Jeffrey is in many ways the ideal caller. He shows up (as we all do) with his own suite of biases, intuitions, etc, and yet manages not only to acknowledge them honestly, but also to engage each challenge non-defensively. One has to admire that kind of intellectual humility.
Indeed. Both combos have serious ability. This week got a bit more sciencey than biblibooky, so a ‘Forrest Q’ lineup was far more suited to meet “theist science” head on with specific talking points and demonstrable examples.
Well said, erica. When it comes to gender-based rights and/or acceptance (whether it be related to LGBTQ, abortion, etc.), these two certainly make one of the most intellectually formidable teams imaginable.
I am not Trans. I don’t care that you are or not. But, I am happy that you have found joy in being You. That is wonderful! By proxy, You are wonderful. Just my opinion. Spread happy thoughts
I agree. Forrest and Shannon are a super good group. Between them they get the point across so well, in a really kind way. No offense Matt. I love yall!!!
I deeply resonated with Shannon’s response about having to listen and then debate her basic rights, and always having to do so with a man. She was articulate, passionate, and rightfully angry. She definitely tapped into the visceral feeling that many people in her position feel on a daily basis. Thank you! I also agree with many commenters that the Shannon/Forrest host combo is a fantastic one ❤️
I’ve come late to this party, but I needed to say something after listening to the finale. Because we live in a patriarchal society, those men arguing against people who can get pregnant having bodily autonomy, have absolutely no idea how privileged they currently are. (And how wrong they are.) It’s as if they’re unable to process the impact of their words to the person right in front of them. They’re mouthing words/ideas someone else said without doing their own research. Somehow they’re equating women/people who can get pregnant, and keeping/gaining the right to bodily autonomy as a loss of their own rights. Basically it comes down to ego. It’s a giant flaw in our current society, and makes Americans very backwards in first world countries across the globe. What you said about resonating with Shannon’s response is exactly how I felt. It went from having a debate with someone to experiencing fight or flight. I think our country is at a crossroads in history. The 2024 election results will determine the course of the next few decades. We need to spread the word to anyone who will listen, to vote for democracy. (Or anti-fascism.) ✌🏼
@@Andrea.1tree is there a reason you cant simply say "pregnant women"? contrary to what the current narrative is, you dont have to walk on eggshells to avoid offending someone in the lbgtq community. there is no reason to use "people who can get pregnant" or "women/people who can get pregnant"; and yes, i have a problem with shannon doing the same shit. she first said "women who are pregnant", and then switched to "people with a uterus"......it was unnecessary; her first phrase was correct, but even if she needed to clarify, she could have said "females" instead of what she said.
@@1369StilesI'd think that "people who can get pregnant" would be the term to use since there are trans men who can get pregnant and there are cisgender women who can't.
@@septixskeptix1107 FEMALE!!!!!!! wtf.......FEMALES who can get pregnant. FEMALES who have a uterus (since not every female has a uterus) we already have terms for this shit....thats the point. there literally is no scenario or discussion that you can make up that would need to use the phrasing that you just did either sex and gender are separate, or they are not. by not using the labels that the left and lbgtq community have been bitching and moaning for the right wing bigots to use properly, you are doing exactly what they do. you might as well start asking the same stupid ass question they do......."what is a woman?"
💯 It's about time an eloquent woman such as Shannon, says, with that hurt & real passion, that the rest of us feel too, having these conversations etc.. AND that passion IS taken to be completely reasonable & logical.. NOT condescendingly made out to be overly "emotional" or "selfish" etc.. When it's cos, all the freaking time, we are having to actually "prove" that we should have the same autonomous body rights as the other 50% of the population have, that makes us passionate.. 🤔 For anyone else. How would you feel if ? YOU were on the very committee that is, black or white, deciding if YOU yourself should be classed as a human or just a piece of property ? Or be executed or not ? 🤔 But, you are only allowed to speak & stand up for yourself, as long as you didn't remind everyone else, with your voice/ fear/ emotions, that THEY are holding YOUR OWN actual physical life on the line.. ( So, of course it means more to you than any of them , cos their conclusions pretty much only affect YOU , not them. So how would they understand/ feel the real-life consequences as much ? ) 😁☮️🌏
I LOVE Forrest's gigantic smile the entire time Shannon was going off about what she has a right to do with her body and the fact that he never interrupted her and let her speak her peace and her truth. Forrest is the epitome of what men should look up to being.
Forrest is the absolute best at explaining things to people who do not share his view. He’s very patient and still firm with folks. He’s good at polite yet brutal criticism.
John was really showing the ole Christian spirit and unconditional love there. He is as perfect a Christian as I have ever seen in my 74 years on earth. I hope all the Christians watching this are proud of their spokesperson.
I like the way he wants to keep the caller on the phone until his point is fully articulated, to make sure he's understood, even when the caller is stubbornly wrong. Very teacher-like of him! He looks for teaching moments.
@@EmpressLizard81 Absolutely. He is far more patient than a number of other hosts, and I think even for just that reason alone, he's among the best. He's a fantastic, exuberant communicator.
Yet atheism remains INFAMOUS the world over for having ZERO ANSWERS. No atheist has a RATIONAL, step-by-step atheist explanation for reality. That's because there isn't one.
And an even better RUclips channel just search Forrest Valcai. His "reacteria" series where reviews anti-evolution propaganda videos is especially entertaining
Forest is the kind of person I would have loved to have as a teacher in high school. Makes it so much easier to learn when the person teaching you is articulate and passionate
@@neverendingparty1534 atheism has no content. It is a position on a single proposition. Why is this hard for you? But word salad can be funny and sad at the same time. So thanks for that, I guess.
Jeffery is remarkable in that he was able to step back and re-evaluate gender vs genitalia and I really appreciate him. I think this was such a great conversation.
Man, hats off to Jeffrey. Even if he retains his faith, the fact that he is so calm and open to having his mind changed and admit his previous ignorance speaks volumes about his character. I think I'd genuinely enjoy having a conversation about faith and rationality with him, and that's something I can't say about most theists. Good guy, that Jeffrey.
I wish more people were like that, and open to admitting when they’re wrong. Even when we have a stance that we disagree on and they hold their ground, they’re still able to be respectful and think about the other person’s point of view.
Was about to say the same. Jeffrey seems like a very likeable guy. it's ok to have different views. It's ok to still hold the same view after a discussion but at least hear each other out and be open to POTENTIALLY change your mind.
fuck yeah, shannon. When she finished her monologue between 1:18:53 and 1:21:51 i literally punched the air and yelled "FUCK YEAH!" at the top of my lungs. My neighbors probably think i'm a sports fan, but whatever, i adore this fucking woman. she's a rock star.
The call about the abortion was just so painful. I was thinking how can Shannon stay calm listening to yet another man talking about the same subject that they never would to have to go thru. Much love and respect for you both. Cheers Shannon.
@@Mayhamsdead Because he'll NEVER have to have one. Because it's not HIS body. Because if I don't have the right to dictate what medical decisions he can make regarding his body, then he doesn't have the right to do that to me. That's called equality, pal. If he has the right to medical privacy and bodily autonomy, then so do I. He can have an opinion all he wants on abortion, but that doesn't mean he has the right to force those opinions onto the the sex that actually has to carry the pregnancy and force her to abide by it through laws.
@@Mayhamsdead why is it an argument from emotion? I simply pointed out why his opinion should not supersede that of an actual woman. A woman who would actually have to give birth. Men can have an opinion but they should not have a say in what we do with our bodies.
@@Mayhamsdead and arguing that abortion is murder isnt? my guy everything we know about human cogtition points to the idea that we are nothing more than our the brain activity of our brains current state and in a way the YOU from literally one second ago is totally dead and the CURRENT YOU has replaced them. like flat out if you take a chunk out of a person brain like what happened with phinneas gage, you will see their ENTIRE personally change in drastic ways. basically what that means is that since the nervous system doesnt even begin to start to develop UNTIL 6 WEEKS and doesnt even finish the portion done during the pregnancy until fucking 21 TO 28 WEEKS.... basically never mind the fact that until than the fetus is entirely dependant on the womans nutrients and if the woman doesnt want it than it falls into the literal same category as parasites especially before that nervous system starts to develop. beyond all of that, if you think pregnancy isnt a issue or worry because GIVING BIRTH IS SO SAFE NOW A DAYS!!! than you srly dont understand human physiology or the current direction our evolution is going in because now adays we actually have MORE issues giving birth because womens hips are at best staying the same size and at worst getting smaller and human heads are getting even larger. basically unlike most animals in the animal kingdom, we dont get the luxary of just having em just drop out like it was nothing but instead have to have several hour long sessions of extreme pain and difficulty with often enough times AT LEAST srly health problems occuring for the woman after the fact if not flat out dying to it.
John from Canada's unhinged ranting was so obnoxiously idiotic that I was actually eager to get to Gohan's call. And predictably, Gohan's muddled attempt to provide a coherent argument for being anti-choice was nearly as excruciating. If you got stuck sitting between these two on a transatlantic flight, you might start to reconsider Noah's We're-All-Living-in-Hell theory.
@@marcosolo6491 Did well at what? He might haved sounded like he was doing well because he stayed so calm and refused to back down, but really he's so attached to his conclusion that he can't see the massive flaws in his arguement that are being highlighted. Forest summed it up when he pointed out Gohan's 'arbitrary line' that he's drawing, which is basically the issue with almost every anti choice arguement. They're all based on arbitrary conclusions and assumptions that butcher any nuance in these discussions.
@@marcosolo6491 gohans rebuttal was arbitrary. It was the line of "if there is potential harm from someone, you are justified in ending their life" He was just extremely ignorant of the fact that a fetus has the potential for harm. And once it was pointed out to him, he ignorantly denied it. Because he is ignorant. The analogies they used perfectly exposed the flaws in all his arguments, yet he didn't change his mind. Which is just pathetic
Gohan in the call: "I'm not trying to convince you, I'm trying to unconvince myself" Gohan in the comments: "haha roe v wades gonna be overturned anyway so there!"
