Initial Story Analysis - The Last of Us Part II
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- Опубликовано: 23 авг 2024
- This video is a snapshot of my initial thoughts shortly after playing TLOU2 for the first time, long before many, many, many other subsequent playthroughs and digestions of this compelling and challenging narrative. The thoughts expressed herein are a reflection of my initial reactions to the narrative.
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This game is already a few months old but i’m still kinda shocked about the characters story and decisions like it was a real story 😶
I really enjoyed most of the game but I wish Ellie killed Abby it would have been just about perfect for me if Abby ended up dead.
@@plaguedoctor5639 But the point of that final flashback to Ellie telling Joel that she wanted to try to forgive was what made her stop. My take was she realised that everything that had happened, all the deaths and the monster she was becoming, was because of what Joel did at the hospital. She had to break the cycle.
@@mikes5637 yeah I suppose your right if Abby was killed it would have just lead to lev going on a crusade to kill Ellie and it probably is a better ending character development wise but I really liked Joel so the whole game was just my hyping myself up to kill Abby and I was a bit disappointed.
@@plaguedoctor5639 parts of the story could have been executed better.
Great video. If I may I have been diagnosed with complex ptsd and lived a prolonged traumatic experience. Ellie’s lack of symptoms during Seattle is actually natural as our brains often protect us when we are in unsafe situations. It’s the same reason most soldiers can function in war or abused spouses appear normal. Ur brain is literally in a survival mode that leans heavily on dissociation. It’s why people like myself that experienced long term traumatic experiences have memory issues. I’m actually a current psych student and have been working on a video to explain this aspect of Ellie and why her eventual last departure makes sense when like me Uve lived with substantial trauma. Her last venture is metaphorical for most of us survivors but we all walk away from the light left in our lives at some point. Some of us over and over again In our process of self compassion and letting go. If I ever finish the video I’ll definitely try and leave u a link.
Thanks, Raven. I would definitely love to check out your video once you publish it!
Sounds like a great vid! Please make it and share it!
Thanks all. I’m just trying to finish this semester then I’ll focus on finishing it. I’ll definitely post it to groups and share it here. Thank u for the support
@@lostlifevids please do, and good luck!
@@lostlifevids i understand you 100 percent. My semester has 3 days to go. lol, shoot me a reply here when it comes out.
You’re definitely one of the most thoughtful youtubers. So many people have judged the game based of the overlying actions but never think about the underlying emotions portrayed through it.
Thank you, Kenia. Much 💖 from Texas. 🤠
TLOU is and adults game. It takes some maturity so sink in what it means and to be able to understand it. That is why you have so many people playing it and judging it without understanding any of the concepts involved.
Lucky for the rest...we have Wolf of Thorns to make it so much easier to understand and enjoy the tremendous game TLOU2 is.
Such a great point...so many people want to hate the game, and don’t want to understand how much depth the story has. Certainly a near (if not a definite) masterpiece.
I think she did experience regret for her actions in Seattle, but most of that expression wasn't shown to the players. This was arguably a poor choice, but after some time, I was able to fill in the blanks.
I'm almost more fascinated when a piece of media holds back key information like this. It keeps me on my toes and forces me to think hard for what the creators' intentions were.
Think it was more to depict how Ellie is not trying to make Peace with herself rather unintentionally keeps remembering Joel's death. This acts as a center piece for driving their through the 3 days but also push her to find Abby again since she thinks once she kills abby, the nightmares will stop. Problem being her 3 days add more burden and unrest to her on top of Joel's death and towards the choking of Abbey she remembers her wanting to forgive Joel for his actions and how she abby are not so different so she finally let's go to honour Joel
@@akatsukino660 wow I never thought of that, thats actually really interesting
Yeah, actually at that part where they were on the farm and playing family, I kept looking at the screen in disbelief and repeating "wtf?" in my head... But how skinny and bad Ellie looked compared to before told a story.. And when the panic attack came around, it explained a lot.
Also when she burst into tears in the end - it feels so relieving as it all finally registers and she can start moving on.. She lets go of her denial and... moves into the acceptance stage.
If I had done such horrible things blinded by revenge... It would make them too real if I wrote them in a journal...
Joel, Abby and Ellie all are similar in the way that they were bloody and don't trust people but then change to be more peaceful.
Joel grew older and by that experience he have changed (that's why he helped abby).
Abby was bloody and merciless, but what changed her is the journey with the kid (lev) that story changed her and made her merciful.
Ellie also started to be bloody when Joel died and started killing blindly but after she lost Jessie, dina, and almost Tommy she knew that she is on the wrong path. Ellie didn't kill abby at the end because she saw lev which symbolizes (victims of their problems, the loss that that path causes, humanity).
Pls inform if you knew that cuz many people don't.
I also think PTSD is a complicated thing and despite the trauma she feels for her actions she has a strong emotional connection to Joel and all of it connects to him and his death. In a human way it makes since to not make since lol.
It's true naughty dog have done what many are afraid of putting story above pandering to make a couple millions. Many companies would have made the cliché Hollywood sequel and made millions without any backlash but they chose to make a compelling story that not everyone would enjoy but the one artistic integrity required.
I understand your criticism it's something I hadn't thought about perhaps they could've made Ellie face more PTSD for her actions. I believe it happened so late because she repressed them believing she is the right and it's only until she fights Abby again that she collapses under all the emotional strain.
My thoughts exactly! During those three days in Seattle Ellie was repressing so much pain and trauma , that when her and Dina do eventually get their ideallic farmhouse, Tommy's bloodlust forced her to confront memories that she had previously stapled shut into a dark corner of her mind. At that point of the story in the barn, Ellie feels like moving on from Joel (and Abby by extension) would be dishonoring to not only Joel's memory, but Tommy as well. Even though it is incredibly painful to watch as she I think knowingly makes the wrong decision, it is one that she has to make in order for her to fully and completely heal.
Never has a game stuck with me like The Last of Us Part II has. I've basically thought about it to some extent everyday since playing through it (thankfully with no spoilers) on launch. A masterpiece, a flawed masterpiece, but a masterpiece none the less.
@@Young_23 Pandering is when a character is made a certain gender, race or sexuality just because and as no point to the story plus writing is generally poor. Someone like Rey, Finn the 1 second kiss between the two girls in ROS.
Dina could have been developed better but she's necessary to the story and her character is good. Lev is well written as a story and belongs in the game. Their sexuality is not their personality and is not put above the story.
You say that if it wasn't put above the story than their wouldn't be criticism. But most of the genuine criticism never even mentions their sexuality at all or how it somehow effects story. Because it as no bearing on story. Making characters a different sexuality is not hard. They already made Ellie a lesbian l in the DLC it was a touching story and some people still complained.
I've seen many criticism as well. From those who love and don't like, they say the game as it's flaws but is still good. Execution could've been better in some aspects but to say it utterly fails is rather extreme.
Watching a game isn't the same. If you played and the flaws took you out that's more of a personal experience rather than fact. As for some those flaws will not bother them as much it's a completely subjective point.
Hollywood woke is very different from actual representation. Just cause we start of with a white male lead doesn't mean things are now woke because of the addition of these characters. That's just representation Abby's buff there's a in game reason for it and it perfectly physically shows how far her obsession with revenge went. Lev is transgender and then their is her story she doesn't need character development like what Ellie and Abby got to still be a good character(Modern misconceptions of writing). Representation is just the giving them specific gender,race or sexuality that's half the battle though. Next is writing them well which Abby is love or hate her. Also Abby and Lev are written to parallel Ellie and Joel while it simultaneous contrasting Ellie's actions. Abby stories is similar to Joel story from the part 1 after she finished going through Ellie's journey. She's not a copy though.
Every one wants to representation which isn't a bad thing especially when it's done well which in this case is.
Dina could have been better I agree but the story changes dramatically without her. Ellie's time in seattle is very different now especially the guitar store which is a very touching moment. Ellie's romance with Dina is just a relationship that just started they've had repressed love for each other for a long time, they talk about it, it's in Ellie's diary. You're seeing the highlights not a full year relationship. How are the I love you and sexuality related here? it's her romance with Ellie not her being Bi. If two straight characters are saying I love is that their sexuality being put above their story or us that just romance?Jessie should have been used more I agree. Dina is also giving more weight to Ellie's decisions especially in the later half.
