What if the Haitian Revolution Failed?
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- Опубликовано: 5 апр 2023
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The Haitian Revolution was the most successful slave revolt in history. While the history passed that has been, rough. It still affected a lot of minds in the 19th century. So what if the Haitian Revolution failed?
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Reuploaded because the last video was copyright struck. Decided to use that opportunity to include additional things. This is just a quick scenario in between bigger projects
Meh
I imagine the part that got struck was the sponsor part? That must’ve been why it was muted last time
skill issue
What didn't they like about the old one?
damn
If the Haitian revolution had failed, Liechtenstein would never had changed its flag. It was not until the 1936 Olympic Games that the two countries realised that their flags were exactly the same.
Only a matter of time until Romania and Chad realize the same thing
@@LeoYoshi54321 They did, it's just they both wanted to keep it, Romania saying it had it before Chad even was a thing, Chad saying Romania had a different one at the time they chose it.
@@gam08e85 as an African I really want to support Chad in that situation but honestly Chad’s coat of arms looks really cool in the middle, they should just add that or something and let Romania keep the original
And Indonesia flag is just upside down Poland.
I mean there would be no French Haitian or Latin American revolutions if it weren’t for the American Revolution.
Actually the French revolution did abolish slavery in 1794 (yes, Robespierre also did good stuff). Haiti was even very supportive of the revolution. It's only after Napoleon brought slavery back that the colony proclaimed independence. Then it was definitly abolished by the Second Republic in 1848.
And it was brought back in no small part thanks to all the lobbying and propaganda made by the former plantation owners, many of the images still used as history to this day…
Very shameful behavior, as shameful as freeing the slaves, then coming back with a fleet a few decades later to say “oh btw here’s the gigantic bill for your freedom”
Would be almost comical to think about if the outcome wasn’t so depressing
@@kevinxu3892 Well when you massacred an ethnic population down to the last man, woman, and child, a bill seems like you're getting off easy compared to what could happen.
I think Robespierre is often misunderstood (even if he was extremely misguided). He was a fanatic and during the terror, some of the revolution's most extreme (extreme does not mean bad) ideals which include stuff like women's rights and other ideals widely accepted nowadays flourished.
@@ericamborsky3230 no, he is not
Just cause he said one or two things that were good does not make him magically “misunderstood”
Guess ol Adolf is misunderstood y’know, he made laws against animal cruelty and hunting of things like wolves. Nevermind his anti-drug campaign and being anti addiction
He cared about nature so much more than everyone else in europe and didnt like drugs so i guess hes just misunderstood and we shouldn’t judge him so harshly anymore yeah?
Oh wait no he started a war that killed tons of people and was a loony bin who didnt even follow some of his own ideas.
Robespierre is no different. Doing one good thing doesnt magically wash away the bad and Robespierre is 100% responsible for so much of the evil that the revolution was. The French revolution is without a doubt one of the most destructive and awful things to have ever happened in human history and its largely because of him and idiots like Marat. He directly caused the deaths of upwards of 40,000 people and possibly more and in very cruel fashion. Frankly the number of deaths you can indirectly attribute to him due to all the extremist thought that the revolution spawned is even more, well into the millions.
He is by far one of the worst human beings that has ever lived on this planet in terms of sheer destruction he caused, so no.
He aint misunderstood
It wasn’t brought back, it just never was abolished in haiti
Stop spreading myth.
The point about the fear of "genocide of the white race" being a big factor for poor southerners is interesting. I always wondered why a poor southerner would fight so fervently for slavery when it only benefited their rich neighbors.
Probably because they want to gain access to whiteness, which was defined exclusively by rich Anglo-Saxon Protestants, and all of the perceived benefits that spring therefrom. Better to be a poor "white" person than a black person.
Well, why do you think some poor rural americans will venerate billionaires and ride their dicks to this day: because they saw themselves as temporarily inconvenienced plantation owners.
While I’m sure racism did play an even bigger part, it’s undeniable that the fear the Haitians put into whites played at least some part.
Hate. Really even now. Affirmative action primarily benefited white women but since black people got the bread crumbs of it we always advocated for it. Simply for the perceived benefit of black people succeeding is the reason why they shut it down. and things like this been happening throughout the entirety of U.S history. Things like government aid so many white rural folks rely on sometime more than black people but because of the perceived idea that black people benefit from anything they will go against it. They rather starve with you just so you can starve rather both of you eat even if you ate slightly more.
Easy. Slaves were considered a status symbol. It’s actually sad and pathetic to think about these people are, in their own eyes fighting for the only thing separating them from being impoverished. Despite that particular institution being used by rich plantation owners to exploit the poor via price manipulation, and utter market domination. (The plantation class pretty much had a monopoly on the slave market post 1887)
It’s the same reason why so many poor people buy expensive phones, jewelry, European cars, cosmetic surgeries etc and are ruined because of their own poor financial decisions. They like having these things because it is a status symbol.
What if:
- Frederick Barbarossa would not have drowned in a river.
