What If Rhodesia Survived? | Alternate History
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 24 дек 2024
- Use code MONSIEURZ50 to get 50% off your first Factor box at bit.ly/3RfnReq!
The story of Rhodesia is the story of a British settler colony's struggle for survival against a changing political landscape and social environment, on top of a physical struggle against enemy states and militia groups. The Rhodesians had a lot going for them, but even more acting against them. Between the Rhodesian Bush War, sanctions by Britain, and an inability to gain recognition of its independence, the Rhodesians were ultimately forced to compromise with Britain and the militias, and thus Rhodesia ceased to exist, being replaced by Zimbabwe. But what if that changed? What if in an alternate timeline Rhodesia survived? How would Rhodesia have impacted Southern African geopolitics in the late Cold War, especially with the wars occurring in its neighboring states of Portuguese Mozambique and South African Namibia? We'll be explaining how Rhodesia could have survived, and what the consequences of that would be in this Alternate History.
🕓New alternate history videos every weekend.
⚡Support Us On UTREON: utreon.com/c/m...
🎖️Become A Channel Member:
/ @monsieurdean
👕 Merchandise: us-of-z-shop.c...
📘 Our Flags: / 100086678611994
✴️ Fan Reddit: / mrz_official
📷 Instagram: / deanmonsieur
#rhodesian #alternatehistory #history
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Use code MONSIEURZ50 to get 50% off your first Factor box at bit.ly/3RfnReq!
Don't forget to like the video and subscribe for more!
In this video, you show Israel's borders as encompassing Palestine. Why is that?
(I think Israel's borders without Palestine simply look better on a map)
@@jonahmsl Isreal Isreal ISREAL.
Here’s some ideas for another day:What if Henry Ford became pres
What if Ross Perot won in 1992
What if Watergate never happened
What if George Wallace became president
Does Factor deliver to the UK
It would’ve been based. End video.
From being the bread basket of Africa to famine and hyper inflation.
That’s what happens when the bitter West puts sanctions on you for decades
Well that’s what happens usually in post-colonial failed white supremacist states.
The “bread basket” I wonder who had access to all that “bread” the white people or the people that land belonged to
I good being poor with my land i stand on
@@kernj6454 Quite another to say while you starve.
"What if Rhodesia survived?"
You missed a perfect opportunity to ask "What if Rhodesia never died?"
It never did tho
@@praisethesun.praisedeussol6051 than why isn't it called recognize as such
@@fggghgyu i would answer if i knew what you where trying to ask me
@@fggghgyu it's not dead, just waiting to get back up
was literally going to comment that lmaoo
Imagine building a small bit of Europe in Africa that the natives never settled and then having to give it back to the natives and watch it fall to ruin.
Never settled? So the ruins of the Great Zimbabwe just got there? And the Mutapa Kingdom and Rozwi Empire were just stories then? And and the Matabele Wars are just a dramatization of british settlers walking into unoccupied land?
what natives? Lol all of them was brought there by the British government for slave work etc!
@@Walter_Stroud That is not what im arguing. But to say that Rhodesia before the british was an uninhabited and pure land that had no natives living on it is just a false statement
Or just stay home & don't invade foreign continents introducing colonialism & chattel enslavement. 🤡
@@TswanaSandsno one cares
What did Zimbabweans use as a light source before candles? Electricity. :)
Meh, I’m not Even surprised by this
Zambian Space Program
As a Zimbabwean. I can't actually get angry with that statement
South Africa 2
@@grayscale888 Hope no one observed Little Turtle. I posted a comment as a powerlifter and personal trainer that responded to another blogger who turned out to be in middle school. Imagine a child asking questions! I think there is a strong possibility based on the question that the otherwise racist sounding question posed my be from a 9 or 10 year old or some other similar issue. I did not check this out to determine the age of Little Turtle, but if it is racist but a child it would be the parents fault.
