Preparing Dirona for the North Atlantic Crossing (MV Dirona Channel)
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- A 24-minute narrated video preparing Dirona for the 2,801 nautical mile North Atlantic transit from Newport Rhode Island to Kinsale Ireland. We first show storm plate (clear window protection covers) installation at the dock using the tender as a working platform on the port side. Then we move the SCUBA tanks below and secure them in the lazerette, plug the furnace exhaust to prevent flooding the boiler, install 8 stainless steel deadlights (port light covers), secure the anchor using a stainless steel pin, secure the refrigerator contents for rough sea usage, install the deck fuel bladders in the cockpit and Portuguese bridge, and finally take on 2,000 gallons of diesel and do the "ready for passage" visual survey.
More Information:
-- Additional work done in Newport prior to the passage: mvdirona.com/20...
-- How we manage fuel and the fuel bladders: mvdirona.com/20... and mvdirona.com/20...
This is the best yacht vid I have seen. Tells what reallity is over the walk thoughts. Besides, I have owned half those yacht but always have to stop daydreaming and get back to earning the rent.
Yeah, it's true. There is never enough time for everything.
That was so educational, a tad bit of a transatlantic crossing and how to prepare. Thank you
Thanks for the feedback.
I Love the Thoughfulness and planning that goes into your videos. This has taught me quite a few helpful pointers, as I too will become a Yacht Operator.
Thanks for the feedback on the videos.
What a great boat. A machine built for functionality has a a beauty all its own.
We'll take strong over beauty all day long and we're kind of partial to a vaguely commercial look.
I certainly agree with this comment I love the functionality and I am also partial to the commercial look! What a great vessel!
Really nice, everything has its place aboard your boat, electronics and electrical lay out is a electrical engineering feat! can’t understand the 41 miserable souls who put thumbs down?
Fascinating video! Thanks for sharing!
And I couldn’t help but keep thinking “Hey! It’s Robert Plant!!!”
Now to watch the videos of the crossing.....
Most of our ocean crossings where great but we made the North Atlantic crossing at a less favorable time of the year so we saw some weather. Nothing dangerous but it was quite rough: ruclips.net/video/guEnTp2a6Sc/видео.html
Billy Connolly putting the window cover on, nice 😉
I was thinking it was Brian May, but yeah, I see Billy there.
Great video to showcase how much better suited sailboats are for blue water crossings. Fuel bladders, storm covers, oh boy. Give me an equivalent length sailboat any day of the week.
It is true that more sailboats than powerboats make the trip but, having crossed every ocean in this boat, there are some upsides in comfort. In storm conditions, it's really nice to be inside a warm and dry pilot house.
@@MVDirona Oh, for sure and everybody to their own of course. You guys do an amazing job and your choice of vessel clearly works for you.
Personally, I tried to love powered boats and never managed to. There's magic to the moment you switch off an engine and the wind takes over. I love how a boat just tenses and relaxes at the same time.
And of course, there are very nice sailboats available with a pilot house. ;)
you are not a kid ,but you move around like ONE !!!!!! always believe a big boat is the best way to keep one fit !!!!! it takes TONs of calories keep a yacht in good shape !!!
I agree that, if you take care of your own boat, it does take some activity. Potentially an even more important factor is going to new places and seeing new things tends to make you more active both mentally and physically.
I sure as hell am a kid, whenever I’m on a ship, I’ll be walking around the whole thing but mostly at the bow or stern. Sound of the stern’s volume is highly increased from the engine.
I'm the same way when touring ships and, over the years, have toured some very interesting examples:
*Oil Tanker: mvdirona.com/2019/09/oil-tanker-tour/
*Scalloper: mvdirona.com/2016/11/on-board-a-canadian-scalloper/
*Container Ship: mvdirona.com/2012/06/on-board-the-hanjin-oslo/
*Cruise Ship: mvdirona.com/2016/02/behind-the-scenes-on-the-westerdam-2/
*Steamship: mvdirona.com/2019/07/historic-steamship-tour/
*Nuclear Submarine: mvdirona.com/2016/05/uss-california-distinguished-visitor-embark/
*Cable Layer: perspectives.mvdirona.com/2017/01/cs-responder-trans-oceanic-cable-layer/
*Ice Breaker: mvdirona.com/2015/01/on-board-the-aurora-australis/
*Arctic Research Vessel: mvdirona.com/2015/10/on-board-the-marion-dufresne/
Just subscribed! I love watching nordhavns in their element, one day I hope to have a nordhavn of my own! Coming from a guy that has no experience in owning a boat, I have to say that nordhavn yachts are the best trawlers out there, and that's saying a lot... Lol love your videos, keep up the good work!
I am amazed that you could easily find the screws for the windows! Thank you for the video. Would love seeing your travels on the seas.
Parts of the North Atlantic crossing is in this video: ruclips.net/video/guEnTp2a6Sc/видео.html. It's a bit rough but you can find lots of relaxing ocean crossings up at: ruclips.net/user/mvdirona.
Great organization and video. And a sparkling clean lazz! Bravo!
Really enjoy this video👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 thank you for taking the time to post it. Safe journey
Hey guys, great boat and interesting video. I like your faith in the crane ! Keep living the dream.