- Henry V would have lived until the age of 65+ and/or left a capable heir.
- Władysław III survived or even won the battle of Varna?
- Catherine's revolt against Peter III would have failed.
- Sweden won the Great Northern War instead of Russia?
Mostly questions related to sudden ruler deaths as I think these altered the course of history to some degree instead of hasten or slowed it down a bit.
seconds one looks a lot fun
I'm interested in seeing the last one.
I think a more interesting one than Sweden winning the Great Northern War would be "What if Scandinavia was an island?" because that's what the Romans thought Scandinavia was.
The second one would be a world without the British as they would integrated into greater French culture and resurgence of Welsh, conish and perhaps no Irish famine (the French were massive celticboos)
Also bloodier wars in Europe as the new United Kingdom of england and france would fight agaisnt a habsburg spain and austria for hegemony in Europe like France did irl but this time with perhaps a bigger navy and its united North American colonies (or perhaps it focuses more in Europe and less in the new world)
@@thatonejoey1847 Edward I and Edward III made a lot of progress in making English the dominant language in England despite the ruling classes still being able to speak French.
I think short term it would allow England to focus it's attention on Scotland as the French historically prevented England from taking Scotland which was one of the reasons why the hundred year war started.
Question would be how stable this Angevin Empire on steroids would be. History has proven that it just takes 1 bad ruler to ruin things. A lot would depend on how efficient Henry V would have been in rooting out support for Charles VII.
Question would also be how stable the alliance between England and Burgundy would remain of course.
In case Henry V and his better heir would have managed to root out the Valois line, I think it would at least be likely the English would have been more interested in European matters instead of turning towards colonialism instead.
It would perhaps mean a strong Holy Roman Emperor would have had a better chance of re establishing control over Northern Italy at least as the French would not first consolidate control over Savoy and later make attempts at taking Milan. I find it less likely England would make an attempt to go that far south as they would probably have enough trouble keeping control over the British Isles and their possessions in France.
I like it when alternate history just results in relatively small changes, it feels so much more grounded and realistic.
fr
@@whyussr7628 on god dawg
This feels like something that would be small effects in the past but would have larger effects in the modern world. More educated Black/African Americans would probably allow them to succeed better post civil rights.; unless the racists people get even more racist in this timeline.
Yep
African Americans would have a better time integrating post slavery
The nightmare-fuel interjections of southern slavers justifying why they’re slavers was just *chefs kiss*
It may terrify you but im sure back than it was a normal conversation matter.
I think the South was just more elaborate in explaining slavery but im sure everyone had this. Be it the jews with their domination of the goyim, the muslims with infidels or the romans with the barbarians (although serfs werent treated bad). I guess that even in the time of babylonians they probably had some justification for slavery.
It's bone-chilling that people thought that way and still do to a slightly lesser degree.
@@nathanseper8738listen think about the money if you aren’t the one suffering from it you have to be able to see the appeal
@killthewrong4598
> think about the money [gained from enslaving people]. if you aren’t the one suffering from [not being able to treat other humans like machines / farm animals / tools], you have to be able to see the appeal.
This is neither nearly as effective nor as endearing an argument as you think it is.
@@TheTinyDiamond I’m just saying don’t fault them they just chose money over morality and frankly can you blame them look at the time the lived in and what they had available slavery isn’t good or bad it was a necessity
The Haitian Revolution inspired a slave rebellion in Jamaica, which in turn increased the fear of a slave massacre and led directly to Britain ending slavery.
Jamaica doesn't suck at everything though. Obviously Haiti did a lot of shit wrong.
@@MaynardCrow The Haitians thought that as a new independent Republic that the US would support them, but the US instead worked with the European powers to harm Haiti. When Spain's South American colonies rebelled and asked for help only Haiti was there to give them safe haven and weapons. Eventually when the former Spanish colonies gained independence and held an international meeting on how to work together, the United States made sure Haiti was not allowed to attend, because they loved holding people in slavery and didn't want American slaves to get any ideas. One huge reason Haiti sucks is because the US and France have never stopped messing with them.
@@jeremydevor7004Ironic how the more righteous country went to ash. Then the perceived righteous succeeds. Kinda reminds me of griffith from beserk.
@@jeremydevor7004exactly
@@jeremydevor7004, Haiti turning into a carousel of military dictators and wannabe monarchs after gaining independence didn't help them out either.
I would just like to say that I un-ironically appreciate your inclusion of all of the actual quotes confirming that yes, the civil war was about how some people thought enslaving other humans was not only fine, it was super great and they were willing to fight and die to keep doing it.
but but muh STATES RIGHTS
States Rights to do what exactly?
@@pdpotman420 Here's the irony: Abolition states were forced by supreme court ruling to hand escaped slaves (or anyone else with the appropriate skin color) over to anyone from the south who demanded "their" slaves back. That's why the underground railroad had to go all the way to Canada. Only one set of states ACTUALLY had their rights taken away.
@@pdpotman420Slavery was bad because it violated the American people's inalienable rights. That being liberty.
