I wouldn't say Cyprus and South Korea are repressive dictatorships. Maybe the norths of those countries but I'm not sure that applies to north Cyprus either.
@@Alex_FRD yeah, that what often happens when a superpower can't confirm a nation's ideology but that was due to the meddling of the US not the UN the South Koreans eventually wanted democracy in the end.
@@ericjohnson7234 not really if east Africa Federation forms which DR.Congo is part of it will be in better condition (I think it will form this year or next)
Well, I think that if we think that the Cubans suffered a lot of Casualties in our timeline, the casualty rate pales in comparison to what they'd suffer in this alternate Timeline
People’s Republic of Congo, Republic of Congo, Congo Republic, People’s Democratic Republic of Congo, Congo Free State, Free State of Congo, Congo Democratic Republic, Democratic Republic of Congo, Islamic Republic of Congo, Holy Congo, Congo City, Arab Republic of Congo. 🫃🫃🫃🫃🫃🫃🫃🫃🫃🫃😩😩😩😩😩😩😩🧐😩😩😩😩💀😩💀😩💀😩💀😩😩🇻🇦💀😩💀😩💀😩🇻🇦🧐😐🧐😐💀😐🙁😐🧐😐💀🥩🇵🇰✋🇵🇰🫃👩🍖🦷🍖🦶🇳🇪🇳🇪🤷👩🙁🇵🇰🇵🇰🙁🇹🇩💵💵💵🇮🇱💵🇮🇳🇪🇭💵💵🇮🇳🇮🇱🇹🇩🌎🇮🇳🧐🇮🇳🇮🇱✋💀🌎🙁🌎🙁👩🥩👩🫃🍖☠️👩🫃👩🐪👩🍖🍖🍖🤓🇲🇨🇲🇨🤷🌎🙁🇵🇰🇵🇰🥩🇵🇰🇵🇰😩🫃🫃🫃🫃🫃🫃🤓🦶🤓🫃🫃🫃🫃🤓🤓🤓🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥓💵🇮🇳🇮🇩🇮🇳🥩🌎🥩🇹🇩😐🤷✋🇲🇨🤷✋🤷🇲🇨🦶🇳🇪🍖🇲🇨🥩🥩✋🦶🇮🇳👩🦶🇪🇭✋🤷🇪🇭👩🥩👩🦶🦶👩🥩👩🦶🇵🇰🦶🦶🇵🇰🇲🇨🦶🦶🍖🍖🥩
If Africa and the Middle East were allowed to sort themselves out naturally without foreign intervention you'd probably have a lot more natural borders and nation-states. I think that would eventually stabilize themselves out and having a quicker recovery overall making peace more lasting and the soured relations more mended. It's hard to conceive that idea in the Americas as most nations here are more concepts and Ideals which make a culture not thousands of year's of homeland and development but a self-created mythos that could only work in the Americas more so the US and Canada. Latin America has incorporated its local Amerindian culture into Spanish culture which sure strengthens natural borders the only other places like the US and Canada in that way are Australia and New Zealand. Our situations are unique do to becoming dominant and integrating other cultures into the American Ideas and Ideals
It would be the exact opposite all across the continent say my African co-workers. westerners primarily think of Africans as one people and nothing could be further from the truth
Not true. Africa in a sense has skipped this stage of societal development in a bid for survival and foregin exploitation. It could not develop a national ethos based on something akin to myth. Why? Because when africa was freed,it was thrown right back into the meatgriner due to the fact that modern travel and communication were present. Lemme give you an example. Simon Bolivar was only able to do what he wanted because the Spanish were hella far away,and they could not impose their will. Here,when people akin to Bolivar rose,these grand idealists which could build a nation based on mythos as you describe,were instantly shut down. Thomas Sankara,Patrice Lumumba. The only one who you could say was slightly succesful was Nasser,but nasser had a nation who had a proud heritage. While these people needed to build something out of pieces. You understand my point?
Africa has ruled alone since the 1960s. African jingoists and African communists have ruled all these years. The only successful African countries are those, and only those, that chose cooperation with the West, the free market, and reinvested the profits from the free market in education, industrialization, and the laborious, slow creation of a middle class.
