North Atlantic Gales (
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- Опубликовано: 30 ноя 2024
- On our 2,800nm North Atlantic passage from Newport, RI to Ireland (mvdirona.com/20...) we passed through three gales. The first two were in the initial week of the passage, before we turned the corner south of the Grand Banks. It was during the first gale that we battled a water ingress issue that set off alarms a 1:15am (mvdirona.com/20.... We passed through the third system about three days before making landfall in Kinsale, Ireland. This one was the most intense of the three, but thankfully the fastest moving, and we passed through the worst in only a few hours.
The video below shows what the conditions were like on board Dirona during the daylight portions of two of the storms. In the first, the winds were fairly heavy, running 25-30 knots with gusts to 47 knots. In the second, the winds were surprisingly light, and yet the waves were even bigger.
My wife and I are planning to do this if I beat cancer. We’ve worked enough and see our grandkids daily. Now it will be our time if it’s meant to be. Thanks for your information. It’s most helpful for training.
I hope you do get the opportunity to get out and do some cruising Robert.
Thumbs up to you mate! Here’s to you and my hopes that you and wife get your wish and dozens more!!
"When you beat the cancer" positivity
hope you can make it ......
Gotta be ready for death and the afterlife way more than preparing for an Atlantic crossing, question is are you.?
Fantastic! I was lucky enough to Captain a 76' Nordhavn twin cummins for a year. They are fantastic vessels built like tanks. I personally liked the idea of putting around at 7.5 - 8 knots. I remember having a Speed over the Ground of 2.8kts once going South through the old Bahama channel fighting currents. I loved the engineering, clever layouts and seaworthiness. I am now Captain of a 31 knot 95ft M/Y, and while I appreciate the power and speed, I would be lying if I said I did not miss the tranquility and relaxation of going nowhere slowly on the Nordhavn. Safe seas to you on your adventures!
We love the ability to cross oceans and go for months without fueling but, given the opportunity to also go 31 kts, we would take it :-). It's just not possible to have both range and speed in a small boat. Our compromise is to have a 32 kts tender on our 9.5 kts boat. It's a nice combination.
Thank you for sharing all of your adventures. The footage near the end in the salon really gives a good perspective of the boats motion.
Amazing footage. It just adds to your early, early morning pump failure blog. I'm glad you both made it safely.
awesome thanks for showing what it is really like when making a crossing.
I hope my wife doesn't see this, I almost have her on board. Great vid thanks for posting.
And that is why I sit at home and watch videos of far braver people! Eeeerp!
My hats off to you brave and adventurous people, living the dream.
Awesome video. I dream of making this passage.
Good captain , glad ya'll made it fine, some great storm footage as well.
I couldn't do it. Hats off, you guys are something.
amazing , you're living the dream .... stay safe and enjoy 👍
I was in the Navy and my first ship was an ocean going minesweeper. Top speed 10 knots and she would pitch roll and yaw all at the same time. Only 90 feet long and 42 foot wide. What a miserable ride on that wooden ship. I vowed I’d never go to sea after I got out in 73. Next ship was the USS Constellation with a flight deck 90 feet above the water and 1090 feet long. We went thru a typhoon with 100 foot waves breaking over the flight deck and 125 hoot winds gusting to 145. I’m so scared of the power of the ocean. Never going to even look at the ocean again!
Me too. Bad weather can eliminate even quite large boats and there is nothing that brings that thought home faster than being 1000 miles off shore in a small boat. We have crossed every ocean and had enjoyable crossings when we have gone at the right time of year. On this trip, we knew we were signing up for 2 to 3 low pressure systems but elected to do it for schedule reasons. With careful choice on when you do the crossing, the odds that it be a safe trip are pretty high.
Reminds me of my time in the Navy when we were sailing the edge of a hurricane. Forces of nature don't really frighten me - when my time is up then I will be gone regardless of if I am enjoying the show, or cowering under a bed. lol
John, I love the idea of going to sea but this video made me feel sick......
Sounds like a nice trip. Those Nordhavens really hold up.
They are some of the toughest yachts on the ocean, and they have more passage making hours than any other maker.
Nice to see a trawler in the mid Atlantic. I'm the captain of a 70 ft Trader. A relative to the nordhaven. Nice boats and well equipped. Thumbs up to abt stabilizers.
Sounds great and I agree that ABT makes a great product and their customer service is even better.
Fascinating! I made the Annapolis to Bermuda to Puerto Rico run on a 50 sailboat. Almost the entire way from Bermuda to P.R. we were faced with the identical conditions.
It's not life threatening but it can be a slog. We've mostly been lucky in our crossings and had pretty good weather. The North Atlantic isn't the most cooperative though.
i had a kha shing 65 widebody with twin cat 3208's from 1989 thru 1997 and i must say i would not have tried that.. it did not have stabilizers but i sure admire the electronics and the reporting of most everything going on..
Great video, and really interesting to see the gauges. Viewers may not realize the wide lens settings you necessarily need to use to show the conditions with the boat in the image visually diminish the actual size of the waves (they are lot bigger than they look here). This is why long lenses like those typically used for sporting events are used by the media to document traffic jams (the long lenses compress the image while the normal to wide lenses cause it to visually recede and diminish).
I have just found your channel and love your videos. You two always sound so confident and competent. Well done! 👍🏻
Thanks for the comment.
If love a boat , I’d cross the Atlantic like in your video, great job
I can't imagine that being fun without the stabilizers. I can recall a passage to Newfoundland that mirrored that, lots of booze to settle the nerves and enjoy the ride.
