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Hey Ross, can you please answer the question that bugs me since the release of Saturn 3 - does Elegoo's new build plates fit their previous models?) Specifically - the new Saturn 3 plate on Saturn 2
I have a different take on ACF from a business standpoint. I will (and do) sacrifice a SMALL amount of detail for mass gains in print speed and consistency. We have purchased two M5S, and equipped our Linant Base Pros with ACF. We saw a 50% increase in speeds on the linants along with lowering failure rates into the low single digit range. The M5S have also done great, but have a glaring flaw that many are not speaking on that also is an issue with Elegoo printers (saturn 2 for us) is a "squish" in base layers requiring you to stretch 1-2% in the Z direction. While able to accommodate around this, its a paint and leads to lower dimensional accuracy. Overall as a business that makes functional parts for production, ACF has been AMAZING. But I can concede that us doing functional prints vs photo realistic prints skews my view point, and from a "artistic" standpoint this maybe a no go. But, I would love to see you dig in to this issue with "squishing" in base layers that is affecting now multiple brands. Keep up the great work and content!
Interesting perspective, I have been considering getting a resin printer in addition to my bambulab for business purposes. Though I was not aware that you could make functional parts on resin printers. Although I did use them up to 15 years ago (commercial grade SLA) working as an Industrial Designer, most prints were used to create tooling for small production runs or prototypes. My question is, what kind of functional parts are you actually able to make with resin now?
@@dwintster we make lots of smaller parts, capacitor casings, wire organizers, speaker adapter rings and housings. The "basic" abs like resins can be a bit brittle for functional parts requirements depending, but look into a company called "3D Materials" and they have lines of affordable engineering resins, the PP and PCS lines make great resins for stuff that needs some flexibility and impact resistance. They have high heat (400f+), ceramic like, silicon like and a few others. Big things getting to know what resins go in what application.
I don't own a Resin printer yet but in my eyes I prefer sharpness and detail over speed. As for plate size I have already became accustomed to a Ender 3 print area so I would rather have the 220 x 220 x 250 mm or a tad bit larger than to go to a smaller print area. Thanks Ross for your time and work.
ACF is not only faster, but it also reduces the failure of printing significantly because it sticks much less to the FEP. Many of the 3D groups I am participating in are switching from FEP/NFEP to ACF, even on regular printers
Interesting. I've never had problems with my FEP, but I'm printing on 2k printers (about to upgrade soon). Is that such a problem for you that you're looking to make a change? Even though it compromises print quality? Is this because you do a lot of printing for commercial reasons? Genuinely curious as to what user persona that appeals to. (I hope this comes across as a respectful question... I mean it entirely respectfully.)
@@mr_disintegrator I wouldn't use it because of the hatching effect, but less peel force is objectively a good thing. It ultimately means it allows smaller supports to be used and by extension less clean up. Supports are the hardest part of resin printing, reducing the barrier to entry isn't a bad thing.
Thank you for such a great review. This is my first resin printer. I've watched a few videos to help me decide on what I wanted to buy, but ultimately, the popularity and a good sale is what determined my purchase of the Mars 4 Ultra. I just got it 3 days ago and really wish I had seen this video first. However, I think I'll like those added features. With a Wi-Fi FDM sitting beside my Mars 4 Ultra, it will be nice to keep everything in a separate area dedicated to printing. Hopefully there are non ACF options available now for this (This is my first time learning about ACF). I see this video is 9 months old so I will take a look at your channel to see if you've answered my question! Thanks again! Subscribed!
They should just include an extra resin tray that has normal FEP, and one for fast printing with the blurry stuff. Then you can store the fast resin in one, and higher quality resin in the other... Or make it an option when you buy it so people who want fast printing can get the one they want, or vice versa.
That's exactly why I buy an extra resin tank with normal FEP with my Saturn 3 Ultra. When I want to print fast with no extra detail like big base I took ACF and for the small detail I took the normal FEP. I think it is good to have a choice
I'm so glad you could finally review this unit. This prevented me from huuuuge buyers remorse. I've seen the ACF issue brought up in one of Vogman's reviews, and it was the main reason I didn't preorder this unit. The lack of a screen protector is also a deal breaker (note that the Elegoo website mentions a 9H hardness tempered glass protector included in the specs, which clearly isnt there on your unit) Keep up the good work!
thanks a Ton, yeah VOG did great by replacing the ACF and showing what it can do. I'll do the same with my Mars 4. yeah i found out about the screen protector from commentors, i never got one.
the prints with the wargamer resin look really great. but if the resin is only available in the UK, unfortunately that doesn't help the rest of the world
We love to point out all the quality short-cuts Elegoo, and it's competitors, take to push out these printers but at least the cost reflects those short-cuts. We ought to be somewhat thankful that we don't have to pay thousands for better fit and finish on a machine that would produce the same quality prints.
Yep, convenience is superior to speed or even super sharp detail. Choosing now, I would go with the anycubics m5s simply for the autoleveling and error detection
Went through the comments to see if anyone mentioned it, but you might want to reach out to Elegoo as they seem to have sent you a defective printer, it may also have been missing from early review models sent out to content creators because although Uncle Jessie mentioned it, he didn't show it, but there is meant to be a tempered glass screen protector for the lcd, from the description on their website "The mono LCD is protected by a 9H hardness tempered glass, ensuring it withstands daily wear and tear while maintaining optimal performance." a description absent from the standard mars 4, which was a huge part of why i've been looking to get this printer. If you reach out to them about the lack of screen protector, id love to hear about it, because this is very confusing to me that theres nothing between the polarizer and the vat, and that not being the description on the website. Thanks for the videos, they are always informative, just left scratching my head on this one.
I agree with your priorities of quality over speed, and I think speed is still a big area of opportunity for printers going forward. I'd even argue it's going to be the next big differentiator as resin printers evolve. Like Apple learned with their retina display research, there's an upper limit where increasing resolution no longer matters. Fighting over microns is reaching the point of diminishing returns. All that being said, once they start to focus on speed they can't lose the ground they've gained on detail. Looks like these new release sheets are doing exactly that.
This is quite true, because unless you are making microelectronic parts where you need precision delineated by the millionths, there is only so much practical use 99.9999999% of users will want or need. This is why specialty tooling is so expensive, in order to cater to that 0.0000001% of the population. Once we reach the point where resolution lines are invisible to the naked eye, or after a model has been primed and painted, then thats where this race should end.
I've never had the build plate loosen on my Mars 2 Pro, but that doesn't mean you're 'wrong' about the 4-screw system the higher-end units use either. I do LOVE they added the spring-loaded system in the Mars 4 though - that's a great upgrade. THANK YOU for this video! I've been passing up upgrading till now because my M2P still gives me such amazing prints, but the new units with their super-high rez and massive build areas are finally weakening my resolve. This was amazingly helpful - Liked and Subscribed! :D
Oh that;s sich a perfect point. yeah the Mars 2 is still solid even now!, in fact I'm about to drop a review of a 2k printer about that size and you know what. prints are fine.
I picked up the mars 4 ultra, but I already knew I’d have to swap to pfa and I’m cool with that, if you print enough, you know how often you have to replace the fep anyway so it’s not terrible to have a speedy option for parts that don’t require the hi res.
I have an old Anycubic Mono still using its original FEP film after going through over 7 1000ml bottles of resin (or about 100 print jobs in my case). Applying PTFE dry lube to the FEP film every time you go through a bottle of resin significantly increases the lifespan of the film. I've since recently upgraded to the Anycubic Mono 2 and Anycubic M5s and expect those films to last quite a while too.
@@agentcee688 I use ptfe lube too, but after a dozen prints the film starts to look like shit with splotches and whatnot that translates into the prints so as soon as I see deformation from the fep I swap em out though I suppose it could last much longer.
@@esurfrider7687 I guess for what I print the condition of the FEP film isn't that important, it still prints with the quality I want. As long as it still works, that's all that matters, which in my case is a LONG time.
As a jeweler, I can see the benefit of speed in order to show prototypes to clients prior to manufacturing. Having two trays with both films with be an ideal situation... Heck, having 2 printers, 1 for each tray would be even better :)
I have a Phrozen Sonic Mighty 8k, which does amazing detail, I don't care about how long it takes to print because I always start my prints at night or when I go to work, most prints are finished by the time I get up or return from work, quality is what I want.
You can just replace the film with a normal FEP and problem solved. The ultra version actually should get you higher quality resoults once you do that because it has a frensel lens unlike the regular mars 4.
@@FauxHammer Its also the best point of comparison we have of how it affects prints. Saturn 8k and saturn 2 also had a different light source so not all difference in quality is necessarily from the lens.
@@magikarp2063 yeah now that I know this is there, I’m actually concerned the Mars 4 may read as worse than the Mini8k with softer edges. It wasn’t a huge deal on the sat 2 bs 8k comparison I did, but it was there.
Just ordered 2kg of the Wargamer resin - as while I love using Phrozen 8k resin - its far to brittle for everyday use of miniatures, - so really looking forward to testing this wargamer resin
I really liked your review on the Photon Mono X 6ks, it was way more informative than AC's provided material or videos. That one brought me to your channel and I really appriciate your honest and realistic reviews as I keep watching. You are spot on about Bambu's success, it really wasn't until my P1P that I could enjoy learning modeling and other aspects of tinkering more and not spending so much energy keeping my bed slinger alive. I don't really care about the speeds, the quality and also the follow up from Bambu in makeing their stuff better keeps me loyal to them... for now. Thanks for the vids, cheers.
Yeah that exactly what we wanted to put out there but also sharper that most abs like. Not in the EU yet, but we are trying. Only way to do it would be to import from Uk and prices would be insane
@@FauxHammer looking forward to it. I am in a weird situation when I will live in UK for next 8 months, but my 3d printer is back in EU and sadly resin is not exactly something that one can take with them on the plane ;).
The comment about Bambu Labs FDM printers being about convenience is so on-point. Much like the AnkerMake FDM printer being for convenience to the casual home user (no slicer needed, just print from the app), so the Bambu Labs printers are aimed at people who want to unpack the printer, plug it in and have it print perfect (multi-material) prints without any tedious configuration or trial-and-error. On the other end of the scale you got the people who build their own Voron FDM printers and spend more time tweaking and tinkering the printer than actually printing with it. I'd say that most people who buy a 3D printer just want it to bloody well work, and not turn into another project just to get it to print half-way decent. That the Bambu Labs printers are fast is nice, but don't forget the ~10 minute self-test and calibration before they even begin to print. This all so that you get the guarantee of a successful print rather than a pile of spaghetti or a failed first layer. That they're also fast CoreXY printers is secondary in that regard.