Question, do you think we should have a federal law that abolishes abortion? On grounds of it denying life? One of our inalienable rights? The first and most important one?
Or, do you think that it should be a state rights issue, and we should work to convince each state to get rid of/restrict abortion?
@@forsaken22
The thing with abortion is that it's difficult to say absolutely *when* the fertilized egg becomes a developing fetus and when that fetus actually becomes a person.
Under ideal conditions, the question of its allowance would never even come up and nobody would need such. But the ideal conditions would include things like extended, paid maternal, if not parental, leave from work, expanded and reinforced childcare institutions and assistance services, and, should the parent not be able to care for the child(ren) for whatever reason(s), more sponsorship, support, and care for things like orphanages. Hell, an entire realignment of societal pressure away from forcing people to think having children is the be-all-end-all goal of any relationship would be nice.
But you types always scream "muh religion/morals", and then refuse to consider the economic and material realities of American childcare. Hell, y'all even get angry when those mothers/fathers-in-need call out for help from any community, and call them weak for being unable to care for a child or say "well maybe you shouldn't have had kids!". Do everything in your power to skirt and avoid responsibility for forcing your morals down other people's throats.
Haiti must have one of the saddest histories of the world. In 200 years it went from horrible slavery to genocide, then to land of dreams, then to conqueror army, then into revolt, then into horrible dictators, and then to more horror, with briefs moments of horrible natural disasters or epidemics. It is one of the few places that I know where people is actually asking for an American intervention just to put an end to the chaos, but as they don't have oil or lithium or anything of value that could be got somewhere else easier, I doubt it is going to happen...
Haitians don’t want American intervention that is propaganda, Haitians absolutely do not want Americans in Haiti
People overplay the idea that America intervenes for resources. America mostly intervenes for the sake of international influence. Panama? Grenada? Vietnam? Korea? Hell we have TONS of fossil fuels here! No, we just don't want to get dragged into a nightmare of guerilla fighting, death, and then getting blamed when it INEVITABLY fails because Haiti is ungovernable. I say America should set up a program for those trying to GTFO but other than that, it's not our problem!
Unfortunately it's still not that simple, Haiti has been the victim of many interventions for most of it's history, including the modern post cold war era. Currently there is even contemplation of a Canadian UN-OAS led intervention to militarily back the government against gangs in the country, which will likely do very little given a similar thing already happened after the 2004 coup
Please no intervention, don't need to burn more tax dollars on that place.
I would accept The American State of Haiti.
Glad you decided to add Simon bolivar and the Latin American revolutions when you Reuploaded this. That was 100% something missing from the original, because Haiti was really the start of many Revolutions across the Americas and the case study that the Gran Columbians followed.
What was the original video I didn’t get around to it in time what changed
Colombia, not Columbia 😐
venezuela is the sucessor anyway not colombia
I really think the french would've let him stay lol they hate the Spanish
@@sethvanpelt5707very unlikely because he believed in a creole ruled state, that would send a bad precedent for France’s creole and free black population
What if: Friedrich III of Germany wouldn't have died so early. His death actually changed a lot of stuff for German history. "His premature demise is considered a potential turning point in German history and whether or not he would have made the Empire more liberal if he had lived longer is still a popular discussion among historians."
Does Friedrich III fire Bismarck in this scenario? A more liberal Empire is impossible while keeping him Chancellor
@@warlordofbritanniayes because Bismarck too conservative
It wouldn't have made much of a difference. Most of the conservative nobles and politicians would've probably ended him
Amazing that he remastered this episode. It's one of the classics that really deserved to be done better than old Kody could with his meager talent. Now with greater skill and effort, the people can have the episode they deserve.
The whole Simon Bolivar thing was probably the biggest impact here. That's kinda world shaping.
im venezuelan so it honestly made the video more interesting than it probably was for a lotta ppl, we're taught about the importance of haiti all the time in school
@@kingdededick Then why so much anti-Black bias in Venezuela?
@@Hypogean7 Over a million Afro-Venezuelans and most Venezuelans have some Black ancestry.
@@jasonhaven7170 that's mostly an issue in inner-city majority white areas rather than the whole of Venezuela, plus me and my school were situated in a poorer region with a lot of ethnic diversity
@@kingdededick Okay, but that doesn't negate the anti-Black undercurrent across Venezuela. Your country still belives in Mejorar la Raza along with the rest of Latin America.
Honestly this version is much better. Was kinda disappointed in the first one that the part about Haiti not being allowed in the international trade due to the revolution and massacre that entailed along with people generally being terrified of the idea spreading was a major factor that led to Haiti's current state. From a historical perspective it makes sense to black ball Haiti.
Also glad you added in that stuff about Simon Bolivar and the effect the Haitian Revolution would have in South America. Don't know much about South American history pre-1950 besides the absolute surface level basics so that was interesting and now I am interested to learn more about that subject
Great video and revision though!!
19th century South America is a mess.
I'm so sorry friend. If you already looked it up you might have noticed it's full of contradicting facts from even the most reliable sources.