Forrest explained gender/sex so fucking well. That was remarkable. I haven’t heard an explanation that good since my psychology courses in college. I wish more people could understand that simple bit of knowledge…
The modern concept of 'gender identity' was invented by john Money. It has no correlation to anything in reality and it is doing serious harm to impressionable people.
00:00 Intro 02:41 Anthony-VA | Solar Systems Are The Atoms Of God 14:23 Noah-CA | We Are Born And Are Currently Living In Hell 30:18 Jeffrey-PA | God Created Two Genders 43:07 John-(CA) | Gender And Sex Are The Same...Mental Vagina 2.0 49:40 Gohan-TX | Similarities Between Abortion Rights & Organ Donation 1:26:15 Tony-MA | Narcissism In Religion 1:30:36 Outro
You are amazing, Shannon. The 2nd last call. about abortion rights. I followed this along with you. Your lovely rant at the end is refreshing and is so relateable to women in every country. AND, you had the courage to say it out loud. I am sending this to everyone I know. - I live in Canada, and thankfully we have access to morning after pills and hospital visits. I do care about laws for women in the US. They are our friends, allies and influencers of our policies.
@@davepugh2519 Yeah for sure. I love him and his mastery at formal logic, but I think his patience is wearing thin these days, so I hope he takes a rest and recharges!
Wow, the conversation with Jeffery went a lot better than I expected. I wish more religious people were willing to have an open mind when talking about that. The hosts did a great job explaining in a thorough and easy to understand manner.
Jefferey mentioned being hung up on by Matt. Seems getting hung up on made an impact because his behavior was completely different from what it has been in the past. He seems more open to considering new information than he has been in the past. Not criticizing, that's a great thing.
Well done, Forrest and Shannon! To stay graceful when confronted with appalling stupidity is an art in which I failed many times, having a hot temper. Thank you for this wonderful example of how it's done.
"I win!" perfectly displays the problem with Jeffrey's mindset. He sees knowledge as a competition that needs to be "won" to validate his worldview. I enjoy defending my beliefs but not in the sense that I must be correct. If I can't defend a belief it means I learned something, and then I can stop being wrong. Having said that, what kind of chickenshit, sexually insecure person feels the need to tell other people who they are, scream his ignorance at reasonable people, and run from any further discourse. That is some kind aggressive cowardice.
He’s the majority unfortunately. So unbelievably narcissistic they think their personal, emotional opinion matters more that demonstrable facts. To the point where guys like the caller will say that LITERALLY EVERYTHING except things he feels emotionally validate him is a lie meant to make them “lose”.. When you ask THEM where they get their facts from, they either don’t acknowledge the question, or give you a random website, YT channel, or Reddit post that begins and ends with “everyone is lying but me”. I’m not exaggerating. I’ve sent parodies to guys like him who believe it BECAUSE there’s “not a way to prove it false and you can’t trust the government”.
@@Masterfrank_MCMLXX Yea he probably would because it’s acceptable nowadays. He’d have a flock to back him up, tell him how smart and great he is, and that anyone who disagrees is just out to hurt them personally.
These two made this probably the most interesting show I've ever watched here on the Athiest Experience. Please promise us you two will do this show together more often.
God is proved by what we observe: 1. You’re DYING - not evolving. ALL MATTER does nothing but dissipate (entropy) over time. DYING DNA is combined to form eggs/seeds and that DYING DNA continues to DIE; always heading steadily toward it’s end (heat death). 2. You’re not going to GAIN new anatomy, such as wings; you’re going to LOSE your 20/20 vision. 3. You’re not going to GAIN telekinesis; you’re going to LOSE all or part of your hearing. Summary: You’re going to LOSE your health and in the end, LOSE your life (heat death). All matter is contiguous & under the same laws. ALL MATTER LOSES INFORMATION & that’s why you never see a GAIN OF INFORMATION (e.g. big bang, abiogenesis, mistakes (mutations) gaining in complexity/new information, star formation, evolution). Atheism = delusion.
First caller: “Everything you said is true and I agree with it BUT I like my metaphor and I want God to be real.” Second caller: “life’s a horrific joke, but it will all be okay afterwards, because god-reasons” Fourth caller: “I WIN!” Yeah, buddy. You’re a legend in your own basement. Fifth caller: “violate people’s rights and make them give birth because God,” said the guy without a uterus, yet again. Gohan says abortion should be permitted where there’s potential for severe harm - but that’s literally every pregnancy. Many serious complications don’t arise until delivery or just afterwards, and if we’re to include psychological harm, cases of trauma from being forced to carry a rapist’s baby would surely have to qualify, as much as post-natal depression. And I have to wonder where this caller stands on making medical care, including mental health, accessible to all people for little or no cost. Dude was so desperate to demonise abortion that he could barely keep his analogies straight.
Being fair though, the Fifth caller said he was calling to try and get himself off from being Pro-Life. No way to know if he was being genuine in that, but if he was, good for him.
@@ItCameFromTheSkyBeLo not his first time around with the same arguments. If he's genuine, he's stuck and i don't know what exactly is going to get through to him.
1) I never mentioned god in my discussion 2) why does my sex matter? 3) vast majority of pregnancies do not bring high risk of severe harm. Most are deemed healthy for both kid and mom 4) I wasn’t trying to argue against abortion in the call I was trying to state there is no comparison between banning abortion and forced pregnancy
Matt’s abortion argument is my absolute favorite because it’s so hard to wiggle out of - ‘Should anyone be able to force someone to remain pregnant against their will?’ - and I absolutely love Shannon going off at the end of Gohan’s call, her real life example is heartbreaking and a perfect example of why men need to mind their own business when it comes to what women do with their bodies.
Shannon’s “rant” at the end of that call resonated with me so hard. Was damn near in tears, not kidding. I feel that frustration when I talk to some of my family about this. I had to show my husband this episode-he was cheering for Shannon too, and he’s also joined the Forrest Fan club! 😆
Shannon, thank you for your conversation with Gohan. Your tone was perfect. Anti choice laws are completely sexist. No medical procedure that only men can have is regulated like abortion. Beautiful job, both of you.
Gohan was embarrassing. He bent over backwards more and more to try to have his opinion fit the evidence and analogies, then, when his back finally broke, he cried sexism. Pathetic.
How can they be sexist? Both men and women can get pregnant? It’s very transphobic to say “I wish men could get pregnant so they would know how it feels”. Men can get pregnant too. Shannon lost her cool and slipped up.
@@gohanprolife8389”answer that without being sexist”? You laughably pathetic and dishonest child. Listen to the call again. You went from analogy to analogy, every time it no longer fit your limited knowledge or consideration of the topic. Your back finally broke when you accused Shannon of saying men can’t discuss the topic, despite you having a good 20 minutes doing just that and her not saying anything of the sort.
Thank-you Shannon for finally giving him the telling off that my brain was screaming. I almost had to turn off thr program if you hadn’t saved my sanity.
Shannon, you have no idea how much your "nervous breakdowns" mean to me to hear on air. Of course we know it's not a breakdown-it is intense PASSION. Lately, I've felt so alone in my passion for these subjects-with no friends or Allies. It's really taking its toll. Anybody who DOES bother to listen makes sure to quickly remind me that my silly woman brain and/or my wandering uterus is just making me hysterical (I'm only KINDA exaggerating) I'm sick of being told to shut up or hush to keep the peace or asked why I'm trying to be difficult & upset(?) Hearing you have this platform with that fire and passion just OUT THERE is just wonderful and I feel like I can breathe for the first time in quite awhile. Thank you so much, Shannon ❤️ Forrest, you're an incredible friend and ally to ALL. I've been subscribed to your channel for a little while now and your passion for teaching is so magnetic. I'm more than overjoyed to see you part of The Atheist Experience team. I don't think I've ever enjoyed a show as much as with you too as hosts! ❤️
_Lately, I've felt so alone in my passion for these subjects-with no friends or Allies._ You have allies online. I wouldn't say that the internet is a perfect haven of reason and respect - heh, heh - but it _does_ let us see that we're not alone, even when it might seem like that in our personal lives. Hang in there. There are lots of terrible places on the internet - and on RUclips - but we don't need to visit those places. The news is usually depressing enough, huh? So, when I hang out, I want to hang out with people who make me think that maybe there's some hope for human beings, after all - which means places like this. :)
Not really, he proved that my point of view is true. If there was a god, it must be the grand daddy of narcissism. No god would allow our reality and people call him all loving.
Also, and I don't think the hosts had time to address this, his whole point seems to hinge on the idea that you consider this world horrible or hellish, but I don't, I love this world and I think it's fragile and precious, does it have elements that are frightening and dangerous and painful? Yes, but it is also beautiful and we need to look after it, and it's this exact attitude of the religious that will hold us back. It leads to the conclusion that we don't need to do anything because this life doesn't matter.
In the Netherlands an 8 year old was abused and murdered this weekend. Noah thinks this is God's humor apparently....... his parents must find it sooo funny.... His name was Gino. And he isn't laughing in heaven.
Shannon is... A fucking force to be reckoned with. She's so blunt and has a sort of resolute sense of self and understanding of what she's saying. Its honestly kind of amazing to behild
Forest is an absolutely great addition. Shannon and Matt are my current favorites but I think I have to add for us to that list. No offense to the other hosts whatsoever they are all great but I would love to see those three in action together. That's ability to argue with so much knowledge on the Bible and his debate skills, mixed with Shannon's knowledge of the human brain and such, and now forests biology expertise, that is a trifecta of which we've never seen before on the show. Absolutely awesome additions
@@MrShigura I believe it. They don’t seem to have a life beyond the comments section. And what’s worse is they can’t even put real effort into that. It’s all copy/paste laziness.