I used to co-teach with a lady from Rhodesia. She was 18 when Rhodesia collapsed. She told me as she had to escape the country they weren’t afraid of Mugabe’s troops, in fact they were kind to her and her sister. But the ones they were terrified of were the Chinese and the North Korean troops.
Oh yeah they might be trying to kill as many white people as they possibly can but they were just so gentle and sweet
A large chunk of Mugabe's troops would've been reintegrated Rhdoesian soldiers.
@@johnnyjohn-johnson7738 Yeah, people on both sides of the argument on Rhodesia tend to forget that 2/3rds of the Rhodesian army was composed of native Africans, it wasn't a race war between downtrodden black guerrillas and white guys in short shorts.
@@Mateo-oq7ui Wars are usually about nothing more than money and controlling people, a lot of the narratives with things like religion and race (with exceptions, such as during WW2) are just excuses.
@@Mateo-oq7ui oh
Long ago I watched a documentary, hosted by a black American, on the progress of independent African countries. In Zimbabwe he was dumbfounded by the native Bantu peoples who said they preferred white minority rule as they all had jobs, money, schooling, peace and far less corruption especially in government.
A few years ago I was in hospital and one of the nurses was from Zimbabwe (Shona people). She fled due to the dire poverty, corruption, high inflation and incessant violence. She said to me she wished to go back to the Rhodesia of her parents and grandparents.
@@NewSherrif Why is dire poverty, corruption, high inflation and incessant violence normal for your people?
Wat was the documentary called? It sounds interesting
Wow the 1% left and took all the jobs with them? Who could have guessed…
@@b_lah_kay4515 Wow they must of took all the blueprints for farming and industrial infrastructure as well because they couldn't do that before and still can't now.
Yeah I think there is a phrase said by an African of a Portuguese colony or province as it was called at the time that goes “they would call us motherfuckers but we had food on the table, now they call us comrades but we have nothing to eat” I’m not sure we’re it came from thought
I personally think if Rhodesia
had survived. It would have some of the best nature reserves and bio diversity in the world. And less poaching.
Would it still be an apartheid state
@@thebestof3132 it wouldn't be South Africa.
Would certainly have more food.
@@thebestof3132 right, it would be glorious!
@@thebestof3132 It never was an apartheid state, that was a uniquely South Africa policy.
I'm honestly surprised that the US and UK took such a harsh stance against Rhodesia in its fight against literal communists considering the regimes that they supported in Central and South America during this time in the name of anti-communism.
Nazi Germany was also anti-communist, why weren't they supported?
Gee whiz, maybe it was the whole minority ruling over the 95% majority thing, people like you seem to pretend wasn't a thing?
@@KingJupiter They weren't in the midst of the cold war then, dipshit.
The problem was the US and UK told Smith and van der Byl to clean up their act , indeed South Africa of all nations even told Rhodesia that they were going too far, and half of the problem was Van der Byl who touted himself as some smug aristocratic jerk when handling Rhodesia's diplomatic affairs
US wanted to abolish the empire.
Oi, what if the US kept the Panama Canal?
*GODDAMN YOU CARTER.*
Panama would fall off
"For All Mankind" Season 2 without space race, my guess
space port
Less ability to tax and more responsibility for upkeep.
An important point you missed was brought up in "Bitter Harvest", the book that Ian Smith wrote. Right at the start it is mentioned that had the Boers not won out in the election just after WW2 in South Africa, the likelihood that SA (and by extension Rhodesia) would have opened their doors to the millions of displaced Europeans is incredibly high. In doing so it likely would've not been a sizable minority in SA and a negligible one in Rhodesia, but in fact a majority in SA and very large minority in Rhodesia.
Interesting point but I doubt that so much white immigration would have happened that the native population would just be supplanted like that
My dad escaped Yugoslavia in 1962 and was in a refugee camp in Italy. His options were, waiting the camp 5 years to go to the USA, 3 years for Canada, 1 year for Australia and you can go tomorrow to South Africa if you wanted to. Most people didn’t escape communism in Eastern Europe to go to Africa. Like my dad, most waited for a western country.