If you're interested I can give a rundown? As a South American I looked this up very deeply.
Appreciate the added section on Bolivar, but this video really doesn't get at the significance of the Haitian Revolution. It just kind of assumes that everything around Haiti would happen the same way, and Haiti would go along with the trends, but the Haitian Revolution had some big international impacts; there's a pretty good chance that if the Haitian Revolution failed, slavery would have remained common in the Caribbean much later into the 19th century (maybe even later), and that the Spanish-American War would never have happened, significantly changing the course of 20th century history.
it wasn't just the US South that developed a massive fear of slave revolts and white genocide after the Haitian Revolution, that rhetoric was circulating through European slaveholding powers as well. And where in the Southern US, where slaves made up a large minority overall and a majority in some areas, the response was to claim abolition would lead to white genocide and to double-down on slavery, in European powers, where the vast majority of the slavery was done in distant colonies, it ended up benefitting the abolitionist cause; they already had the carrot of "freedom is a universal right and slavery is immoral," the Haitian Revolution gave them the stick of "if we continue holding slaves sooner or later the slaves will rise up, kill all our colonists, and we'll lose our colonies." No Haitian Revolution doesn't just impact Haiti, it impacts the entire abolitionist movement; if they didn't lose their biggest sugar producing colony, chances are France would continue to use slavery in Haiti for as long as they could, and it would retain slavery into the 1880s like Cuba and Brazil in our timeline (that is, assuming no successful Haitian Revolution later on in the 19th century). The British Empire might abolish slavery in the 1860s like the Dutch did in our timeline, or they might keep it even longer, since the French retaining slavery would keep slavery competitive in the Caribbean. Good chance that also ripples out into European-African interactions being way different (European countries might have continued participating in the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade for longer, and while self-sustaining slave populations still probably would have slowed it down, there's a good chance that a less successful abolitionist movement would result in less active anti-slave trade measures, resulting in a longer term small-scale TAST, as well as a different course for colonialism in Africa).
And Cuban history could be wildly different; in our timeline, Cuba had a similar response to the Confederacy, where the fear of becoming "another Haiti" caused the white planters to double-down on slavery. The Haitian Revolution also resulted in Cuba becoming the biggest sugar producer in the Caribbean, which made slavery more profitable for them. When Spain abolished slavery in 1811, the Cubans just straight up refused to listen, and kept slavery for most of the 19th century. There was a very strong rhetoric that Revolution against Spain in Cuba would mean the creation of a Black Republic like Haiti, and the Cuban elite leveraged several abolitionist uprisings (directly inspired by the Haitian Revolution) to get more autonomy within the Spanish Empire (hence how they were able to get away with ignoring the Spanish abolition of slavery). That's a big part of the reason Cuba remained a Spanish colony so long after most of the other colonies in the Americas had become independent. If there were no Haitian Revolution, there's a good chance that Cuba would have had a revolution like the other Spanish colonies (maybe even one motivated by Spanish attempts to abolish slavery, kinda like the US Civil War). And if Cuba were independent... No USS Maine, no Spanish-American War, and that would significantly impact how early 20th century US history went, probably rippling out into a very different course for US participation in WWII. And at that point we're into butterfly effect territory where we can't reasonably predict what else would happen, but needless to say the effects of Cuban independence would be significant, and that would pretty directly flow out of the Haitian Revolution failing (Ana Ferrer has two great books that talk about the influence of the Haitian Revolution on Cuba called Insurgent Cuba and Freedom's Mirror, if anyone id interested).
So yeah in conclusion "basically everything would have ended up pretty much the same" is a really boring and not particularly plausible direction to take this scenario, the Haitian Revolution was a pretty important event for 19th Century Atlantic history.
Agree with this! I think this scenario should've had a greater focus on the impact of the Americas (esp Latin America) since they were built on the racialized form of slavery.
I was surprised there was only one mention of the Dominican Republic despite them being neighbors and having a... complicated relationship.
Edit: I should add that it's theorized that the Haitian Revolution and its population pre-revolution (overwhelmingly black) were one of the reasons that the U.S. abolished the transatlantic slave trade in 1807.
@@mooncat4376 I'll note in response to your edit that the Northern States already wanted to abolish the TAST during the Constitutional Convention in 1787, and agreed to protect it for a grace period of 20 years as a compromise, so the fact that it was abolished in 1807 is probably just because that was the first year politicians could act on the longer-standing desire to end it (though it's not impossible that the Haitian Revolution was a factor).
Thank you!!!!!!
I wanna see a Bolivar vs Napoleon alt-history
Napoleon somehow gets European nations to stop fighting it, and Haiti becomes a hot point between a stable Gran Columbia and secure France
I like this timeline.
It would be cool if the U.S. got involved but I would assume they would stay neutral.
All it would have taken is killing off the Rothschilds family and prevent their money to be sent to Russia and Austria for the funding of a new coalition war against France. Then, the invasion of the UK would have still been on the table and after a couple year, a "pacified" UK would have stopped making other nations fight in its place while taking all the credit to this day...