When it gets really rough the stabilizers just don't have enough force to be able to do more than dampen the rolls but they still do help.
I can hear them working and they are responding to the gyro late and so much momentum is build by the time they go to full deflection the roll isn't much better than if they didn't move at all. And then when the roll is at maximum they remain at full deflection so long they are amplifying the magnitude of roll in the opposite direction in this vicious cycle. And I have to agree that they seem a little undersized. Obviously doing under 5 knots and you're not going to get a lot of help out of them in any case. But I think you might want to consider gain a function of speed through the water. Even though they have end plates they just cannot generate enough lift under 5 knots. Can you adjust gain? What brand and model are the stabs? Hope to help...
I understand your thinking but it's actually fairly easy to show they having a positive impact and that's shut them off. We've tried it and it's well worth turning them on again. It might be the case they can be set up to better damp motion but it definitely not the case that they are "amplifying the magnitude of roll in the opposite direction." The fins are ABT and, yes, gain is adjustable.
Wow amazing sailor's you are... Thanks for sharing ✌🏻💗😊❣️
Thanks for the feedback on the video!
It appears that you have done this before. Excellent video. I look forward to following your trip across the Atlantic. I've been on most of the oceans on aircraft carriers. I can't imagine what a fifty foot boat would be like.
There are times when the freedom of being out in a small boat able to go anywhere is absolutely GREAT. But there are also times when the safety of an aircraft carrier is far more appealing :-).
WOW! That looks like it would wear you out! Hats off!
wow, what a crossing! would of loved to experienced that. Great channel guys, we have subscribed.
Would of loved? Would HAVE loved?
Wow, talk about putting on your big boy pants! The boat compared to the size of those waves shows great stabilizers and an experienced Captain and Crew!
What we always reflect upon when the going gets rough is these conditions are from only 25 to 35 kt winds and waves get worse fairly quickly was wind speeds rise. These conditions are fairly mild on the scale of what's possible at that time of year.
I work on the Grand Banks and we had winds sustained at 102 knots and wave height of 95 ft November past. It was bad would not want to be out in that. However the supply boats rode it out nicely
I'm amazed the off shore supply vessels can successfully take on wave's have that big. Incredible. Bet it was a bit tough on the ships crew.
No doubt it was! Some very rough seas! Thanks for the reply! Godspeed!
nice view of the water
Made me seasick just watching it 😂. Great video
Great video! I hope you guys will write a (technical) book someday!
I would buy it! If I ever get the craft I want, I'll make sure to try and follow your thinking!
It looks like the waves overwhelmed the stabilizers!
Yes, exactly. Once we see around 10' waves the stabilizers are still quite effective but they don't have the lift to fully limit roll. In 20' seas we can be rolling beyond 25 degrees.
There will always be some point where the stabilizers are overwhelmed but we would prefer to have this limiting roll level be higher. Ideally a boat of this size and weight would have 9 sq ft fins rather than 7.5 sq ft but, even with 9, I suspect that we would be moving a lot in 20' seas.
Well at least you guys have the boat for it
The boat is heavy and for a small boat, you are right, it does fairly well.
Brave souls..I have been in boating for many many years but would not want to be in those seas for a long duration of time.. you certainly are well prepared though..
Yes, I agree with you. We've crossed all the world's oceans in the past and not seen any difficult weather but each of those crossings were done at the statistical "best time of year." With good care we got good results. On this crossing we went early in order to spend the summer in Ireland and Scotland and we knew we would see 2 or 3 low pressure systems. Essentially we were willing to pay and expecting to see some rough weather. We're it not for the mechanical problem that we encountered (mvdirona.com/2017/05/alarms-at-115am/) this weather wouldn't have been a problem. The combination of taking on water and rough weather did make for a more difficult crossing.
This is awesome! Question; with having no crew, what is your schedule like for these long multi weeks at sea voyages? Do you ever see each other?
That's a really good question and you are right about just not seeing each other. We used to run 4 hour shifts and just alternate. It works but we hated two aspects of the 4 hour shift program. First, we essentially never see each other. And, second, we were always a little bit tired.
Over time we have evolved to a weird shift system that we really like. Jennifer takes the shift from 10pm to 5am which is 7 hours and at night so much more difficult than day shift time. Then I take the helm from 5am to 10pm which is long but it's during the day which is much easier. Jenifer takes sleep between 6pm and 10pm and then does another sleep from 5am until whenever she gets up.
On this program, we get lunch and dinner together and get the bulk of the day together. If work needs to be done on the boat, then Jennifer can take a little extra helm duty and I'll get the work complete. It's not often we need to but it's nice to be able to easily fit it in when we need.
As an example of how well it works for us. When we went from St. Helena to Barbados, we covered 3,650 nautical miles in 28 days at sea. We arrived into Barbados as Jennifer was getting up and we both felt excellent and were exploring Bridgtown by lunch. It's a very unusual shift pattern but we find we can operate like that indefinitely, still enjoy our lives, and never feel like we are running dangerous sleep deficits.
Very brave. Well done
Our timing wasn't great on this one and we knew it before we left. We had previously cross every major ocean once and, on this return trip across the Atlantic, we knew we would see some rough weather. In fact, an experienced cruising friend predicted we would see three low pressure systems on our crossing and he was exactly right.
Whenever we cross an ocean we chose the best time of year from a weather perspective but, in this case, we went months early. The gain was we get a summer in Ireland and Scotland but the "cost" was some rough water. It wasn't every unsafe but, were we to make the decision again, we would wait and time the crossing better.
