VR6 Block And Bearing Inspection ~ White Wookie
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 18 окт 2024
- Today on the White Wookie build, we inspect the bottom end of the VR6 engine. The oil pump, oil pan, and connecting rod bearing are removed and inspected. Sadly I find something I am not happy about, and will lead to more parts to replace.
Blog post ~ humblemechanic....
EUROWISE VR6 ENGINE STAND ADAPTER ~ shop.eurowise.c...
Join me today as we:
~Mount the Eurowise engine stand adaptor
~Remove the VR6 oil pan
~Remove the VR6 oil pump
~Remove and inspect VR6 connecting rod bearings
~The sadness that I found
~What comes next
~Hand Tools used • Sonic Tools S10 Toolbo...
~ Impact Drive amzn.to/2gvTJxt
~And more
Humble Mechanic Podcasts
• The Humble Mechanic Po...
Project White Wookie ~ MK3 GTI Videos
• MK3 VR6 GTI Project Car
Failed VW parts videos
• How VW Parts Fail
Tool and Product Reviews
• Tool and Product Reviews
How To videos
• How To Fix Your Car
MK1 VR6 Swap Videos
• VR6 Engine Swap MK1 Ca...
Be sure to follow me at:
The Blog
humblemechanic.com
INSTAGRAM
/ humblemechanic
FACEBOOK
/ humblemechanic
TWITTER
/ humblemechanic
GOOD STUFF ON AMAZON
goo.gl/5304Qw (affiliate)
Hi Charles. I don't own a VW but videos like this that include commentary is helpful for any engine project. I sure appreciate your videos and the time you spend to respond.
+wyattoneable thanks so much. :)
The cool thing is you get to take a bad situation and turn it into a good situation by filming more videos.
Oil pumps of the VR6 engine you ALWAYS replace!!!! Except if it's a '96 model engine. That was when VW finally noticed WHY the timing chains of many VR6s ripped apart. 'Cause the old olil pump had a construction flaw with it's pressure valve, rising the oil pressure on higher revs way too high. As a result, the chain tensioner puts too much stress on the cain. Only oil pumps from '96 and later have their pressure valve with a different design. Corrado VR6 (2.9) for ex. always has the old oil pump! I am German (as you can tell by my lousy English) and I did quite a lot VR6 engines
Right on Doc! That is a small price to pay for engine protection. Also great English. I would have never known if you did say. Cheers!!!
wanna know which model you got? Old model: back cover of the pressure cylinder is screwed on. New model: back cover is "press fitted", so no one can see VW found out about their own mistake...
Doc Sinclair Schimmel performance makes a maual chain adjuster. Thier was a guide update as well as a single chain change. Makes me wonder though. Maybe a r32 oil pump is a good route.(shallow pan)
Interesting my old timing chain rails were all snapped and indented badly. In the book 101PSI is the max allowable pressure, I did get an oil pressure gauge that reads 150 psi to keep an eye on it.
I ended up smashing the oil pan which dented the oil pump and bent the oil pump driveshaft! It's making a unhappy tapping sound in the bottom, and I'm hoping that is just the driveshaft vibrating around. Will find out on replacement.
Better replace than regret.... It's never fun but better avoid the possibility of disaster and have the peace of mind
Just watching through this series now. Really enjoying it.
I hate to bring on bad luck, but in a way I'm kinda glad there was that one bad bearing. Not only does it show how little damage is needed before a bearing is considered not worth the risk of reusing, but in terms of being educational, this means we get to see you measuring crank thrust, using plastigage, feeler gauges, maybe a micrometer, oh my... *pauses for a cold shower* :-P Awesome series on the Wookie! :-)
Yeh - thanks for sharing. Just pulled the pistons out of 3vzfe after spending a week cleaning the tops. Rings were a mess. Next time I'd pull the pistons then clean & re ring. Hard to pull engine apart and just like do the HG. again thanks 4 sharing.
Hello Charles, You should use a center punch to mark your bearing caps. That way your paint marks will not get washed off when you clean all your parts. Cheers.
+Mark Thomas that's a good idea. It's one that I may do before sending the parts off. Initially this was going to be a simple check. Bummer that it ends up being more haha
Thank you for the video! Last year I had my engine "rebuilt" the engineer told me, the bearings still look ok (and I could clearly see the coppery-layer already on every bottom half of them) sooo I hope you are going to do the videos regarding swapping the bearings and measuring and etc? That'd be so cool :)
I agree that replacing the bearings is the right way to go. Had the underside of the block had less carbon I would have just sent the crank into the machine shop and put new bearings and bolts in since the piston walls looked fine. Given what you found I think you made the best decision.
