This guy is my new marine maintenance hero. Unlike me he never procrastinates a task-in-hand, he's a bearer for detail and like me keeps his immediate workspace clinically clean. Although, I did frown upon the use of adjustable spanners, which he did justify his reason's for their role. Bravo.
This man is very smart and deals correctly with what is basically a boat steering design problem. That steering arm that road end attaches should have been a Y yoke type machined from single metal block. The reason that rod end bearing wears so quick is the lateral forces of pushing and pulling on a bolt that is held only on one side of rod end, in which no matter how tight that forces are angled with bolt and steering arm hole axis. Even more sad scenario would be if bolt got loose and made the hole on arm larger with wear. A Y yoked arm end would hold and keep forces on axis better with top and bottom bolt holes. That would make rod end bearing life many times longer.
There is no question that a y-yoked design would wear better. But the current design with unbalanced loads last 1,500 to 2,000 hours which isn't that bad. Your point that an insufficiently well torqued bolt wears dangerously fast on this design is an important one. I can confirm you are right: if the bolt isn't tight, the wear can get dangerous fast.
Hi: I enjoyed this video because it raises a lot of engineering design questions. It would make a great group project for some new engineering students. Start all the way from the beginning with forces transmitted to that arm from the rudder and the hydraulic actuator. Trying to repair that in a storm must have been a dreadful experience. Glad your safe. Keep up the maintenance videos. They're great fun to watch because we don't have to work in those cramped spaces!
Hey thanks for the feedback. I'll bet you and your students would come up with a design that doesn't put so much sheer load on that fastener. The loads on the rudder system are amazingly high. But, a 3/4" grade 8 bolt if properly tightened does seem adequate for the job. I personally would prefer a clevis on the hydraulic cylinder rod end.
Well James,you did it again, with Jennifer behind the camera you had my full attention thru the whole video,amazing to see how you made that mechanical work with that steering “thing” I hope you can forgive for not choosing the correct word for that metal thing. When I see you doing your thing/things,with your lovely boat,it’s like an episode of “Boat maintenance for dummies” in this case I’m the “dummy” As a Swede I like that you make use of the invention from Mr.Johan Petter Johansson from which he had the patent in1891-1892 the wrench,and the adjustable wrench,they can still be used successfully in this day and age. You made all this happen without the watchful eye of Mr.Spitfire. :) :) :) From a Swedish fan. :) :) :)
Now that you mention it, you're right that Spitfire didn't make an appearance in this video. He usually drops in find out what we are up to when we go down there. I didn't know the inventor of the adjustable wrench was a Swede. Thanks for passing that along.
Love these detailed maintenance videos. Thank you for taking the time to put together and share. Saving up for an older Nordhaven so all tips/tricks and learned from experience videos are very helpful.
One of the nice things about buying a Nordhavn is they are both heavily built and the components chosen are strong. Nordhavn's require some maintenance but you don't have to waste time upgrading parts not appropriate for the application or correcting design errors. Just maintenance.
i know Im asking the wrong place but does anyone know of a trick to log back into an instagram account..? I was stupid lost the account password. I would love any tips you can offer me
@Matthias Nickolas thanks for your reply. I got to the site through google and I'm in the hacking process now. Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
Some may see the OCD as a bad thing, but I have spent my life trying to instill a little OCD in those I have taught. Do a job right one time has been my motto for over 50 years. Well done.
I must admit after you mentioned the nuts were torqued to 250 ft lbs then you pulled out the Crescent wrenches I Lol'd. Appreciate the uploads. I plan on doing this myself in the next 5-6 years.
Yeah, adjustable wrenches aren't awesome but when everything you own has to fit in a few hundred square feet, some compromises have to be made. I'm actually pretty impressed with the load these wrenches seem able to support but, yes, it is inelegant.
Great work James. When I was an apprentice engineer I failed a practical assessment for using an adjustable wrench the wrong way round. Sliding jaw always faces the pressure! That's one I'll never forget.
The first rule of professional mechanics is don't use adjustable wrenches. The next rule is only use them in the proper direction. I violated both :-). When I was a professional auto mechanic I had a 5' tall Snap On tool box without a single adjustable wrench. Boat and the space limitations of living on a boat force some compromises.
Good winterproject to keep the boat in a good shape. About twenty years ago i raced motorbikes for a few years, just for fun and on low budget. When i had to get my license the instructors said to us that we should clean our bike after every practice session. The reason why, was that if you did that you would see if there was something wrong with your bike! So you could maintain it directly. It was a good lesson for me, so i agree with you, keep the boat clean and you see if there is something leaking or in this case, the rod end! Maybe you can look here in holland for a new spare part that you are looking for that will last better then the original one! Enjoy your stay!
I used to work on race cars and we always said that a clean car is a fast car. Nothing shows problems that could end a race faster than having everything clean. I completely agree with you and, as a consequence, we try to keep the mechanical spaces clean and the bilge dry. If there is problem, cleanliness helps us see it earlier.
Good video Don't Give Up up on the replacement part because of the snafu with the thread as the theory is sound as with the Rudder bearing upping the spec for Greater durability is a very good idea. The saving in time and effort and standard replacement parts is worth the trial and error to achieve greater reliability.
Yes, I think you are right. I've got a request in to FK bearings to see if they are wiling to take make 4 with 7/8"-14 TPI rather than the more common 3/4"-16TPI. If they will do it and the price isn't too crazy, I'll go that way. If they aren't willing to do it, I could consider having a machine ship drill and tap out to 7/8-14TPI. I actually suspect that is what the original part supplier does as the size is fairly unusual.
Yeah, on our previous boat we had many under-sized components than failed. It's amazing how effective it is to just up-size. More engineering safety margin often drives up component reliability greatly.
Awsome how to video! It's a shame the new and improved part did not work out for you! If it makes you feel any better, That happens to me alot! Thanks for sharing!
Yeah, it can happen but the new part was only $85 USD so not a huge loss. It looks like what Sea Star Solutions (the steering manufacturer) has done is to get a custom part made where they take a 3/4" rod end and cut 7/8"-14TPI threads into it. I can get the Sea Star Part for under $150 USD, so I may end up just doing that.
Looks like a top quality supplier. Thanks for passing that along. Unfortunately, they don't produce the unusual size we use: 3/4" bore with 7/8"-14tpi female threads.
Just came across this video and found it very interesting, however torque on nut bolt connection is an approximation depending on the friction in the threads. I'm sure you checked the manufacturer of the bolt and dry / lubricated condition will put vastly different stresses in the threads to the point that you could fail the bolt or nut. Ideally you want to stress the bolt to about 80% of yield stress which will stretch the bolt. The most accurate way is measure the bolt length before and after tightening with a vernier or micrometer (assuming that you have one that will fit). The amount of stretch will depend on the bolt size and material and can be calculated from standard stress/strain curves. However I do commend you for making this repair in heavy seas, I hope you kept your breakfast intact.
All true. Most of my expereince as an automotive mechanic, just uses simple torque wrench readings even though you are 100% correct in saying that is far from the most accurate approach. I have seen some performance engines and a few heavy duty diesels that toque to a given torque and then force another 1/8 of a turn (or other fixed value) into fastener to get a fixed amount of stretch. My steering application isn't really that stressed and so that precision isn't necessarily called for (although precision never hurts). It just needs to be good and tight since there is a high rotational load on the through bolt since it's mounted off to the side rather than in a central clevis. If it's not tight and there is movement in the joint, the system fails quickly. If it's tight enough that there is some stretch in the bolt and no flex in the joint, it'll wear for the life of the boat. I suspect that 70% as tight as I torqued it would have been perfectly fine. Perhaps even 50%. Thanks for passing along those details on fastener precision torqueing.
Hi: Thank you for your informative video and I've learned a lot from watching you and listing as well. Hopefully, I can relay some knowledge in return. I've tried to check the comments for this but didn't see it listed so sorry if this has been suggested before. You find it much easier to torque wrench the first nut than the bolt end. Good luck experimenting with this and keep up the fun maintenance vids I love them :)
Yes, you are correct. There isn't clearance with the bolt oriented downwards but to get an accurate torque reading I should torque the nut rather than the bolt. The best solution is to re-orient the bolt upwards. I've been resistant to doing that since it is more prone to catch on clothing when I'm working in the are but I should just get over it. Thanks for the comment.
I follow you on Vessel Finder. I really hoped you would dock in Delfzijl, Before you went to Vlieland. I would have visite you. Not like a crazy fan but just to have the opurtunity (spelling) to see a Nordhavn in real life for the first time in my life. I love your ship. Greetings from the Netherlands (Veendam, Groningen)
There are few Nordhavn's in the Baltic area and if you want to see many at once, Nordhavn Europe is nearby in Southampton UK (www.nordhavneurope.com/).
A tip when possible don’t use the open ended crescent or fixed open ended use the the circular end it will contact 6 or up to 8 points on the nut. That will reduce the chance of stripping the nut.
Yes and it probably won't surprise you that you are not the first to have pointed that out :-). I've not had any problem with slipping wrenches damaging fasteners but I agree it's best to favor that wrench orientation.
Thanks for these excellent videos. I am doing the same job on my Nordhavn 40, though its admittedly a smaller system. Many engineered fastener sources recommend that when using the double nut locking method that the first nut installed must be the "jam" nut and be tightened to approx 50% of the final torque. That would be 125 ft lb in your case. Then the main nut is installed second and tightened to the full torque while holding the jam nut stationary; 250 ft lb in your case. These sources (Fastenal, for example) acknowledge this seems counter intuitive but are pretty clear to do it any other way means you achieve only a fraction of the intended locking force. I would appreciate hearing your views on this.
Thanks for the feedback. On this connection, we had a bad experience where the original castellated nut was too loose and, as a consequence, it worked in heavy seas and in just a single night wore substantially through the fastener. This lead to it loosening more which further accelerated the wear. Have a look at this picture: mvdirona.com/2017/05/steering-issue/. The cause is the castellated doesn't have a location where the hole matches that is sufficiently tight. I should have understood this and taken action but, because it came that way from the yard, I assumed it was "right" without critical thought. The castellated nuts isn't a good approach. Because of the poor experience above, I wanted the fastener to be tight and selected the torque that matched the grade 8 fasteners I had selected. That's where 250 ft lbs came from. Many commenters here have argued 1) less torque would have been adequate, and 2) it's impossible to get a fully correct torque reading with the torque wrench on the bolt rather than on the other side on the nut. On point 1, I think the commenters are correct and torque down in the 150 ft lb range would likely be fine but, on the other hand, the fastener is rated to 250 ft lbs and all components are fine at that torque. I think 150 ft lbs would be adequate which is to say that less than 250 is fine. On the second problem mentioned above, putting the bolt in from the bottom would allow a more precise torque and I would recommend doing that. On your question, would I be comfortable doing up to 1/2 torque and then bringing the lock nut up to full torque? I suspect the advice you got was probably well informed but I would not be comfortable torqueing to 75 and then bringing the locknut up to 150. If you were using the higher torque setting of 250 ft lbs allowed by the parts I selected you would be using 125 ft lbs for the first nut. I probably could live with this. Generally I want that fastener torqued to the point that no flex is possible under the extraordinary loads seen on this steering part. The 1/2 torque followed by full torque on the lock nut procedure recommended to you is not one I'm familiar with and it might work well. I'm just not familiar with that procedure and this is a fastener that is highly safety critical. I have to admit I'm a bit conservative and wouldn't want that first nut done up any less tight than 150 ft lbs (using the 3/4" grade 8 fasteners I selected).
Totally agree with all your observations. I used the "2 nut" locking method as you did until I researched the engineering and found this (amongst others): www.boltscience.com/pages/twonuts.htm Its counter intuitive so today checked with a couple of colleagues who are professional mechanical engineers with a shiiping company. They tell me the engineering right, esp. for high vibration areas and cyclic loads. I am going to try it on my N40 on the tiller arm and engine mounts and watch it closely for a while. Your good experience with the method you show is comforting given your real world experience. Thanks for your videos; a real contribution to safe and reliable boating!
The article you referenced seems credible and their reference to ISO 898-2: 2012 further reinforces their position. Thanks for posting the additional data.
There are rod ends that have oilite bearings with grease nipples on them instead of the teflon/nylon bearings that will effectively last forever if they are regularly lubricated with high pressure grease. Used to use them in an industrial setting where the rods were moving approximately 70 degrees range of motion at least 60 times per minute.
Yes, I did look at alternatives to the OEM bearings mostly because they charge 2x to 3x what is reasonable in the retail channel. The challenge is the part has a 7/8" internal rod thead but only a 3/4" opening in the spherical bearing. These are available from alternative sources but these dimensions are much less common. I ended up finding the OEM part at a far more reasonable price so I bought 3 of them. Each of these will last 1,000 to 2,000 hours so I ended up being satisfied with this solution and stopped shopping for better bearings although, as you said, they are out there and available. Thanks for the suggestion.
Exciting video. Exciting ship. I do wonder though, wouldn't be better to torn turn the bolt 180° in the vertical plane so that it's possible to tighten each nut to 250 lbf•ft? D'oh. You just addressed that problem at ~33:44 in your video. Well still exciting and what a nice ship⛴️ you have.
Yes, your right we could invert the bolt and put the nut on the top but that isn't the original design and we prefer to be able to work over the steering gear without interference with the bolt and double nuts. But, there is no question that approach would work fine.
Great video, really enjoy watching you work on the boat, it's a bit late, but i'm surprised Nordhavn engineering didn't use a yoke rod end and place the bearing in the steering arm. This would double the shear strength of the pin and equally load the bearing top and bottom. Just a thought.