I noticed you had fuel bladders to go accross, would travel to Newfoundland, Greenland, Ice land been easier and no extra fuel bladders as interested in you opinion? Thanks
There are many ways across the Atlantic that don't require fuel bladders. The most commonly used is Bermuda to Azores. The Northern route you mentioned is less common but would also work fine without bladders. But the northern route can't be safely used until the ice that is carried down by the Labrador current has cleared.
On this trip we were way too early in the year to use the Northern route but we are interested in doing it and planned to come back to North America that way. But, 4 years later, we ended up wanting to return before July so we returned via Ireland, to Azores, to the US.
Generally, the boat can do 2,500 nautical miles comfortably with good reserve without bladders and 4,000 nautical miles with them so it really depends upon routing.
Since you took on so much fuel in RI which greatly reduced your freeboard I am surprised that the first gale didn't cause a lot more issues!
The boat, with all the fuel as we left Rhode Island will still pass CE Class A Ocean Stability. It's a tribute to how conservatively Nordhavn builds these boats. However, you are right there was a mechanical issue unrelated to weight and stability during that first gale: mvdirona.com/2017/05/alarms-at-115am/.
Thanks for the reply with the link above; that was a stressful read. Mother Nature is always full of surprises which I'm sure brought back memories to many checking your channel. I too liked Paul Wood's idea of gaiters and feel confident that is working out. Best wishes to all!
We liked the Gaiter idea as well and implemented it. Here's everything we did in an effort to avoid these issues in the future:
mvdirona.com/2017/12/alarms-at-115am-follow-up/
I can now see why it was a such a good idea to put those storm windows on.
Very rarely a wave hits the glass directly and it's amazingly load. I'll bet the loads are impressively high.
That is very impressive.
Most of our time at sea is in calm water and nice and easy. This one included some rougher water but even that isn't a problem at all. We still sleep fine and it's not really that stressful. What made this trip different is we experienced a mechanical problem that brought several of feet of water into the engine room. That made for a very challenging half day: mvdirona.com/2017/05/alarms-at-115am/.
But, most time at sea is pretty easy and not stressful at all.
Do you think it would have been doable without the stabilizers? Would you do it again? Great vid thanks!
Yes, it's certainly doable without stabilizers and, if we crossed the Atlantic at the absolute best time of year, it wouldn't be all that bad without stabilizers. When we crossed just about assures we are going to see 2 or 3 big lows and, in that weather, not having the stabilizers would be highly unpleasant but you could do it anytime. Military Destroyers are long narrow boats many of which roll fairly heavily and they are able to take on worse conditions than we see. The stabilizers make it FAR nicer and allows a crew of two to be able to do it in relative comfort.
Would we do it again? In a way, we have done it again. Over the years we have crossed the Pacific, the Indian, and the Atlantic Oceans. In fact, we have crossed the Atlantic twice. Once from Cape Town, to St. Helena and then to Barbados. The second time from Providence Rhode Island to Kinsale Ireland (this trip). Because we went earlier in the year, we saw rougher water than we normally get in our crossings but, yes, we would do it again but we would be more selective in choosing the best possible time of year.
Some wise ocean cruiser once remarked that the most dangerous thing in the Ocean is a schedule and there is a great deal of truth to that observation.
Just discovered your channel and I love it. I will look forward to being part of your adventure😊. Just one wish... I would appreciate if you could somehow could get better sound, as the sound levels varies from ultra low to very high. This makes it very uncomfortable when watching your channel.
Keep discovering. Best regards from Martin in Denmark.
Thanks Martin. We agree with your point on volume levels and are learning as we go but will aim to get more consistent levels in the future.
What was your total fuel consumption on crossing and how much did you have in reserve when arrived in Ireland?
The trip took 17 days and we covered 2,801 nautical miles consuming 2,386 gallons and we arrived with 346 gallons in reserve. The way we drive the boat is we adjust speed to end the trip with whatever reserve we have decided to allocate. We averaged 6.7 nautical miles per gallon which is fairly poor for a trip where we have more fuel than strictly speaking is needed for the trip but weather conditions were poor and fuel consumption was higher than usual.
The details are here: mvdirona.com/2017/05/newport-to-kinsale/.
Great Video! Thank you!
Always wanted to know how long it takes to learn to competently operate a boat like this.
Not that long. You need to know the rules of the road: www.uscgboating.org/regulations/navigation-rules.php. Most insurance companies will want you to have experience with smaller boats first or take some boating instruction. Most countries require a recreational boating license but some like the US do not.
The boat isn't particularly nimble and there is a lot of boat in the water so you need to be careful when docking in heavy currents. It has a lot of windage so you need to be careful when docking in heavy winds. But, it's really not that hard and you can become reasonably competent in weeks with some training.
For longer range passages and especially those crossing oceans more experience is a good idea and you need a well maintained boat that has been well prepared for the trip and has appropriate backups and spares on board.
would seem like eternity steaming along at 6-7 knots in that sea..
lots of data on the nmea bus .. even monitors the meatbox in the laz freezer. smart.
An ocean crossing does take quite a while. The North Atlantic crossing was 17 days. The longest run we have done was 3,650 nautical miles (4,200 statute miles) and it took 28 days.
The laz freezer sensor has saved a few thousand dollars in frozen meat products twice now. Both times solvable problems but only solvable if you learn about them prior to the thaw.
When you have the comforts of home, speed is nothing
Some big waves there!
Up to 38 degree roll and that's WITH the stabilizers! What can the Nordhavn tolerate?
