,, I got a set of Vesra for it several years ago, I was quite unwell left the bike in the garden, rescued her a few months ago going through it, most the parts are okay, I'd had the forks rechrome done and are fine, I put so much rustoleum purple and specialist paints fuschia flake on the chassis seems to be okay, motor got wet and nasty and need a side casing leccy cover and wet got in starter, the Kickstart shaft was already gnarled so I've just ordered one.... My caliper.... has a spring clip under the white plastic ratchet part and its split metal frayed but stuck solid as far as I can see atm, I just plonked it back together made sure the new stainless allen bolts suit up okay, perfect
Thanks that's a great video. Its convinced me to dump my old bike rather than spend any more money on it, very sad but they obviously dont want them to last.
Hi Rob. I've been there... If it wasn't for some sentimental stuff attached to this bike I would probably have got rid of it a long time ago. As a working bike, as many need, it is getting costly to keep these old ones going.
Just been trying to put my front brake back together after replacing the pads on my CB100. Soooo fiddly! Gave up in the end and I will be trying to put it back together another day. Everytime I was putting the housing on, it kept pushing the pad on the disc thus making the front wheel unmovable 😣😣 All the components to the brake are in good condition and the push rod is reset back to the start so I'm now waiting on my Haynes manual to be delivered to see what I'm doing wrong 🤣🤣🤣
Hi Rick's, I feel for ya. Trying to think what the issue could be. Here's a link to the assembly drawing: www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb200t-1976-usa_model425/partslist/F++08.html#.YNY2ZvrTW9c. One thing that got me once, was not rotating the pad fully so that the pin that sticks out from the brake arm unit was not going into the hole in the pad, and so pushed into the disc when I fitted the cover??? Hope you manage to sort it.
Wonderful video. I wonder whether it's at all possible to make some NEW components? Perhaps an alternative set of rollers might make this set work? Surely it should be feasible to make some of these parts using rapid prototyping techniques? Even the metal components look like they'd be amenable to some SINTER/POWDER METALLURGY? Where you mould stuff and then heat it to weld it all together properly? Surely there are rapid prototype techniques which do just that with a laser, anyhow. Perhaps a water-jet cutter might punch out blanks which would then have to be machined to finish the finer ramps etc? It's a bloody complicated brake however you slice it. Perhaps it'd be feasible to make a FUNCTIONAL brake but without the self-correcting/adjusting function, where you'd have to adjust the cable really often and then when the cable adjustment's out you'd take the caliper cover off and tighten a nut, free up the cable adjustment & start over again? There are some wonderful period-correct star shaped cable adjusters & washers - for my daughter's "KZ440LOL" project (with disc-to-drum UP-grade) I found some stainless reproduction CB92 adjusters & for the washer on 'em I found the MX-aftermarket "STAR-JUSTER" which has the same diameter & 4-point shape to match 'em - There were also some Kwaka parts from the early H1 500 "Mach-iii" that were chromed-steel but the same shape etc. The point being you can adjust the cable tension using one hand on the fly even if you're wearing gloves! They'd be perfect for something you'd have to adjust all the damn time. But hey, if that's what it takes to make it easier to rebuild these brakes & keep 'em on the road? Obviously any replacement internals would need to be made from Aluminum, or more to the point STAINLESS steel, so as to avoid winding up as the same inevitably rusty mess as the original wound up? Myself, much as I'm very interested in complete perfect restorations for static display AND for occasional riding, when it comes to a "DAILY DRIVER" - I'd prefer to upgrade every last thing I could. Which might even mean swapping in another engine, as big as possible, into the CB200 frame - maybe even dressing up a much later model AS a CB200? But as for the BRAKE, I would wish to retain a cable actuated caliper but for a dual disc and/or bigger discs - not to mention on a thicker fork and alloy rims etc! If this all sounds ridiculous, check out my "CB900K0 Bol Bomber" project to see the lengths I'm willing to go to - albeit, having