I like how you works, you take your time and very well organized
I would not expect anything going wrong. I too want neglect those marks. Good Luck Don I love that engine
Hi Charles
I did only the bearings and piston rings. The hone was good, but i did not want to spend too much in the machine shop, to polish the crank and so on.
I bought all the STD sizes, but maybe the rings one size over to do the gapping.
One time when I was doing some maintenance on the bottom end of a 1976 Kawasaki KZ 900 motorcycle I disassembled the oil pump for inspection and found no problems, the bike didn't have high mileage. I did notice that the clearance between the side of the rotating oil pump lobes and the housing seemed a little excessive. I lapped off enough material on the gasket mating surface to reduce the clearance and the oil leakage around the lobes to a better amount. The end result was that my idling oil pressure rose almost 25%. Roughing up the inner and outer surfaces of the aluminum oil pan with longitudinal scratches from a coarse wire brush and having the entire surface anodized flat black helped in oil heat dissipation.
If I had it all disassembled like you have and I'd come across a bearing with any signs of wear, for example the wear you saw on the first connecting rod bearing cap, I would replace all of them anyway (and pull the main bearing caps too). I'm a motorcycle master mechanic though.
I know this project is 'done & dusted'; I still appreciate it as I have to do the same with my MG PA 1934!! cross fingers what I meet; will follow the rest of your series!
Thanks. And no project is ever done!
Great vid. Thanks for showing us your techniques and your thought process.
Many people use plastigage when inspecting bearings. It was designed to measure bearing wear, but it was not ideal for measuring clearances in a new or rebuilt engine.
16:50 I have heard that it is wise to use ARP bolts or studs to replace OEM fasteners in the VR6.
I like watching youtube videos about the VR6 engine because I like the design, and because I will someday buy a Winnebago Rialta Eurovan VR6.
Great video. Thanks for sharing your expertise!
Always sucks when you find unexpected wear like that... On the upside, now you've got the opportunity to make things right! It's sort of a blessing in a disguise, really. If the block looks like that inside, what do your rings look like? No amount of top-down soaking will clean decades of carbon out of the rings. :]
Threw you a big ol' Thumbs Up 'cause I know that feeling all too well! Cheerin' for ya, Charles!
+rhkips hahaha thank you :)
+rhkips the rings are probably going to be rough. I'll be replacing them for sure
i sor one will be looking forward to the indepth series on the engine instead of it is what it is go for better safe than stranded. more thumbs up to come and thanks
Sometimes you can chase bolt holes by simply grinding/filing a flat on two opposite sides of the end of a bolt. Works great in a bind. Edit; I am talking in relation to the engine stand bolts.
1:08 good suggestion for a thread chaser
watching this makes me want a mk4 and enough money to have you rebuild it. if for no other reason than it might wind up on youtube and there would be a super enjoyable video.
Better to know now rather than cry at the side of the race track. I'm just going to wing it on my VR6 build! I think my regular maintenance has been better
When I saw the wear on the bearings and you were putting them back I almost lost faith in you. LOL
I'm sure when you saw the oil sludge in the pan/block you could guess what was waiting under those bearing caps.
Are you going to bore the block and make it a proper 2.9L or 3.0L?
I put an Eurospec ABA bottom end into my '86 GTI and you would be surprised how you can actually feel 200cc.
Quick question, I have no experience at all with engine building, just curious, aren't the bearings cheap? What not just automatically replace them since they're so incredibly important? Also you seem to take a lot of effort to be sure you do a great job, thanks for being a great technician. Also you said numerous times there was carbon buildup, and you blamed poor maintenance, I'd like to know, what exactly causes this? Is it the oil or something else, and why is carbon buildup bad exactly. Thanks again!
Fyi diesel in air sprayer works good to clean a block use it on in the frame rebuild on big trucks all the time
6 bolts holding the motor.. cheeze. I had a fully built 8cyl with the whole belt drive stuff bolted on with 3 old headbolts holding it to the stand,. After i took it off all 3 bolts were bent 30° down.. lol. Squeeked by on thatn..
i get a lil over the top on my undoing in stages, first 3 cracks are less than a quarter turn.