It's surprisingly large. With full tanks it's 65.2 degrees at flood (the angle when water ingress starts). 66.8 degrees at flood with empty tanks. The absolute angle when the righting angle goes to 0 (highest angle where the boat no longer is attempting to return to upright), is 124.3 with empty tanks and is even better with full fuel tanks.
We once had it over at 69.1 degrees and can confirm that it does flood just before that point. We brought on nearly 1,000 gallons of sea water which was scary but was delt with quickly by all the bilge pumps we run. The detail on the 69 degree roll where we took on water: mvdirona.com/2014/09/69-1-degrees/.
Just read your account of the 69-degree roll. Fantastic read. It must be great to have a "cool hand" as your First Mate as well! Again, very impressive boat management and preparedness. Well written, too!
We miss-read wave conditions on the way in with the waves just beginning to break across the entrance as we entered. That was our miss. But, yes, the boat did well with what where difficult conditions.
Can you usually get around the bad weather? Are both of you up in gales at night? You two are still amazing!!
Weather systems can move at in excess of 20 kts and the boat will need to run in the 7 kts range to make it across an ocean so the ability to avoid storms is limited unless the system is unusually small. Generally the strategy is to chose a time of the year when sever storms don't happen and then leave with a good forecast. Depending upon how much excess fuel you have, the boat may be able to do some minor redirections to avoid weather or at least minimize the impact but our capabilities are limited. So, if a storm comes through, we'll likely have to ride through it.
What an adventure.
Although there's a swell on it seems to handle very good.
Yes, the boat quite well in these conditions. There was one part of the trip where the waves were similar in size but considerably closer together that was much more difficult (see mvdirona.com/2017/05/alarms-at-115am/) but, generally, the boat does well in these conditions.
How did you transfer fuel from the bladders to your main tanks during the voyage? Is that a fairly simple and clean procedure using a pump or gravity?
That's an important question: "how do you transfer fuel form the bladders to the main tanks?" A common choice is to pump it from the bladder to the tank opening using a portable electric pump. This is a nice simple solution but, in rough water, the tank fuel opening may be awash. What we do is have a bulkhead fitting that is directly plumbed to the fuel transfer pump.
On this model, short hoses attached between the each bladder and the bulkhead fittings using camlock connections. When it's time to pump the fuel from the bladders below, I just go down to the engine room and set the valves to pump out the bladders into a specific fuel tank below, then turn on the pump. A couple of hours later, the transfer is done and the fuel bladder is vacuumed down flat and ready to be packed away. It's a super easy to use technique.
nice view open sea
I was thinking how cool it would have been to hear a few things...How long a boat is it? Where was the boat made? Do you have twin diesels? What make? How long you expected to be on the water, does it "auto-pilot" at night with only a crew of two? =PC=
The boat is a Nordhavn 52 (www.nordhavn.com/52/). It's a 52' boat that was designed by Pacific Asian Enterprises (PAE) in Dana Point California and built in Xiamen China. It's a single engine boat powered by a 266 hpJohn Deer 6068AFM75. More on the boat here: ruclips.net/video/-hC490NTIJM/видео.html.
We do have an autopilot that maintains course but we chose to always have one of us awake and keeping watch at the helm. The North Atlantic crossing was 17 days and it was 3,000 nautical miles. Our longest crossing was 3,650 nautical miles between St. Helena and the South Atlantic to Barbados. You can see more about where we have been over the last 9 years here: mvdirona.com/maps/.
Love the video but quick question what is the maximum for your boat can roll to before it becomes too dangerous for capsizing. And how do you know what storms you can sell through for your boat?
That's a good question on stability and weather danger. The boat can lean over 61 degrees before down flooding and go over 124 degrees before vanishing stability. Here's more data the stability: mvdirona.com/2019/03/deck-fuel-and-vessel-stability/. And here's more data on what happens when we once exceeded the 61 degree mark: mvdirona.com/2014/09/69-1-degrees/.
The stability is quite good. Where the story is less good is around weather. For a long crossing and the speeds we are able to cross at (around 7 kts), we will be out for a couple of weeks. A weather report is not worth much after a weeks so the best defense is 1) chose the time of year less likely to have storms, and 2) leave when there are no storms forecast.
When using that weather avoidance technique with care, we have crossed the Pacific, Indian, and Atlantic Oceans without seeing any extreme weather and not even much that was rough. The last crossing of the North Atlantic (this video) we chose to go early to be able to spend the summer in Ireland and Scotland but knowing we would see 2 or 3 low pressure regions during the crossing. Essentially we decided to take our lumps and we did. Nothing dangerous but it was a difficult crossing with three medium sized storms more or less as expected.
Wow crazy weather! do you think the paravane system would’ve Worked at all in that weather or with the waves just rip the fish right out of the water
We're not equipped with paravanes and use only hydraulic fin stabilzers but we were seeing upwards of 20' waves and I think that paravantes would work fine in those conditions. We're pretty happy with our stabilization system by ABT-Trac: abttrac.com/.
Have you guys ever bumped into anything while cruising at night? A cargo container, jetsam, flotsam, etc.?
I'm sure we have bumped into a lot over the years but nothing big enough to do any damage. It's just about impossible to see nearly submerged objects at night so some contact is inevitable. Fortunately, there isn't really that much out there in most parts of the ocean. A container or something big would be very bad. All you can do is hope it's floating high enough to become a good RADAR target and have a strong boat where small debris won't be an issue.