As a Kenyan I disagree with Kenya aligning with the Soviets. (very simplified) Following independence Jomo Kenyatya established capitalism and chose to align himself with the British and the West in general and was very anti-communist (exasperated by the fact the Soviets backed Somalia who wished to gain the NFD) even though KANU had socialist elements it was capitalist and anti-soviet in nature. Kenya in this timelines would probably be funded massively by the US and UK to maintain stability in the region and stand against communism. I'm open to any corrections in case I misread
(to add, one of the reasons why the proto-EAF didn't form in the 70s was disagreements between Jomo Kenyatta and Julius Nyerere over ideology as he disagreed with Tanzanian socialism)
From my reading atleast, and I wouldn’t call myself an expert, Kenya did maintain a policy of non alignment but then in the later 60s there was a moved towards socialism with president Joni Kenyatta moving it into the Soviet Sphere more or less. Regardless I believe Z does clarify that this, atleast in this timeline is due to the influence of what would be a massive Communist state nearby and is still roughly around the same time.
@@Cool-123 Laughable. Jomo Kenyatta was a dyed in the wool capitalist. Everything he did supported capitalism. His main opponent Jaramogi Odinga was the communist. Unless in that timeline Odinga somehow took power would be the only way Kenya would have become a communist state.
*VIDEO SUGGESTION:* What if Belgium was never created (with The Walloon and Flemish lands instead simply being given to France and The Netherlands, respectively)?
Flemish would still have rebelled and probably backed by both France and England as a way to weaken the Netherlands. The roots of their cry for independence was very deeply rooted, largely in religion. Their Catholic faith would probably gathered strong support from Catholic states in Europe and the Netherlands was ill equipped to deal with it anyway.
@@mormacil I highly doubt that, the 1830 rioting started in Brussels and Liège and most of the cities in the north had no participation in that at all. There were in fact strong orangist sentiments in Antwerp and Gent.
@@pelgrim8640 To localised, the majority of Belgian territories would still have rebelled. Maybe not a 100% in the same way with the same people but by and large still a Belgian rebellion.
@@mormacil No, they wouldn't and in fact they haven't either. It started as a working class uprising that was in no means intended to create some separate state. Those who then took over the uprising were in fact a minority, most of the elites preferred to remain in the united kingdom, and most of the lower class population had no bone in the fight at all.
In a scenario like this, by the time America invested on Chinese industrialization (80's and 90's) wouldn't America also do the same with this anticomunist block and industrialize them as well? Wouldn't that have massive inplications for modern day Africa?
Very good video, this largely plays out as I expected, but one relatively large issue is a partition of Zambia, which is unlikely. Zambia is a fairly monoethnic country, based around the Bemba people in the north. The Rhodesians and katangans would not split it, but rather support an anti communist regime while keeping it territorially intact. Maybe barotestan might get independence as it's own thing but that's a stretch. The anticommunist Zambia would likely lean towards katanga early on. Malawi is likely to take some chunks of Zambia, as the lines do cross ethnic borders. Again it's a great video, and an ATL I'm doing has a POD that causes the congo to collapse, and although the circumstances of collapse are different, I still see it falling apart the same way and affecting its neighbors the same way
I respectfully disagree with your conclusions on Zambia for a few reasons (and I want to help out your own scenario so I hope this helps). To begin the claim that the Bemba are the dominant group in northern Zambia is an oversimplification. While the Bemba people are indeed one of the largest ethnic groups in Zambia, they do not constitute a majority in the Northern Province where the Lunda people are predominantly found. Also to call Zambia monoethnic country isn’t accurate in the slightest considering that only around 20% of the population was Bemba (which I will concede does make it the largest ethnic group historically). Furthermore these regions in Northern Zambia that were annexed in this timeline held (as previously stated) significant Lunda populations (200,000 in all in the area of the country that historically and to this day has had a significantly smaller population than its more southern portions) along with mineral resources that would be very valuable to Katanga which in this timeline has an export focused economy. One final note is that the Bemba consider themself an offshoot of the Luba-Lunda empires, so they wouldn’t be too incompatible all things considered. While I do think your points have merit and some research to back them up, there are also some flaws in them that lead me to lean towards the scenario presented in the video, though what you describe may be similarly possible. Again it’s all speculative.
@Cool123 thanks for the critique, I had based the conclusion of Zambia being a monoethnic society based on that the bemba occupy the most important/populated areas and are just the biggest blob on the map, but I had definitely underestimated the size of other ethnic groups
@@l.aduque4389 it’s completely understandable, more often than not in Africa atleast it becomes difficult to properly map ethnicity since it more often than not overlaps.