Mel wasn't sent to a combat zone. If you remember during the game she went to the FOB to just be a medic not fighting. The only reason there ends being combat on the way there is because of an ambush. She also stays back during most combat near the trains she stays far back. She is about 7 months, pregnant don't like being looked down upon as useless it makes sense she'd want to help out in any way she can. Going to provide medical support in any way she can. She was also cleared for a duty and a pregnant woman in their world would have more combat training than the ordinary one. The path to the aquarium isn't dangerous we see them go there all the time without any interference.
ptsd doesnt happen right away. sometimes it takes time to start appearing. people repress a lot of trauma, the brains do that to protect us.
@@Young_23 Shoved into the story: When a character such as Abby goes through development they are not shoved in, Lev goes through her own story as well. Good characters move the story along and effect it Abby and Lev both do this. They serve their purpose and are written well. Take them out and things change. All of this disproves they are shoved into the story.
Preferential treatment:Before this we also see that Abby suffers nightmares due to her traumatic past. Because of Abby's revenge she lost her lover and all of her friends died. For saving Lev she lost her whole faction the only thing she as left is Lev. Abby also goes through 4 months of slavery and then crucifixion. Lev lost her mother, her sister she was also almost forced into a marriage. When are any of these characters treated better than the other.
Put on a pedestal: Ellie and Abby are written to parallel each other. They are good people who have been dealt horrible circumstances forcing them to go down a dark path. One thing that proves she is not put on a pedestal is the theatre. Abby almost kills Dina, she's blinded by anger of course and believes than Ellie killed a Mel intentionally. If they really wanted to show Abby moral superiority they would've had her let go immediately. Instead they show exactly how a angry rage filled person would act while also showing Abby's character development by letting them go after Lev reminds she's not that person anymore if this was Abby from the beginning of the game she would've killed them both. Abby is also portrayed to have strong tribalism, which offers commentary itself on some players reaction but that's a different conversation. She doesn't view the seraphites in the same light as the WLF's until she meets Lev and Yara. This is as well shows she is not put on a pedestal. Nothing Ellie does is worse than what Abby does especially since the writing is made to mirror their actions, one being above the other would ruin the narrative. One of the points of this game is that sometimes there aren't bad guys just people who make bad decision and have to deal with the consequences.
Joel : First of Joel his story already came full circle he finally got to be the father he never was and he regained his humanity. He helped the community and people who passed by and his relationship with Ellie was very good until the reveal he lied to her. Even then Ellie was willing to try and forgive him. Joel story was done instead of him being one of those characters they keep dragging back even though their story is done like Maul in Solo. They used Joel's death to set the tone of the game, put us into Ellie's mindset, drive the story, sets up two twists Ellie is looking for a way to forgive herself for not trying to fix things earlier and that Abby isn't the bad guy just as morally ambiguous as the rest. All of this is done while paying respect to his memory with all those flashbacks which are some of the best moments in the game. Also Joel out of character as been debunked.
I decided to actually go in depth with your points ended up writing a lot more than expected. I have to ask did you play the game? Don't take this as an attack but much of what you say seems like it's from someone who watched play through. You though Mel was in combat and you think the game is somehow replacing Joel and Ellie with Abby and Lev. If there's part 3 it's clear Ellie is a big part of it Abby, Tommy Dina, Lev, JJ are coming back.
Good analysis and I agree; I suspect that Ellie didn't reflect on her Three Days of Hell in Seattle because she repressed it, telling herself it was for the sake of Dina and JJ, but in reality because she didn't want to face the hard question that maybe she wasn't in the right (there is certainly plenty of evidence for that, after all). It wasn't until she had Abby on the ropes in California that she suddenly realized that it was long past time to put it to rest-- as evinced by her flashback to Joel, peacefully playing guitar on their last night of joy and reconciliation together... which was also her first "peaceful Joel" flashback; all previous flashbacks were of "traumatic death" Joel.
If there's a TLOU3 I hope that Ellie includes some of that introspection; maybe she tells herself that she wants peace but if she runs across Abby again she has to put herself to the test and find a way to accommodate, or maybe even forgive.
As an aside, I also find it interesting that the theater in Seattle where Team Jackson holes up had the title of a play or movie on the marquee: "Cassandra". In Greek myth, Cassandra was a prophetess with a curse: she could see the future, but she could only see the horrible things that were going to happen; and furthermore, when she tried to warn people about the bad things that were going to happen, no one would believe her.
So I suspect (and hope) there are threads yet to be pulled.
Awesome stuff about Cassandra! Every time I looked at that marquis, I suspected there was something more to the meaning and why it was chosen, but when I researched her, I was never able to put that specific connection together the way you did. And, yes, my initial only complaint was Ellie's lack of internalization of what she's done, but I'm grateful that it leaves us something for us to explore through her in a potential redemptive third game.
I felt the moment where she sees the memory of Joel with the guitar and bursts into tears, letting Abby go in the end worked so well for me, because I had been waiting desperately for that moment when everything catches up to her. Where I see her snap back to herself, from behind that hatred and tunnel vision of revenge. The violence done before was buried under denial.. And all the things she had done resulted in her also being in such a bad skinny shape, not sleeping or eating...
Always such thoughtful comments from an at-odds username, my friend
@@WolfofThorns Thank you for the reply and the very good video. Really glad to see a more thoughtful take that isn't so much about the literal "what you see" gameplay but more about the psychology that was imo as well really well captured!
The recovery time of these characters, tho: in Seattle day 3 Ellie has a broken arm and nose, a pregnant Dina has multiple traumas on her face and an arrow on her shoulder, while Tommy has been shot with a bullet passing through his eye/skull and an arrow through his leg, and yet they manage to survive this, going back home with no horses or anything useful. Compared to this, Joel's wound in Winter chapter was a piece of cake and Ellie's surgeon ability/first aid is over 8000.
Joel literally got impaled from one floor to another. Half of left behind and more was sleepy Joel and Ellie taking care of him. These people know how to survive the apocalypse, and what happens in the theater is hard to get back up from, but isn’t something new, as they experienced stuff like this all their life
@@JohnTramonto tlou part 1: serious injury leads to a whole winter chapter in which you fight for survival and question whether your partner is alive or not; tlou part 2: serious injury leads to cut to black and everybody's dancing in a farm one year later...It would have been cool to see the way back to safety in Jackson, just saying. All the story has this cut to black moment where the characters teleport to the exact spot.
@@JohnTramonto just to make things clear: I was thrilled by the story, kept me stuck to the pad. It's just I didn't expect them to take the easy way out on some narrative forks.
@@JohnTramonto yeah you're right, you have to overlook them in both games, but part 2 requires a deeper suspension of disbelief 'cause the narrative and cutscenes lead you towards another topic (it's like the director is whispering "do not focus on that, focus on this topic instead"). Hope I got my point cross. Is it just me who has had this feeling while playing?
@@SirMerx I only felt what you say in the change from the theater to the farm, it did not bother me, but I noticed it very quickly, although if you think about it, imagine that they make you a cinematic or about 10 minutes where they explain it to you, you would stay the same, Only with a justification that is within the canon, that's why I don't give it much importance, but in that case you are right. Otherwise, the other scene changes I find reasonable and normal, for example when arriving in Seattle, or when Abby and flashbacks are hammered.
I feel something neat that not many people picked up on was the moth on the guitar. Symbolizing her constant search for “light” or the remaining fireflies that killed Joel (since moths are attracted to light). And at the end when she put down her guitar it shows she done searching.
That's actually pretty cool, Big Dog. Not something I picked up on. Great stuff, thanks for sharing.
@@WolfofThorns
No problem
It's really sad when a piece of art that genuinely tries to challenge its audience in a meaningful way is violently rejected like this has been. The idea of outing others for the sake of "us vs them" tribalism is a message people really need to be thinking about, and I thought the game portrayed what that kind of mentality can do to a person perfectly. There are so many beautifully crafted parallels and foreshadowing of events the game(s) laid out, but too many people seem to be ignoring them to call it "bad writing" just because an event they didn't like happened. (Even though it still served the game's narrative.)
