When I volunteered for an afterschool group, we used SM58s. half of them had been used around and by children for decades. Those things pretty much need water damage, extreme heat, or repeated blunt force trauma to break.
I believe you. The sound of your voice in this video is excellent, and the level is perfect as compared to many other sound/ audiofile videos on youtube.
I am pretty experienced with audio engineering, just came for a recap / see if I forgot anything or could learn anything new and I always love a great comparison video. This was probably the actual best video for explaining the differences on a fundamental level and showing the differences in a nuanced way. I'm sure many people listening through their phone speakers won't hear much of a difference but I just hope they can understand that this is a different use of different microphones than usual. It really matters a lot what you start with when recording music that will then be post editted and cleaned up. You may only hear that one mic sounds obviously crisper here... clearly has much more audible super high treble... but that may sound obviously better in this context... but that may not be what you want to use on a dark folk acoustic song snare drum... for example. OR it may be exactly what you want on it to liven it up without changing the magical guitar tone or whatever. It's incredibly important what the intent is. And it's so so important to inform beginners that when in doubt... always record higher fidelity than you may think you need. It is much... much easier to degrade a sound or change a sound to a darker or less dynamic sound than it is to feign or edit something to be "better" than what was captured. If you effectively reduce or eliminate as much mixing as possible when in the "micing" phase... you have done your job well. Mic choice and placement and knowing the intent could result in you barely needing to do anything in the mixing stage if you nail it. Of course that's almost never the case... but you can get damn good to the point where you only need to do basic mixing later like basic volume or low end roll off for plosives etc. The better it is at the source... is the less of a chance of fucking it up later.
I'd like to defend the AT2020! I'll agree that it's not the best general purpose mic but I've found the it works very well for field recording or live/streaming unamplified music when the mics are placed some distance away from the instruments or singers (usually 10-20 feet) so it captures the sound as an audience member would hear it. I've used it for piano, chamber groups, choir, and organ and gotten very good results I've used some other more expensive mics in these settings and haven't really heard much difference. So, I'll continue to take these less expensive mics out in the field rather than risking my more expensive mics! It's not a mic that I would use on a guitar cabinet, drum set or for any close mic setting however.
I do not prefer that mic I bought it and was extremely disappointed in comparison to a dynamic sm48. I can see how it could sound good for certain situations, but bottom line that essentially makes this a niche mic.
The AT2020 is also one of the more popular microphones for streamers on Twitch, as it's a very nice sounding mic for just recording voice for relatively cheap
Thanks for the explanation. After watching a few videos explaining the difference, I've learned a dynamic microphone is better for live use, dj gig or maybe live podcast. Condenser for studio recording.
Hey Audio University, love your channel, thanks for informative and meticulous content as well as your dedication to help and educate people who are in audio. Wish you all the best and the continous channel growth🙂♥️
I love your channel bro. You are definitely educated in audio. Thank you so much. If I learn anything in audio, it’s definitely you I trust, thanks again for your service.
You missed one quite important factor, imo, that way too few ppl know and talk about. It is the impulse response, aka the fact that condencer mics have a resonance, because of the tightness of their membranes. The best way to explain it is that the condencer mic capsule essentially is a tiny drum, which has a resonant frequency. Usually this is in some high frequency(2-8khz more or less) , where exactly, depends on the mic. Since most manufacturers do mitigate this resonance, its not a single frequency, but more like an area. But there still is a resonance to it. Mic manufacturers might even call it some fancy nice sounding name(presence, airy highs etc), rather than what it really is. So yeah.
This is also a big reason why condencer mics for stereo recording are often matched pairs. They essentially match the resonance for these matched pairs.
Every elastic system has a resonance frequency fam, especially dynamics which often have a very narrow one tuned around the most sensitive part of the ear around 3-4K, it really shows on the FR graphs of pretty much all of them. This also helps make them sound louder (needed because of the very low sensitivity) and it sounds like they're rejecting more background noise (but it's an illusion). This results in a very unnatural mid centric sound, with very little treble and bass only available with the proximity effect (which makes things even less natural and accurate). They're truly old tech, the only advantage is that they're a simpler and more robust system, but that comes with a lot of trade offs. Their value is way too inflated by """"broadcast""""" """"" radio""""""" """""""for noisy environnements"""""" marketings (which are outright false at that) and should all cost way less than they do
I use condensers exclusively in a bluegrass band. I find that 57/58’s have a huge resonance that want to feed back at 4-6Khz. In my experience, condensers have a much flatter response, and sound much better in an acoustic band. To me, the peaky SM57/58’s work best in an electric band where you need that bump to bring it through the mix. For me, throwing those in with condensers, just cause a bunch of response imbalances that I don’t have even with a mixed variety of condensers.
@@capohd28 I agree sm57/58 have a shrinkwrapped sound which make any large or resonant instrument sound tiny and clear, I never use them. It is a cult of just good enough not great but workhorse tiny clear sound. Acoustic instruments have many subtle overtones, sound of wood, sound of strings, mix of sounds in the air around the instruments that SM57 make tiny and clear, and loses the big and warm hug of a much better mic, Neuman instrument condenser mics for live performance are my favorites. If someone uses SM 57/58 run, unless it's a rock bank of all electric instruments in a loud non subtle environment where fighting to be heard in the storm of sound is the norm. It's worth the money for a great mic that will last a lifetime. If you spend thousands on instruments and then shrink your sound with cheap mikes then why not buy one great mike for your great instrument or voice? I buy used Neumans on eBay and I can love the great vocal instrument sounds for live performance. I played a gig in a Jazz band with a Bosendorfer and the sound guy miked it with SM57's and the constrat between the live real sound of the piano and the playback was so painful to hear. I suggested to stop miking a 100000 dollar instrument with cheap mikes that make it sound like stuffed into a hifiradio and instead replace the mic with condensers and wow the great grand sound of the piano returned, and then I had to mic my violin next to that great sound, this was a live jazz gig in NYC.