@@MayaPosch oh I already love it and I know why I love it. I’ll do some previously I tested stuff. But honestly, what can I say now that has my already been said…. I’m just glad I’m getting the printer.
I have a Phrozen Mighty 8k and while I do print really amazing prints I would have to say for people wanting to print way bigger pieces with models that can take up several build plate space, Speed is indeed a factor. Reducing time by as much as 50% on a 9 hour print means I can finish models in one day instead of two. Maybe for minatures speed really isnt an issue because they dont use up as much time and space but for bigger prints not only does speed matter but also reducing the amount of failures which are less common in small minutures.
Print quality. Every time. The makers got something confused... we wanted print speed AS LONG AS we didn't give up quality. I suppose the guys doing mass printing (Etsy folks?) have a different criteria, but for people like me who want to make their own models for gaming and painting, it's quality we're looking for. I really appreciate your reviews, but I have a question - CAN WE REMOVE THE ACF FILM FOR FEP? If so, what does that do to the printer settings? Can the slicer handle it? Does the printer pre-configs get all messed up? MANY MANY THANKS!
Just bought this printer as a complement to my Sonic Mini-8K, but mostly for printing castable resins for metal casting. Will be replacing the ACF with nFEP film before I print a single print! Buying it for the 9K/18µ pixel size because I want the best most detailed metal prints I can get. FYI... Maybe the printer you reviewed in this video, but all the advertising/product descriptions that I've seen show that this printer has a tempered glass screen protector over the LCD.
How has the Mars 4 ultra for cast worked for you? I just ordered it to start with 3D jewelry castings, but I have doubts about whether it is the best option in terms of printing quality.
Industrial resin printers benefit from ACF-style film because of the lower pull forces needed to release. Speed can be one benefit, but the most important is that with lower pull forces, you can use less or thinner supports, you can successfully print unsupported overhangs at shallower angles and you get less distortion of the model during printing. unless you are in a super high-detail business like jewelry for example, that "texture" that ACF brings is not a bad thing and it contributes to a more consistent surface look and sheen around the part, eliminating that mirror smooth surface on the top of the prints when printed using FEP.
I think the reason behind this is that small business do care about print speed since even if they do have idle times with their printers.. they do work based on batched and orders.. and when they happen they have a deadline. imagine having a big order and being unable to fulfill the order because it's impossible to match a quota based on the printer speed unless you have to buy a new printer. And small business that can do this.. will buy more than one printer for their farms so.. it's a pretty important business as well besides hobbyists..
I get that, but I'd be more worried when that business hands out those fast printedcmodels and the client balks at the quality suddenly being far worse than what they had before.
Great video but can you please please PLEASE do a video of this elegoo mars 4 ultra with the ACF films first then swap it out for FEP and do a side by side comparison. EVERYONE is dying to see this test, and the amount of times you've said ACF makes the prints worse it's time to show the real life results of this variation. Not in a mars 4 the same printer the ultra that's what we want to see.
That’s the plan. When I get these printers. I’m here to review the printers I get. When I get a normal Mars 4, I’ll print with that, then use the Mars 4 vat on the ultra so I don’t waste an ACF film now.
@@FauxHammer ok but technically if you are careful can't you remove it and re-install it later?? (no experience with resin printers, looking now to buy one)
You got it right. Quality is why I'm looking at rising. But like the DLP as the screen replacement concerns me as I've watched videos about how things go wrong. Thanks for your heads up on this one.😮😊😊😊😊
Interesting. This is the first I'd heard of the ACF films, but I too am more interested in quality over speed. I'm not trying to print in bulk quantity for commercial purposes..
I like the option of the new film, as i actually got some for my larger printer to have it run my terrain and will do small miniatures on the classic films in my smaller printers for precision. Its a great option, i just wish it was more clear to the customer what its good for.
I recently bought a Saturn 8K and I have been very pleased with the print quality over my old Mars 2PRO. (Nevermind the much larger build plate) I can't see me replacing the Saturn anytime soon.
I still haven't had chance to start using the saturn 2 I got late last year. I've kept wondering about an upgrade to this generation, but honestly I don't really think it feels like there's enough of a difference right now for me
Maybe instead of chasing speed, how about they chase peel force! Peel force is the reason why you can't print technically accurate parts. A cylinder printed at a 45 degree angle is going to loose accuracy in the diameter and squareness because of the peel forces stretching and pulling on the part. Formlabs have a great solution but unfortunately can't be used with LCD printers. Having a tilting vat & screen would be a step up but that would increase costs. There is one LCD printer that has a tilting vat but can't remember the model.
ACF work best for large model because you can use lesser support, less support mean less bumpy surface and easier for post processing, sure you will sacrifice some micro detail, but what is the point of having sharper detail if you'll have to sand it later to smooth support's marks. Also multipart model can fit easier due to less distortion/warp.
So basically, from a miniature wargaming perspective, this means it is the best option to print all of your terrain in resin. Especially since most terrain lack large swathes of smooth surfaces. Which when viewed in that light, is not a bad thing at all. This just needs to be effectively marketed for such projects, instead of allowing users to assume they are getting the best resolution on this screen than any other printer, when the OEM ACF is getting in the way of that. Thus, it's only drawback, is Elegoo's lack of effective communication of that quality to consumers. This very well may be one of the resin printers where you would really want two separate resin tanks. One with ACF, and one with FEP, to get the best of both worlds for just the cost of merely one additional tank, rather than the cost of an additional printer... Perhaps this may yet turn out to be a hot ticket item afterall.
ACF is here to stay or something better then FEP. I went with speed over quality with my mage pro for model railway stuff in 1/87 scale. The loss of quality is not thay much to bother about, I know people that are happy with FDM printer quality. There is a market for both speed and quality printers.
I agree with you entirely. I think it's the marketing of these printers I have issue with. They all say, no quality loss with PFa and faster speeds That's a lie
the nice thing about the ultra it comes with wifi, frensel lens (i hope it doesn't yellow as it's plastic) and better build mechanism, it would be better to give PFA film and double rails than ACF film..they are kinda shooting themselves in the foot here
@@St0RM33 I’ve got a Saturn 3 resin tank with PFA arriving soon and will try printing out some minis to see how much sharper it is compared to the ACF that came with the ultra
Would the reduced sucky force of acf film mean the ability to reduce supports/support contact size? The biggest downfall of resin printers detail is support damage
Own a Mars 4 Ultra, purchased a Mars 4 Tank for it (same size/shape, just FEP instead of ACF) and the prints are visibly better. No going back for me now.
Since I changed my M5S to standard FEP, I am not going back to the ACF. I would love to give Wargamer a try, but cannot find it stateside, and it seems a bit pricey compared to my SirayaTech Simple go to.
Thanks, great yo hear from people like you who have done this rather than people who just comment against this point and have never tried. Yeah it is expensive, sorry. But we feel it’s the best balance out there for miniatures and it’s easy to use with it being water washable
Hi, do you mind solving some doubts? I'm new into 3D printing and I've pre-ordered the M5s. I'm a bit concerned since there are multiple videos praising it's printing quality, but I've also found the videos and analysis from FauxHammer in which says that the printing quality is not as good as the Phrozen Mini 8k, for example. I want to print wargaming miniatures and bits to do conversions and maybe some more bigger models or terrain. I've found that you are one of the few people that has changed the ACF for the FEP, and I was wondering if it really makes a difference in quality, or should I think about swapping to another printer with smaller printing area but smaller pixel size. Thanks a lot!
@@munias17 the printer is great, but I am not a fan of the ACF film and I changed my FEP out. If you are printing miniature armies, you will want a medium format build plate ( M5, M5S, Saturn, Mighty 8k, etc). You can get more on the plate. If you are doing one off models, I would recommend going with the Elegoo Mars line (not the Ultra due to ACF film) or Mini 8ks for your first printer. The Mars 4 series has the smallest pixels at this time and Fauxhammer just put out a review. If you got the entry price on the M5S I would stick with it. You can always change the film if the ACF doesn't work for you. That is what I did. I highly recommend Siraya tech Simple water washable to start. It is an easy resin to deal with and has a good price point with great results. The is also a great Reddit community building up for the M5S at r/AnyCubicPhotonMonoM5s.
Thankbyoubfor this review it has given me some insight. Also, in your video, where did you find those underwater themed deathguard? Never mind had to read description a second time.
Quality over speed is the whole point of 3D printing in general for me. The only reason I'd do more resin prints is for detail. Otherwise, I'll use FDM. Quality over speed is key there, too. I've been keeping an eye on the Neptune line, hoping we'd get to sub-50 micron detail, but nooo, speed is the New Thing. Chasing speed is an active quest in the wrong direction, and it's soured me on the Neptunes.
You can print at sub 50 on the Neptune's. I've done 40 micron on my Neptune. But its not resin quality because you still have extruded plastic and the edge of each layer will always be slightly beveled.
Resin prints with rando ABS like resins gets stronger prints for functional parts than FDM hands down. Its the needless slowness of the prints that hampers resin printers from taking over and making FDM obsolete. Quality in functional parts uses case doesn't mean micron resolution
Have you thought about doing a video on the Features you'd like to see in a 3D printer and what would be your perfect 3D printer? (with in reason of course) Would be cool to hear your complete thoughts on this subject.
Looking at getting this and replacing the ACF with nFEP. Not as fast as ACF, yet faster than FEP. Build quality between FEP and nFEP on my Orange 4K were basically identical.
great review. the main comment I would have is when you had the test comparisons on the screen, the Ultra (right side) was actually slightly out of focus. so yeah it looks blurrier. :D
I'm quite active on the reddit resin printing page, and #1 cause of fails by noobs by a country mile is racing their printer 200% faster than it was ever meant to go. I've no tangible proof where they're getting these settings (I have my suspicions; thankfully it's not here or anyone else I'm subbed to), but even on the smallest print bed, 380mm/min lift and retract is going to rip your print to shreds if not send their printer to an early grave. I've had hordes of people jump down my throat because 'so and so on youtube said ----', and when I say the total opposite, I'm wrong naturally, despite having no financial incentive in their success ratio other than trying to get them better prints so the hobby spreads. Damned if you do kind of thing, but I'm sure you know _that_ story too. End note, I tell people to slow down their printer and avoid quick, jerky movements. The ones that listen always come back to thank me; a nice gesture nonetheless but at least some want to succeed at this. I'm not entirely sold on the whole two stage control bit either. Another 'in the name of speed' idea, which I suppose could work if set correctly, but that's not the way I've seen the vast majority of settings being run. A failure is always more expensive in materials and detriment of the hardware than an extra hour or 90 minutes of print time, especially when it was an avoidable failure that ruins your machine. (Lots of supports popping holes in vat films there, too, as of late).