@@MVDirona I'm sure that tank (meant in good way) of yours would have the best chance of any similar boat out there. I followed your lead and put a couple of Maretron 13" displays overhead. Nice but so slow. Then you've got to invest in all of the sensors! Did you know that they don't offer the 13" Maretron anymore? I hope they last a long time! I enjoy your videos very much. Where are you guys now?
If forced to, you could replace the 13" display with a commodity monitor coupled with N2kview running on an embedded windows system. Hopefully you won't need to do it but options are good.
Another great video. Any estimate on the highest waves waves encountered during your passage. Those at around 7:00 looked around 3 meters. Also, did you do a video on installing check valves in your wing engine exhaust? Thanks in advance.
I'm not sure why but wave heights on video just about always look flat. Video just seems to flatten waves.
It might also be true that waves seen in person from a small boat in the middle of the North Atlantic get over-estimated :-). Perhaps I'm guilty of that as well but my estimates at the time where 20' or just under 7m. The biggest waves we saw on that trip were during the night one night earlier in the trip than the video while we battled a water leak: mvdirona.com/2017/05/alarms-at-115am/. In the video, we used the biggest seas we saw during the day which were slightly less tall but not much so.
Must feel like a 'small' vessel in the middle of the ocean. How / When did you burn the fuel from the on-deck bags? How many days till the bags were empties and stowed?
You are right, when operating far from shore and espeically in rough weather, we feel very small and very much on our own. But, other than one incident where we had a mechanical problem bringing in water (mvdirona.com/2017/05/alarms-at-115am/), it's not scary. That one event in a couple of decades of cruising was the notable exception.
We bring the fuel below decks as quickly as possible. We burn down 400 galons of fuel in the main tanks and then pump down the forward bladder. We then make space for another 650 gallons and bring the rest below. The fuel bladders are most secure when then are 100% full or empty so don't pump a little bit each day and wait until the full tank will pump below.
At the longest, it takes about a week to get the fuel below decks which is roughly the accuracy of a good forecast when deciding when to leave.
👍 Respect 🤜🤛
Hello have you guys ever thought about using para-vanes / stabilizers? Do you use the fuel from the bladders first? Thanks
We use hydraulically-driven, wing stabilizers rather than para-vanes. Ours our supplied by American Bow Thruster in California. Yes, we do use the deck fuel first for stability reasons. Our goal is to have that fuel consumed before we are outside of the accuracy window of the forecast available when we started the passage.
We use ABT hydraulic stabilizers. Like the gyro systems, all boat angles are sampled many times per second by the control system. It sends commands to the stabilizers fins to change boat angles as needed. Rather than maintaining a rotating gyroscope and hydraulically controlling the boat angle to the gyro, it uses small wings to achieve the same end.
Overall it's a pretty effective system and has the advantage of consuming less power but the disadvantage of only being fully effective when underway with water flowing over the wings.
Never saw a setup with the gauges like that. What was the set up for that?
The display is Maretron N2kview (defender.com/en_us/maretron-n2kview-vessel-monitoring-control-software-n2kview?gclid=Cj0KCQjwmvSoBhDOARIsAK6aV7i4CLpxtG-Ldpt37vUjO_ysBXJKbMHTifn0x7Wf9sw-oRUJQepZEVkaAu0qEALw_wcB) which is an excellent, fully end user configurable instrumentation system. N2Kview can display anything's on the NMEA2000 bus and, on our boat, that includes: all engine data from both the wing, main, and generator engines. All 120V and 240V electrical data from both inverters, both shore power cords, and the generator. All DC electrical data and all fuel, water, and waste tank level data.
Sailed a 28 foot Pearson Triton to the South Pacific and back and I can tell you that a sailboat is much more stable!
The 28' foot Pearson Triton might be more stable but Dirona does have active stabilizers so it does pretty well.
What is the maximum roll she can safely withstand before it gets dicey? 38 seems a lot
Dirona is equipped with active roll stabilization so in small to medium seas, it rolls very little. In big seas the stabilizer fin lift is eventually over-powered and the boat will begin to show roll. The worst of these I can remember where steady 25 to 30 degree rolls along the Australian coast while the Tasman was quite rough. But these events are quire rare. Sometimes the boat will get hit by a statistically larger wave and might roll a bit more but these are even more rare.
The boat can lean over to 61 degrees before it starts taking on water and it can lean over to nearly 120 degrees before reaching the point of vanishing stability.
So well inside the limits, nice.
Yes, but when it gets up above 20 degrees it gets to be more of a chore in the boat. You have to be extra careful with things moving so much and so quickly.
At what point in this journey are you tapping in to your fuel in the bladders?
As soon as we can. Weight above the water line reduces stability and, as fuel burns from the tanks below the water line, this problem gets worse. What we do is burn down 400 gallons below decks and then transfer down the 360 gallons from the forward deck tank. At that point the main tanks are back to within 40 gallons of full. We then burn down 600 gallons and, once that is done, transfer the remaining tanks below deck.
At that point the trip has progressed about a week and the tanks below deck are nearly full and there is no fuel left on deck.
Great job, how did you manage to carry enough fuel for the trip? Does the Nordhavn manage enough fuel for a crossing?
We can carry enough fuel for a 2,500 nautical mile trip in real ocean conditions where efficiency is much lower than flat water tests. So, we can cross any ocean but need to choose our routing carefully. In this case, we went straight across from Newport Rhode Island to Kinsale Ireland which is nearly 3,000 nautical miles. For trips longer than 2,500 nm we carry deck fuel. In fact, since we like the additional safety of deck fuel, we often carry it for even 2,000 nautical miles trips.