Thanks for the feedback on the video. I agree that a yoke rod end would distribute the loads more evenly but the current design, when properly torqued does work adequately. This failure was caused by lack of torque allowing movement at the joint which lead to very rapid wear. A yoke rod end wouldn't wear close to as quickly if not sufficiently tight so it would be a better choice. But, the current approach when serviced properly will handle the application loads without a problem.
Perhaps the square section of the rudder shaft visible above the quadrant arm could be used with a dedicated clamp designed to lock the rudder against some existing, or added, structural member so that regardless of wave action it is fixed in place & stable enough for the 10 minute change out of the heim joint/bolt assy. in an emergency situation. Preventative maintenance such as upgrading to grade 8 fine thread elements is extremely wise. Kudos.
Good eye. As you observed, there is a square cut in the top of the rudder post. And, if you look at the ceiling in the video you'll see an small circular port above the rudder post and a large stainless steel weldment attached to the ceiling. If there were a steering failure, this manual rudder can be dropped down the hole and allow steering from the cockpit. The only reason we don't use this in other than emergency situations is, when in rough water, the cockpit is usually awash and this would bring in a fair amount of salt water. Not enough to be dangerous but salt water isn't great for the gear so we won't do it if there are other options. What we did do is put a wrench on the top of the rudder which Jen held. We expected that would work great but Jennifer found that it was hard to brace well enough to stay in place and not just swing with the rudder. I suspect a longer lever arm on there would have given more leverage and made it easier to brace against a bulkhead. It's our goal to never change a rudder part when underway and I think all the design changes we have put in place will solve any problem we have seen thus far. If we do get stuck with a need to stabilize the rudder for longer periods we'll use the emergency manual rudder which is consistent with your idea.
Excellent video as always, and now for my 2 cents worth, we have a natural propensity to work from the top down. But I think that if you look at it, it would have been easier to install the bolt upside down. You would of course need a deeper socket, but I'm sure it would have taken far less effort.
I agree. I've been resistant to do that because it doesn't look as neat and I have to work overtop of that area and don't like catching clothing on the bolt but I probably should just put up with those small disadvantages since it would be easier to service with that change.
I could not imagine attempting that replacement with 20' seas pushing on that rudder. Also, maybe you should look into a "Sponsored by Loctite" partnership.
I wish we had taken a video of that change. The approach we planned to take is that Jennifer would have the rudder held with a large wrench and I would slip out the old bolt and drop in the new one. But when the bolt came out the rudder swung hard over dragging Jennifer along. In rough water this 1 person, 10 min bolt change became a long and fairly challenging task for two people.
@@MVDirona I always have a sea anchor when making any passage. Deploying the sea anchor will face your bow into the waves and wind and takes the tension and loading off the rudder. This makes it possible to change components without the rudder slamming to and fro. Some people don't like sea anchors but if you need to repair rudders, dagger boards or stabilizers they are worth their weight in gold.
That's a good suggestion and there are a bunch of solutions to this problem. The first is to avoid having to do steering work underway. Clearly that is the top choice from a safety and ease of use perspective and we think that the design changes we have put in place will eliminate the problems we have seen. But, it's still possible an issue will arise. If we do nee to stabilizer the rudder at sea there are a few choices. One is the emergency hand tiller. In the video, you'll notice a small circular portal above the rudder post and attached above the rudder a large stainless steel weldment. This is the emergency rudder and it can be taken up into the cockpit and dropped down through the opening to manually control the rudder. This work well and is fairly easy but, in rough weather, the deck is awash and some salt water will come in through the opening. Not enough to be dangerous but enough that we will only do it in an emergency. Still, it's nice to have it. Your suggestion is similar to the emergency hand tiller in that your suggestion is effective but has some overhead. Deploy a sea anchor requires some care and recovery is reported to be quite challenging. So, for big problem, the sea anchor is a great solution but for quick jobs, the sea anchor recovery time would be sufficiently discouraging that we would look for lower overhead solutions like a wrench with a long extension for increased leverage. I agree that the sea anchor is an excellent safety device that can get boats safely through survival storms and could help with emergency service tasks.
@@MVDirona the emergency hand tiller is an excellent device but using one in a storm is best done with the bow into the wind like a sea anchor or you can get very banged up because of the loading against the rudder. A recovery float on the sea anchor works well for retrieval but deploying the sea anchor if not done correctly can be problematic. You are correct, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. You two having spare parts saved you from a scary situation. The redundancy of the Nordhavn engineering is praiseworthy as is your attention to maintenance. Did you still have the fuel bladders on the stern with fuel when you noticed the wear on the steering components? I love crossing oceans in good ships that are well maintained. As I stated I always have a sea anchor as a precaution and have used them. Having the bow into the wind in a storm makes the ride a lot more comfortable for fixing things like damaged rudders or torn sails and it even helps with seasick crew members.
This was day 8 of the trip and we had just pumped all the deck fuel below into the main tanks so, at this point, we nothing on deck and very close to full fuel tanks below deck.
That's a great question -- it was challenging. The approach we took was to put a large adjustable wrench on the rudder post with a pipe extension to hold the rudder straight. Jennifer held that assembly and I pulled the bolt. The weight of the boat in the large seas were putting massive forces into the rudder so, even though Jennifer was strong enough to hold the wrench securely, there wasn't enough friction between Jennifer and the floor so the wrench and Jennifer swung back and force. I then used by feet to help hold Jennifer which slowed the swinging greatly but still didn't fully eliminate it. I dropped the bolt back in as the rudder gently swung past straight. Overall, the process only took 10 min but it wasn't easy.
@@MVDirona Thanks. I can only imagine the uncomfortable challenge that was to shut down steering and swap out the part in those conditions. BZ to the two of you! Fair winds!
Thank you for all that you guys do! You’re gonna cost me about a million dollars or more in the near future! I can’t wait! I would love to see footage of the autopilot working the rudder is heavy seas. Also, is Nordhavn incorporating any of your ideas in their builds these days? One more question, I would love to see your idea spare parts list that you carry. Cheers!
Video taping the rudder in action in heavy seas is a great idea. When they are quartering from the stern, the rudder works hard and the creaking from the thick aluminum plate the rudder mechanical systems are mounted upon is a bit concerning. It's all strong enough and does fine in tough conditions but it does work hard. Nordhavn is always advancing their designs. If you look at our boat and compare it with one that splashes this year, you will see numerous changes and improvements some of which are fairly substantial. Some of the changes probably do come from our experience. One of the many things that sets Nordhavn apart from some of the competitor offerings is they have nearly 600 boats to learn from and it makes a difference. You are right that spares requires some judgement. We're proud that we have never been delayed waiting for parts, never have had to redirect a trip to get parts, and haven't had to cancel or change plans. The boat just keeps running. Here's a write up on our spares strategy: mvdirona.com/2018/02/managing-spares/. The article also includes the spares list from that time.
That was fantastic. You taught a good lesson. One question for me I would have cleaned off the threads on the shaft before replacing the bearing. None 5he less a fantastic lesson in boat health.
It's never a mistake to clean more on any mechanical job. But, if you look closely, you'll see the threads are pretty clean. Still, on cleanliness, I agree that more is usually better and, in some jobs, like fuel system maintenance, it's absolutely vital.
You could have turned the bolt upside down with the nuts on top so you could use the torque wrench. It's not going to come undone very easily. Nice job changing it out.
Yes, I did think of putting the bolt upward which would make it much easier to torque up but I don't find it as aesthetically pleasing and it tends to catch more on clothing when reaching over it. But, yes, it would work well.
Small suggestion, clean the surface beforehand because you’re setting the new stuff in the “dirt” from the worn out end. That will prevent introducing contamination to new bearing surfaces.
Hi there. I'm not sure if other more brilliant minds than mine have noticed or not but that joint design seems particularly inefficient. One can notice almost immediately that the force 'vectors' involved occur on the underside or lower part of your steering arm. However, it seems almost obvious to me that that the horizontal forces both in and out, provided by the hydraulic cylinder need to be divided equally into an upper component and the existing lower one. Thus the shape of a much larger casting could be forged resembling a short fork with each leg containing its ownTeflon bearing where the bolt would slide through one fork+bearing, the steering arm, the lower fork+bearing and then the lockout in that order. Of course this part would be more expensive but I can't see how it would not wear for many more hours than the original design. Thanks for allowing my input.
You are right that the simplest attachment does cause considerable side forces. The bearing and assembly strength is sufficient that this design works but aligned forces are definitely less hard on bearings.
That rod end has a grease fitting. I have worked on heavy aircraft for 30 years and I saw the fitting on the rod end you took off. We call those grease fittings, flush fittings. greasing the rod end bearing would help its service life.
I see the mark on the rod end you are looking at but it's not a grease fitting. Flush fittings, at least the ones I've seen, have a ball valve at the top that the grease is injected past. These fittings using dry PTFE layer as lubricate. I suspect that the small hole you saw is where the PTFE is injected during manufacture. You are right that greased rod ends do exist and they do last better under high loads than PTFE bearings. Thanks for the data point.
I use Nylon Lock nuts with good success on many applications. Not sure how they would go in your circumstance. The lock tight and secondary locking nut looks to work well. Maybe contact Maritimo in Australia, They are known for their offshore Racing steering components.
Thanks for the positive feedback. No, we didn't consider submitting to the Nordhavn Film Festival. Some of those entries are VERY professionally produced -- better than we can do -- and I suspect that fixing things isn't ever going to be the winning entry :-).
I am aware that adjustable wrenches should only be used when a properly sized wrench is unavailable, but conventional auto engineering safety procedures and firms like Snap On, Mac tools, and other quality tool suppliers all state that there is a correct direction to apply force on any open ended wrench, as We saw several times during Your video torque applied in the wrong direction tends to force the wrench jaws apart and causes slight deformation of the fastener faces and jamming of the wrench which is why you had to free the wrench when it stuck, also even the best open jawed or adjustable wrench can break across the narrow jaw when high torque loads are applied in the wrong direction, @ 250ft/lbs unbraced you can be seriously injured if that happens,
Your not the first to make that point. I’m a licensed professional auto-mechanic so you can imagine I’ve had automotive trade teachers explain this too me many times. I’ve done a 9,000 hour apprenticeship so, yes, I’e had this explained to me by many seasoned and highly skilled professionals. We post to our blog (mvdirona.com/) and put videos (ruclips.net/user/mvdironafeatured) up describing our trip and showing some of the service work we have done in our years rounding the world. Literally dozens of folks like yourself have jumped in to save us from injury and explained how adjust wrenches could or should be used. I’ve had a lot of advice on this topic. But even with all that good advice, I still don’t religiously follow the “adjustable wrench rules” that are otherwise so popular. As a professional auto-mechanic, I had a 5′ high tool box with thousands of dollars in tools and yet not a single adjustable wrench. When you have 2 cubic meters of tools, you almost always have the right tool and it would be silly to accept the bulk and weaknesses of adjustable wrench. But, on a small boat, it’s not practical to have anywhere close to 2 cubic meters worth of tools and, ironically, there are a great many fasteners much larger than any found in an automotive application. Even more tools are needed on a boat. There just isn’t space for all the right tools so adjustable ends up being the only practical solution. Boats also often have a shortage of space and adjustable wrenches are bigger and more bulky so it’s often the case that the adjustable wrench can’t use used in the “right” way and the only way to move a nut is to sift it first a bit using one side of the wrench and then turn it over and use the other side. That’s why all wrenches have about a 15 degree offset on the end - it allows progress when the clearance is tight but that does require using the wrench in both directions in violation of popular advice. Having used adjustable wrenches “incorrectly” for literally decades, I’ll observe they are far stronger than conventional wisdom allows and I’ve got a great many jobs done that wouldn’t have been possible following all the rules. And, I’ve never had an adjustable wrench fail. They are far more reliable than conventional wisdom but I do agree they are worth avoiding and, if they must be used, they should be used with care.
I wonder if you packed the rod end with (ptfe?) grease, if you could exponetilally avoid the wear factor? (Not sure if my terminology is right as I am a dummy boat-wise.)
There are rod ends that come equipped with grease fittings and can be greased and I'm told they last better in high load operation. The type of fitting I'm using is dry with a layer of PTFE as a lubricant. These don't require lubricant and none is recommended but it would seem logical that they might last longer if oiled as long as the lubricant didn't capture contaminants that lead to more wear. Your suggestion probably would work but even without doing anything they will last for 1,500 to 2,500 hours of operation. I would prefer longer but it's not bad.
💙 Is there a big difference in boat stability and fuel consumption with full tanks versus, for example, one-sixth of fuel in the tanks? If you sail short distances in an area with calm seas, spend more time in marinas and at anchor, and the possibility of refueling is every 20 miles, is it smarter to fill only 1000 liters rather than all 6500 liters?
More fuel is generally more stable than less fuel since the fuel is stored so low in the boat. The more you carry the lower the boats center of buoyancy and the stiffer it is to rolling. The difference is technically fairly large but, at least on Dirona, the boat is Catagory A Ocean capable on empty tanks or full so the safety the boat isn't compramized at any fuel levels. More data on boat stability here: mvdirona.com/2019/03/deck-fuel-and-vessel-stability/
Another job done off the list,shame that replacement upgrade didn't fit,i,loved the top rudder bearing upgrade that's what should,be been standard, is that bearing off the shelf or a one off custom ,I guess you keep that old worn tie one till you got the new spare replacement could come in to play again as a get home,
Yes, it would have been nice if I could have installed the FK Bearings SJM12T. It's a good strong bearing and would have been perfect for this application. I've got a new part from the original part manufacturer (Sea Star Solutions) installed right now but we'll want to get a couple of spares. I'm investigating three options: 1) get 2 to 3 more from the Sea Star Solutions (it's not as strong as the FK Bearings part but it's as originally delivered), 2) asking a machine shop to drill out a SJM12T from 3/4"-16TPI to 7/8"-14TPI (I suspect that is what Sea Star does to produce their OEM part), and 3) I've got a request in to FK Bearings to do a 3/4" ball with a 7/8"-14TPI thread (they do 100s of bearings and might be willing to add this to their list of available sizes). Because this is critical component, we will get spares before heading back out cruising next spring.