Well, based on what you just said, I'm 100% on your side. There is far too much BS AROUND 3D printing that makes it harder for people. That's why I made my “how to lrintvminiatures” video. I'm yet to find the person that followed that guide and hasn't started getting successful prints.
@@FauxHammer I'll give that a watch and might be referencing it in the near future! I picked up a GKTwo this week, and man it's a sweet printer. I've had others naturally, but was just blown away at how good it was out of the box. I couldn't believe how easy it was to get a great print with a few adaptations from my old profile on a 4k printer. Like "is this how easy it is now, or is it just That good?!" I did the profile before I had the machine, and it needs a tweak to _lower_ the exposure after a Very good full plate print a (did an exposure test first of course) but it came out so great, I immediately had confidence to just resume converting previous files and get back to my backlog! It was already at 1 second normal layers, which my old printers liked but were on the softish side; easy support removal. This at one second, they came out like iron! Just total wow, and very worth the purchase! Might have to convert the whole fleet in time!!
HI! I assume that the tray of mars 4 and mars 4 are exactly the same, isnit?, except for the film. For 29€, I think im going to buy mars 4 ultra and the tray of mars 4. Great video! You have to consider to sell your resin in spain also.
The screen is a consumable item. You’re going to have to replace it eventually. I popped a tiny hole in mine almost right away. I wish I would have watched this video before I bought FEP screens.
"the higher price printer doesn't deliver better results than the direct counterpart" Its this way for every Mars since the original though? The "Pro" (and now the Ultra) models has always been just a few more premium upgrades from their cheaper counterparts, with no difference in their actual printing specifications.
The reason z=0 is not automated is because it is not part of the plate leveling function. It is an independent system that is not for setting the home position - but for offsetting the start position to account for other variables. So you never hit that button when the plate is at the home position, that would be pointless (unless someone has already offset the position and you wish to return it to home).
@@FauxHammer zero is home by default. So unless you have moved the z offset that part is not necessary. That's why it is not together, or automated, which was your question. You don't need to do that at all (unless you have moved it off home). But the idea is that you should move it off home, that's what it is for after all. But that has nothing to do with plate leveling. That is 'z calibration' - where you print a low fine object of known height and then measure the result, then adjust the z=0 to correct the error. You hear people using different sheets of paper when they level the plate - that's just dumb. That's what z=0 is there for. So basically if you are not using it correctly, then you should only press that button once in the lifetime of the printer.
I wish maunfactuers wouldn't focus so much on speed, what I would like to see on all printers is heated resin tanks, would add so much convenience and save money on external heating, enclosures, etc. They do it with print beds in FDM printers as standard, why not resin too?
Thank you for sharing the info. I have a doubt about 11:13 > is the comparison inverted ? I see Mars 4 Ultra is sharper than GKTWO. I have to say I partially disagree with your statement about nobody wants the speed if it lowers the quality. Because printing geometrical/mechanical parts (where appearance is still important enough to make FDM non applicable) does not require so many details as for figurine and the win of time is really appreciated. For instance I print weapon replica and a slide, a trigger, a housing are really good even with 0.1 layer and with lifting high speed. So ACF is really welcome in this case. Maybe it is not the goal for a small volume printer but for larger ones I think both FEP and ACF usage are relevant. It just depends of the need.
Yeah I was probably too harsh on this. But when I say “nobody” I meant 99% of the community. Which seems to have been echoed by many people, loud and clear. My lint it more, what is the point such high resolution then yoh diminish it, it makes the 9k pointless when a 4k would do the exact same thing. But if it did t say 9k, nobody would by it either because they think its lesser It’s marketing BS
I was turned off by the ACF due to the low detail I was seeing from people posting pics of their prints in the M5s facebook group, to the point that I just went for the 8K Uniformity instead. Much more expensive, but since FH puts it at the top of his list for printing minies, that's what I went with. Is it also at the top of your list when it comes to details? Because quality of life aside, in the end details are what matter no?
For me the advantage is just easier releasing meaning fewer supports and (hopefully) cleaner prints but as you say if it's at the cost of detail its sorta pointless.
That is a shame these ship with the cloudy FEP. At least it can be replaced but still a nuisance. I agree with quality over speed 100%. I would love to try the Wargamer resin but live in the US. I just picked up a Saturn 2 8k printer and was thinking about sticking to the phrozen 4k resin that I use in the Mars Pro 3. I am nervous about the 8k being too brittle based on your review and others. Whats your take on this for printing minis? 4k resin in an 8k printer?
Well 4k and 8k on resins are just marketing terms. It's just means higher detail, but normally at the cost of rigidity. Elegoo 8k space grey is a tad more flexible. Some people mix in so sirayatech tenacious with their 8k to toughen it up. I like anycubiv FLp craftsman's for it's sharpnes and strength. And some and resins are fairly decent, just not that sharp. Phrozen 4k is nice. In fact ours is kinda like phrozen 4k resin. But is also water washable. Which is probably why it costing us more
Great video! I would love to see a video changing the fep and comparing with its little sister and big brothers before black friday :) This would help me make up my mind as having a different lens might make the results unsatisfactory. What do you think?
I'll probably do an announcement video in the future to drum up more interest and understanding. But in sending it to other creators for their reviews. I can't really require something I have this much if a personal stake in and be objective.
@@FauxHammerUh, reliable peeling has been at the core of these resin printers since the start. The less force that's used on the peel, the less force is exerted on the model and things like supports, etc. Don't you remember back in the late 2000s they used to use siloxane coated reservoirs for the release?
Thank you for your video's on Resin Printing. I've been looking into 3d printing for a very long time. I am currently building a Voron 2.4 because I decided to start with a MDF printer since I wanted an all purpose printer to start with. However, at the time I was shopping most decent Resin Printers were still in the $600 to $800 range. I've since discovered the Elegoo Mars 4 Max and that range of printers, which, for a beginner in resin printing, are very reasonably priced. Thank you for your reviews on those and thank you for your notes on ACF with this video. It has made my decision about which one of the Elegoo printers to go for much easier. All of that said, I noticed right away that you pour your resin into the resin tank by pouring it over the top of the build plate and letting it run off into the tank. Is there a particular reason you add resin this way? It looks to me like it would pose a number of potential problems and I'm trying to understand why so that I can do things right from the beginning.
Interested to see how this stacks up against a Mars 3 or something similar. I understand that the ACF means the 4 sacrifices a bit of quality for speed, but if that reduction means that it is still producing excellent quality prints (hopefully better than the 3) just faster then I'm all for it? There's a limit on how much detail you can actually see once a mini is primed and painted, and I'm not sold on the idea that exposure tests reflect that.
As with Saturn 3, looks like the non ultra version is the one to get. It's unfortunate though that the non ultra versions still come with the ball joint system build plate. Like you, I much prefer the 4 screw system. That's my main complaint with my own Saturn 2. That and the fans that continue to run after the print is done.
@@netnoob77 Idk, because they do not think like they should from our perspective:)? There are x% of people that do not watch yt, just buying in rush probably.
So I'm currently in the market for my first SLA printer (had FDM printers for over 6 years now). My use case is minis but also larger things like train tracks for my childs duplo train or new parts for my childs marble track. That's why I think the, at least now, pretty common size of roughly 200x200x123 mm would be perfect for me (of course if it's a little larger that's also fine). I'd also like the printer to be as hassle free as possible. The Phrozen Sonic Mighty 8k is a little too expensive for my taste so right now I'm looking at the M5, M5s, Saturn 3 and Saturn 3 Ultra. Would you say that that's the correct models to look at or am I missing one that I shouldn't miss? And which one would you recommend? Hope this question is not too loaded! Thanks for your amazing videos, I only discovered your channel a few days ago and your videos are really top notch!
mines still in its box.. just dunno if i should open it and use. i won it in competition.. but need a spare room and ventilation etc.. hhmm just dunno if i can get this setup
Sorry, I was trying to say “I’m not going to talk about (the usual crap I say in videos)” but looking back I can see how this seems like I’m suggesting it has dual linear rails
@@FauxHammer Love your work - just thought I was missing something. I am in the market, so I am paying extra attention. I had preordered the Anycubic M5s, but cancelled. Just do not know what to do.
I use acf film for when I need to print and iterate on a model. Once I get something final I just print with nfep. so for me it works perfect. I have a photon m5s and its been printing great right out of the box.
Interesting video! i got a saturn 3 12k and the "fep" was cloudy and i wasnt getting the expected results. after changing to actual fep (i thought theyd left a protective layer on in factory by accident) im actually getting fantastic results now! at the time i wasnt aware of acf but yeah im sticking to proper fep sheets for now for sure! NGL im curious how much better your new resin is for minis than sunlu standard grey may pick some up soon to compare!
Thanks for sharing. I live comments like that that validate and groove the point I was making, rather than just complain at me about it. Glad you got the result you wanted and it is an easy change
Do you know if that Mars 4 Ultra build plate fits on other Mars 4 printers? I was curious if you could buy that part and just pop it on the regular Mars 4 or DLP. I much prefer the 4 bolt design.
Whilst I can understand wanting to review exactly what you are given, I do feel by not testing the pfa on the ultra you are leaving the review a little incomplete. From what I can see the standard vs ultra video you've mentioned won't be a direct pfa vs acf comparison as the ultra has a fresnal lens and the standard does not. It might only be a tiny difference but surely it's worth exploring how much of a impact that fresnal lens will give?
Yeah I'll do that test too. I'll show what the mars 4 does in comparison to the Msr 4 ultra bad spend more time on the ultra with PFa instead of act. But I don't have I finite time and resources. I could change the act for pfa now. But them in wasting a merge toy good sheet of act. Or I could wait for my mars 4 and just use that vat in this In the mean time ill get on with reviewing the bother 7 printers I have sat here then the 5 more I have in the way. Between that I have work and a family. I understand you want to see that comparison and I fully Intend on doing it. I want yo see what it does too. But I only have so much time. I'm sorry.