Julian was the one who originally convicted me to improve my own sound setup, went from tiny pc speaker and a astro A40 setup to presonus E5xt speakers, audient id4 mk II audio interface and the xm8500 mic (punches well above its weight for its price), excellent video for someone who has limited knowledge of condenser mics,
I’d honestly recommend this channel, to any musician, podcast, voice actor or anybody else. Very educating. Straight to the point. Very formal No useless info And everything worth knowing.
Great video! The sound example with the 4 mics towards the end is one of the best reasons to watch this video. It makes the difference more visceral to the ear.
I love dynamic mics for vocal productions but condenser mic works well for certain instruments as well dynamics. But you you really have to understand which mic is best for you, as in the after edit product you've recorded is easier to edit for you. I own a sm57 and a sm7b but I plan to upgrade here soon as well.
@@johnsuggs7828what’s a good mic for recording rap vocals and for people with just quieter voices? Im just a quiet reserved dude and I gotta be eating my SM58 mic just to hear a sound and then frank the gain up to max and it barely comes out crisp or loud. Any tips?
As a singer in a live setting you absolutely need the higher SPL or you start clipping in the red at volume 4 on any decent PA system. Try comparing Neumanns or Alexis tube microphones to the less expensive ones you compared. It’s akin to the difference between a Lamborghini super car and a production corvette. Tubes however seem to work even better in the studio.
Thank you for this comprehensive overview. But there is one thing I don't understand: Dynamic mics are often said to reject off-axis sound better - like you demonstrated in your video at 04:00. Yet I didn't find any proof that this behaviour has anything to do with the type of transformation from acoustic energy to electric energy. I'd rather suspect it to be a design feature of the individual microphones. Because dynamic mics are more often used in situations which profit in strong off-axis rejection (like live shows, high noise environments, etc) the designers of these microphones may have favored a stronger directivity whereas condenser mics are mostly used in well controlled studio situations in which fidelity (eg. an angle invariant frequency range) is of more importance.
You're right, it depends on each mics polar pattern, but they all mostly behave the same, I've done tons of experiments about this. It's one of the biggest misconception about them
Imagine - one day, there will be a mic holder that recognizes the microphone, knows it orientation and polar pattern, knows what you want to record, knows the layout of the environment you are in and adjusts the microphone for you. One day. Today, be nice if microphones had their polar pattern printed on them. Idea for you - do a set of stickers for microphones with their polar pattern on them. Might make a merchusic store revenue for you. I'm donating that idea to you, alas can't afford anything else. Keep up the great content.
I just switched from a rode NT1 to a Shure SM7B and one thing that is very important when selecting a microphone is knowing the room you'll use to record. When I moved to a different city my home studio became a sterile, flatted wall room, which is very reflective, causing my recordings to sound horrible due to the frequencies that were bouncing back into my mic. I could no longer play the guitar and sing at the same time without getting too much signal from my acoustic guitar sipping into my recordings. The Shure SM7B fixed that issue by just being... quieter.
@@Youngdaggger888 It depends on a myriad of factors. How loud /reflective is the place you're recording? What type of voice do you have ? How much will you edit the vocal in post? What's your budget? How experienced are you with both recording and editing in post? as a general rule: If you do not know any of those things, look for a microphone that has a flat response, which will yield a better result when editing the frequencies in post production. If you have a quiet room that has a lot of furniture or is treated with acoustic panels/foam, I would tend to choose a condenser just because it gives you more details to work in post, if your room, like mine now, is very reflective (sounds bounce back and forth, adding up undesireable reverb), I would choose a decent dynamic mic. However, budget is very important, if your budget is low, try to find a decent USB microphone and find a quiet place which is not super reflective that you can use to record. However, remember: Good gear does not make up for bad technique. Improve your singining, recording technique and learn how to edit your audio before spending a lot of money in gear, those first things will improve your end result more than throwing money into studio equipment Cheers mate!
Depends on the usage, in an ambient room, take the Dynamic, in a special treated room with zero ambient, U can use a dynamic, or a condenser. A SM58 sounds a little muffled if you hold it to your mouth (close mic), if a little from your mouth, it sounds way better. You have to find the sweet spot from that MIC. You can learn MIC techniques, close MIC or FOR podcasts I would use a SM7b, problem with this MIC the output is low, and you have to use a very transparent MIC Pré or a TritonAudio FetHead class A Pré amplifier, and maybe a few mods for your kind of voice/ instrument, for the fethead you also need Phantom Power 24 or 48V, just as Condensers 48V from your console or MIC pré. Condensers are not made for close MIC, heck you can even destroy the capsule from the MIC, always look good to the max db's pressures these can handle, these are also very sensitive, a shock mount and a popfilter is necessary. But the sound is much better than a dynamic MIC. I use the best of both worlds, like the Lewitt LCT 440 PURE $220. That's a very low price for a quality Condenser MIC.
So I have a SM58 and I have to be putting my mouth all up in the mic just to hear a sound. I test it at a plethora of ranges but it still sounds the same low, muffled quiet sound. I just rap and speak into the mic pretty much but it’s barely picking my voice up even if I speak up or scream so ion know what to do
I have a humble Xonar X5 audio interface that allows me to record with studio quality and it only has one mic input which is for dynamic ones. I have it as a backup in case I have a problem with my Blue Yetti. The Blue Yetti is a budget condenser microphone. Since I only record one source, i.e. my voice, I use the cardioid setting with minimum gain and dicreased input on the so that I have to speak closer to the microphone and louder as well. Thus, I diminish background noise and ambient reverberation. If I choose to use a dynamic microphone, I will probably try to reproduce these settings. Thanks for this video.
Pretty simple and accurate video, not falling for the usual memes and myths so it's great. One thing tho, regarding the polar pattern, comparing an open Cardio condenser to a RE20 is not really fair, as RE are known to be closer to supercardio (it shows on the specs sheets) as they have a special technology that makes their microphone pretty focused and that virtually eliminates the proximity effect (you can pretty clearly see the feedback vents on the mic). In reality and by rigorously testing it, you'll find that most cardios behave the same way, regardless of the tech especially in real world use and that sometimes some cardio SDCs actually leave dynamics in the dust regarding off axis rejection. An important thing to note is that background noise rejection is not a thing, it's impossible for a mic to reject background noise unless they have some sort of expander behaviour, which is never the case and would be a nightmare anyway. The feeling of rejection is almost entirely due to 1 - frequency response and 2 - polar pattern, 1 can be easily matched from condenser to dyn (not the other way around) and 2 is not really bound to a certain technology. But in the end what makes a real difference is just getting closer to the mic, it's like zooming on a picture
You are right. I have also tested it. In general dynamics "reject more background noise" due to a closer working distance. Many stage/live type dynamic mics are also often hyper-cardioid or super-cardioid , which means more side-rejection - BUT at the cost of increased REAR pickup vs a regular cardioid. It's all about positioning.