I can see that The DRC would remain the wellspring of pan African communism for time to come and would like make alliances with Algeria, Dahomey (Benin) and definitely the independence movements in Angola and Mozambique, Acting similar to how you described Zambia did otl It would also probably affect the CAR, Biafra, southern Sudan and Ethiopia, possibly acting like the Cuba of Africa
African video suggestion: What if Ethiopia's military was modernized to a point that it was able to prevent Italy from taking them over in WW2. I've read that the historical consensus of Italy winning was the outdatedness of the Ethiopian military. Also supposedly the Japanese public was supportive of a potential alliance with the country as Ethiopia was seen by the Japanese public as another non-white empire, however Im not sure how true that is if at all.
It would also be interesting the effects of a lot of capitalist states helping the FNLA in uniting the Bakongo, maybe we could even have a Congolese kingdom in the north of Angola. Angola would probably not become communist too.
@@MonsieurDean What if they won the war against Ethiopia (for Ogaden) and properly consolidate as a nation state (probably involved the USSR and Cuba not helping the Ethiopians)? (Though not sure if that is feasible considering the existing tribal divisions).
Here's a video idea and it's a sequel Viking video What If medieval Europeans colonized America that would be interesting especially with 100-year War happening between Britain and France
@@MonsieurDeanmost likely but in reality all that money being printed to Ukraine I don't think that money is going to Ukrainian for its help we have to remember Hunter Biden and his dealings there and before the war Ukraine was considered one of the most corrupt Nations so there's some dark dealings going on there and there's a lot of evidence to support this people talk about Russian corruption and the other guards but people don't talk about the Ukrainian ones
@@ericjohnson7234it would be better choice since Ukraine is super corrupt and I guarantee you know that money is actually going to the Ukrainian people remember Joe Biden was actually in charge of Ukrainian Affairs back in 2014 under Obama and then there's Hunter Biden's laptop with the information on what he did with Ukraine oligarchs
Oooooooo lawd i love these African alt histories but there one I want to see above the others, day 62 of asking for what if the Zulu beat the British out of South Africa
@monsuirz I think the more realistic result from this partitions is that , instead partitions into for nation but two with north under communist while sour were force together by UN ,then there federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland survive but became more like minor versor of south Africa
@@danshakuimo claimed sure but reconquest is different mehmed wanted to "expand as far west as Alexander went east" and though highly unlikely he was the closest to bringing Italy into the empire say his successors conquered the entire Mediterranean and england, well after a couple generations the empire would most likely blow up but I'd love to hear monzier explain a scenario that's realistic and they blow up, id also enjoy him doing a what if they found a way to keep it all together he's the pro at the going in depth with hypothetical scenarios
hey what would the legacy be on the Congo Free State and King Leopold ii in this alternate timeline be I know it be bad but still how would these things be viewed in this timeline
@@ericjohnson7234 On one hand, they are surprisingly stable considering the number of tribes in their territory, and managed to pull through to the modern day, and is on the verge of properly industrializing. However, most of modern Ethiopia (mainly the Muslim Oromo part) was not part of Ethiopia until Menelik II conquered it during the Victorian era. Before that it was multiethnic but the are all pretty similar and Christian (the Habesha peoples). I think they have superpower potential (considering their growing population and industrialization) but the ethnic federalism set up by the Derg has to go and the people need to be united under a single Ethiopian identity, but not sure if things are getting better or worse in that regard.