progressed rather slowly having lost the project to a house-fire once already ... and if I'm being honest, my physical handicap has gotten in the way - But yeah, ANYWAY, a thicker fork & bigger dual discs. So - I'll leave all of THAT up to your imagination but here are a few suggestions as to how you might actuate that more powerful brake system with a CABLE: Firstly, look to the Kwaka Z1R, or early R75/6 Beemers iirc but the Z1R is a better system - They use a short cable to a remote master-cylinder under the top yoke, and from thenceforth it's all hydraulic ... and very ordinary & boring! Ha-ha. So - if THAT'S not enough for your CB200 loving sensibilities? There are calipers on some of the Yam ... nope - SUZUKI small-bore QUADS, believe it or not - which are cable actuated! Iirc they used a DRUM on each rear wheel, and this is what's interesting too, is the foot pedal actually actuates (actively, alliterating as an author always .... agh!) BOTH of the brakes, front and rear - it's an ABS system! The calipers look like a single piston type, and iirc they might even be of a floating type - It's just that I don't recall the exact MODEL of quad - iirc it's a 175cc or 185cc possibly the latter. Designation "IT185" seems to ring true, but you'd need to dig further to hit the mark - though I'm pretty much certain the MARQUE in question would be Suzucchini Sukiyaki, Suzy Q' baby - But either way - YEAH, this pair of QUAD calipers would require building two caliper-hanger brackets for these floating calipers, and definitely use the same pedal pivot or similar set-up for the linked all-wheel-brake-system! I'm picturing the stock CB200 rear drum, and frame, and gas-tank & seat-pan plus it's cover, cut-down rear fender etc - some 18" alloy rims which I happen to already have kicking around maybe a WM2 1.85x18" front & WM3 2.15x18" rear? And if at all possible, shoe-horn a CB360 or better yet CB400N/CB450SC engine into the frame? For a front hub, well it might be a conventional Honda SOHC-4 SIX-bolt type, perhaps even the conventional GL1000 dual 276mm set-up, OR another pair of 276mm diameter, using 'embiggened' outer rings on the CB350F/CB400F center-carriers - OR if you wanted the same look, there's a KWAKA rear disc in 295mm-ish on the rear end of the KZ750B/KZ1000A conical/composite (stuck together with EPOXY! Ugh.) conical wire-spoke rear disc hub - It's a one-piece disc with the same round holes & 4-bolt mounting - maybe a couple of crappy ones could be skimmed down thin for weight reduction? I'd really rather stick to the Honda stuff. But yeah, paint the calipers black, shape 'em with a file to make 'em look as much as possible like the OEM CB200 front calipers? As for the FORK? Rig 'em up to the 35mm/37mm/39mm fork from '77-'78 CB750F2, CBX1000, CB900FZ etc or 37mm version off the '82 CB750F etc, the 39mm off the '81-'82 CBX1050 Pro-Link or CB900FC or late GL1000 early GL1100 etc etc - the 35mm version has the ridge down the front & rear but the 37mm is smooth but the POINT being, they require a 2-bolt flat plate caliper mounting bracket which SHOULD be compatible with the ... was it "IT185" or something like that? And I mentioned a CABLE-ACTUATED HYDRAULIC method - for the front master-cylinder under the top-yoke, I'd skip the Kwaka Z1R unit, stay the hell away from the Beemer unit (even on the Beemer itself, it's robbing tank capacity) they're both difficult to mount - But the BREMBO version isn't so bad - not the one with the integral reservoir but rather the later year type off the new California 1100 etc, with the remote reservoir? Yeah, you could mount THAT thing just about anywhere 'cause it's just got two lugs & they're parallel unlike the Z1R unit which has diagonal lugs. You could mount it low on the lower yoke & hang the reservoir from the top yoke, and it should flow just fine. Obviously, in this instance you'd pair up the standard single-puck '77-'81/'80 calipers which would require a custom bracket if you wanted to go bigger than 276mm diameter, say dual-296mm? You'd have to fight ME for the last "CB750P7-ii" front HUB on the planet, but if you did the 5-bolt mounting would give you the conventional 9-rivet SOHC-4 CB750K rotors in '78 CB750A Hondamatic 5-bolt guise AND all of the interesting options from DOHC-4 including the single-piece dished 296mm discs off the '81 CB1100RB only but which is now available in replica form via Metalgear Auistralia - There are also plenty of options for rebuilt rotors whether stainless-steel OR cast-iron