@@ivicahudika3379 Interesting so undercutting the waiting period to get people was a thing back then, too.
@@ivicahudika3379 I was having a chat with some guys from India and I was theorizing that Canada is attractive because it's a place to improve credentials and get some better experience, and one of them set me right that the waiting period for a Green Card is set by country of origin, not residence, and if you're in India, you've got a 10 year wait.
@@williaminnes6635 I do t think there was undercutting…I think those timelines all depended on how soon a country could absorb you due to jobs and other factors. They probably changed all the time. For example, my mom escaped from Hungary, two months later she was in Canada, didn’t have to wait the three years like my dad did. Why? Because her brother was already there. She had a place to stay and someone to take care of her.
Ian Smith and Rhodesia:
Everything the world feared this man would do, Mugabe did. Once again, the international community ruined a country. Mugabe, the marxist, ruined both Rhodesia and Zimbabwe while Ian ruined neither. The international community isolated Rhodesia, leaving them helpless against "guerrilla fighters"/terrorists, which proved deadly for all groups. At least Rhodesia had tribal reservations and tribal land purchases, which is far less horrible than the situations Mugabe put both blacks and whites through... Even in Canada there's demographic rules for Quebecois which are there to maintain the Quebecois population percentage, Mugabe didn't do that with white Rhodesians who were born there, he took everything from them and essentially forced them to leave and wonder the world pretending to be south africans. It's kind of just a fact life would be better if Rhodesia still existed
"Everything the world feared this man would do, Mugabe did." - basicly this,
@@anon2034 It's always that way with Leftists.
@@SpiritumDeoMachina just stay our if africa africa for africans thats how nature made it we africans don't go for the land of others we s keep to our land so return what u have taken from others europe for european Asia for asías inca land for incas aborigines land for aborigines Kanak lands for kanakies how is this dificult to understand
@@julioelado31 Then why is London, Paris, Rome and many other European cities full of Africans?
There are 100 times the number of Africans in Europe than whites in Africa.
@@julioelado31the Bantus did
This is going to make one side of the viewership sad over what was lost, and the other mad that you even reference Rhodesia.
The sad ones are white liberals who like it when white people die
We will return!
I meant the mad ones.(typo)
@@snipman8067 hang
@@snipman8067 You're getting bred out in your own homeland, how do you plan to re-colonise another's?
My Grandfather fought in the rhodesian Bush war as a volunteer after doing his national service in the british army. Good video by the way!
@@Walter_Stroud He died before I was born sadly. Admittedly he did end up liking his drink a bit to much in the end...
Your grandfather fought for white supremacists.
@@hall511 Your just simply wrong...
@britannicgeneral7460 Rhodesians fought for the survival of their Apartheid oppressive and white supremacist system, if your grandfather literally VOLUNTEERED all the way from the UK to fight with them, then he sympathized with the cause.
My uncle fought there aswell. God bless those white men Bravely
fighting against massive odds🙏
This is one of the more fair assessments of Rhodesia from what I've seen. Most people, as soon as they hear the name "Rhodesia", rush to a mic and just do the equivalent of screaming "EVIL" like that character from spongebob.
It was a western depended racist colony propped off minority rule. They certainly weren't the good guys
@@armmelon327 If they were the bad guys in Africa, the migrants in Europe are the bad guys too by the same anti-colonial logic.
@@armmelon327 Isn't it weird how all of the Rhodesia fangirls NEVER address that?
speak to many older black people in South Africa will say it was better under apartheid regime---thy hard work and food to eat ,now they are living under poverty
Glad Rhodesia fell to smithereens.