A problem here is that ideological differences were less important than tribal and anti colonial sentiments. The majority of African post-colonial regimes were self-declared “Marxist” and aligned with the Soviet Union which played to that notion. Countering this were corporate interests keen on extracting mineral wealth, and the hiring of European mercenaries plus European military hold over influence from colonial days. It all contributes to a Political mosh pit that has always made the idea of a pan-African entity a farce in practical terms. One absence is the actions of the U.S. which had differing policies over time, starting off being determined anti colonial, but then seeing the Cold War erupt in the 50s and into the 60s, being blamed for things like Lumumba’s death, falsely. Still by Nixon’s exit and the evacuation of spine in American foreign policy under Carter, the vacuum in the area would see an expansion of Brezhnev Soviet influence. Reagan Doctrine counterforces came along in the 1980s, but concentrated in Angola and Mozambique where the Cubans were fighting. By the accession of Gorbachev in 1985 and the diminishing of Cold War tensions didn’t immediately see a cessation of the Central African competition, the pieces began to show that things were wrapping up. When the Soviet Union disintegrated, these regimes maneuvered to obtain corporate support by at least nominal moves toward liberalizing their regimes. The wholesale economic wreckage of socialist central planning combined with tyrannical government undermined these regimes and most saw significant turnover in the late 1980s into the 1990s. Mobutu was an exception, as was mugabe, but the sad fact is that a centralized or decentralized Congo made no difference, the elements for peaceful prosperity wasn’t there, they would fight over these different interests no matter what. The nation-state is not a natural political entity in this part of Africa.
Kenya would never have become a communist state in the 1960s. I guess its an ignorant thought not knowing Kenyas history. KANU was a non aligned party but heavily leaned to the west during the cold war. its leaders were largely capitalist...the main reason Kenya is ahead economically today compared to its neighbors who had communist episodes in their history.
ASK MONSIEUR Z ANYTHING
Have you ever played Hearts of Iron 4?
When’s the next installment of the Artist Hitler, Priest Stalin, and Scar Nicholas series?
Alternate History Idea- What if Charlemagne conquered Europe? (Or at the very least Western Europe?)
@@TheRealVenom448 I have, but I don't play it regularly.
@@_Its_Ya_Boy It's being worked on right now. I'd estimate it'll be ready in a few weeks.
League of Nations: Can't accomplish anything
United Nations: Everything we touch becomes a repressive dictatorship
I can't decide which is worse.
I wouldn't say Cyprus and South Korea are repressive dictatorships. Maybe the norths of those countries but I'm not sure that applies to north Cyprus either.
@@mappingshaman5280 both were formally dictatorships
When you're a foreign mercenary fighting for Katanga and you run into your fellow countrymen from the UN fighting for Congo
@@mappingshaman5280 South Korea was very authoritarian for a long time.
@@Alex_FRD yeah, that what often happens when a superpower can't confirm a nation's ideology but that was due to the meddling of the US not the UN the South Koreans eventually wanted democracy in the end.
Wait your telling me it hasn't collapsed?
Not yet...
@@MonsieurDean It most likely will.
Like every African state. It actually is more profitable to stay united and poor vs independent and rich.
@@ericjohnson7234 not really if east Africa Federation forms which DR.Congo is part of it will be in better condition (I think it will form this year or next)
@@Goofysociety true
So in this we would have the "Republic of the Congo" "Democratic Republic of the Congo" *and* the "Congo Republic". PAIN
Precisely.
Cue Ernst Junger’s Prussian Congo from Red Flood. Based Congo that never was. 😎👍
Don’t forget “the Congolese Republic” “The Congo” and “The Congo Republic” 😂😂
Feels like at some point there is a UN resolution that if your nation wants recognized you need more distinct names.
@@MonsieurDean Ah Hearts of Iron 4.
Well, I think that if we think that the Cubans suffered a lot of Casualties in our timeline, the casualty rate pales in comparison to what they'd suffer in this alternate Timeline
Very true!
The Congos! They're multiplying!
They will not be satisfied until all of Africa is Congofied.
@@MonsieurDean I think you mean congonized
They're forming a Congo Line.