You are right that the larger hole would leave less metal but that is the way the Sea Star part is made. Their 7/8"-14TPI part has exactly the same external dimensions as the 3/4"-16TPI part. If I drill and tap it to 7/8" the wall thickness will be the same as the Sea Star part but, you are right, it less wall thickness than standard rod ends.
@@MVDirona not wall thickness or external size the thread grooves I was meaning would not be as deep can't replace what's already been drilled with first thread cut or more precisely the thread ridge
Good point. 1/8" might not be enough to be able to fit the full thread. That's only 1/16" on radius. I'll wait and see if the manufacturer is willing to do a 7/8"-14tpi version for me and, if not, I'll just stick with the stock part. Thanks for your thoughts.
One real important thing, we used extensions to increase torque, not cheater bars. You should get an extension that will allow you to adjust torque to middle 80% of scale (25-225 ft/lbs). 🤗
I'm not following the problem with adding leverage to the end of a torque wrench to reduce the effort required to pull up to the required torque. The torque wrench doesn't know that I'm applying the force to the handle from further away. What's the concern?
MV Dirona MV Dirona the idea is to add distance at hub end allowing you to stay away from top or bottom 10% of wrench capacity. When I worked on NuclearWeapons I had to attend school on torque wrench. Check this out m.ruclips.net/video/hqiISStnb9k/видео.html with a 6” extension you wouldn’t need a cheater & probably stay under 225 ft/lbs... have to do the math which is shown on video. Snapon used to make extensions & their book has formula as well.
We'll this isn't quite nuclear weapons but Ares 15008 would probably give the clearance needed to get a torque wrench on there. I also understand your point on staying away from the top and bottom 10% of a torque wrenches range. That make total sense. Thanks for the tip.
Excited to do all of the “messing about” boats. Was thinking with all the various types of locking bolts, do you think a standard bolt with loctite is the best solution? I had to think that equivalent torque on the locking nut is irrelevant beyond snug... Nice that Nordhavn to have the bolt schedule handy, noticed Jennifer’s seasick watch? Anyway hope all is well with you both. We’re working on electronics layout on 6081 and most items at yard.
Standard bolt with Loctite is an answer but lots of others would work equally well. The only one I feel strongly about is that any form of retention that depends upon lining up holes rather than torquing is probably a bad idea. The loads on these components is incredibly high so I would go with grade 8 bolts torqued to spec as a starting requirement and then I would add some form of retention.
That's' a super good question. I wish we had taken a video of that change. The approach we planned to take is that Jennifer would have the rudder held with a large wrench and I would slip out the old bolt and drop in the new one. But when the bolt came out the rudder swung hard over dragging Jennifer along with it. She's not heavy enough and can't generate enough floor friction to stop the rudder movement. Both of us together can hold it but then I don't have a hand free to install the botl. In rough water this normally 1 person, 10 min bolt change became a long and fairly challenging task for two people.
@@MVDirona Just curious, do you have an emergency tiller on board? I see the rudder post has a place for one. Also, I must add, you are living my dream. Fair winds.
Yes, you are correct the top of the rudder post is machined for an emergency tiller. It's just visible over my head in some parts of the video. A cover is opened in the cockpit deck and the emergency tiler is dropped through and attached to the rudder shaft. The only downside of this approach is that, in rough water, the deck is awash and it will bring salt water down below into the Laz. The volume brought below isn't dangerous but it's not great for the gear so I'll only use the emergency tiller in emergencies.
Hiya, you said there was 'Locktight' on all three nuts before dis-asembly yet none on the first two fitted. You did not replace the vertical bolt even though it was showing signs of wear in that the coating was worn off. Why?
There was Loctite on the previous two nuts and that's the residue you saw on the bolt. The grade 8 bolt has no wear since, if properly installed, it's tight and never shifts or moves at all. I do have spares of the bolt on board so could change it if appeared to be warranted.
It would certainly never be a mistake to replace that bolt. And, given that it's a safety critical part operating under high torque, I think your right and it's good advice to replace it.The bolt, when properly installed will not move so there will be no wear from use.The black coating isn't functional so it coming off due to friction as the nut is installed or removed isn't a problem.
Good call out. No, there is no way to pin the steering centrally and we once did have to change the main bolt that joins the hydraulic ram to the steering arm while underway in a storm and it was quite challenging. On our first attempt with a large wrench holding the rudder, Jennifer had the strength to hold it but not the friction with the floor so her entire body swung back and forth. We eventually came up with a system where Jen and I both held the rudder and I kept one arm free to install the bolt. It was clumsy, required us to wait until just the right moment, and then move fast when the time was right but we did get it done.
Good detailed video... thank you. But there was no way when you took it apart that nut was done up to 250ftlbs. Trying to achieve that in a rolling sea with Adjustable wrenches could well result in injury. 250..... is over kill.
@@MVDirona when I said too much... I meant too much to be safely managed with the tools that you had in a rolling sea. I know and 8.8 can handle the torque. Nothing worse than knocking your own front teeth out in the middle of the Atlantic. 🤣😂
Make sense. The fix we did at sea was done with the parts at hand so you'll see it was only a grade 5 bolt, it wasn't long enough for a proper lock nut, the lock nut was a used Nyloc and the bolt wasn't long enough for the nylon section to engage. But it was good enough to get us to Kinsale Ireland. Later I made the changes of adding the longer bolt, moving to grade 8 fine thread, and going to the higher torque. As you guessed, it was a bit a chore to change at sea. Our first attempt had the rudder swinging with Jennifer holding it but with not enough friction on the floor to stop the movement. Both of us together could hold the rudder but then I didn't have a hand free to replace the bolt. It require some care and patience to get that job done.
Thats a great service quality from Nordhaven. Was it incorrectly torqued or was it that the bolt had been torqued repeatedly several times and the so material had stretched? Not like you to miss the spec on the thread being different!? You don't need to torque the bottom nut to 250 ftlbs fyi.
The problem was caused by using a nut and bolt that was torqued, presumably correctly, at the factory and then drilled for cotter pin. Later when the rod end was replaced slight manufacturing tolerance differences or slight bolt stretch led to the assembly not being sufficiently tight. The solution of using a drilled nut isn't a great solution for this application and, if it is used, I think you are right and new parts and a new hole need to be drilled each time.
Nordhavn is constantly evolving and improving. Looking at the rudder upper bearing, the first design was a ball bearing approach that is very low friction under load and very long life if properly greased. There were some where salt water had dripped on them and they rusted up so Nordhavn went to a Delrin design. It has many nice characteristics but it's a wear item and needs to be replaced periodically. The approach I've taken of going with an Oilite has some characteristics I really like. I'm not sure if Nordhavn will elect to adopt this approach but they do take owner input and are constantly improving the fleet. A new N52 purchased today is a better boat than we bought in 2010.
All good, but the tools you are using have a specific way they are used. The adjustable wrench grips the nut or bolt tighter if used properly. The second thing is you should be torquing the nut not the bolt. Torque the bolt can give you a false reading. Just being helpful.
The adjustable wrench use has attracted great attention. There is one direction where the wrench is strongest but I don't always follow the rules but I do still know them.
Great video! Did you manage to find the steering rod end (sprintcar style) with the correct thread size? PS: "Nordhavn inventoried the entire boat part list befor annoucing that one of the exhaust...." reminded me that scene from apollo 13 when they had to solve de CO2 problem and the folks from NASA helped to "fit a square peg into a round hole"
I didn't end up getting a alternative part I like. The sizing on this particular rod end is fairly unusual with a 7/8" female thread but a 3/4" hole in the spherical bearing. I'm actually fine with how long the OEM version lasts. They usually do 1,000 to 2,000 hours. My complaint is they are roughly 3x more expensive than they should be. I ended finding a source that was 1/2 as expensive so I bought three and consider it a solved problem even though there are certainly alternative parts out there that would last longer and some might even be cheaper. The solution I found was basically good enough.
Yes, it's fine and has been running this way for 3 years and more than 1,000 hours but running with less torque would be fine as well. It needs to absolutely never shift or slip and 100 to 150 ft lbs is adequate. I chose the torque setting as the rating for that particular Grade 8 fastener type but there is nothing magic about it and I'm sure that less would be fine.
Two reason: The natural beauty of Norway really is out of this world special and, in the winter, some sites are even better. The second reason is just about everyone we know has spent time in the Med but few have done a winter in Norway. We wanted the experience. For some reason, the massive number of boats in the Med make it a less exciting destination for us. It's a pretty unusual experience to be able to stand on the ice in front of the boat. But, to your point, the cold of a winter in Norway is more work and does require more clothing than the Med.
No, they aren't servicable but they aren't very expensive given they are a heavy duty precision part. You can buy them from the steering manufacturer for under $150 and, for standard sized parts, the best are available for about 1/2 that.
The fittings used in many aircraft applications and all the race car applications I've seen use a Teflon self-lubrication layer and don't include grease fittings. There are similarly sized parts that do come with grease fittings. Because the part used in this application is an uncommon size with 7/8" threads in the shaft end but only 3/4" opening in the ball end, I don't have many choices available so I ended up sticking with the manufacturer supplied part even though it's roughly 2x the cost of directly sourced part.
Never use cheater bar with torque wrench. If you do that you change the torque value (Lenght x Force= Torque) . You have probably raised the value over 325 + ft.lbs , the max torque of this torque wrench you are right is 250 ft.lbs. Exceeding max torque capacity of the torque wrench can dammage and decalibrate. Understand in this situation where you have limited access and tools and application has to be made, we do our best. Also never click 2-3 times, each time you raised again the torque value. Unloading the tension after using it your right ! If you have to use a cheater bar in some situation here is the the formula T x L / L +A = TW. Let’s say T = 250 ft.lbs X L = lenght of your torque ( from middle of square dr to middle of handle ) Divided by L + A , A means lenght of the cheater bar ( from middle torque wrench handle to middle of handle on the cheater bar). Let’s say your L is 20 in. and you cheater bar is 12 in. T = 250 ft.lbs. 250 x 20 = 5000 / 20 + 12 = 32 TW = 156 ft.lbs to set on your torque wrench. Hope this help. Thx again for your video, I also learned a lot from your side and will pay more attention of this part in the futur on my sailboat.
Thanks for the comment. The formula you reference is for when adding an extension onto the working end of torque wrench and it's important. When adding length and leverage to the pulling end of the torque wrench, as long as the extension is above the pivot point where torque is measured, it does not effect the torque reading. That's a good point on not torquing at or above the max limits of the torque wrench being used. I'll keep that in mind. Others have raised the same point about clicking 2 or 3 times.I am a licensed automechanic in Canada and operated professionally for many years and, in my training, that's what I was taught to do. I've watched a lot of auto and race mechanics and it's a pretty standard approach with them as well. When torquing cylinder heads, many professional do a second pass through the torque sequence to ensure that all are at proper torque. I've rebuilt an awful lot of engines over the years and all the heads were torqued that way. I worked for quite a few years for a General Motors dealer and, since most service is being done this way, if it was causing problems or increasing warranty costs, I would have thought GM would have released a service bulletin recommending against it.
Aircraft steel won't wear as bad. Also using a crescent wrench backwards can break it. If it doesn't break it will strip the adjusting screw. Since the bolt looks bigger you can have the shaft machined to fit the new stronger bearing. As a mechanic you should never exceed the recommended torque.
I don't exceed the recommended torque. It's a 3/4" grade 8 bolt. The rod ends wear well -- they usually can due 1,500 to 2,000 hours. The failure is wear at the bolt attaching the rod end to the rudder. It shouldn't wear at all but was insufficiently torqued. The manufacturer had drilled the nut and bolt to be cotter pinned and, over time or possibly due to slight differences in tolerance of different rod ends this "correct" location became insufficiently tight allowing movement which leads to rapid wear. My mistake for not noticing this. The rod ends last well and the bolts last indefinitely as long as properly torqued. If they are loose, very rapid wear can set in. The "crescent wrench backward" point is a popular one to point out. I have a multi-decade experiment underway to test the theory that adjustable wrenches fail and/or strip nuts if not used in the right direction. So far, I've not been able to reproduce that failure mode.
That's not how you double nut something in that last step, but otherwise good to watch. Also, no it doesn't need to be the same torque to be effective.
The torque selected was the recommendation of fastener so it's not the required torque but the torque they can support. I agree that effective double nutting doesn't depend upon using the maximum torque specification of the fastener manufacturer but there isn't anything wrong with using it.
I use whichever tool is most convenient and quick. With good wrenches at normal loadings, there is no problem with wrench flexing even when not using the box end. If the loads are high, I'll use the best solution I have for that fastener but it's normally not the primary focus for me.
I work on high scale data center infrastructure design including networking systems, power distribution, cooling systems, and low level software. Here's a video that talks about many of the things I was working on: ruclips.net/video/AyOAjFNPAbA/видео.html.
250 is way overkill for that. That nut and bolt may take the 250lbs, but that eye swivel fitting wont take the compression. You are squashing and distorting the swivel when you compress it to much. Then it will not be the same shape as the Teflon inside of it. You will cause pre mature wear from over tightening.