I have never felt more affirmed and validated as a pregnant person with SPD (pubic bone has come apart too far) and I have been drastically physically limited and in so much pain. I've 'chosen' to continue with the pregnancy. It honestly means so much to have you guys acknowledge the dangers and effects whereas so many ppl treat pregnancy like it's 'no big deal'. THANK YOU!! ❤️❤️❤️
I, too, chose to continue a pregnancy that nearly killed me. My husband’s life was never in danger . Your husband’s pelvis is perfectly fine. THAT’S why it should always be a woman’s choice.
Just finished listening to the podcast. Gohan is SUCH a dishonest interlocutor. He presented his reasoning for his belief, then when presented with scenarios that DECIMATED his reasoning, he moved the goal posts. Then the penultimate--he claimed Shannon said he shouldn't have an opinion because of his sex/gender! She didn't say anything remotely to that effect, and lost her shit on him, rightfully so.
I appreciate that they had him turned around arguing FOR bodily autonomy in the middle of the conversation. I'm going to lose my leg cuz some kid is obliviously swinging a sword around, so I'm going to take him out. Yeah. Exactly. This fetus is obliviously going to wreck all my insides, and I am going to take it out.
@@gohanprolife8389 You constantly moved deeper and deeper into reasoning for being able to kill someone, but not in other scenarios. Saying (and this is reducing the argument, but is what you said) "You can shoot a child that has a sword for looking at you wrong, but you can't abort a fetus who is not even a thinking being yet." And then you moved to legality of someone being punished for negligence, how it is and how you think it should be, etc. That's the goal post shift. You reasoned for something already in place, but once you realized it doesn't agree with you in the way you want you moved to reason to change it. Learn to respect women, and their bodily autonomy, just like women have respected your autonomy for the entirety of human existence.
Hey Jon: please never stop calling in. You are a caricature of the fundamentalist, conservative mindset’s worst elements. Pathetic, hilarious, and incredibly damaging to your ideology. So good. 🤌
Gohan is so frustrating. I applaud you, Shannon, the amount of patience and restraint you showed, just wow. It's so obvious he never really, truly thought about his position and all the real life implications. As soon as you mentioned those, he derailed the conversation. Also, there are women in prison right now, in the US, because of a miscarriage. Courts should NOT make these decisions, since they are rarely comprised of doctors/biologists.
Gohan ANY surgery has risks. Literally. You wouldn't force a man to donate blood. Under any circumstance. And it's such a low risk it's not funny. But you think a pregnancy ISN'T high risk, then you're truly ignorant (which is unbelievably obvious)
@@bertfru3269 lol even though you're a troll, you didn't listen to the call. Even gohan agreed that if you think there's a significant threat, you're not responsible for homicide 😃 So we're all in agreement, gohan was wrong😘😘😘
If Shannon + Forrest were the weekly hosts for The Atheist Experience for the next 3-5 years I would have absolutely 0 complaints! Their chemistry with Forrest's background in biology + Shannon's background in psychology is absolutely infectious and provides a fantastic show to address any of the major questions or arguments a caller may have!
Was scrolling through various shows/clips and when I saw that Forrest and Shannon were in together I knew it would be good. And it was! I’m right, I win! End of conversation. Click!
Thanks Shannon and Forrest, you guys are inspirational. I swear to the gods that if this one show alone was shown in every church in the country and they had to dissect and analyse it there would be some serious rethinking and realisations. You two and the whole crew are awesome. Thank you from New Zealand.
I love Forrest. He's able to articulate his point while sounding so excited to just teach and hopefully give people more knowledge or the thirst for that knowledge.
Jeffery is a rare gem, we disagree but he's open to learning instead of mind closed like most callers. Good on ya mate! Hopefully one day he comes to realize he's wasting his time and thoughts on an imaginary fable story but if not he's still a good person.
It's so hilarious when these anti-abortion advocates are faced with the real world implication of making abortion illegal and they have to flounder around to still justify their stances. Gohan has done this for years. He wants to control other people's bodies, but doesn't want to say that's the case, so comes up with the most idiotic mental gymnastics to justify controlling other people's bodies.
This doesn't really concern me since I live in a country where my rights for my body are violated very very little. I've been really concerned about the situations of those people whose pregnancy is still ongoing but the fetus is dead. Are they not allowed to terminate the pregnancy to get the already dead fetus out? That situation can go on for weeks and can cause at its worse medical complications that can make getting pregnant again harder. Or those situations where the baby is big enough to survive outside the womb, and a medical emerdency occurs where ending the pregnancy is the only way to save the baby. Is aborting the pregnancy allowed then? (English is not my native language, sorry for the possible grammatical errors that I cannot even notice )
@@outoSUMI Depends on the state. Some states make no exceptions so the people jn those states just have to die I guess. The details show that these anti-abortion morons aren't pro-life.
@@outoSUMI in the USA? When roe v wade is terminated, there will be trigger laws in some states that will not allow abortion in those circumstances. Trigger laws are laws that have been passed but will only be triggered when roe v. Wade is overturned. For example, in Louisiana which has the most radical forced birth trigger law passed certain iud will not be covered since their trigger law says life begins at fertilization. Of course, in vitro fertilization will also be illegal. This change in law will result in the death of 100s of thousands of women.
@@mariev3821 This is really sad to hear. Especially the second situation that I mentioned, banning abortion at that point would force the pregnant person to lose their baby that would have lived if the pregnancy would be terminated.
another upvote for Forrest, however i came here to say how much i loved Jeffrey’s call. what an awesome, wholesome conversation where someone actually learned something and acknowledged/thanked the other for informing him. and the hosts respect for Jeffrey’s initial position.
Atheism comes to die on the internet as you have nothing to offer to the argument of do gods exist or not. Your lack of knowledge and evidence for gods not existing is essentially making atheism a null point. We theists just move on past you. Atheism = delusion. NOTHING atheists desperately believe (e.g. multiverse, big bang, abiogenesis, mistakes (mutations) gaining in complexity/new information, star formation, evolution) can be observed or even proved to be possible, because NONE OF IT EXISTS. Certainly, none of it repeats. Entropy doesn't allow ANY OF IT, as matter only goes in one CONSTANT, UNRELENTING direction (bad to worse) until it's END/heat death. GENESIS IS AN ABSOLUTE NECESSITY, because all these facts REQUIRE God to have provided the initial usable energy for this universe, because it's all being consumed. Try to learn. Christianity (God, Creation, The Bible) is BY FAR the best explanation for the facts and data we observe. For example, If the atheist is honest, they will agree that we observe that we’re dying - not evolving. We observe and know that we’re going to LOSE our 20/20 vision - not gain in vision. We know we’re going to LOSE our hearing - not gain in hearing ability. We know we’re going to LOSE our health - not gain in vitality. We know we’re going to LOSE our life and die - not live on. We also know that it’s been this way for humans for +/- 10,000 yrs. The same goes for all animals & plants.
Absolutely love every episode with Shannon, pairing her with Forrest is a special treat! I learn so much from both of them and really enjoy how their intelligence and humor meshes so well.
It's very telling that as soon as you told Gohan to justify his belief that he gets to decide what you do with your body it's all of a sudden time to get off the phone and you're being unreasonable and sexist for telling him he has to justify his bullshit. That's a great sign of an empty argument.
@@gohanprolife8389 what thing did you say? It seems like it was lost in the call and your fear of justifying what you want women to be forced into but maybe I'm wrong. To me it sounded like special pleading and ignoring what they said that points out the clear flaws in thinking here.
@@49perfectss bro I have like fifty chains to respond to hold your horses haha. Wait in line everyone gets a chance to talk to gohan! I was asking “why does my sex matter”. You couldn’t hear that because I was on hold and Shannon didn’t inform me or the audience. Dishonest
Gohan's argument falls under a false assumption that all killings are murder and all murders are wrong. Say the two magic words, "self-defense," and most folks arguing to save fetuses are eager, happy, or at least ok with killing in self-defense. The death penalty is another example of when it isn't murder to kill someone. However, we need more than only a poorly defined word, "murder," to make a case here. I'm sure most folks would cringe at the idea of some authority, like a government, forcing women to be breeding incubators and have children against their will. This is the kind of government overreach Americans envision when they talk about the second amendment. To defend ourselves from such tyranny, using guns to kill people would be viewed as acceptable, not wrongful murder. It is, after all, self-defense. What happens when we apply this same test to rapists? Anti-abortion laws that prevent women from having abortions in cases of rape allow rapists to act on the government's allowance to force women to become breeding incubators and have children. The counter-argument here is, of course, that rapists should be punished. Another way to look at that punishment is the cost of doing business. You can spread your seed as long as you're willing to spend some time in jail - maybe for as little as six months; or less if you're not caught. We can keep digging this rabbit hole deeper, but in the end, not all killings are murders and therefore are not all wrong. Life is preferable, but we can't escape the fact that all killings are not wrong. We could then justify an exception for rape. The problem now is the same problem addressed under Roe v. Wade. That ruling was never about abortion, it was about privacy. If a woman goes into a doctor's office to get an abortion and tells her doctor why she should be allowed to have an abortion, there is a clear doctor-patient privilege there. No one outside of those two people has any right to know what that conversation was about. Even if there was a law that said, "except for cases of rape, all abortions are illegal," there's be no way to enforce that law without violating patient-doctor confidentiality or waiting for someone to make a mistake.
What a delight!!! I LOVE these two hosts!! I admire Shannon's eloquency and precision so much! And Forrest is someone I deeply admire as a science communicator and as a science communication student myself. Much love from Latin America! Edit: typos, sorry.