People’s Republic of Congo, Republic of Congo, Congo Republic, People’s Democratic Republic of Congo, Congo Free State, Free State of Congo, Congo Democratic Republic, Democratic Republic of Congo, Islamic Republic of Congo, Holy Congo, Congo City, Arab Republic of Congo. 🫃🫃🫃🫃🫃🫃🫃🫃🫃🫃😩😩😩😩😩😩😩🧐😩😩😩😩💀😩💀😩💀😩💀😩😩🇻🇦💀😩💀😩💀😩🇻🇦🧐😐🧐😐💀😐🙁😐🧐😐💀🥩🇵🇰✋🇵🇰🫃👩🍖🦷🍖🦶🇳🇪🇳🇪🤷👩🙁🇵🇰🇵🇰🙁🇹🇩💵💵💵🇮🇱💵🇮🇳🇪🇭💵💵🇮🇳🇮🇱🇹🇩🌎🇮🇳🧐🇮🇳🇮🇱✋💀🌎🙁🌎🙁👩🥩👩🫃🍖☠️👩🫃👩🐪👩🍖🍖🍖🤓🇲🇨🇲🇨🤷🌎🙁🇵🇰🇵🇰🥩🇵🇰🇵🇰😩🫃🫃🫃🫃🫃🫃🤓🦶🤓🫃🫃🫃🫃🤓🤓🤓🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥓💵🇮🇳🇮🇩🇮🇳🥩🌎🥩🇹🇩😐🤷✋🇲🇨🤷✋🤷🇲🇨🦶🇳🇪🍖🇲🇨🥩🥩✋🦶🇮🇳👩🦶🇪🇭✋🤷🇪🇭👩🥩👩🦶🦶👩🥩👩🦶🇵🇰🦶🦶🇵🇰🇲🇨🦶🦶🍖🍖🥩
Jimmy Doesn't Know.
Get wrecked Jimmy 😂😂😂😂
Your videos are amazing! Thanks for this, very interesting scenario!
Thanks, pal!
Awesome video!
If Africa and the Middle East were allowed to sort themselves out naturally without foreign intervention you'd probably have a lot more natural borders and nation-states. I think that would eventually stabilize themselves out and having a quicker recovery overall making peace more lasting and the soured relations more mended. It's hard to conceive that idea in the Americas as most nations here are more concepts and Ideals which make a culture not thousands of year's of homeland and development but a self-created mythos that could only work in the Americas more so the US and Canada. Latin America has incorporated its local Amerindian culture into Spanish culture which sure strengthens natural borders the only other places like the US and Canada in that way are Australia and New Zealand. Our situations are unique do to becoming dominant and integrating other cultures into the American Ideas and Ideals
It would be the exact opposite all across the continent say my African co-workers.
westerners primarily think of Africans as one people and nothing could be further from the truth
Not true. Africa in a sense has skipped this stage of societal development in a bid for survival and foregin exploitation. It could not develop a national ethos based on something akin to myth. Why? Because when africa was freed,it was thrown right back into the meatgriner due to the fact that modern travel and communication were present. Lemme give you an example. Simon Bolivar was only able to do what he wanted because the Spanish were hella far away,and they could not impose their will. Here,when people akin to Bolivar rose,these grand idealists which could build a nation based on mythos as you describe,were instantly shut down. Thomas Sankara,Patrice Lumumba. The only one who you could say was slightly succesful was Nasser,but nasser had a nation who had a proud heritage. While these people needed to build something out of pieces. You understand my point?
Africa has ruled alone since the 1960s. African jingoists and African communists have ruled all these years. The only successful African countries are those, and only those, that chose cooperation with the West, the free market, and reinvested the profits from the free market in education, industrialization, and the laborious, slow creation of a middle class.
As a Kenyan I disagree with Kenya aligning with the Soviets.
(very simplified) Following independence Jomo Kenyatya established capitalism and chose to align himself with the British and the West in general and was very anti-communist (exasperated by the fact the Soviets backed Somalia who wished to gain the NFD) even though KANU had socialist elements it was capitalist and anti-soviet in nature. Kenya in this timelines would probably be funded massively by the US and UK to maintain stability in the region and stand against communism.
I'm open to any corrections in case I misread
(to add, one of the reasons why the proto-EAF didn't form in the 70s was disagreements between Jomo Kenyatta and Julius Nyerere over ideology as he disagreed with Tanzanian socialism)
From my reading atleast, and I wouldn’t call myself an expert, Kenya did maintain a policy of non alignment but then in the later 60s there was a moved towards socialism with president Joni Kenyatta moving it into the Soviet Sphere more or less. Regardless I believe Z does clarify that this, atleast in this timeline is due to the influence of what would be a massive Communist state nearby and is still roughly around the same time.
@@Cool-123 Laughable. Jomo Kenyatta was a dyed in the wool capitalist. Everything he did supported capitalism. His main opponent Jaramogi Odinga was the communist. Unless in that timeline Odinga somehow took power would be the only way Kenya would have become a communist state.
*VIDEO SUGGESTION:*
What if Belgium was never created (with The Walloon and Flemish lands instead simply being given to France and The Netherlands, respectively)?