I think you are right that it's more torque than absolutely needed. The grade 8 bolt is fine at that torque and the rod end lasts the same 1,500 to 2,000 hours with the high torque as it did when previously not done up sufficiently tight so it appears the torque doesn't impact the rod end life. But, I agree, 250 ft lbs is more than needed. It's a design where insufficient torque is very dangerous and leads to very fast wear so I want it on the high side but, you are right, 250 ft lbs is more than absolutely needed.
I love your channel, and I actually attended your talk at Re:Invent 2016 in Vegas. Werner was partying like a wild man at that DJ party, at the conclusion of the conference. Good times. I’m working on restoring an old steel sailboat from 1953, and I would love to learn more about your equipment/systems monitoring approach. I’m able to engineer any SW/HW configuration you recommend. Your gauge visualization makes so much sense. As a Techie, I am drawn to that... Is there a way I can get in contact with you over email to discuss? Thanks, mike
That's great you were there at the re:Invent talk in 2016. On the boating stuff, you'll find most details up on mvdirona.com and, if there is something that is not covered, you can post questions there and I usually get to them pretty quickly.
Yes, that would work and when I was a licensed mechanic I had one. Sadly I know longer have a couple cubic meters of tools and the crows foot didn't make the trip on this small boat :-).
It would definitely be warmer. But we like Amsterdam and wanted to stay in the Baltic region until fairly late in the year. It's a bit more than 1,500 nautical miles to get to the Med from the Baltic region which is just under a week running 24x7 but the shorter good weather gaps available in the winter wouldn't support that. So, we decided to stay in Amsterdam which is a very cool city and a fun place to call home for a while. We may find we don't really enjoy the crowds in the med and actually prefer it further north. We'll head south to the Med for the first time next year and find out.
I feel pretty good about the security of the current system but there have been suggestions to add lock washers, lock nuts, or to lock wire. I've never put a lock washer between two nuts but it seems like it seems like a reasonable approach.
Not pure engineering and none of my degrees carry much weight around boats or boat service but I do have a Masters of Math from the University of Waterloo and Bachelors of Science from University of Victoria. Both focused on Computer Science: mvdirona.com/jrh/Resume/Resume.pdf.
The part will function without safety issue for thousands of hours and I believe it to be an adequate part for intended purposes. The reason it is best changed in the 1,000 to 2,000 hour range is wear introduces excess free play in the steering. This is not a safety issue but can cause the autopilot to hunt. I agree that greater longevity would be preferable but having searched the market quite extensively, there doesn't appear to be one. The sizing of this part is fairly uncommon and, as a consequence, replacement parts are available in less variety and I was unable to find a superior performing component. My eventual conclusion was I would just have spares on board and change them when needed. They don't fail rapidly so it's not much of a hassle to deal with the part. The component is supplied to Nordhavn as part of the Teleflex SeaStar steering system.
I dream of owning a older Nordhavn that a guy on a nursing salary can afford and cruising the coastline out of Seattle. I have a few mechanical skills but am concerned with being overwhelmed by an older boats maintenance. Obviously if a boat is well taken care of age is probably not a concern but what would your limits be. Example: 20 yr old boat >10k hours etc... thanks
The Seattle area is an incredible boating region. So many destinations nearby. The best way to be happy with a boat is to only buy when you are ready to use it nearly every weekend and sticking within your budget so the problems that will come with time aren't an excessive burden. On the technical side, it's not that hard if you are patient, willing to read, and logical. Just about any problem can be solved and I've always joked that a motivated, patient and logical person can do better than even some professionals.
250 ft/lb too much for that bolt, using a cheater bar isn’t a good idea for torquing anything. Also the torque should be applied to the nut. Good idea with the dbl nuts good piece of mind. Love your boat thank you cruise on
I agree that 250 ft/lb is more than is needed for the fastener but it's is compliant with the manufacturer specs for that Grade 8 3/4" nut and bolt assembly. I agree that accurate torques can only be achieved on the nut. I've heard from many that using an extension on a torque wrench is a problem but given the torque wrench measures torque between handle and the drive end, I don't see a mechanism to introduce inaccuracy. It can't tell the difference between a very strong hand on the handle or a weak hand with more leverage. The torque measurement is made at the end furthest from the handle. Using extensions is common practice in heavy equipment maintenance. Thanks for the advice and the comments on the video.
It's not possible ,the inner part is bigger in height designed to not move top and bottom face locks on the rudder control arm and the washer of the tightening nuts an bolts rated for 8 tonne that inner bearing sleave could take 10 tonne of compression force easily the outer tie rod shoulder hoop is smaller in height that's what moves and it's free to move and swivel has no tighten pressure on it from the bolt and nut
The bearing is definitely not being compressed but you are right that lower torque would work equally well. The judgement call is what is "enough"? The failure we saw shows what isn't enough. I chose to use the bolt manufacture spec.
The device you're changing is called a "heim joint" or a "Heim Rod end". For Safety's sake, I'd suggest aircraft grade instead of automotive grade. There are lots of sources for these parts, but I'd look at Wick's: aircraftproducts.wicksaircraft.com/viewitems/hiem-joints-rod-ends-for-motorsports/female-rod-end-bearings
The part I was attempting to install are stainless steel and support a static radial load of 29,310 lbs so they actually are pretty strong. The installed part has a 3/4" hole with a female 7/8"-14 TPI RH which is not available from the source you referenced (Wicks Aircraft) but thanks for passing on the link.
If it were me and I had the part, I would also replace the Bolt that the bearing goes on.... Perhaps that comes from my aviation background.... Or perhaps a dye test or magniflux test.... or however you spell it. Maybe I'm just into overkill Lol's
We do have several of the bolts in our spares storage and they are sufficiently inexpensive that changing them is cheaper than magnifluxing them. We're well within the torque specs of the fastener so chose not to replace it but, given the low cost, your idea of replacing it would be inexpensive insurance.
It amazing how important this is to some folks. I've never found it an issue. Either adjustable wrenches have improved or I've just been lucky but it's never been an issue.
Soo... Having 2 fairly large adjustable wrenches takes up less room and adds less weight to the boat than just having 2 of the proper sized wrenches..? As a mechanic. I can assure you that adjustable wrenches are a good bit heavier than a regular wrench of the same size... Especially larger ones like those. Their overall dimensions are also larger than a regular wrench of equal size... Also. As a side note. You can put more force on the torque wrench if you push than you can if you pull on it... That woulda been SO much easier had you pushed from the side she's recording on rather than pulling from the side you were on.
I'm also a professional mechanic and worked for 3 years at a Chevrolet dealer and 3 years at an exotic car repair shop. I had a 5' tall snap on toolbox that weighted 100s of pounds. Even with vast amounts of toolbox space and no obvious limit on the weight I could carry I had no adjustable wrenches. I don't have space for that vast number of tools and, making it slightly worse, the boat has a large selection of fasteners larger than those found on Chevrolets, Ferraris, Lamborghinis, or Alfa Romeos. Of course you are right that a correctly sized wrench is lighter and smaller than an adjustable wrench. But, ALL the needed correctly sized wrenches are vastly larger than the adjustable wrench. Space is the limitation. Economics is a factor as well. A full set of good quality tools like the one I used to have would run around $10,000. Technically I can afford it but I'm not sure I would buy them all given that I might only do some of these jobs once or perhaps never. I don't have the space for all possible tools, I don't want to afford all possible tools, and it's often the case that I wish I had more tools on the boat. Practically, there will be some jobs on the boat where an adjustable wrench ends up being a pretty reasonable solution. You also mentioned I could get more force on a torque wrench if I push it rather than pull it. I never thought of it but if I find myself unable to get enough torque on a fastener, I'll give that a try. Thanks.
@@MVDirona I do understand that. I wasn't trying to ridicule your choice of tools or anything. Looking back. My comment came off a bit snobby now that I've re read it. Sorry for that. I just kinda figured that since that particular bolt is one that's removed fairly often. It might have been both lighter and took up less storage space to just buy another wrench that's the size you need as apposed to carrying those huge adjustables everywhere with you. But I guess not. I'm sure they're handy for more than just that one job. I'm more in the diesel field myself tho. Specifically construction equipment. Things like Kawasaki loaders and Gradalls and Hitachi Excavators and so on. So I get that the tools and the nuts and bolts they're used to remove can get pretty big. One of my wrenches on my work truck cost almost as much as a small cheap car. Lol. So I get that it's expensive as well. If I were to sell all my tools for the same price I paid for em. I could probably retire soon. I also have a camper so I get that space is at a premium. I have ALL my tools stored in my work truck. It's sort of a specialized truck in that it has pressurized cabinets to keep dust out when I'm traveling on job sites. There's a place for all my tools and equipment. But I do still have to consider storage space as well as weight so I kinda get how it can be a pain in the ass. Especially in a commercial vehicle because DOT is so strict and you have to be under a certain weight limit. I'm pretty sure my truck is like RIGHT under the limit. Lol.
@@MVDirona I do have to say tho. You are probably the CLEANEST and most meticulous mechanic I have EVER seen. Lol. I'm no slob by any means but I'm also nowhere near as meticulous as you. Lol.
Appreciate your response and I gotta admit that the boat is a lot bigger than your pickup so I probably do have space. But it's a priorities thing. The boat is a lot smaller than your house and we live here. Everything of ours has to fit on the boat so space is a bit constrained. I like the idea of using positive pressure to limit the ingress of dirt into your mobile tool boxes. Cool idea. Thanks for the comment on me working without much mess. I especially appreciate hearing that from a professional mechanic. I'm a computer guy these days so only do the mechanical work I need to keep the boat running well. I appreciate the dialog. That bolt
Yes, we can steer the boat manually but it's a last ditch approach where the large stainless weldment above my head is taken down, brought up to the cockpit and a small circular opening is open in the cockpit floor allowing the weldment to be slid down and attached to the steering shaft. It'll work but it has the downside of allowing water from on deck down below. In rough water, the deck is always awash so this wouldn't be ideal but it would work and get the job done. Your idea of using a rod end with a spherical joint equipped with a grease fitting is a good one. In my time around race cars, we've only used the Teflon bearings but I could imagine that we could get longer life out of a metal bearing part. Unfortunately this is an odd size where just about every 3/4" rod end has a 3/4" hole and 3/4-16TPI threads but this unit is 3/4" hole with 7/8-14TPI. I suspect they had a rod end manufacturer do a custom manufacturing run where 3/4" rod ends are bored out bigger since the external dimensions are identical.
You seem to be a smart feller and all but you put too much faith in loctite... I would recommend a lock nut and or a lock washer along with loctite.. Being as isolated as you are at times, redundancy is a must
This guy is my new marine maintenance hero. Unlike me he never procrastinates a task-in-hand, he's a bearer for detail and like me keeps his immediate workspace clinically clean. Although, I did frown upon the use of adjustable spanners, which he did justify his reason's for their role. Bravo.
Thanks!
Truly love watching your videos and am envious of your intellect. Thank you.
Thanks for the feedback on the videos.
This man is very smart and deals correctly with what is basically a boat steering design problem.
That steering arm that road end attaches should have been a Y yoke type machined from single metal block.
The reason that rod end bearing wears so quick is the lateral forces of pushing and pulling on a bolt that is held only on one side of rod end, in which no matter how tight that forces are angled with bolt and steering arm hole axis. Even more sad scenario would be if bolt got loose and made the hole on arm larger with wear.
A Y yoked arm end would hold and keep forces on axis better with top and bottom bolt holes. That would make rod end bearing life many times longer.
There is no question that a y-yoked design would wear better. But the current design with unbalanced loads last 1,500 to 2,000 hours which isn't that bad.
Your point that an insufficiently well torqued bolt wears dangerously fast on this design is an important one. I can confirm you are right: if the bolt isn't tight, the wear can get dangerous fast.
Hi: I enjoyed this video because it raises a lot of engineering design questions. It would make a great group project for some new engineering students. Start all the way from the beginning with forces transmitted to that arm from the rudder and the hydraulic actuator.
Trying to repair that in a storm must have been a dreadful experience. Glad your safe. Keep up the maintenance videos. They're great fun to watch because we don't have to work in those cramped spaces!
Hey thanks for the feedback.
I'll bet you and your students would come up with a design that doesn't put so much sheer load on that fastener. The loads on the rudder system are amazingly high. But, a 3/4" grade 8 bolt if properly tightened does seem adequate for the job. I personally would prefer a clevis on the hydraulic cylinder rod end.
Well James,you did it again, with Jennifer behind the camera you had my full attention thru the whole video,amazing to see how you made that mechanical work with that steering “thing” I hope you can forgive for not choosing the correct word for that metal thing.
When I see you doing your thing/things,with your lovely boat,it’s like an episode of “Boat maintenance for dummies” in this case I’m the “dummy”
As a Swede I like that you make use of the invention from Mr.Johan Petter Johansson from which he had the patent in1891-1892 the wrench,and the adjustable wrench,they can still be used successfully in this day and age.
You made all this happen without the watchful eye of Mr.Spitfire. :) :) :) From a Swedish fan. :) :) :)
Now that you mention it, you're right that Spitfire didn't make an appearance in this video. He usually drops in find out what we are up to when we go down there.
I didn't know the inventor of the adjustable wrench was a Swede. Thanks for passing that along.
You are welcome.
Breaking out the ol' Saskatchewan Socket set! Enjoying the new maintenance videos!
Thanks for the feedback on the video.
Love these detailed maintenance videos. Thank you for taking the time to put together and share. Saving up for an older Nordhaven so all tips/tricks and learned from experience videos are very helpful.