@@Tazmanian_Ninjabruh I have to eat my sm58 mic and it’s touching my lips and it still sounds quiet and muffled. I’ve moved it and positioned it every way but it just comes out muffled and quiet
I think I've figured out a contactless way to pick up only your voice and/or wind instrument: Instead of a diaphragm, you use an optical pickup (diode and photodiode) that uses a special light (10,600 nm?) that gets broken by no gas other than the CO2 that you exhale Thursday, April 27, 2023 CE, 01:54 EDT
I love the DB version of the SM 7B. It gives you so much more clean gain than the original. It seemed like when I had the original 7B no matter what I did I couldn't get the gain I needed. I also couldn't hear myself very well with the audio interfaces that I would record with unless I would turn up the headphone gain and that meant I would have to turn up the music and my headphones in order to hear the microphone much clearer. I had a fet head and it was fine for the 7B but it's nice to have a microphone that has better preamps built-in
I used an SM58 for years, but what killed it was that I forgot to turn off the phantom power before plugin it in. Could be that it was worn down, and the phantom power was the enough to trow it over the edge. My SM57 have survived the times I have forgot it though but that mic is used primarily for recording guitar cabs.
@@AudioUniversity Yup. Directly into a Steinberg Ci2+. Not sure what broke as it became very quiet afterwards. I had to yell to get any sound from it and eventually became totally silent. Tried replacing the cable. Bought a new audio interface even. Unlike yours, mine never got banged into the floor.
Durability is Key when performing live every weekend. I have an old SM58 ,I say old cause I bought it used 30 years ago and it is my workhorse... also it has more output than the new ones , yes lot more . I really dont know how old it is but it's a Bad Ass .... Good Show 👍
Great video; really enjoyed it. Driving a lot of the popular dynamics these days (RE20 and SM7B specifically) basically necessitates that Cloudlifter though. Pairing those two really cuts back on how much preamp gain you need to feed the dynamics and makes them a lot easier to work with in the less-than-perfect environments we often find ourselves recording in. I love the RE20 because it's so much more forgiving when you go slightly off-axis. Lets me dodge a lot of flubbed takes because of plosives or whatever.
You don't need a cloudlifter to drive those mics. I've used the ART Tube MP Studio Microphone Preamp, which I got for 30 dollars. Even without the preamp, I've used the focusrite and it's worked just fine with both of those
You can consider the TNT by sE electronics who cost half the price of the cloudfilter. I don't use these kind of mics, but something always surprising me when watching reviews : the need of an external preamp: If these mics are more dedicated to non (fully) treated rooms, increasing the gain that much, doesn't make the mic to pick up too much external noise? A real pros of these mics is their noise reduction due to the size of the diaphragm (for the same reason, some people use shotgun mics). So, are these preamps a misuse of their original purpose? These preamps seems to also increase plausible which sounds logic. Last but not least, I wonder if many users are not placing the mic too close from their mouth to increase the low end effect. Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts.
The amount of gain needed to amplify a mic to a good level really depends on how much headroom your system has. USB powered interfaces don't have the same kind of headroom that outboard Pres have, so they won't require the same amount. Maximum input levels vary from device to device. It also, of course, depends on your application
It would seem that the 'signature' or audio characteristics of a mic could be better indicated by a standardized response graph by frequency & attack responses
Interesting video. I learned a lot more about mics from this video. I use an AT2035 for voice over work in the videos I’m making and really like the warm sound. I also have a Deity shotgun mic that I use on my camera, but ice never liked the result for voice overs. Thanks for opening my ears to this topic.
The AA OC818 is about $1000 so I'm not surprised he didn't drop test it, besides that great video i still don't know everything about audio but its been 4 Years since my mum gave me her NT1-A and when i got it had no clue how to actually use it vs today, i almost bought a new mic because it sounded bad when ever i used it.
True. Many consider both moving coil and ribbon to be “dynamic” microphones. There are also carbon microphones and crystal microphones. Most people who are searching for the difference between dynamic and condenser mics want to know about moving coil and condenser mics. A future video to come!
just wana put this out here. i have an old basicly broken condenser mic from dropping so take that in consideration. they can take some beating but not as much as other microphones iv used.
Why is that the sound quality of this video is so great? Even though he is using very different mics. Is that his room adapted with the foam things to mitigate noise?
This was great presentation thank you! I still have no clue which to get because I'm still learning. But going to watch this a couple more times. I wish I could give 2 thumbs up
Or is the sm58 indestructable? I found one that just was making pop sounds. To be fair, it was covered with yellow grime and probably was 20+ years old
bruh. i subscribed the moment you spoke. please baby jesus tell me you have a tutorial on how to get a voice sounding with great quality like yours, ie compressor, etc etc?
Thanks! Glad you like it. I don’t have a video on it yet, but it’s a great suggestion. I’m using compression and limiting. I really like Fabfilter Pro C-2 for this purpose.
I yelled at a singer once for swinging a SM58 by the cord. Like muted the whole band, stopped practice, and made sure he never wanted to do it again. They're indestructible but no reason to test it.
what mic would you recomend for home recordings (with non treated accoustics) . Is it better to get a dynamic mic? What set up do i need to record with a condenser mic? As you said a dynamic would need more gain so the volume of the recording will be low. Is that a problem?
when i was shopping for a mic years ago, i didnt know much, but i was looking at the "self noise" numbers and settled on an nt1a because it was drastically lower than even more expensive mics. is there a reason for that? is the nt1a just a jem? or am i missing something?
