Hey everyone - I'm sure you've noticed that there's been a large gap between my videos recently. The reason is that I have a lot of other work I need to take on to pay the bills. Although my channel is still growing nicely, it's is not yet at the level where I can dedicate the sort of time I think it deserves. So, if you have a bit of spare coin, I'd ask that you please consider become a Patron to support my channel. If not, don't worry. Thanks a lot for watching, regardless! www.patreon.com/Tantacrul
Your videos are informative and funny. I value this, and I'm already supporting a few creators on Patreon so I've added you. I noticed that you've selected "per video" instead of "per month", which means that unless you release something you won't get any money. Is that what you were wanting, or did you want a more reliable income regardless of release schedule?
As an avid sibelius user (get it? haha...) I watch this video ever 3 months as a sort of cleansing ritual to remind myself that I am not alone in my suffering.
I don’t use Sibelius (my bf is a Composer which is how I even heard of this) but I watch this every now and then because it’s such a good video in and of itself lol
Back in college, one of my friends pirated sibelius 7. We were very excited to begin electronic arrangement, as it promised to make the process much simpler. after attempting to use it for several days, we came to the conclusion that the version that we had pirated was an early developer's beta launch. It was practically unusable. only after watching this video, do I realize that we had the full version of the program. It's just that bad.
It's easy more easier than that! You know that while you are writing the score, you can change the note length by the numpad. If you enter the tempo text, you hit ctr and the corresponding numpad key
The "right-click" to obtain the menu (which does not actually "drop down" from anywhere) is the thing I hate the most in Sibelius. I have to look it up every time.
ill never understand why everyone is trying to move forward to programs like Sibelius when it doesn't improve on (and is usually worse) than the already existing pencil & paper
@@growskull i think there is a general appeal in electronic composition due to the programme providing things such as playback, but generally this is promonent for beginners
The first time I saw this video, I was really ill and out of it at the time, so when the video starts going a bit crazy I thought i'd finally snapped. It was hilarious, but like, I had no idea how much of it was real. Really added to the experience honestly.
I’m not a musician, or a software designer. I’ve never heard of this application, nor have I ever watched a video by this guy. I have absolutely no idea why this video was recommended to me, but do I regret watching it 5 times? Absolutely not! The arc of gradual madness displayed in this cinematic masterpiece is absolutely amazing. The clashing forces of Tantacruel, our protagonist, and Sibelius, our mad god villain. The story told between these two opposing parties is beautifully absorbing and incredibly Lovecraftian. Thank you, algorithm. And thank you, Tantacruel.
The product manager and the sales manager must have hanged themselves. Then again, they are responsible for this mess. Except for the even worse AVID bosses who decided to guillotine the product overnight instead of overhauling it. Great management, AVID ! Now you have a much better competitor called Dorico, made by the very own employees you sacked ! Not that you care since you killed your own product in the first place. It's notable that ProTools is following a similar shitty path. While it's still widely used in studios only for habit reasons, it's now a subpar software if compared to the competition.
Dude, believe, me: I work with this baby program EVERY SINGLE DAY (beacuse I hate Finale) and I can tell you: There's no inch of this video that I do not LOVE! Specially the Lynchean style of the last minutes. Well, Lynch/Cronemberg... LOVED IT BIG TIME!
i dont do music notation, have never heard of this app, and have no idea why youtube suggested this to me, but i had a lot of fun watching your descent into madness stay strong, my dude
I'm not a musician, and don't use notation software. But I work at a musician's store and I do use game development software, so I just chalked this up to "google listened to me through my phone again and gave me a recommendation based loosely on my hobbies".
Samuel and I use Sibelius every single day for notating the piano arrangements we release on our channel. I've used it for 13 years myself (started with Sibelius 2). But even having used the ribbon since its release in 2011, to this day it's remained unintuitive and functions I'm looking for tend not to be where I expect. The old menu system was easier to use. Ribbons in Sibelius have never really made sense to me. -Andrew
Unreal Russian Shit soundfonts, no suspended cymbals, text support is abysmal, the stems can fly they can fly really high, midi support crashes Otherwise, it's a very nice piece of software
The fact that this video was automatically suggested to me after spending a whole week looking up forums answers and video tutorials for this god forsaken software pleases me.
You know it's a great and intuitive piece of software when you have to google absolutely every little thing you want to do. Even better when the answer usually is "no, you can't do that."
Ive learned too many of Sibelius's kinks to ever think of switching to something else. Sibelius has beaten me into submission. I often wonder what other music notation software is like... but then I remind myself the horrors of learning the kinks of a new music notation program and reassure myself that even though Sibelius still beats the living shit out of me on a daily basis... I know I have it coming to me. I deserve it. Somewhere deep down Sibelius still loves me. So I stick around.
Oh my goodness you've helped me understand why people keep using horrible systems (...and stay addicted to bad things and get stuck in all kinds of negative patterns...). It's not your fault! If all your practical experiences are of using something that is terrible and depressing, and you have no experiential knowledge of alternatives that let you complete your goals more easily+positively, what right does your brain have to assume that the different approaches that you know are out there might actually be easier, more fun, less work, not a drudge to switch over to, and worth the effort?
Sibelius doesn't love you. You are in an abusive relationship! You have learned it's kinks in order to better serve it, but it still doesn't appreciate it. You can still leave this relationship. Find help in a local shelter near you, or in Musescore or whatever.
@Max Designs Not natively within Sibelius itself, but my version of Sibelius was bundled with a program called Audioscore that can transcribe audio. I never tried it or downloaded it though
This video. This cursed video. It has been popping up in my recommended for MONTHS. I never paid any attention to it. I always glanced over it, never making a conscious record of it. But I knew of its existence. I wasn't expecting it to return to my recommended feed, but was never surprised when it did. No, "not surprised" isn't the right term here. It felt /right/ in my recommended feed. Never being clicked on, but never being paid enough attention to to click away. Until today. I don't know what happened, but today I did something I've never done before: I read this video's title. I was surprised I had never read the title, since the thumbnail had grown so familiar, yet here I was actively reading those words for the first time. It intrigued me, and I clicked, knowing that I could be doing better, more productive things with my 21 minutes and 34 seconds. The video itself was surprisingly good. The subject matter clicked with me. Somehow, this video which kept returning, yet never being too firm when asking my attention, gave me a lot more entertainment than imagined. And now I'm here. I've watched it. It won't return. Other videos might. But the familiarity is gone. And, in a sense, some safety is too. Sibelius crashed.
@@Otra_Chica_de_Internet "House of Leaves" is one good but very confusing book, up to the point when it's still up to debate whether it's about terror or actually about love (as the author said himself)
I honestly do not believe I have ever laughed so hard at anything before in my life, and I hardly know anything about music. This is by far the best review of anything I have ever seen. "The chees melts amber yellow, Sibelius memts red. The music is bleeding. I bring down the drop-down. It is filled with GORE.
It's somehow worse than Corsair's original CUE interface for adjusting the RGB lights. That monstrosity required you to basically memorize the 120-page manual in order to get anything done, but at least you could get instantaneous feedback on what you were doing.
Don't you hate when you finish the video and the comments are like, "Wow, the thing that you had turned off by default and only exists 10% of the time sure adds to the great experience!"
When you realise that every button or tickbox or input box could lead to the crash of Sibelius, thus every clickable action of Sibelius equals „quit Sibelius“.
the crushing majority of those designers is as dangerous as a toddler with grenade not because ui/ux designers have something special but simply because the crushing majority of _any_ category of software creators is as dangerous as a toddler with a grenade
Me and my friend understand almost zero when it comes to music theory - let alone writing it - but we're just psyching out shouting "Sibelius crashed!" now.
What do you mean it was funny the. Whole way through for me though that may be the valium and nitrous oxide talking (commenting from the dentist's office)
Can we all just appreciate the creativity put into the subtitles of this video? I left the subtitles on, not because I need them, but just how fun they are to read.
Pentameron Yes, but I feel like the joke was that Morton Feldman worked with chance in his music (using things like a deck of cards to determine notes), not unlike how some of Sibelius’s features were made.
Morton Feldman experimented with chance and uncertainty in some of his music notation. In his sheet music, certain things (such as note duration, or exact pitches) are left up to chance. Thus: "It's almost like the position of things was decided by the roll of the dice. This app should be called Morton Feldman!"