One of the nice things about buying a Nordhavn is they are both heavily built and the components chosen are strong. Nordhavn's require some maintenance but you don't have to waste time upgrading parts not appropriate for the application or correcting design errors. Just maintenance.
i know Im asking the wrong place but does anyone know of a trick to log back into an instagram account..?
I was stupid lost the account password. I would love any tips you can offer me
@Mohamed Anthony Instablaster =)
@Matthias Nickolas thanks for your reply. I got to the site through google and I'm in the hacking process now.
Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Matthias Nickolas It worked and I now got access to my account again. Im so happy:D
Thanks so much you saved my ass !
Some may see the OCD as a bad thing, but I have spent my life trying to instill a little OCD in those I have taught. Do a job right one time has been my motto for over 50 years. Well done.
I'm far from perfect by that measure but that is definitely the goal.
I must admit after you mentioned the nuts were torqued to 250 ft lbs then you pulled out the Crescent wrenches I Lol'd. Appreciate the uploads. I plan on doing this myself in the next 5-6 years.
Yeah, adjustable wrenches aren't awesome but when everything you own has to fit in a few hundred square feet, some compromises have to be made. I'm actually pretty impressed with the load these wrenches seem able to support but, yes, it is inelegant.
Y'all got brains, and true grit. Just a great combo. Wonderful watching y'all work and travel.
Thanks for the video feedback.
Great work James. When I was an apprentice engineer I failed a practical assessment for using an adjustable wrench the wrong way round. Sliding jaw always faces the pressure! That's one I'll never forget.
The first rule of professional mechanics is don't use adjustable wrenches. The next rule is only use them in the proper direction. I violated both :-).
When I was a professional auto mechanic I had a 5' tall Snap On tool box without a single adjustable wrench. Boat and the space limitations of living on a boat force some compromises.
What a great couple you are just found this and have been watching all your vids Thank you Paul
Thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated.
Thanks for these technical videos. The information is always great.
Thanks for watching!
Good winterproject to keep the boat in a good shape. About twenty years ago i raced motorbikes for a few years, just for fun and on low budget. When i had to get my license the instructors said to us that we should clean our bike after every practice session. The reason why, was that if you did that you would see if there was something wrong with your bike! So you could maintain it directly. It was a good lesson for me, so i agree with you, keep the boat clean and you see if there is something leaking or in this case, the rod end! Maybe you can look here in holland for a new spare part that you are looking for that will last better then the original one! Enjoy your stay!
I used to work on race cars and we always said that a clean car is a fast car. Nothing shows problems that could end a race faster than having everything clean. I completely agree with you and, as a consequence, we try to keep the mechanical spaces clean and the bilge dry. If there is problem, cleanliness helps us see it earlier.
Thank you for sharing. Love to see you guys working on your boat and sharing your experiences. ❤❤❤❤❤
Thanks Sasha!
Nice job. I really appreciate your videos. It's good to see someone else who does all of his own maintenance and repairs.
Thanks for the feedback.
Good video Don't Give Up up on the replacement part because of the snafu with the thread as the theory is sound as with the Rudder bearing upping the spec for Greater durability is a very good idea. The saving in time and effort and standard replacement parts is worth the trial and error to achieve greater reliability.
Yes, I think you are right. I've got a request in to FK bearings to see if they are wiling to take make 4 with 7/8"-14 TPI rather than the more common 3/4"-16TPI. If they will do it and the price isn't too crazy, I'll go that way. If they aren't willing to do it, I could consider having a machine ship drill and tap out to 7/8-14TPI. I actually suspect that is what the original part supplier does as the size is fairly unusual.
A wiser man than me once said “ something over built never broke “.
Yeah, on our previous boat we had many under-sized components than failed. It's amazing how effective it is to just up-size. More engineering safety margin often drives up component reliability greatly.
Great problem solving and engineering understanding.
Thanks!
Awsome how to video! It's a shame the new and improved part did not work out for you! If it makes you feel any better, That happens to me alot! Thanks for sharing!
Yeah, it can happen but the new part was only $85 USD so not a huge loss. It looks like what Sea Star Solutions (the steering manufacturer) has done is to get a custom part made where they take a 3/4" rod end and cut 7/8"-14TPI threads into it. I can get the Sea Star Part for under $150 USD, so I may end up just doing that.
We moved from FK spherical bearings to aeronautical grade ones from Aurora Bearing in the US. Exceptional quality there
Looks like a top quality supplier. Thanks for passing that along. Unfortunately, they don't produce the unusual size we use: 3/4" bore with 7/8"-14tpi female threads.
Just came across this video and found it very interesting, however torque on nut bolt connection is an approximation depending on the friction in the threads. I'm sure you checked the manufacturer of the bolt and dry / lubricated condition will put vastly different stresses in the threads to the point that you could fail the bolt or nut. Ideally you want to stress the bolt to about 80% of yield stress which will stretch the bolt.
The most accurate way is measure the bolt length before and after tightening with a vernier or micrometer (assuming that you have one that will fit). The amount of stretch will depend on the bolt size and material and can be calculated from standard stress/strain curves.
However I do commend you for making this repair in heavy seas, I hope you kept your breakfast intact.
All true. Most of my expereince as an automotive mechanic, just uses simple torque wrench readings even though you are 100% correct in saying that is far from the most accurate approach. I have seen some performance engines and a few heavy duty diesels that toque to a given torque and then force another 1/8 of a turn (or other fixed value) into fastener to get a fixed amount of stretch.
My steering application isn't really that stressed and so that precision isn't necessarily called for (although precision never hurts). It just needs to be good and tight since there is a high rotational load on the through bolt since it's mounted off to the side rather than in a central clevis. If it's not tight and there is movement in the joint, the system fails quickly. If it's tight enough that there is some stretch in the bolt and no flex in the joint, it'll wear for the life of the boat. I suspect that 70% as tight as I torqued it would have been perfectly fine. Perhaps even 50%.
Thanks for passing along those details on fastener precision torqueing.
Really enjoying these “tutorial “ videos Thanks both
Thanks for the feedback.
Hi: Thank you for your informative video and I've learned a lot from watching you and listing as well. Hopefully, I can relay some knowledge in return. I've tried to check the comments for this but didn't see it listed so sorry if this has been suggested before. You find it much easier to torque wrench the first nut than the bolt end. Good luck experimenting with this and keep up the fun maintenance vids I love them :)
Yes, you are correct. There isn't clearance with the bolt oriented downwards but to get an accurate torque reading I should torque the nut rather than the bolt. The best solution is to re-orient the bolt upwards. I've been resistant to doing that since it is more prone to catch on clothing when I'm working in the are but I should just get over it. Thanks for the comment.
Your meticulousness reminded me of my days in the Navy, when you come on watch and make sure your plant is operating in tip top shape.
Thanks. Perhaps from my days around exotics and race cars, I like to keep the equipment clean.
I follow you on Vessel Finder. I really hoped you would dock in Delfzijl, Before you went to Vlieland. I would have visite you. Not like a crazy fan but just to have the opurtunity (spelling) to see a Nordhavn in real life for the first time in my life. I love your ship.
Greetings from the Netherlands (Veendam, Groningen)
There are few Nordhavn's in the Baltic area and if you want to see many at once, Nordhavn Europe is nearby in Southampton UK (www.nordhavneurope.com/).
Awesome video! Great seeing your problem solving skills. Reminds me of 844 days with xlc++ ;)
The IBM C++ compiler. That goes back a very long way but it was a fun project. Thanks for the reminder.
A tip when possible don’t use the open ended crescent or fixed open ended use the the circular end it will contact 6 or up to 8 points on the nut. That will reduce the chance of stripping the nut.
Yes and it probably won't surprise you that you are not the first to have pointed that out :-). I've not had any problem with slipping wrenches damaging fasteners but I agree it's best to favor that wrench orientation.
Nice job guys As always be safe n be happy
Thanks!
Thanks for these excellent videos. I am doing the same job on my Nordhavn 40, though its admittedly a smaller system. Many engineered fastener sources recommend that when using the double nut locking method that the first nut installed must be the "jam" nut and be tightened to approx 50% of the final torque. That would be 125 ft lb in your case. Then the main nut is installed second and tightened to the full torque while holding the jam nut stationary; 250 ft lb in your case.
These sources (Fastenal, for example) acknowledge this seems counter intuitive but are pretty clear to do it any other way means you achieve only a fraction of the intended locking force. I would appreciate hearing your views on this.
Thanks for the feedback. On this connection, we had a bad experience where the original castellated nut was too loose and, as a consequence, it worked in heavy seas and in just a single night wore substantially through the fastener. This lead to it loosening more which further accelerated the wear. Have a look at this picture: mvdirona.com/2017/05/steering-issue/.
The cause is the castellated doesn't have a location where the hole matches that is sufficiently tight. I should have understood this and taken action but, because it came that way from the yard, I assumed it was "right" without critical thought. The castellated nuts isn't a good approach.
Because of the poor experience above, I wanted the fastener to be tight and selected the torque that matched the grade 8 fasteners I had selected. That's where 250 ft lbs came from. Many commenters here have argued 1) less torque would have been adequate, and 2) it's impossible to get a fully correct torque reading with the torque wrench on the bolt rather than on the other side on the nut. On point 1, I think the commenters are correct and torque down in the 150 ft lb range would likely be fine but, on the other hand, the fastener is rated to 250 ft lbs and all components are fine at that torque. I think 150 ft lbs would be adequate which is to say that less than 250 is fine.
On the second problem mentioned above, putting the bolt in from the bottom would allow a more precise torque and I would recommend doing that. On your question, would I be comfortable doing up to 1/2 torque and then bringing the lock nut up to full torque? I suspect the advice you got was probably well informed but I would not be comfortable torqueing to 75 and then bringing the locknut up to 150. If you were using the higher torque setting of 250 ft lbs allowed by the parts I selected you would be using 125 ft lbs for the first nut. I probably could live with this. Generally I want that fastener torqued to the point that no flex is possible under the extraordinary loads seen on this steering part.
The 1/2 torque followed by full torque on the lock nut procedure recommended to you is not one I'm familiar with and it might work well. I'm just not familiar with that procedure and this is a fastener that is highly safety critical. I have to admit I'm a bit conservative and wouldn't want that first nut done up any less tight than 150 ft lbs (using the 3/4" grade 8 fasteners I selected).
Totally agree with all your observations. I used the "2 nut" locking method as you did until I researched the engineering and found this (amongst others):
www.boltscience.com/pages/twonuts.htm
Its counter intuitive so today checked with a couple of colleagues who are professional mechanical engineers with a shiiping company. They tell me the engineering right, esp. for high vibration areas and cyclic loads.
I am going to try it on my N40 on the tiller arm and engine mounts and watch it closely for a while. Your good experience with the method you show is comforting given your real world experience.
Thanks for your videos; a real contribution to safe and reliable boating!
The article you referenced seems credible and their reference to ISO 898-2: 2012 further reinforces their position. Thanks for posting the additional data.
There are rod ends that have oilite bearings with grease nipples on them instead of the teflon/nylon bearings that will effectively last forever if they are regularly lubricated with high pressure grease. Used to use them in an industrial setting where the rods were moving approximately 70 degrees range of motion at least 60 times per minute.
Yes, I did look at alternatives to the OEM bearings mostly because they charge 2x to 3x what is reasonable in the retail channel. The challenge is the part has a 7/8" internal rod thead but only a 3/4" opening in the spherical bearing. These are available from alternative sources but these dimensions are much less common.
I ended up finding the OEM part at a far more reasonable price so I bought 3 of them. Each of these will last 1,000 to 2,000 hours so I ended up being satisfied with this solution and stopped shopping for better bearings although, as you said, they are out there and available.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Exciting video. Exciting ship.
I do wonder though, wouldn't be better to torn turn the bolt 180° in the vertical plane so that it's possible to tighten each nut to 250 lbf•ft? D'oh. You just addressed that problem at ~33:44 in your video.
Well still exciting and what a nice ship⛴️ you have.
Yes, your right we could invert the bolt and put the nut on the top but that isn't the original design and we prefer to be able to work over the steering gear without interference with the bolt and double nuts. But, there is no question that approach would work fine.
Great video, really enjoy watching you work on the boat, it's a bit late, but i'm surprised Nordhavn engineering didn't use a yoke rod end and place the bearing in the steering arm. This would double the shear strength of the pin and equally load the bearing top and bottom. Just a thought.
Thanks for the feedback on the video. I agree that a yoke rod end would distribute the loads more evenly but the current design, when properly torqued does work adequately. This failure was caused by lack of torque allowing movement at the joint which lead to very rapid wear. A yoke rod end wouldn't wear close to as quickly if not sufficiently tight so it would be a better choice. But, the current approach when serviced properly will handle the application loads without a problem.
Perhaps the square section of the rudder shaft visible above the quadrant arm could be used with a dedicated clamp designed to lock the rudder against some existing, or added, structural member so that regardless of wave action it is fixed in place & stable enough for the 10 minute change out of the heim joint/bolt assy. in an emergency situation. Preventative maintenance such as upgrading to grade 8 fine thread elements is extremely wise. Kudos.
Good eye. As you observed, there is a square cut in the top of the rudder post. And, if you look at the ceiling in the video you'll see an small circular port above the rudder post and a large stainless steel weldment attached to the ceiling. If there were a steering failure, this manual rudder can be dropped down the hole and allow steering from the cockpit. The only reason we don't use this in other than emergency situations is, when in rough water, the cockpit is usually awash and this would bring in a fair amount of salt water. Not enough to be dangerous but salt water isn't great for the gear so we won't do it if there are other options.