Holy fk Gohan, that exchange after Shannon gave you a taste of her “emotions” was infuriating, huge kudos to Shannon for even letting you try to come back after that arrogant bullcrap. Then you rightfully got hung up after keeping that crap up as you attempt to play the victim. Cowardly and completely tone deaf after both had shown you amazing patience.
Gohan- You cant decide to abort a fetus that is inside of you because of rape. But I can decide to shoot a 5 year old toddler that has a sword regardless of his intent. WHAAAAT?? That call was terrifying.
I read this comment before actually getting to that part. I thought that was a fun hypothetical Forrest or Shannon brought up-"what if a 5 year old is going to kill you? Do you have a right to protect yourself from them?" kinda thing But Gohan just _offers up_ the phrase "maybe they're gonna cut off one of your limbs-I think you can shoot that five-year-old. "Nearly did a spit take when I heard that phrase out loud I'm a bit disappointed that they didn't latch onto his claim that pregnancies aren't always incredibly risky for a woman. That's a wild take that I think can only come from a conservative man who was not present when his kids were born.
I couldn't agree more! Right before finding your comment, I had made my own similar post: "If a 5-year-old is carelessly swinging a sword around totally oblivious to the danger he's imparting on those around him, it's completely justifiable to shoot that kid in the face until he's dead. BUT! Considering the fact that I am "pro-life," if a woman is impregnated by a rapist, her decision to abort the pregnancy should be treated the same as murder." How do people like Gohan not realize how dangerously flawed this kind of logic is? Does he seriously not understand that this kind of analogy makes him sound batshit crazy?
Gohan-Tx was a great call. As a man, who doesn’t really have strong feelings about the issue ( I live in the UK where I feel we have the law about right), I got some great insights into why I should really care more about the issue. The anti-abortionists really do not have a convincing argument IMO. But the enforced vasectomy thing sounds like a brilliant alternative for “pro-lifers”. I felt for Gohan at the end, but Shannon-Q was perfectly entitled to go off on one at the end. In the end I felt I learned something. Pro lifers or anti-body-autonomists are advocating for a logical minefield and a legal absurdity.
Close bud. Your allowed to your opinion no worries. If I refuse to have a vasectomy who do I directly kill? No one If I have an abortion, who do I directly kill? A human organism.
I recently came across these videos and Jeffrey was the first one who seemed willing to learn. So many people come on trying to explain or change you’re view but he was amazing! If you’re seeing this Jeffrey, we need more people like you!
Thank you Shannon for speaking for women. I absolutely hate how some men think that they can tell women what to do with their bodies, and don't give a shit about our lives.
@@bertfru3269 bruv, nobody cares what you have to say about enslaving women to produce babies. Nobody gets to use anybody's body without their consent. Nobody gets to continue to use anybody's body without their continuing consent.
According to Shannon, we can't know if the stranger talking to us is a man or a woman. So how do you know that it's men telling women what to do?😉 I personally believe that men have every right to discuss abortion since abortion impacts both male and female babies. I was once a fetus and I'm very happy I was not aborted.
It seems that Gohan is fully committed to disallowing disconnecting from the violinist until such a time that their life will not end due to disconnecting. And apparently only outwardly visible injury seems to matter when it comes to self defense.
It's so great hearing someone like that Jeffrey guy who called in. When presented with new information he admitted that he was not educated well enough on the subject instead of digging in his heels. Respect.
Gohan wants a consistent standard it sounds like, he just can't accept that the bodily autonomy/organ donation argument is the consistent standard already...
Jeffrey is in many ways the ideal caller. He shows up (as we all do) with his own suite of biases, intuitions, etc, and yet manages not only to acknowledge them honestly, but also to engage each challenge non-defensively. One has to admire that kind of intellectual humility.
I didn’t think there was a stronger combo than Matt-Shannon but Shannon-Forrest is amazing
Ye, this really works well :)
Y'know if Matt ever decides to move away from the show.... it's in good hands.
Indeed. Both combos have serious ability. This week got a bit more sciencey than biblibooky, so a ‘Forrest Q’ lineup was far more suited to meet “theist science” head on with specific talking points and demonstrable examples.
Shannonot and Forrenon
Agreed!
Shannon, Forest, I'm a trans woman and I want to say thank you from the bottom of my heart. This was my favorite episode.
I hope your journey is going well 10 months later, wishing you all the best 🤗 have a nice weekend
Erica, your life and experiences are valid and I'm proud to see you as the woman you are.
Well said, erica. When it comes to gender-based rights and/or acceptance (whether it be related to LGBTQ, abortion, etc.), these two certainly make one of the most intellectually formidable teams imaginable.
A year later we all hoping we'll for you erica
I am not Trans. I don’t care that you are or not. But, I am happy that you have found joy in being You.
That is wonderful!
By proxy, You are wonderful.
Just my opinion.
Spread happy thoughts
I really love Forest. He's able to articulate his point while sounding so excited just to teach and hopefully get people more knowledge.
Atheism is INFAMOUS the world over for having ZERO ANSWERS ;)
He is the science teacher I wish I had in high-school
@@allwinds3786 I thankfully had great science teachers, but I would have loved to have him as well
I agree. Forrest and Shannon are a super good group. Between them they get the point across so well, in a really kind way. No offense Matt. I love yall!!!
@@phoenixkingtheo I did too, it's just his enthusiasm for reality is infectious.
We definitely need more Forrest on the show - he's wonderful.
He's on all the time 😂
@@Джонатан-р8д - No, he's definitely not. He's not even on 10% of the time. 🙄
@@Джонатан-р8д Forrest has only joined as a co-host recently. I think this episode is only his 3rd or 4th appearance on the show
He has his own channel and regularly publishes some of the best content out there. Check it out.
Ahhh, the snowflakes got triggered by massive success. I can't help people are too poor to pay cash for a $40,000 car.
ENJOY THE JEALOUSY.
I deeply resonated with Shannon’s response about having to listen and then debate her basic rights, and always having to do so with a man. She was articulate, passionate, and rightfully angry. She definitely tapped into the visceral feeling that many people in her position feel on a daily basis. Thank you! I also agree with many commenters that the Shannon/Forrest host combo is a fantastic one ❤️
I’ve come late to this party, but I needed to say something after listening to the finale. Because we live in a patriarchal society, those men arguing against people who can get pregnant having bodily autonomy, have absolutely no idea how privileged they currently are. (And how wrong they are.) It’s as if they’re unable to process the impact of their words to the person right in front of them. They’re mouthing words/ideas someone else said without doing their own research. Somehow they’re equating women/people who can get pregnant, and keeping/gaining the right to bodily autonomy as a loss of their own rights. Basically it comes down to ego. It’s a giant flaw in our current society, and makes Americans very backwards in first world countries across the globe. What you said about resonating with Shannon’s response is exactly how I felt. It went from having a debate with someone to experiencing fight or flight. I think our country is at a crossroads in history. The 2024 election results will determine the course of the next few decades. We need to spread the word to anyone who will listen, to vote for democracy. (Or anti-fascism.) ✌🏼
@@Andrea.1tree is there a reason you cant simply say "pregnant women"? contrary to what the current narrative is, you dont have to walk on eggshells to avoid offending someone in the lbgtq community. there is no reason to use "people who can get pregnant" or "women/people who can get pregnant"; and yes, i have a problem with shannon doing the same shit. she first said "women who are pregnant", and then switched to "people with a uterus"......it was unnecessary; her first phrase was correct, but even if she needed to clarify, she could have said "females" instead of what she said.
@@1369StilesI'd think that "people who can get pregnant" would be the term to use since there are trans men who can get pregnant and there are cisgender women who can't.
@@septixskeptix1107 FEMALE!!!!!!! wtf.......FEMALES who can get pregnant. FEMALES who have a uterus (since not every female has a uterus)
we already have terms for this shit....thats the point.
there literally is no scenario or discussion that you can make up that would need to use the phrasing that you just did
either sex and gender are separate, or they are not. by not using the labels that the left and lbgtq community have been bitching and moaning for the right wing bigots to use properly, you are doing exactly what they do.
you might as well start asking the same stupid ass question they do......."what is a woman?"
💯 It's about time an eloquent woman such as Shannon, says, with that hurt & real passion, that the rest of us feel too, having these conversations etc..
AND that passion IS taken to be completely reasonable & logical..
NOT condescendingly made out to be overly "emotional" or "selfish" etc..
When it's cos, all the freaking time, we are having to actually "prove" that we should have the same autonomous body rights as the other 50% of the population have, that makes us passionate..
🤔 For anyone else.
How would you feel if ?
YOU were on the very committee that is, black or white, deciding if YOU yourself should be classed as a human or just a piece of property ?
Or be executed or not ?
🤔 But, you are only allowed to speak & stand up for yourself, as long as you didn't remind everyone else, with your voice/ fear/ emotions, that THEY are holding YOUR OWN actual physical life on the line..
( So, of course it means more to you than any of them , cos their conclusions pretty much only affect YOU , not them.
So how would they understand/ feel the real-life consequences as much ? )
😁☮️🌏
I LOVE Forrest's gigantic smile the entire time Shannon was going off about what she has a right to do with her body and the fact that he never interrupted her and let her speak her peace and her truth. Forrest is the epitome of what men should look up to being.
I suspect I'm taller than him, but I'd gladly look down on him... in admiration!
i agree, the fact that he didn't need to jump in or anything, good dude.
"Her peace and her truth", Isabella?
I'm sorry - Shannon has neither.
And Forrest is not what a man should be.
@@deniss2623 just curious what would you consider a "man"
@zoranite5120
Jesus Christ is the perfect man. That is why I aspire to be more like him.
What is your idea?
Sharon you absolute legend. I love hearing you “have emotions”
So so so nailed it!!!
Forrest is the absolute best at explaining things to people who do not share his view. He’s very patient and still firm with folks. He’s good at polite yet brutal criticism.