Great content, well narrated. Thanks for sharing.
Great stuff...I love videos like this...Thank you
I'm struck by the passion with which you pursue your dream. This is the second video of yours I've seen. The mind boggles at what effect your impressive knowledge and self-preservation skills would have if they were refocused from self-indulgence to more selfless pursuits.
I work full time as an engineer but I get paid for that so it probably doesn't qualify as selfless :-). This is my day job: ruclips.net/video/AyOAjFNPAbA/видео.html.
Very interesting video, thanks for sharing.
Thanks for the feedback. Glad you enjoyed it.
Well done. I enjoyed your video and even learned a bit. Thank you.
Thank you. Another good informative video.
That’s incredible! Thanks for sharing.
People don't understand the difference between crossing the southern Atlantic and the northern Atlantic!!. The two of you ARE LEGENDS!!!
We have crossed both the North Atlantic and the South Atlantic and, that small sample, strongly agrees with your assessment. The North Atlantic can pack a punch. Admittedly our timing for the South Atlantic crossing was more careful since it was a long 3650 nautical miles so they aren't directly comparable but the northern one was definitely more challenging from a weather perspective.
You two have such a great aura! I love listening and learning from you both! We hope to buy a Nordhavn after I retire and go up and down E and W coasts! More videos please! I’ve watched this one at least 4 times!😳😎😎😎👊👊👊
Good push. We'll get to work on getting another video posted.
Thanks for a 'Reality Tube' on long distance voyaging. This is vital information for would-be boaters to come in contact with. Shipbuilder's crossing videos don't show the steps needed to fully secure windows at the cost of natural lighting and ventilation. What with the move to bigger windows at each level, I have been interested in just this detail.
You nailed it. All decisions in boat buildings are compromises. Small windows are better at sea but you mostly aren't at sea. Large windows are wonderful most of the time but aren't safe in extreme conditions. The solutions I like best are very thick windows or protection with storm plates.
A broken window in storm conditions could end it all so it's worth being careful.
what a nice video (for a skipper like me , i guess !!) what a nice toy is that little ship !
Very interesting and informative video. The smallest ship I crossed the Atlantic on was the Queen Mary. Hope you had a good one!
There is a lot to be said for the Queen Mary approach. When taking on weather, size really does matter. Small boats put control in your hands, give us flexibility to go where we want to go when we want to go there but the weather is a downside risk we need to keep an eye on. We have crossed oceans many times but this one was rougher than usual: ruclips.net/video/guEnTp2a6Sc/видео.html.
I'll post the changes we made as a consequence of that trip sometime this week or next to mvdirona.com. We think these engineering changes are sufficient to make the weather we saw on our North Atlantic crossing a non-issues.
Interesting to see the fuel bladders. I've been running the numbers on taking a Ranger Tug across the Tasman Sea using a cockpit fuel bladder. Nice to see someone else using them also. You guys are a masterclass in open ocean trawling. Keep up the great work. Thanks for the content.
Thanks for the feedback. A great source for fuel bladders is ATL with a broad selection of standard sizes and they also do custom designs. Our experience is that the key to a stable bladder is fully filling it. We have had ours out in heavy weather and they never shifted. As an example of how full we aim to get it, we have a picture of me standing on one where I'm hard sinking in at all. Good luck with your project.
Looks great. Safe travels. W
Absolutely love all the prep work. Thank you so much for making this video!!!!
Thanks.
Just come across your video I subscribed because I'm thinking about getting one myself as there is only 2of us. We would like to stick around and enjoy your everyday experiences have a nice trip.
That's the way we travel as well Billy. Just the two of us.
you are my new heros !! real skippers ..... not a mickey mouse bayside captain !! impressive !!
Hoping all is well. Noticing the weather for crossing not good !
Your right. There is currently a hurricane approaching Kinsale Ireland (where we made landfall after our North Atlantic crossing) and, even where we are currently are in Scotland (mvdirona.com) we have been seeing some big barometer swings.
What a great video! Very interesting. Thanks for sharing that. Keep em coming.
Thanks.
Never realized Robert PlNt went cruising.😁
So dude what rock band did you play in during the 1980s you look like a famous rock star from That time have an excellent day
Nice job nice practical boat ..
Did anyone else think that the first words out of his mouth would be, "great scott Marty!, if we don't fix the time machine we'll never get back to the future."
Interesting. I always just assumed if your boat couldnt hold enough fuel you couldnt go. I didnt even think about carrying extra fuel bladders! learned alot, thanks for sharing!
It's a common trick from the aircraft sector where short distance planes need to rarely need to do a larger hop. The military is another frequent user where they often need to store fuel at temporary locations. Another popular use of fuel bladders is in high speed sports fishers that need to run out a hundred miles or so to get out past the continental shelf on the US east coast. These are fuel hungry boats running at 20 and sometimes even beyond 30 kts so bladders are frequently used.
That boat looks top heavy.
The boat goes down 6' 7" below the surface and it weighs 55 tons so it's more stable than it looks. It meets CE Category All Oceans. Generally it's a pretty solid ocean boat (for it's size).
Awesome videos .. I subscribed :)
Do you still travel as much with diesel over $5 a gallon now!! I just love all your technical explanations!