if you look around the SOHC-4 services, a guy on eBay doing custom Cast-Iron replacements for the 9-rivet carriers whom I'd suspect would rebuild the 6-rivet 260mm rotors out to 276mm & beyond - Now PERSONALLY, I like the idea of the non-hydraulic calipers and using the dual CABLE system - But rather than swapping that ... "IT185"? ... front perch, which is very similar to the Suzuki GT550J/GT750J 4LS drum's double-cable brake perch - very similar in fact but it doesn't have a brake light switch - I'd RATHER use a conventional CB200 cable perch with a cable SPLITTER of the Yamaha TZ type - but here's the thing there's ALSO a fugly lil' PLASTIC cable-splitter available for something like five or ten bucks, from some of these early small-displacement QUAD brakes! If you hid the splitter down in behind the headlight bucket or between the yokes etc, you could use the fugly stuff. Though I suppose you could look at the thing just like the Yam' TZ version, just to show off how you did the same job but on the cheap-like-borscht shoe-string budget! Could be pretty friggin' AWESOME, imho. Maybe even dress up a bigger bike as a CB200, using the same plastic tank pad only mounted onto a CB750F1/CB750F2 SOHC-4 gas-tank? Or similar? Use the biggest SOHC-2 Honda engine from that period, such as CB450SC or the CMX450 "Rebel-450" only swap out the FRAME to something less cruiser-esque / "muscle-bike" stepped-seat style? Just to make it easier to fit the 18" rear wheel, more upright rake angle type of fork, and of course the gas-tank & seat etc - Though I DO like some of the chopperette/cruiser-esque models' rear FENDERS - I've used a cut-down KZ440LTD rear fender on my "CB900K0 Bol Bomber"d project, 'cause of it's upturned curled "wired" style of edge or lip. Can't get that from a CB750KZ/'KA/'KB/'KC (& the Sunshine Band) OR CB750C rear fender! Just sayin' though, when it comes to the REAL parts, when they're this rare and difficult to get 'em working properly, I should think whatever's left and still in working condition, should be relegated to the MUSEUMS and serious collectors who'll keep these bikes out of the rain etc. Somebody who if they DID take the bike out for a ride in the wet & dirt, would have the good sense to take the whole brake apart clean it & rebuild it each and every time it got wet. Otherwise, how many years have you GOT with a system such as this? Honestly, I just feel they should be preserved for history, as an educational tool for the young motorcycle designers & other engineers who are just coming up! As for what you're putting out there onto the street, I'm sayin' upgrade everything especially the brakes, commensurate with the degree that the TRAFFIC is so much worse than it was in the early '70s. Beef it all up. But more to the point, do so with parts that you can support & replace!
Hi there. If you can't get the internal works out... I would first soak it in "petrol" to remove all grease and clean off any dirt, then inspect for corrosion - remove any i find. It still not free, i would soak again but in an ultrasonic cleaner. Then if still stuck I would start to use gentle percussive force (gently hitting with a hanner) to try and shck it free. Hope this helps. Good luck.
Thank you! I brought the assembly to my fathers land and we plan to take it apart and fix a piece. At this point it might all be experimental…..I’ll keep you posted
You can braze some bronze rod on the end of that nub or tig a dime or two next to it on a flat surface fusing it to the surface then cut the scrap piece off grind it to shape done...what ever you do don't throw that away...
Hi Robert Thanks for the comment. Good point suggestion ref repairing the tab on the thrust plate. No worries I still have it all, I don't throw much away as you never know what you can fix in the future. G
Hi John. Not sure about the 125. A quick online search make me thing it may be but I don't know the model to be sure. I would check out CMS to see if you can find your model there: www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb125_model126/Good luck...
Hello, I could fix my brake arm CB 125s, I made new springs and small springs that adjust the ratchet also, but I need a diagram of the arm to make a tutorial, if you had you would appreciate. Tom if you want send me a message and see how I can help.
How did you make the spring parts? I've been trying find someone who can make these parts for years. I have stripped these down and can replace all the bearings and thrust plates.