Seems like condenser elements have been getting larger and larger through the years. If smaller elements have less mass, what’s the benefit of going larger?
I'm interested in getting a mic for home recording, mostly for metal vocals and recording acoustic/classical guitar. I was looking at the at2020, however, I have seen the shure sm75 and shure sm58 used for around $80 which in my opinion are amazing steals. However, I am not 100% sure my interface (UAD volt 1) can properly utilize the shure mic's. Is it true that dynamic mic's require more gain in general than condenser mics would? For example, my volt 1 only has a max gain of 55dB, but both the shure sm57/58 require more than this, but the at2020 only requires about 37dB i think..?
The Volt 1 probably has enough preamp gain for recording metal vocals using any of the Shure dynamic mics you've listed. For recording acoustic guitar, I'd recommend a condenser microphone.
@@AudioUniversity thanks for the quick response! I would assume that if I were to buy a fethead or cloud lifter with the sm57, I would be able to do both metal vocals and acoustic/classical guitar?
I went to school for Broadcast Sound Engineering in 2008 and quickly realized I just liked it as a hobby and didn't want it as a job. Anyways I ended up selling all my gear (I miss my RCA 77-DX) and quit paying attention to everything. Its weird coming back. Honestly I am not sure why I even clicked on this video as I know the difference between the 2. But I guess I just wanted to see new gear. Anyways one of the biggest differences I have seen since then is Neumann mics are not the #1 best mics anymore. And even back then they weren't the best really but it was what people wanted most. The other big difference is cheap audio interfaces and Rode gear. Back then Rode was this cheap brand that made everything. None of it was great but it worked. But now it seems like they have found their market and they are not the cheap stuff anymore. Its just kinda weird. Hell they have me considering picking up a PodMic for discord calls and what not. What I really want is an RE20 but I can't justify the price when the podmic sounds as good as it does. Oh also the fact the SM58 is still $99 is crazy. It has been that price since 2009. However I think they went on sale back then for $79 pretty often. What a great microphone.
For electric guitar, the Shure SM57 and Heil PR30 are great. For acoustic, I really liked the Austrian Audio OC818 (single capsule version is OC18) from this video: ruclips.net/video/R8kOp4jYcr4/видео.html
My college teacher showed some of your content in class. Now you’re in my recommended. Huh.
That is the best diagramming of the difference that I have seen. Very excellent and organized presentation.
Thank you, Thomas!
I have an SM58 I found in the basement of a hotel at which I used to work. I checked the serial number and it's from the 1970s. Still works perfectly.
@AaronFigueroa1 It depends on the bullet :D :D
When I volunteered for an afterschool group, we used SM58s. half of them had been used around and by children for decades. Those things pretty much need water damage, extreme heat, or repeated blunt force trauma to break.
Audio University..the best channel for sound engineers..👍👍👍
Thanks, ebor! I’m happy that you think so!
👍
Definitely agree
Agree
I agree ☝️
I'm a singer songwriter who is just getting more into recording my own music, and this was extremely helpful info. Thank you so much!
I believe you. The sound of your voice in this video is excellent, and the level is perfect as compared to many other sound/ audiofile videos on youtube.
Thanks, @B F!
Thank you. We just bought 4 x AT2040 after going through a number of videos including yours
Love these videos. I use them as refreshers to make sure I never forget the basics of my work!
I am pretty experienced with audio engineering, just came for a recap / see if I forgot anything or could learn anything new and I always love a great comparison video. This was probably the actual best video for explaining the differences on a fundamental level and showing the differences in a nuanced way. I'm sure many people listening through their phone speakers won't hear much of a difference but I just hope they can understand that this is a different use of different microphones than usual. It really matters a lot what you start with when recording music that will then be post editted and cleaned up. You may only hear that one mic sounds obviously crisper here... clearly has much more audible super high treble... but that may sound obviously better in this context... but that may not be what you want to use on a dark folk acoustic song snare drum... for example. OR it may be exactly what you want on it to liven it up without changing the magical guitar tone or whatever. It's incredibly important what the intent is. And it's so so important to inform beginners that when in doubt... always record higher fidelity than you may think you need. It is much... much easier to degrade a sound or change a sound to a darker or less dynamic sound than it is to feign or edit something to be "better" than what was captured. If you effectively reduce or eliminate as much mixing as possible when in the "micing" phase... you have done your job well. Mic choice and placement and knowing the intent could result in you barely needing to do anything in the mixing stage if you nail it.
Of course that's almost never the case... but you can get damn good to the point where you only need to do basic mixing later like basic volume or low end roll off for plosives etc. The better it is at the source... is the less of a chance of fucking it up later.
i can hardly finish reading your words😂
@@kelsaxu That says more about you and your lack of attention & comprehension than about anyone else.
I'd like to defend the AT2020! I'll agree that it's not the best general purpose mic but I've found the it works very well for field recording or live/streaming unamplified music when the mics are placed some distance away from the instruments or singers (usually 10-20 feet) so it captures the sound as an audience member would hear it. I've used it for piano, chamber groups, choir, and organ and gotten very good results I've used some other more expensive mics in these settings and haven't really heard much difference. So, I'll continue to take these less expensive mics out in the field rather than risking my more expensive mics! It's not a mic that I would use on a guitar cabinet, drum set or for any close mic setting however.
I totally agree. Audio Technica builds some very fine mics which are competitively priced.
I do not prefer that mic I bought it and was extremely disappointed in comparison to a dynamic sm48. I can see how it could sound good for certain situations, but bottom line that essentially makes this a niche mic.
The AT2020 is also one of the more popular microphones for streamers on Twitch, as it's a very nice sounding mic for just recording voice for relatively cheap
SpectreSoundStudios did a video on the at2020 and put the mic up to a guitar cabinet while playing metal. It actually sounded quite good..
Thanks for the explanation. After watching a few videos explaining the difference, I've learned a dynamic microphone is better for live use, dj gig or maybe live podcast. Condenser for studio recording.
Thank you for stating what I needed to know in such clear terms for us noobs
Most straight forward video on the internet
I don't always drop the mic, but when I do, it's with a Shure SM58.