Not gonna lie, I might accidentally break something had a thing like that happened to me. Glad this is just video editing. Uhhh where's the send butt-OHGODHELP%#_ [Sibelius crashed]
@@thecianinator I just want you to know that I love you for making me discover the Star Trek Acid Party, I'm pretty into weird deep youtube videos and this might be one of the greatest of all. I watched all of it, it was quite an experience. Thank you, you made my day
I remember having to use this in school for our composition module and people actually getting worse marks on their exams because we only had 4 weeks and Sybelius made it next to impossible for anyone to write any of their coursework because we were obviously never taught how to use it in depth. If I ever saw that software walking on the street I would take it out with my bare hands in broad fucking daylight, I would do time, and I would smile forever
LOL ... yup. I went to Humber college's bachelor of music program, and Sibelius was required in our 2nd year theory class. Yikes, bad times. I actually use guitar pro for all of my notation needs now, because it is 500 times more intuitive.
I've never even considered writing music, and yet looking at Sibelius side-by-side with any of its competitors I've seen, it looks like something made by an army of sixth graders.
"Parameter dump" is a really good term for this. Some of these dialogue boxes feel only one step removed from just a list of parameters and their values. There's a lot of features, but very little thought about the actual workflow.
@@Huntracony nah, they just replaced inconsistent text menus with different inconsistent text menus and occasionally - with 5 pixel wide pictograms. I’d stick to the classic for now, at least it’s free.
@@AntonNidhoggr I've tried and given up on classic multiple times in the past. I've not had any major problems with the Steam version. I've not had to look up how to do anything so far. I wouldn't call it _good_ UI, but it's usable.
@@danilafoxpro2603 When the OS shuts down yes, but in my experience you shouldn't assume that all memory got deallocated when you shut something off. Managed to take up all ram in my computer while ironically making a memory game due to me not propperly deallocating objects when the program was finished and me testing it many times in a row.
Huh. Which OS/language did you use, if you don't mind me asking? I tested it with C++ (although the code might compile in C too) on Windows 7 64bit (compiling for 32bit though), with the following code: collabedit.com/ese32. The program tries to allocate around 200MB of memory and then crashes (, the finest crash I'm capable of, memory access violation). I profiled it via 'Task Manager' performance tab, and all memory allocated to the program seems to be deallocated. (I also tested launching a bunch of instances of the program at the same time, so the total memory taken goes to 2GB, and have done it multiple times, with all programs crashing each time. Memory seems to always return to pre-program launch levels.)
I'm using C++, so I can use pointer wrappers; Pointers that automatically deallocate when going out of scope, pointers that count references and auto-deallocate when nothing references them, you name it. But I still use raw pointers sometimes, and sometimes I forget to free them. I guess I'm the adventurous type.
i was fine until "the black beams can stretch, they can stretch really high!" and "let's take a hairpin and stretch it to the next page- oh no, hairpin's busted."
I love the tangents you go on. Like, who puts a little Elizabeth Olsen tangent in the middle of a video about Sibelius with no context? Tantacrul does that.
There’s a new, absurdist, multimedia, artistic movement going on through RUclips. This shit inspires me... might just have to jump in and join you cool kids. P.s. Eric if you haven’t seen it check out “The Interface” - a web series by RUclips channel “Umami”
@SpiderShlongGaming yeah I hadn't really considered the multimedia nature of Umami, but yeah it's there. Also I see it in the indie games like Stardew Valley that are coming out where there's one person creating the game and music all in one.
The escalation... *at the end*? The beautiful part about this is that the escalation is there from the beginning, but increases in a very subtle way :) The problem is Sibelius wasn't designed, it was engineered. I was a beta tester of the Sibelius of chess software: Aquarium, I remember seeing it fall to become gradually unusable from version to version in a similar fashion, with a similar poor usage of the Ribbon (used to be called "Fluid UI") and I just gave up and quit after the main feature, the only reason to use Aquarium, "IDeA" (Interactive DEep Analysis) became unusable from one version to the next. I had never seen such an abomination of poor UI design until today, because despite all its problems, Aquarium is peanuts to Sibelius in that respect. Whoa!
I certainly thought the same thing when I originally made my choice. Need to go back to Finale and see if the years have been kind. Thanks, btw. Enjoy your stuff a lot.
@@Tantacrul Granted, I don't know of anybody who disagrees with the general premise of this video - the implementation of the ribbon in Sibelius 7 was godawful. I use hotkeys anyway, so I'm never up there in the ribbon, but when I do, it's just miserable. Still beats Finale. God does that program suck.
Having used Finale since about 1989, I'm curious to know what you two don't like about it. Getting through Finale's initial learning curve and unhelpful user manuals was brutal in 1989. But since then I have had no issues with it, and I only remember hearing horror stories from those using Sibelius. Finale just released version 26 on October 10, 2018, and I'd be interested in more useful comparison besides "Finale isn't very good" or "beats finale."
@@nextlifeonearth Hey, I don’t mind. My colleagues who use Maya have the same thing. However, Maya is highly customisable. One has to find a command once and then add it to a shelf or make a shortcut.
I think they should test the software with people who have never used it before and study how they expect the program to work. By examining how people with no experience try to get it to work and comparing how it actually works they can make adjustments to make it more intuitive to the layperson.
"Some users found it difficult to navigate at first, which is an expected outcome when faced with any specialized application with a correspondingly steep learning curve. AVID has received a great deal of encouragement from our users over the years regarding the ease of use and navigability of Sibelius. As always, we welcome user feedback and will take any suggestions into consideration for future releases. So %!$# off with your negativity." -- AVID PR, probably.
One thing I disagree with: the search function taking you to where the button can be found is a good thing in my opinion - first time users will find themselves navigating the ribbon more easily going forward when they can remember where the thing was last time. But of course this only matters when the ribbon is actually functional.
@@chroma.z Not a UI designer, but it seems like that would create a flickering mess where different ribbons are entered when hovering over different options. It would also overwrite whatever ribbon you were in, which can be a bit frustrating when you're "in the zone". The most common solution to this problem is to type out the search path (e.g. Home -> Select to find Filters), which is used in Photoshop.
It just feels very passive aggressively, as strange as that sounds. I would prefer something that would tell me what buttons to press in order, and then a "show me" button to click if I DO want it to drag me to what to click on. Unless I go through the process myself I won't remember
I dont compose music. But I think I would much rather just sketch short music out in a program like photoshop. With the different details being different layers you can just move around
After watching the musescore 4 video, I really appreciate the wonderful playback and workflow. I decided to revisit the notation series as everyone of them is a dramatic masterpiece. Can't wait for the finale...finale.
My Sibelius crashed while I was finishing writing a fugue for an 18 hour exam, I was actually in pain. Knowing now that I'm not alone in this make me feel a little better. This video made my day, thanks man!
@@KnakuanaRka luckily I'm quite obsessed with saving every 5 minutes, so I didn't lose too much work, but I almost had a heart attack. At the end it went well ;)
@@camimilks Oh, I'm glad you didn't lose all your work, that would've been horrible. Wel, I'll use your story as motivation to save more often because I do not save often enough, and if I was in your shoes, I would've been screwed. Well, have a nice day! Your exams, and depending on your location, school year are probably done, so enjoy the summer.
It was that way with the ancient version of Finale I used, too. Things like stretching beams was easy, you'd learn to do that on your own without even trying. probably without even wanting to. But something common like an anacrusis you would have no chance to figure out on your own; I think you had to click on one button to change another button and then right-click for a context menu on that again.
A fantastic and somehow genuinely disturbing thing about this video is how the music becomes increasingly more unhinged, and matches the narrative of the commentary perfectly.
Nah it is, you just gotta go find it in the Expression box, along with fortepiano, piano, mezzoforte and so on, as the only thing in there is piano, which is keyboard, which you have right in front of you, like what I'm typing on. Saxes on the other hand, is way harder, because they are in the notation bit, where you kind find the clefs Alto Saxophone, Tenor Saxophone, but not Sub Baritone Sax, then you gotta to lines, where the octave line is, as you can't use clefs to show it during the score, except for the first bar of a system. The issue with this video, is that we don't need an instrument button, all the instruments should be addable from their sections, like Piano in the expression bit, and so on... The cheese melts, whilst Finlandia burns...