Thank you!!! This is the 1st video I've found covering ancient Honda mechanical disc brakes
,, I got a set of Vesra for it several years ago, I was quite unwell left the bike in the garden, rescued her a few months ago going through it, most the parts are okay, I'd had the forks rechrome done and are fine, I put so much rustoleum purple and specialist paints fuschia flake on the chassis seems to be okay, motor got wet and nasty and need a side casing leccy cover and wet got in starter, the Kickstart shaft was already gnarled so I've just ordered one.... My caliper.... has a spring clip under the white plastic ratchet part and its split metal frayed but stuck solid as far as I can see atm, I just plonked it back together made sure the new stainless allen bolts suit up okay, perfect
Oh yeh way cool so that split metal is the ratchet spring, sorted, thanks chap! 🙃
Great video thank you. Just happen to have 1974 CB200 and this is exactly what I needed to see. Very useful!!!
Glad the vid was of use. Thanks for the comment.
Thanks that's a great video. Its convinced me to dump my old bike rather than spend any more money on it, very sad but they obviously dont want them to last.
Hi Rob. I've been there... If it wasn't for some sentimental stuff attached to this bike I would probably have got rid of it a long time ago. As a working bike, as many need, it is getting costly to keep these old ones going.
Just been trying to put my front brake back together after replacing the pads on my CB100.
Soooo fiddly! Gave up in the end and I will be trying to put it back together another day. Everytime I was putting the housing on, it kept pushing the pad on the disc thus making the front wheel unmovable 😣😣
All the components to the brake are in good condition and the push rod is reset back to the start so I'm now waiting on my Haynes manual to be delivered to see what I'm doing wrong 🤣🤣🤣
Hi Rick's, I feel for ya. Trying to think what the issue could be. Here's a link to the assembly drawing: www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb200t-1976-usa_model425/partslist/F++08.html#.YNY2ZvrTW9c.
One thing that got me once, was not rotating the pad fully so that the pin that sticks out from the brake arm unit was not going into the hole in the pad, and so pushed into the disc when I fitted the cover??? Hope you manage to sort it.
Thanks. Very very useful.
thanks for the helpful video!
Wonderful video. I wonder whether it's at all possible to make some NEW components? Perhaps an alternative set of rollers might make this set work? Surely it should be feasible to make some of these parts using rapid prototyping techniques? Even the metal components look like they'd be amenable to some SINTER/POWDER METALLURGY? Where you mould stuff and then heat it to weld it all together properly? Surely there are rapid prototype techniques which do just that with a laser, anyhow. Perhaps a water-jet cutter might punch out blanks which would then have to be machined to finish the finer ramps etc? It's a bloody complicated brake however you slice it.
Perhaps it'd be feasible to make a FUNCTIONAL brake but without the self-correcting/adjusting function, where you'd have to adjust the cable really often and then when the cable adjustment's out you'd take the caliper cover off and tighten a nut, free up the cable adjustment & start over again? There are some wonderful period-correct star shaped cable adjusters & washers - for my daughter's "KZ440LOL" project (with disc-to-drum UP-grade) I found some stainless reproduction CB92 adjusters & for the washer on 'em I found the MX-aftermarket "STAR-JUSTER" which has the same diameter & 4-point shape to match 'em - There were also some Kwaka parts from the early H1 500 "Mach-iii" that were chromed-steel but the same shape etc. The point being you can adjust the cable tension using one hand on the fly even if you're wearing gloves! They'd be perfect for something you'd have to adjust all the damn time. But hey, if that's what it takes to make it easier to rebuild these brakes & keep 'em on the road? Obviously any replacement internals would need to be made from Aluminum, or more to the point STAINLESS steel, so as to avoid winding up as the same inevitably rusty mess as the original wound up?
Myself, much as I'm very interested in complete perfect restorations for static display AND for occasional riding, when it comes to a "DAILY DRIVER" - I'd prefer to upgrade every last thing I could. Which might even mean swapping in another engine, as big as possible, into the CB200 frame - maybe even dressing up a much later model AS a CB200?
But as for the BRAKE, I would wish to retain a cable actuated caliper but for a dual disc and/or bigger discs - not to mention on a thicker fork and alloy rims etc! If this all sounds ridiculous, check out my "CB900K0 Bol Bomber" project to see the lengths I'm willing to go to - albeit, having progressed rather slowly having lost the project to a house-fire once already ... and if I'm being honest, my physical handicap has gotten in the way - But yeah, ANYWAY, a thicker fork & bigger dual discs.