LMAO!!
Hey Audio University, love your channel, thanks for informative and meticulous content as well as your dedication to help and educate people who are in audio. Wish you all the best and the continous channel growth🙂♥️
Thank you!
I love your channel bro. You are definitely educated in audio. Thank you so much. If I learn anything in audio, it’s definitely you I trust, thanks again for your service.
Thanks, Mike! Glad to help!
You missed one quite important factor, imo, that way too few ppl know and talk about. It is the impulse response, aka the fact that condencer mics have a resonance, because of the tightness of their membranes. The best way to explain it is that the condencer mic capsule essentially is a tiny drum, which has a resonant frequency. Usually this is in some high frequency(2-8khz more or less) , where exactly, depends on the mic. Since most manufacturers do mitigate this resonance, its not a single frequency, but more like an area. But there still is a resonance to it. Mic manufacturers might even call it some fancy nice sounding name(presence, airy highs etc), rather than what it really is.
So yeah.
This is also a big reason why condencer mics for stereo recording are often matched pairs. They essentially match the resonance for these matched pairs.
Thanks for adding this. Very interesting!
Every elastic system has a resonance frequency fam, especially dynamics which often have a very narrow one tuned around the most sensitive part of the ear around 3-4K, it really shows on the FR graphs of pretty much all of them. This also helps make them sound louder (needed because of the very low sensitivity) and it sounds like they're rejecting more background noise (but it's an illusion). This results in a very unnatural mid centric sound, with very little treble and bass only available with the proximity effect (which makes things even less natural and accurate).
They're truly old tech, the only advantage is that they're a simpler and more robust system, but that comes with a lot of trade offs. Their value is way too inflated by """"broadcast""""" """"" radio""""""" """""""for noisy environnements"""""" marketings (which are outright false at that) and should all cost way less than they do
I use condensers exclusively in a bluegrass band. I find that 57/58’s have a huge resonance that want to feed back at 4-6Khz. In my experience, condensers have a much flatter response, and sound much better in an acoustic band. To me, the peaky SM57/58’s work best in an electric band where you need that bump to bring it through the mix. For me, throwing those in with condensers, just cause a bunch of response imbalances that I don’t have even with a mixed variety of condensers.
@@capohd28 I agree sm57/58 have a shrinkwrapped sound which make any large or resonant instrument sound tiny and clear, I never use them. It is a cult of just good enough not great but workhorse tiny clear sound. Acoustic instruments have many subtle overtones, sound of wood, sound of strings, mix of sounds in the air around the instruments that SM57 make tiny and clear, and loses the big and warm hug of a much better mic, Neuman instrument condenser mics for live performance are my favorites. If someone uses SM 57/58 run, unless it's a rock bank of all electric instruments in a loud non subtle environment where fighting to be heard in the storm of sound is the norm. It's worth the money for a great mic that will last a lifetime. If you spend thousands on instruments and then shrink your sound with cheap mikes then why not buy one great mike for your great instrument or voice? I buy used Neumans on eBay and I can love the great vocal instrument sounds for live performance. I played a gig in a Jazz band with a Bosendorfer and the sound guy miked it with SM57's and the constrat between the live real sound of the piano and the playback was so painful to hear. I suggested to stop miking a 100000 dollar instrument with cheap mikes that make it sound like stuffed into a hifiradio and instead replace the mic with condensers and wow the great grand sound of the piano returned, and then I had to mic my violin next to that great sound, this was a live jazz gig in NYC.
Julian was the one who originally convicted me to improve my own sound setup, went from tiny pc speaker and a astro A40 setup to presonus E5xt speakers, audient id4 mk II audio interface and the xm8500 mic (punches well above its weight for its price), excellent video for someone who has limited knowledge of condenser mics,
I have the xm8500 and it's amazing. I use it for all my recordings now, it just has a certain "sound" that suits my voice like no other!!
Respected sir,
Your videos are really helpful for me...
Thanks
Love from INDIA❤❤
I’d honestly recommend this channel, to any musician, podcast, voice actor or anybody else.
Very educating.
Straight to the point.
Very formal
No useless info
And everything worth knowing.
Thank you! I’m glad to read this.
Well said bro
Really gaining knowledge everytime while watching your videos
Glad to hear that! Happy to help! Thank you.
Great video! The sound example with the 4 mics towards the end is one of the best reasons to watch this video.
It makes the difference more visceral to the ear.
Not that I'm going to be able to afford it any time soon, but wow… That OC818 is one Impressive piece of work!
i really like the real time use of other mics, it really helps put whats being explained.
I love dynamic mics for vocal productions but condenser mic works well for certain instruments as well dynamics. But you you really have to understand which mic is best for you, as in the after edit product you've recorded is easier to edit for you. I own a sm57 and a sm7b but I plan to upgrade here soon as well.
Both of those mics are really good. They're the preferred stage mic. Durable, good sound. And not terribly expensive.
@@johnsuggs7828what’s a good mic for recording rap vocals and for people with just quieter voices? Im just a quiet reserved dude and I gotta be eating my SM58 mic just to hear a sound and then frank the gain up to max and it barely comes out crisp or loud. Any tips?
As a singer in a live setting you absolutely need the higher SPL or you start clipping in the red at volume 4 on any decent PA system. Try comparing Neumanns or Alexis tube microphones to the less expensive ones you compared. It’s akin to the difference between a Lamborghini super car and a production corvette. Tubes however seem to work even better in the studio.
Whats spl?
Excellent video, straight forward, yet explaining complex topics relatively well!
Thank you for this comprehensive overview.
But there is one thing I don't understand: Dynamic mics are often said to reject off-axis sound better - like you demonstrated in your video at 04:00. Yet I didn't find any proof that this behaviour has anything to do with the type of transformation from acoustic energy to electric energy. I'd rather suspect it to be a design feature of the individual microphones. Because dynamic mics are more often used in situations which profit in strong off-axis rejection (like live shows, high noise environments, etc) the designers of these microphones may have favored a stronger directivity whereas condenser mics are mostly used in well controlled studio situations in which fidelity (eg. an angle invariant frequency range) is of more importance.