I’m alone in my bedroom at 5AM (perhaps that contributes) and I’ve never laughed this hard out loud before. There are tears in my eyes. This video has materially improved the trajectory of my life purely off the strength of the joy I just experienced. Thank you
@@philipkapadia1852 What a patriarchal, sexist, racist comment! How dare you assume my gender! The Mariachi Band Composer Union local 224 will hear of this!
remember: to subscribe to a channel, open the account menu, click the three dots at the end, and then click the "save" option; "subscribe" will be the 2nd option in the notification (trumpet) drop-down (sorted in reverse alphabetical)
I had to use Sibelius for music class. I dropped the class pretty quickly but before then pretty much all I did in that program was stretch the bars into infinity
I prefer Word online to Google docs - with one exception: Google allows you to keep writing offline and saves it whenever it comes back online. I really like that.
Try Rhinoceros. Max is madness. Sketchup is made by monkeys. Rhinoceros is the only UI that makes sense. Also, Rhino is good. Also, NURBS - Because mesh editing is so 1998.
@@UnitSe7en Here come the blender fanboys... Personally I think Rhino is only really good because of Grasshopper. It's a shader based workflow for 3D modelling.
@@Croz89 gotta admit, as a user of maya, blenders' new ui just feels so nice. I'm going to look into rhinoceros, because maya is just an embodiment of a development team strangled by its stakeholders.
16:33 Honestly, this is the one thing I can understand: It is one more click, but by showing you where it is it teaches you about the interface. In a sane program this would lead to you quickly not needing the "Find" bar anymore. In this insane program it is one more click you will never remember.
I like IntelliJ’s action menu. Ctrl+Shift+A, the menu lets you directly invoke the action, but it also shows you the hot key. So it teaches you, but it also just works for quick shortcuts. Quicker to Ctrl+Shift+A and a few keystrokes then to click down several menus in many cases. Best of both worlds.
I have never used Sibelius. This video was just recommended to me because I was watching videos about music theory and I'm a software dev. I've never watched such a satisfying rant. You also just made MuseScore slightly more bearable.
this video is a few months old, I have next to zero knowledge about music, software development, and UI design but youtube recommends this to me and I strangely enjoyed it... wot
As a 0 time Sibelius user, I enjoyed every minute of this video. There must been some hard work done for all the smart subtle changes and the ever escalating BGMs.
THIS VIDEO IS SO F'ing BRILLIANT and all true. I have been using Sibelius ever since MOTU Composer/Mosaic disappeared. I have a total love/hate relationship with it. Here's the scary thing: you released this 5 years ago, and almost all of the things that make us crazy about Sibelius are still there.
This is the first video of yours that RUclips sent my way and holy _shit_ man, you don't lie when you say it may go off the rails! Sibelius will forever haunt me... But I'm a photographer!
Wow this is UI design I expect from open source alternative Linux software that people on forums say are ''totally just as good'', not a program that's been developed over 25 years and costs actual money
Funny thing is MuseScore (a free scorewriter) actually has a much more intuitive interface (not perfect, but at least it's easier to understand where everything is).
If your UX is worse than the FOSS version, you're doing something *terribly* wrong (this is coming from someone who pretty much always uses the FOSS version)
@@waterlubber Funny thing is the last time I opened Photoshop I was scared and confused because everything was intuitively in the place I didn't expect it to be in GIMP
No no, UI design like open source alternative Linux software written by a single person in their free time because they can't/won't afford other software so they wrote their own. Like, UI design that is intuitive to exactly one person on the planet.
There seems to be an unspoken misunderstanding that if an application requires some skill to use that it must be awkward and obtuse to use. Like it's a test to see if you're smart enough. I'll be having nightmares filled with gore after watching this. Hurrah
Most music software UIs are godawful. Cubase for Windows is a nightmare. So many of these things use tiny little bit mapped fonts that were last readable at 1997 screen resolutions. Just horrible.
After watching his video on Musescore 4 I decided to come back here where it all began. Tantacrul deciding he's done with notation software being an incomprehensible mess and drastically improving it forever was a huge powermove. As the saying goes: If you want something done right, do it yourself.
@@rin_etoware_2989 The text search simply matches the start of the string Violon_cello_ → 'cello' is at the end and so can't be directly searched _Piano_forte → 'piano' is at the beginning and so can be directly searched That's what he meant about the search being from the 90s
Please do one about Musescore. Except send it to the development team because they might actually incorporate your feedback being an open source product.
Personaly I use musescore, it is not perfect, but it is free and open source, and does the job pretty well when you're use to it. Compare to Sibelius who does cost 500$ or more I don't remember and have the kind of things shown in this video.
I have used both Sibelius 6 (on Windows) and MuseScore 2.x and actually found Sibelius 6 much more stable and easier to use, especially when inputting notes using the keyboard (computer keyboard, not a MIDI keyboard) and for use with my MIDI synthesizers. Really looking forward to giving MuseScore another chance now that version 3.0 is imminent and that better support for MIDI out has been implemented.
@@shdon Yes I understand what you're saying, I personaly use musescore because I don't want to pay for sibelius anymore, and couple of reason that are list in the video.
I regularly come back here when I feel frustrated with Sibelius. I often send the link to my GCSE and A level music students whenever they moan about how hard it is to use.
Hey, you want some good news? Tantacrul (this guy, the guy who made this vid) did another on open source program MuseScore... which resulted in them hiring him as their product lead. He has since whipped it into shape, turning it from a very-good-for-a-free-program program and made it into something beautiful and joyful to use with the latest 4.0 release. Maybe transition to that. Try it out!
Please, please send this video to them. Sibelius is a car crash. The sheer frustration of having to use this in university. I tried compose something a few days back, forgot how to make a tempo marking the correct way, and just quit the program after 25 minutes of clicking menus on a blank score.
The confusing UI is a metaphore for the confusion of his mind. The software won't remember your settings because the _world_ does not remember. The contradictions in his art are literal contradictions in the code. His latent suicidal tendencies are mirrored by the application shutting itself down.
Open Sibelius, Sibelius crashed. Install Sibelius, Sibelius crashed. Open Finale, Sibelius crashed. Uninstall Sibelius, Sibelius crashed. Turn on computer, Sibelius crashed. Turn off computer, Sibelius crashed. Go for a walk, Sibelius crashed. Read a book, Sibelius crashed. Buy a house, Sibelius crashed. Visit another planet, Sibelius crashed. Don’t have a computer? Sibelius crashed. Sibelius crashes? Sibelius crashed again.
But to be serious, it's said to be more of a "history burden", maybe they didn't have proper UI designing skills before and the feature list went skyrocketed and they just say F it. Dorico feels a bit better for getting the right things done early enough, and it's said that the whole Dorico team is just 8 people, probably the exact same team as the old Sibelius team. Though for the most part the "long list" is still there in Dorico, it's just that it's in the context (right mouse button) menu and it's not for symbols. Well, at least giving that it's exactly just 8 people now and they are all written on a tiny credit window we know for sure who to blame.
@@InXLsisDeo I think the product manager stays the same from Sibelius to Dorico... And he's also the guy doing all the blog posts for Dorico now, plus being the community manager, plus also the guy that designed the music font for Dorico. So, personal theory then? They had the intention, and probably the skill to do proper UI design, but they've created such a powerful monster that they themselves can't defeat, so they just gave up. Exactly what will happen when the same design got 200 revisions that adds new features without a full revamp.
Hey everyone - I'm sure you've noticed that there's been a large gap between my videos recently. The reason is that I have a lot of other work I need to take on to pay the bills. Although my channel is still growing nicely, it's is not yet at the level where I can dedicate the sort of time I think it deserves. So, if you have a bit of spare coin, I'd ask that you please consider become a Patron to support my channel. If not, don't worry. Thanks a lot for watching, regardless! www.patreon.com/Tantacrul
Could you link to the MS Word talk?
Keep it up. Your content is beyond anything else offered on Youtbe currently! I'll just be waiting here....
Your videos are informative and funny. I value this, and I'm already supporting a few creators on Patreon so I've added you. I noticed that you've selected "per video" instead of "per month", which means that unless you release something you won't get any money. Is that what you were wanting, or did you want a more reliable income regardless of release schedule?
"i bought Ableton the next day"
I downvoted you because you use OSX
"The cheese melts in the microwave, the music melts in Sibelius"
--Tantacrul, Nov 15, 2018
The smartest and most coherent thing I've ever said.