Rhodesia means nothing to me, its a wasteland that evaporated long ago. A country created only to be enjoyed by the whites. Im glad it fell
I was a deputy in the jail in Norfolk, Va. We had an ex RLI solider as a prisoner. Dude was very old. But went into a bank and robbed it with a shotgun. RLI was some crazy people, really crazy kill ratio.
They got the job done, fearless.
Considering they were literally 3-7 percent of the population, and were fighting abducted high school kids, not really.
Man was trying to finance a coup to topple Mugabe, eventually happened but took nearly 40 years.
Here's the story of Rhodesia...a land both fair and great...
On 11th of November an independent state
Rhodesia? Fair? Hmmm idk man…
This was much against the wishes...of certain governments...
Who's leaders tried to break us down, and make us all repent...
Whose leaders tried to break us down and make us all repent...
If Rhodesia survived, it would be a lawful economic power house in Southern Africa. Lifting all the countries that border it. A win win for the whole region.
You maybe confusing people with facts and logic
A settler try by all means to force himself as the best civilization. You were never invited instead you were defeated and chased to your countries of origin, yet you keep on posting nonsense about about your illegal occupation of Zimbabwe, if you're a best dancer you don't force yourself on uninvited party
Apartheid South Africa was this “lawful and economic powerhouse” you speak of. And yet, it brought nothing but ruin to its neighbours as economies were squeezed, rulers replaced and areas bombed all in the name of protecting an increasingly unstable system.
@@literallyjustthings9227 Thank goodness that regime has ended and all the neighbours like Zimbabwe are doing so well.
South Africa has gone from strength to strength too. Regular democratic elections, no corruption, plenty of water and electricity too.
@harveysmith100
Some countries like Namibia and Botswana have been allowed to flourish, while others like Zimbabawe have massively scuppered their potential. And as for South Africa, despite rampant corruption and lawlessness, it still manages a more effective democratic system than America and provides more electricity and water to the majority of its citizens than Apartheid ever did, even during the worst loadshedding and most severe drought.
It's a long way...to Mukumbura...
It's a long way to...jawl...
It's a long way from your hometown,
But you can have yourself a ball
With your mukkas
@@Pc118Gamer but you can have yourself a ball
My brother originally moved to Rhodesia in 1978. He left when the violence became too much and moved to South Africa which is now well on the same route unfortunately
I asked him why both countries had been treated the way they had been. The vitriol and hatred from countries like the U.K. who happily used their population to fight Britains wars
His answer was ‘because that’s what they wanted and Europe is going to go the same way’
I thought he was bonkers when he said it. Turns out he was completely right
Especially when you look at what's going on in UK and how the government treats the indigenous population.
Junior school there in mid 1950's. One of the classes was English pronunciation. Laid on our backs we'd recite such things as "How now brown cow" and yes, The rain in Spain....etc. Children, try not to speak with a lazy tongue (because of African sun fatigue) was the mantra. Etherwarse yew will send lark a Seth Efrican eccent. A later school's sports war-cry went like this: Salani salani wemma kia, Salani baba, Tina se pumma - Militon. Salani! That was Milton boys' school in Bulawayo. It's still there!
What A Time It Was...
I grew up in Ghana and it's just sad to see Africa being destroyed by Africans. You look at how backward things have become and just have to shake you're head.
Bro it’s impossible to grow if you’re under back breaking sanctions from the West for decades. That negativity effect your nation regardless of a good or bad African leader
Africans are from Africa you dumbaxx.
@@Abdullah-uv2pv Yes, that’s what he said
Troll
@@Aman-oi3re The west demanded to give power to Mugabe in the first place
During best of times, the Rhodesian dollar was on-par with Sterling. During the worst of times, the Zimbabwean dollar exceeded Weimar levels of inflation. So sad for a country that held so much promise at independence.
Ehh. Zimbabweans are better off today than in Rhodesian. And why should comfort come at the expense of your land, anyway?
@ayodejiolowokere1076 You'll need some evidence for that. Zimbabwe is practically a failed state.