What we did do is put a wrench on the top of the rudder which Jen held. We expected that would work great but Jennifer found that it was hard to brace well enough to stay in place and not just swing with the rudder. I suspect a longer lever arm on there would have given more leverage and made it easier to brace against a bulkhead.
It's our goal to never change a rudder part when underway and I think all the design changes we have put in place will solve any problem we have seen thus far. If we do get stuck with a need to stabilize the rudder for longer periods we'll use the emergency manual rudder which is consistent with your idea.
Excellent video as always, and now for my 2 cents worth, we have a natural propensity to work from the top down. But I think that if you look at it, it would have been easier to install the bolt upside down. You would of course need a deeper socket, but I'm sure it would have taken far less effort.
I agree. I've been resistant to do that because it doesn't look as neat and I have to work overtop of that area and don't like catching clothing on the bolt but I probably should just put up with those small disadvantages since it would be easier to service with that change.
I could not imagine attempting that replacement with 20' seas pushing on that rudder. Also, maybe you should look into a "Sponsored by Loctite" partnership.
I wish we had taken a video of that change. The approach we planned to take is that Jennifer would have the rudder held with a large wrench and I would slip out the old bolt and drop in the new one. But when the bolt came out the rudder swung hard over dragging Jennifer along. In rough water this 1 person, 10 min bolt change became a long and fairly challenging task for two people.
@@MVDirona I always have a sea anchor when making any passage. Deploying the sea anchor will face your bow into the waves and wind and takes the tension and loading off the rudder. This makes it possible to change components without the rudder slamming to and fro. Some people don't like sea anchors but if you need to repair rudders, dagger boards or stabilizers they are worth their weight in gold.
That's a good suggestion and there are a bunch of solutions to this problem. The first is to avoid having to do steering work underway. Clearly that is the top choice from a safety and ease of use perspective and we think that the design changes we have put in place will eliminate the problems we have seen.
But, it's still possible an issue will arise. If we do nee to stabilizer the rudder at sea there are a few choices. One is the emergency hand tiller. In the video, you'll notice a small circular portal above the rudder post and attached above the rudder a large stainless steel weldment. This is the emergency rudder and it can be taken up into the cockpit and dropped down through the opening to manually control the rudder. This work well and is fairly easy but, in rough weather, the deck is awash and some salt water will come in through the opening. Not enough to be dangerous but enough that we will only do it in an emergency. Still, it's nice to have it.
Your suggestion is similar to the emergency hand tiller in that your suggestion is effective but has some overhead. Deploy a sea anchor requires some care and recovery is reported to be quite challenging. So, for big problem, the sea anchor is a great solution but for quick jobs, the sea anchor recovery time would be sufficiently discouraging that we would look for lower overhead solutions like a wrench with a long extension for increased leverage.
I agree that the sea anchor is an excellent safety device that can get boats safely through survival storms and could help with emergency service tasks.
@@MVDirona the emergency hand tiller is an excellent device but using one in a storm is best done with the bow into the wind like a sea anchor or you can get very banged up because of the loading against the rudder. A recovery float on the sea anchor works well for retrieval but deploying the sea anchor if not done correctly can be problematic. You are correct, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. You two having spare parts saved you from a scary situation. The redundancy of the Nordhavn engineering is praiseworthy as is your attention to maintenance. Did you still have the fuel bladders on the stern with fuel when you noticed the wear on the steering components? I love crossing oceans in good ships that are well maintained. As I stated I always have a sea anchor as a precaution and have used them. Having the bow into the wind in a storm makes the ride a lot more comfortable for fixing things like damaged rudders or torn sails and it even helps with seasick crew members.
This was day 8 of the trip and we had just pumped all the deck fuel below into the main tanks so, at this point, we nothing on deck and very close to full fuel tanks below deck.
That's a clean machine!
Thanks!
I would be interested in knowing what steps you took to keep your boat safe in the sea state while you changed out the damaged bolt. Nice job.
That's a great question -- it was challenging. The approach we took was to put a large adjustable wrench on the rudder post with a pipe extension to hold the rudder straight. Jennifer held that assembly and I pulled the bolt. The weight of the boat in the large seas were putting massive forces into the rudder so, even though Jennifer was strong enough to hold the wrench securely, there wasn't enough friction between Jennifer and the floor so the wrench and Jennifer swung back and force. I then used by feet to help hold Jennifer which slowed the swinging greatly but still didn't fully eliminate it. I dropped the bolt back in as the rudder gently swung past straight. Overall, the process only took 10 min but it wasn't easy.
@@MVDirona Thanks. I can only imagine the uncomfortable challenge that was to shut down steering and swap out the part in those conditions. BZ to the two of you! Fair winds!
Thank you for all that you guys do! You’re gonna cost me about a million dollars or more in the near future! I can’t wait! I would love to see footage of the autopilot working the rudder is heavy seas. Also, is Nordhavn incorporating any of your ideas in their builds these days? One more question, I would love to see your idea spare parts list that you carry.
Cheers!
Video taping the rudder in action in heavy seas is a great idea. When they are quartering from the stern, the rudder works hard and the creaking from the thick aluminum plate the rudder mechanical systems are mounted upon is a bit concerning. It's all strong enough and does fine in tough conditions but it does work hard.
Nordhavn is always advancing their designs. If you look at our boat and compare it with one that splashes this year, you will see numerous changes and improvements some of which are fairly substantial. Some of the changes probably do come from our experience. One of the many things that sets Nordhavn apart from some of the competitor offerings is they have nearly 600 boats to learn from and it makes a difference.
You are right that spares requires some judgement. We're proud that we have never been delayed waiting for parts, never have had to redirect a trip to get parts, and haven't had to cancel or change plans. The boat just keeps running. Here's a write up on our spares strategy: mvdirona.com/2018/02/managing-spares/. The article also includes the spares list from that time.
Thank you for the response! You guys are an absolute pleasure to follow!
Thanks very much.
That was fantastic. You taught a good lesson. One question for me I would have cleaned off the threads on the shaft before replacing the bearing. None 5he less a fantastic lesson in boat health.
It's never a mistake to clean more on any mechanical job. But, if you look closely, you'll see the threads are pretty clean. Still, on cleanliness, I agree that more is usually better and, in some jobs, like fuel system maintenance, it's absolutely vital.
You could have turned the bolt upside down with the nuts on top so you could use the torque wrench. It's not going to come undone very easily. Nice job changing it out.
Yes, I did think of putting the bolt upward which would make it much easier to torque up but I don't find it as aesthetically pleasing and it tends to catch more on clothing when reaching over it. But, yes, it would work well.
mr hahn, u should know when using a cresent wrench always use the sliding jaw towards the pressure side as that tightens grip on nut or bolt.
Yes, I have heard that recommendation a few times :-)
Small suggestion, clean the surface beforehand because you’re setting the new stuff in the “dirt” from the worn out end. That will prevent introducing contamination to new bearing surfaces.
Yes, later in the video you will see I went to having a rag underneath it but I should have started there to avoid any risk of contamination.
Good detailed video, thank again.
Thanks!
Hi there. I'm not sure if other more brilliant minds than mine have noticed or not but that joint design seems particularly inefficient. One can notice almost immediately that the force 'vectors' involved occur on the underside or lower part of your steering arm. However, it seems almost obvious to me that that the horizontal forces both in and out, provided by the hydraulic cylinder need to be divided equally into an upper component and the existing lower one. Thus the shape of a much larger casting could be forged resembling a short fork with each leg containing its ownTeflon bearing where the bolt would slide through one fork+bearing, the steering arm, the lower fork+bearing and then the lockout in that order. Of course this part would be more expensive but I can't see how it would not wear for many more hours than the original design. Thanks for allowing my input.
You are right that the simplest attachment does cause considerable side forces. The bearing and assembly strength is sufficient that this design works but aligned forces are definitely less hard on bearings.
That rod end has a grease fitting. I have worked on heavy aircraft for 30 years and I saw the fitting on the rod end you took off. We call those grease fittings, flush fittings. greasing the rod end bearing would help its service life.
I see the mark on the rod end you are looking at but it's not a grease fitting. Flush fittings, at least the ones I've seen, have a ball valve at the top that the grease is injected past. These fittings using dry PTFE layer as lubricate. I suspect that the small hole you saw is where the PTFE is injected during manufacture.
You are right that greased rod ends do exist and they do last better under high loads than PTFE bearings. Thanks for the data point.
I use Nylon Lock nuts with good success on many applications. Not sure how they would go in your circumstance. The lock tight and secondary locking nut looks to work well. Maybe contact Maritimo in Australia, They are known for their offshore Racing steering components.
Yes, I think you are right that Nyloc nuts would work well in this application.
Nordhaven should hire you.
They take pretty good care of us by answering questions when we have them and some of what we learn does make it's way back into the new boat fleet.
Love these Maint videos! Thank you! Did you consider submitting a video for the Nordhavn Film Festival?
Thanks for the positive feedback. No, we didn't consider submitting to the Nordhavn Film Festival. Some of those entries are VERY professionally produced -- better than we can do -- and I suspect that fixing things isn't ever going to be the winning entry :-).
Very informative.
Thanks!
Very well done...
Thanks Jim.
I am aware that adjustable wrenches should only be used when a properly sized wrench is unavailable, but conventional auto engineering safety procedures and firms like Snap On, Mac tools, and other quality tool suppliers all state that there is a correct direction to apply force on any open ended wrench, as We saw several times during Your video torque applied in the wrong direction tends to force the wrench jaws apart and causes slight deformation of the fastener faces and jamming of the wrench which is why you had to free the wrench when it stuck, also even the best open jawed or adjustable wrench can break across the narrow jaw when high torque loads are applied in the wrong direction, @ 250ft/lbs unbraced you can be seriously injured if that happens,
Your not the first to make that point. I’m a licensed professional auto-mechanic so you can imagine I’ve had automotive trade teachers explain this too me many times. I’ve done a 9,000 hour apprenticeship so, yes, I’e had this explained to me by many seasoned and highly skilled professionals. We post to our blog (mvdirona.com/) and put videos (ruclips.net/user/mvdironafeatured) up describing our trip and showing some of the service work we have done in our years rounding the world. Literally dozens of folks like yourself have jumped in to save us from injury and explained how adjust wrenches could or should be used. I’ve had a lot of advice on this topic.
But even with all that good advice, I still don’t religiously follow the “adjustable wrench rules” that are otherwise so popular. As a professional auto-mechanic, I had a 5′ high tool box with thousands of dollars in tools and yet not a single adjustable wrench. When you have 2 cubic meters of tools, you almost always have the right tool and it would be silly to accept the bulk and weaknesses of adjustable wrench. But, on a small boat, it’s not practical to have anywhere close to 2 cubic meters worth of tools and, ironically, there are a great many fasteners much larger than any found in an automotive application. Even more tools are needed on a boat. There just isn’t space for all the right tools so adjustable ends up being the only practical solution. Boats also often have a shortage of space and adjustable wrenches are bigger and more bulky so it’s often the case that the adjustable wrench can’t use used in the “right” way and the only way to move a nut is to sift it first a bit using one side of the wrench and then turn it over and use the other side. That’s why all wrenches have about a 15 degree offset on the end - it allows progress when the clearance is tight but that does require using the wrench in both directions in violation of popular advice.
Having used adjustable wrenches “incorrectly” for literally decades, I’ll observe they are far stronger than conventional wisdom allows and I’ve got a great many jobs done that wouldn’t have been possible following all the rules. And, I’ve never had an adjustable wrench fail. They are far more reliable than conventional wisdom but I do agree they are worth avoiding and, if they must be used, they should be used with care.
Merci beaucoup l'Ami !
I wonder if you packed the rod end with (ptfe?) grease, if you could exponetilally avoid the wear factor? (Not sure if my terminology is right as I am a dummy boat-wise.)
There are rod ends that come equipped with grease fittings and can be greased and I'm told they last better in high load operation. The type of fitting I'm using is dry with a layer of PTFE as a lubricant. These don't require lubricant and none is recommended but it would seem logical that they might last longer if oiled as long as the lubricant didn't capture contaminants that lead to more wear. Your suggestion probably would work but even without doing anything they will last for 1,500 to 2,500 hours of operation. I would prefer longer but it's not bad.
💙 Is there a big difference in boat stability and fuel consumption with full tanks versus, for example, one-sixth of fuel in the tanks? If you sail short distances in an area with calm seas, spend more time in marinas and at anchor, and the possibility of refueling is every 20 miles, is it smarter to fill only 1000 liters rather than all 6500 liters?
More fuel is generally more stable than less fuel since the fuel is stored so low in the boat. The more you carry the lower the boats center of buoyancy and the stiffer it is to rolling. The difference is technically fairly large but, at least on Dirona, the boat is Catagory A Ocean capable on empty tanks or full so the safety the boat isn't compramized at any fuel levels. More data on boat stability here: mvdirona.com/2019/03/deck-fuel-and-vessel-stability/
Another job done off the list,shame that replacement upgrade didn't fit,i,loved the top rudder bearing upgrade that's what should,be been standard, is that bearing off the shelf or a one off custom ,I guess you keep that old worn tie one till you got the new spare replacement could come in to play again as a get home,
Yes, it would have been nice if I could have installed the FK Bearings SJM12T. It's a good strong bearing and would have been perfect for this application. I've got a new part from the original part manufacturer (Sea Star Solutions) installed right now but we'll want to get a couple of spares. I'm investigating three options: 1) get 2 to 3 more from the Sea Star Solutions (it's not as strong as the FK Bearings part but it's as originally delivered), 2) asking a machine shop to drill out a SJM12T from 3/4"-16TPI to 7/8"-14TPI (I suspect that is what Sea Star does to produce their OEM part), and 3) I've got a request in to FK Bearings to do a 3/4" ball with a 7/8"-14TPI thread (they do 100s of bearings and might be willing to add this to their list of available sizes).