@Downward Spiral
Your username and the quote fit so well together that I think you should marry
SIBELIUS CRASHED
I was literally in tears laughing at that point.
【ＴＨＥ ＢＬＡＣＫ ＢＥＡＭＳ ＣＡＮ ＳＴＲＥＴＣＨ， ＴＨＥＹ ＣＡＮ ＳＴＲＥＴＣＨ ＶＥＲＹ ＨＩＧＨ】
As an avid sibelius user (get it? haha...) I watch this video ever 3 months as a sort of cleansing ritual to remind myself that I am not alone in my suffering.
I've used sibelius 7 since I was 11 (I'm 16) I know it can be hard but I love it on the whole
same with finale lol
I don’t use Sibelius (my bf is a Composer which is how I even heard of this) but I watch this every now and then because it’s such a good video in and of itself lol
avid is literally evil
Just change to Musescore bro cringe
Back in college, one of my friends pirated sibelius 7. We were very excited to begin electronic arrangement, as it promised to make the process much simpler. after attempting to use it for several days, we came to the conclusion that the version that we had pirated was an early developer's beta launch. It was practically unusable. only after watching this video, do I realize that we had the full version of the program. It's just that bad.
this is so sad. omg.
Should have gone with Dorico at that point
@@WolfrostWasTaken Dorico might not have existed at that point, so it would have to have been Finale instead.
If I were in your shoes, I would have thought it had an anti-piracy measure that made the UI look like a mess intentionally.
sibelius has ALWAYS been bad. seriously. I had to use it in college long ago. it was garbage then, and garbage now.
They insisted on 'violoncello', yet... not 'pianoforte', for some reason.
They wanna sound like they know shit but they don't actually
To be fair, violoncello is still the official name, while pianoforte is considered outdated.
@@brandonk.4864 I’d say violoncello is kinda outdated though too
@@brandonk.4864 I didn't even know it was called Pianoforte. It makes more sense, tbh.
@@mrpedrobraga It just makes so much sense.
This genuinely taught me how to input tempo, I'm not joking.
It's easy more easier than that!
You know that while you are writing the score, you can change the note length by the numpad.
If you enter the tempo text, you hit ctr and the corresponding numpad key
@@alhdgysz Ah yes, quite intuitive...you know I think I might have discovered that by spilling my coffee.
@@liesdamnlies3372 the interesting part is this: the drop-down containing the character so shows the keyboard shortcut....
The "right-click" to obtain the menu (which does not actually "drop down" from anywhere) is the thing I hate the most in Sibelius. I have to look it up every time.
@@christydavidpallanivel1708 that is not avid's fault......
Should change their name to AVOID
This one got me
watched this and remembered that Pro Tools isnt even their worst piece of software
"The black beams can stretch. They can stretch really high." That cracked my shit.
a lot of the video was funny, but that was the only part when I laughed out loud
long beam is loooooooooooooooooooooong
If someone doesn't make that snippet into a RUclips haiku, I will
@@bugglest0n
The black beams can stretch
They can stretch even farther
That shit cracked me up
17:02
When he said he might go a bit off the rails I expected an angry rant, not..Existential Horror in Fmajor.
This is my new favorite video of all time.
"Existensial Horror in Fmajor" that is just... godly. I'm gonna have to write that down somewhere.
More like cosmic horror; what the heck even is existential horror?
@@KnakuanaRka horror that makes you question existence.
I feel like it could we worthy of usage of the Locrian mode
Sibelius crashed
The princess is in another dialog box!
This one is filled with gore
@@informitas0117 Aren't all princesses filled with gore?
💀
@@TheAgamemnon911 well........ yes
I've been using Sibelius Version 1.4 for the past twenty years- really good, though I recently upgraded to pencil and paper!
Nothing can beat pencil and paper at intuitivity
@@davinchristino The only things I think compete is drinking milk and the concept of gravity, intuitively speaking.
Try Musescore 4 :D
ill never understand why everyone is trying to move forward to programs like Sibelius when it doesn't improve on (and is usually worse) than the already existing pencil & paper
@@growskull i think there is a general appeal in electronic composition due to the programme providing things such as playback, but generally this is promonent for beginners
Late to comment, but:
This video is actually a better tutorial on how to use Sibelius than any other I've seen...
Tells how bad tutorials are.
But we kinda know that already.
Yea right ? At least now i know how to change the actual tempo not the one on the pane thingy
"How to use Sibelius: don't."
William Bieneman Took the words RIGHT outta my mouth.
I tried looking up a tutorial but Sibelius crashed
i dont even own it
The first time I saw this video, I was really ill and out of it at the time, so when the video starts going a bit crazy I thought i'd finally snapped. It was hilarious, but like, I had no idea how much of it was real. Really added to the experience honestly.
I’m not a musician, or a software designer. I’ve never heard of this application, nor have I ever watched a video by this guy. I have absolutely no idea why this video was recommended to me, but do I regret watching it 5 times? Absolutely not! The arc of gradual madness displayed in this cinematic masterpiece is absolutely amazing. The clashing forces of Tantacruel, our protagonist, and Sibelius, our mad god villain. The story told between these two opposing parties is beautifully absorbing and incredibly Lovecraftian. Thank you, algorithm. And thank you, Tantacruel.
The product manager and the sales manager must have hanged themselves. Then again, they are responsible for this mess. Except for the even worse AVID bosses who decided to guillotine the product overnight instead of overhauling it. Great management, AVID ! Now you have a much better competitor called Dorico, made by the very own employees you sacked ! Not that you care since you killed your own product in the first place.
It's notable that ProTools is following a similar shitty path. While it's still widely used in studios only for habit reasons, it's now a subpar software if compared to the competition.
Dude, believe, me: I work with this baby program EVERY SINGLE DAY (beacuse I hate Finale) and I can tell you: There's no inch of this video that I do not LOVE! Specially the Lynchean style of the last minutes. Well, Lynch/Cronemberg... LOVED IT BIG TIME!
I like how this is the exact same comment as the one above it
Bitwig?
Boy, if you had ever used Avid's Sibelius, you would have suffered at seeing this, our daily dream & nightmare.
I watched this video and Sibelius crashed.
I don't even have it installed.
Haha!
:-))
I'm on Android and it still crashed
@@Henrix1998 Same.
I think that UI might have given me cancer.
Haven’t been born yet? Sibelius crashed.
i dont do music notation, have never heard of this app, and have no idea why youtube suggested this to me, but i had a lot of fun watching your descent into madness
stay strong, my dude
Same. And I showed all my musician friends 8 months ago when it was originally recommended.
Today it was recommended again.
same, this came out of absolutely nowhere and im not sure why i clicked on it, but im so glad i did
me too thanks
I'm not a musician, and don't use notation software. But I work at a musician's store and I do use game development software, so I just chalked this up to "google listened to me through my phone again and gave me a recommendation based loosely on my hobbies".
That was hilarious! I hope he finds the ability to make a living doing RUclips.
this video is the Don’t Hug Me I’m Scared of musical notation software critique video essays
Never has a more accurate, succinct, but ultimately baffling analogy/review been made.
If I taught a class on UI design, I would use your quote as an introduction before showing this video to my class. Just to scare them.
this is perhaps the most obscure comment i have ever bore witness to
Yeah, I was thinking of DHMIS (particularly that section in the first episode) at some point.
the last few minutes of the video sorta gave those vibes
im here for it
Samuel and I use Sibelius every single day for notating the piano arrangements we release on our channel. I've used it for 13 years myself (started with Sibelius 2). But even having used the ribbon since its release in 2011, to this day it's remained unintuitive and functions I'm looking for tend not to be where I expect. The old menu system was easier to use. Ribbons in Sibelius have never really made sense to me. -Andrew
Haha, holy shit, a Sheet Music Boss comment on a video that has no likes? What a surprise.
What are your thoughs on Musescore?
@Elijah The Corgi Not sure the missus would approve of me throwing another decade on the mortgage lol
Ribbons never improved word either.
Unreal Russian Shit soundfonts, no suspended cymbals, text support is abysmal, the stems can fly they can fly really high, midi support crashes
Otherwise, it's a very nice piece of software
The fact that this video was automatically suggested to me after spending a whole week looking up forums answers and video tutorials for this god forsaken software pleases me.
That makes me happy :)
did you ever figure out how to use it?