Flemish would still have rebelled and probably backed by both France and England as a way to weaken the Netherlands. The roots of their cry for independence was very deeply rooted, largely in religion. Their Catholic faith would probably gathered strong support from Catholic states in Europe and the Netherlands was ill equipped to deal with it anyway.
What if leopold devil ass was a decent human
@@mormacil I highly doubt that, the 1830 rioting started in Brussels and Liège and most of the cities in the north had no participation in that at all. There were in fact strong orangist sentiments in Antwerp and Gent.
@@pelgrim8640 To localised, the majority of Belgian territories would still have rebelled. Maybe not a 100% in the same way with the same people but by and large still a Belgian rebellion.
@@mormacil No, they wouldn't and in fact they haven't either. It started as a working class uprising that was in no means intended to create some separate state. Those who then took over the uprising were in fact a minority, most of the elites preferred to remain in the united kingdom, and most of the lower class population had no bone in the fight at all.
In a scenario like this, by the time America invested on Chinese industrialization (80's and 90's) wouldn't America also do the same with this anticomunist block and industrialize them as well? Wouldn't that have massive inplications for modern day Africa?
Potentially, yes.
Can you do a "What if Biafra survived" video please, pretty please 🙏🏾 I'm very impressed by your ability to analyse
What if Richard the Lionheart survived as King?
What if Decolonization in Africa didn't happen after WW2?
Worth exploring!
The continent would be more developed now, that's for sure.
Correct.
The continent would be far more developed and stable, also richer and just generally better.
Most likely, it would still happen regardless if ww1 and ww2 happened or not since decolonization was talked about even before ww1
Very good video, this largely plays out as I expected, but one relatively large issue is a partition of Zambia, which is unlikely. Zambia is a fairly monoethnic country, based around the Bemba people in the north. The Rhodesians and katangans would not split it, but rather support an anti communist regime while keeping it territorially intact. Maybe barotestan might get independence as it's own thing but that's a stretch. The anticommunist Zambia would likely lean towards katanga early on. Malawi is likely to take some chunks of Zambia, as the lines do cross ethnic borders. Again it's a great video, and an ATL I'm doing has a POD that causes the congo to collapse, and although the circumstances of collapse are different, I still see it falling apart the same way and affecting its neighbors the same way
I respectfully disagree with your conclusions on Zambia for a few reasons (and I want to help out your own scenario so I hope this helps).
To begin the claim that the Bemba are the dominant group in northern Zambia is an oversimplification. While the Bemba people are indeed one of the largest ethnic groups in Zambia, they do not constitute a majority in the Northern Province where the Lunda people are predominantly found. Also to call Zambia monoethnic country isn’t accurate in the slightest considering that only around 20% of the population was Bemba (which I will concede does make it the largest ethnic group historically).
Furthermore these regions in Northern Zambia that were annexed in this timeline held (as previously stated) significant Lunda populations (200,000 in all in the area of the country that historically and to this day has had a significantly smaller population than its more southern portions) along with mineral resources that would be very valuable to Katanga which in this timeline has an export focused economy.
One final note is that the Bemba consider themself an offshoot of the Luba-Lunda empires, so they wouldn’t be too incompatible all things considered.
While I do think your points have merit and some research to back them up, there are also some flaws in them that lead me to lean towards the scenario presented in the video, though what you describe may be similarly possible. Again it’s all speculative.
@Cool123 thanks for the critique, I had based the conclusion of Zambia being a monoethnic society based on that the bemba occupy the most important/populated areas and are just the biggest blob on the map, but I had definitely underestimated the size of other ethnic groups
@@l.aduque4389 it’s completely understandable, more often than not in Africa atleast it becomes difficult to properly map ethnicity since it more often than not overlaps.
99% Zambian and Malawians tribes share a History with Katanga.
I can see that The DRC would remain the wellspring of pan African communism for time to come and would like make alliances with Algeria, Dahomey (Benin) and definitely the independence movements in Angola and Mozambique,
Acting similar to how you described Zambia did otl
It would also probably affect the CAR, Biafra, southern Sudan and Ethiopia, possibly acting like the Cuba of Africa
Hope the EAF makes this region prosperous
Me too!
Me three bruv 👌🏿
EAF is the reason of the terrorism in the region.
I think dr congo is destined to have a wealthy english speaking eastern half and a poor french speaking western half, in the not to distant future.
Recolonization?