Abby in particular was the highlight for me, as her story perfectly mirrored Ellie's and then Joel's, with both her and Ellie seeing each other (or Joel in Abby's case) as the first aggressor and losing everything for it, but Abby is able to later recover from her trauma only after bonding to the Serphite siblings. She would have normally killed them without a second thought as faceless enemies, but when forced into a position where she has to see them as more than that, she is finally able to grow and change as a person. Her revenge that she thought would stop her nightmares did not. Only finding compassion for one of those "faceless enemies" (as she also saw Joel, though that was obviously more personal, and notably also how Ellie sees Abby as well as her friends) allowed her to be happy and find fulfillment in her actions again. Ellie meanwhile rejects her happiness similarly to Abby's situation with Owen, for the same reasoning - hoping to use revenge as a way to cope with her trauma. But I interpreted her outcome as much happier. By not following through with killing Abby, and instead letting go, she avoiding treading the same path Abby had gone down, as well as Joel's which had started this whole cycle to begin with. She essentially broke the cycle of hatred there. Whether it will help her heal is up to debate, but I think the scene of her leaving the guitar (her watch equivalent) peacefully behind at the end is some symbolism that speaks for itself.
As for Ellie's PTSD, as I mentioned before, it's a result of a tribalism mindset. In her eyes, though she does feel some morality guilt, Abby's friends were the villains. Faceless aggressors who caused her pain and deserve pain back. It's remarkable how easy it is to dehumanize someone if you see them as the one in the wrong. It's the same way Abby can torture and kill Joel without being a monster to everyone else. The biggest struggle to her was crossing the line between killing for survival and killing for personal vendetta, which she's assumedly not done before. That in itself shakes her even if she may not feel real sympathy for the people she killed as individuals. The pregnancy kill being morally worse is pretty straightforward as well, though you could make the argument it was sensitive because of Dina's condition at the time, especially since it's later paralleled by Abby being willing to kill Dina despite being pregnant until she's reminded by Lev's hesitation that she could easily have killed him like that as well. Again, that "othering" and dehumanization theme permeates the narrative, and I loved that it had the balls to tackle something as horrifically "human" as that. It's in no way a mere "revenge is bad" story. It forces us to confront something we do in both fictional stories like this, and in everyday life. Demonizing others for not being on our side, or someone whose motives don't we understand from our naturally small viewpoint.
Its not a matter of a game trying to be challenging and people rejecting it because of that, its a matter of how those people receive the message. Spec ops the Line is a good example of a challenging game being well received and a beloved game.
I'm not going against your argument, I'm just saying there's more to a game being turned down then it being a product that challenges people
@@andrewrogers3067 I never said it was because it challenged them. But people are literally only mad because Joel died and they think the message is somehow just "revenge bad" which I'm pretty confident comes from pure negative bias making people shut down their critical thinking. Which is a very stupid way to consume media. I wasn't a big fan of Spec Ops The Line as a comparable example, so I can't speak on that.
@@littlekitsune1 There are plenty of people who don't like the game for more then just "Joel died", me being one of them despite me predicting Joel was going to die back when the first game came out.
Generalizations like this only serve as a bad view into the people who do like the game for legitimate reasons, like the one in this video.
@@andrewrogers3067 That's great, then! You're the first one I've seen.
@@littlekitsune1 No offense, but I don’t think you looked hard enough if I’m really the first one
Loved the first game and loved this one as well, even if the story was an emotional downslide. But I get it .
The thing that bothers me is not about the game itself, it's more of the people that hated the game because they feel Joel shouldn't have died, or that more importantly to my point - he should not have fallen into Abby's trap as he and Tommy did. Everyone complains that "Joel would not have done that. The Joel we j]=know would never have given his name or trusted these people." etc ... but I have to argue that the writing is on the wall. It's all shown in the game if you just pay attention and think about it. This is 4 years AFTER Joel and Ellie have been living comfortably in Jackson. They're community is thriving and the people there are happy and comfortable. Their fears have been diminished over time as they have systems of patrolling and security measures. You see Joel's home and you see he's writing songs, crafting woodcarvings and guitars. Him and Ellie have a movie night on a regular basis ... they are comfortable. So it stands to reason that they WOULD in fact let their guard down and be comfortable enough to chat with these new people and offer them help with supplies and things.
Sure the old Joel from part 1 would never have done so, but thats because of how they were living. Martial law, killing to survive, living in abandoned buildings, fighting the military, the infected and hunters. But part 2, with their lives in Jackson as it was ... I can believe the story the way it happened.
NoahF57
Also I think they were trying to be helpful after Abby offered them shelter with her people. Remember that we’re not only in the midst of an infected hoard, but they were also in a massive snow storm. They were appreciative of that and that’s why Tommy offered them to restock before they moved in.
Everything that you said, plus this, plus a lapse in judgement and letting their guard down all led to that heartbreaking moment.
Also I must say I think them letting their guard down also shows their humanity. That they’re fallible. They made a mistake. They’re only human.
Joel, Abby and Ellie all are similar in the way that they were bloody and don't trust people but then change to be more peaceful.
Joel grew older and by that experience he have changed (that's why he helped abby).
Abby was bloody and merciless, but what changed her is the journey with the kid (lev) that story changed her and made her merciful.
Ellie also started to be bloody when Joel died and started killing blindly but after she lost Jessie, dina, and almost Tommy she knew that she is on the wrong path. Ellie didn't kill abby at the end because she saw lev which symbolizes (victims of their problems, the loss that that path causes, humanity).
Pls inform if you knew that cuz many people don't.And put ur self on Abby's shoes what would u do??
Someone who stopped the vaccine and killed ur father what would u do ?
Another thing I'd like to add is that the wolves aren't very different from the people in Jackson, so that adds to Joel and Tommy letting their guard down.
The thing that I can't justify at all is the pregnant woman going around outside without worries and people letting her do that. That's just plainly crazy!
great summary thanks for making this
My pleasure! Glad you enjoyed it.
I’m still baffled that people were so upset because they thought Abby was transgender, even after learning she isn’t, but there was absolutely no backlash that Lev was. Like we’re they only upset that she was basically a bodybuilder
I think most people knew, I mostly just seen "muscular woman bad, not realistic"
That is just a pebble in a pond. It's not what made a lot of players cringe, it was a forced agenda and forced plot that violated well-established characters and brought absolutely uninteresting new ones. Certainly regardless of how it sucks people still can appreciate it, although it's incomparable how bad it is to what good sides of the game there are.
It was very realistic for her to be buff. The WLF base had what appeared to be a very good weight room and obviously none of them were starving and malnourished as it looked like there was plenty of food available.
I am having enormous game hangover, can't stop collecting facts, opinions, underlying stories, etc. that concerns this masterpiece of gaming.
Ellie’s side of the story perfectly encapsulates what can happen when you’re short sighted wanting revenge. She turned into a blood thirsty monster so consumed on one person that she forgets everything and everyone around her. By the time she realized what she was doing was fruitless, it was ultimately too late.
Great job. It's actually a great point that Ellie never has a moment of introspection over what she did to people like Nora and Mel, so props for pointing that out. Otherwise, I too believe this was a groundbreaking game. My biggest problem with it is the time skip between the theater fight and Ellie's trip to Santa Barbara. I wish the game had ended after Ellie and Abby's clash in the theater with Part III picking up at Ellie, Dina, and Tommy's return to Jackson. This would be a great opportunity to further expound upon Ellie's reaction to her days in Seattle (as well as Joel's death). Perhaps then there would be time for her to marinate in the realization that her actions have made her just as bad as Joel and Abby. This would also be a great opportunity to see Abby and Lev's journey to Santa Barbara and how their relationship grows along the way. It would also show us what Abby and Lev's enslavement looked like, that way we _really_ got to see what made Abby the unrecognizable figure we see at the Pillars.
Thank you, Absinthian. I didn't personally have an issue with the time jump, though the thought of playing their trek back home, to say little of Abby and Lev's journey to Cali would have been great. I'm always down for more TLOU content any way I can get it.
Ellie's journey to Santa Barbara seems interesting based on what was in the journal.. Though I don't think there would be much to 'play' during those eventful moments as she was hiding in a basement for sometime.