You know it's a great and intuitive piece of software when you have to google absolutely every little thing you want to do. Even better when the answer usually is "no, you can't do that."
Actually, that's a little scary...
666 likes - the devil put this vid in your suggestions - he is teasing you with little screaming parts of hell!
I deeply appreciate the effort put into the CC to communicate the mental breakdown causing feature that is Sibelius crashing every 5 minutes
CC? C compiler?
@@Roflcopter4b closed captions
S̴͓̅͐i̴͍̰̓̈ḇ̶̳̈́e̴͉̒ḽ̸̫̅̿i̷̲̩̒ù̷͖̣̋s̸͈̈́̈́ ̴̯͕͠͠C̴̡̈̑r̸̩̀a̶̡̤͘s̵̳͊͠h̶͍̀e̷̦̕ḑ̵̖̔͋
Thanks for noticing!
@@colecube8251 i.e. subtitles?
Ive learned too many of Sibelius's kinks to ever think of switching to something else. Sibelius has beaten me into submission. I often wonder what other music notation software is like... but then I remind myself the horrors of learning the kinks of a new music notation program and reassure myself that even though Sibelius still beats the living shit out of me on a daily basis... I know I have it coming to me. I deserve it. Somewhere deep down Sibelius still loves me. So I stick around.
Oh my goodness you've helped me understand why people keep using horrible systems (...and stay addicted to bad things and get stuck in all kinds of negative patterns...). It's not your fault!
If all your practical experiences are of using something that is terrible and depressing, and you have no experiential knowledge of alternatives that let you complete your goals more easily+positively, what right does your brain have to assume that the different approaches that you know are out there might actually be easier, more fun, less work, not a drudge to switch over to, and worth the effort?
Sibelius doesn't love you. You are in an abusive relationship! You have learned it's kinks in order to better serve it, but it still doesn't appreciate it. You can still leave this relationship. Find help in a local shelter near you, or in Musescore or whatever.
I think that's called Stockholm syndrome
@Max Designs Not natively within Sibelius itself, but my version of Sibelius was bundled with a program called Audioscore that can transcribe audio. I never tried it or downloaded it though
Everyone here is proving deep philosophical comments and I’m here like
‘Hehe he said kink big funny”
This video. This cursed video. It has been popping up in my recommended for MONTHS. I never paid any attention to it. I always glanced over it, never making a conscious record of it. But I knew of its existence. I wasn't expecting it to return to my recommended feed, but was never surprised when it did. No, "not surprised" isn't the right term here. It felt /right/ in my recommended feed. Never being clicked on, but never being paid enough attention to to click away.
Until today. I don't know what happened, but today I did something I've never done before: I read this video's title. I was surprised I had never read the title, since the thumbnail had grown so familiar, yet here I was actively reading those words for the first time. It intrigued me, and I clicked, knowing that I could be doing better, more productive things with my 21 minutes and 34 seconds.
The video itself was surprisingly good. The subject matter clicked with me. Somehow, this video which kept returning, yet never being too firm when asking my attention, gave me a lot more entertainment than imagined. And now I'm here. I've watched it. It won't return. Other videos might. But the familiarity is gone. And, in a sense, some safety is too.
Sibelius crashed.
House of Leaves: Sibelius Edition
This could be a novel
@@sebastianmorataboada9795 ??
@@Otra_Chica_de_Internet "House of Leaves" is one good but very confusing book, up to the point when it's still up to debate whether it's about terror or actually about love (as the author said himself)
I forgot music people humour hurts
I honestly do not believe I have ever laughed so hard at anything before in my life, and I hardly know anything about music. This is by far the best review of anything I have ever seen. "The chees melts amber yellow, Sibelius memts red. The music is bleeding. I bring down the drop-down. It is filled with GORE.
It's somehow worse than Corsair's original CUE interface for adjusting the RGB lights. That monstrosity required you to basically memorize the 120-page manual in order to get anything done, but at least you could get instantaneous feedback on what you were doing.
I just wanna praise how well done the subtitles are. Perfectly capturing your comedic timing.
Thank Pentameron for those! He has a special level of commitment!
@Hola No Pentameron is a different guy who traditionally does my subtitles.
@@Tantacrul Oh hey, thanks for the shoutout!
Don't you hate when you finish the video and the comments are like, "Wow, the thing that you had turned off by default and only exists 10% of the time sure adds to the great experience!"
@@lrgogo1517 no, because you can rewatch and enjoy a whole new experience
When you realise that every button or tickbox or input box could lead to the crash of Sibelius, thus every clickable action of Sibelius equals „quit Sibelius“.
I’ve only ever had Sibelius crash when trying to export HD video, which is still irritating, but not the experience everyone seems to have.
Dear CEOs/Project Managers/Investors,
this is what happens when you say "the company doesn't need a UI/UX designer".
@@weakspirit_ imagine a world without Ncurses
*shudders*
the crushing majority of those designers is as dangerous as a toddler with grenade
not because ui/ux designers have something special
but simply because the crushing majority of _any_ category of software creators is as dangerous as a toddler with a grenade
This video is a masterpiece... The music and random crap really adds to it... I actually laughed at a factual review of bad software...wtf
Congratulations to the entire team for Musescore 4.
Finally a worthy software to dethrone this mess.
Unfortunatedly it crashes every time you trie to copy and paste some instrument...
MS4 is great, except for the fact that you need a separate window for each project despite the fact that tabs are BUILT IN TO THE UI
@@puernatura8998hopefully tantacrul will fix that
@HRBJHD Won't work, because open source
@@reshuram4353open source projects often get companies to put their crap together in order to stay relevant.
Me and my friend understand almost zero when it comes to music theory - let alone writing it - but we're just psyching out shouting "Sibelius crashed!" now.
A friend shoved Sibelius Crashed down my throat and here I am.
My musician friends don't even use Sibellius but we shout that when things go wrong now.
[Quit Sibelius]
That's ok, Sibelius understand almost zero when it comes to interface design - let alone developing one
W H A T
This turned into a "Don't Hug Me.I'm scared" video. I went from smiling to crying my eyes out laughing fast.
You mean you weren't doing both?
What do you mean it was funny the. Whole way through for me though that may be the valium and nitrous oxide talking (commenting from the dentist's office)
Green is not a creative color.
@@liamkennedy8768 He meant a nervous laugh, with tears and eveything.
Same
Started off as a rant on Sibelius' awful design, ended with a nightmare-fueled LSD trip birthed by the seven demons of hell
It literally was like the first episode of Don't Hug Me I'm Scared all over again.🥴😱💀
@@kerserzthescientist8899 Well thanks for opening up that pandoras box for me, holy moly
4th
10th
WTH did I just watch...?
Can we all just appreciate the creativity put into the subtitles of this video?
I left the subtitles on, not because I need them, but just how fun they are to read.
Glad you enjoyed it!
“This software should be called Morton Feldman” is a joke that I don’t have the background to understand, but I can just feel that it’s hilarious.
For those who don't get it, Feldman's later and more famous pieces are known to be several hours long.
@@PentameronSV hllol
Pentameron Yes, but I feel like the joke was that Morton Feldman worked with chance in his music (using things like a deck of cards to determine notes), not unlike how some of Sibelius’s features were made.
@@PentameronSV And I guess nobody undertstands this music
Morton Feldman experimented with chance and uncertainty in some of his music notation. In his sheet music, certain things (such as note duration, or exact pitches) are left up to chance. Thus: "It's almost like the position of things was decided by the roll of the dice. This app should be called Morton Feldman!"
“Slightly off the rails”
THE MUSIC IS BLEEDING
open the dialog...
_i t ' s f i l l e d w i t h g o r e_
Not gonna lie, I might accidentally break something had a thing like that happened to me. Glad this is just video editing.
Uhhh where's the send butt-OHGODHELP%#_
[Sibelius crashed]
The music is so busy the audio sounds like two radio stations played at the same time ..
The first thing our music teacher told is about Sibelius was “if in doubt, press esc”
I didn’t realise how useful that advice would be
And then Apple removed the physical ESC Key :D
And reintroduced it. Sibelius users?
Muse score is arguably less frustrating, and free.
@@guitarplayer1994 Tantacrul is one. On Windows the buttons says "Exit Sibelius" though it's still where "Next"/"Finish"/"Create" should be.
If you dare press the escape key though...
