Is ACF better then NFEP/PFA? Let's find out!
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- Опубликовано: 27 апр 2024
- In this video i'm looking into ACF release liners to see if they are worth the money with pull and printspeed tests.
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I want to add that this video has been filmed June of last year and i have to say, my English got a lot faster and it looks like i added a buttload of resin tests the last year😆
You english was great I never struggled at all to understand you. Americans are very used to and even joy foreign accents due to the ammount of imigration into the nation.
Thanks for the comparison
Another great comparison video! Have to comment to feed the algorithm 😂👍
Feed it real good 😄
Great video. Superhelpful. Might try this on my old MonoX (of which I have 2).
You won't regret the change, now i'm running double the speed with less support
@@NoizieWorks With ACF can you leave resin in the vat or do you need to drain it all the time? I've heard both. Thank!
@almonster2066 i typically would advise against it because most resins will seperate and then you have to mix it in the vat.
But for the fep i don't really think it's a problem.
Hey yves. Is the acf interresting for serie production printing you think. ( full build plate ) Im not directly looking for faster speed but a more quality product. I use the abs like resin from uniformation on the gktwo. Testing more resin's ( monocure tensile, jamghe eng pro, siraya mixes, etc ) for the moment.
Like you could see with the giant block you get lower suction forces so in theory less failure.
There are some people saying that quality takes a hit but from what i can see with the naked eye 🤷♂️ they all look the same so yes it's going to help you in production situation.
If you keep the same speeds you will notice you can use less invasive supports with acf something i failed to mention in the video.
1 thing tho the campaing is for big spools so if you are looking for a few sheets you will have to look somewhere else.
I have found the ACF has trouble with finer supports. My theory is because it is more rubbery it sort of "twists/bends" the fine supports before releasing. I find that the NFEP does a better job with better job with fine supports/pillars at the same speed.
The other thing with ACF is how much life it has, it is much lower than the NFEP and if you consider the cost per a layer printed vs cost per a sheet it comes out to be more like 6x the price of NFEP. Ofcourse you can lower the speed as the ACF wears out.
Great video, would love to see more. Ironically in my testing, I too was using anycubic eco resin.
The eco resin isn't available anymore as far i can see(it's for the good).
As for lifetime, i didn't see any degradation and i have done more hours on it then any other nfep i ever put on a machine.
You mean it gets more sticky over time?
This is ofcourse my observation on the s3ultra and the jupiter.
I haven't found supports to be a problem, i use basic chitu light support on every model without problems which was not the case for nfep.
I do use rest time after retract so the model can settle and it stops flowing depending on the viscosity 0.5 to 1.5 sec seems to do the trick so maybe try that?
Price is problematic no doubt but i look it that way, i have 95% succes prints now which i didn't have with nfep.
Wasting 500ml on a model because of a failed print ads up quickly so while speed is cool you get a lot more reliability on the same speeds with acf.
@@NoizieWorks I just checked, looks like the re-branded to "Plant Based Resin"? It won't be long now until they start calling it "Vegan Resin".
It would be interesting to know what the true lifetime and forces over number of pulls are. Anycubic's firmware begins recommending changing ACF film after 10,000 layers. On the other hand there are people in the community saying their NFEP's are lasting well over 100,000 layers. So I think there is a lack of clarity and confusion in this area.
As for the twisting of support, I ran tests with identical print settings (2 second delay). It's not that the ACF couldn't print small supports, it's that the NFEP could printer even finer supports/pillars. I would have expected the opposite since the ACF is lower force. One test showed this was "J3D's cubes of calibration".
J3D does have a video comparing the two, and it does show the effect I am discussing. ruclips.net/video/XxbzuRCv22Y/видео.html
Your videos are great and do alot to clarify things so it isn't all just folklore, I will probably have to try ACF again this time with Sunlu abs like.
@Nekativ1 watched it and i think i get what you mean now.
I would strongly recommend to try a better resin first and compare it.
Super weird and not at all my experience so far.
The streaking he gets looks problematic.
I have seen fauxhammer complain about that issue on anycubic printers and it wasn't the fep but don't quote me on that (wasn't that long ago)
About the suction forces he had some doubts about.
The sound difference alone is day and night, the fep sounds like it's ripping it off with acf being dead silent making you think the print failed.
Also the fep movement of acf is minimal while nfep needs more lift height.
I have done plenty of prints on the jupiter last year and all models come out crisp, now i'm not sure about microscopic differences but imo the pixel size on the jupiter is the limiting factor.
On the other hand the S3ultra is 12K so yeah...
Going to look into it, i still have some nfep around.
Testing the lifetime claims is going to be very hard to do that in a controlled way without 24/7 printing.
Not sure how you can speed up the process reliably.
That being said i just replaced my first acf sheet after puncturing it.
That sheet had way more then 10.000 cycles on it.
Just making this video being pessimistic about the heigth, the model height is about 120mm divided by 0.05mm layer height you already have around 2400 peels times 4 models and then add at least 3 resin testing gauntlets before i punctured it.
Feels like they just want you to spend the dollar bills yo.
About the resin, they probably rebranded that crap like you mentioned but the last video they where both available at the same time.
Vegan resin lol 😄 what's next, food safe?