John was really showing the ole Christian spirit and unconditional love there. He is as perfect a Christian as I have ever seen in my 74 years on earth. I hope all the Christians watching this are proud of their spokesperson.
😂😂😂💯
Right? Truly an advocate for actual Christianism
Forrest is such a great host, his knowledge in his chosen field is incredible but he takes his time to explain without calling someone out. Bravo.
I like the way he wants to keep the caller on the phone until his point is fully articulated, to make sure he's understood, even when the caller is stubbornly wrong. Very teacher-like of him! He looks for teaching moments.
@@EmpressLizard81 he does and it seems to be taken as such. It seems to make the caller more willling to listen
@@EmpressLizard81 Absolutely. He is far more patient than a number of other hosts, and I think even for just that reason alone, he's among the best. He's a fantastic, exuberant communicator.
Totally! The conversation with Jeffrey was so good, but it could easily have turned out very differently.
We need many more folks just like Jeffery. what a genuinely likeable human being.
I'm so impressed with him.
I strongly disagree. What does likeable even mean to you?
agreed!!
@@terryjones573 He was polite and willing to admit he didnt understand the whole concept. Thats pretty admirable if you ask me.
Going from him to John was some serious whiplash.
Shannon and Forrest are an awesome team. Would love to see more of this pair!
They do perfectly compliment each other since one's educated in psychology while the other in biology. Anti-LGBTQIA+ bigots don't stand a chance!
Agree 💯!!
Forrest and anyone are a great pair
IT'S THE SHANNON/FORREST SHOW!
Q AND THE VALKAI...
I can officially say I'd be super saddened if Forrest didn't continue showing up occasionally. He's fantastic.
Yet atheism remains INFAMOUS the world over for having ZERO ANSWERS. No atheist has a RATIONAL, step-by-step atheist explanation for reality. That's because there isn't one.
I love how cheerful he is, he actually puts me in a good mood. I like Matt, but Matt puts me in the mood to see a good fight lol
He also has a great TikTok that you should follow
And an even better RUclips channel just search Forrest Valcai. His "reacteria" series where reviews anti-evolution propaganda videos is especially entertaining
It's definitely useful to have someone trained in biology on the show.
Shannon q thank you for articulating how it feels to discuss abortion with ppl that don’t have a uterus. Love you for that. Forrest you’re a true king
Forest is the kind of person I would have loved to have as a teacher in high school. Makes it so much easier to learn when the person teaching you is articulate and passionate
These two hosts are so entertaining together. Their faces and laughter make my day.
Maybe the fact that no atheist has a RATIONAL, step-by-step atheist explanation for reality will do the same.
@@neverendingparty1534 atheism has no content. It is a position on a single proposition. Why is this hard for you? But word salad can be funny and sad at the same time. So thanks for that, I guess.
Same! I'm only on the first call and their synchronized facial expression change at 3:59 has me laughing.
Been hoping I would get to see a team-up with these two! :)
Was not disappointed. :D
@@Therian13 I wasnt disappointed. They are god hating lost souls and they seem to be proud of it.
Jeffery is remarkable in that he was able to step back and re-evaluate gender vs genitalia and I really appreciate him. I think this was such a great conversation.
Man, hats off to Jeffrey. Even if he retains his faith, the fact that he is so calm and open to having his mind changed and admit his previous ignorance speaks volumes about his character. I think I'd genuinely enjoy having a conversation about faith and rationality with him, and that's something I can't say about most theists. Good guy, that Jeffrey.
I wish more people were like that, and open to admitting when they’re wrong. Even when we have a stance that we disagree on and they hold their ground, they’re still able to be respectful and think about the other person’s point of view.
100 percent. And then we move on to that next guy
@@matthewpopow6647 "I'm right, you're wrong, goodbye" _click_
If only all dbag callers were so succinct
Was about to say the same. Jeffrey seems like a very likeable guy. it's ok to have different views. It's ok to still hold the same view after a discussion but at least hear each other out and be open to POTENTIALLY change your mind.
fuck yeah, shannon. When she finished her monologue between 1:18:53 and 1:21:51 i literally punched the air and yelled "FUCK YEAH!" at the top of my lungs. My neighbors probably think i'm a sports fan, but whatever, i adore this fucking woman. she's a rock star.
The call about the abortion was just so painful. I was thinking how can Shannon stay calm listening to yet another man talking about the same subject that they never would to have to go thru. Much love and respect for you both. Cheers Shannon.
@@Mayhamsdead Because he'll NEVER have to have one. Because it's not HIS body. Because if I don't have the right to dictate what medical decisions he can make regarding his body, then he doesn't have the right to do that to me. That's called equality, pal. If he has the right to medical privacy and bodily autonomy, then so do I. He can have an opinion all he wants on abortion, but that doesn't mean he has the right to force those opinions onto the the sex that actually has to carry the pregnancy and force her to abide by it through laws.
@@Mayhamsdead why is it an argument from emotion? I simply pointed out why his opinion should not supersede that of an actual woman. A woman who would actually have to give birth. Men can have an opinion but they should not have a say in what we do with our bodies.
@@Mayhamsdead and arguing that abortion is murder isnt? my guy everything we know about human cogtition points to the idea that we are nothing more than our the brain activity of our brains current state and in a way the YOU from literally one second ago is totally dead and the CURRENT YOU has replaced them. like flat out if you take a chunk out of a person brain like what happened with phinneas gage, you will see their ENTIRE personally change in drastic ways. basically what that means is that since the nervous system doesnt even begin to start to develop UNTIL 6 WEEKS and doesnt even finish the portion done during the pregnancy until fucking 21 TO 28 WEEKS.... basically never mind the fact that until than the fetus is entirely dependant on the womans nutrients and if the woman doesnt want it than it falls into the literal same category as parasites especially before that nervous system starts to develop. beyond all of that, if you think pregnancy isnt a issue or worry because GIVING BIRTH IS SO SAFE NOW A DAYS!!! than you srly dont understand human physiology or the current direction our evolution is going in because now adays we actually have MORE issues giving birth because womens hips are at best staying the same size and at worst getting smaller and human heads are getting even larger. basically unlike most animals in the animal kingdom, we dont get the luxary of just having em just drop out like it was nothing but instead have to have several hour long sessions of extreme pain and difficulty with often enough times AT LEAST srly health problems occuring for the woman after the fact if not flat out dying to it.
John: "I WIN, GOODBYE!!!!!"
Caller of the year. One of the best argument tactics I have ever experienced!!!
LOLOLOL!!!!!
John from Canada's unhinged ranting was so obnoxiously idiotic that I was actually eager to get to Gohan's call. And predictably, Gohan's muddled attempt to provide a coherent argument for being anti-choice was nearly as excruciating. If you got stuck sitting between these two on a transatlantic flight, you might start to reconsider Noah's We're-All-Living-in-Hell theory.
@@marcosolo6491 Really? I think he was just making ridiculous assertions
Ugh. It’s a shame they’re from Canada. I’m sorry everyone. We have these people up here too…
@@marcosolo6491 Did well at what? He might haved sounded like he was doing well because he stayed so calm and refused to back down, but really he's so attached to his conclusion that he can't see the massive flaws in his arguement that are being highlighted. Forest summed it up when he pointed out Gohan's 'arbitrary line' that he's drawing, which is basically the issue with almost every anti choice arguement. They're all based on arbitrary conclusions and assumptions that butcher any nuance in these discussions.
I LOVE how you connected all calls haha
@@marcosolo6491 gohans rebuttal was arbitrary. It was the line of "if there is potential harm from someone, you are justified in ending their life"
He was just extremely ignorant of the fact that a fetus has the potential for harm. And once it was pointed out to him, he ignorantly denied it. Because he is ignorant.
The analogies they used perfectly exposed the flaws in all his arguments, yet he didn't change his mind. Which is just pathetic
Gohan in the call: "I'm not trying to convince you, I'm trying to unconvince myself"
Gohan in the comments: "haha roe v wades gonna be overturned anyway so there!"
Forrest explained gender/sex so fucking well. That was remarkable. I haven’t heard an explanation that good since my psychology courses in college. I wish more people could understand that simple bit of knowledge…
The modern concept of 'gender identity' was invented by john Money. It has no correlation to anything in reality and it is doing serious harm to impressionable people.
I think Jeffrey handled it really well too, I wish more people were so reasonable.
Yeah, I am totally going to check out the book he plugged.
@@timmonapier8832 Yeah, Jeffrey was so awesome!
@@slang1517 I would say people like you probably do more harm. There's no harm in expressing yourself however you want in a free country
00:00 Intro
02:41 Anthony-VA | Solar Systems Are The Atoms Of God
14:23 Noah-CA | We Are Born And Are Currently Living In Hell
30:18 Jeffrey-PA | God Created Two Genders
43:07 John-(CA) | Gender And Sex Are The Same...Mental Vagina 2.0
49:40 Gohan-TX | Similarities Between Abortion Rights & Organ Donation
1:26:15 Tony-MA | Narcissism In Religion
1:30:36 Outro
Stamps in the description are off
Thank you time stamps person/s.
There is only one solar system, the others are exosolar systems
the look on my face must have been priceless when Jeffrey’s call went so well.
honestly the most faith-in-humanity-restoring call I’ve heard in years.
John knocks all the pieces off the board, "I WIN!"
You forgot the part where he shits all over the board, and struts around on top of his own feces while proudly proclaiming that victory lol.
Haha. Too funny... At least he wasn't emotional at all and relied solely on the strength of his argument and sound reasoning. Oh wait...
Just like pigeon!
You are amazing, Shannon. The 2nd last call. about abortion rights. I followed this along with you. Your lovely rant at the end is refreshing and is so relateable to women in every country. AND, you had the courage to say it out loud. I am sending this to everyone I know. - I live in Canada, and thankfully we have access to morning after pills and hospital visits. I do care about laws for women in the US. They are our friends, allies and influencers of our policies.