*s i b e l i u s c r a s h e d*
Now the first advice is: use Dorico instead.
The sheer sense of relief I felt when you changed the "add or remove" button to a plus says it all
so glad this popped up in my recommended again because this is maybe my favorite video on this site
Wait 'till you see Musescore and Dorico ones :)
Like this video. Sibelius Crashed
Yeah this, Star Trek Acid Party, and Waffle Falling Over, and then maybe just delete the rest of RUclips
@@thecianinator I just want you to know that I love you for making me discover the Star Trek Acid Party, I'm pretty into weird deep youtube videos and this might be one of the greatest of all. I watched all of it, it was quite an experience. Thank you, you made my day
It’s my favorite video on RUclips as well, and I don’t even use musical notation software
I remember having to use this in school for our composition module and people actually getting worse marks on their exams because we only had 4 weeks and Sybelius made it next to impossible for anyone to write any of their coursework because we were obviously never taught how to use it in depth.
If I ever saw that software walking on the street I would take it out with my bare hands in broad fucking daylight, I would do time, and I would smile forever
LOL ... yup. I went to Humber college's bachelor of music program, and Sibelius was required in our 2nd year theory class. Yikes, bad times. I actually use guitar pro for all of my notation needs now, because it is 500 times more intuitive.
Oh hey, that literally just happened to me in the same circumstances for the same reason. Funny how nothing changes
@@captainkiwi77 Is this version still being used in education????? That deserves a petition quite honestly
I've never even considered writing music, and yet looking at Sibelius side-by-side with any of its competitors I've seen, it looks like something made by an army of sixth graders.
"Parameter dump" is a really good term for this. Some of these dialogue boxes feel only one step removed from just a list of parameters and their values.
There's a lot of features, but very little thought about the actual workflow.
Editing a JSON file would be easier. At least then you could automate it a bit.
It's impressive to see a UI more labyrinthian and inconsistent than Dwarf Fortress.
Omg how
Hey, at least Dwarf Fortress is playable now! It only took like a decade and a half.
@@Huntracony nah, they just replaced inconsistent text menus with different inconsistent text menus and occasionally - with 5 pixel wide pictograms. I’d stick to the classic for now, at least it’s free.
@@AntonNidhoggr I've tried and given up on classic multiple times in the past. I've not had any major problems with the Steam version. I've not had to look up how to do anything so far. I wouldn't call it _good_ UI, but it's usable.
Here's a problem with the Steam version: it's 40 dollars
The last 5 minutes of this video felt like psychosis.
S I B E L I U S C R A S H E D
it was awesome lol
Which is also indeed the general mood when working with the software in question
It slowly turns into a Mr Plinkett gag.
If you li-
If you li-
"If Beethoven was alive today, Sibelius would prevent him from composing music."
That line broke me.
Sibelius crashing while trying to close it? Well task failed successfully I guess
You could have some memory leak issues if you don't deallocate memory correctly when closing a program but you are mostly correct.
Doesn't OS automatically clean-up all memory associated with a process when it shuts down?
@@danilafoxpro2603 When the OS shuts down yes, but in my experience you shouldn't assume that all memory got deallocated when you shut something off. Managed to take up all ram in my computer while ironically making a memory game due to me not propperly deallocating objects when the program was finished and me testing it many times in a row.
Huh. Which OS/language did you use, if you don't mind me asking?
I tested it with C++ (although the code might compile in C too) on Windows 7 64bit (compiling for 32bit though), with the following code: collabedit.com/ese32.
The program tries to allocate around 200MB of memory and then crashes (, the finest crash I'm capable of, memory access violation). I profiled it via 'Task Manager' performance tab, and all memory allocated to the program seems to be deallocated.
(I also tested launching a bunch of instances of the program at the same time, so the total memory taken goes to 2GB, and have done it multiple times, with all programs crashing each time. Memory seems to always return to pre-program launch levels.)
I'm using C++, so I can use pointer wrappers; Pointers that automatically deallocate when going out of scope, pointers that count references and auto-deallocate when nothing references them, you name it. But I still use raw pointers sometimes, and sometimes I forget to free them. I guess I'm the adventurous type.
Gives off the impression it's easier to write a score by hand and then scan it.
It is!
i was fine until "the black beams can stretch, they can stretch really high!" and "let's take a hairpin and stretch it to the next page- oh no, hairpin's busted."
I love the tangents you go on. Like, who puts a little Elizabeth Olsen tangent in the middle of a video about Sibelius with no context? Tantacrul does that.
The escalation at the end is perfectly executed, i love this and i love you
There’s a new, absurdist, multimedia, artistic movement going on through RUclips. This shit inspires me... might just have to jump in and join you cool kids.
P.s. Eric if you haven’t seen it check out “The Interface” - a web series by RUclips channel “Umami”
Did anybody else literally cry with laughter? No?
@SpiderShlongGaming yeah I hadn't really considered the multimedia nature of Umami, but yeah it's there. Also I see it in the indie games like Stardew Valley that are coming out where there's one person creating the game and music all in one.
The escalation... *at the end*? The beautiful part about this is that the escalation is there from the beginning, but increases in a very subtle way :)
The problem is Sibelius wasn't designed, it was engineered.
I was a beta tester of the Sibelius of chess software: Aquarium, I remember seeing it fall to become gradually unusable from version to version in a similar fashion, with a similar poor usage of the Ribbon (used to be called "Fluid UI") and I just gave up and quit after the main feature, the only reason to use Aquarium, "IDeA" (Interactive DEep Analysis) became unusable from one version to the next.
I had never seen such an abomination of poor UI design until today, because despite all its problems, Aquarium is peanuts to Sibelius in that respect. Whoa!
@@pseudoNAME1979 Yes, I watched this with my brother and this video scared him, his crying wasn't so joyful
As an interaction designer, I suffer both mentally and physically watching this.
beats finale.
also, killer video.
I certainly thought the same thing when I originally made my choice. Need to go back to Finale and see if the years have been kind. Thanks, btw. Enjoy your stuff a lot.
@@Tantacrul Granted, I don't know of anybody who disagrees with the general premise of this video - the implementation of the ribbon in Sibelius 7 was godawful. I use hotkeys anyway, so I'm never up there in the ribbon, but when I do, it's just miserable.
Still beats Finale. God does that program suck.
Having used Finale since about 1989, I'm curious to know what you two don't like about it. Getting through Finale's initial learning curve and unhelpful user manuals was brutal in 1989. But since then I have had no issues with it, and I only remember hearing horror stories from those using Sibelius. Finale just released version 26 on October 10, 2018, and I'd be interested in more useful comparison besides "Finale isn't very good" or "beats finale."
@@jbh001 Then you best subscribe because a Finale review is coming. And it's coming in hot!
As the kids say, "big mood"
So they go with violoncello but not pianoforte???
I know ... at least have some consistency bloody hell
Pianoforte or fortepiano. They couldn't choose.
Search engine from the 90s roflmao
@@pixiepandaplush
What about pianofortepiano then?
@@nextlifeonearth Hey, I don’t mind. My colleagues who use Maya have the same thing. However, Maya is highly customisable. One has to find a command once and then add it to a shelf or make a shortcut.
"If Beethoven was alive today, Sibelius would have prevented him from being a composer" 😂😂😂
"Sorry Tantacrul! But the time signature button is in another parameter box!"
I think they should test the software with people who have never used it before and study how they expect the program to work. By examining how people with no experience try to get it to work and comparing how it actually works they can make adjustments to make it more intuitive to the layperson.
They could use this program to torture terrorist's , way more effective than waterboarding.
It's almost like testing software on people who've never used it before is a basic technique found in any UI/UX class
So basically of testing ?
"Some users found it difficult to navigate at first, which is an expected outcome when faced with any specialized application with a correspondingly steep learning curve. AVID has received a great deal of encouragement from our users over the years regarding the ease of use and navigability of Sibelius. As always, we welcome user feedback and will take any suggestions into consideration for future releases. So %!$# off with your negativity."
-- AVID PR, probably.
One thing I disagree with: the search function taking you to where the button can be found is a good thing in my opinion - first time users will find themselves navigating the ribbon more easily going forward when they can remember where the thing was last time.
But of course this only matters when the ribbon is actually functional.
the solution then would be to highlight it when you _hover_ over the option, but actually perform the action when you click it.