@@FauxHammerabsolutely no need to apologise! I've got a small business in the mini painting hobby myself alongside an erratic full time job. It's more then fair that you'd rather wait to do the comparison to ensure more efficient use of your time :)
try replacing the ACF with FEP or PFA not as a review but as a test of the new HIGHEST RES. print possibility. how do these tiny pixels compare to the m5, m5s, Saturn 4, etc, phrozen, etc.
I personally LOVE Elegoo's water-washable resin so... maybe I'll give you a try! Re: ACF - why not just replace it with a FEP right out of the box? I use 'Vroom' retraction settings on my M2P (with water-soluble!) and get amazing results. 100% agree I do NOT want detail loss for increased speed!!!
Of course resolution is a top need for your audience seeing the audience that needs stronger than FDM print at high speeds for functional parts and prototyping has been ignored. I'm thinking if resin printers started off fast and accurate being able to print stronger than FDM prints with ABS like resin and high precision then resolution would be less of a priority. The fast, strong, precise space is being under indexed by resin printer corps who focus on micron / less than human hair level details.
Well, the good thing is that the acf film liners can be replaced... Bet everyone will replace it Also.. I think that this was already asked.. but I always wonder why do you put your resin into the vat like that... It never spilled? Even a drop?
@@TheBelrickYeah I can imagine having a farm of printers and having a order coming up with a specific deadline then speed would be necessary for example..
Up here in Canada the Mars 4 Ultra is about $180 more than the Mars 4 9K. If we ignore the high speed capabilities of the Ultra, is there still any reason to spend the extra money on it?
Ok.....I'm new to 3D printing Resin or filament. So my question is what resolution do I aim for? The higher number or lower? Does the higher number mean more pixels and a more flawless print or does the lower number mean that. I'm looking at the Anycubic M5s. I watched your video on it and though you didn't think it did any better than the M5 it had better features for a noob like me. I also am looking at the unifirmation gk2. However it's double the price and being new to this i dont want to spend alot of money. Any advice would be appreciated. I really like your videos. They are in depth and informative
The higher the number the more detail that pops out in theory, especially on smaller prints. It depends what you are trying to do, But the M5S is a perfectly good beginner machine. Only buy more expensive when you know exactly why you are doing so.
Higher resolution numbers mean more detail (except there's more to it than that ofc...) So 8k is (potentially) better than 4k for instance. Being new to it, you should bear in mind a couple of things, some of which review channels rarely mention: Is it a really popular printer? (you want to get a really popular printer to help with any trouble shooting as lots of people will own one and have solved issues before you come across them) Are parts for it (new fep sheets, LCD, replacement resin vat, power supply, touch screen) easily available? Where will your printer live? If it's in a workshop or garage, you probably don't need to worry too much about the fumes from the resin, but if it's in your home then is it possible for you to get a printer with some sort of air filter built in? How warm is the environment that it will live be? (You would ideally keep the resin at around 22-27 degrees C) Where is the power button and usb port located? On some printers the usb port is on the side, which is a mild pain, the power button can often be on the back, which is also a pain (it sounds like no big deal, but you'd be surprised how annoying it can be while you're regularly using it). Does it have wifi (which *actually* works, because quite a few of them in the past have had it, but it didn't actually work or wasn't reliable). Finally, does it have anti aliasing? (Most newer printers do) So consider those points, but don't stress too much. Once you get the hang of using one, the only things you'll really regret are if you buy one that has a print bed that's smaller than you'd ideally like and whether it's easy to find information about it to help with troubleshooting issues, as well as is it easy to get replacement parts for. 4k Is probably fine for most applications, 8k is nice... 12k is honestly more than 99% need (and you won't be able to tell any difference by eye between that and 8k anyway), a Fresnel lens would be nice, but it's not worth agonizing over, you'll be able to print great stuff with a regular lens. Heads up: You'll make mistakes learning to use it, everyone does, you'll spill some uncured resin at some point, everyone does, but you'll be chuffed to bits when you have your first successful print, everyone is! :D
Higher resolution is more detail, but what the community has come to compare is the pixel size. The smaller the pixels, the higher the detail. If you are new, chekxnout my article in best 3d printer for miniatures. Link in video description. And this puts my preferences forball these printers in order.
Thank you for the review. i think i will order the 4k Ultra and replace the ACF. i canceld my M5S order although i made the order very cheap (374€), but the M5S is too big for me and i was worried about extra costs when i have to replace the display or so.
Good call, it's a solid unit. Though why not a Saturn I stead of m5? I don't know what you print but yi me, that larger build area is so much more useful. Even than quality in most cases.
@@FauxHammer still unsure after watching lot of printer reviews. I don't need big build area since i just print small tabletop figures and no full units or so. i am affraid of higher costs for repairing and other extras if i choose a big printer. Did you get your Mars 4? i would love to see the comparison and the print with the Mars 4 Ultra with PFA. The new video about the Saturn 3 Ultra was confusing :D
Have you come to any conclusions, or closer to any on why the different between the new Saturn with ACF and this Mars 4 Ultra with ACF? Mine gets here tomorrow, and in part wondering if I should get ready to order a more clear film for it.
i def want print quality! and i HATE when printers have those fep sheets with plastic around them and you cant just unscrew it you have to buy the expensive packs of them which are just stupid. i can replace it myself..its barely less hassle and way more money for those things. also dislike the ball joint thing, ive had both my elegoos become loose when trying to level it..annyoing
Fauxhammer, I love your reviews, all the 3d product purchases I have made where inspired by your reviews, I am looking forward to your hopeful review of the elegoo saturn 3 ultra, I guess they've also been watching your reviews and have made some changes especially to the ball socket 😅, I would like to purchase one but would want to hear your thoughts on it before I make a hopeful purchase. Can you pls find out whether this 3d printer the elegoo has a Print Resume feature in the case of a power outage. The anycubic printers I use have this feature and I absolutely love them for it, I am in Africa and unexpected power outages are a bit of the norm, will love to watch a video on whether all 3d printers (SLA) have this feature, because frankly anything can happen I am looking forward to your reviews and response to this lengthy text. Thank you in advance faux hammer. Lastly anycubic have completely stopped their production of the m3 premium, my all time favourite printer 😢 I don't know why, but I can't seem to get it any where not even in china 😢 I guess the build and performance quality was too good to continue production, I frankly think it much better than thier m5s
My actual priority is RELIABILITY THEN QUALITY THEN SPEED... I have plenty of time for "turn it on and go to work" or "turn it on and go to sleep" i don't have time for "wake up to a failed print" If i can give up 2 to 3 percent surface finish for a printer that NEVER FUCKS UP EVER i am down for that exchange...
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man i hope it's a good review and you compare against sonic 8k s..
Where can I find the J3D Tech video link?
Hey Ross, can you please answer the question that bugs me since the release of Saturn 3 - does Elegoo's new build plates fit their previous models?) Specifically - the new Saturn 3 plate on Saturn 2
I have a different take on ACF from a business standpoint. I will (and do) sacrifice a SMALL amount of detail for mass gains in print speed and consistency. We have purchased two M5S, and equipped our Linant Base Pros with ACF. We saw a 50% increase in speeds on the linants along with lowering failure rates into the low single digit range. The M5S have also done great, but have a glaring flaw that many are not speaking on that also is an issue with Elegoo printers (saturn 2 for us) is a "squish" in base layers requiring you to stretch 1-2% in the Z direction. While able to accommodate around this, its a paint and leads to lower dimensional accuracy.
Overall as a business that makes functional parts for production, ACF has been AMAZING. But I can concede that us doing functional prints vs photo realistic prints skews my view point, and from a "artistic" standpoint this maybe a no go. But, I would love to see you dig in to this issue with "squishing" in base layers that is affecting now multiple brands. Keep up the great work and content!
Interesting perspective, I have been considering getting a resin printer in addition to my bambulab for business purposes. Though I was not aware that you could make functional parts on resin printers. Although I did use them up to 15 years ago (commercial grade SLA) working as an Industrial Designer, most prints were used to create tooling for small production runs or prototypes. My question is, what kind of functional parts are you actually able to make with resin now?
@@dwintster we make lots of smaller parts, capacitor casings, wire organizers, speaker adapter rings and housings. The "basic" abs like resins can be a bit brittle for functional parts requirements depending, but look into a company called "3D Materials" and they have lines of affordable engineering resins, the PP and PCS lines make great resins for stuff that needs some flexibility and impact resistance. They have high heat (400f+), ceramic like, silicon like and a few others.
Big things getting to know what resins go in what application.
@tyoung319 That's great , it has really progressed a lot. Thanks a lot for the info. I will check them out.
I don't own a Resin printer yet but in my eyes I prefer sharpness and detail over speed. As for plate size I have already became accustomed to a Ender 3 print area so I would rather have the 220 x 220 x 250 mm or a tad bit larger than to go to a smaller print area. Thanks Ross for your time and work.
Yeah I admit, it is hard for me to go back to these small units now
ACF is not only faster, but it also reduces the failure of printing significantly because it sticks much less to the FEP. Many of the 3D groups I am participating in are switching from FEP/NFEP to ACF, even on regular printers
Interesting. I've never had problems with my FEP, but I'm printing on 2k printers (about to upgrade soon). Is that such a problem for you that you're looking to make a change? Even though it compromises print quality? Is this because you do a lot of printing for commercial reasons? Genuinely curious as to what user persona that appeals to. (I hope this comes across as a respectful question... I mean it entirely respectfully.)
Ugh. So ACF is for newbs that can't be bothered to choose correct settings and adjust prints so they don't have excessive cross-sections (suction)?
@@mr_disintegrator i heard this many times also when comparing ABS to PLA , i absolutely disagree with you
@@user-it7kg3pm4q also the lifting speed can be 3X and have no failure, people are having good reviews about ACF
@@mr_disintegrator I wouldn't use it because of the hatching effect, but less peel force is objectively a good thing. It ultimately means it allows smaller supports to be used and by extension less clean up.
Supports are the hardest part of resin printing, reducing the barrier to entry isn't a bad thing.
Thank you for such a great review. This is my first resin printer. I've watched a few videos to help me decide on what I wanted to buy, but ultimately, the popularity and a good sale is what determined my purchase of the Mars 4 Ultra. I just got it 3 days ago and really wish I had seen this video first. However, I think I'll like those added features. With a Wi-Fi FDM sitting beside my Mars 4 Ultra, it will be nice to keep everything in a separate area dedicated to printing.
Hopefully there are non ACF options available now for this (This is my first time learning about ACF). I see this video is 9 months old so I will take a look at your channel to see if you've answered my question!