The long awaited remake, let’s goo!
if any country deserved to survive throughout history, it was rhodesia.
⚪️
🗑
Ok we will the whites in Europe 👍🏿
Imperial Germany bro
Yugoslavia*
@@crosby817 Yugoslavia was a bad idea from the beginning. The only way the Balkan could ever be truly united is either against a foreign power (like during the Ottoman times) or under one
Did it survive? No.
Is it alive in my heart? ,-_- yes
Ye man, rhodies never die!
Sorry about your heart attack then.
Sorry that your heart is segregated
@Didyouknowthatiexist ever heard of right and left atrium and ventricles? You're not the sharpest tool in a shed, are you?
Rhodesia would have a considerable migrant crisis due to having the most highly advanced economy in Africa and ironically also for holding the best living standards for Black Africans in Africa. It would have considerable tensions with the west due to a commitment to 19th century values and would likely see white immigration disproportionately from disenfranchised right wing westerners. Due to all this it would likely ironically have a close relationship to China who would have less ideological issues with the country even if Rhodesia itself likely would be a lot colder towards cooperation due to the hatred of communism. The place was a regional power even with the world against them so they undoubtedly would still be one. The amount of hatred for them in the west would be almost unimaginably as they would be a physical representation of the things that are currently demonized by the left, it wouldn't help that they would be the one of the most notable and powerful countries in Africa in large part simply by the fact of white leadership, and like Israel they would likely have a very impressive military which totally outmatchs all local threats combined despite being massively outnumbered. Nukes would also piss off America to no end as they won't be able to get involved in their usual nonsense. If apartheid still ended in South Africa guess where all the whites, Indians and Black minorities would go, South Africa would probably be even worse than it is without them.
I'll go out on a limb and say that they would probably also be the only country to official recognise Somaliland.
Whites, Indians and black minorities still make up a large portion of South Africa’s population today most whites in the apartheid regime were brainwashed into thinking that it wasn’t that bad or that they could do nothing about it
nonsense. zimbabwe was just rhodsiah with a black face. contrary to popular belief mugabe didnt nationalize anything until long after the economy and quality of life had went to shit. mubage let the landowners do what ever they wanted and crushed decent on their behalf. he only did land reform when he thought he would lose power and decided it would be better for his personal wealth and well being than an actual revolution. and for the little reform he did do he did not "steal" the land from white farmers they were paid for it for by both england and zimbabwe. but none of that happened for the first 20 years.
Eh I don't think so. Can you imagine how support for Rhodesia would make the CCP look to its other allies in Africa? Especially when (on paper) it claims to be a positive force on the continent as opposed the former colonial powers.
Add onto that, the one thing a free Rhodesia would want more than anything would be support and recognition from the West. In the new cold war Rhodesia would be the Saudi Arabia of Africa. In short if Western governments gain some sway over the country then the CCP would inevitably conduct a psyop campaign to turn the populace against the government.
Rhodesia would be an American ally, holding a similar geopolitical state to Israel IOTL; a western-style, prosperous democracy amongst a sea of struggling illiberal democracies or even autocracies, however, Rhodesia would have controversy for disenfranchising black Rhodesians, similar to the criticisms given to Israel on their treatment of Palestinians.
@@alleghenycounty40 Palestinians are not natives but ok
Make Zimbabwe Rhodesia Again!
Zimbabwe will remain Zimbabwe
The fall of Rhodesia is the biggest tragedy of Africa in the 20th century
Rwandan Genocide
@@boozashakes4254 not even close. Real tragedy is destroying beauties in life with a straight face. People kill each other all the time, that’s not tragedy, it’s routine
@@donaldlee8249 bro what?
@@donaldlee8249 Lmao thanks for outing your true colors
@@donaldlee8249Tf?
Ian Smith apparently lamented that if only Salazar could have stayed in power a few more years, the tide of the Bush War would have turned.