You can see the deck fuel filling in this video: ruclips.net/video/dM4NLuNmZOQ/видео.html.
A blog on why we sometimes carry deck fuel when we aren't going far enough to need to: mvdirona.com/2017/04/fuel-option-value-speed-safety/.
@@MVDirona Thank you! I saw in a video later how much fuel you can carry! Very impressive.!
It is a lot of fuel but the final aspect of the discussion is stability. When carrying extra fuel, it's important that the boats stability still be sufficient since any fuel carried above the water line does reduce vessel stability.
The manufacturer, Nordhavn, has a done a very good job of building a bot with considerable safety margin and this really helps. More detail at: mvdirona.com/2019/03/deck-fuel-and-vessel-stability/.
what are your thoughts on paravanes? We will be in the market for a 43-46 Nordhavn and I would be worried about the stabilizers failing.
We have run for over 9,000 hours without ever being without the stabilization system. We have had a few faults spread out over the years but none that disabled the system. We personally find working outside the boat in rough water difficult and prefer active stabilizers to passive.
Paravanes are perfectly functional and, if you don't mind managing rigging, they work fine. If you haven't seen the Perfect Storm, you should give it a watch. For many people seeing that show pushes them to preferring active stabilizers. However, it's a personal choice and many accomplished cruisers and commercial fisherman use passive stabilizers.
MV Dirona de
Have you ever heard of someone using a Seakeeper gyro stabilizer on a trawler? I was on a smaller boat (50' planing hull) recently and it worked remarkably well.
We have had good experience with ABT hydraulically controlled fin stabilizers but have never tried Sea Keepers. An upside of Sea Keeper is you don't need a fin in the water eliminating tangle risk and some form of collision damage. A downside is when running the gyro-based system the generator needs to run 24x7 and they are fairly power intensive.
In that little bitty boat...I would be so scared. Just watching this scared me.
The boat does seem a bit small when conditions are rough and we're a long way from shore. On the other end of the spectrum, we're passing through the Gota Canal which passes through central Sweden and we feel pretty big in these small locks.
@@MVDirona Yes it is all a matter of perspective. Great video.
Thanks William.
How long was the passage ? Where was the water ingress ?
It was a 17 day passage and we covered 2801 nautical miles. More on the passage itself here:
mvdirona.com/2017/05/newport-to-kinsale/
The water ingress was at the starboard aft cockpit locker. More on the water ingress problem and it's cause here:
mvdirona.com/2017/05/alarms-at-115am/
The work done to prevent that issue from occurring in the future:
mvdirona.com/2017/12/alarms-at-115am-follow-up/
MV Dirona Thank you for the reply. On your site, you show a series of screens, that show engine gauges etc. Is this a Böning system ? If not, what reporting system f dig o you have on-board ?
Thank you,
Bill Blendick
It's Maretron N2kview. Maretron has taken what used to only be available on very expensive super yacht monitoring systems and make it available more cost effectively. More detail on the system here:
mvdirona.com/2016/09/maretron-n2kview-on-dirona/
So how do you sleep, do both of you take a turn at driving?
Yes, we work in shifts so there is always someone at the helm and, since human error is always a risk, we have a watch alarm that can't be reached from sitting down and will signal if not touched every 10 min showing the watch stander is away.
@@MVDirona very interesting. What a great adventure! Just found the channel. Cheers!
It has been a fun one. We've crossed all oceans and loved just about all of it. More posted here if you are interested: mvdirona.com/.
@@MVDirona how do you safe guard and ensure your safety from pirates or probably a navy ship of some other country firing a torpedo on you? How safe is ocean? Excluding rough weather?
Pirates are a problem in some parts of the world. A broad area of several hundred miles around Somalia is unsafe, the Gulf of Guinea area is quite hot right now, and the Straits of Malacca can be a bit risky as well although there currently aren't that many events in that area. Some parts of the Caribbean are worth avoiding as well. Here's some data showing pirate activity so far in 2021: www.icc-ccs.org/piracy-reporting-centre/live-piracy-map.
We avoid areas where there are piracy problems which, on one hand is unfortunate, it would be fun to be able to go through the Suez Canal. But, on the other hand, the world is a very big place and there are lots of places where piracy is virtually unheard of.
World Navies may decide to board vessels at any time but, if following the law and not carrying weapons or drugs, they generally don't cause much delay. Some countries enforce their border sovereignty with incredible vigilance. For example, when in Australia, along the Great Barrier Reef and the Northern Border, we were contacted by air surveillance very frequently and we were boarded and inspected once.
Wow, they say video don't show big seas but boy this one does
It's true waves never look as big in still pictures or video. In this particular case, it's well within the capabilities of the boat but, even then, we still had to be careful moving around in the boat. Things were moving fast.
Did the crossing eastward take around 21 days?
We crossed between Newport Rhode Island and Kinsale Ireland in 17 days. Your estimate of 21 days is an excellent one but we had lots of fuel with us on this 2,801 nautical mile (5,187 km/ 3,223 mile) trip so we crossed a bit more quickly.
So many systems to manage. 1.2 mpg. 2500 gallons = 7,000$ diesel, Correct??
We got a great deal on diesel before leaving Newport Rhode Island. I don't recall the exact price but it was around $2,30/gal. We burned 2,386 gallons on the trip so roughly $5,500.