Because this is critical component, we will get spares before heading back out cruising next spring.
You are right that the larger hole would leave less metal but that is the way the Sea Star part is made. Their 7/8"-14TPI part has exactly the same external dimensions as the 3/4"-16TPI part. If I drill and tap it to 7/8" the wall thickness will be the same as the Sea Star part but, you are right, it less wall thickness than standard rod ends.
@@MVDirona not wall thickness or external size the thread grooves I was meaning would not be as deep can't replace what's already been drilled with first thread cut or more precisely the thread ridge
Good point. 1/8" might not be enough to be able to fit the full thread. That's only 1/16" on radius. I'll wait and see if the manufacturer is willing to do a 7/8"-14tpi version for me and, if not, I'll just stick with the stock part. Thanks for your thoughts.
Yes the last beer or bottle of wine is a tragedy. 😂
Yes, that did happen once. But, just once :-).
One real important thing, we used extensions to increase torque, not cheater bars. You should get an extension that will allow you to adjust torque to middle 80% of scale (25-225 ft/lbs). 🤗
I'm not following the problem with adding leverage to the end of a torque wrench to reduce the effort required to pull up to the required torque. The torque wrench doesn't know that I'm applying the force to the handle from further away. What's the concern?
MV Dirona MV Dirona the idea is to add distance at hub end allowing you to stay away from top or bottom 10% of wrench capacity. When I worked on NuclearWeapons I had to attend school on torque wrench. Check this out m.ruclips.net/video/hqiISStnb9k/видео.html with a 6” extension you wouldn’t need a cheater & probably stay under 225 ft/lbs... have to do the math which is shown on video. Snapon used to make extensions & their book has formula as well.
ARES 15008 is a set with low profile sockets at Amazon. There are other sets in metric & SAE
We'll this isn't quite nuclear weapons but Ares 15008 would probably give the clearance needed to get a torque wrench on there. I also understand your point on staying away from the top and bottom 10% of a torque wrenches range. That make total sense. Thanks for the tip.
Good channel 👍
Thanks!
Excited to do all of the “messing about” boats. Was thinking with all the various types of locking bolts, do you think a standard bolt with loctite is the best solution? I had to think that equivalent torque on the locking nut is irrelevant beyond snug... Nice that Nordhavn to have the bolt schedule handy, noticed Jennifer’s seasick watch? Anyway hope all is well with you both. We’re working on electronics layout on 6081 and most items at yard.
Standard bolt with Loctite is an answer but lots of others would work equally well. The only one I feel strongly about is that any form of retention that depends upon lining up holes rather than torquing is probably a bad idea. The loads on these components is incredibly high so I would go with grade 8 bolts torqued to spec as a starting requirement and then I would add some form of retention.
The camera Lady is very good. ;-))
You're right. And it's especially challenging to get a good angle on the work when working in tight spaces. Jennifer did a really good job.
How the hell do you change that during rough sea?
Is there a reason to use a nylon locknut at the end?
That's' a super good question. I wish we had taken a video of that change. The approach we planned to take is that Jennifer would have the rudder held with a large wrench and I would slip out the old bolt and drop in the new one. But when the bolt came out the rudder swung hard over dragging Jennifer along with it. She's not heavy enough and can't generate enough floor friction to stop the rudder movement. Both of us together can hold it but then I don't have a hand free to install the botl.
In rough water this normally 1 person, 10 min bolt change became a long and fairly challenging task for two people.
@@MVDirona Just curious, do you have an emergency tiller on board? I see the rudder post has a place for one. Also, I must add, you are living my dream. Fair winds.
Yes, you are correct the top of the rudder post is machined for an emergency tiller. It's just visible over my head in some parts of the video. A cover is opened in the cockpit deck and the emergency tiler is dropped through and attached to the rudder shaft. The only downside of this approach is that, in rough water, the deck is awash and it will bring salt water down below into the Laz. The volume brought below isn't dangerous but it's not great for the gear so I'll only use the emergency tiller in emergencies.
@@MVDirona Thank you. I kinda figured you had worked out all the angles. Hopefully your video will help other cruisers.
Hiya, you said there was 'Locktight' on all three nuts before dis-asembly yet none on the first two fitted. You did not replace the vertical bolt even though it was showing signs of wear in that the coating was worn off. Why?
There was Loctite on the previous two nuts and that's the residue you saw on the bolt. The grade 8 bolt has no wear since, if properly installed, it's tight and never shifts or moves at all. I do have spares of the bolt on board so could change it if appeared to be warranted.
@@MVDirona You can see the finish is missing on the bolt...
It would certainly never be a mistake to replace that bolt. And, given that it's a safety critical part operating under high torque, I think your right and it's good advice to replace it.The bolt, when properly installed will not move so there will be no wear from use.The black coating isn't functional so it coming off due to friction as the nut is installed or removed isn't a problem.
How would you change that turnbuckle while underway? Is there a way to pin the rudder from moving so it doesn’t move and hurt you?
Good call out. No, there is no way to pin the steering centrally and we once did have to change the main bolt that joins the hydraulic ram to the steering arm while underway in a storm and it was quite challenging.
On our first attempt with a large wrench holding the rudder, Jennifer had the strength to hold it but not the friction with the floor so her entire body swung back and forth.
We eventually came up with a system where Jen and I both held the rudder and I kept one arm free to install the bolt. It was clumsy, required us to wait until just the right moment, and then move fast when the time was right but we did get it done.
Good detailed video... thank you. But there was no way when you took it apart that nut was done up to 250ftlbs. Trying to achieve that in a rolling sea with Adjustable wrenches could well result in injury. 250..... is over kill.
Large grade 8 fasteners can safely support a lot of torque and I used it but I think you are right that lower could work as well.
@@MVDirona when I said too much... I meant too much to be safely managed with the tools that you had in a rolling sea. I know and 8.8 can handle the torque. Nothing worse than knocking your own front teeth out in the middle of the Atlantic. 🤣😂
Make sense. The fix we did at sea was done with the parts at hand so you'll see it was only a grade 5 bolt, it wasn't long enough for a proper lock nut, the lock nut was a used Nyloc and the bolt wasn't long enough for the nylon section to engage. But it was good enough to get us to Kinsale Ireland. Later I made the changes of adding the longer bolt, moving to grade 8 fine thread, and going to the higher torque.
As you guessed, it was a bit a chore to change at sea. Our first attempt had the rudder swinging with Jennifer holding it but with not enough friction on the floor to stop the movement. Both of us together could hold the rudder but then I didn't have a hand free to replace the bolt. It require some care and patience to get that job done.
@@MVDirona you certainly need a lot of ingenuity to tackle your journey. It is inspirational stuff. Thanks once again
Thanks for the feedback. The good news is that 99% of the time, everything works great and there are no problems.
Thats a great service quality from Nordhaven. Was it incorrectly torqued or was it that the bolt had been torqued repeatedly several times and the so material had stretched? Not like you to miss the spec on the thread being different!? You don't need to torque the bottom nut to 250 ftlbs fyi.
The problem was caused by using a nut and bolt that was torqued, presumably correctly, at the factory and then drilled for cotter pin. Later when the rod end was replaced slight manufacturing tolerance differences or slight bolt stretch led to the assembly not being sufficiently tight. The solution of using a drilled nut isn't a great solution for this application and, if it is used, I think you are right and new parts and a new hole need to be drilled each time.
Fantastic vid ya'll, is Nordhavn aware of this problem so they can make the changes for future yachts? Thank you.
Nordhavn is constantly evolving and improving. Looking at the rudder upper bearing, the first design was a ball bearing approach that is very low friction under load and very long life if properly greased. There were some where salt water had dripped on them and they rusted up so Nordhavn went to a Delrin design. It has many nice characteristics but it's a wear item and needs to be replaced periodically. The approach I've taken of going with an Oilite has some characteristics I really like. I'm not sure if Nordhavn will elect to adopt this approach but they do take owner input and are constantly improving the fleet. A new N52 purchased today is a better boat than we bought in 2010.
All good, but the tools you are using have a specific way they are used. The adjustable wrench grips the nut or bolt tighter if used properly. The second thing is you should be torquing the nut not the bolt. Torque the bolt can give you a false reading. Just being helpful.
The adjustable wrench use has attracted great attention. There is one direction where the wrench is strongest but I don't always follow the rules but I do still know them.
Great video! Did you manage to find the steering rod end (sprintcar style) with the correct thread size? PS: "Nordhavn inventoried the entire boat part list befor annoucing that one of the exhaust...." reminded me that scene from apollo 13 when they had to solve de CO2 problem and the folks from NASA helped to "fit a square peg into a round hole"
I didn't end up getting a alternative part I like. The sizing on this particular rod end is fairly unusual with a 7/8" female thread but a 3/4" hole in the spherical bearing. I'm actually fine with how long the OEM version lasts. They usually do 1,000 to 2,000 hours. My complaint is they are roughly 3x more expensive than they should be. I ended finding a source that was 1/2 as expensive so I bought three and consider it a solved problem even though there are certainly alternative parts out there that would last longer and some might even be cheaper. The solution I found was basically good enough.
Are you sure that putting that much torque on that bolt won't distort the rod end and damage it?
Yes, it's fine and has been running this way for 3 years and more than 1,000 hours but running with less torque would be fine as well. It needs to absolutely never shift or slip and 100 to 150 ft lbs is adequate. I chose the torque setting as the rating for that particular Grade 8 fastener type but there is nothing magic about it and I'm sure that less would be fine.
Why did you spend the winter in cold, grey N. Europe rather than some place warm like the Mediterranean?
Two reason: The natural beauty of Norway really is out of this world special and, in the winter, some sites are even better. The second reason is just about everyone we know has spent time in the Med but few have done a winter in Norway. We wanted the experience. For some reason, the massive number of boats in the Med make it a less exciting destination for us.
It's a pretty unusual experience to be able to stand on the ice in front of the boat. But, to your point, the cold of a winter in Norway is more work and does require more clothing than the Med.
could you take the worn part and return it to the manufacturer to renew the bearing center????
No, they aren't servicable but they aren't very expensive given they are a heavy duty precision part. You can buy them from the steering manufacturer for under $150 and, for standard sized parts, the best are available for about 1/2 that.
Why does that part not have two grease nibbles , same as vehicle steering. I have them on my P. U.
The fittings used in many aircraft applications and all the race car applications I've seen use a Teflon self-lubrication layer and don't include grease fittings. There are similarly sized parts that do come with grease fittings.
Because the part used in this application is an uncommon size with 7/8" threads in the shaft end but only 3/4" opening in the ball end, I don't have many choices available so I ended up sticking with the manufacturer supplied part even though it's roughly 2x the cost of directly sourced part.
Never use cheater bar with torque wrench. If you do that you change the torque value (Lenght x Force= Torque) . You have probably raised the value over 325 + ft.lbs , the max torque of this torque wrench you are right is 250 ft.lbs. Exceeding max torque capacity of the torque wrench can dammage and decalibrate. Understand in this situation where you have limited access and tools and application has to be made, we do our best. Also never click 2-3 times, each time you raised again the torque value. Unloading the tension after using it your right ! If you have to use a cheater bar in some situation here is the the formula T x L / L +A = TW. Let’s say T = 250 ft.lbs X L = lenght of your torque ( from middle of square dr to middle of handle )
Divided by L + A , A means lenght of the cheater bar ( from middle torque wrench handle to middle of handle on the cheater bar). Let’s say your L is 20 in. and you cheater bar is 12 in. T = 250 ft.lbs. 250 x 20 = 5000 / 20 + 12 = 32 TW = 156 ft.lbs to set on your torque wrench. Hope this help. Thx again for your video, I also learned a lot from your side and will pay more attention of this part in the futur on my sailboat.
Thanks for the comment. The formula you reference is for when adding an extension onto the working end of torque wrench and it's important. When adding length and leverage to the pulling end of the torque wrench, as long as the extension is above the pivot point where torque is measured, it does not effect the torque reading.
That's a good point on not torquing at or above the max limits of the torque wrench being used. I'll keep that in mind.
Others have raised the same point about clicking 2 or 3 times.I am a licensed automechanic in Canada and operated professionally for many years and, in my training, that's what I was taught to do. I've watched a lot of auto and race mechanics and it's a pretty standard approach with them as well. When torquing cylinder heads, many professional do a second pass through the torque sequence to ensure that all are at proper torque. I've rebuilt an awful lot of engines over the years and all the heads were torqued that way.
I worked for quite a few years for a General Motors dealer and, since most service is being done this way, if it was causing problems or increasing warranty costs, I would have thought GM would have released a service bulletin recommending against it.
if you're hellbent on keeping those joints spray em with Fluid Film, goes on like liquid and dries into grease
Thanks for the suggestion.
Aircraft steel won't wear as bad. Also using a crescent wrench backwards can break it. If it doesn't break it will strip the adjusting screw. Since the bolt looks bigger you can have the shaft machined to fit the new stronger bearing. As a mechanic you should never exceed the recommended torque.
I don't exceed the recommended torque. It's a 3/4" grade 8 bolt. The rod ends wear well -- they usually can due 1,500 to 2,000 hours. The failure is wear at the bolt attaching the rod end to the rudder. It shouldn't wear at all but was insufficiently torqued. The manufacturer had drilled the nut and bolt to be cotter pinned and, over time or possibly due to slight differences in tolerance of different rod ends this "correct" location became insufficiently tight allowing movement which leads to rapid wear. My mistake for not noticing this.