Exactly us women have to stick together as this is a males problem and all men need to stand up against this BS.
You have at least one male voice with you. Abortion is a violation of your right to choose not to have a child.
Canadian here as well and I, too, am emotionally invested in ensuring abortion rights for all. We stand together as one ✊
Aw, Jeffrey made me smile. This man just made my whole fucking morning and I'm so happy now. Jeffrey is awesome.
Probably the best episode I've seen in years.
And, Shannon's "excitement" had me cheering!
Agreed. Much as I love Matt, I think he needs a break, he just gets pissed off so quickly these days.
they have cut out the obscene call...rightly so....what possesses people to phone in and be so vulgar
@@davepugh2519 Yeah for sure. I love him and his mastery at formal logic, but I think his patience is wearing thin these days, so I hope he takes a rest and recharges!
@@davepugh2519 More like the last couple of years.
Wow, the conversation with Jeffery went a lot better than I expected. I wish more religious people were willing to have an open mind when talking about that. The hosts did a great job explaining in a thorough and easy to understand manner.
And then the next call went EXACTLY how I expect those conversations to go. The juxtaposition would be hilarious if it weren't so fucking harmful.
Jefferey mentioned being hung up on by Matt. Seems getting hung up on made an impact because his behavior was completely different from what it has been in the past. He seems more open to considering new information than he has been in the past. Not criticizing, that's a great thing.
Geoffrey was the nicest most sensible caller I've ever heard. Quite refreshing
Well done, Forrest and Shannon! To stay graceful when confronted with appalling stupidity is an art in which I failed many times, having a hot temper. Thank you for this wonderful example of how it's done.
"I win!" perfectly displays the problem with Jeffrey's mindset. He sees knowledge as a competition that needs to be "won" to validate his worldview. I enjoy defending my beliefs but not in the sense that I must be correct. If I can't defend a belief it means I learned something, and then I can stop being wrong.
Having said that, what kind of chickenshit, sexually insecure person feels the need to tell other people who they are, scream his ignorance at reasonable people, and run from any further discourse. That is some kind aggressive cowardice.
He’s the majority unfortunately. So unbelievably narcissistic they think their personal, emotional opinion matters more that demonstrable facts. To the point where guys like the caller will say that LITERALLY EVERYTHING except things he feels emotionally validate him is a lie meant to make them “lose”..
When you ask THEM where they get their facts from, they either don’t acknowledge the question, or give you a random website, YT channel, or Reddit post that begins and ends with “everyone is lying but me”.
I’m not exaggerating. I’ve sent parodies to guys like him who believe it BECAUSE there’s “not a way to prove it false and you can’t trust the government”.
Huh? Jeffrey wasn’t like that at all
1. You mean John, not Jeffery.
2. How would John react if this interaction happens face to face? Would he scram "I won" and then actually run away?
@@urasam2 Got him mixed up with John. Thank you for catching that
@@Masterfrank_MCMLXX Yea he probably would because it’s acceptable nowadays. He’d have a flock to back him up, tell him how smart and great he is, and that anyone who disagrees is just out to hurt them personally.
I think I've been bamboozled by RUclips. I swear I've subscribed to this channel three times now...
These two made this probably the most interesting show I've ever watched here on the Athiest Experience.
Please promise us you two will do this show together more often.
God is proved by what we observe:
1. You’re DYING - not evolving. ALL MATTER does nothing but dissipate (entropy) over time. DYING DNA is combined to form eggs/seeds and that DYING DNA continues to DIE; always heading steadily toward it’s end (heat death).
2. You’re not going to GAIN new anatomy, such as wings; you’re going to LOSE your 20/20 vision.
3. You’re not going to GAIN telekinesis; you’re going to LOSE all or part of your hearing.
Summary: You’re going to LOSE your health and in the end, LOSE your life (heat death). All matter is contiguous & under the same laws. ALL MATTER LOSES INFORMATION & that’s why you never see a GAIN OF INFORMATION (e.g. big bang, abiogenesis, mistakes (mutations) gaining in complexity/new information, star formation, evolution). Atheism = delusion.
First caller: “Everything you said is true and I agree with it BUT I like my metaphor and I want God to be real.”
Second caller: “life’s a horrific joke, but it will all be okay afterwards, because god-reasons”
Fourth caller: “I WIN!” Yeah, buddy. You’re a legend in your own basement.
Fifth caller: “violate people’s rights and make them give birth because God,” said the guy without a uterus, yet again. Gohan says abortion should be permitted where there’s potential for severe harm - but that’s literally every pregnancy. Many serious complications don’t arise until delivery or just afterwards, and if we’re to include psychological harm, cases of trauma from being forced to carry a rapist’s baby would surely have to qualify, as much as post-natal depression. And I have to wonder where this caller stands on making medical care, including mental health, accessible to all people for little or no cost. Dude was so desperate to demonise abortion that he could barely keep his analogies straight.
Being fair though, the Fifth caller said he was calling to try and get himself off from being Pro-Life.
No way to know if he was being genuine in that, but if he was, good for him.
@@ItCameFromTheSkyBeLo not his first time around with the same arguments. If he's genuine, he's stuck and i don't know what exactly is going to get through to him.
Hahah they did cut caller 2 because he was pranking obscenities, I love it.
@@cambriaofthevastoceans6721 what a shame.
1) I never mentioned god in my discussion
2) why does my sex matter?
3) vast majority of pregnancies do not bring high risk of severe harm. Most are deemed healthy for both kid and mom
4) I wasn’t trying to argue against abortion in the call I was trying to state there is no comparison between banning abortion and forced pregnancy
Matt’s abortion argument is my absolute favorite because it’s so hard to wiggle out of - ‘Should anyone be able to force someone to remain pregnant against their will?’ - and I absolutely love Shannon going off at the end of Gohan’s call, her real life example is heartbreaking and a perfect example of why men need to mind their own business when it comes to what women do with their bodies.
Shannon’s “rant” at the end of that call resonated with me so hard. Was damn near in tears, not kidding. I feel that frustration when I talk to some of my family about this. I had to show my husband this episode-he was cheering for Shannon too, and he’s also joined the Forrest Fan club! 😆
Shannon, thank you for your conversation with Gohan. Your tone was perfect. Anti choice laws are completely sexist. No medical procedure that only men can have is regulated like abortion. Beautiful job, both of you.
Gohan was embarrassing. He bent over backwards more and more to try to have his opinion fit the evidence and analogies, then, when his back finally broke, he cried sexism. Pathetic.
How can they be sexist? Both men and women can get pregnant? It’s very transphobic to say “I wish men could get pregnant so they would know how it feels”. Men can get pregnant too.
Shannon lost her cool and slipped up.
@@gohanprolife8389”answer that without being sexist”? You laughably pathetic and dishonest child. Listen to the call again.
You went from analogy to analogy, every time it no longer fit your limited knowledge or consideration of the topic. Your back finally broke when you accused Shannon of saying men can’t discuss the topic, despite you having a good 20 minutes doing just that and her not saying anything of the sort.
@@gohanprolife8389 it is totally appropriate to lose your cool at misogynistic assholes who think forced pregnancy is somehow ethical.
@@gohanprolife8389 You are a creepy sociopath with an OBSESSION with OTHER people's bodies. You realize that, right?
Thank-you Shannon for finally giving him the telling off that my brain was screaming. I almost had to turn off thr program if you hadn’t saved my sanity.
Shannon, you have no idea how much your "nervous breakdowns" mean to me to hear on air.
Of course we know it's not a breakdown-it is intense PASSION. Lately, I've felt so alone in my passion for these subjects-with no friends or Allies. It's really taking its toll.
Anybody who DOES bother to listen makes sure to quickly remind me that my silly woman brain and/or my wandering uterus is just making me hysterical (I'm only KINDA exaggerating)
I'm sick of being told to shut up or hush to keep the peace or asked why I'm trying to be difficult & upset(?)
Hearing you have this platform with that fire and passion just OUT THERE is just wonderful and I feel like I can breathe for the first time in quite awhile. Thank you so much, Shannon ❤️
Forrest, you're an incredible friend and ally to ALL. I've been subscribed to your channel for a little while now and your passion for teaching is so magnetic. I'm more than overjoyed to see you part of The Atheist Experience team.
I don't think I've ever enjoyed a show as much as with you too as hosts! ❤️
_Lately, I've felt so alone in my passion for these subjects-with no friends or Allies._
You have allies online. I wouldn't say that the internet is a perfect haven of reason and respect - heh, heh - but it _does_ let us see that we're not alone, even when it might seem like that in our personal lives.
Hang in there. There are lots of terrible places on the internet - and on RUclips - but we don't need to visit those places. The news is usually depressing enough, huh? So, when I hang out, I want to hang out with people who make me think that maybe there's some hope for human beings, after all - which means places like this. :)
@@Bill_Garthright thank you SO much for taking the time out of your evening to write that to me! It really meant so much! You were right!😀☺️
@@stacyc.9893 and if they existed, the Gnomes with cotton candy nervous systems would be with you too.
@@uncleanunicorn4571 EVIDENCE, SCHMEVIDENCE! I ASSERT THEM..... REAL!!!!
Noah did something I didn't think was possible. His argument was so horrific that Forrest got angry. Bad Noah, no cookie for you!
Not really, he proved that my point of view is true. If there was a god, it must be the grand daddy of narcissism. No god would allow our reality and people call him all loving.
I hate how believers think it is ok to make Shit up about a place they have never been to and never will
Ya Noah sounds psychotic
Also, and I don't think the hosts had time to address this, his whole point seems to hinge on the idea that you consider this world horrible or hellish, but I don't, I love this world and I think it's fragile and precious, does it have elements that are frightening and dangerous and painful? Yes, but it is also beautiful and we need to look after it, and it's this exact attitude of the religious that will hold us back. It leads to the conclusion that we don't need to do anything because this life doesn't matter.