More detail from: mvdirona.com/2017/05/newport-to-kinsale/
Over the entire 2,801nm, 17-day trip our average speed was 6.86 kts, and we consumed 2,386 gallons of diesel for an average fuel economy of 1.18 nm/gallon. We arrived with 346 gallons of diesel, 46 gallons above our 300-gallon reserve because we’d slowed down near the end to approach Kinsale in daylight, and a flooding tide carried us in.
Well...nobody claims is a cheap hobby,isn''t it so?
I'm curious how much fuel weight you had left on deck when you hit these storms?
Our normal rule is to never start a trip without a good weather window and to bring the deck fuel below as soon as possible. On our boat, it takes nearly a week before all the deck fuel is below. This seems to work fairly well in that weather reports are reasonably accurate when looking out a week.
On this trip we saw three low pressure systems and the first was two lows coming together about 750 miles off the US coast and we were carrying a full load of deck fuel when that storm came through so we had 5,600 lbs on deck. This isn't where we want to be but the boat stability is still sufficient for CE Category A (All Oceans): mvdirona.com/2019/03/deck-fuel-and-vessel-stability/. However, it's our goal to never be in rough water with fuel on deck and, assuming we have weather reports accurate for a week (the normal case), we shouldn't see these conditions while carrying deck fuel.
@@MVDirona Thank you. The roll seemed excessive for the weather conditions, so I wondered if you were caught with all of that weight up on deck.
The stabilizers did a great job of compensating. :)
I agree on your assessment of excessive roll but, no it's not fuel related or that isn't the primary factor. It might be worse when we are running very low on fuel (below deck tanks empty) but the differences don't seem that noticable. When wave heights are up around 15 to 20', the stabilizers start to get overloaded and you can see roll up around 25 degrees at the upper end of that.
The boat has 7 1/2 sq ft of stabilizers on each side. My feeling is that 9 sq ft might have been a better choice but, it's always the case that, as conditions worsen, there is eventually insufficient stabilizer lift to fully counteract the wave motion.
Generaly I'm super happy with the effectiveness and reliability of ABT stabilizers but, as I said, this boat would likely be better off with slightly larger fins.
I’m new to this. You mentioned sleeping was acceptable. Doesn’t someone has to be up during this kind of weather to make sure things are going well?
Yes, there is always someone awake at the helm in all conditions. We sleep in shifts.
I think it would have been much more informative/interesting if at least part of the time you recorded the audio of the boat and the storm.
The forward facing camera that record most of that footage no longer has audio probably due to water/weather damage. Also, it's surprisingly difficult to record the storm audio properly. Inside you hear almost nothing and outside the wind overloads the microphones and it's easy to just hear wind interactions with the microphones rather than the natural sounds of the storm.
No floppers? Brutal!
The boat has hydraulic active stabilizers so doesn't need paravane stabilizers.
Fancy!!!
It's pretty nice being able to switch them on rather than go out to rig paravanes before it gets too rough to be able to do it and then need to recover them before returning to shore. It fact, it's so easy we basically just leave the active stabilizers on whenever the boat is underway.
We do have a flopper/stopper for use in anchorage. Here's an under water video of it at work: ruclips.net/video/C9cCl_ohwjU/видео.html.
I have salmon sticks on my 40'er. The floppers are almost always in the water. As you probably know, the difference is like night and day. The only real downside is the speed. The boat will do 19 knots when it's flat, but only 8 knots with the stabilizers in. Oh, and I almost forgot. At anchor, floppers are wonderful! Anyway, your boat is super cool. The rough weather video had my attention. I hate that!
Sounds like a nice setup.
hy nice video do you have stabilators on your ship
Yes we have 7 1/2 sq ft American Bow Thruster hydraulic stabilizers to make open ocean runs more enjoyable.
I would be properly terrified.
It's actually not that bad as long as the boat is operating correctly. Conditions like this make it harder to sleep and more care is needed when moving around in the boat. But, it's not frightening. The only time it gets scary is when conditions are rough and the boat has a problem. Here's an example of one of the two events we've encountered that did feel quite uncomfortable: mvdirona.com/2017/05/alarms-at-115am/.
I need dramamine to watch this video.
Would love to know fuel consumption.?
It ranges between around 4 nautical miles per gallons at very low speed and arround 0.8 nautical miles per gallon at full output.
Lekker man lekker
No sound ... I would'nae caw that a gale ... that's a wee breeze . Waters are choppy but not far from being gale force .
The winds in this vidoe are often above gale (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gale). If you are interested, tere is also considerable more data from the weather instruments and other sensors up at mvdirona.com/Trips/atlanticocean2017/atlanticocean4.html.
I agree with your general point that those conditions aren't dangerous and shouldn't be frightening. We do our best to avoid storms but these conditions are likely the worst or second worst we have been hit with while at sea. The other contender was in the Gulf of Alaska with multiple days in the 30 to 40 kts range and fairly shallow water. Not dangerous but, at least for us, big water.
MV Dirona you’ll have to excuse my fellow countryman here, we are Scottish and are somewhat used to winds and horizontal rain (seriously, when there’s a bit of rain and the wind is strong, the rain doesn’t do the vertical falling, it batters you on the horizontal) and tbf to him for some places here in Scotland, this isn’t that bad. In fact it’s not unusual to see people in coastal towns and villages walking around in shorts when there’s snow falling. 😁 no joke btw!
colintraveller lol ya dafty! 👍🏼😂 🏴
The camera never truly shows how bad the waves really are. If it looks rough on video it's 10 times worse in reality.