Hell just bolivar and Napoleon interacting just sounds so cool
And Santa Anna would declare himself the next (insert victor) when he launch his Presidential campaign?
Always felt bad for Hati, always being hurt from the outside and inside for a lot of it’s history.
Hope it’s gets better there
Hope in one hand, shit in the other. See which fills up first.
@@MaynardCrow?
i find almost hilarious how obsessed with slavery the south part of the united states were, and people today have the audacity say that was for ''states rights''
I so appreciate the lore in the ad segments, schitzo as it may be at times it's more engaging than 90ish% of RUclipsrs ad reads. Bravo sir!
Can we get a scenario where the Turks lost the Turkish war of independence? I feel there’s some interesting things to talk about like Italian Anatolia, Greek Smyrna and potentially even getting Istanbul back later on, an American occupied Armenia, and possibly an independent Kurdish state. Obviously I’m sure I’m wrong on some things but it’ll be an exciting scenario to see imo
Depends on when the Turks lose the war. Do they lose before or right after the Treaty of Sevres? Do they lose after the Italians and French bail? What about before or after Armenia is conquered by the Bolsheviks? There's a lot of ways such a scenario could go, depending on how exactly Ataturk's gamble fails.
Appreciate that this channel is a good way to learn more about world history.
"we're not calling it that"
love the quotes and fire you had in here. people keep saying the war wasn't about slavery, points at quotes
Also Idk whats going on with the lore either but its a wild ride
You can be part of history, alright, but not up there with Newton and Washington and Christ, if your actions didn't lend to that outcome
To this day, Haiti has never stopped being punished for its successful slave uprising.
And the genocide against the white people living there regardless if they were slave owners or not
Good.
Yeah they aren't too sharp
To this day? How so?
@@theodayorafaelolubodunboni5527 they've had to pay France for damages since
I live in New Orleans and listened to Mike Duncan’s Revolution podcast on Haitian revolution and was shocked at how much it affected New Orleans and its racial history.
It a shame Louisianna people today reject anything that has to do with Haiti, while in the 1800, migration of people from Saint Domingue (Haiti) doubled the population
Clicked on this because haven’t seen an alt hist vid in a bit learns more about hati and the civil war than I did in school in 10 mins amazing
VIDEO IDEA: In the USSR in 1977, Brezhnev renewed the Soviet Constitution. A question being considered at the time was whether or not to dissolve the Union republics and centralize them under the RSFSR. What would have happened had they decided to deconstruct ethnofederalism in the USSR in 1977?
This question was also considered and hotly debated at the time of the USSRs founding, with Lenin being essentially the dominant force to push national self-determination and the right to succession in the Soviet Constitution and state structure, while most other Bolsheviks at the time (including Stalin) believed that the incorporation of the borderlands under the administrative unit of the RSFSR was the better solution. You might be able to look at this frame of history as well to come to even more wild chains of alternative events.
What if the asteroid that hit Tunguska in 1908 had landed in a more heavily populated area.
people would die
ur welcome didnt even need 2 do a 10 minute video
Honestly I think it's crazy Napoleon sold all Louisiana. I know he wanted to focus on Europe but I would've just sold the arts north of St Louis and told my French colonizers to move into that southern region.
But this timeline, I imagine Napoleon could sell it specifically after retreating from Moscow although the US was already spending money on fighting Britain.
French America was pretty useless without Haiti, so there's no loss in selling it.
I think originally The United States wanted to buy a small part for 10 million and Napoleon decided to sell it of 15 million to pay off France debt
I love your channel keep up the great stuff
A slightly more stable Haiti in 1870 could convince the 1 extra Senate vote needed to make the modern DR an American territory and eventually a State. Now with a land border in Haiti, the US would be invested in keeping Haiti a decent place to live, which honestly is one of the best timelines for them.
Maybe, but not better for the US. Why would they want Hispaniola as a state?
@@MaynardCrow Ulysses S. Grant wanted to make Santo Domingo a State and encourage African-American migration there. In fact Frederick Douglass was supportive of the plan.
@@charlesmadre5568 then after the spanish american war cuba and puerto rico will be states.
This was such an interesting and informative video ❤
I highly recommend listening to age of Napoleon’s podcast on Haiti and louverture, there’s a few misconceptions you’re glossing over here:
- when the massacres of whites happened: this was actually after Touissant was capture by the Napoleonic expedition. The preceding revolutions to free the slaves from Haiti during the jacobin regime was made in France and by the white governor of the island. In fact, many of Touissant’s mentors and closest friends were white lawyers and ex- Burgundian nobles. The former would send his children to learn under Touissant, and the latter would have a friendship so deep that their letters would use the term “pure friendship” when describing each other
- the media portrayals you’re using and seeing in most image searches are actual propaganda images made by the Big Whites, the plantation owners who fled the island or loss possessions during the Jacobin phase and used their remaining wealth and connections to propagate the slave liberation as a race war. So more often than not, the images and French pamphlets people use to describe Haiti is basically the 18th century version of PragerU
-when the whites were massacred in the much later phase of the revolution(again, this is Napoleons time versus the jacobins), many of the citizens refused to cooperate and the Haitian leaders had to use the army to force compliance
- out of all the leaders venerated during the Napoleonic era, Touissant stands out as a truly face to face, “know the people” and rule from the road sort of leader. His skill as a horseman was unmatched, and combined with his experience dealing with whites, mixed race, and black populations, he was an effective politician who rode ahead of his own guard to meet with people on a personal level. For a land where a few years ago most people’s experience of governance came in the form of a whip, it was truly a remarkable achievement to have the leader of the land come talk to you in person by himself
Cody finally got me with a Nord ad,
I started crying laughing.