The rod ends last well and the bolts last indefinitely as long as properly torqued. If they are loose, very rapid wear can set in.
The "crescent wrench backward" point is a popular one to point out. I have a multi-decade experiment underway to test the theory that adjustable wrenches fail and/or strip nuts if not used in the right direction. So far, I've not been able to reproduce that failure mode.
That's not how you double nut something in that last step, but otherwise good to watch.
Also, no it doesn't need to be the same torque to be effective.
The torque selected was the recommendation of fastener so it's not the required torque but the torque they can support. I agree that effective double nutting doesn't depend upon using the maximum torque specification of the fastener manufacturer but there isn't anything wrong with using it.
If you have a spanner with room to use the ring, why then use the fork?
I use whichever tool is most convenient and quick. With good wrenches at normal loadings, there is no problem with wrench flexing even when not using the box end. If the loads are high, I'll use the best solution I have for that fastener but it's normally not the primary focus for me.
what do you do for a living or what did you do for a living????
I work on high scale data center infrastructure design including networking systems, power distribution, cooling systems, and low level software. Here's a video that talks about many of the things I was working on: ruclips.net/video/AyOAjFNPAbA/видео.html.
interesting video
Thanks for feedback.
250 is way overkill for that. That nut and bolt may take the 250lbs, but that eye swivel fitting wont take the compression. You are squashing and distorting the swivel when you compress it to much. Then it will not be the same shape as the Teflon inside of it. You will cause pre mature wear from over tightening.
I think you are right that it's more torque than absolutely needed. The grade 8 bolt is fine at that torque and the rod end lasts the same 1,500 to 2,000 hours with the high torque as it did when previously not done up sufficiently tight so it appears the torque doesn't impact the rod end life. But, I agree, 250 ft lbs is more than needed.
It's a design where insufficient torque is very dangerous and leads to very fast wear so I want it on the high side but, you are right, 250 ft lbs is more than absolutely needed.
I love your channel, and I actually attended your talk at Re:Invent 2016 in Vegas. Werner was partying like a wild man at that DJ party, at the conclusion of the conference. Good times.
I’m working on restoring an old steel sailboat from 1953, and I would love to learn more about your equipment/systems monitoring approach. I’m able to engineer any SW/HW configuration you recommend. Your gauge visualization makes so much sense. As a Techie, I am drawn to that...
Is there a way I can get in contact with you over email to discuss? Thanks, mike
That's great you were there at the re:Invent talk in 2016. On the boating stuff, you'll find most details up on mvdirona.com and, if there is something that is not covered, you can post questions there and I usually get to them pretty quickly.
Cheers! Thanks for the great resource. Happy cruising!
Use what we call a crow foot so you can torque the nut.
Yes, that would work and when I was a licensed mechanic I had one. Sadly I know longer have a couple cubic meters of tools and the crows foot didn't make the trip on this small boat :-).
Why wouldn’t you winter in the Med?
It might be warmer.
It would definitely be warmer. But we like Amsterdam and wanted to stay in the Baltic region until fairly late in the year. It's a bit more than 1,500 nautical miles to get to the Med from the Baltic region which is just under a week running 24x7 but the shorter good weather gaps available in the winter wouldn't support that. So, we decided to stay in Amsterdam which is a very cool city and a fun place to call home for a while.
We may find we don't really enjoy the crowds in the med and actually prefer it further north. We'll head south to the Med for the first time next year and find out.
Would a lock nut between the lower nuts make sense?
I feel pretty good about the security of the current system but there have been suggestions to add lock washers, lock nuts, or to lock wire. I've never put a lock washer between two nuts but it seems like it seems like a reasonable approach.
@@MVDirona Thanks for the response. I don't recall your education. Do you have one or more engineering degrees?
Not pure engineering and none of my degrees carry much weight around boats or boat service but I do have a Masters of Math from the University of Waterloo and Bachelors of Science from University of Victoria. Both focused on Computer Science: mvdirona.com/jrh/Resume/Resume.pdf.
Only 1200 hrs on a critical steering bearing sounds NOT good to me….What did Nordhaven say about this?
The part will function without safety issue for thousands of hours and I believe it to be an adequate part for intended purposes. The reason it is best changed in the 1,000 to 2,000 hour range is wear introduces excess free play in the steering. This is not a safety issue but can cause the autopilot to hunt.
I agree that greater longevity would be preferable but having searched the market quite extensively, there doesn't appear to be one. The sizing of this part is fairly uncommon and, as a consequence, replacement parts are available in less variety and I was unable to find a superior performing component. My eventual conclusion was I would just have spares on board and change them when needed. They don't fail rapidly so it's not much of a hassle to deal with the part.
The component is supplied to Nordhavn as part of the Teleflex SeaStar steering system.
Tight is tight, too tight is BROKE
Yes, you are right. I used the bolt manufacturers spec on torque so there is no risk of fastener failure.
I dream of owning a older Nordhavn that a guy on a nursing salary can afford and cruising the coastline out of Seattle. I have a few mechanical skills but am concerned with being overwhelmed by an older boats maintenance. Obviously if a boat is well taken care of age is probably not a concern but what would your limits be. Example: 20 yr old boat >10k hours etc... thanks
The Seattle area is an incredible boating region. So many destinations nearby.
The best way to be happy with a boat is to only buy when you are ready to use it nearly every weekend and sticking within your budget so the problems that will come with time aren't an excessive burden. On the technical side, it's not that hard if you are patient, willing to read, and logical. Just about any problem can be solved and I've always joked that a motivated, patient and logical person can do better than even some professionals.
Surprised you were able to put a 250lb torque on that nut in the tight space.
When there is a will there is a way :-). There is no way I could have done it without the wrench extensions (cheater bars).
250 ft/lb too much for that bolt, using a cheater bar isn’t a good idea for torquing anything. Also the torque should be applied to the nut. Good idea with the dbl nuts good piece of mind. Love your boat thank you cruise on
I agree that 250 ft/lb is more than is needed for the fastener but it's is compliant with the manufacturer specs for that Grade 8 3/4" nut and bolt assembly. I agree that accurate torques can only be achieved on the nut. I've heard from many that using an extension on a torque wrench is a problem but given the torque wrench measures torque between handle and the drive end, I don't see a mechanism to introduce inaccuracy. It can't tell the difference between a very strong hand on the handle or a weak hand with more leverage. The torque measurement is made at the end furthest from the handle. Using extensions is common practice in heavy equipment maintenance.
Thanks for the advice and the comments on the video.
💙💙💙💙💙💙
Bolt doesn't need to be done up so tight, I wouldn't be surprised if you're compressing the bearing.
It's not possible ,the inner part is bigger in height designed to not move top and bottom face locks on the rudder control arm and the washer of the tightening nuts an bolts rated for 8 tonne that inner bearing sleave could take 10 tonne of compression force easily the outer tie rod shoulder hoop is smaller in height that's what moves and it's free to move and swivel has no tighten pressure on it from the bolt and nut
The bearing is definitely not being compressed but you are right that lower torque would work equally well. The judgement call is what is "enough"? The failure we saw shows what isn't enough. I chose to use the bolt manufacture spec.
I agree with that analysis. Thanks for thinking it through.
Per the lower lip quiver I’d concur 250lbs 😳.
Apparently I'm not getting stronger as I get older :-)
The device you're changing is called a "heim joint" or a "Heim Rod end". For Safety's sake, I'd suggest aircraft grade instead of automotive grade. There are lots of sources for these parts, but I'd look at Wick's: aircraftproducts.wicksaircraft.com/viewitems/hiem-joints-rod-ends-for-motorsports/female-rod-end-bearings
The part I was attempting to install are stainless steel and support a static radial load of 29,310 lbs so they actually are pretty strong. The installed part has a 3/4" hole with a female 7/8"-14 TPI RH which is not available from the source you referenced (Wicks Aircraft) but thanks for passing on the link.
If it were me and I had the part, I would also replace the Bolt that the bearing goes on.... Perhaps that comes from my aviation background.... Or perhaps a dye test or magniflux test.... or however you spell it. Maybe I'm just into overkill Lol's
We do have several of the bolts in our spares storage and they are sufficiently inexpensive that changing them is cheaper than magnifluxing them. We're well within the torque specs of the fastener so chose not to replace it but, given the low cost, your idea of replacing it would be inexpensive insurance.
Good Job, I will avoid any criticism and just recommend no more soy in your Lattes... ;-) Cheers
Thanks, I think.
Learn to use an adjustable spanner the correct way, you only got it right when you tightened the rose joint.
It amazing how important this is to some folks. I've never found it an issue. Either adjustable wrenches have improved or I've just been lucky but it's never been an issue.
Soo... Having 2 fairly large adjustable wrenches takes up less room and adds less weight to the boat than just having 2 of the proper sized wrenches..? As a mechanic. I can assure you that adjustable wrenches are a good bit heavier than a regular wrench of the same size... Especially larger ones like those. Their overall dimensions are also larger than a regular wrench of equal size... Also. As a side note. You can put more force on the torque wrench if you push than you can if you pull on it... That woulda been SO much easier had you pushed from the side she's recording on rather than pulling from the side you were on.
I'm also a professional mechanic and worked for 3 years at a Chevrolet dealer and 3 years at an exotic car repair shop. I had a 5' tall snap on toolbox that weighted 100s of pounds. Even with vast amounts of toolbox space and no obvious limit on the weight I could carry I had no adjustable wrenches. I don't have space for that vast number of tools and, making it slightly worse, the boat has a large selection of fasteners larger than those found on Chevrolets, Ferraris, Lamborghinis, or Alfa Romeos. Of course you are right that a correctly sized wrench is lighter and smaller than an adjustable wrench. But, ALL the needed correctly sized wrenches are vastly larger than the adjustable wrench.
Space is the limitation. Economics is a factor as well. A full set of good quality tools like the one I used to have would run around $10,000. Technically I can afford it but I'm not sure I would buy them all given that I might only do some of these jobs once or perhaps never.
I don't have the space for all possible tools, I don't want to afford all possible tools, and it's often the case that I wish I had more tools on the boat. Practically, there will be some jobs on the boat where an adjustable wrench ends up being a pretty reasonable solution.
You also mentioned I could get more force on a torque wrench if I push it rather than pull it. I never thought of it but if I find myself unable to get enough torque on a fastener, I'll give that a try. Thanks.
@@MVDirona I do understand that. I wasn't trying to ridicule your choice of tools or anything. Looking back. My comment came off a bit snobby now that I've re read it. Sorry for that. I just kinda figured that since that particular bolt is one that's removed fairly often. It might have been both lighter and took up less storage space to just buy another wrench that's the size you need as apposed to carrying those huge adjustables everywhere with you. But I guess not. I'm sure they're handy for more than just that one job. I'm more in the diesel field myself tho. Specifically construction equipment. Things like Kawasaki loaders and Gradalls and Hitachi Excavators and so on. So I get that the tools and the nuts and bolts they're used to remove can get pretty big. One of my wrenches on my work truck cost almost as much as a small cheap car. Lol. So I get that it's expensive as well. If I were to sell all my tools for the same price I paid for em. I could probably retire soon. I also have a camper so I get that space is at a premium. I have ALL my tools stored in my work truck. It's sort of a specialized truck in that it has pressurized cabinets to keep dust out when I'm traveling on job sites. There's a place for all my tools and equipment. But I do still have to consider storage space as well as weight so I kinda get how it can be a pain in the ass. Especially in a commercial vehicle because DOT is so strict and you have to be under a certain weight limit. I'm pretty sure my truck is like RIGHT under the limit. Lol.
@@MVDirona I do have to say tho. You are probably the CLEANEST and most meticulous mechanic I have EVER seen. Lol. I'm no slob by any means but I'm also nowhere near as meticulous as you. Lol.
Appreciate your response and I gotta admit that the boat is a lot bigger than your pickup so I probably do have space. But it's a priorities thing. The boat is a lot smaller than your house and we live here. Everything of ours has to fit on the boat so space is a bit constrained.
I like the idea of using positive pressure to limit the ingress of dirt into your mobile tool boxes. Cool idea.
Thanks for the comment on me working without much mess. I especially appreciate hearing that from a professional mechanic. I'm a computer guy these days so only do the mechanical work I need to keep the boat running well.
I appreciate the dialog.
That bolt
Do you have the ability to steer manually in the event of a failure? I have similar joints on my tractor but they have a grease fittings.
Yes, we can steer the boat manually but it's a last ditch approach where the large stainless weldment above my head is taken down, brought up to the cockpit and a small circular opening is open in the cockpit floor allowing the weldment to be slid down and attached to the steering shaft. It'll work but it has the downside of allowing water from on deck down below. In rough water, the deck is always awash so this wouldn't be ideal but it would work and get the job done.
Your idea of using a rod end with a spherical joint equipped with a grease fitting is a good one. In my time around race cars, we've only used the Teflon bearings but I could imagine that we could get longer life out of a metal bearing part. Unfortunately this is an odd size where just about every 3/4" rod end has a 3/4" hole and 3/4-16TPI threads but this unit is 3/4" hole with 7/8-14TPI. I suspect they had a rod end manufacturer do a custom manufacturing run where 3/4" rod ends are bored out bigger since the external dimensions are identical.
You seem to be a smart feller and all but you put too much faith in loctite... I would recommend a lock nut and or a lock washer along with loctite.. Being as isolated as you are at times, redundancy is a must
It is true that, over the years, I've come to depend upon Loctite products. I generally agree that multiple levels of protection is a good strategy.