@@MonsieurDean economic factors mostly. Maybe passive cultural colonisation?
As a congolese, you are not wrong.
Ladies and Gentlemen, Lumumba #5
😂
What if the pirate Republic survived (remake)
I kinda like it how it is, but maybe. If I can flesh it out more.
Wow, MR Z really did a scenario on the POD of a scenario I’m working on, neat
Well since I’m early let me make a joke:
Congolese stability
It would be possible without people sending and funding terrorism.
African video suggestion: What if Ethiopia's military was modernized to a point that it was able to prevent Italy from taking them over in WW2. I've read that the historical consensus of Italy winning was the outdatedness of the Ethiopian military. Also supposedly the Japanese public was supportive of a potential alliance with the country as Ethiopia was seen by the Japanese public as another non-white empire, however Im not sure how true that is if at all.
It would also be interesting the effects of a lot of capitalist states helping the FNLA in uniting the Bakongo, maybe we could even have a Congolese kingdom in the north of Angola. Angola would probably not become communist too.
Yo Mr Z
You gotta make a video on somalia
It's ancient history is amazing, bur it's recent history has been pretty bloody
Give me a suggestion.
@@MonsieurDean What if they won the war against Ethiopia (for Ogaden) and properly consolidate as a nation state (probably involved the USSR and Cuba not helping the Ethiopians)? (Though not sure if that is feasible considering the existing tribal divisions).
Since we have a video on africa why not another? : what if the zulus drove the British out of South Africa?
I'm shocked no one else has ever recommended this! (ever)
Someone did on your what if rhodesia survived
Here's a video idea and it's a sequel Viking video What If medieval Europeans colonized America that would be interesting especially with 100-year War happening between Britain and France
🤔 Interesting idea.
Is this even an Alternate History at this point?
Honestly, I think if the world had let Patrice Lumumba lead Congo, the country would be much better off.
To be honest, the Congo seems barely united as it is.
Correct.
It is united.
Interesting
Correct.
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Great vid do you have a vid on bush wars
What if England stayed Catholic?
what if John Anderson in the 1980 presidential run ran with Walter Cronkite as his running mate
What if Jordan Peterson was prime minister of Canada and Ben Shapiro was president of America
😂 What a timeline that would be. The U.S would redirect all funding from Ukraine to Israel.
@@MonsieurDeanmost likely but in reality all that money being printed to Ukraine I don't think that money is going to Ukrainian for its help we have to remember Hunter Biden and his dealings there and before the war Ukraine was considered one of the most corrupt Nations so there's some dark dealings going on there and there's a lot of evidence to support this people talk about Russian corruption and the other guards but people don't talk about the Ukrainian ones
Arguably one of the worst timelines
We already give all funding to Israel. So... What gives?
@@ericjohnson7234it would be better choice since Ukraine is super corrupt and I guarantee you know that money is actually going to the Ukrainian people remember Joe Biden was actually in charge of Ukrainian Affairs back in 2014 under Obama and then there's Hunter Biden's laptop with the information on what he did with Ukraine oligarchs
What if the Fourth Crusade never happened? How would the Middle Ages look with a stable (but not uber powerful) Eastern Roman Empire?
why have you been replacing the flags on all your old videos
Oooooooo lawd i love these African alt histories but there one I want to see above the others, day 62 of asking for what if the Zulu beat the British out of South Africa
It will come.
@@MonsieurDean and I’ll be here for it 😤🔥🗿🦆🐐🦅💪🫡
Hi how are you
Great, and you?
@@MonsieurDean fine, but busy.
Kenya was always British aligned
@monsuirz I think the more realistic result from this partitions is that , instead partitions into for nation but two with north under communist while sour were force together by UN ,then there federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland survive but became more like minor versor of south Africa
Where's scarverse 4? WHERE?
what if the ottomans "re"formed the roman empire
What If The Ottomans Joined The Reform Party?