Who elses favorite character was Abby and when being forced to play as Ellie at the beach Scene you allowed Abby to hit you a few times.
i think the feedback from Dina and Jessie served the purpose of trying to get Ellie to consider her motives, she just chose to ignore it till she lost so much.
Thank you for vision of this game. I loved every inch of this sequel and every character have a very special place in my mind. Also, can we say that playing as Abby is A MA ZING? Holy smokes, you almost feel invincible in her shoes. Can't wait for what's next, but if there's not going to be another sequel, I'm pleased with this conclusion. Heartbroken, but pleased.
Thank you, Jose. I really enjoyed the Abby portions of play.
Loved this reflections you share in your videos about The Last of Us.
Please, more.
I bought the last act. Remember, humans are irrational. That's one of the greatest points about this game. Most media potray characters as fully rational beings. Hence why satire is a thing. Satire maks fun of people being rational when we all know that in reality humans are irrational and make stupid decisions, but know that we would make those same stupid decisions if we found ourselves in the same situation. So Ellie going after Abby makes sense. Also, Ellie is starved, depressed and still hurting. When you're in a state of starvation, you don't have the mental bandwith to review your actions in a sober manner.
Dude you’re so underrated! Amazing
I appreciate that, my dude. 🤠
truly a masterpiece in storytelling
The game is also super fun, too
It is a masterpiece for Sure, but in some parts of the game it was really no fun to Play(but not gamplaywise, it was the Story itself that forced me to Put down my Controller cuz it was really depressing and brutal in some ways, but that is what nd wants us to feel about it, and they nailed it with it), the game is almost as good as the 1st one and i still cant understand all the haterz thatactin like little school kids
From one old wolf to another (I'm 59) I'm starting to think that the older the player the more likely you are to get the game's intention. Maybe we're past the age where people see Joel as this untouchable father figure.
When the game switched me to playing Abby - at the point where I was still reeling from Joels murder - I was like "Wtf, Druckman? You're making me play again as the villain." But then within a very short time you get the reveal that the Doctor Joel murdered (which never sat right with me; I tried replaying that encounter a couple of times only to realise that you can only spare the nurses) was, in fact, Abby's father. Then I was like "oh well played, Mr Druckman."
And this is the thing I don't get: why are so many people on board with Ellie going on a murderous rampage to avenge her surrogate father, but somehow playing as Abby suffering the consequences of avenging her actual dad "ruined the game for me"?. And I was fine with Ellie sparing Abby at the end. Literally never before encountered an endgame boss fight THAT I DID NOT WAT TO WIN. It was a simple concept... and it blew me away.
Sorry to be so late to the party, but as I mentioned elsewhere only just got the game for Christmas.
I disagree with your take on Ellie's apparent lack of PTSD over killing Abby's friends. Her emotional shock from witnessing Joel be brutally killed in front of her and her thirst for revenge clouded her guilt. In the end, her guilt did burst through, with Joel's image flashing during Abby's drowning. The way he looked at her, was as if he was watching from beyond and not approving of what Ellie was becoming. That was her breaking point.
Hey, my dude. Let me just say, I absolutely adore each and every video on here, even the ones not associated with TLOU 1&2. However, I wanted to provide some insight that may assist. I'll try to keep this brief but PTSD is an endless well of emotion, numbness, and pain and suffering.
I am a PTSD survivor of several types. I suffered abuse as a young child (many kinds, not just verbal) 2+ years old. I also suffered PTSD through separation of my parents via divorce from a very young age 2+years old as well as from different forms of violence from people I loved and despised, blurring to the point it felt to be the same feeling. Anyway, that's just insight.
I'm a 32 year old woman and found a lot more of fragmented areas of Ellie's subconscious (way more than Abby - I'll get to that in a moment) due to her going through the tumultuous experience of PTSD. I know you voiced concerns regarding Ellie's inner conflict regarding her own actions of inflicting unbearable violence. Such a backwards view of our once witty, roughened, backtalker albeit innocent and completely loveable protagonist.
Yet, trauma comes in many forms. If you've been through extremely horrendous situations where you've had to defend yourself from others wishing to do you harm (whether it's nature delve in a sexual depravity, physical violence, or emotional manipulation) you begin to compartmentalize parts of yourself, almost automatically.
Many of us already are aware that the brain does a flight/fight response. However, many of us PTSD survivors know of the other cerebral response to trauma, which is standing still or moving out of ones body, also known as dissociating. Not all PTSD survivors dissociate. This usually happens if flight or fight is not an option.
Which if you think of it carefully, Ellie never gives fight or flight response to any of her victims, does she? She perpetuates herself, her acts of violence onto others in more than just a violent physical way.
When she viewed her victims, (every W.L.F. member, every major character who stood in her way or god forbid tried to, but miserably failed to defend themselves against her-I'm pointing at you, Whitney) she basically saw herself not give any of of them a choice in their fate. And what does she do?
She compartmentalized every memory of her atrocities, more than likely convincing herself somewhere deep down that they all deserved it. Even Owen and Mel, for getting in her way, basically saying but not saying, "Look what you made me do"
Yes, in the moment, she shows, or, her subconscious mind and body shows us the horrors she very much knows she committed and very much knows in the moment or, perhaps. While dissociating walking back to the Penacle after killing Nora. When she gets whisked away by Tommy, Jessie falling behind to view the scene, we notice a very far away, shocked, completely unmasked Ellie realizing the severity of those moments crashing down on her.
But our Ellie is like Iron. Very much like our beloved Abby.
She is fully aware of the monster she's become, my good friend. She is simply compartmentalizing her actions. Until she is finally confronted with her demons (I can literally feel my thumb mashing the square button violently due to some action she commits in TLOU3 or comes to terms with or will 😂) in our upcoming threequel (albeit not any time soon, apparently they're struggling with a concept even though it's been technically written - hey, maybe we can collaborate and send it to Naughty Dog lol)
So, just wanted to come on here and point that out. Just as you said before in other videos, next game is about both Ellie and Abby coming back to the light in full. That's how Ellie comes back full circle, I think, by rehashing old dark memories. If Abby is meant to feel the weight of her choices with sending Ellie (who's probably no way shape or form reluctant, she wanted this because she really didn't see much value to her life. She says her life would've mattered if she died for the cure. Wouldn't it be so poetic if Abby, after coming all this way, after walking through the still intact home of the man she spent so many years hating, hunting, finally starts to crumble when she realizes what Ellie meant to Joel? I bet you there will be another rehash there, maybe Abby saying no, once again, or wanting to, when realizing the true cost of what killing Ellie means) to the fire flies to develop another cure, then I bet you Ellie faces her demons of her own actions by actively trying to right wrongs, which would be by putting herself in Abby's shoes (finally) and actually seeing the good parts of her, and vice versa. This will allow Abby to see the parts of Ellie that Joel fell in love with as a father, much the same way Sarah was his world pre outbreak day.
It would definitely be poignant.
Ill reach out to discuss on one of your twitch discussions, I've got some ideas I'd love to talk about further if given the opportunity!
I love all your TLOU II videos !
Thank you!
What a great review of the game! You are the first one to point out that Ellie didn't even think once about what kind of pain she inflicted on others. So far I didn't think of it. And you're right, it would have been an impactful addition to the game. A journal entry about what she did with Nora, which obviously shock her, or Ellie asking repeatedly for Dina all while looking at Mels dead body would have been great. I must say though, I still buy into what Ellie did. She is shaken by what she did, but the traumatization that happened with witnessing Joels death is overshadowing everything else. She is not trying to find peace and redemtion, she is nourishing her hate and with that, feeding her PTSD. Maybe, if there ever will be a Part 3, we get to see some remorse of her killing these people.
I am right there with you, Svenni. 🤠
Abby didn't think twice of the pain she caused. Ellie did. Which is why Abby is an annoying and selfish character. Example: Ellie vomited after realizing Mel was pregnant. Also, Ellie always killed in self defense. Nora called the guards and triggered Ellie, the vita girl tried to pull a fast one, Mel and Owen did the same. Yeah, they were threatened by Ellie and did what they did in self defense, but Ellie also told them she'd let them go if they worked with her. Would she have kept her word is another question.
@@psychedelicyeti6053 I am not sure about that.