What do you mean when you say "the engine was not well maintained?" Like what qualifies as good vs. poor engine maintenance? I'm a big ol' noob to automotive care but I'm trying to change that and do what I can to keep my own cars running smooth. Internet experts I'm open to your answers , as well. Thanks for the great videos!
+David Zamora it appears that very little maintenance was performed. Poor oil changes, pst due for spark plugs that kind of thing
HumbleMechanic thnx for the reply!
nice, happy for a wookie vid.
To be honest, I know it's an extra expense but I would have replaced the main and big end bearings regardless. It's a lot easier to replace now than a few thousand miles down the road if and when they finally crap out. I'd also consider replacing the piston rings, unless they really are well within spec when checked.
Question,
If your refreshing the engine why wouldn't you hone and use new rings as it wouldn't be a massive expense and you could still do it all in your shop
Bearing looks like when somebody change the oil they got a little dirt in the oil filter that's why you got to be careful and changing oil never let any dirt get down the center hold oil filter or you have bearing damage maybe a noisy lifter
hey Charles, what's the deal with these crankshafts. When they show any damage VW recommends that they be replaced. Can these crankshafts be grinded by a machine shop? I don't see oversized bearings being sold for this engine.
+Anthony Garcia yeah I don't think anyone makes off OEM sizes.
I'll probably just have this polished
Hi Charles,
Is that a 1/4" cordless impact that you're running a 3/8" adapter on then a 3/8" non impact socket?
Also a long thin passage for oil in an engine is a gallery, not a galley.
Keep up the great work. 👎 (thumbs up from down under)
Darryl
you should make a video of how you started out in the field and made your way up to today
+Denis Stranjina I think I wine over that in this video.
ruclips.net/video/xjt3BBqMaHk/видео.html
Did he look thru the crank to the bearings inside the block?
thank you so much for this video. ive been needing this.
Hey Charles. Can I reuse my connecting rods if they are in good condition? I’m charging my piston rings but want to do a cheap job for now as I’m going to do an engine swap. However I’m short a few component (1.8t swap so I need 02j or 02a transmission and intercooler piping). So Im doing a cheap “rebuild”.
Can you give a discription of that marker you were using so I can purchase one thanks!
I have a question for you? It is my first time with VR6 97 Jetta, you can change the bearings without disassembling the motor can be done from the crankcase?
Thank you greetings, Davis from Costa Rica.
Hello. Long time fan. I have the head off of my 12v and I noticed that the coolant passages are full of rust. Is it possible to flush this out before I install the rebuilt head? I dont want to contaminate my head and new radiator. Thank you!
Too bad you didn't show the main bearing inspection :( Still, thumbs up for a very informative and high quality video. Thank you.
Awesome series, helping me so much with my Corrado build. Just wondering , what made you decide to go full rebuild at this point and not just do the rod bearings and move on? Was it because the rest of it was probably worn as well? I'm a DIYer so interested 😉
I'm trying to figure out what bearing size I need. I had a bearing spin in me. But cap and crank is still good. I noticed your caps in this video have a stamp 41 on them mine has 51. Does that mean anything?
Have you filed a grove or two into a bolt to make a thread chaser?
You talk about maintaining the engine. Do you know how many miles are on it? Maybe just a long life engine?
TheMTrider16 Sounds like a good idea. Does it have to be a deep groove?
+TheMTrider16 the engine has about 130k miles. No need to use a bolt as a thread chaser. I have all the chasers I'll need for this engine(I think anyway).
Not a bad idea as long as the threads on the bolt were perfect
Andrew Thompson - Not sure. It was just a tidbit I filed away after talking with a mechanic. It was used in a remote area when the proper tool wasn't available.
Holy awesome sauce! where did the orange magnetic tray come from?? Need some of those in my arsenal
+Kyle Burns its blue point
seafoam the block and fuel system and you'll be good to go. It looks like the owner didn't change the oil often enough but nothing too major
Great video Charles, this gives me insight i will hopefully soon use. What kind of marking pen was that?
You mention that you dont have to worry about the carbon crap, now th emachine shop will take care of it. But how would you remove it, if you had to do it yourself?
I would probably have the engine facing up(tops of pistons facing the ceiling) and remove it similar to how I did the pistons. Not sure it will work as well, but I Would try it.