In the Netherlands an 8 year old was abused and murdered this weekend. Noah thinks this is God's humor apparently....... his parents must find it sooo funny....
His name was Gino. And he isn't laughing in heaven.
Shannon is... A fucking force to be reckoned with. She's so blunt and has a sort of resolute sense of self and understanding of what she's saying. Its honestly kind of amazing to behild
I'm so sad I didn't get to catch this live. You two rock and I'm stoked you're hosting at the same time!
Forest is an absolutely great addition. Shannon and Matt are my current favorites but I think I have to add for us to that list. No offense to the other hosts whatsoever they are all great but I would love to see those three in action together. That's ability to argue with so much knowledge on the Bible and his debate skills, mixed with Shannon's knowledge of the human brain and such, and now forests biology expertise, that is a trifecta of which we've never seen before on the show. Absolutely awesome additions
Forrest is a BEAST, I'm so glad he joined the show
Nep reported for spam
@@jayrose8638 I can’t believe he’s STILL spending all his time here. Such a sad little man.
@@neverendingparty1534 nope. Sorry. You believe in Santa
@@MrShigura I believe it. They don’t seem to have a life beyond the comments section.
And what’s worse is they can’t even put real effort into that. It’s all copy/paste laziness.
I have never felt more affirmed and validated as a pregnant person with SPD (pubic bone has come apart too far) and I have been drastically physically limited and in so much pain. I've 'chosen' to continue with the pregnancy. It honestly means so much to have you guys acknowledge the dangers and effects whereas so many ppl treat pregnancy like it's 'no big deal'. THANK YOU!! ❤️❤️❤️
I, too, chose to continue a pregnancy that nearly killed me. My husband’s life was never in danger . Your husband’s pelvis is perfectly fine. THAT’S why it should always be a woman’s choice.
@@donnaprather1066 Holla to that!!
It is incredible how Forrest Valkai educates people in the Atheits experience.
I think he's now one of my favorite hosts.
Cheers!
As others have said, I wish he had been my biology teacher! I have learned so much from just from this show.
He’s my favorite host! He would be a pleasure to chill and have a beer with or whatever.
Just finished listening to the podcast. Gohan is SUCH a dishonest interlocutor. He presented his reasoning for his belief, then when presented with scenarios that DECIMATED his reasoning, he moved the goal posts. Then the penultimate--he claimed Shannon said he shouldn't have an opinion because of his sex/gender! She didn't say anything remotely to that effect, and lost her shit on him, rightfully so.
What goal posts did I move bud?
I appreciate that they had him turned around arguing FOR bodily autonomy in the middle of the conversation.
I'm going to lose my leg cuz some kid is obliviously swinging a sword around, so I'm going to take him out. Yeah. Exactly. This fetus is obliviously going to wreck all my insides, and I am going to take it out.
The goal post of being sexist. You said she was being sexist.
@@gohanprolife8389 You constantly moved deeper and deeper into reasoning for being able to kill someone, but not in other scenarios.
Saying (and this is reducing the argument, but is what you said) "You can shoot a child that has a sword for looking at you wrong, but you can't abort a fetus who is not even a thinking being yet."
And then you moved to legality of someone being punished for negligence, how it is and how you think it should be, etc.
That's the goal post shift. You reasoned for something already in place, but once you realized it doesn't agree with you in the way you want you moved to reason to change it.
Learn to respect women, and their bodily autonomy, just like women have respected your autonomy for the entirety of human existence.
"If there are gnomes living under my house, then their nervous system might be made of cotton candy." - Forrest Valkai 2022
Hey Jon: please never stop calling in. You are a caricature of the fundamentalist, conservative mindset’s worst elements. Pathetic, hilarious, and incredibly damaging to your ideology. So good. 🤌
Jon should call in every week, I got such a good laugh.
I was cracking up...it's sad because you could hear his frustration, so I'm sure there's something else going on.
Why would he need to? He's already won! Goodbye!!!! ROFLMAO XD
@@MisterMoncivais Just say you think he's secretly transgender.
Well... That's what I suspect anyway and I think the same of Jordan Peterson.
@@TheAGNOSTIC_who_YT_CENSORS Trooooll
Two of my favorite hosts together! 😄 What a perfect breaktime treat!
Great call with Jeffrey! Good on him for being open and willing to have a real conversation.
This was the BEST show you guys have EVER had! I absolutely LOVED Shannon Q & Forrest as hosts! AMAZING! LOVED IT!!!
Excellent show this week, hot damn! Shannon’s and Forrest’s style/approach compliment each other wonderfully.
Gohan is so frustrating. I applaud you, Shannon, the amount of patience and restraint you showed, just wow. It's so obvious he never really, truly thought about his position and all the real life implications. As soon as you mentioned those, he derailed the conversation.
Also, there are women in prison right now, in the US, because of a miscarriage. Courts should NOT make these decisions, since they are rarely comprised of doctors/biologists.
I LOVE you, Shannon Q! Both of you are awesome, especially together! Thank you both for standing up for women.
Shannon absolutely crushed the abortion argument, as always. Pointed out the flaws in gohans argument, made him sound ridiculous 😂
Gohan ANY surgery has risks. Literally. You wouldn't force a man to donate blood. Under any circumstance. And it's such a low risk it's not funny.
But you think a pregnancy ISN'T high risk, then you're truly ignorant (which is unbelievably obvious)
Gohan was so good that at the end she went histerical and couldn't answer the good arguments he made. are you responsible for homicide or not?
@@bertfru3269 This from the clown who completely straw manned Shannon all over the comments here. 🙄
@@bertfru3269 lol even though you're a troll, you didn't listen to the call. Even gohan agreed that if you think there's a significant threat, you're not responsible for homicide 😃
So we're all in agreement, gohan was wrong😘😘😘
@@sycofreake1 Yes we all agree on that so why was Gohan wrong?
"I win goodbye" is a worse admission of failure than I was even expecting lmao
Forrest and Shannon really work well together! Somehow they always manage to make the same point from two different angles at the same time.
If Shannon + Forrest were the weekly hosts for The Atheist Experience for the next 3-5 years I would have absolutely 0 complaints! Their chemistry with Forrest's background in biology + Shannon's background in psychology is absolutely infectious and provides a fantastic show to address any of the major questions or arguments a caller may have!
Was scrolling through various shows/clips and when I saw that Forrest and Shannon were in together I knew it would be good. And it was! I’m right, I win! End of conversation. Click!
"If you're going to have a conversation with me about how I'm oppressing you, you better watch your tone" lol. Awesome show guys.
Props to Jeffrey for being so respectful and open to new ideas!
What a Spectacular duo!
Thanks Shannon and Forrest, you guys are inspirational.
I swear to the gods that if this one show alone was shown in every church in the country and they had to dissect and analyse it there would be some serious rethinking and realisations. You two and the whole crew are awesome.
Thank you from New Zealand.
I love Forrest. He's able to articulate his point while sounding so excited to just teach and hopefully give people more knowledge or the thirst for that knowledge.
I think that he sounds that way because that’s just who he is, and that’s just brilliant.
Jeffery is a rare gem, we disagree but he's open to learning instead of mind closed like most callers. Good on ya mate! Hopefully one day he comes to realize he's wasting his time and thoughts on an imaginary fable story but if not he's still a good person.
It's so hilarious when these anti-abortion advocates are faced with the real world implication of making abortion illegal and they have to flounder around to still justify their stances. Gohan has done this for years. He wants to control other people's bodies, but doesn't want to say that's the case, so comes up with the most idiotic mental gymnastics to justify controlling other people's bodies.
This doesn't really concern me since I live in a country where my rights for my body are violated very very little.
I've been really concerned about the situations of those people whose pregnancy is still ongoing but the fetus is dead. Are they not allowed to terminate the pregnancy to get the already dead fetus out? That situation can go on for weeks and can cause at its worse medical complications that can make getting pregnant again harder.
Or those situations where the baby is big enough to survive outside the womb, and a medical emerdency occurs where ending the pregnancy is the only way to save the baby. Is aborting the pregnancy allowed then?
(English is not my native language, sorry for the possible grammatical errors that I cannot even notice )
@@outoSUMI Depends on the state. Some states make no exceptions so the people jn those states just have to die I guess. The details show that these anti-abortion morons aren't pro-life.
@@outoSUMI in the USA? When roe v wade is terminated, there will be trigger laws in some states that will not allow abortion in those circumstances.
Trigger laws are laws that have been passed but will only be triggered when roe v. Wade is overturned.
For example, in Louisiana which has the most radical forced birth trigger law passed certain iud will not be covered since their trigger law says life begins at fertilization. Of course, in vitro fertilization will also be illegal.
This change in law will result in the death of 100s of thousands of women.
@@mariev3821 This is really sad to hear. Especially the second situation that I mentioned, banning abortion at that point would force the pregnant person to lose their baby that would have lived if the pregnancy would be terminated.
@@outoSUMI I'm not sure of the second situation, emergency c section is different than an abortion.
another upvote for Forrest, however i came here to say how much i loved Jeffrey’s call. what an awesome, wholesome conversation where someone actually learned something and acknowledged/thanked the other for informing him. and the hosts respect for Jeffrey’s initial position.
Yeah, if only more theists were like Jeffrey, the world would be a much better place.
@@jooyoonchung3593 You didn’t hear his last call with Matt…
Atheism comes to die on the internet as you have nothing to offer to the argument of do gods exist or not. Your lack of knowledge and evidence for gods not existing is essentially making atheism a null point. We theists just move on past you.