Abby told Yara, that she helped her and her brother Lev because she 'needed to lighten the load'. Her nightmares didnt' stop after she killed Joel. She didn't sleep well. And when Owen confronted her about it, implying that what they did to Joel was bad, she acted angry. Now, I might be overthinking this but this kind of reaction is seen (mostly) in people who are insecure and/or uncertain of deciscions they made.
And in the end, when she didn't want to fight Ellie, I got the feeling she said that, because she finally understood what unconditional love can cause. Maybe the love she feels for Lev gave her a change of heart. She would do anything to protect him, just like Joel did for Ellie and maybe she can see that now.
Ellie might have shown clearer signs of remorse, yet she still couldn't stop herself from killing more and more people. None of thesd two characters own a moral high ground.
I am not saying that what you said is wrong. See, that's the thing with Part 2. One can interpret anything into it, and it is always right. I really like that it makes me think so much. I do understand that it is one of its greatest weaknesses as well
Whether it's a trash game or a masterpiece, this is the kind of game that will be remembered and talked about for years to come, for better or worse, just like the first game.
Well I think she completely denies what happened in Seattle. Maybe she goes to hunt Abby parcially to give those deaths some actual meaning. Of course when she is actually killing her she realizes she's not a revenge angel and that Abby is just another human being who has people to care and who care for her.
Also there's something amazing to somewhat confirm this: in the last of us part 2 we only see Ellie's song "the guardian" partially written. If you hear the full version played by shawn james you realize the song actually talks about death. It says "I've become a bringer of death, a lover of life. The one who guards from the dark of the night". My guess is that she finishes the song after what happens in Santa Barbara and after the ending. Accepting her actions and starting to heal and redeem herself in the process.
Of course this could have easily been avoided with another PTSD scene. But I like more what we actually got.
PD: Sorry if there are some grammar mistakes. English is not my first language.
The parallel between Ellie and Abby’s journeys within those 3 fateful days reminds me of the chimera ant in HxH, where we get to see Gon lose his humanity and Meruem gain his. Simple yet very effective method of storytelling, making us question our own humanity
This is masterpiece. Best thing in whole Video/Game/Movie industry.
To be honest, I completely agree. What you are watching is an amalgam of my immediate thoughts and feelings after completing the game, still feeling the bruises and rope burns on my soul from that ending, and still nursing the wounds of being disappointed that Ellie never internalized her actions, though I realize that this gives her room for development in a third game. While I will never enjoy replaying the final duel between them, this game is indeed a masterpiece. I need to sticky a comment about that. It's not a popular video of mine, so I often forget about it.
Disagree. The narrative feels forced and superficial with many plot devices. Lack of introspection by Ellie encapsulates the problem of the entire story - character motivations are synthetic and feel like there are major gaps. Decisions are made abruptly or do not have an organic layering of character development. While still a decent game, it sits far below the true masterpiece of the original.
I wouldn’t call Joel’s choices “terrible” - he knew that if he let the Fireflies live, they wouldn’t stop until they hunted Ellie down and killed her.
If anything, it’s the Fireflies and Marlene who made a terrible choice by not giving Ellie the option to give consent to give up her own life for the _possible_ vaccine, which we don’t even know would have worked anyway. Abby’s dad was a surgeon - NOT an epidemiologist or scientist.
It was a perfect masterpiece to me
I actually agree and this is a very regrettable title after some months of being able to digest my feelings about the game. However, what you are seeing in this video is my immediate thoughts after finishing it. Devastation, bruises on the soul, and all.
@@WolfofThorns I understand, the video was very well done 👍🏻
Great Video. I think thats she only suffers from PTSD from Joels murder is the best part to see in her psyche. She is becoming what she hated. She is obsessed like Abby, cold and sadistic like David, and pushes ppl away like Bill. Yet she cannot get of this path
The Last Of Us Part II and it's narrative, script are masterpiece....
As good as a short analysis can be. About your point about Ellie's PTSD. I reckon they kind of had to do this that way. Having Ellie be crushed by the things that she's done (like she most likely would be) it would have stopped her from going after Abby. And if she went for it anyway (maybe by being guilted into it by Tommy) she would probably be very hasitant of her actions, narrative not naturally concluding in the ending that they wanted to make. Just a thought.
It would've been interesting if Ellie had two ptsd moments. Obviously the first one and the second one that you mentioned where she sees Dina's face on the dead body. At the same time where you mentioned how Ellie went after abby at the end without reason, I think that's the point. It just shows how messed up she is at that point
100% agree with you! Something always bothered me about the third act and you put it to words! I still think this game is masterful!
I think the reason why this isn’t brought to the fore in this part of the game is simply that Tommy’s visit left her feeling guilt ridden, Tommy is the only piece of Joel she has left and after he accuses her of walking away, knowing full well that Joel wouldn’t rest to avenge her, she can’t take it anymore, we saw her deal with her actions in game and this is the part of the game where you truly see the impact of Joel’s death, as she went on a revenge mission without time to process her loss fully. I think it’s actually quite smart, uncomfortable to play and I think it could have been done differently / the game could have ended a little earlier but she was hiding from her feelings for Joel, which is why she left Jackson and was in the middle of nowhere trying to forget.
I feel that this is the best and most accurate description of how the players who did insurance game feel about the ending, thank you for your hard work and beautiful narration
It's not explicit, but if you look closer before the final fight with Abby, you will realize that when Ellie cuts Abby down she notices how worried and caring Abby is with Lev. That gives us a very clear sign of reflection towards what she should do there. She doesn't even know what she was supposed to do when she finds Abby in that situation all weak and fragile. She only snap up out of it after that painful flashback with Joel suffering.
i'm probably in the minority, but i think we should have had more abby sequences closer to the end. the bit in the neighborhood before she gets captured by the slavers seems to cut our time with her short
I really liked your analysis, but I’m forced to disagree about the last part of the game. Ellie feels compelled to go after Abby because she’s left with no other coice. One side, she did horrible things in Seattle and that girl who would say “HOLY SHIT JOEL” whenever our beloved Joel did something too brutal was gone. The other side, she wasn’t able to fully forgive Joel (although she wanted as we learn in the beginning of the game when she tells Dina she’s invinting Joel over for a movie). So, for that, and this is the most important part, she doesn’t want to be there in Califórnia (this is stated in her journal while looking for Abby), but she is anyway. Why? Because she needs to put an end to her guilt (and untill this very part we’re led to believe that the last moment she had with Joel was on Seth’s situation). To sum it up, The exact words she uses in the boat scene is “I can’t let you leave”, and that doesn’t mean she wanted simply to kill Abby, she wants do fight her and if she (Ellie) ends up Dead, that would finally put an end to her survivor guilt that we can ser that is present since the last scene of the first game.
What a great video!! I do disagree with you about Ellie's final act in Santa Barbara. It is perfectly within her character, and perfectly believable that she'd be unable to let Abby go. We all have known people in real life who just can't let shit go. They feel they've been wronged and they want to scorch the person who wronged them--Ellie is that type of person because of Joel's influence. Think about how young and impressionable Ellie was when she met Joel. Think about how gruff Joel was, how he kept everything inside and wasn't big on sharing. Think about what Joel did to all those Fireflies in the SLC Hospital. These events were the catalyst in Ellie's formative years and made her the hard headed, not a sharing of feelings type. So given all this, to me anyway, it was 100% within Ellie's character to want blood-thirsty revenge right up until the end.
The game doesn't explicitly say it, but Ellie had been struggling with PTSD repeatedly since she and Dina returned to Jackson from Seattle. The line Ellie said about hunting taking longer than she expected is, reading between the lines, her acknowledgment she continues to struggle with her PTSD. Dina also has a line is acknowledging this: After Ellie's PTSD encounter in the barn, Dina sits next to her and says, "Haven't had any excitement in awhile."
What makes Part 2 so amazing for me is that Ellie, at the last second, realizes that drowning Abby is something that Joel never would have wanted. All Joel wanted for Ellie was to be safe, happy, and surrounded by a community who loves and cares for her. Joel never wanted her to become the cold, amoral, ruthless killer he had been. And, it took Ellie those three days in Seattle and her time in Santa Barbara to figure all this out.