How do you feel about oil additives such as marvel mystery oil that claims to clean and remove some the carbon build up?
i know the bearing you touched is bad anyway, but touching the bearings with bare hands can cause damage due to lubrication deflection
I just went thru my bottom end on my Audi 200 2.2 and found that i had the same issues with the crank bearings. Sad stuff.
Holds oil pan says this is a twelve valve. My brain itches.
+James Schrumm haha I think that was in reply to someone on FB live.
I thought it was kinda funny.
Great video!!!
Did your Eurowise engine stand adapter come with the hardware? Just curious cause mine didn't, but their site says it's included. It's an OK piece, but I think they focused more on the logo than the welds and mount holes.The mount holes on mine are not round and look torched by hand instead of machined.
Mine did come with hardware. Hate that yours didn't fit right. Mine was no problem at all.
Have you called them and let them know?
I hit them up through email cause I got it late last night. I just picked up some hardware, and while it mounts to the block fine, it doesn't mount to my Harbor Freight stand. The gussets are too long and allow for no further adjustment to line up the lock pin hole, which is about 1/2" off when comparing measurements to the adapter the stand came with. Would have been better if they welded the pipe through the plate on both sides and then no gussets would be needed.
Keep up the good videos, have a question for you though. How much required change would be needed to drop a 3.6L in place of a 2.8L?
Very little. Wiring harness, a few tweaks and possibly some clearance issues with hood. But mostly drops in
have you herd of SMYTH PERFORMANCE people? you should look into the UTE KIT . JETTA , GOLF to a small pickup truck and done clean! Dano 11/21/16
Hey I have a quick question for you regarding that Milwuakee Impact you got there, I think I have the same one if it's the expensive $200 or so one, its like the best one you can get at the big box stores, think I got mine at HD, anyway, I wanted to ask you what bits you use? I can't find any 1/4" hex to socket adapters that I don't bust, looked like you had a nice long one on there too, I bust the shit out of even the short ones unless I keep it on the "2" setting. "3" is a gamble and breaks stuff on me all the time.
Do you change pistons or do you reuse them?
Hey Charles, can i Just get under the car, take off the caps and do some inspection?
+Aliã Bianco you kind of can. You'll have to remove the oil pan and oil pump first.
Will you be having the crank polished as well? or just cleaned and new bearings?
+RamckeWoW yeah I'm planned on having it polished.
Hi will you change all the bearings as matter of course.
+Peter Froud yep. All Rod and main bearings
Ouch fair play . Just a thought will you have to get the crank ground a touch .
Thanks for the vid
Sorry about what you found, but if you're planning on keeping the car, I'm sure you have to fix it. You don't do half-ass work, so I know you could never just overlook it and hope for the best like so many others might do.
I like the marker. where can I get it?
Victor Alvarado walmart
German manufacturers always like to be differwent and use those dam triple square bolts like on the main bearing caps.... just more tools to buy.
When you're done restoring it you should put it on a dyno.
+iiBetrayforAR I will. I really wish I would have done a few runs before hand
so the rings weren't damaged?
Charles what's your opinion on this. So I undid the factory conrod bolts, installed and torqued ARP bolts, wondering if my bearings are going to suffer from this now?
Probably not. Did you inspect them?
No as the post I read said do one at a time, ahh well I'll see what happens
+Josh Mustillo you’ll probably be fine.
Okay sweet thanks
out of interest what's your favourite non vw (vag) car Charles ?
+david farrell tighe right now I'm finding myself loving May generations of air cooled 911s
that dont count that like vw cousin lol
+Martin Skoda nice!! I like Subies. I'm not a huge STI fan. I get excited about driving them, but I'm always underwhelmed.
nice!
labeling bearing caps with a marker ? I can see new parts cleaned and ready to assemble but take a ride to harbor freight and get a number stamp kit for $3.00 and stamp everything prior to tear down only time you dont stanp the parts is when doing a oem historical restoration in which case use a wire tie or zip ties with labels so as not mark up the parts
used a marker once 20 years ago and when cleaning the parts in parts washer the marker washed off .... that was way back when it was easier to grab another $20 chevy 350 core then to have the block sent off and line honed cause the caps were unable to be reinstalled in correct order.
This was just step one of the process. :)
How much does it cost to send your engine block in to have it redone?
I spent $150!maybe. I don’t think it was even that much
what was scoring the bearing? i didn't see the corresponding scoring on the shaft end?