I see this all the time despite what resin you use. ACF will almost never get as many pillars on my Boxes of Calibration print across thousands of users that have sent me images. With a microscope and some testing, I have found this is because ACF's texture also affects deeper than the surface. THis can make fine details have almost fractures that make them more brittle.
Again this is only for very small things and does not seem to affect larger objects.
Anycubic recommends changing the ACF at 10,000 layers. In my experience, it will last about 30,000 layers, but I had to slow it down after 10,000 because I was getting a lot of print failures @@NoizieWorks
Another fantastic video for the Jupiter! Do you think the sunlu abs could perform at the same speed with the acf film? I use the elegoo feps that are sold for the Jupiter and print at 50 lift speed reliable but mostly big models or packed build plates. Then it takes like 21-26hrs for a 280mm height model to print.😂
Ow yeah, sunlu abs is going to perform great. The thicker the resin the more rest after retract you will need to ad but that's true for any fep material.
Every resin testing gauntlet since then has been printed at 150mm/min and i have tested some goopy thick boys 😅
Why would you use substandard resin AND change parameters like exposure time in between the tests??
I only changed settings on the 300mm model, all the other 7 used the same settings except for the lift speed.
Why the crap resin? To test the sheet to it's limits at 300.
If it prints successfully with crap resin the results are going to be even beter on a good resin.
Teşekkürler.
Thanks dude!
from my experience with acf. It is not as durable as nfp. I get wear on the film were it touches the vat and then get pin holes in it that leak resin. On detailed minis I do see a reduction in details. So I went back to nfep I would rather have details and have had less film failure with nfep than I did with acf
Thanks for sharing your experience bud!
isnt speeds capped by firmware? idk just wondering
Yes, a member on the jupiter group says 360 is max
He doesn't mention the orientation of the print until it is shown @ 4:52
Orientation is almost the most important thing for what you are trying to show us
True, he thinks this was the best orientation 🙂
If not, it's still a 1 to 1 comparison and the results don't lie.
love the idea, but 800 bucks to buy a roll....dammmmm
Yup, acf is crazy expensive but it saves a lot in bulk. The creator of the campaign knows this and providing just sheets isn't commercial viable in Europe sadly enough competing with china is impossible. The target is for printfarms who change sheets every week
It's a shame my anycubic has a vat with those fep with frame, I should invest in a second vat that accepts bare sheets
Is that still a thing? Damn that sounds anoying
@NoizieWorks at least on the printer I bought second hand )Anycubic phonon D2 dlp) anyway I just bought an aftermarket resin vat in which you can use normal, non framed sheets + Acf sheets
Wait! ACF + Saturn 4 ultra peeling!!! Maybe even faster???
The hole thing of the 4 ultra is to get rid of it because acf is marginally worse for details or so they claim i need to test it but if it's possible to speed up the tilting then that would be a cool test right?
@@NoizieWorks So I use resin to make mechanical use parts. ACF has turned my Halot Mage into an 'okay printer' into one that fails far less because of the reduced peel forces. Getting good flat or dimensionally accurate prints has been a pain. I believe most of that is a result of peel forces. I'm wondering if combining the two even further improves overall performance.
I do wonder if Elegoo will give us 'tilt speed controls'
@MoonWind32690 i ordered it so i will definitely test it out for you. I guess they will keep it locked because the tilt is still faster than using z axis to peel off the model.
About the flat pieces it's a combination of peelforces and resin shrinkage(warping) thats why i put so much feedback on the warping. The more stable a resin is, the more it's going to keep it's original form especially if you print flat stuff.
Worth pointing out that "ACF" is not the same as the conductive film you found. ACF is just a made up marketing name and has no connection to Anisotropic Conductive Film. There is a new one on the horizon "HCF" which I guess is supposed to get around some of the drawbacks of ACF potentially (the fact that it softens details being the biggest downside to ACF)
Yes your right but that's what i got from the manufacturer so 🤷 from what i hear it's just another rebrand like nfep
@@NoizieWorks ACF film for resin printers started with "Aorita Composite Film", everything else is BS. Aorita makes most of it, other companies' "ACF" are either re-branded Aorita ACF, or "knockoffs". It's some kind of release film laminated on to some kind of silicone-like substrate. Whatever the release film and substrate are, they aren't “Anisotropic Conductive Film”; 3DPrintingTurd made the same mistake (that's probably where the alleged "manufacturer" selling the rolls came up with that BS).
I've used Aorita ACF since March 2023, and it was available before that. I've used the same 3 sheets since then no problem, except for one that I dropped a screwdriver on and dented so I changed it.
I have the High-Definition ACF (HDF) films from Aorita (what the tool above wrongly called "HCF"), I haven't tried them but someone I know did and the results were stunning.
Keep up the good work, buddy!
@retromodernart4426 thanks bud! Sounds like it's probably a reseller if they name it wrong on there own info brochure lol
@@retromodernart4426 seriously? you're just gonna toss out insults? Who here exactly be being a tool?
For the record, "HCF" is what they are calling it, at least when speaking with printer manufacturers. There is some testing happening now for the Athena, where it is specifically referred to as "HCF".
@@NoizieWorks Hopefully Aorita will send you some HDF soon to test 🙂
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