Think back to Part 1: How many times does Ellie ask Joel (and Bill) for a gun? How times does Joel say no? Finally, after their encounter with the Hunters in Pittsburgh does Joel relent and give Ellie a gun more her size with the express instructions of, "...for emergency use only..." Joel did everything he could to keep Ellie "innocent" for as long as he could. He didn't want this world taint her like it had him and practically everyone else.
Gawd dude, *I ABSOLUTELY LOVE YOUR VIDEOS ON THE LAST OF US 2.*
I think the point of Ellie not killing Abby WAS because of her internalised pain and grief and realising she was no different from Abby, and to break the cycle of violence and revenge that had blighted and disfigured both their lives. I don't agree with it or the way it was done, but there is A LOT of subtle storytelling and they don't give you everything, you need to interpret it by yourself, by paying attention to the story, dialogue, and characters actions, to come to your own conclusions. This is evident because everyone seems to have a different interpretation of the same story
When Ellie returned back to the homestead, only to find the house empty aside from all her stuff... Her missing fingers, her missing family...
Yeah i almost cried at the end of TLoU2. This game doesn't deserve the hate it gets. Sure, I have a bit of a problem with how the interactive POV of both Ellie and Abby is handled, but this game is truly good.
Yo homie! I'm loving these videos. Keep up the amazing work.
Amazing video! Been binge watching your contents. Keep it up
Thanks, Grimm!
I feel like Ellie's final actions were spurred by internalized guilt for letting Abby go. Its unfortunate that Tommy had to come along and rile it up. As for her feelings toward killing Nora and Mel...well she probably dealt with that easier because people were constantly telling her things like 'they got what they deserved'. It was a masterpiece. The story they told was so incredibly human, but it's that side of humanity no one wants to acknowledge.
These are the tuffest 3 days of all time. forever known as 3 days in Seattle.
I feel like Ellie killing David in part one in pure rage may have played a big part in why she doesn't have as much trauma from her actions in Seattle. Plus I think Neil probably wanted to keep it safe by diving into what the majority of fans were still enraged at. I was blinded by my hatred towards Abby my first playthrough that I didn't start to appreciate her struggle and path to redemption until my second playthrough on. And sadly way too many fans never even got that far. I let go of my hatred for Abby similarly to Ellie and started to love both the game and Abby as a character.
Before I watched this, I was prepared to give this game an 8/10 but after watching this, I can say it’s a full on 10/10.
I felt the exact same way about the final fight after my first play through, but after the second in some ways I support it. Ellie knows she needs some kind of closure from Abby, but she simply doesn’t have the emotional intelligence to realise the closure has to be non-violent and restorative. She’s traumatised herself, but she still lays it all on Abby’s back and while I as the player wanted them to, putting it very basically, apologise to each other...I’m not Ellie and Ellie clearly shows she doesn’t have that internal awareness. So all she can do is lash out right until the last second and even then the best she can come up with is to just tell Abby to leave. It’s unsatisfying for the player, but on reflection, not unrealistic and leaves some really ripe development and character interactions for the (hopefully) third and final game. So I’ve gone from my initial view of ‘almost a masterpiece’ to a masterpiece.
Nice. It actually summed up how I felt. I couldn't put my finger on it. Thanks
At 8:00 her entries about brutal murder and death are omitted, a lot of it by marking it away with a pen. I think she is trying to block out her past and the previous diary entires not being present here now I think is a clue to say Dina probably convinced Ellie to bury and burn anything related to 'the incident and thereafter' and move on fresh and safe....but Ellie can't forgive, nor forget nor even function because she can't let go yet, this is a character flaw i think to show Ellie being stubborn and headstrong still and not wanting to accept and own up to the fact she murdered a lot of people (some could be innocent) for someone she loves but is a murderer himself and thus shows the dark violent world of TLOU.
I wonder if part 3 will have Ellie wrestling with everything she has done. I know Joel didn't really seem to wrestle with it until he settled down in Jackson years later. I hope its a thing where she needed to deal with Joel's death first and now can deal with her own actions, I hope so anyway.
If they can do it I'd love to play a third one and maybe giving ellie what she truly desires is having her immunity mean something
I think that a lot of people give the last of us 2 a bad time because of what they did to the characters. I don’t think it’s actually a bad game I think it’s really thoughtful and has a lot of hidden meaning and messages. I hate what happened to Ellie but that’s just because I love the characters and the game so much. The only issue for me was the Abby gameplay
It is indicated that Dina doesn’t leave her. When Ellie reaches her old house she actually has the bracelet that Dina gave her before on. We were too occupied with the missing fingers to notice that. It’s likely that they reunited in Jackson.
How does her wearing a bracelet that Dina gave her years prior an indication that she didn't leave?
Dina did leave her. The house was empty. She told Ellie that she wasn't going to go through another journey of revenge again, and Ellie made her choice. It's likely they did reunite at Jackson, but Dina has probably already moved on. Dina gave Ellie an ultimatum - she wasn't going to live in fear of not knowing whether she was dead or alive. Dina absolutely did leave her and I wouldn't be mad or surprised if in a possible sequel/DLC that Dina and Jesse's family left Jackson to pursue life elsewhere.
I wonder if the symbol for the first game was a firefly and the second a moth, what would the symbol for the third be?
God I really love this video and your channel, Wolf of Thorns. You get this game so fucking well but you also aren't afraid to criticize it. I'm working on scripts for my own RUclips videos, and I'm looking to your stuff for inspiration. Stay safe my man, and have an excellent day.
I think that if they could have pushed the envelope further as to see or hear of Abby getting physically, mentally and sexually abused by her captors, the Rattlers, near the end, I think it could have shifted the hate for Abby , that so many people seem to have towards her, to perhaps the realisation that she is not as Evil as they believe her to be.
It kind of bothered me the scenes were she finally had hope for her future and that of Lev, after contacting the fireflies, but all of that hope was snatched from her on her capture.
Yes the game is long, but I just would have hoped that the devs could have expanded on the Rattlers a little more to bring contrast and make the haters think " Ok, even she doesn't deserve that. "
Ultimately, Abby and Ellie are the same types of people and circumstances is what seperated them.
This video should have a lot more views. Clearly what RUclips looks for is hate for the game. Really satisfied i ran into this. Cheers from Chile !
Hey, Marcelo from Chile! Glad you enjoyed it, my friend. Many warm returns from Texas, good sir. 🤠
This game definitely makes a few missteps but compared to what it got right it's simply remarkable. They built 2 overlapping stories that reflect each other in so many ways and force us to think about character's perspectives which has made it worth replaying multiple times. The disliking for this game has always had more to do with peoples expectations and emotions than acctual narrative flaws.
You just put into words my feelings st the end of it. I was SO MAD at the game for making us do it again, so frustrated with Ellie for going after Abby even though she let her and her friends live TWICE, and I was so pissed at Ellie and Tommy for being dumbasses in an uncharacteristically hateful way after a freaking YEAR of pain and suffering that they both experienced and caused. UGH. I think there is a certain satisfaction in the way Ellie ended up saving Abby, and the game ending in such an almost perfect way would have been weird, but the last fight was just too fucked up, man. I absolutely loved the entire experience though, and I'm still absorbed by it a whole 6 months later. It killed my spirit a bit, made me scream at my computer and cry a lot, but boy, was it worth it.
I agree! Sony Playstation's The Last of Us Part II is almost a masterpiece. HBO's The Last of Us has the potential to make Part II's story a masterpiece. HBO can expand and fill in some of the story gaps especially during the Farm House and Santa Barbara parts.
You don’t like that Ellie isn’t concerned with the actions that she’s taken throughout her three days in Seattle . However, had that been the case she wouldn’t have gone after Abby in the first place.
You hit the nail on the head.i cried with sobs when i finished.could not touch another game for a while.it left me soo depleated
It always bugs me when people compare TLOU 2’s ending with red dead redemption 2’s ending. Saying that “what if John didn’t kill Micah!” Despite both games having the same message about revenge. Arthur literally told John not to look back, and his inability to move on is what ultimately killed him in the end.
The Last Of Us three: search for prosthetic fingers
Really enjoying your channel. And my gods I'd love to play your idea for TLOU3.
Thank you, R T! Glad you're here, my dude 🤠
yeha thats correct abby actually felt mercy for ellie as she finished joel faster than she intended.