This video made my day. Long live Rhodesia!!!
I despise what Rhodesia became after Mugabe came to power but Salazar was just terrible. What is criticized about the regression of Zimbabwe was par for the course in Portugal under Salzar. The country has been left decades behind in economic, civilizational and cultural ways.
@Fabio Ribeiro would you mind elaborating on that?
From what I have read, Salazar seemed to be doing the best he was able to especially when it came to maintaining religious values, but then again I was not there.
@@albertturkington490 Religious value is fascist speak for keeping the population ignorant and obedient. The population lived in abject poverty, many were illiterate, infrastructure outside the main cities was practically non existent, many had to flee illegally to work abroad or escape conscription, the war was a lost cause for such a small country.
@@im_a_clown3354 não votei PS, mas já vi que irrite o chegando aqui do sitio. Típico facho.
@@fabioribeiro4627 clown
Great video mate. 🙏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👍🏻
As a white Zimbabwean of British descent ( formerly Rhodesian ) your video was very well informed about my country and made with a lot of key facts and possible/alternative outcomes. Great work. 👏🏻👏🏻👍🏻👍🏻👌🏻🇿🇼🇿🇼🇿🇼🇬🇧🇬🇧
@@Emel_unlegit You are the definition of a troglodyte
@Emel_unlegit I don't know if this is a joke but no, I do not agree with you on that. I do not support segregation!
@Emel_unlegit All people, regardless of race should always be treated with Loving-Kindness, Compassion and Respect. Every human, every race is good, worthy, equal, deserving of kindness as well as respect. No one is inferior. While I am very proud to be white and proud of my people, while I am opposed to woke, far left extremists, I do not condone racist language or hate speech from anyone! Many white Zimbabweans and South Africans today are also opposed to this hateful dogma. We have no time for hateful, racial Yankee ideals. It's time to evolve and move forward, not backwards. Always Be Kind.
@@Emel_unlegit Pardon me, did you actually just say you support Segregation??!
@@Emel_unlegit Like saying any of this excuses what you said earlier?
As one who lived in the country for 38 years both as Rhodesia in it's various stages and subsequently Zimbabwe, I found your video clip both interesting and informative. However there is one perhaps key point which I think the narrator overlooked and that was the attitude of the indigenous African population. For the most part we "whites" found those we most clearly relied on, to be loyal, hard working and we believed to be trustworthy, yet perhaps we disregarded one key element of the native workforce. That element was that the largely less educated African would tell the "white" employer what was believed, was wanted to hear rather than the actual truth. I realise that some may immediately identify me as "racist", which is not the case, I assure you. In my case, in1984,(after official "independence") my family moved to a small farm some 34 kms from the capital. We employed some 30 Africans in various capacities for the 8 years that we lived there. During that time I, who was most actively involved in the day to day running of the farm, naturally found several of the labour force to have more advanced skills, than others and such individuals became those one relied on most.
One in particular I thought to be the most trustworthy and of above average intelligence and he became one of the most valued workers we had. Admittedly we never really had any deep conversations about politics as employers seldom do with their employees. It was just assumed that the employees' views were reasonably akin to those of the employer. It came as something of an "uncomfortable surprise" to me, after leaving the farm in 1992, that the said valued employee, was in fact also a senior ranking member of the local branch of "Mugabe's" radical(to most whites) political party "Z.A.N.U", then in power.
I suppose that a fact that many overlook or simply ignore, is that whilst a colonial or even an "occupying" power may believe that they have subjugated the local population, there will always be an element of resentment by the locals against the unwelcome overlords..!
And??? Talk about a nothing statement.. lol
All that text to say people are dishonest. Wow. Imagine my shock.
Very similar to what I would see with whites in kenya. So during 1950s, the people who made British colonialists to get attacked were the house maids, the house maids would seem coy and subservient to white settlers but they collaborated with the resistance(MAUMAU) in abushing British colonialists. Just like you said, the locals only work for you as there are also no employment alternatives so it's better to work for the people whom you resent than starving. But the day an incitement against you occurs, they will be among the 1st people to light up the flame on you. And all that is dur to resentment. Currently, the chinese act worse but some are learning it painfully.