+empty tomb I never found the exact failure. It was scored right where the oil passage on the crank is. I'll know more once the crank is out.
The dry, cooked oil is known as coke, as in oil coking not carbon.
!!!!!!vr6-turbo!!!!!!
better to find a bad bearing when its already apart rather than having it send metal throughout all the bearings or worse, when its scattered across the road. lol
Yeah around the time he started tearing this down I spun a bearing in my 06 eclipse and have since bought a new engine, the crank was out of round and 12 thousands of material was ground away and thrown through the bottom end. Not fun and definitely wish I could have caught it like Charles did in this video. On top of that the rod which was forged steel had been bent out of round as well, I'm not even sure if it can be repaired/reused.
Dylesxic i don't know for sure as far as 12 thou out, but they do make over sized bearings, but I've only seen about 4 thou oversized,.. call a few machine shops, they will tell you for sure
Dylesxic i don't know for sure as far as 12 thou out, but they do make over sized bearings, but I've only seen about 4 thou oversized,.. call a few machine shops, they will tell you for sure
Kyle Veilleux I measured with normal and oversized (technically undersized) bearings and plastiguage to measure clearance. I also measured the journal with a micrometer, believe it or not it was that bad.
12 thou out of round? I'm pretty sure that would not be serviceable. Better to play it safe and have it reground (or replaced if you can't take that much off.) Sucks, man - but better than trying to use it and having to do a second rebuild. Good luck!
thats scary the oil pump rod looks the same as bmw m20 oil pump rod :S
Do it Right Do it Once #TheTechnicianLife
doing things like this sucks with larger hands good thing you got small hands
"Feel the groove, not in a good way like you're listening to some good tunes but actually feel metal missing"
Yeah if metal is missing its not a good tune \m/
+MElmo lol no it is not. ;)
Is the wookie a 12v or 24v?
12v 2.8l 😎
thank God almost lost faith in you. when I saw that bearing get put back I was worried for you I was thinking man he is going to hate him self later having that motor taken apart and not putting at least new bearing in there....smart move not even close to being worth the risk by not replacing it and I feel the same goes with that oil pump just replace it you know if or when it fails your going to kick your self 8n the ass I have been there. just because the metal looks good on the outside doesn't not mean there isn't internal stress Cracks you can't get play it safe brother might be more money now but could save you heaps in the long run.
How many miles were on this engine?
138,xxx miles
HumbleMechanic thanks man. I have a 24v with 158k looking to rebuild and get ready for boost. Helped me out a lot what the engine is somewhat looking like.
amazing and professionalism inquires for sponsorship on intense/voluntary training in your renounce and reputable workshop, however, also looking for old model EBRO tractor and MASSEY FERGUSON tractor 175 new standard crankshaft or used second hand standard crankshaft for both above mentioned tractors.
CURRICULUM VEATAE C.V. OR RESUME
You know, if you don't like it, replace it
why not just replace that one bearing?
Jonathan H When a bearing wears as this one did it usually causes uneven wear on the crank. Putting in one bearing without having the crank machined might delay its failure but not cure it. Its simular to throwing new brake pads onto a warped brake rotor. It will cause uneven wear on the new pads and they will wear out faster than if you had the rotors machined. For long term longivity of the engine its best to have the crank machined and new bearings fitted.
he's not talking about having the crank machined... at least he didn't mention it.
He mentioned having the crank polished which is common machine work on a crank at a machine shop.
Very sad unhappy charles
who thinks he needs to forge the bottem end and valve train for high rpm N/A vr6 build!!!!
Ryan Rohauer no need for a built engine for NA. These engines are bullet proof.
Forged crank and rods from the factory throw in some ARP hardware good to go. Upgrade valve springs and retainers for higher rpm.
you could buy a new one
After spending some time watching you talk I am tired.
it all could have been much worse. so cheer up
🤓
Hey I have a nice brand new razor I can give ya....
Nah, I am waiting for the deal with a shave company to donate $100k to charity to shave it AHHA
Go RB26DETT stay away from vw junk
Okay 🤷♂️
ABA>AAA
Alan ABA better than AAA?
Has VAG ever used a gasket on oil pan?
+photorocket4550 yep. The older 2.0aba engines, the VERY early 1.8t Passat had them. Most everything now is sealant
is it an economic issue or is the sealant more reliable than a gasket?