They already claimed to be Rome, though I assume in this case they would need to conquer deep into Western Europe
@@MonsieurDean yes senpai finally noticed me! I've been committed to getting you to see my idea for a while now
@@danshakuimo claimed sure but reconquest is different
mehmed wanted to "expand as far west as Alexander went east" and though highly unlikely he was the closest to bringing Italy into the empire
say his successors conquered the entire Mediterranean and england, well after a couple generations the empire would most likely blow up but I'd love to hear monzier explain a scenario that's realistic and they blow up, id also enjoy him doing a what if they found a way to keep it all together
he's the pro at the going in depth with hypothetical scenarios
hey what would the legacy be on the Congo Free State and King Leopold ii in this alternate timeline be
I know it be bad but still how would these things be viewed in this timeline
Katanga and Rhodesia? Sounds like a based timeline
Have you wondered what this would look like if put in the same universe as your "Rhodesia Survives" video?
can you do a video on what goryeo never ousted in power and
what if japan and germany attack russia same time in ww2
Total War: Congo Crisis when?
What if Ethiopia was a superpower
It wouldnt last forever. Inevitably it would collapse. Too many tribes against its success.
It was already one back in the day, in the form of the Aksumite Empire.
@@ericjohnson7234 On one hand, they are surprisingly stable considering the number of tribes in their territory, and managed to pull through to the modern day, and is on the verge of properly industrializing.
However, most of modern Ethiopia (mainly the Muslim Oromo part) was not part of Ethiopia until Menelik II conquered it during the Victorian era. Before that it was multiethnic but the are all pretty similar and Christian (the Habesha peoples).
I think they have superpower potential (considering their growing population and industrialization) but the ethnic federalism set up by the Derg has to go and the people need to be united under a single Ethiopian identity, but not sure if things are getting better or worse in that regard.
@@danshakuimo hmm
What if the Sino-Soviet split became hot ?
A problem here is that ideological differences were less important than tribal and anti colonial sentiments. The majority of African post-colonial regimes were self-declared “Marxist” and aligned with the Soviet Union which played to that notion. Countering this were corporate interests keen on extracting mineral wealth, and the hiring of European mercenaries plus European military hold over influence from colonial days. It all contributes to a Political mosh pit that has always made the idea of a pan-African entity a farce in practical terms.
One absence is the actions of the U.S. which had differing policies over time, starting off being determined anti colonial, but then seeing the Cold War erupt in the 50s and into the 60s, being blamed for things like Lumumba’s death, falsely. Still by Nixon’s exit and the evacuation of spine in American foreign policy under Carter, the vacuum in the area would see an expansion of Brezhnev Soviet influence.
Reagan Doctrine counterforces came along in the 1980s, but concentrated in Angola and Mozambique where the Cubans were fighting. By the accession of Gorbachev in 1985 and the diminishing of Cold War tensions didn’t immediately see a cessation of the Central African competition, the pieces began to show that things were wrapping up. When the Soviet Union disintegrated, these regimes maneuvered to obtain corporate support by at least nominal moves toward liberalizing their regimes. The wholesale economic wreckage of socialist central planning combined with tyrannical government undermined these regimes and most saw significant turnover in the late 1980s into the 1990s. Mobutu was an exception, as was mugabe, but the sad fact is that a centralized or decentralized Congo made no difference, the elements for peaceful prosperity wasn’t there, they would fight over these different interests no matter what. The nation-state is not a natural political entity in this part of Africa.
What if Henry VIII of England had a son from Catherine of Aragon?
What if Serbia won the battle of Kosovo ?
What if the the first crusade failed ?
What if the Mongols didn't conquer Russia?
What if the Plantagenets never came to power in England?
I think the Congo Republic would be at free range for the Republic of the Congo, wouldn't it?
Too bad Mouton Sese Seiko was not the leader Congo needed, they need to merge either the other Congo, and keep the Zaire flag
Yugoslavia Africa version?? 😮
What if the Holy Roman Empire (Germany) never existed?
It's all part of France now
Kenya would never have become a communist state in the 1960s. I guess its an ignorant thought not knowing Kenyas history. KANU was a non aligned party but heavily leaned to the west during the cold war. its leaders were largely capitalist...the main reason Kenya is ahead economically today compared to its neighbors who had communist episodes in their history.
What-
It's a flamingo amigo.
It's a flamigo.
❤
What is Africa's geography didn't suck that would change the entire history of the continent because Africa geography sucks
Not the geography. We have the best one. The borders suck.
What if the Etruscans brought the Romans to heel and subjugated them?
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first comment
Not quite, unfortunately. Better luck next time!
✨Nobody ever cares✨
"Westernized Africans" Ay lmao i don't think those exist.
They were called the évolué