You're right it is getting expensive to fuel a boat but we never found diesel to be one of the dominant costs. Even 5 years ago we were paying nearly $7/gal in some locations (e.g. Northern Australia) and we wish it were lower but it was never even close to our biggest cost.
When operating a boat at displacement speeds, fuel burn can be kept relatively small. Lower costs would definitely help but world cruising is still practical at higher fuel costs.
Great stuff. I'm glad that you guys took the time to show us how you prep your boat for long passages... I especially love the utilization of your fuel bladder for extra fuel for those far away excursion. I think that that's a great idea. Good for you guys! Furthermore, I would like to take this opportunity to state that I too would love to know, if you don't mind of course, how you transfer the fuel to your main tanks. I've visited the web site in which sells those bladders and seen that they have electrical powered fuel fill hoses and wonder if that's what you guys use?
Thanks for the comment Robert. We use a cool system where a passive hose is cam locked onto a permanently installed bulkhead fitting on one end and the fuel bladders on the other. Using the fuel manifold in the engine room, I can just pump the fuel below without going out side. There is a picture of the fuel transfer system in this article: mvdirona.com/2013/12/dirona-fuel-manifold/
I've outlined a bit more detail on the transfer process and advantages here: mvdirona.com/2017/10/preparing-dirona-for-the-north-atlantic-crossing/#comment-214735
Absolutely brilliant video's you both do,I have a narrow boat that I travel round the inland canal system in and my favourite part of my trips are crossing tidal rivers and the Wash Boston to the Fens on a calm day of course.Thanks again and keep the video's coming.
Thanks Les. We do plan to post another video this weekend on a night time pass through the Brunswick lock in Liverpool.
First Vid I found, nice. only issue I'd have is burying all the O2 tanks so far out of reach, maybe keep one easily accessible for emergency use, to check hull or prop in case of an open water strike.Of course hoping it's never required
Those SCUBA tanks compressed air rather than O2 -- roughly 20% oxygen. They looked difficult to get out of the laz but the large stacks of boxes slide out line a puzzle and just two stacks need to be moved. I can have a tank out in under 60 seconds so it's really not much of a hassle. But, you are right, it's not as easy as when they are up on deck where we normally keep them. The largest part of the time of getting the tanks out of the storage location down below is reattaching the hold down straps that retain them but, even that is only 3 or 4 minutes.
Right on, just looked on Vid like it would have been difficult to get to under duress, Checking out other MV vids, honestly would like to have seen more passage Vids, the gale stuff was great, but seeing life aboard during them, cooking, living, on watch.
Wishing you clear skies and calm seas ahead
Life underway is almost always boring. Just business as usual with my day job, meals, the "excitement" of a boat passing every few days or perhaps seeing some bit of debris in the water. Not much going on but, if you are interested, we can do a video on life underway. We'll plan to do that Michael.
It would be my luck to drop either a screw, screwdriver, or the storm plate into the water.
I do have a few extra screws but haven't needed them yet. Someday I probably will drop a screwdriver.
Fantastic videos. I'm hooked. Please consider getting a better microphone system for videos so I can hear you and the camera holder equally as well. I don't want to miss a word of the knowledge and experience you share please.
We know you are right about the microphone and wind noise and will work to improve the sound quality in future videos.
this is really cool to see the process of running a boat.
Thanks for the feedback on the video.
How do you transfer the fuel from a bladder to the engine. Thanks for the interesting video.
It's a pretty cool set up where, before leaving, a custom made hose is attached to each bladder by cam lock fittings and then connected to the aft bulkead also by cam locks. Then when it's time to transfer the fuel we just adjust the fuel manifold in the engine room to "Fuel Bladders" and do the transfer without going outside. Much more detail in this posting: mvdirona.com/2013/12/dirona-fuel-manifold/.
@@MVDirona what is your total on board fuel, l was guessing 3,400 usg?
Below decks we carry 1,750 US gallons and, when fully loaded with deck fuel, can carry 2,710 USG.
I will let James captain my ship anytime! Cool Dude!!
Yes I was also wondering how you transfer your fuel from your bladder. What a great idea. I've never seen fuel bladders before now.
The fuel bladders are connected to a bulkhead fitting via short fuel hoses with cam lock fittings. There is a fuel transfer pump inside the boat that is responsible for pumping fuel between tanks. From inside the boat, the fuel can be transferred from the bladders into the tanks below. More details on the process here: mvdirona.com/2012/12/fuel-for-the-crossing/.
Long range fishing on a smaller boat people will head out on a loop drop a bladder with a beacon in the ocean do your loop , refuel load the bladder and head back in
I hadn't heard of this before but I suppose diesel is lighter than water so it would float and so it would work. Makes sense.
So impressed with your videos. Thank you. I am particularly impressed with the content. I am curious how you transfer fuel from the bladders and what ranges you achieve with and without their use. It looks like the bladder systems according not for 800 additional gallons of fuel for transit. Love to see some of your thoughts on fuel management, transfer, etc. Thanks for the great content!
The fuel capacity of the boat is 1,750 gallons below deck and 2,710 when carrying all it can. The furthest ocean crossing we have ever done is 3,800 nautical miles and the boat range with reserve is just over 4,000 nautical miles with deck fuel. Just using the built in fuel tanks, the range is 2,500 nautical miles.