It’s so fucking over.
I remember reading about the Haitian revolution during my Masters and saw that the British offered Toussaint independence for the Island in exchange for fighting Napoleon and trade only with them. And really thinking it over, that was probably the least bad path Haiti ever had.
Now this is interesting and something imma read up on
@@nomad155 sorry for not having a link to that offer. But I distinctly remember me leaving my fairly lefty professor perplexed at why that offer would be worse than what happened in real life.
@@Andyliberty0923 Britain would go on to have the largest market in history so Haiti being in on that would have given their economy a chance.
@@Andyliberty0923 it could Arguably have been an integrity thing? But I don't know. Haiti just have been doing well in the rebellion before Toussaint's capture that he felt he didn't need the British aid
You maybe correct.
But being locked into trade with only one country effectively makes them all but another colonial master. They decide the prices of everything you buy and sell.
Great video👍.
Great vid.
Thank you for including all the quotes from Confederates stating how integral slavery was to their cause. A lot of doofuses try to argue the Civil War wasn't about slavery.
You've gotten a lot better at historical analysis!
It's funny you say that, because this is a video about one of the most influential events in Caribbean history and his conclusion is "basically everything would have ended up pretty much the same"
@@Oldass_Deadass_dumbass_channel Ok, so maybe he started in the subbasement and is working his way up...
Alt history is repeating itself!
No, you are!!!!!
@@Bringmeoneofthosechickens Alt history is repeating itself!
The sponsor lore is something else.
Sucks the last one got a strike. But once again thanks from a Haitian subscriber. I do wanna say tho that if Haiti wasn’t ignored on the world stage and received commerce it would be a much better place today. Hell, the world would be a much better place if slavery never existed
You wouldn't exist though. Your parents wouldn't exist or your grandparents. Would you prefer a timeline where many generations of your ancestors and culture didn't exist, even though you would never know the outcome in the new timeline?
Phenomenal video my guy
When althist has more lore than the alternate history topic chosen.
I've seen this one before, its a classic!
Man, I have to say. I love the plushes. When are we going to release more of your other characters???
Fantastic video
Reading about what people who fougth for the csa believed is always wild.
The sponsorship lore is brilliant.
Can't wait for it to evolve to Neytirix's level where the entire video is secretely a promotion.
(Just gonna copy paste my comment from the old version here and done. Nice.)
Ooo a reupload, gonna watch it again
Columbia not existing would be a big change. If the Spanish keep it until the war with the US, the US may have even more influence there in the region. Maybe Panama, instead of independence, becomes a colony of the US like PR did, or it could drag out a war with the US over independence. Congress was divided over Cuba, adding that to the mix would be interesting.
Colombia*
Haïtian here great video and thanks for mentioning part of the reasons why our country struggles to this day and not its just poor. And as many of the comments said our fight for freedom is very inspirational but we know what is the current situation it was a brutal fight we won but we suffered ever sinced.
For your information we still consider Dessalines as a hero of the Independance but we had to kill him 2 years after because he was a violent and bloodthursty leader. Yes the slaves masacred most withes and those who associated with the French empire but they did spare some exemple there was a Polish expeditionary force when they came and learned that they would be doing the same thing that the europeans did to them they fought with and stayed and still have descendents. And for Bolivar as promise to Haïti he freed the slaves of Venezuela and give their flag an hommage to us the Blue and Red under the Yellow.
(depending on which historican you ask) another impact of a failed haitian revolution would be Britain taking longer to abolish the slave trade. MP's blaimed the revolution on imported slaves rather than those who were born into enslavement and used this as a reason to end the slave trade. The Haitian revolution also stood in direct confrontation to the ideas behined slavery as Britian eventually did have diplomatic relations with the country. There are also other impacts it had as well but its jsut interesting to think about.
I really hope the situation gets better in Haiti.
Hope plus a buck and a quarter will buy you a sodapop.
This channel: "What if the Haitian Revolution Failed?"
99% of people clicking on this video: "What the fuck is Haitian?"
If the Haitian Revolution failed, I can see three possibilities.
•Saint-Domingue is taken by the Spanish (as Quebec was taken by the British) and is merged with Santo Domingo. Then in 1869, Santo Domingo is annexed by President Grant.