@@chroma.z Not a UI designer, but it seems like that would create a flickering mess where different ribbons are entered when hovering over different options. It would also overwrite whatever ribbon you were in, which can be a bit frustrating when you're "in the zone". The most common solution to this problem is to type out the search path (e.g. Home -> Select to find Filters), which is used in Photoshop.
It just feels very passive aggressively, as strange as that sounds. I would prefer something that would tell me what buttons to press in order, and then a "show me" button to click if I DO want it to drag me to what to click on. Unless I go through the process myself I won't remember
Illustrator does this righ
Yes and no . . . I use the little search box a lot. It's very annoying at times. Other times it's what I'm looking for.
I loved this video.
It'd be more intuitive to engrave a composition in MS Paint compared to Sibelius.
The Exiled Nomad. And the paint version would STILL have a higher chance of playing back to you the way you wrote it.
Beethoven would do that.
I dont compose music. But I think I would much rather just sketch short music out in a program like photoshop. With the different details being different layers you can just move around
@@gemstonegynoid7475 no
After watching the musescore 4 video, I really appreciate the wonderful playback and workflow. I decided to revisit the notation series as everyone of them is a dramatic masterpiece. Can't wait for the finale...finale.
Finale was the first notation programme I bought. Small and valuable.
My Sibelius crashed while I was finishing writing a fugue for an 18 hour exam, I was actually in pain. Knowing now that I'm not alone in this make me feel a little better.
This video made my day, thanks man!
Man, that sucks. How'd your exam go?
A, did you save beforehand?
B, how was the exam?
@@KnakuanaRka luckily I'm quite obsessed with saving every 5 minutes, so I didn't lose too much work, but I almost had a heart attack. At the end it went well ;)
@@lifeontheledgerlines8394 Very good despite all the trouble! I saved everything a while before so the work wasn't lost for good :)
@@camimilks Oh, I'm glad you didn't lose all your work, that would've been horrible. Wel, I'll use your story as motivation to save more often because I do not save often enough, and if I was in your shoes, I would've been screwed. Well, have a nice day! Your exams, and depending on your location, school year are probably done, so enjoy the summer.
"The black beams can stretch, they can stretch really high."
I died. I absolutely died laughing.
17:03 for anyone interested.
It was that way with the ancient version of Finale I used, too. Things like stretching beams was easy, you'd learn to do that on your own without even trying. probably without even wanting to.
But something common like an anacrusis you would have no chance to figure out on your own; I think you had to click on one button to change another button and then right-click for a context menu on that again.
I nearly died too.
You can really see the point where he starts to lose it.
Those beams are gonna need some extra structural support.
Rip in piece
A fantastic and somehow genuinely disturbing thing about this video is how the music becomes increasingly more unhinged, and matches the narrative of the commentary perfectly.
𝙏𝙝𝙚 𝙐𝙄 𝙞𝙨 𝙛𝙪𝙡𝙡 𝙤𝙛 𝙜𝙤𝙧𝙚
𝐒𝐢𝐛𝐞𝐥𝐢𝐮𝐬 𝐜𝐫𝐚𝐬𝐡𝐞𝐝
How do you type in those different fonts?
@@InventorZahran Here you go:
lingojam.com/FancyLetters
wow its almost as if that was the intention
I genuinely love how random “Be careful when turning the pancakes, you drop them and they have to go in the bin” (17:51) is.
9:13 I'm honestly surprised they don't call the piano a 'pianoforte.'
Nah it is, you just gotta go find it in the Expression box, along with fortepiano, piano, mezzoforte and so on, as the only thing in there is piano, which is keyboard, which you have right in front of you, like what I'm typing on. Saxes on the other hand, is way harder, because they are in the notation bit, where you kind find the clefs Alto Saxophone, Tenor Saxophone, but not Sub Baritone Sax, then you gotta to lines, where the octave line is, as you can't use clefs to show it during the score, except for the first bar of a system. The issue with this video, is that we don't need an instrument button, all the instruments should be addable from their sections, like Piano in the expression bit, and so on... The cheese melts, whilst Finlandia burns...
I lost 30 IQ points just by trying to understand this
@@aspensinclair3253 Now you know my pain.
I’m alone in my bedroom at 5AM (perhaps that contributes) and I’ve never laughed this hard out loud before. There are tears in my eyes. This video has materially improved the trajectory of my life purely off the strength of the joy I just experienced. Thank you
I don't know how this showed up in my recommendations, but this is the best review ever!
the writing is top-tier
RUclips algorithm is wack. So much so, it cause Sibelius to crash.
I think it showed up in mine because I watch Adam Neely.
I'm a professional Mariachi band composer... and I find your dismissal of our beloved art form HIGHLY OFFENSIVE!
@@philipkapadia1852 What a patriarchal, sexist, racist comment! How dare you assume my gender!
The Mariachi Band Composer Union local 224 will hear of this!
@@I_leave_mean_comments what did they even say?
@@savagenovelist2983 Something patriarchal, sexist and racist, as well as assumed the person's gender.
@@I_leave_mean_comments
shut fuck up guy presumably with head
Hahaha
remember: to subscribe to a channel, open the account menu, click the three dots at the end, and then click the "save" option; "subscribe" will be the 2nd option in the notification (trumpet) drop-down (sorted in reverse alphabetical)
Ah you're a lifesaver, now I can sub to my favorite channels.
Instructions unclear, crashed sibelius.
I had no idea that I'd laugh this hard watching a music notation app review.
It's the wildest ride when the craziness seeps in
I don't even use Sibelius or music notation software but this video's seriously engaging and these issues exist across the spectrum of software.
Same here.
*THE BLACK BEAMS CAN STRETCH THEY CAN STRETCH REALLY HIGH*
lmao
I had to use Sibelius for music class. I dropped the class pretty quickly but before then pretty much all I did in that program was stretch the bars into infinity
I never thought I would appreciate MS Word for being so complex, yet so simptistic in how the interface was handled.
I prefer Word online to Google docs - with one exception: Google allows you to keep writing offline and saves it whenever it comes back online. I really like that.
@@Tantacrul I know this is old, but Office has autosaving, which you can link to a cloud account. Basically the same.
There's so much effort that's gone into the subtitles. I beg *everyone* to watch this with subs on, it's... life changing.
3D modeling softwares: *Allow us to introduce ourselves*
More like 3DS
Try Rhinoceros. Max is madness. Sketchup is made by monkeys. Rhinoceros is the only UI that makes sense. Also, Rhino is good. Also, NURBS - Because mesh editing is so 1998.
@@UnitSe7en Here come the blender fanboys... Personally I think Rhino is only really good because of Grasshopper. It's a shader based workflow for 3D modelling.
@@UnitSe7en I love Fusion 360, and have found it really easy to learn.
@@Croz89 gotta admit, as a user of maya, blenders' new ui just feels so nice. I'm going to look into rhinoceros, because maya is just an embodiment of a development team strangled by its stakeholders.
“You’re on Version 8 and you still haven’t fixed this yet?” So glad I found your channel. This software is currently $569 USD on Amazon!
IrnBruNYC I’m not paying that much for a piece of garbage!
And musescore is free and much better
16:33
Honestly, this is the one thing I can understand:
It is one more click, but by showing you where it is it teaches you about the interface.
In a sane program this would lead to you quickly not needing the "Find" bar anymore.
In this insane program it is one more click you will never remember.
I like IntelliJ’s action menu. Ctrl+Shift+A, the menu lets you directly invoke the action, but it also shows you the hot key. So it teaches you, but it also just works for quick shortcuts. Quicker to Ctrl+Shift+A and a few keystrokes then to click down several menus in many cases. Best of both worlds.
As a UX designer, I would show this video to all the employers that think that they know better than their users. Great work!
I have never used Sibelius. This video was just recommended to me because I was watching videos about music theory and I'm a software dev.
I've never watched such a satisfying rant. You also just made MuseScore slightly more bearable.
this video is a few months old, I have next to zero knowledge about music, software development, and UI design but youtube recommends this to me and I strangely enjoyed it... wot
Google knows the color of your soul's underwear.
The algorithm is omniscient.
Quit Sibelius
*SibEliuS CRAsHed*
Read email.
§ÌßÈLÌÚ§ ÇRħHÈÐ.