Fuel transfer is a super simple arrangement that doesn't even require going outside or opening up the tank deck fittings and possibly getting water in the fuel. We have a bulkhead cam lock fitting. We just snap on the hose at the bulk head and snap the other side of the hose in a cam lock fitting on the fuel tank. When the tanks are hooked up like this, they can be pumped out by opening a valve in the engine room and turning on the fuel transfer pump. The same pump that transfers fuel around in the boat is also used to transfer fuel from the bladders to the main tanks.
You can find a picture of the fuel manifold and controls here: mvdirona.com/2013/12/dirona-fuel-manifold/
Advantages of this approach:
*The tanks are drawn and all the fuel is sucked out making them very light and easy to fold up.
*No water can get in the fuel
*All fuel is filter prior to leaving the bladders and being brought down below for storage in the main tanks
*No need to go outside and fuel can be pumped in rough water without risk to personal or the fuel load
We have a nice fuel transfer system for the bladder fuel where we connect a cam to a permanent fitting on the bulkhead via a short hose section to a cam lock on the bladder tanks. When it is time to pump the fuel, the standard fuel transfer pump moves the fuel from the bladder, through the transfer filter (25 micron RACOR FPO-10), and then is directed into one of the main tanks. This has the advantage of allowing fuel to be pumped with nobody outside, doesn’t require the tank filler to be open to water ingress, filters all fuel as it leaves the bladders, and allows the bladders to be pumped completely dry so they are light and easy to handle.
When fueling the main tanks, the fuel is brought in directly. We filter all fuel that is transferred from the main tanks to the day tank (wing engine) or the supply tank (all other engines) using the same 25 micron RACOR FPO-10) transfer filter and high capacity fuel pump.
If you are interested, there is a lot more information on the fuel management and transfer systems used on Dirona here: mvdirona.com/2013/12/dirona-fuel-manifold/
Coffey Beans ii
When you were handling the storm covers for the side windows, i thought if they had a handle it would be easier. If it slips you have to get the scuba gear out.
I've considered using the suction holders used to install heavy glass plates in buildings. Having a handle would make handling those big, heavy plates much easier. I'll have to come up with something.
Y'all are so blessed to joy coursing across the ocean this way.... I've loved large boats as long as I can remember, but my wife of 40+ years is as scared of water as I am heights...LOL. I got her in a 14 foot fishing boat out on a small lake one time. All was go until the motor failed and the wind kicked up. I tried to paddle the boat back to shore but the wind was blowing us into the middle of the inland lake. She was freaking out. A couple of guys in a canoe towed to a near by dock and gave me a ride to get my truck and trailer. That next day the boat was sold!!! LOL... But I use to get out on out big old Lake Michigan on a friends 30 foot charter boat when ever the chance came my way... But no more physically able to do it. but at my age riding my 3 wheel motorcycle now and then is fun enough...LOL,LOL.. Her and I have ridden motorcycle for 38 years together. But she has always had to ride her own Harley which she's in love with...LOL...
Oh well I've rambled on enough. Have fun, be safe, and most of all be blessed as y'all cross the ocean and your time in Ireland... May the Good LORD bring y'all into safe harbors...
I'll be laying here watching for your vlog updates... BBE...
I'm not sure motorcycles are safer than long range cruisers but it's super hard to have an interesting life without accepting some risk.
We're currently enjoying a nice slow run south through Scotland's Caledonian Canal: mvdirona.com
Nice boat, but why do you not use a sailboat for such long distances?
It would save loads of fuel...
We chose the boat focused on it being able to cross an ocean but not focused on that being the primary usage. Most of the time we're exploring new countries and near land. It certainly would be easy to get a sailboat that would do what do. In fact, when looking at ocean capable boats, the selection of sailboats is far broader. But, not everyone wants to go sailing.
@@MVDirona Thank you. I understand that if you do not like sailing that is a comfortable ride in such a quite big boat. may be you said in your video, but my english is not quite good. Do you have a backup engine if the main engine has a failure? And isn´t it quite stressful to have 24/7 hours the engine running?
Although if you are a engineer perhaps you like that sound ;-)
You can hear it but it's not that loud and we don't really notice it. The boat motion sometimes can make sleep more difficult but the engine doesn't seem to bother us.
We do have a backup engine. It's a 40 HP lugger that can move the boat at about 4 kts so not fast but it will get you there.
Wish you mentioned how much all of that fuel cost!
It's been awhile so I don't have the exact number but I suspect it will have been around $5,000. As you know, the price of fuel is much more in other parts of the world and, just filling the boat tanks without bladders in Australia cost over $7,0000. It can get pricey but it doesn't happen often. We have only filled the tanks twice this year and both times they weren't that low (over 1/3).
Nice video. How do you transfer fuel out of the bladders to present to the engine?
The transfer system is a fairly nice setup that avoids having the fuel tanks open to the weather or there being any risk of a spill. Nobody even has to be outside. There is a camlock connection on the bulkhead and on each bladder. A short hose connects the bladder to the bulkhead connection. Once there is space in the below decks tanks, we open the safety valve on the tank and then use the fuel transfer pump on the boat (it's use to move fuel around between tanks or to filter fuel in a given tank) to transfer the fuel from the bladder to the tank. This allows a risk from transfer and the bladder can be vacuumed down flat so it's totally empty and all fuel is filtered before it's put below decks as part of this process.
