason to buy an AMD in a long time, frankly I expect Intel to produce a better GPU at this point!
I don't know Man I don't even use any form of downscaling, if any games require me to downscale my resolution on my expensive AF GPU I simply wont buy the game. People are stuck on downscaling tech but totally leave out the fact we shouldn't need FSR or DLSS to run these terribly optimised console ports. The focus should be on why we need FSR and DLSS to run these console ports, I'm more supportive of FSR simply because its open source and free to use for my friends that still run older Radeon cards but if I pay $1500 for a GPU I expect it to be able to run my games without any of these excuse driven downscalers. The fact DLSS is required to run RT in console ports should telly you Path Tracing and RT simply aren't ready for mass adoption.
this, your comment perfectly summarizes gpu and games realtionship and lazy developers and lack of optimization in their games
@@resko8758 I'm in the Robocop Dis server and was pretty shocked to see none of them have an issue with downscaling being required to run a game where the graphics featured are pretty low quality so much so the game should run on a 2060..
Gamers have just accepted this, same people gave console gamers crap due to downscaling now we need on PC console ports to make them run..
I’m very hopeful that intel can bring some real competition in the cpu and gpu market. Going to wait for some real competition before I decide to buy a graphics card.
Why are people so desperate for AMD to be just like Nvidia when we already have Nvidia? Let AMD continue to be the cheaper generic "Fruit Rings" and Nvidia will remain the more expensive premium "Froot Loops".
Because they want those premium features without paying premium price?
@@arenzricodexd4409 then have fun waiting years to get them then... Then by the time they do get them they are already outclassed. Not defending either company here as both are just trying to mark prices up massively but if you want premium features you have to pay for them...
I would have changed to AMD long ago if Cuda wasn't important to my Adobe and Blender Workflows 🙄🙄
This is a very very good example video that speaker doesn't know what he is talking but he knows very limited and surface understanding of what he is talking. However, he knows games.
Free frames are not really free when you are paying twice the price for a graphics card.just saying
We were already doing that with S.L.I, Crossfire & supposed to be mGPU too. I find it ironic that people keep claiming that no one had the money for S.L.I yet here we are people have plenty of money to blow a single RTX 4090 at $2,000.
I'll say it here RIGHT NOW again. AMD GPUs might not look good with frame generation, but the features they have for native resolution ARE WILD. Their image sharpening is like DLSS but at Native. It brings the details FURTHER on your monitor. Nvidia FAILED AT THIS and they had to REMOVE IT FROM THEIR DRIVERS out of complains.
AMD is far from perfect, their encoder and decoder for video sucks, FSR is far from good at the moment (just to name a few scenarios). If they manage to improve, they can become the best gamer and streamer equipment on this PC gaming world.
I just went back to AMD from a RTX 2080 Ti to a RX 7800 XT and I hope for the best. Their driver is much better than Nvidias, they just need to get their sh... together. I'm enjoying it too much!
i play native and don't care about ray tracing either. Didn'tbuy a 165hz screen to play at 45fps even if the add an Ai upscaler fsr 2 and 3 still be available.
One of the reasons I got an AMD GPU last year was that I wanted as much performance _without_ upscaling as possible for my money. If I get better upscaling for cases where it's really needed then that's appreciated I guess, but I'd rather get back to rendering natively with good performance. I'm just tired of having to check which games have support for which upscaler, on which generation of hardware from a certain company, often with tiny graphical improvements over older games.
Lol the tech bloggers have been getting their ad revenue for weeks hyping up the 5000 series, making folks who spent their money on 4090 regret their decision and Nvidia hasn't even ended up announcing anything so I'd just stop watching any of the speculation vids
Hopefully Intel can continue to make Arc discrete gpus and maybe opesource XeSS more. Competition is good and opensource allows smaller devs to get in the game, no pun intended. Amd has a path forward by what Intel did with XeSS, maybe they can expand upon it.
Absolutely not it isn't. FSR is nowhere close to what DLSS can acomplish. But what can I say coming from an AMD bias channel.
Everything still looks a biy blurry to me compared to native. I would love all that horsepower into edge aa and texture ultra upscaling (like skyrim style super texture pack upgrades)
Here is a detailed summary of the key points from the video text:
- DLSS is Nvidia's flagship upscaling technology that improves performance and image quality. It is difficult to tell games are running at a lower resolution when using DLSS.
- DLSS uses machine learning/AI to reconstruct details and stabilize performance at lower resolutions. Nvidia limits it to their GPUs which use tensor cores.
- AMD created FSR 2 and FSR 3 to compete with Nvidia's DLSS 2.0. However, DLSS often provides a better experience with no compromises and free performance. FSR has some drawbacks.
- Based on analysis of 26 games, DLSS is generally considered the superior upscaling solution currently.
- AMD claims machine learning is not necessary for good upscaling, but their solutions like FSR are still inferior to DLSS in many cases.
- Intel's first graphics cards used AI-enhanced upscaling called XeSS, which looked better than FSR in early showings.
- AMD's CTO said in 2024 they will enable upscaling using AI on their "gaming devices." This indicates AMD may develop their own AI upscaling solution.
- If AMD can deliver AI upscaling comparable to DLSS, it could help close the performance gap between AMD and Nvidia GPUs. Remaining issues would be AMD's weaker ray tracing performance.
- Key challenges for AMD's potential AI upscaling include what GPUs it will work on, and how long it will take to be widely adopted in games given FSR's inconsistent implementation so far.
- Nvidia faced issues initially by limiting DLSS to newer RTX cards, but most popular Nvidia cards now support it. AMD may face a upgrade cycle challenge if limited to 7000 series cards.
- AMD could potentially develop a fallback solution like Intel's to allow broader GPU compatibility, but this would reduce performance gains.
- Overall it remains vague what AMD's plans are, but developing an AI upscaling solution could help address a major weakness of their gaming solutions if implemented effectively.
Papermaster specifically said "gaming devices", he DIDN'T say "graphics cards". It's pretty much established that the next Nintendo device will again use a Nvidia processor, meaning it will pretty much without a doubt support DLSS from day 1. So I'd say Mark is more referring to AMD's presence (dominance?) in the consoles (ala PS5/Series) and gaming handhelds (ala SteamDeck etc.), I'm sure AMD is hearing loud and clear from game devs they need a better upscaler for those devices. Now, if they can apply that tech ALSO to graphics cards on PC, great, but I don't believe that's his focus.