So - I'll leave all of THAT up to your imagination but here are a few suggestions as to how you might actuate that more powerful brake system with a CABLE:
Firstly, look to the Kwaka Z1R, or early R75/6 Beemers iirc but the Z1R is a better system - They use a short cable to a remote master-cylinder under the top yoke, and from thenceforth it's all hydraulic ... and very ordinary & boring! Ha-ha.
So - if THAT'S not enough for your CB200 loving sensibilities? There are calipers on some of the Yam ... nope - SUZUKI small-bore QUADS, believe it or not - which are cable actuated! Iirc they used a DRUM on each rear wheel, and this is what's interesting too, is the foot pedal actually actuates (actively, alliterating as an author always .... agh!) BOTH of the brakes, front and rear - it's an ABS system!
The calipers look like a single piston type, and iirc they might even be of a floating type - It's just that I don't recall the exact MODEL of quad - iirc it's a 175cc or 185cc possibly the latter. Designation "IT185" seems to ring true, but you'd need to dig further to hit the mark - though I'm pretty much certain the MARQUE in question would be Suzucchini Sukiyaki, Suzy Q' baby -
But either way - YEAH, this pair of QUAD calipers would require building two caliper-hanger brackets for these floating calipers, and definitely use the same pedal pivot or similar set-up for the linked all-wheel-brake-system!
I'm picturing the stock CB200 rear drum, and frame, and gas-tank & seat-pan plus it's cover, cut-down rear fender etc - some 18" alloy rims which I happen to already have kicking around maybe a WM2 1.85x18" front & WM3 2.15x18" rear? And if at all possible, shoe-horn a CB360 or better yet CB400N/CB450SC engine into the frame?
For a front hub, well it might be a conventional Honda SOHC-4 SIX-bolt type, perhaps even the conventional GL1000 dual 276mm set-up, OR another pair of 276mm diameter, using 'embiggened' outer rings on the CB350F/CB400F center-carriers - OR if you wanted the same look, there's a KWAKA rear disc in 295mm-ish on the rear end of the KZ750B/KZ1000A conical/composite (stuck together with EPOXY! Ugh.) conical wire-spoke rear disc hub - It's a one-piece disc with the same round holes & 4-bolt mounting - maybe a couple of crappy ones could be skimmed down thin for weight reduction? I'd really rather stick to the Honda stuff. But yeah, paint the calipers black, shape 'em with a file to make 'em look as much as possible like the OEM CB200 front calipers?
As for the FORK? Rig 'em up to the 35mm/37mm/39mm fork from '77-'78 CB750F2, CBX1000, CB900FZ etc or 37mm version off the '82 CB750F etc, the 39mm off the '81-'82 CBX1050 Pro-Link or CB900FC or late GL1000 early GL1100 etc etc - the 35mm version has the ridge down the front & rear but the 37mm is smooth but the POINT being, they require a 2-bolt flat plate caliper mounting bracket which SHOULD be compatible with the ... was it "IT185" or something like that?
And I mentioned a CABLE-ACTUATED HYDRAULIC method - for the front master-cylinder under the top-yoke, I'd skip the Kwaka Z1R unit, stay the hell away from the Beemer unit (even on the Beemer itself, it's robbing tank capacity) they're both difficult to mount - But the BREMBO version isn't so bad - not the one with the integral reservoir but rather the later year type off the new California 1100 etc, with the remote reservoir? Yeah, you could mount THAT thing just about anywhere 'cause it's just got two lugs & they're parallel unlike the Z1R unit which has diagonal lugs. You could mount it low on the lower yoke & hang the reservoir from the top yoke, and it should flow just fine. Obviously, in this instance you'd pair up the standard single-puck '77-'81/'80 calipers which would require a custom bracket if you wanted to go bigger than 276mm diameter, say dual-296mm?