@@MVDirona very nice setup indeed. I always enjoy hearing about long haul journeys like this and the mechanics and prep that goes into them!
Getting small boats able to comfortably cover long distances takes a bit of work and thought but, clearly, starting out with a well designed and well thought out boat is crucial.
If you guys have a drone it would be amazing to see some aerial footage of parts of your crossing.
love your videos by the way!!
I really learned a lot thank you. He explains really good what he does.
Thanks.
It is probably a dumb question but aren't those bladders dangerous because of fire hazard?
The flashpoint on diesel makes it far safer than gasoline but, if a fire develops on the boat and it gets hot, the bladders definitely could burn. Its similar to the boats built in fuel tanks. Below deck, there is 1,750 gallons of diesel housed in a fiberglass. Should the fiberglass start to burn for some other reasons, the diesel will support the resultant fire. The lesson is, on any boat but especially on a fiberglass boat, don't let fires start and fight them early and effectively. Once out of control, the boat will be lost.
good luck and be safe , wacthing from kuwait 😉
Hello in Kuwait. We've long wanted to visit the Persian Gulf by boat but unfortunately, there is too much pirate activity ranging 100s of miles off the Somali coast and so, at least for us, it's a higher risk trip than we want to make.
Wonderful video. I may have missed it, but do you use the bladder fuel first to free up deck space?
We do move the fuel from the bladders down below as soon as we can. It does free up deck space but the primary reason we move the fuel down below is that is the most stable configuration for the boat. Just the below deck fuel load weighs more than 5 tons. For stability reasons, we want this weight as low in the boat as possible. So, as soon as there is space below, we pump the bladders empty, clean them up, and put them away. If you are interested in more details: mvdirona.com/2019/03/deck-fuel-and-vessel-stability/.
why wouldn't the port hole covers go on the outside to protect the windows?
Your right that, in many ways, they would be better on the outside. Either inside or outside, the protect the boat from flooding but, on the outside, they protect the window as well. Presumably they are attached on the inside because they are so much easier to install there and they can provide the same last line of defense against flooding in either position.
I've had a little boating experience on friends boats and always enjoyed it---but I've never dreamed or wanted to own a boat until recently watching your Dirona videos.
PS, I was fascinated by the fuel bladders for long voyages. Really interesting as I only know about aviation applications. How do you pump into the tanks? Do you cross pump - ie run port tank low then pump starboard bladder into port tank to maintain trim?
Jjaus, we have a fairly simple fuel transfer system for the bladder fuel where we connect a cam to a permanent fitting on the bulkhead via a short hose section to a cam lock on the bladder tanks. When it is time to pump the fuel, the standard fuel transfer pump moves the fuel from the bladder, through the transfer filter (25 micron RACOR FPO-10), and then is directed into one of the main tanks. This has the advantage of allowing fuel to be pumped with nobody outside, doesn’t require the tank filler to be open to water ingress, filters all fuel as it leaves the bladders, and allows the bladders to be pumped completely dry so they are light and easy to handle.
When fueling the main tanks, the fuel is brought in directly. We filter all fuel that is transferred from the main tanks to the day tank (wing engine) or the supply tank (all other engines) using the same 25 micron RACOR FPO-10) transfer filter and high capacity fuel pump.
When transferring fuel we pump from the left side bladder to the left side tank and the same on the right side. This keeps the fuel on the same side so the fuel movement doesn't affect trim. The stern just rises slightly.
If you are interested, there is a lot more information on the fuel management and transfer systems used on Dirona here: mvdirona.com/2013/12/dirona-fuel-manifold/
Ahh, makes sense. Will read your link tomorrow (sans red wine, it's Sat night here and almost bed time). We're planning buying a Prestige 550 fly and the CE rating is B. If we want to motor from EU to Carribean via N America, is it worth all the hassle and money or paying to transport it, then fly over? So many variables and new skills needed for trans-oceanic voyages. We are frankly too scared to motor from Australia to Europe through all the piracy zones, so have decided our adventure will begin somewhere in the Med.
Like you, we won't go anywhere near to any reported pirate activity. Never within 100s of miles. There are routes from Australia to North America that stay away from all pirate activity but it will force you to round South Africa which requires care with weather. We've done it and you can get lots of detail on the trip up at: mvdirona.com/Trips/indianocean2015/IndianOcean1.html. This links shows the Indian Ocean crossing but you can see the full trip by moving the map out to show the world and selecting the leg you wish to see in more detail.
Certainly starting in the med is an easier plan and, generally, the run between Australia and North America is a lot of open ocean time.
maybe i'm not appreciating the fasteners, but heavy plexi for water that could break windows, held on by 4 screws for each window ? that seems light.
They are held on by 4 1/4" machine screws which will take several tons of force but you are right that water is incredibly powerful. If bigger fastners where an option, I probably would have taken it.
Most enjoyable video--thankyou
Thanks for the feedback.
i thought these nordhavns can do that distance on internal tanks only?