Thanks again! Subscribed!
They should just include an extra resin tray that has normal FEP, and one for fast printing with the blurry stuff. Then you can store the fast resin in one, and higher quality resin in the other... Or make it an option when you buy it so people who want fast printing can get the one they want, or vice versa.
Yeah I agree, probe ly not a whole tray because that would up the price quite a bit, but at least a choice of PFA in the box
That sounds too logical.
That's exactly why I buy an extra resin tank with normal FEP with my Saturn 3 Ultra. When I want to print fast with no extra detail like big base I took ACF and for the small detail I took the normal FEP. I think it is good to have a choice
@@miklay1527 Very Smart Decision!
What settings do you change and how much, when you switch from
ACF to PFA?
Excellent video Ross! My ideal printer is the Wifi and 4 Screws Leveling System from the Ultras - but installed with NFEP films.
Yes! Thats what I think I will be doing also.
Yep. I’m 100% with you on that.
I'm so glad you could finally review this unit. This prevented me from huuuuge buyers remorse.
I've seen the ACF issue brought up in one of Vogman's reviews, and it was the main reason I didn't preorder this unit.
The lack of a screen protector is also a deal breaker (note that the Elegoo website mentions a 9H hardness tempered glass protector included in the specs, which clearly isnt there on your unit)
Keep up the good work!
thanks a Ton, yeah VOG did great by replacing the ACF and showing what it can do. I'll do the same with my Mars 4.
yeah i found out about the screen protector from commentors, i never got one.
the prints with the wargamer resin look really great. but if the resin is only available in the UK, unfortunately that doesn't help the rest of the world
We’ll bring it out to more territories ASAP
At £50 (63.53 USD) per kg it doesn't really help the UK.
@@MrSlabberdank ouch. :D
😅
FIFTY QUID A BOTTLE
I just went, I might try that… even though I have 4 bottles sat next to my printer… but damn, £50. How good IS it? Has anyone here tried?
Great review.
Thanks for the warning about the ACF.
We love to point out all the quality short-cuts Elegoo, and it's competitors, take to push out these printers but at least the cost reflects those short-cuts. We ought to be somewhat thankful that we don't have to pay thousands for better fit and finish on a machine that would produce the same quality prints.
You would thing you would like a high quality build that lasts longer but let's face it, we can't help but upgrade after a couple years.
Yeah, they are killing it in the market by being very efficient with their costs
Yep, convenience is superior to speed or even super sharp detail. Choosing now, I would go with the anycubics m5s simply for the autoleveling and error detection
Went through the comments to see if anyone mentioned it, but you might want to reach out to Elegoo as they seem to have sent you a defective printer, it may also have been missing from early review models sent out to content creators because although Uncle Jessie mentioned it, he didn't show it, but there is meant to be a tempered glass screen protector for the lcd, from the description on their website "The mono LCD is protected by a 9H hardness tempered glass, ensuring it withstands daily wear and tear while maintaining optimal performance." a description absent from the standard mars 4, which was a huge part of why i've been looking to get this printer. If you reach out to them about the lack of screen protector, id love to hear about it, because this is very confusing to me that theres nothing between the polarizer and the vat, and that not being the description on the website. Thanks for the videos, they are always informative, just left scratching my head on this one.
I agree with your priorities of quality over speed, and I think speed is still a big area of opportunity for printers going forward. I'd even argue it's going to be the next big differentiator as resin printers evolve. Like Apple learned with their retina display research, there's an upper limit where increasing resolution no longer matters. Fighting over microns is reaching the point of diminishing returns.
All that being said, once they start to focus on speed they can't lose the ground they've gained on detail. Looks like these new release sheets are doing exactly that.
This is quite true, because unless you are making microelectronic parts where you need precision delineated by the millionths, there is only so much practical use 99.9999999% of users will want or need. This is why specialty tooling is so expensive, in order to cater to that 0.0000001% of the population.
Once we reach the point where resolution lines are invisible to the naked eye, or after a model has been primed and painted, then thats where this race should end.
I've never had the build plate loosen on my Mars 2 Pro, but that doesn't mean you're 'wrong' about the 4-screw system the higher-end units use either. I do LOVE they added the spring-loaded system in the Mars 4 though - that's a great upgrade.
THANK YOU for this video! I've been passing up upgrading till now because my M2P still gives me such amazing prints, but the new units with their super-high rez and massive build areas are finally weakening my resolve. This was amazingly helpful - Liked and Subscribed! :D
Oh that;s sich a perfect point. yeah the Mars 2 is still solid even now!, in fact I'm about to drop a review of a 2k printer about that size and you know what. prints are fine.
I picked up the mars 4 ultra, but I already knew I’d have to swap to pfa and I’m cool with that, if you print enough, you know how often you have to replace the fep anyway so it’s not terrible to have a speedy option for parts that don’t require the hi res.
Good shout
I have an old Anycubic Mono still using its original FEP film after going through over 7 1000ml bottles of resin (or about 100 print jobs in my case). Applying PTFE dry lube to the FEP film every time you go through a bottle of resin significantly increases the lifespan of the film. I've since recently upgraded to the Anycubic Mono 2 and Anycubic M5s and expect those films to last quite a while too.
@@agentcee688 I use ptfe lube too, but after a dozen prints the film starts to look like shit with splotches and whatnot that translates into the prints so as soon as I see deformation from the fep I swap em out though I suppose it could last much longer.
@@esurfrider7687 I guess for what I print the condition of the FEP film isn't that important, it still prints with the quality I want. As long as it still works, that's all that matters, which in my case is a LONG time.
As a jeweler, I can see the benefit of speed in order to show prototypes to clients prior to manufacturing. Having two trays with both films with be an ideal situation... Heck, having 2 printers, 1 for each tray would be even better :)
Ok ok, that' sounds like a solid use. Inasume you could do a tray of test sizes too?
I have a Phrozen Sonic Mighty 8k, which does amazing detail, I don't care about how long it takes to print because I always start my prints at night or when I go to work, most prints are finished by the time I get up or return from work, quality is what I want.
Thanks for sharing! You are completely right, I do the same. If a print takes long, is rather have that and a good print.
You can just replace the film with a normal FEP and problem solved.
The ultra version actually should get you higher quality resoults once you do that because it has a frensel lens unlike the regular mars 4.
In theory but I have not seen any proof.
Yeah, exactly right. I only learned about the fresnel lens differrnce after making the video
@@FauxHammer Its also the best point of comparison we have of how it affects prints.
Saturn 8k and saturn 2 also had a different light source so not all difference in quality is necessarily from the lens.
@@magikarp2063 yeah now that I know this is there, I’m actually concerned the Mars 4 may read as worse than the Mini8k with softer edges. It wasn’t a huge deal on the sat 2 bs 8k comparison I did, but it was there.
Great video, I was all in for the new Saturn 4 Ultra, but with this video you just opened my eyes
Ultra is awesome, please wait for my review in a week
@@FauxHammer thanks, I'm really waiting to see what you have to say on ACF, VOGMAN mentioned nothing about it, must've improved I guess.
Just ordered 2kg of the Wargamer resin - as while I love using Phrozen 8k resin - its far to brittle for everyday use of miniatures, - so really looking forward to testing this wargamer resin
I really liked your review on the Photon Mono X 6ks, it was way more informative than AC's provided material or videos. That one brought me to your channel and I really appriciate your honest and realistic reviews as I keep watching.
You are spot on about Bambu's success, it really wasn't until my P1P that I could enjoy learning modeling and other aspects of tinkering more and not spending so much energy keeping my bed slinger alive. I don't really care about the speeds, the quality and also the follow up from Bambu in makeing their stuff better keeps me loyal to them... for now.
Thanks for the vids, cheers.
Thanks, brands don’t tend to explain much of their own products or how they work.
That Wargamer resin looks intriguing, I wanted something ABSlike, but waterwashable. It's not sold in EU though, right?
Yeah that exactly what we wanted to put out there but also sharper that most abs like. Not in the EU yet, but we are trying. Only way to do it would be to import from Uk and prices would be insane
@@FauxHammer looking forward to it. I am in a weird situation when I will live in UK for next 8 months, but my 3d printer is back in EU and sadly resin is not exactly something that one can take with them on the plane ;).
The comment about Bambu Labs FDM printers being about convenience is so on-point. Much like the AnkerMake FDM printer being for convenience to the casual home user (no slicer needed, just print from the app), so the Bambu Labs printers are aimed at people who want to unpack the printer, plug it in and have it print perfect (multi-material) prints without any tedious configuration or trial-and-error.
On the other end of the scale you got the people who build their own Voron FDM printers and spend more time tweaking and tinkering the printer than actually printing with it. I'd say that most people who buy a 3D printer just want it to bloody well work, and not turn into another project just to get it to print half-way decent. That the Bambu Labs printers are fast is nice, but don't forget the ~10 minute self-test and calibration before they even begin to print. This all so that you get the guarantee of a successful print rather than a pile of spaghetti or a failed first layer. That they're also fast CoreXY printers is secondary in that regard.
Thanks, and yeah. I get to proove this soon too because they are finally sending me one!!!!!
@@FauxHammer Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on it :)
@@MayaPosch oh I already love it and I know why I love it. I’ll do some previously I tested stuff. But honestly, what can I say now that has my already been said….
I’m just glad I’m getting the printer.
I have a Phrozen Mighty 8k and while I do print really amazing prints I would have to say for people wanting to print way bigger pieces with models that can take up several build plate space, Speed is indeed a factor. Reducing time by as much as 50% on a 9 hour print means I can finish models in one day instead of two. Maybe for minatures speed really isnt an issue because they dont use up as much time and space but for bigger prints not only does speed matter but also reducing the amount of failures which are less common in small minutures.
Print quality. Every time. The makers got something confused... we wanted print speed AS LONG AS we didn't give up quality.
I suppose the guys doing mass printing (Etsy folks?) have a different criteria, but for people like me who want to make their own models for gaming and painting, it's quality we're looking for.
I really appreciate your reviews, but I have a question - CAN WE REMOVE THE ACF FILM FOR FEP? If so, what does that do to the printer settings? Can the slicer handle it? Does the printer pre-configs get all messed up?
MANY MANY THANKS!
Just bought this printer as a complement to my Sonic Mini-8K, but mostly for printing castable resins for metal casting. Will be replacing the ACF with nFEP film before I print a single print! Buying it for the 9K/18µ pixel size because I want the best most detailed metal prints I can get.