So, it wasn't ok for Ellie to go after Abby but it was ok for Abby to go after Joel? It seems like everyone who judges Ellie for trying to kill Abby and Joel for killing Abby's dad, think that it was a justified thing for Abby to do when she killed Joel. AND, everyone who has a kid knows that a parent would even kill to save their child. Especially in an apocalyptic world. Joel did the right thing saving Ellie. I do think he should've been honest with her from the beginning but since he wasn't... well, that's life. Everyone talking about the circle of revenge, why did it have to be Ellie who stopped it? Why not Abby? Why was it ok for her to get her revenge?
It wasn’t ok, that’s literally the point of the game
You put a lot of effort into this video, and it shows. As someone who still is very upset with the narrative, you still haven't swayed me, but you did a really damn good job keeping composure and not being an absolute ass about it. Either people hate the game, or they love the game so much they feel the need to call out anyone that critiques it in the slightest bit, and you are dead in the middle. Joel needed to die, he needed to pay for his actions, but Neil and the team lying about Joel playing such a large part in the game and willingly dividing the fanbase then proceeding to whine about it absolutely silly to me. The flashbacks with Joel are arguably the best parts of the game and they're just thrown in randomly it feels and it really breaks up the feel of the game, and so does playing as both Abby and Ellie. The writing for both parts is good for the most mart, but it shoves the whole "revenge is bad" narrative so hard and doesn't feel natural. I want to love this game, but I just can't. The only genuine emotion I felt at all was during the flashbacks with Joel and the very end with Ellie trying to accept Joel. Context basically ruined the meaning of Future Days, I was excited to hear that Pearl Jam (and even Mark Lanegan) had music in the game, but context kinda takes away from the meaning. We got very little time to feel for the characters in this game, apart from when they almost force Abby's story on you and say "have fun". I wasn't given much time to like Dinah, I wasn't given much time to start liking Joel again or Ellie, and there was nothing likable about Ellie really at all in this game. I found myself not really liking any of the characters at all. Jesse was a cool character, but we barely had any time with him at all. And then he dies, and he's never mentioned again. And they pull the animal card like twice because you meet that one dog at the hospital or wherever it was and you potentially kill it (unless you full stealth it) and then they full on make you kill a dog later even though they said "You won't have to kill dogs if you're careful." The biggest issue people have with the game is more with Neil and the constant lying. And it wasn’t even Avengers level of lying, it was straight up “look Joel is in the game! He plays a big part in the story,” and when Jesse said, “You think I’d let you do this on your own?” I was furious. Game developers lie, I get that, it’s probably in the job description, but the level of it in this instance just really makes it all fall through and feel bad. I won’t say the story is as bad as people have said it is, because the stuff with Lev and Abby is actually really well written, but I feel like it’s more poorly placed than anything. I feel like there should have been another game before this one or something, I’m not entirely sure how I would have done it.
I honestly just needed one/two more flashbacks with Joel, Jesse's death to mean something (or at least get referenced on the farm) and for Abby to die and it would've all worked for me.
I loved Abby and admired the switch but she needed to die to sell the impact of it all for me.
Or for Ellie and Abby to acknowledge what they lost together.
Yeah, I was hoping that Ellie seeing Abby tied up at the beach would have them finally understanding each other. Got very close until Ellie challenged Abby AGAIN 🤦♀️
Minor nitpick: Ian Alexander's name is pronounced "EE-in", not "EYE-an".
Lots of people pronounce it either way tbh.
@@tutumazibuko2510 It’s how Alexander pronounces it though
Now that I think about it Ellie never said anything about killing Nora or the pregent 🚺. Which 2 her it's justified and righteous which makes Ellie a hypocrite in her part so I understand that flaw that sld be mentioned. But I thought the game is great the message of that game is very powerful 2 me.
People hated playing as abby which i understand why but its dumb they say the game ass because they played as a character they hated
Great video
Abby is the best! Thank you for your amazing analyses and incredible videos!
Ok y no one would answer the question would they go though with it? Like if u was Abby dad and it was Abby on the table ya only daughter would u continue to do the procedure?
My problem was the fact that they kills off joel in an unrealistic way according to his character I think Abby could've been a good character, but her, and her squad was written horribly, and the story was chronologically fucked, and it would be better if the story was longer, and made more sense if they made us care about Abby, and not told us who she was after untill like half way inti the story when we as Abby have to ambush, and kill Joel, they leave Ellie alive as to not be like Joel is what Abby said in the original game, but now we start alternating between their stories, and Abby's story is about leaving, and becoming more frantic, as she knows Ellie I after her, and her squad, an in the end a cutscene plays with Ellie chasing Abby, and fighting each other, amd the player has to make the hard decision of choose Ellie to kill Abby the little girl we watched grow through last of us 1, or make Ellie kill Abby the little girl we watched grow up, and came to care about in last of us 2.
The plot is revenge the story is about forgiveness and Ellie has already been to Jackson she is wearing Dina's bracelet when she goes to the farm to forgive and say goodbye to Joel. She made amends and asked for forgiveness in my opinion.
Dina gave Ellie the bracelet years prior. It doesn't mean anything. Ellie is seen wearing it consistently throughout the entire game.
@@dangdang4334 Or she just wasn't wearing it.
Dina gave Ellie the bracelet, it belongs to her. She departed her second journey of revenge hell-bent on finding and killing Abby. After finding her and letting her go, she only wanted to return to Jackson to her family. She was thinking of Dina and JJ a lot, so that's probably why she only began wearing it after leaving California. It was intended as a symbol of Dina and Ellie's relationship - "take this token of me, it will bring you luck. Return alive" so it was always in Ellie's possession. Therefore it wouldn't make sense for her to go back to the homestead wearing the bracelet after having previously seen Dina and JJ.
The entire purpose of the homestead end cutscene is to show us that Ellie sacrificed her family in order to get revenge. The big overarching theme of the second game is loss, and in the end Ellie lost not only Joel, but Dina and JJ (and arguably even Tommy since she couldn't go through with killing Abby).
Wrong. The story was never about revenge - it was only about loss. Ellie thought that she wanted revenge for Joel, but she was wrong.
Abby's story was about revenge and forgiveness. That's why she spared Ellie, Dina and Tommy's life after the encounter in Seattle. This is also why Abby helps Lev and Yara, sworn enemies.
Ellie lost Joel, then she lost Tommy (not being able to finish Abby off), and then Dina and JJ. She didn't get revenge - she could have, but in the spur of the moment she didn't want it. Ellie's story is only about loss.
Great video man. I agree tlou2 is great game but sadly this unnatural choice when ellie decide to not kill abby.
You should narrate movie trailers or do a podcast, you have the voice and charisma.
Thank you, Luana. Doing some voicework and motion capture is part of the dream.
Most people who review bombed the game haven't played it.
I haven't played it myself but I know the story is good.
I love ur videos man ❤
I'm fine with the story and applaud naughty dog for even attempting to tell such a story. I just didn't like the storytelling style, the structure, the flashbacks.
Some nicer pacing would definitely do wonders...
@@huskytzu7709 I agree. I also feel that they rely too much on the flashbacks. It works great for DLC like Left Behind because it's just a slice of the game, which was brilliant by the way, but it just didn't work well here because it messed up the pacing. Some of the flashbacks would have worked better going in order of time. I would have liked the game to start with all of the young Ellie sections. That way it feels like we picked up right where we left off from part I and we can grow up along with her. It could have been a prologue. Then the game proper could have started with the incident with Abby and Joel. It doesn't fix everything, but it would have been a better start for the game.
Don't say it too loud, The Stans of Us 2 are going to come for you to tell you how you are uncultured and dumb if you think this game was anything less than perfection. ESPECIALLY the narrative.
But yeah, I completely agree, the narrative pacing could have been done way better. In fact, that might have made it so that I didn't drop the game at one point to never play or finish it, dissapointed. (Not the part where Joel dies, before the Stans come a commenting.) And had some friends convince my I should finish it because I'd feel different. So for the first time ever with entertainment media of any kind (Music, Books, Movies, Games, Series) I forced myself to continue. I am somewhat glad I did, yet it did not change my mind all that much. I still believe that with structuring and pacing this game could have and should have been able to keep me engaged all the way through.