You're right, it depends on each mics polar pattern, but they all mostly behave the same, I've done tons of experiments about this. It's one of the biggest misconception about them
Thank you both for your feedback. I believe I may have bought into this misconception without due diligence. I’ve edited the video to avoid confusion.
Dynamic Mic = Speaker, running in reverse.
Condensor Mic = Capacitor. Easy to remember because of C/C similarity.
Plus, condenser is just another, mostly disused word for capacitor.
Imagine - one day, there will be a mic holder that recognizes the microphone, knows it orientation and polar pattern, knows what you want to record, knows the layout of the environment you are in and adjusts the microphone for you.
One day.
Today, be nice if microphones had their polar pattern printed on them.
Idea for you - do a set of stickers for microphones with their polar pattern on them. Might make a merchusic store revenue for you. I'm donating that idea to you, alas can't afford anything else.
Keep up the great content.
Thanks for the idea, Paul! Much appreciated! Also - I'm glad you are enjoying the content. Thank you for watching!
A lot of microphones do have their polar pattern printed on them, or at least on the data sheet.
@@in.der.welt.sein. Some do, I like the sticker idea though.
Seeing the OC818 as an example feels so good (as an austrian Guy who also likes audio stuff)
I just switched from a rode NT1 to a Shure SM7B and one thing that is very important when selecting a microphone is knowing the room you'll use to record.
When I moved to a different city my home studio became a sterile, flatted wall room, which is very reflective, causing my recordings to sound horrible due to the frequencies that were bouncing back into my mic.
I could no longer play the guitar and sing at the same time without getting too much signal from my acoustic guitar sipping into my recordings. The Shure SM7B fixed that issue by just being... quieter.
What would be the best mic for recording rap vocals?
@@Youngdaggger888 It depends on a myriad of factors.
How loud /reflective is the place you're recording? What type of voice do you have ? How much will you edit the vocal in post? What's your budget? How experienced are you with both recording and editing in post?
as a general rule: If you do not know any of those things, look for a microphone that has a flat response, which will yield a better result when editing the frequencies in post production.
If you have a quiet room that has a lot of furniture or is treated with acoustic panels/foam, I would tend to choose a condenser just because it gives you more details to work in post, if your room, like mine now, is very reflective (sounds bounce back and forth, adding up undesireable reverb), I would choose a decent dynamic mic.
However, budget is very important, if your budget is low, try to find a decent USB microphone and find a quiet place which is not super reflective that you can use to record.
However, remember: Good gear does not make up for bad technique. Improve your singining, recording technique and learn how to edit your audio before spending a lot of money in gear, those first things will improve your end result more than throwing money into studio equipment
Cheers mate!
You have a splendid voice to go with any microphone. Thanks for the education about microphones.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed the video.
Depends on the usage, in an ambient room, take the Dynamic, in a special treated room with zero ambient, U can use a dynamic, or a condenser.
A SM58 sounds a little muffled if you hold it to your mouth (close mic), if a little from your mouth, it sounds way better. You have to find the sweet spot from that MIC. You can learn MIC techniques, close MIC or FOR podcasts I would use a SM7b, problem with this MIC the output is low, and you have to use a very transparent MIC Pré or a TritonAudio FetHead class A Pré amplifier, and maybe a few mods for your kind of voice/ instrument, for the fethead you also need Phantom Power 24 or 48V, just as Condensers 48V from your console or MIC pré. Condensers are not made for close MIC, heck you can even destroy the capsule from the MIC, always look good to the max db's pressures these can handle, these are also very sensitive, a shock mount and a popfilter is necessary. But the sound is much better than a dynamic MIC. I use the best of both worlds, like the Lewitt LCT 440 PURE $220. That's a very low price for a quality Condenser MIC.
So I have a SM58 and I have to be putting my mouth all up in the mic just to hear a sound. I test it at a plethora of ranges but it still sounds the same low, muffled quiet sound. I just rap and speak into the mic pretty much but it’s barely picking my voice up even if I speak up or scream so ion know what to do
You have to try the shoes on to see if they fit! Great video! I wish I could try before I buy.
~🌺
The Shure Condenser sounds so GOOD!
I have a humble Xonar X5 audio interface that allows me to record with studio quality and it only has one mic input which is for dynamic ones. I have it as a backup in case I have a problem with my Blue Yetti. The Blue Yetti is a budget condenser microphone. Since I only record one source, i.e. my voice, I use the cardioid setting with minimum gain and dicreased input on the so that I have to speak closer to the microphone and louder as well. Thus, I diminish background noise and ambient reverberation. If I choose to use a dynamic microphone, I will probably try to reproduce these settings. Thanks for this video.
Excellent comparison and informational video. Clear and well-thought-out delivery.
Pretty simple and accurate video, not falling for the usual memes and myths so it's great.
One thing tho, regarding the polar pattern, comparing an open Cardio condenser to a RE20 is not really fair, as RE are known to be closer to supercardio (it shows on the specs sheets) as they have a special technology that makes their microphone pretty focused and that virtually eliminates the proximity effect (you can pretty clearly see the feedback vents on the mic).
In reality and by rigorously testing it, you'll find that most cardios behave the same way, regardless of the tech especially in real world use and that sometimes some cardio SDCs actually leave dynamics in the dust regarding off axis rejection.
An important thing to note is that background noise rejection is not a thing, it's impossible for a mic to reject background noise unless they have some sort of expander behaviour, which is never the case and would be a nightmare anyway. The feeling of rejection is almost entirely due to 1 - frequency response and 2 - polar pattern, 1 can be easily matched from condenser to dyn (not the other way around) and 2 is not really bound to a certain technology. But in the end what makes a real difference is just getting closer to the mic, it's like zooming on a picture
This is very well-articulated feedback, Leonidas. In fact, I've edited the video a bit to avoid any confusion for future viewers. Thank you!
You are right. I have also tested it. In general dynamics "reject more background noise" due to a closer working distance. Many stage/live type dynamic mics are also often hyper-cardioid or super-cardioid , which means more side-rejection - BUT at the cost of increased REAR pickup vs a regular cardioid.
It's all about positioning.