Yes, I agree that neither video nor still pictures show the conditions with perfect fidelity. They always seem to under-represent them a bit. I thought for a while it was because the photographer is unconsciously turning the camera to partly match the wave agle but rigidly mounted cameras don't seen any better than hand held. Then I thought that cameras high in the boat might make wave height seem less realistic but, having taken shots right at the water line in the cockpit, it seems like the pictures under-represent conditions there too.
What kind of engines a GPH did you use?
The single main engine is a John Deere 60698AFM75 M2 rated at 266 hp. It's burn rate is 13.3 gph at full output down to a fraction of a gallon per hour at idle. We generally don't drive to RPM or GPH but instead drive to fuel and distance. When we start a long trip, we set the fuel reserve and adjust the speed to go as fast as possible while not exceeding the fuel burn we need to complete the trip.
To make it easy, the boat control systems lights a "faster" light on the dash when more fuel is available and a "slower" light when negative currents, winds, or swell conditions are making the trip less efficient and we need to slow down to achieve the fuel mileage we need.
MV Dirona You have to be proud of the builders with the Miles you've traveled! I''ve crossed the Pacific a few times but on a Motor Sailer. We held 800 Gallons with a 1271 Detroit and a 32 Kw Westerbeake Generator! Had to motor at least 5 Days every time! What is you plan for catastrophic Main engine failure! Could you rig a sail?
We have a John Deere 6068AFM75 M2 primary engine rated at 266 hp. Diesels are fairly reliable but, in my opinion, it would not be a good idea to head out across the ocean without some alternative means of propulsion. In our case, we have an emergency "get home" engine on Dirona. It's a 40hp Lugger L644. One nice feature of this engine is that it shares just about all parts with our 12kw Northern Lights M643 so they can use a common set of spares and parts from one can be used on the other if needed.
MV Dirona You know your equipment for sure! Prevent prevent prevent is all you can do. Thanks for your information. Sail on and be Safe!
I love your videos!! I am curious though, do you wear your life vests when you encounter this type of weather?
No, we don't usually wear life jackets inside the boat. There have been a couple of times in our previous boat where the conditions were difficult enough that we put on survival suites but we haven't in the last 10 years or so.
That side view later in the video makes me want to hide under my bed! You would seem so vulnerable!
When everything is in good working condition and there are no problems, it's not scary. A bit tiring perhaps but not frightening. When there are problems, it can be frightening. Here's an example: mvdirona.com/2017/05/alarms-at-115am/.
These situations are rare -- we've only seen one in 10 years -- but they can be taxing.
Hell of a place for a single screw......
I hear you on the single engine concern Ross and I feel much the same way. The challenge is that a twin screw boat is just slightly less efficient so the range would be slightly less. And two engines takes up more space so the tanks space is reduce and that gives up quite a bit more range. If we were buying a 60' boat or larger, we would go with the redundancy of a twin engine boat. But, in smaller boats like our 52, a single ends up with more ocean crossing range.
For safety reasons, we have an emergency "get home" engine. It'll push the boat along at 3.5. to 4.5 kts so it's not speedy but it will keep the boat safe in rough water and it'll get you back to land. This is a nice compromise to get the range of a single engine and, at the same time, the redundancy of two engines.
Yeah. Smaller boat -smaller spaces but over all greater distance travelled. I'm enjoying your videos.
Thanks Ross. We've been busy enough having fun that it's been a while since we posted a video. Things have to slow down eventually :-)
Nice to see the majority of the 20’ waves staying off the boat. Was that always the case?
The camera never captures the true size off the waves.
So true. "Big" waves look tiny on video. Not sure why that is but I agree with you that in-person always feels different than the videos of the same wave conditions.
48ft yacht?
The boat is 52' on the nameplate and around 56 overall.
How Columbus faces all sort challenges....
Great sleeping westher
Your right it is a bit rough but it turns out if the boat is running well and without mechanical problems, we sleep fine through these storms. The MSR is pretty close to the center of motion for the boat which minimizes the movement and we seem to sleep fine even when we are operating in fairly rough water.
Because there was no music and only occasional voice over explaining things, I got the impression I was in for the long haul and that thought actually made me start to feel a little sea sick so I stopped watching about half way through. Way to go MV Dirona, if I throw up I can't make it over to your Patron channel.....
:-). It was a bit bumpy out there and that wasn't the worst of the trip. Some nights at least seemed rougher.
If you cant find a better time to do that crossing , Then don't even go there , Not worth the wear and tear .
We have crossed the Pacific, the Indian, and the Atlantic and had good experiences on each ocean crossing. We have been at sea as long as 28 days going 3,650 nautical miles and still enjoyed the trip. Weather reports don't mean much out 10 to 14 days but, as you said, their are statistically good times of year and their are less good times. This particular crossing was at a less good time. Of course we knew it was early and yet still made the decision to go with our eyes open knowing we would see 2 or 3 low pressure systems on the 17 day crossing. We felt it was worth it to get a cruising season in the Ireland and Scotland. However, I totally respect your opinion that's it's not worth the wear and tear and fully agree that crossing at other than the best time is signing up for a rough ride. No debate.
Your not supposed to fly the American flag in bad weather
We elect to fly the flag at all times.
North Atlantic? No thanks.
Wonder how many puke bags were used on this crossing
I vary rarely get seasick but it did get to me during the 11 hours below deck I spent working on a mechanical problem. More on the water intrusion problem: mvdirona.com/2017/05/alarms-at-115am/
I took a Scopalomine patch during that operation to avoid sea sickness but the rest of the trip wasn't a problem.
Boring looking st the sea for 10 mins
Try 17 days straight to cross an ocean :-)