So Jesse finds out that Dina is pregnant right? He is the father of the kid. Him and Ellie mention briefly that they should turn and take her back so she could be well taken care of and save the child.
But you know what? Forget it. Let’s just continue and go find Abby and Tommy. Live this girl alone here is this couch to die or miscarriage.
Makes no sense. Ellie could continue on her path of revenge. But Jesse? No way.
Why they portrayed him as a great good sweet guy? Don’t do that. If they gonna let Dina on that couch make Jesse a womanizer, an irresponsible guy that doesn’t care and only wants to fuck other women, doesn’t like kids, is running away from responsibility... etc.
There are other ways to do this
The best way to describe TLOU 2 is retconned contrivances. And Abby is one of the most shallow characters ever written. Her entire character is "my daddy dead" and "high up scary."
Nice quality! I am making my own long ass documentary on this game. You should check it out!
I love the game
are Elli and Abby the same age, i felt like Abby was a little older, and Elli acted like a teenager so hyper-focused on her own self reality, unable to reflect on the harm she imposed on others by her own selfish action, including being unable to control her own feeling of wanting to go hunt down Abby in order to stay with Dina and raise the child, for Elli everything was about Elli, acting like a teenager.. self-reflection is kinda thing most people learn and get better at with age, which is why i thought Abby was a little older, becoming better at stoping to reflect at personal actions and self-accountability overtime and experience.... and also maybe at the end of the day Elli has become due to surviving so much violence and having killed so so many people, she has become a little bit of a sociopath.. so hyper-focused on her own reality and survival, blinded to feeling empathy and compassion for others other then on a surface level.. for me by the end i was definitely on Abby side, i even let her kill Elli quite a few times in the final battle before the game forced me to play it through on how it was going to end..
Abby was definitely a few years older
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I'm 48...played part 1 like 12 times (and counting) because the storyline is emotionally satisfying with gripping gameplay. Part 2 is too unrealistic, repetitive and has a potential to give a softy like myself ptsd. Fok dit!...once is enough for me! Therefore part 1 gives you hope in humanity where part 2 just shatters it.
Unrealistic and repetitive.. what? Lol.
Unrealistic storyline rather...Effects and gameplay are awesome!...
It is nice to see someone talk about the positivity in this game. I still think that there was so much room for improvement. The writing seemed very off at some points. And I’d love to know who thought “bigot sandwiches” was a good idea lol. But the main concept of the story was very different and very interesting. I just wish that it could’ve been better and way less controversial
When the game first released I absolutely hated it,Didn’t like the story at all,But after some time I started feeling less emotion and for me the story is now “Okay”
And before anything I’m not saying this cause of Joel dying,The way he died is a reason why I didn’t like the story that much though
I just don’t like these supernatural coincidences in stories,The fact that Tommy and Joel were exactly where Abby was at the exact flipping second annoys me,and what’s worse is that that building didn’t have any infected inside,so why tf did they even enter lol
Anyway,Not gonna talk about How Joel and Tommy are “Dumb” for saying their name,It’s a valid point but whatever
I also didn’t like the pacing of the events that much,I HATED that we didn’t play as Tommy tbh,Really wanted to see his perspective just like Abby
I hated what they did to my boy Jesse
Killed him and forgot him right away
And the ending,I won’t say it’s bad,Not the right word,But it’s science fiction lmao
Let’s be honest,NO ONE,absolutely no one would forgive Somebody who killed their father (Pretty much) we as humans don’t have that “Forgive” option,if someone bullies you you pretty much wanted to beat his ass,Let alone they kill someone who was a father to you
Unless you are a Monk or something,you won’t forgive,ESPECIALLY In a world like Tlou where everyone has a heart of stone,If they wanted to have a game around forgiveness,it should have been Abby forgiving Joel especially after saving her fucking life,And for Ellie you didn’t leave everything just for nothing,You came here to kill Abby,you leave while Killing Abby,That forgiveness bs doesn’t make sense to me tbh
@@Abbas-tk5gi Nah man,If the story was about Abby forgiving Joel things could have worked out
I already made a scenario of how Abby would have had to blend in with the Jackson community to find Joel and long story short,She has to help Joel and Joel has to help her and She bonds with the people of Jackson and at the end of the game she has the choice of killing Joel or forgiving him.
They could have atleast killed Joel at the end of part 2
And part 3 could have been what we got for part 2
@@Abbas-tk5gi I do agree with you
But if Ellie let Abby go after
Killing Joel (Whether he deserved it or not)
Killed Jesse (WHO LITERALLY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ALL OF THIS,but came to protect his friends)
Injuring Tommy for life and making him lose his wife
She left Dina for this and lost herself and her loved ones in the process
The last thing That was left of Joel (Playing Guitar)
Pretty sure Abby could have forgiven Joel
@@Abbas-tk5gi Yeah,She kills all the somewhat innocent ones but let’s the killer live,I find this annoying tbh
ESPECIALLY After Killing Jesse who had nothing to do with all of this
His only mistake was being a good friend and not wanting his close friends dying and Injuring Tommy severely
I really am still annoyed with that decision,Shouldn’t have made that last part at all
Cause when Ellie had Abby in her arms
It wasn’t only about Joel
It was about Ellie who lost everything for that moment
It was about Tommy who lost his Wife,Brother and Eye (Dunno if he can recover from his leg)
It was about Jesse who was 100% innocent but got killed without seeing his child
It was about JJ who never got to see his dad
It was about Dina whom she left alone FOR THIS MOMENT
And of course it was about Joel (And honestly Joel wasn’t on the wrong more on that in the next comment)
@@Abbas-tk5gi In part 1 and 2,There are multiple tapes that Indicate that a Cure is almost non possible,And One of them says that “Ellie is not like the past cases” something like that i don’t remember
PLUS The fireflies aren’t sun shines and rainbows,Having a vaccine would pretty much guarantee them ruling over this planet,They would use it to gain Power and Supremacy and you can’t deny it
No faction in Tlou does anything unless if it benefits them and the fireflies included
IMO There’s no right and wrong in this situation,But for me Joel did the “Better” choice cause as I said a vaccine wasn’t guaranteed and even if it was it would doom humanity even more
Not to mention that the infected don’t seem to be a huge problem anymore
The main threat was and will always be humans
As Ellie says in “Through The Valley”
“Said he come to save the world from destruction and pain,But i said how can you save the world from Itself”
“The world” referring to humanity
I’ll talk with you about part 3 in the next comment lol
Ik it’s long but I don’t have good non toxic debates a lot,so I will take this chance lol
@@Abbas-tk5gi For Tlou3 idk what they should do tbh,If you ask me i would DEFINITELY Choose a prequel
It will benefit both sides
Naughty dog should play the safe card cause everyone would love a Joel-Tommy adventure and at the same time move forward from the backlash
We saw how well Rdr2 was so prequel can be pretty damn awesome,Pretty sure naughty dog can pull it off
And as I said the fans will pretty much calm down about everything
Story wise it gives nd a chance to expand the Tlou world
AND WE PLAY AS TOMMY CAUSE I WAS CRYING FOR A DLC TO SEE HIS 3 DAYS BUT NOTHING CAME OUT ;(
I can forgive the last of us part 2 for everything EXCEPT What they did to Jesse and Tommy tbh
I enjoyed the game. Nothing mind blowing from game play, same as the first one. I enjoyed the story too, I don't care that they pandered to woke-ness, it is what is it. It was a BEAUTIFUL game, However, if they wanted me to feel for Abbey, they failed. While playing as Ellie, all the notes around describing how the WLF executing families and people for not falling in line, killing of children too. They had death squads. Abbey was a big part of that, Abbey started the whole revenge thing. Saving one trans kid does not a hero make. She sacrificed her friends for own revenge. Maybe we could have played a Abbey first. In the guise as a new character, That would have been a surprise, then play as her to get to know her and maybe like and feel for her, then drop the Joel and Ellie bomb half way. The fight with Joel's brother would have been less predictable. Then play the rest as Ellie. That might have created real tension between the two characters in our minds. In my play through as Abbey every once in a while the thought "she's still a ****" kept popping in. I did enjoy the game though, masterpiece? If I can think of a major improvement then no, not in my mind. Sorry for rant!