That's an important point A Nordhavn 52 can go anywhere in the world and cross any ocean but you don't have complete flexibility on routing. Fuel allows different routes, higher speed, or opens more options.
The most important point to keep in mind is that most published range data you see is wildly optimistic. Ocean swell tends to reduce fuel economy greatly. As part of our boats original commisioning, John Deere engineers where on board and they did a two way (both directions) fuel economy test at 100 RPM increments. Using this data, our range with a 10% reserve was around 1,400 nautical miles at wide open throttle of 9.5 kts, 3,790nm at 6.5 kts, 4,500nm at 6kts, and an incredible 6,770nm at 5kts.
Clearly you don't need more than 4,500 nautical mile range but ocean conditions are very different and we've learned our range is 2,500 nautical miles. This is excellent but there are times when you might want more. With deck fuel, our range is 4,000 nautical miles. The trip you were asking about was Newport Rhode Island to Kinsale Ireland which is just under 3,000 nautical miles. That run, if made directly does need external fuel.
Even though we don't need deck fuel for runs of up to 2,500 miles, as soon as we get above about 2,000 nautical miles, we'll probably fill at least one deck tank to offer more flexibility. More data on these decisions at: mvdirona.com/2017/04/fuel-option-value-speed-safety/.
Thorough preparation is the key to travel success! Fine!
I agree. And, when doing longer open ocean crossings, choosing a good weather window is even more important.
No kidding wen they say (baton down the hatches).
Just curious and perhaps someone can answer this, from what I understand the Atlantic ocean can produce massive storms and high seas. This particular vessel seems a bit small for trans-Atlantic ocean voyages, how does it brave the high seas and storms that it will invariably run up against ?
Weather can be a problem so ocean crossings are best done during the calmest part of the year. Normally that works pretty well. Here's a video of some of what we saw in the North Atlantic -- its rough but not dangerously so: ruclips.net/video/guEnTp2a6Sc/видео.html
Great video. I have seen the fuel bladders used before on old DC3's in the Canadian Arctic to get fuel to remote locations.
Yes, fuel bladders are used frequently to extend the range of small aircraft. It's a nice solution and there are a lot of different applications: atlinc.com/rangeextender.html.
We used a 2500 gal bladder on the minesweeper I was on from Long Beach CA to Pearl Harbor during Vietnam.
If I calculated correctly, you took a total 2700 gallons of fuel. That's more than 10 thousand liters. According to the specifications of your boat, that's almost two distances you had to go. Why so much? How much you used from coast to coast?
There are two things going on. The first is manufacturer specifications are usually measures of boat range in flat water and real ocean conditions are remarkably worse. The real world range for our boat at more than 7 kts is 2,500 nautical miles. If you are willing to run much slower, it might be able to be stretched out to the full 3,000 nautical miles we needed to cover. It would be cutting it very close and we wouldn't be willing to do more than 2,500 nautical miles our selves.
The second issue is we like having more fuel on board to allow faster crossing speed or deal with mechanical problems that increase fuel burn. As an example, we used less than 1/2 of our tender fuel exploring up the Brisbane river in Australia. We bent the problem which limited our top speed a bit but otherwise didn't seem to be a problem. When we were part way back, we learned that our fuel burn with a slightly bent prop was 30% worse than normal and we didn't have the fuel for the full return trip. There were lots of ways to solve that particular problem on the way back into Brisbane but there wouldn't be in middle of an ocean crossing. We like having more fuel than we need when off shore in a small boat.
Very informational video! I have to ask....how many port side pieces of plexiglass have you dropped while doing the port side from the tender?...lol
I haven't lost one yet but enough people have argued that just turning the boat around in the slip is probably faster and is definitely easier. We may just give in to low tech solutions and declare that the new standard operating procedure :-).
very nice boat brother...........:o)
I would cross the ocean with that guy!!!
Great video..... really enjoyed it. Will soon be marketing a boat yard in Wexford. Let me know if you happen to have any interest.
How do you manage drawdown of the bladders? Fill the main tanks several times or wait till you can drop the entire stern bladder contents into each tank at one time? How do you transfer the fuel? How do the full bladders affect your stability?
Good question. We run until we have room below decks to bring a full bladder down. Once there is room to bring one down, we do it.
The bladder pump down is super easy. There is a cam lock fitting on the bulkhead so pump down just requires plugging in the hose and, once that done, the tank can be pumped down without going outside. It's transferred by the central fuel transfer pump (same pump used for moving fuel between other fuel tanks) with the nice side effects of: 1) all fuel is filtered on the way below, 2) there is no chance of water ingress or fuel spills, and 3) don't need pumps outside etc.
I've posted the fuel bladder stability data below but the short answer is it can still pass ISO Category A All Oceans when running with full bladders: mvdirona.com/2019/03/deck-fuel-and-vessel-stability/
Any trapped moisture problem between windows and storm plates?
No, it's not been a problem. The storm plates are held 1/4" off the main window so water doesn't collect and there is good air flow to allow drying between the windows after a storm..
My frind amigo you have a lot gasolina onboard.yur driving from America tu iriland no.Please be verrie careful no.Ok a dios amigos.👍
It's diesel rather than gasoline so not nearly as dangerous. Diesel has a much lower flash point and is much safer in storage than gasoline. The diesel is unlikely to be the cause of a problem but, you are correct, if there was an on board fire it could out of control faster with more fuel.