Task failed successfully
In my computer it actually crashes and restarts when i quit, i have to end with with task manager or else i get stuck in a loop
As a 0 time Sibelius user, I enjoyed every minute of this video. There must been some hard work done for all the smart subtle changes and the ever escalating BGMs.
“I bring up the drop down, but it’s filled with gore.”
-Tantacrul, 2018
Whoever made the English subtitles, props to you. These are the best subtitles I've ever seen in a RUclips video.
*sheds tear*
Someone noticed.
TRUEE
@@PentameronSV The legend itself
Except for deaf people, but, you know, whatever
@@user-qv2qf1jk5o Why is it a problem for deaf people? To my recollection the only illegible parts were repeating ones that had it clearly at first
The ending was the most perfectly executed thing I have ever seen on this platform... Good on you!
THIS VIDEO IS SO F'ing BRILLIANT and all true. I have been using Sibelius ever since MOTU Composer/Mosaic disappeared. I have a total love/hate relationship with it. Here's the scary thing: you released this 5 years ago, and almost all of the things that make us crazy about Sibelius are still there.
This is the first video of yours that RUclips sent my way and holy _shit_ man, you don't lie when you say it may go off the rails!
Sibelius will forever haunt me... But I'm a photographer!
Adjust shutter speed
*Sibelius crashed*
Wow this is UI design I expect from open source alternative Linux software that people on forums say are ''totally just as good'', not a program that's been developed over 25 years and costs actual money
Funny thing is MuseScore (a free scorewriter) actually has a much more intuitive interface (not perfect, but at least it's easier to understand where everything is).
It's not my fault you don't know how to hold shift+alt
If your UX is worse than the FOSS version, you're doing something *terribly* wrong
(this is coming from someone who pretty much always uses the FOSS version)
@@waterlubber Funny thing is the last time I opened Photoshop I was scared and confused because everything was intuitively in the place I didn't expect it to be in GIMP
No no, UI design like open source alternative Linux software written by a single person in their free time because they can't/won't afford other software so they wrote their own.
Like, UI design that is intuitive to exactly one person on the planet.
There seems to be an unspoken misunderstanding that if an application requires some skill to use that it must be awkward and obtuse to use. Like it's a test to see if you're smart enough. I'll be having nightmares filled with gore after watching this. Hurrah
Thanks for the view - Benji :)
*I have used this to compose music and it took me 3x longer than using finale*
@@Kari-tu3fs That's not surprising. I'm not exaggerating when I say that it was the most painful program I've ever had to learn.
@@Kari-tu3fs I was the opposite for me
Most music software UIs are godawful. Cubase for Windows is a nightmare. So many of these things use tiny little bit mapped fonts that were last readable at 1997 screen resolutions. Just horrible.
After watching his video on Musescore 4 I decided to come back here where it all began. Tantacrul deciding he's done with notation software being an incomprehensible mess and drastically improving it forever was a huge powermove. As the saying goes: If you want something done right, do it yourself.
Instructions unclear: I now have a platter of pancakes covered in blood and melted cheese.
M3L0619 Did Sibelius crash?
@@tepetti S I B E L I U S C R A S H E D
Well did you tr- *S I B E L I U S C R A S H E D*
He specifically asked for clean pancakes!
Sibelius quit itself.
I'm actually surprised considering the cello situation that they didn't require you type out pianoforte or fortepiano.
@@rin_etoware_2989 The text search simply matches the start of the string
Violon_cello_ → 'cello' is at the end and so can't be directly searched
_Piano_forte → 'piano' is at the beginning and so can be directly searched
That's what he meant about the search being from the 90s
I wouldn't be surprised if you had to type aquaforte or fortnite
Please do one about Musescore. Except send it to the development team because they might actually incorporate your feedback being an open source product.
YEsss
You're right, we will. In fact, most of the team have watched this video :)
Personaly I use musescore, it is not perfect, but it is free and open source, and does the job pretty well when you're use to it. Compare to Sibelius who does cost 500$ or more I don't remember and have the kind of things shown in this video.
I have used both Sibelius 6 (on Windows) and MuseScore 2.x and actually found Sibelius 6 much more stable and easier to use, especially when inputting notes using the keyboard (computer keyboard, not a MIDI keyboard) and for use with my MIDI synthesizers. Really looking forward to giving MuseScore another chance now that version 3.0 is imminent and that better support for MIDI out has been implemented.
@@shdon Yes I understand what you're saying, I personaly use musescore because I don't want to pay for sibelius anymore, and couple of reason that are list in the video.
I regularly come back here when I feel frustrated with Sibelius. I often send the link to my GCSE and A level music students whenever they moan about how hard it is to use.
Gcse music was hell with this
Hey, you want some good news? Tantacrul (this guy, the guy who made this vid) did another on open source program MuseScore... which resulted in them hiring him as their product lead. He has since whipped it into shape, turning it from a very-good-for-a-free-program program and made it into something beautiful and joyful to use with the latest 4.0 release. Maybe transition to that. Try it out!
I used musescore for my composition. Not much work and a high grade, thanks tantacrul!
21:28 Oh, look. Outro's busted...
Please, please send this video to them.
Sibelius is a car crash.
The sheer frustration of having to use this in university. I tried compose something a few days back, forgot how to make a tempo marking the correct way, and just quit the program after 25 minutes of clicking menus on a blank score.
Let me just say that descent into madness was utter genius.
In a twisted kind of way.
i was expecting "going off the rails" to be like a rant or something but was instead greeted with beautiful existentialist poetry
“The labels are pretty clear” *hovers mouse over the word clear*
underrated comment!
I promise to never, ever, ever again think that UX/UI isn't important. If there is a Hell, it exists in the layout of Sibelius.
*_I bring up the dropdown but it's filled with gore_*
Well, Sibelius was a drunk so maybe they designed the software while drunk as a hommage?
He was depressed, too. So the software is depressing as well.
@@mechantl0up Just like those depressed, this program is completely hopeless
in the beginning i was furious. but then remembered i'm a depressed finnish drunk composer myself, must be the weather here.
The confusing UI is a metaphore for the confusion of his mind. The software won't remember your settings because the _world_ does not remember. The contradictions in his art are literal contradictions in the code. His latent suicidal tendencies are mirrored by the application shutting itself down.
The very subtle and quick "foreshawdowing?" at 1:55 KILLED me. Excellent video.
*Quit Sibelius*
Thanks very much. I'm a fan :)
Sibelius crashed
Open Sibelius, Sibelius crashed. Install Sibelius, Sibelius crashed. Open Finale, Sibelius crashed. Uninstall Sibelius, Sibelius crashed. Turn on computer, Sibelius crashed. Turn off computer, Sibelius crashed. Go for a walk, Sibelius crashed. Read a book, Sibelius crashed. Buy a house, Sibelius crashed. Visit another planet, Sibelius crashed.
Don’t have a computer? Sibelius crashed. Sibelius crashes? Sibelius crashed again.
@@DavidLeeGrossmanMusic Sibelius didn't crash? Sibelius crashed anyway.
Sibelius Crashed
Edit: Aaah damn it! Someone beat me to it!
It's like a UI designer who didn't know anything about music was given a long list of symbols. That's it.
But to be serious, it's said to be more of a "history burden", maybe they didn't have proper UI designing skills before and the feature list went skyrocketed and they just say F it. Dorico feels a bit better for getting the right things done early enough, and it's said that the whole Dorico team is just 8 people, probably the exact same team as the old Sibelius team.
Though for the most part the "long list" is still there in Dorico, it's just that it's in the context (right mouse button) menu and it's not for symbols. Well, at least giving that it's exactly just 8 people now and they are all written on a tiny credit window we know for sure who to blame.
I kinda doubt they have an UI designer.
They didn't have a UI designer, that's the problem. The product manager was incompetent enough to think he could serve as a UI designer.
@@InXLsisDeo I think the product manager stays the same from Sibelius to Dorico... And he's also the guy doing all the blog posts for Dorico now, plus being the community manager, plus also the guy that designed the music font for Dorico.
So, personal theory then? They had the intention, and probably the skill to do proper UI design, but they've created such a powerful monster that they themselves can't defeat, so they just gave up. Exactly what will happen when the same design got 200 revisions that adds new features without a full revamp.
Somehow the UI looks ancient despite clearly having a modern aesthetic.
Gigantic buttons and lack of sharpness
It's like Windows 10
It’s using the same UI style as office 2007