•Louisiana goes back to Spain and is reabsorbed by New Spain, which will become Mexico. American settlers will move into Louisiana and Oregon, while California and Texas remain a part of Mexico. With most of its territory intact, Mexico could be a true rival power to the US in the Western Hemisphere.
•If the Texas Revolution or Bear Flag Revolt still take place (as there were multiple rebellions against the Centralist Republic of Mexico), they would be significantly different from what we know. If independent, Texas and California would be Latin American republics. There may also be an independent Yucatan and Republic of the Rio Grande.
Glad I found your channel. Could you do a video on a continued Viking occupation of Vinland?
Something kind of inspired by recent events: If Ford DOES NOT pardon Nixon, and instead he is put on trial. Could Ford have won re-election? Who would have been the Democratic nominee in 1976? What would the 1980 election have been like?
Next: What if Nat Turner's rebellion was successful
He was never going to win. The guy was a deranged lunatic and killer who always would have been put down by the South
Whole buncha dead kids.
I like this video because it's about how every action in history doesn't have to butterfly effect
This is probably the saddest scenario ever. Haiti is a mess now, but the Haitian Revolution was an inspirational moment in history.
Not really the fall of rome was the saddest
@@MisakiMusashi who cares of Rome other than the socially inept?
I mean, it had an understandable motive but got real genocidal real fast. Wiping out all the whites and most Mulattoes, Babies on spikes/pikes as flag substitutes, oppressing what would become the DR.
Haiti is a mess as a punishment. The French saddled them with a debt that took over a century to pay off.
@@MisakiMusashi If we're talking about Constantinople, then yeah, sad. But Western Rome? No, it deserved to die.
Imo a more interesting topic would be “What if Napoleon teamed up with Louverture”. That’s a real what if scenario.
Cody, I just bought a Soviet Union plushie after buying a Roman Empire plushie. C'mon! COVID-19 in the 1970s or 1980s. You were born to do this! Only you can do this!
Bolivar might also have not been as ready to include black Colombians in his revolt
I guess it probably wouldn't be much different than what Guadeloupe and Martinique is today. Not a powerhouse but more peaceful. The 18th century French really had no flair of knowing when anger is about to blow up to their face.
I remember the og. Also so tempted to get the plushies even tho I have the 1st editions
An interesting idea I got from Kings and Generals coverage of it, What if the Crusade of 1101 hadn't been a disaster? Basically this a "forgotten" crusade that happened inbetween the 1st and 2nd crusade, despite it being bigger than the 1st and had many people who either fled the 1st or were riding the high of it. But Arslan basically wiped out the whole crusade in 3 one sided slaughters that crushed the spirit of many europeans to crusade for quite awhile. It was the biggest crusade ever aside from the 3rd, yet nobody talks about it because it never even got to its destination.
Yet people talk about the Fourth Crusade of 1204, which also never made it to its intended destination, instead detouring to sack Constantinople.
@@miro.georgiev97 The Byzantines sabotaged the 2nd crusade so no wonder
On Black literacy, you're forgetting about the Nat Turner Rebellion, which was led by a literate slave preacher on crusade. If Haiti didn't give them ideas of revolt, that certainly would've.
What if: Apartheid never happened? Like, let say in an alternate timeline, the National Party lost the 1948 election and the United Party continued ruling. How would that effect South Africa today?
Look at what happened to the tribes who lived in that region before the folk who came in before the Afrikaners were a thing. Probably wouldn't be much better.
It's worth mentioning that due to Haiti winning its independence that Napoleon gave up on the Louisiana territory which he promptly sold to the US, he needed Haiti as to give himself a port in the America's, that and for the wealth the slave Plantation produced, prior to the Revolution it was the most profitable European colony, he planned on using its revenue to kick start the colonisation of the Louisiana Territory, which has a whole lot of implications.
In fact, that's great to see a scenario where, for once, things change a little bit but not that much. It shows that not every events, even if they are important in the history of a country, are necessarily very influential on a larger scale (but still have some influence.)
If you look at Haiti nowadays it really makes you think, did the revolution actually succeed?
The entire point of the revolution was to free slaves from the hands of the French, soo, yeah.
Better to be an independent Latin american country where people are poor and not enslaved vs a colony where people are both enslaved and infinitely more poor
My view as a Haitian ^^ and from what I've seen the view of the majority evidenced by the fact that we celebrate these events every January 1 with loud ass music and kompa dancing
@alternatehistoryhub, hey Cody, you should do a collaboration video with oversimplified. I’d enjoy it and I’m sure others would too.
The far more interesting question here is what would have happened if Haiti stayed stable/ wasn’t embargoed
Maybe it would be similar to Jamaica or the Dominican Republic.
What if the covid pandemic never happened?
We’d probably have the economy of 2026-7 with less debt
I don’t think we would be able to see the full scale of effects for a couple decades.
The USA would have invaded Iran and it would be really bad.
Honestly idk if this is just me but I feel like it’s still way too early to make that video
That'd be like making a video on if the Ukraine war never happened. Too soon.