FYI... Maybe the printer you reviewed in this video, but all the advertising/product descriptions that I've seen show that this printer has a tempered glass screen protector over the LCD.
How has the Mars 4 ultra for cast worked for you? I just ordered it to start with 3D jewelry castings, but I have doubts about whether it is the best option in terms of printing quality.
Industrial resin printers benefit from ACF-style film because of the lower pull forces needed to release. Speed can be one benefit, but the most important is that with lower pull forces, you can use less or thinner supports, you can successfully print unsupported overhangs at shallower angles and you get less distortion of the model during printing. unless you are in a super high-detail business like jewelry for example, that "texture" that ACF brings is not a bad thing and it contributes to a more consistent surface look and sheen around the part, eliminating that mirror smooth surface on the top of the prints when printed using FEP.
thanks for another good review! the more i watch, the more i really think im going to save up, and go right for a DLP model
Glad I could help!
I think the reason behind this is that small business do care about print speed since even if they do have idle times with their printers.. they do work based on batched and orders.. and when they happen they have a deadline. imagine having a big order and being unable to fulfill the order because it's impossible to match a quota based on the printer speed unless you have to buy a new printer. And small business that can do this.. will buy more than one printer for their farms so.. it's a pretty important business as well besides hobbyists..
I get that, but I'd be more worried when that business hands out those fast printedcmodels and the client balks at the quality suddenly being far worse than what they had before.
Great video but can you please please PLEASE do a video of this elegoo mars 4 ultra with the ACF films first then swap it out for FEP and do a side by side comparison. EVERYONE is dying to see this test, and the amount of times you've said ACF makes the prints worse it's time to show the real life results of this variation. Not in a mars 4 the same printer the ultra that's what we want to see.
That’s the plan. When I get these printers. I’m here to review the printers I get. When I get a normal Mars 4, I’ll print with that, then use the Mars 4 vat on the ultra so I don’t waste an ACF film now.
@@FauxHammer ok but technically if you are careful can't you remove it and re-install it later?? (no experience with resin printers, looking now to buy one)
@@St0RM33 yeah I could, but I have 7 other printers here to review and 5 more on the way!
@@FauxHammer well more videos, more views, more money to make haha
@@FauxHammerdo you have an idea of what settings you’d change (and how much you’d change them) if printing on the 4 Ultra when using PFA?
I still print on a mars2pro and a Jupiter, so I range from 45 to 50 microns voxels and no one imagines I’m using “old” printers.
Food for thought..
I'm sure the print quality will be much better than my original Mars which I still use and is my only resin printer.
You got it right. Quality is why I'm looking at rising. But like the DLP as the screen replacement concerns me as I've watched videos about how things go wrong. Thanks for your heads up on this one.😮😊😊😊😊
It’s almost like I know the 3D printing audience better than the blood manufacturers!
Interesting. This is the first I'd heard of the ACF films, but I too am more interested in quality over speed. I'm not trying to print in bulk quantity for commercial purposes..
Hope I explained it well
I like the option of the new film, as i actually got some for my larger printer to have it run my terrain and will do small miniatures on the classic films in my smaller printers for precision. Its a great option, i just wish it was more clear to the customer what its good for.
QUALITY is KING!! Speed is only a member of the court :P
I recently bought a Saturn 8K and I have been very pleased with the print quality over my old Mars 2PRO. (Nevermind the much larger build plate) I can't see me replacing the Saturn anytime soon.
Yeah that's is an awesome printer
I still haven't had chance to start using the saturn 2 I got late last year. I've kept wondering about an upgrade to this generation, but honestly I don't really think it feels like there's enough of a difference right now for me
I don’t have a printer but thinking of getting one. I want to print mini’s so quality over speed. Just basic good sense. Love the vids great info
Maybe instead of chasing speed, how about they chase peel force! Peel force is the reason why you can't print technically accurate parts. A cylinder printed at a 45 degree angle is going to loose accuracy in the diameter and squareness because of the peel forces stretching and pulling on the part. Formlabs have a great solution but unfortunately can't be used with LCD printers. Having a tilting vat & screen would be a step up but that would increase costs. There is one LCD printer that has a tilting vat but can't remember the model.
I bet it can be done. But expensive To engineer
Prusa SL1S
Speed matters in production prints of functional parts where quality means accuracy and strength vs looks.
ACF work best for large model because you can use lesser support, less support mean less bumpy surface and easier for post processing, sure you will sacrifice some micro detail, but what is the point of having sharper detail if you'll have to sand it later to smooth support's marks. Also multipart model can fit easier due to less distortion/warp.
So basically, from a miniature wargaming perspective, this means it is the best option to print all of your terrain in resin. Especially since most terrain lack large swathes of smooth surfaces. Which when viewed in that light, is not a bad thing at all.
This just needs to be effectively marketed for such projects, instead of allowing users to assume they are getting the best resolution on this screen than any other printer, when the OEM ACF is getting in the way of that.
Thus, it's only drawback, is Elegoo's lack of effective communication of that quality to consumers.
This very well may be one of the resin printers where you would really want two separate resin tanks. One with ACF, and one with FEP, to get the best of both worlds for just the cost of merely one additional tank, rather than the cost of an additional printer...
Perhaps this may yet turn out to be a hot ticket item afterall.
ACF is here to stay or something better then FEP.
I went with speed over quality with my mage pro for model railway stuff in 1/87 scale.
The loss of quality is not thay much to bother about, I know people that are happy with FDM printer quality.
There is a market for both speed and quality printers.
I agree with you entirely. I think it's the marketing of these printers I have issue with. They all say, no quality loss with PFa and faster speeds
That's a lie
@@FauxHammer +1, Even some of the FDM printers lose strength with speed which is a non starter for me
I'm looking forward to seeing what happens when you change out the FEP, and if there's any benefits to this one over the Mars 4 in the end.
the nice thing about the ultra it comes with wifi, frensel lens (i hope it doesn't yellow as it's plastic) and better build mechanism, it would be better to give PFA film and double rails than ACF film..they are kinda shooting themselves in the foot here
It will be the same quality as the nars 4 but with the other enhanced features. Just like the M5s was to the M5
@@FauxHammer the point is to see if it's worth the extra money..in my mind yes, the issue they don't have yet a spare vat for sale yet
@@St0RM33 I’ve got a Saturn 3 resin tank with PFA arriving soon and will try printing out some minis to see how much sharper it is compared to the ACF that came with the ultra
@@slayer1551 hmm tag me once you do:)
Would the reduced sucky force of acf film mean the ability to reduce supports/support contact size? The biggest downfall of resin printers detail is support damage
Yeah very possibly. But most stuff I print is presupported anyway.
Yes, especially for larger prints ... ACF is a godsend for functional parts that need to be prototyped.
Own a Mars 4 Ultra, purchased a Mars 4 Tank for it (same size/shape, just FEP instead of ACF) and the prints are visibly better. No going back for me now.
Since I changed my M5S to standard FEP, I am not going back to the ACF. I would love to give Wargamer a try, but cannot find it stateside, and it seems a bit pricey compared to my SirayaTech Simple go to.
Thanks, great yo hear from people like you who have done this rather than people who just comment against this point and have never tried.
Yeah it is expensive, sorry. But we feel it’s the best balance out there for miniatures and it’s easy to use with it being water washable
Hi, do you mind solving some doubts? I'm new into 3D printing and I've pre-ordered the M5s. I'm a bit concerned since there are multiple videos praising it's printing quality, but I've also found the videos and analysis from FauxHammer in which says that the printing quality is not as good as the Phrozen Mini 8k, for example. I want to print wargaming miniatures and bits to do conversions and maybe some more bigger models or terrain. I've found that you are one of the few people that has changed the ACF for the FEP, and I was wondering if it really makes a difference in quality, or should I think about swapping to another printer with smaller printing area but smaller pixel size. Thanks a lot!
@@munias17 the printer is great, but I am not a fan of the ACF film and I changed my FEP out. If you are printing miniature armies, you will want a medium format build plate ( M5, M5S, Saturn, Mighty 8k, etc). You can get more on the plate. If you are doing one off models, I would recommend going with the Elegoo Mars line (not the Ultra due to ACF film) or Mini 8ks for your first printer. The Mars 4 series has the smallest pixels at this time and Fauxhammer just put out a review. If you got the entry price on the M5S I would stick with it. You can always change the film if the ACF doesn't work for you. That is what I did. I highly recommend Siraya tech Simple water washable to start. It is an easy resin to deal with and has a good price point with great results. The is also a great Reddit community building up for the M5S at r/AnyCubicPhotonMonoM5s.
Thankbyoubfor this review it has given me some insight. Also, in your video, where did you find those underwater themed deathguard? Never mind had to read description a second time.
Glad you found them and I hope Mezgike got another sale from you. He's an incredible creator.
Nice vid as usual buddy
Quality over speed is the whole point of 3D printing in general for me. The only reason I'd do more resin prints is for detail. Otherwise, I'll use FDM. Quality over speed is key there, too. I've been keeping an eye on the Neptune line, hoping we'd get to sub-50 micron detail, but nooo, speed is the New Thing. Chasing speed is an active quest in the wrong direction, and it's soured me on the Neptunes.
You can print at sub 50 on the Neptune's. I've done 40 micron on my Neptune. But its not resin quality because you still have extruded plastic and the edge of each layer will always be slightly beveled.
Resin prints with rando ABS like resins gets stronger prints for functional parts than FDM hands down. Its the needless slowness of the prints that hampers resin printers from taking over and making FDM obsolete. Quality in functional parts uses case doesn't mean micron resolution
speed is what i want. because normally we dont need that detail on the part.
well possible for mega is good
Have you thought about doing a video on the Features you'd like to see in a 3D printer and what would be your perfect 3D printer? (with in reason of course) Would be cool to hear your complete thoughts on this subject.
I actually have yeah. But what I won't keeps changing.
Looking at getting this and replacing the ACF with nFEP. Not as fast as ACF, yet faster than FEP. Build quality between FEP and nFEP on my Orange 4K were basically identical.
great review. the main comment I would have is when you had the test comparisons on the screen, the Ultra (right side) was actually slightly out of focus. so yeah it looks blurrier. :D
Yeah sorry, it's older footage. But you can see more vertical lines and recesses at the bottom.