Very well done video !thanks
I liked it but can’t understand how you fix the storm catcher plexiglass??
The permanent window frames in the boat have 1/4" threads and cap screws run through holes in the plexiglass storm plates into the permanent sockets.
Hey, I had to buy ten litres on Friday.
I have only needed to buy fuel twice this year. Admittedly each was more than 10 liters :-).
Maybe you have answered this in the past but what is your sea knowledge background? Is it all self learned?
Mostly self learned. We cruised Washing and British Columbia for 10 years in our previous boat and wrote a cruising guide and magazine articles. We ended up running up 4,100 hours on it during that time so we boated just about anytime we were not working. After that we took progressively longer off shore trips first going directly offshore from Seattle to South East Alaska (5 days) and then the next year doing the direct run to Prince William Sound Alaska (7 days). Lots more up at our web site: mvdirona.com/maps.
I would rather sail and not have all the fuel on the deck.
Yes, sail is a very common choice. Another alternative is to take a routing that doesn't require deck fuel. The North Atlantic can be crossed in shorter hops where deck fuel is not needed.
Fuel bills range all over the place. The US, South Africa, and Ireland are remarkably inexpensive. The US was down below $3.00 per gallon and Ireland was below 0.50 euros. Some places are super expensive. St. Helena was up over $7 per gallon. Knowing that St Helena was super expensive we filled the fuel bladders in Cape Town even though it was only 1,700 nautical miles to St. Helena. That allowed us to not need much fuel in St. Helena for the 3,800 nautical mile run to Barbados.
We spent 1 year and 7 months in Australia so we're super familiar with your diesel prices and have spent close to $7k more than once. GREAT country, great scenery, great people, but on the high side for fuel costs.
We run on waste vege oil, its an alternative to diesel and a significant cost reducer, when we fill with marina diesel from empty to full in Australia we can pay $27,000 alternatively if fill the same amount with vege oil (identical range, slight mod to main engine to run this) we pay $4,480, I love the ability to start an engine and cruise to where you want at a speed of your choosing but the fuel bill can be a downer...
50% off fuel would be nice. You do need to be super careful on fuel filtration and fuel stabilization if you store it for longer periods when using vegetable oil.
0:30 I see You don't have a flopper stopper on the starboard side. Is one flopper stopper on the port side as effective as when there are two, or is there a difference, and if so, is there a big difference?
There is a flopper stopper on both sides of the boat but we frequently only use one. A single flopper stopper seems to have about 70% of the anti-roll forces as using two. I suspect in the limit when it's really rough 2 floppers is 2 about twice as effective as a single flopper stopper. But, in more mild conditions, one is very effective and dome boats elect to only install one.
So lucky it’s 4 years ago…. The diesel is more expensive than the ship 🚢 now
Not there yet but fuel is getting expensive.
How do you transfer fuel from bladders to tanks
The fuel bladders can be connected to a bulkhead fitting via short fuel hoses with cam lock fittings. There is a fuel transfer pump inside the boat that is responsible for pumping fuel between tanks. From inside the boat, the fuel can be transferred from the bladders into the tanks below. More details on the process here: mvdirona.com/2012/12/fuel-for-the-crossing/.
This guy is my spirit animal 🤙
Great insight and education, thank you
Why in the name of sanity didn't you just move the boat to the empty dock opposite? Five minutes and you would be done.
Jjaus asked why used the tender as a work platform to install the storm plates on the port side rather than just turning the boat around to put the other side at the dock. We have done both in the past and both work fine. Operating from the crane brings a bit more risk of a mistake but it's also slightly faster. I use the crane as a work platform to clean and wax the back of the stack and for a few other service items where I've not found an alternative and, since that worked well, we end up using it for other jobs where there are alternatives.
Look, I don't know as much as you guys, but as an observer, to untie the tender, organise the davit, hook the cables, lift it and swing it, get in the tender, lower, do the job(s), then undo all the former steps as opposed to just moving the boat a couple of metres, seems like a faff. I dislike spending more time than necessary for any tedious task.
I 100% agree and that is exactly the criteria we use to make the decision: which is faster? My take was unhooking the power, dropping all the lines, swinging the boat around, installing the storm plates and then doing it again to put it back was more work. It's not a huge difference either way but that was my take.
Arguably only switching it around once and leaving it with the walkway out would have been fine and would avoid moving the boat twice but the Marina wasn't really fully open so they have no power on the dock. It has to come from the shore side so stern to is more likely to make it to the power connection. An extension cord would have solved that but we were also planning to fuel first thing the next day and it's easier to fill the forward bladder with the starboard side walkway to the dock.
Those were the factors that influenced the decision but admittedly I didn't think that hard about it.
@@MVDirona bullshit
Probably easier to move the boat 6' to port to install storm windows from dock?
Probably true. It was an experiment because to avoid turning the boat around as we normally do. It takes some time to drop all the lines, unplug the boat, and then move all the lines to the other side. Then do it again. But, yes, doing that probably would have been easier.