@@Tazmanian_Ninjabruh I have to eat my sm58 mic and it’s touching my lips and it still sounds quiet and muffled. I’ve moved it and positioned it every way but it just comes out muffled and quiet
I think I've figured out a contactless way to pick up only your voice and/or wind instrument:
Instead of a diaphragm, you use an optical pickup (diode and photodiode) that uses a special light (10,600 nm?) that gets broken by no gas other than the CO2 that you exhale
Thursday, April 27, 2023 CE, 01:54 EDT
at 0:55, a varying capacitance on a charged capacitor will produce a varying voltage, not an electrical current. Voltage = Charge / Capacitance
I love the DB version of the SM 7B. It gives you so much more clean gain than the original. It seemed like when I had the original 7B no matter what I did I couldn't get the gain I needed. I also couldn't hear myself very well with the audio interfaces that I would record with unless I would turn up the headphone gain and that meant I would have to turn up the music and my headphones in order to hear the microphone much clearer. I had a fet head and it was fine for the 7B but it's nice to have a microphone that has better preamps built-in
I used an SM58 for years, but what killed it was that I forgot to turn off the phantom power before plugin it in. Could be that it was worn down, and the phantom power was the enough to trow it over the edge. My SM57 have survived the times I have forgot it though but that mic is used primarily for recording guitar cabs.
Phantom power shouldn't effect a moving coil microphone at all. I'm surprised to hear that. Was the mic connected directly to the preamp/interface?
@@AudioUniversity Yup. Directly into a Steinberg Ci2+. Not sure what broke as it became very quiet afterwards. I had to yell to get any sound from it and eventually became totally silent. Tried replacing the cable. Bought a new audio interface even. Unlike yours, mine never got banged into the floor.
Sad to hear that, Jean. Also astonished, as broken SM58s are a rarity. Thanks for sharing this info though.
That shouldn't have happened. Dynamic mics don't have the circuitry to use phantom power.
I've had a couple of sm58s since 1978.
The price hasn't changed much. Approx £100 then and now!
Durability is Key when performing live every weekend. I have an old SM58 ,I say old cause I bought it used 30 years ago and it is my workhorse... also it has more output than the new ones , yes lot more . I really dont know how old it is but it's a Bad Ass .... Good Show 👍
Your audio from the re20 sounds great, could you show us what processing (eq/compression etc) you do for your audio production?
Great video; really enjoyed it. Driving a lot of the popular dynamics these days (RE20 and SM7B specifically) basically necessitates that Cloudlifter though. Pairing those two really cuts back on how much preamp gain you need to feed the dynamics and makes them a lot easier to work with in the less-than-perfect environments we often find ourselves recording in.
I love the RE20 because it's so much more forgiving when you go slightly off-axis. Lets me dodge a lot of flubbed takes because of plosives or whatever.
You don't need a cloudlifter to drive those mics.
I've used the ART Tube MP Studio Microphone Preamp, which I got for 30 dollars.
Even without the preamp, I've used the focusrite and it's worked just fine with both of those
You can consider the TNT by sE electronics who cost half the price of the cloudfilter.
I don't use these kind of mics, but something always surprising me when watching reviews : the need of an external preamp:
If these mics are more dedicated to non (fully) treated rooms, increasing the gain that much, doesn't make the mic to pick up too much external noise?
A real pros of these mics is their noise reduction due to the size of the diaphragm (for the same reason, some people use shotgun mics). So, are these preamps a misuse of their original purpose? These preamps seems to also increase plausible which sounds logic.
Last but not least, I wonder if many users are not placing the mic too close from their mouth to increase the low end effect. Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts.
huh, out of all commenters, didn't expect to see you. guess we all got some love for good audio!
The amount of gain needed to amplify a mic to a good level really depends on how much headroom your system has. USB powered interfaces don't have the same kind of headroom that outboard Pres have, so they won't require the same amount. Maximum input levels vary from device to device. It also, of course, depends on your application
well done young man! well articulated and information packed... valuable information packed.
Very nice presentation. I think I'll go with the dynamic mic
Hey thanks for the informative audio facts and hands on audio performance great for beginners like me
This is probably the best explanation of anything I have ever heard. I might know too much about microphones now. 😂
Always love a dynamic , oc sm7 is a king of dynamic mic 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
As usual..unique..packed info..Thank you
So basically, only perform a mic drop when you've got a Dynamic mic
Ideally, never perform a mic drop.
Yours seems to work very well and yield an excellent sound
Thanks for this vid I own a sm7b and a akg p220 and I’ve been wondering
Glad I could help, Robert! Thanks for watching.
How are you able to get such clarity in your audio? No background noise, etc.. just clear radio quality voice
Yeah right? I think is not just the damn mic, he is doing a great EQ work behind the scenes. And maybe some noise filtering on his room
Excellent review, Kyle. Thanks for sharing.
Dude, what a cool voice you got. Perfect for a microphone video 👏👏
i still prefer ''condensed mic.'', coz it greatly picks up every details of your voice, unless when you're not a singer.
Good video! Made me make my mind up and get an NT1, thanks !
It would seem that the 'signature' or audio characteristics of a mic could be better indicated by a standardized response graph by frequency & attack responses
This video contains a lot of gems!!✨🙏🏽
Interesting video. I learned a lot more about mics from this video. I use an AT2035 for voice over work in the videos I’m making and really like the warm sound. I also have a Deity shotgun mic that I use on my camera, but ice never liked the result for voice overs. Thanks for opening my ears to this topic.
The AA OC818 is about $1000 so I'm not surprised he didn't drop test it, besides that great video i still don't know everything about audio but its been 4 Years since my mum gave me her NT1-A and when i got it had no clue how to actually use it vs today, i almost bought a new mic because it sounded bad when ever i used it.
Excellent video. However, there definitely is a third type of microphone. The ribbon Mic.
True. Many consider both moving coil and ribbon to be “dynamic” microphones. There are also carbon microphones and crystal microphones. Most people who are searching for the difference between dynamic and condenser mics want to know about moving coil and condenser mics. A future video to come!
just wana put this out here. i have an old basicly broken condenser mic from dropping so take that in consideration. they can take some beating but not as much as other microphones iv used.