I'm quite active on the reddit resin printing page, and #1 cause of fails by noobs by a country mile is racing their printer 200% faster than it was ever meant to go. I've no tangible proof where they're getting these settings (I have my suspicions; thankfully it's not here or anyone else I'm subbed to), but even on the smallest print bed, 380mm/min lift and retract is going to rip your print to shreds if not send their printer to an early grave. I've had hordes of people jump down my throat because 'so and so on youtube said ----', and when I say the total opposite, I'm wrong naturally, despite having no financial incentive in their success ratio other than trying to get them better prints so the hobby spreads. Damned if you do kind of thing, but I'm sure you know _that_ story too.
End note, I tell people to slow down their printer and avoid quick, jerky movements. The ones that listen always come back to thank me; a nice gesture nonetheless but at least some want to succeed at this. I'm not entirely sold on the whole two stage control bit either. Another 'in the name of speed' idea, which I suppose could work if set correctly, but that's not the way I've seen the vast majority of settings being run. A failure is always more expensive in materials and detriment of the hardware than an extra hour or 90 minutes of print time, especially when it was an avoidable failure that ruins your machine. (Lots of supports popping holes in vat films there, too, as of late).
Well, based on what you just said, I'm 100% on your side. There is far too much BS AROUND 3D printing that makes it harder for people.
That's why I made my “how to lrintvminiatures” video. I'm yet to find the person that followed that guide and hasn't started getting successful prints.
@@FauxHammer I'll give that a watch and might be referencing it in the near future! I picked up a GKTwo this week, and man it's a sweet printer. I've had others naturally, but was just blown away at how good it was out of the box. I couldn't believe how easy it was to get a great print with a few adaptations from my old profile on a 4k printer. Like "is this how easy it is now, or is it just That good?!" I did the profile before I had the machine, and it needs a tweak to _lower_ the exposure after a Very good full plate print a (did an exposure test first of course) but it came out so great, I immediately had confidence to just resume converting previous files and get back to my backlog! It was already at 1 second normal layers, which my old printers liked but were on the softish side; easy support removal. This at one second, they came out like iron! Just total wow, and very worth the purchase! Might have to convert the whole fleet in time!!
HI! I assume that the tray of mars 4 and mars 4 are exactly the same, isnit?, except for the film. For 29€, I think im going to buy mars 4 ultra and the tray of mars 4. Great video! You have to consider to sell your resin in spain also.
yep, identical between normal and ultra machines
The screen is a consumable item. You’re going to have to replace it eventually. I popped a tiny hole in mine almost right away. I wish I would have watched this video before I bought FEP screens.
"the higher price printer doesn't deliver better results than the direct counterpart"
Its this way for every Mars since the original though? The "Pro" (and now the Ultra) models has always been just a few more premium upgrades from their cheaper counterparts, with no difference in their actual printing specifications.
But this one, is worse
The reason z=0 is not automated is because it is not part of the plate leveling function. It is an independent system that is not for setting the home position - but for offsetting the start position to account for other variables. So you never hit that button when the plate is at the home position, that would be pointless (unless someone has already offset the position and you wish to return it to home).
So ummm, when you send the plate to Home, Then tioghten the plate, then tell it that that positon, the Home position is 0. then 0 is not home?
@@FauxHammer zero is home by default. So unless you have moved the z offset that part is not necessary. That's why it is not together, or automated, which was your question. You don't need to do that at all (unless you have moved it off home).
But the idea is that you should move it off home, that's what it is for after all. But that has nothing to do with plate leveling. That is 'z calibration' - where you print a low fine object of known height and then measure the result, then adjust the z=0 to correct the error.
You hear people using different sheets of paper when they level the plate - that's just dumb. That's what z=0 is there for.
So basically if you are not using it correctly, then you should only press that button once in the lifetime of the printer.
I wish maunfactuers wouldn't focus so much on speed, what I would like to see on all printers is heated resin tanks, would add so much convenience and save money on external heating, enclosures, etc. They do it with print beds in FDM printers as standard, why not resin too?
Where do I get wargamer resin in the US without having to pay UK shipping?
It's only in the UK for now, sorry we will look to open up to worldwide shipping asap
Thank you for sharing the info. I have a doubt about 11:13 > is the comparison inverted ? I see Mars 4 Ultra is sharper than GKTWO.
I have to say I partially disagree with your statement about nobody wants the speed if it lowers the quality. Because printing geometrical/mechanical parts (where appearance is still important enough to make FDM non applicable) does not require so many details as for figurine and the win of time is really appreciated. For instance I print weapon replica and a slide, a trigger, a housing are really good even with 0.1 layer and with lifting high speed. So ACF is really welcome in this case.
Maybe it is not the goal for a small volume printer but for larger ones I think both FEP and ACF usage are relevant. It just depends of the need.
Yeah I was probably too harsh on this. But when I say “nobody” I meant 99% of the community. Which seems to have been echoed by many people, loud and clear.
My lint it more, what is the point such high resolution then yoh diminish it, it makes the 9k pointless when a 4k would do the exact same thing.
But if it did t say 9k, nobody would by it either because they think its lesser
It’s marketing BS
@@FauxHammer agree. Tkx for clarification
I was turned off by the ACF due to the low detail I was seeing from people posting pics of their prints in the M5s facebook group, to the point that I just went for the 8K Uniformity instead. Much more expensive, but since FH puts it at the top of his list for printing minies, that's what I went with.
Is it also at the top of your list when it comes to details? Because quality of life aside, in the end details are what matter no?
Well, the m5 screen isn’t very sharp anyway. So adding act will make it worse
For me the advantage is just easier releasing meaning fewer supports and (hopefully) cleaner prints but as you say if it's at the cost of detail its sorta pointless.
That is a shame these ship with the cloudy FEP. At least it can be replaced but still a nuisance. I agree with quality over speed 100%. I would love to try the Wargamer resin but live in the US. I just picked up a Saturn 2 8k printer and was thinking about sticking to the phrozen 4k resin that I use in the Mars Pro 3. I am nervous about the 8k being too brittle based on your review and others. Whats your take on this for printing minis? 4k resin in an 8k printer?
Well 4k and 8k on resins are just marketing terms. It's just means higher detail, but normally at the cost of rigidity.
Elegoo 8k space grey is a tad more flexible. Some people mix in so sirayatech tenacious with their 8k to toughen it up.
I like anycubiv FLp craftsman's for it's sharpnes and strength. And some and resins are fairly decent, just not that sharp.
Phrozen 4k is nice. In fact ours is kinda like phrozen 4k resin. But is also water washable. Which is probably why it costing us more
Great video!
I would love to see a video changing the fep and comparing with its little sister and big brothers before black friday :) This would help me make up my mind as having a different lens might make the results unsatisfactory. What do you think?
Hope you're subscribed then, because it's out tomorrow
@@FauxHammer What great news!
Of course, I was already for a long time! ;)
A few years from now we'll see everyone ditching ACF because it's horrible, speed isn't worth the loss of quality.
I expect they will have something better within a year.
Got, I hope it doesn’t take years, this is why I wanted to get out there now and state that it’s crap.
While I don't have much interest in this specific 3D printer I am very interested in your resin. Can we expect a full review video of it?
I'll probably do an announcement video in the future to drum up more interest and understanding. But in sending it to other creators for their reviews. I can't really require something I have this much if a personal stake in and be objective.
For basic jewelry making simple details speed would be nice ...
speed at the cost of quality though?
It's not just about speed, the reduced lift force helps with reliability.
How so?
@@FauxHammerUh, reliable peeling has been at the core of these resin printers since the start. The less force that's used on the peel, the less force is exerted on the model and things like supports, etc. Don't you remember back in the late 2000s they used to use siloxane coated reservoirs for the release?
I thank you for the review. I will be printing highly detailed jewelry ,can I should change the film to nfep? What are your thoughts.
Thank you for your video's on Resin Printing. I've been looking into 3d printing for a very long time. I am currently building a Voron 2.4 because I decided to start with a MDF printer since I wanted an all purpose printer to start with. However, at the time I was shopping most decent Resin Printers were still in the $600 to $800 range. I've since discovered the Elegoo Mars 4 Max and that range of printers, which, for a beginner in resin printing, are very reasonably priced. Thank you for your reviews on those and thank you for your notes on ACF with this video. It has made my decision about which one of the Elegoo printers to go for much easier.
All of that said, I noticed right away that you pour your resin into the resin tank by pouring it over the top of the build plate and letting it run off into the tank. Is there a particular reason you add resin this way? It looks to me like it would pose a number of potential problems and I'm trying to understand why so that I can do things right from the beginning.
The idea of a Voron scares me
The resin pour is just a signature move. Has no value
@@FauxHammer I get that. But for an MDF printer I couldn't find a better printer that can do more than a Voron.
One day man will make telescopes that can see atoms
Interested to see how this stacks up against a Mars 3 or something similar. I understand that the ACF means the 4 sacrifices a bit of quality for speed, but if that reduction means that it is still producing excellent quality prints (hopefully better than the 3) just faster then I'm all for it? There's a limit on how much detail you can actually see once a mini is primed and painted, and I'm not sold on the idea that exposure tests reflect that.
It's not as sharp as the mars 3 when you use ACF
As with Saturn 3, looks like the non ultra version is the one to get. It's unfortunate though that the non ultra versions still come with the ball joint system build plate. Like you, I much prefer the 4 screw system. That's my main complaint with my own Saturn 2. That and the fans that continue to run after the print is done.
In fans spinning case elegiac can provide You a chore that will turn them off. We can also go with ultra and change that ACF film ehh
@@smokehead5318 yeah you can but why would one want to pay more and have to change a brand new FEP just to get the most out of the 9k screen?
@@netnoob77 Idk, because they do not think like they should from our perspective:)? There are x% of people that do not watch yt, just buying in rush probably.
Well, that’s more of a glass is half empty view. I’d say the better option is to get this and just replace the acf with PFA
So I'm currently in the market for my first SLA printer (had FDM printers for over 6 years now). My use case is minis but also larger things like train tracks for my childs duplo train or new parts for my childs marble track. That's why I think the, at least now, pretty common size of roughly 200x200x123 mm would be perfect for me (of course if it's a little larger that's also fine). I'd also like the printer to be as hassle free as possible. The Phrozen Sonic Mighty 8k is a little too expensive for my taste so right now I'm looking at the M5, M5s, Saturn 3 and Saturn 3 Ultra. Would you say that that's the correct models to look at or am I missing one that I shouldn't miss? And which one would you recommend? Hope this question is not too loaded! Thanks for your amazing videos, I only discovered your channel a few days ago and your videos are really top notch!