Thanks for the lovely video
question:
what method did you use to pump the fuel from the Bladders to the vessel main fuel tanks!?
Thanks again and keep them coming
Be safe
& Safe sailing "boating"
Good question. The boat has a fuel transfer system designed to be able to move fuel between the 4 below deck fuel tanks. What we did was add another input to the fuel transfer pump manifold that connected to a fuel hose running to an exterior bulkhead at the back of the boat. There are short hoses that run between the exterior on deck fuel tanks to the bulkhead fitting.
To pump out the fuel tanks, a manual safety valve needs to be opened on each tank after which, the fuel bladders can be pumped into the tanks below by going down to the engine room and decide where to pump the fuel, set the valves correctly and engage the fuel transfer pump. This has the advantages of not forcing the operator to be outside on deck, there is no risk of getting water into the fuel system, and you can evacuate the bladders fully. The ladder is particularly helpful in that fuel bladders with even tiny amounts of residual fuel are heavy and hard to pack away whereas fully emptied bladders are easy to deal with.
@@MVDirona thanks for the prompt reply, what a brilliant way.
Love the risk assessment part of thinking.
Great 👍🏼 job
Thanks for sharing such technical specks
It is really informative.
Fantastic....
I thought you was Phil Spector at first glance.
Curious to know how much it costs to fuel stateside with the bladders. Also I thought the 52 and the 60 had enough fuel capacity to cross Atlantic? ...do you use the bladders to save fueling costs in Europe (must cost way more) or is it a necessity to have the extra for piece of mind? I ask as my wife and I are thinking of a Nordhavn 60 for our retirement..the main reason is for it's passagemaking ability as we have family all over the globe we wish to visit....your videos have been a great help. Thanks. Carl
Yes you are correct that both the 52 and the 60 can easily cross the Atlantic. Real range in ocean conditions is almost always far shorter than computed miledge but, at reasonable speed, Dirona can do 2500 nautical miles without bladders and 4000 with them.
On fueling costs, it depends how much you need and the price but it carries 1750 gal without bladders and 2650 with them.
@@MVDirona wow...big difference in range. Having read a bit of you blog with the water ingress during your trip do you think it is still worth running the bladders ( think you said you struggled with access to lazerette to determine where the ingress was coming from) or do you thing the extra weight actually helped with stability in the bigger seas?
I'm pretty sure the bladders played no part in the water ingress problem but you bare right that they did block access to the locker that was leaking making it more difficult to correct the problem.
The problems have all been mitigated:
mvdirona.com/2017/12/alarms-at-115am-follow-up/
With those changes in place we wouldn't hesitate to use the bladders when we need additional range.
Why not simply have marine grade rough weather windows to start with?
The short answer is economics. It certainly could be done and that is what was done on the high risk forward facing windows in the pilot house. They just went with sufficiently thick glass to be able to withstand massive water loadings. To get window as big as the salon's windows safe for sea, the glass would have to be very thick and so cost would be higher.
What's done with the storm plates is put a 1/2 sheet of high strength plastic in front of the window to spread the load. This is effective and inexpensive but can scratch easily. So it's effective but doesn't pass light as well and scratches easily so isn't really what you would want for the normal use window.
Why don't they just make the windows the same material as the storm plates?
It's not a great material for visual clarity and scratch resistance. A better option that is used in sea going boats is thick and especially laminated glass. It's actually easy to get glass far stronger than the rest of the boat. It's somewhat more expensive but it's the right answer for maximum safety and ease of use in an off shore boat.
Please don't be offended, but I looked up who you are and I can't help but wonder why you would bother with bladders and such when you might just get a bigger boat with longer built in range?
You asked why not buy a bigger boat that can carry more fuel. Good question. The quick answer is in the 10 years we have owned the boat we have spent about 3 months crossing oceans. It doesn't seem sensible to buy a bigger boat to solve a 3% problem. Bigger costs more to purchase, cost more to insure, costs more to maintain, and costs more in dock fees. You might then ask, why not buy smaller? We considered it and ended up concluding it wouldn't carry what we wanted to carry and would be too slow due to insufficient waterline length.
It's a complicated decision and there are certainly times when bigger would be nice and there are times when smaller would be nice as well. We aimed to buy the smallest boat that would do what we wanted and that approach has worked out fairly well. But, most of our friends that have boats, tend to buy larger ones and I'm sure we could be super happy in a 60 or a 68 and, at least on the 68, it could carry the fuel to do all we would want it to do. However, it would cost a few additional million dollars so it's a fairly big decision.
@@MVDirona Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. It is most appreciated!
Surely hope you made it to your destination..The stabilitiy off this vessel is not that great in the first place, and is worse after filling those fuel bladders....
Even a marine architect can't look at a video of people working around a boat and asses stability. This boat exceed the CE Category A All Oceans certification ("A recreational craft given design Category A is considered to be designed for winds that may exceed wind force 8 (Beaufort) and significant wave heights of 4m and above") by a considerable margin. With full deck bladders, the boat still does pass this same set of tests.
I'm thinking sailboat...
Sailboats have the advantage of not requiring the fuel load but, other than that, not much else changes. We're not materially faster and a sailboat has all the same concerns when heading to sea other than not being solely dependent upon diesel to do the crossing.