Atheism = delusion. NOTHING atheists desperately believe (e.g. multiverse, big bang, abiogenesis, mistakes (mutations) gaining in complexity/new information, star formation, evolution) can be observed or even proved to be possible, because NONE OF IT EXISTS. Certainly, none of it repeats. Entropy doesn't allow ANY OF IT, as matter only goes in one CONSTANT, UNRELENTING direction (bad to worse) until it's END/heat death. GENESIS IS AN ABSOLUTE NECESSITY, because all these facts REQUIRE God to have provided the initial usable energy for this universe, because it's all being consumed. Try to learn.
Christianity (God, Creation, The Bible) is BY FAR the best explanation for the facts and data we observe. For example, If the atheist is honest, they will agree that we observe that we’re dying - not evolving. We observe and know that we’re going to LOSE our 20/20 vision - not gain in vision. We know we’re going to LOSE our hearing - not gain in hearing ability. We know we’re going to LOSE our health - not gain in vitality. We know we’re going to LOSE our life and die - not live on. We also know that it’s been this way for humans for +/- 10,000 yrs. The same goes for all animals & plants.
@@MrShigura yep agreed Jeff was scary
@@MrShigura do you happen to know which episode that was? I’m curious to see the difference
Absolutely love every episode with Shannon, pairing her with Forrest is a special treat! I learn so much from both of them and really enjoy how their intelligence and humor meshes so well.
What a fantastic team, really enjoyed this episode. Thank you!
It's very telling that as soon as you told Gohan to justify his belief that he gets to decide what you do with your body it's all of a sudden time to get off the phone and you're being unreasonable and sexist for telling him he has to justify his bullshit. That's a great sign of an empty argument.
What are you talking about? I gave my reasoning the entire phone call until the end when she started to say sexist things
@@gohanprolife8389 what thing did you say? It seems like it was lost in the call and your fear of justifying what you want women to be forced into but maybe I'm wrong. To me it sounded like special pleading and ignoring what they said that points out the clear flaws in thinking here.
@@gohanprolife8389 cat got your tongue?
@@49perfectss bro I have like fifty chains to respond to hold your horses haha. Wait in line everyone gets a chance to talk to gohan!
I was asking “why does my sex matter”. You couldn’t hear that because I was on hold and Shannon didn’t inform me or the audience. Dishonest
@@gohanprolife8389 yawn what a weak excuse from a weak little boy
Gohan's argument falls under a false assumption that all killings are murder and all murders are wrong. Say the two magic words, "self-defense," and most folks arguing to save fetuses are eager, happy, or at least ok with killing in self-defense. The death penalty is another example of when it isn't murder to kill someone. However, we need more than only a poorly defined word, "murder," to make a case here.
I'm sure most folks would cringe at the idea of some authority, like a government, forcing women to be breeding incubators and have children against their will. This is the kind of government overreach Americans envision when they talk about the second amendment. To defend ourselves from such tyranny, using guns to kill people would be viewed as acceptable, not wrongful murder. It is, after all, self-defense.
What happens when we apply this same test to rapists? Anti-abortion laws that prevent women from having abortions in cases of rape allow rapists to act on the government's allowance to force women to become breeding incubators and have children. The counter-argument here is, of course, that rapists should be punished. Another way to look at that punishment is the cost of doing business. You can spread your seed as long as you're willing to spend some time in jail - maybe for as little as six months; or less if you're not caught.
We can keep digging this rabbit hole deeper, but in the end, not all killings are murders and therefore are not all wrong. Life is preferable, but we can't escape the fact that all killings are not wrong. We could then justify an exception for rape. The problem now is the same problem addressed under Roe v. Wade. That ruling was never about abortion, it was about privacy. If a woman goes into a doctor's office to get an abortion and tells her doctor why she should be allowed to have an abortion, there is a clear doctor-patient privilege there. No one outside of those two people has any right to know what that conversation was about. Even if there was a law that said, "except for cases of rape, all abortions are illegal," there's be no way to enforce that law without violating patient-doctor confidentiality or waiting for someone to make a mistake.
It's always a treat when John calls in.
wait...he has called before? Has to be a troll...
@@mihaimoldo He has gotten more and more obstinate, ignorant and angry over the last year or so. He is in a victim spiral.
Forrest, you are so eloquent, you really explain so well, I love to listen to you!
What a delight!!! I LOVE these two hosts!! I admire Shannon's eloquency and precision so much! And Forrest is someone I deeply admire as a science communicator and as a science communication student myself. Much love from Latin America! Edit: typos, sorry.
Holy fk Gohan, that exchange after Shannon gave you a taste of her “emotions” was infuriating, huge kudos to Shannon for even letting you try to come back after that arrogant bullcrap. Then you rightfully got hung up after keeping that crap up as you attempt to play the victim. Cowardly and completely tone deaf after both had shown you amazing patience.
It was a great call right up untill the end there
The hosts did a great job, especially in light of some of these callers.
Great episode. Thank you Shannon for laying that down!
Shannon, I'm so sorry for what you went through.
I think you and Forrest handled today's calls very well.
13:00 - Shannon & Forrest are a fun combo! Both admittedly nerdy and KNOW THEIR SHIT!!! Great show you two!!!
So Gohan is okay with *shooting a 5-year-old* who might hurt his leg, but not with ending the life of a non-sentient embryo or fetus. Wow.
Jon didn't even realise how well he got trapped before he fled.
Gohan- You cant decide to
abort a fetus that is inside of you because of rape. But I can decide to shoot a 5 year old toddler that has a sword regardless of his intent. WHAAAAT?? That call was terrifying.
I read this comment before actually getting to that part. I thought that was a fun hypothetical Forrest or Shannon brought up-"what if a 5 year old is going to kill you? Do you have a right to protect yourself from them?" kinda thing
But Gohan just _offers up_ the phrase "maybe they're gonna cut off one of your limbs-I think you can shoot that five-year-old. "Nearly did a spit take when I heard that phrase out loud
I'm a bit disappointed that they didn't latch onto his claim that pregnancies aren't always incredibly risky for a woman. That's a wild take that I think can only come from a conservative man who was not present when his kids were born.
I couldn't agree more! Right before finding your comment, I had made my own similar post: "If a 5-year-old is carelessly swinging a sword around totally oblivious to the danger he's imparting on those around him, it's completely justifiable to shoot that kid in the face until he's dead. BUT! Considering the fact that I am "pro-life," if a woman is impregnated by a rapist, her decision to abort the pregnancy should be treated the same as murder." How do people like Gohan not realize how dangerously flawed this kind of logic is? Does he seriously not understand that this kind of analogy makes him sound batshit crazy?
Yeah. Screw that guy
You go Shannon! Love the ending on your rights! Just wow!
You too Forrest! Great show!
Love Forrest and Shannon together. They are just the right amount of nice and ruthless.
Which is which?
@@jimkoss3318 They are both nice at times and ruthless at times.
THAT'S the perfect way to describe it- I love it!
Gohan-Tx was a great call. As a man, who doesn’t really have strong feelings about the issue ( I live in the UK where I feel we have the law about right), I got some great insights into why I should really care more about the issue. The anti-abortionists really do not have a convincing argument IMO. But the enforced vasectomy thing sounds like a brilliant alternative for “pro-lifers”. I felt for Gohan at the end, but Shannon-Q was perfectly entitled to go off on one at the end. In the end I felt I learned something. Pro lifers or anti-body-autonomists are advocating for a logical minefield and a legal absurdity.
Close bud. Your allowed to your opinion no worries. If I refuse to have a vasectomy who do I directly kill? No one
If I have an abortion, who do I directly kill? A human organism.
OMGs!!!! Shannon you are fucking AWESOME!!!!!!! What you said to Gohan was fantastic!!! 🩷🩷🩷🩷
“Gohan” was gross. Good example of how theists often can’t admit defeat even when it’s made obvious they are wrong.
If I became atheist today I’d be pro life tomorrow. Theism has nothing to do with the argument I presented today.
And he's still gross.
@@cambriaofthevastoceans6721 Forrest isn’t gross. Come on bro have some class
@@gohanprolife8389 that all you've got? Clever...
@@cambriaofthevastoceans6721 a simple reply from me for a simple comment from you
That Jeffery was the best call I've heard in all the AXP. My face relaxed for the first time in months. you have no idea how much good that did me.
I recently came across these videos and Jeffrey was the first one who seemed willing to learn. So many people come on trying to explain or change you’re view but he was amazing! If you’re seeing this Jeffrey, we need more people like you!
Thank you Shannon for speaking for women. I absolutely hate how some men think that they can tell women what to do with their bodies, and don't give a shit about our lives.
no body force you to put someone in your body indeed. but if you do you have to provide for the need you puted him into.
@@bertfru3269 Mind your own business and learn how to write properly. We can barely understand what you are saying.
@@justforviewing2 I m not english speaker. But I guess if you could argue you would have.
@@bertfru3269 bruv, nobody cares what you have to say about enslaving women to produce babies.
Nobody gets to use anybody's body without their consent. Nobody gets to continue to use anybody's body without their continuing consent.
According to Shannon, we can't know if the stranger talking to us is a man or a woman. So how do you know that it's men telling women what to do?😉
I personally believe that men have every right to discuss abortion since abortion impacts both male and female babies. I was once a fetus and I'm very happy I was not aborted.
great job guys! killer team right there. I enjoyed the abortion call. I didn't expect Shannon to get so worked up but she had a good reason.
YES SHANNON!!!!!!!! WELL SAID!
It seems that Gohan is fully committed to disallowing disconnecting from the violinist until such a time that their life will not end due to disconnecting.
And apparently only outwardly visible injury seems to matter when it comes to self defense.
It's so great hearing someone like that Jeffrey guy who called in. When presented with new information he admitted that he was not educated well enough on the subject instead of digging in his heels. Respect.
Gohan wants a consistent standard it sounds like, he just can't accept that the bodily autonomy/organ donation argument is the consistent standard already...
"I WIN!!!" Should be Forrest's version of Matt's "You're done!"