The advert was pretty nice.
Cody should do an Alt history video where the First ReUpload wasn’t demonitized by youtube
Edit: Copyright striked not demonetized
Here’s an interesting scenario, if the Louisiana purchase was even just a decade down the line than Lewis and Clark expedition would’ve happened cuz Both Lewis and Sacagawea died before 1813 and the big biggie is that even if the route to the pacific was made, Britain would have had a greater hold on the Pacific Northwest via David Thompson arriving to the Columbia river (sans Fort Astoria) and the most logical conclusion is that both Washington and Oregon would be part of now British Columbia 🇨🇦👍😅.
It's going to be funny in this ATL if it was British Settlers in British Columbia bumping into Russian otter trappers coming down from Alaska building their trade outposts.
Would the immigrant trail in your ATL have to be rename from 'Oregon Trail' into something else for there will be settlers coming for land regardless?
Was California Gold Rush the only thing that could turn Pacific Coasts from the 'bumfuck of nowhere' it was in 19th Century into urban settlements, no matter who own it?
Slave owners feared a slave revolt long before Haiti. Thomas Jefferson wrote about how he thought it was inevitable. I suspect little would change in that regard.
Always found Haitian history fascinating yet tragic. The massacres committed afterward independence wasn’t surprising considering how brutal slavery was there but it was just the icing on the top of the shit storm a successful slave rebellion represented for the Americas and Europe.
It WAS surprising. They killed every single person with a lighter skin color.
Whites, half-blacks, you name it. No farmer, shoe-maker or anything would survive. Might be a light skinned African, still NOPE.
In Latinamerica we didn't massacre all the Peninsulares after independence. We kicked out the bureaucrats and such on a paid trip back to Spain, that's it.
Jfc I can't even fathom the possibility. Beheading all Spaniards sounds so nutty. But that's what the Haitians did! The fact they spent like 3 decades of complete turmoil afterwards is almost karmic.
I'm super excited about the makship time warp i was bummed last time because i wanted the soviet but couldnt afford him 😢 not letting him slip though this time but unfortunate timing for russian plushy but cant be helped can't wait to get him
Actually, would France even grant independance to Haïti ? The Martinique and French Guyana still are under french administration. Maybe it would have stayed that way, adding millions of new overseas french to the already numerous population of the remains of France's colonialism. That might have a big impact on french internal politics. Like... would it be more racist or less racist ?
Probably less
There is a chance it would still be independent given Haiti is much bigger than both Martinique and Guadeloupe combined both in terms of size and population. People would have eventually rallied for independence
The unintentionally edgy confederate quotes was some of the most hilarious things I've seen in years
Confederacy was based
@@thomaswatson1739Yep
@@thomaswatson1739 based on what
@@thomaswatson1739 based on a massive L
I mean have you ever been to Chicago? Or seen the riots of 2020? The quotes were accurate to a surprising degree
Watched it twice and didn’t realize it was reupload. The first time around I was disappointed it was so uneventful only to get robbed of time again
I think the Louisiana Purchase thing could be more interesting, as Jefferson wouldn't have actually bought the land himself because he was a by-the-letter constitutionalist. He only approved the purchase because they couldn't exactly just give it back to France. So at the very least there are some extra political changes in America.
How about some individual alternate history scenarios, each focusing on a particular individual?
- What if Hitler had not committed suicide and was instead captured or managed to escape under an alias?
- What if FDR didn't die before WWII ended?
- What if Nikita Khrushchev was instead ousted by Beria following Stalin's death?
- What if Erwin Rommel had bested Patton on the African front in WWII?
Omfg these keep getting better by the episode. We need a full video of skits and ideas with Cody and Jimmy or like a bloopers episode
If the Haitian Revolution failed, the Louisiana purchase would have never happened. USA land area would have been much smaller than it is.
I could see the Louisiana purchase still happen. Instead of a failed revolt the French feel they can't remove troops from Haiti to Louisiana. Selling the Louisiana purchase helps remove some of the problem. Maybe a additional promise that the US has a base near New Orleans to potentially help the French with reinforcements.
If anything French intervention in Mexico might be quicker during the US civil war due to French troops already in Haiti.
Just watching these videos for the Cody-Jimmy lore at this point. Gotta be the best part.
Oh yeah and the scenario's cool too I guess
Cool vid
Watching again to help the algorithm
What if the Balkans were united? (and somehow managed to stay united)
Yugoslavia
Bro the voiceover on those southern quotes had me dying 😂😂
nice vid
Am I the only one who got an ad for Napoleon patio tables the second his names was said at 7:35?
A good what if would be “What if Andrew Jackson listened to the supreme court’s decision in Worcester v. Georgia?” It would be interesting to see the little effects it would have on Native American populations and how it would mean the trail of tears wouldn’t have happened or would happen much differently.
What about "What if other enslaved uprisings succeeded?".
Rolling the dice again!
Always wondered what the story was behind Portugal and Spain, so could you do a what if dealing with them?