You'd have to fight ME for the last "CB750P7-ii" front HUB on the planet, but if you did the 5-bolt mounting would give you the conventional 9-rivet SOHC-4 CB750K rotors in '78 CB750A Hondamatic 5-bolt guise AND all of the interesting options from DOHC-4 including the single-piece dished 296mm discs off the '81 CB1100RB only but which is now available in replica form via Metalgear Auistralia - There are also plenty of options for rebuilt rotors whether stainless-steel OR cast-iron if you look around the SOHC-4 services, a guy on eBay doing custom Cast-Iron replacements for the 9-rivet carriers whom I'd suspect would rebuild the 6-rivet 260mm rotors out to 276mm & beyond -
Now PERSONALLY, I like the idea of the non-hydraulic calipers and using the dual CABLE system - But rather than swapping that ... "IT185"? ... front perch, which is very similar to the Suzuki GT550J/GT750J 4LS drum's double-cable brake perch - very similar in fact but it doesn't have a brake light switch - I'd RATHER use a conventional CB200 cable perch with a cable SPLITTER of the Yamaha TZ type - but here's the thing there's ALSO a fugly lil' PLASTIC cable-splitter available for something like five or ten bucks, from some of these early small-displacement QUAD brakes! If you hid the splitter down in behind the headlight bucket or between the yokes etc, you could use the fugly stuff. Though I suppose you could look at the thing just like the Yam' TZ version, just to show off how you did the same job but on the cheap-like-borscht shoe-string budget!
Could be pretty friggin' AWESOME, imho. Maybe even dress up a bigger bike as a CB200, using the same plastic tank pad only mounted onto a CB750F1/CB750F2 SOHC-4 gas-tank? Or similar? Use the biggest SOHC-2 Honda engine from that period, such as CB450SC or the CMX450 "Rebel-450" only swap out the FRAME to something less cruiser-esque / "muscle-bike" stepped-seat style? Just to make it easier to fit the 18" rear wheel, more upright rake angle type of fork, and of course the gas-tank & seat etc -
Though I DO like some of the chopperette/cruiser-esque models' rear FENDERS - I've used a cut-down KZ440LTD rear fender on my "CB900K0 Bol Bomber"d project, 'cause of it's upturned curled "wired" style of edge or lip. Can't get that from a CB750KZ/'KA/'KB/'KC (& the Sunshine Band) OR CB750C rear fender!
Just sayin' though, when it comes to the REAL parts, when they're this rare and difficult to get 'em working properly, I should think whatever's left and still in working condition, should be relegated to the MUSEUMS and serious collectors who'll keep these bikes out of the rain etc. Somebody who if they DID take the bike out for a ride in the wet & dirt, would have the good sense to take the whole brake apart clean it & rebuild it each and every time it got wet. Otherwise, how many years have you GOT with a system such as this? Honestly, I just feel they should be preserved for history, as an educational tool for the young motorcycle designers & other engineers who are just coming up!
As for what you're putting out there onto the street, I'm sayin' upgrade everything especially the brakes, commensurate with the degree that the TRAFFIC is so much worse than it was in the early '70s. Beef it all up. But more to the point, do so with parts that you can support & replace!
Hey!!! This video is amazing….how do I get the mechanism OUT of the outer housing? Mine will not come out, tips please…….😢
Hi there. If you can't get the internal works out... I would first soak it in "petrol" to remove all grease and clean off any dirt, then inspect for corrosion - remove any i find. It still not free, i would soak again but in an ultrasonic cleaner. Then if still stuck I would start to use gentle percussive force (gently hitting with a hanner) to try and shck it free. Hope this helps. Good luck.
Thank you! I brought the assembly to my fathers land and we plan to take it apart and fix a piece. At this point it might all be experimental…..I’ll keep you posted
You can braze some bronze rod on the end of that nub or tig a dime or two next to it on a flat surface fusing it to the surface then cut the scrap piece off grind it to shape done...what ever you do don't throw that away...
Hi Robert
Thanks for the comment. Good point suggestion ref repairing the tab on the thrust plate. No worries I still have it all, I don't throw much away as you never know what you can fix in the future.
G
Any idea if there is a "fix" for a broken spring, the one the keeps the plastic gear turning only one way?
Anyone know if those thrust plates are available? mine was broken too!
😂 Mines got a bird nest in
Is this unit different to the one missing on my 1980 cb 125 n that mounts behind the front fork ?
Hi John. Not sure about the 125. A quick online search make me thing it may be but I don't know the model to be sure. I would check out CMS to see if you can find your model there: www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb125_model126/Good luck...
Hello, I could fix my brake arm CB 125s, I made new springs and small springs that adjust the ratchet also, but I need a diagram of the arm to make a tutorial, if you had you would appreciate.
Tom if you want send me a message and see how I can help.
How did you make the spring parts? I've been trying find someone who can make these parts for years. I have stripped these down and can replace all the bearings and thrust plates.