I prefer the speed i dont see any drop in quality you just seem to acf and hype zoom in that no one will see from table distance
mines still in its box.. just dunno if i should open it and use. i won it in competition.. but need a spare room and ventilation etc.. hhmm just dunno if i can get this setup
at 3:58 you say this printer has dual linear rails... I only see one rail.
yeah it's only one rail..they should have spend the extra money adding one and shipping with pfa film instead
Sorry, I was trying to say “I’m not going to talk about (the usual crap I say in videos)” but looking back I can see how this seems like I’m suggesting it has dual linear rails
@@FauxHammer Love your work - just thought I was missing something. I am in the market, so I am paying extra attention. I had preordered the Anycubic M5s, but cancelled. Just do not know what to do.
I use acf film for when I need to print and iterate on a model. Once I get something final I just print with nfep. so for me it works perfect. I have a photon m5s and its been printing great right out of the box.
I'll take the Ultra just for the other upgrades & get a 2nd vat with a pfa screen so I can swap them.
Interesting video! i got a saturn 3 12k and the "fep" was cloudy and i wasnt getting the expected results. after changing to actual fep (i thought theyd left a protective layer on in factory by accident) im actually getting fantastic results now! at the time i wasnt aware of acf but yeah im sticking to proper fep sheets for now for sure! NGL im curious how much better your new resin is for minis than sunlu standard grey may pick some up soon to compare!
You got the ultra version? Or does the Saturn 3 also come with ACF?
@@patt4343 Saturn 3 does not come with acf only ultra
Thanks for sharing. I live comments like that that validate and groove the point I was making, rather than just complain at me about it.
Glad you got the result you wanted and it is an easy change
Do you know if that Mars 4 Ultra build plate fits on other Mars 4 printers? I was curious if you could buy that part and just pop it on the regular Mars 4 or DLP. I much prefer the 4 bolt design.
Whilst I can understand wanting to review exactly what you are given, I do feel by not testing the pfa on the ultra you are leaving the review a little incomplete.
From what I can see the standard vs ultra video you've mentioned won't be a direct pfa vs acf comparison as the ultra has a fresnal lens and the standard does not.
It might only be a tiny difference but surely it's worth exploring how much of a impact that fresnal lens will give?
Yeah I'll do that test too. I'll show what the mars 4 does in comparison to the Msr 4 ultra bad spend more time on the ultra with PFa instead of act.
But I don't have I finite time and resources. I could change the act for pfa now. But them in wasting a merge toy good sheet of act.
Or I could wait for my mars 4 and just use that vat in this
In the mean time ill get on with reviewing the bother 7 printers I have sat here then the 5 more I have in the way.
Between that I have work and a family.
I understand you want to see that comparison and I fully Intend on doing it. I want yo see what it does too. But I only have so much time. I'm sorry.
@@FauxHammerabsolutely no need to apologise! I've got a small business in the mini painting hobby myself alongside an erratic full time job. It's more then fair that you'd rather wait to do the comparison to ensure more efficient use of your time :)
Having an absolute nightmare right now finding a screen protector for the 4 ultra.
They actually come with a tempered glass one. It is disguised under the tape/seal. You can get replacements from Elegoo
🙂 Have done it myself.
I'm confused why you aren't reviewing the Prusa resin printer.
They haven't sent me one
try replacing the ACF with FEP or PFA not as a review but as a test of the new HIGHEST RES. print possibility. how do these tiny pixels compare to the m5, m5s, Saturn 4, etc, phrozen, etc.
I’ll replace it in the next video and explain why I didn’t do it already.
I personally LOVE Elegoo's water-washable resin so... maybe I'll give you a try!
Re: ACF - why not just replace it with a FEP right out of the box? I use 'Vroom' retraction settings on my M2P (with water-soluble!) and get amazing results. 100% agree I do NOT want detail loss for increased speed!!!
lol, good question Watch my Saturn 3 Ultra video, that will tell you why I don't just replace it.
hope you like our resin
Of course resolution is a top need for your audience seeing the audience that needs stronger than FDM print at high speeds for functional parts and prototyping has been ignored. I'm thinking if resin printers started off fast and accurate being able to print stronger than FDM prints with ABS like resin and high precision then resolution would be less of a priority.
The fast, strong, precise space is being under indexed by resin printer corps who focus on micron / less than human hair level details.
Well, the good thing is that the acf film liners can be replaced... Bet everyone will replace it
Also.. I think that this was already asked.. but I always wonder why do you put your resin into the vat like that... It never spilled? Even a drop?
I think we need the option. So both have their use
Agreed, the resin pour is just for cinematic efect
Thanks! I won't do that then lmao.. I bought a saturn 2 recently as my first printer so I'm learning little by little.
@@TheBelrickYeah I can imagine having a farm of printers and having a order coming up with a specific deadline then speed would be necessary for example..
@@wildguardian lol yeah, do what i say, not what i do.. lol
i want an app on my phone that alarms me when the print is finished. i think anycubic has this
That would be useful
Up here in Canada the Mars 4 Ultra is about $180 more than the Mars 4 9K. If we ignore the high speed capabilities of the Ultra, is there still any reason to spend the extra money on it?
No one would complain about faster prints if the quality stayed the same or better :) Speed should not come at the expense of quality.
You are 100% right!
Ok.....I'm new to 3D printing Resin or filament. So my question is what resolution do I aim for? The higher number or lower? Does the higher number mean more pixels and a more flawless print or does the lower number mean that. I'm looking at the Anycubic M5s. I watched your video on it and though you didn't think it did any better than the M5 it had better features for a noob like me. I also am looking at the unifirmation gk2. However it's double the price and being new to this i dont want to spend alot of money. Any advice would be appreciated. I really like your videos. They are in depth and informative
The higher the number the more detail that pops out in theory, especially on smaller prints.
It depends what you are trying to do, But the M5S is a perfectly good beginner machine. Only buy more expensive when you know exactly why you are doing so.
Higher resolution numbers mean more detail (except there's more to it than that ofc...) So 8k is (potentially) better than 4k for instance. Being new to it, you should bear in mind a couple of things, some of which review channels rarely mention:
Is it a really popular printer? (you want to get a really popular printer to help with any trouble shooting as lots of people will own one and have solved issues before you come across them)
Are parts for it (new fep sheets, LCD, replacement resin vat, power supply, touch screen) easily available?
Where will your printer live? If it's in a workshop or garage, you probably don't need to worry too much about the fumes from the resin, but if it's in your home then is it possible for you to get a printer with some sort of air filter built in?
How warm is the environment that it will live be? (You would ideally keep the resin at around 22-27 degrees C)
Where is the power button and usb port located? On some printers the usb port is on the side, which is a mild pain, the power button can often be on the back, which is also a pain (it sounds like no big deal, but you'd be surprised how annoying it can be while you're regularly using it).
Does it have wifi (which *actually* works, because quite a few of them in the past have had it, but it didn't actually work or wasn't reliable).
Finally, does it have anti aliasing? (Most newer printers do)
So consider those points, but don't stress too much. Once you get the hang of using one, the only things you'll really regret are if you buy one that has a print bed that's smaller than you'd ideally like and whether it's easy to find information about it to help with troubleshooting issues, as well as is it easy to get replacement parts for.
4k Is probably fine for most applications, 8k is nice... 12k is honestly more than 99% need (and you won't be able to tell any difference by eye between that and 8k anyway), a Fresnel lens would be nice, but it's not worth agonizing over, you'll be able to print great stuff with a regular lens.
Heads up: You'll make mistakes learning to use it, everyone does, you'll spill some uncured resin at some point, everyone does, but you'll be chuffed to bits when you have your first successful print, everyone is! :D
Higher resolution is more detail, but what the community has come to compare is the pixel size. The smaller the pixels, the higher the detail.
If you are new, chekxnout my article in best 3d printer for miniatures. Link in video description. And this puts my preferences forball these printers in order.
Mars 4 ultra or gktwo?
Thank you for the review. i think i will order the 4k Ultra and replace the ACF. i canceld my M5S order although i made the order very cheap (374€), but the M5S is too big for me and i was worried about extra costs when i have to replace the display or so.
Good call, it's a solid unit. Though why not a Saturn I stead of m5? I don't know what you print but yi me, that larger build area is so much more useful. Even than quality in most cases.
@@FauxHammer still unsure after watching lot of printer reviews. I don't need big build area since i just print small tabletop figures and no full units or so. i am affraid of higher costs for repairing and other extras if i choose a big printer. Did you get your Mars 4? i would love to see the comparison and the print with the Mars 4 Ultra with PFA. The new video about the Saturn 3 Ultra was confusing :D
Have you come to any conclusions, or closer to any on why the different between the new Saturn with ACF and this Mars 4 Ultra with ACF? Mine gets here tomorrow, and in part wondering if I should get ready to order a more clear film for it.
Maybe they can make a ACF/FEP hybrid film and get most of the benefits of each.
i def want print quality! and i HATE when printers have those fep sheets with plastic around them and you cant just unscrew it you have to buy the expensive packs of them which are just stupid. i can replace it myself..its barely less hassle and way more money for those things. also dislike the ball joint thing, ive had both my elegoos become loose when trying to level it..annyoing
Fauxhammer, I love your reviews, all the 3d product purchases I have made where inspired by your reviews, I am looking forward to your hopeful review of the elegoo saturn 3 ultra, I guess they've also been watching your reviews and have made some changes especially to the ball socket 😅, I would like to purchase one but would want to hear your thoughts on it before I make a hopeful purchase. Can you pls find out whether this 3d printer the elegoo has a Print Resume feature in the case of a power outage. The anycubic printers I use have this feature and I absolutely love them for it, I am in Africa and unexpected power outages are a bit of the norm, will love to watch a video on whether all 3d printers (SLA) have this feature, because frankly anything can happen I am looking forward to your reviews and response to this lengthy text. Thank you in advance faux hammer. Lastly anycubic have completely stopped their production of the m3 premium, my all time favourite printer 😢 I don't know why, but I can't seem to get it any where not even in china 😢 I guess the build and performance quality was too good to continue production, I frankly think it much better than thier m5s
I know my Saturn 2 has that function cause I had a owier cur. Not only did it reune, it did it automatically when the power came back on
Thank you Faux hammer
My actual priority is RELIABILITY THEN QUALITY THEN SPEED... I have plenty of time for "turn it on and go to work" or "turn it on and go to sleep" i don't have time for "wake up to a failed print" If i can give up 2 to 3 percent surface finish for a printer that NEVER FUCKS UP EVER i am down for that exchange...