I’ll always remember Mr. Willaford he taught me the basics of mic use and singing.
do you have any tips for diy recording, like how to make the best out of built-in microphones on smartphones?
Which would be best as a budget voice actor/over microphone? Keeping in mind most VO is done out of the persons home. TIA
Love your content. Straight to the point
Why is that the sound quality of this video is so great? Even though he is using very different mics. Is that his room adapted with the foam things to mitigate noise?
This video is so helpful! I can't thank you enough 🔥
Great video! I'll def check out some more of your stuff, love the topic
Thanks!
This was great presentation thank you! I still have no clue which to get because I'm still learning. But going to watch this a couple more times. I wish I could give 2 thumbs up
Or is the sm58 indestructable? I found one that just was making pop sounds. To be fair, it was covered with yellow grime and probably was 20+ years old
bruh. i subscribed the moment you spoke. please baby jesus tell me you have a tutorial on how to get a voice sounding with great quality like yours, ie compressor, etc etc?
Thanks! Glad you like it. I don’t have a video on it yet, but it’s a great suggestion. I’m using compression and limiting. I really like Fabfilter Pro C-2 for this purpose.
@@AudioUniversity thanks, keep up the great work and i look forward to great content in the future! thanks again for the hard work!
very well done thanks
Shure SM58 are build to last,
Let me show you...carelessly drop it like it's nothing.
Most singer on stage: *Yes*
I yelled at a singer once for swinging a SM58 by the cord. Like muted the whole band, stopped practice, and made sure he never wanted to do it again.
They're indestructible but no reason to test it.
@@FARLANDER762Forget the mic - I'd fear for damage to the cable and XLR connections!
Thank you very much for the info your tutorials always very helpful
Good bless you
This is a great, and concise video. Thank you 🙂
Thanks, Paul!
I really love the sound on the Rode NT1-A! Do you have any other recommendations before I make a purchase?
That’s my favorite condenser in that price range (out of the mics I own, at least). I think you’ll love it!
I'll go ahead and give it a try. Thank you very much!
Let us know how you like it!
@@superyamchama5659how is it!! i’ve been meaning to get it.
great stuff. Thank you.
Oh man, the EV RE20 sounds so good on voices…
what mic would you recomend for home recordings (with non treated accoustics) . Is it better to get a dynamic mic? What set up do i need to record with a condenser mic? As you said a dynamic would need more gain so the volume of the recording will be low. Is that a problem?
when i was shopping for a mic years ago, i didnt know much, but i was looking at the "self noise" numbers and settled on an nt1a because it was drastically lower than even more expensive mics. is there a reason for that? is the nt1a just a jem? or am i missing something?
Excellent teacher
Thank you, Abdul!
3:19 we’re all thinking the same thing….
Seems like condenser elements have been getting larger and larger through the years. If smaller elements have less mass, what’s the benefit of going larger?
I'm interested in getting a mic for home recording, mostly for metal vocals and recording acoustic/classical guitar. I was looking at the at2020, however, I have seen the shure sm75 and shure sm58 used for around $80 which in my opinion are amazing steals. However, I am not 100% sure my interface (UAD volt 1) can properly utilize the shure mic's. Is it true that dynamic mic's require more gain in general than condenser mics would? For example, my volt 1 only has a max gain of 55dB, but both the shure sm57/58 require more than this, but the at2020 only requires about 37dB i think..?
The Volt 1 probably has enough preamp gain for recording metal vocals using any of the Shure dynamic mics you've listed. For recording acoustic guitar, I'd recommend a condenser microphone.
@@AudioUniversity thanks for the quick response! I would assume that if I were to buy a fethead or cloud lifter with the sm57, I would be able to do both metal vocals and acoustic/classical guitar?
I went to school for Broadcast Sound Engineering in 2008 and quickly realized I just liked it as a hobby and didn't want it as a job. Anyways I ended up selling all my gear (I miss my RCA 77-DX) and quit paying attention to everything. Its weird coming back. Honestly I am not sure why I even clicked on this video as I know the difference between the 2. But I guess I just wanted to see new gear. Anyways one of the biggest differences I have seen since then is Neumann mics are not the #1 best mics anymore. And even back then they weren't the best really but it was what people wanted most. The other big difference is cheap audio interfaces and Rode gear. Back then Rode was this cheap brand that made everything. None of it was great but it worked. But now it seems like they have found their market and they are not the cheap stuff anymore. Its just kinda weird. Hell they have me considering picking up a PodMic for discord calls and what not. What I really want is an RE20 but I can't justify the price when the podmic sounds as good as it does.
Oh also the fact the SM58 is still $99 is crazy. It has been that price since 2009. However I think they went on sale back then for $79 pretty often. What a great microphone.
All this is awesome.
None of this told me what I should go for. It's all academic. Where's the use case guidance?
You can stop being lazy, waiting for someone to tell you, or you can do the research and find out for your self
Iv always used a sm57 (yep old school) and a cheap condenser with no brand but sounded good . Do u have favorite's for guitar ?
For electric guitar, the Shure SM57 and Heil PR30 are great. For acoustic, I really liked the Austrian Audio OC818 (single capsule version is OC18) from this video: ruclips.net/video/R8kOp4jYcr4/видео.html
This is an excellent video! Thank you!
Great ❤ video, Kyle.
Thanks, Emiel333!
Thanks alot Prof 🙏🙏🙏🌸🌸🌸🌸
Glad to help!
Hi, thanks for the video. What kind of mic would you suggest for deeper voice? Condenser or dynamic?
I have the rode nt1a and thinking of upgrading was wondering if you had any recommendations around the Same price?
That’s probably what I’d go with at this price range. Great mic for the money, in my opinion.
What do you want in the new mic? Why are you upgrading?
Well, after watching this I decided that the most important factors for me are two: the look and the cost. 😊
waooooooooooooooooooo, thanku sooooooooooooooooo much for amazing & very importent information, god blessssssssss u brother
Thanks for watching!
Someone said just because something is expensive doesn't mean it's better. Just get what you need.