And that’s why you stricter migration controls, and a policy goal of one dominant ethnic group, choosing slower growth, is the preferable method of development.
If Rhodesia survived, it would be one of the best examples of a successful African country that other African countries could've replicated
Edit: I'm very pleased to see that this comment angered the right people
Rhodesians Never Die
the people talk same thing about South Africa
It's a white settler state. 🤦🏿♂️
@@filiperosa7496 because south africa was rich (for africa at that time)
maybe apartheid was bad but you have to admit that then they had a stable and even good economy (looking at today's economy in south africa)
A nation where a micro minority claims overlordship of millions, and those millions will just shrug and "go with it".
Might as well pretend Middle Earth was a real place too.
if Rhodesia survived BUT failed to reform it would have been an extremely divided state and unstable oligarchy, at best being like modern Russia.
A Republic cannot survive without the Plebeians getting the ability to prosper and a say in government. Having racist institutions on top of that makes any attempt at a truly prosperous Republic impossible long term.
Don't think Botswana would need to be passiefied, would definitely be stable on its own assuming Seretse Khama still comes into power in this timeline.
The only reason he remained unaligned was because of the KGB(mostly them) and CIA being trigger happy.
So in a more western aligned southern Africa he has no reason to remain unaligne.
It is also good to remember that Khama, despite his neutrality, was anti-communist. In our timeline, Botswana was not frontally hostile to the South African regime, but it was not its ally. In such a case, however, it is not difficult to imagine South Africa seeking to strengthen ties with Gaborone - perhaps ceding the part of its territory inhabited by the Tswanas (at the time, and today, more Tswanas live in South Africa than in Botswana).
In our timeline, South Africa attempted to grant "independence" to four Bantustans - two Xhosa, one Tswana and one Venda. However, in the scenario, it is possible that this process would have more legitimacy within the international community - with Ciskei, Transkei and Venda becoming sovereign states, and Botswana annexing Bophuthatswana and part of the northern Cape Province.
@@merijevonsNah, Botswana had no interest in taking Bophutatswana as they are busy on developing their country than taking land
It's worth noting that, first of all that Rhodesia didn't want to be in this central African Federation, they wanted to be a dominion, they agreed to join the CAF under the caveat that should it fail and dissolve, then all member states would receive independence, as was promised, Zambia was granted their independence, so was Malawi, but Rhodesia was not in spite of the agreement, this is largely due to a Labour government winning in the UK and dancing merrily towards Moscows tune
The Prime Minister tried to snub the Rhodesian Prime Minister, by not inviting him to a major event during talks in London, the Queen personally asked for the Rhodesian PM to attend
Anyone who doesn’t realize that Rhodesia was a domino that has continued until now all across the world is neglecting real history.
The west is paying the price for what they did to Rhodesia.
It went from "Bread Basket" to "Basket case"!
I was born in the mid 90's and I could tell you that we were the last generation to enjoy the fruits of Rhodesia. In 1st grade, I remember very clearly receiving a 5 cent rabbit coin that would last me a week up until 3rd grade when I won first price in my grade and the school gave me a red $500 note with a shiny ribbon. I remember companies coming to school giving us free gifts from food to stationary to clothes and entertainment during classes and man I was born and lived in the ghetto suburbs! But I also remember when it all went to sh*t right around 5th grade and we started using bearers cheques and what not. 7th & 8th grades were the worst as they coincided with a famine in 2007 and political instability of 2008. Not even gonna mention the hyperinflation of the century in 08. I watched it all right up until I took part in the 1 million man march on 17 Novermber, 2017 hoping that things were finally getting better and that the youth would take the country to the next stage of Zimbabwe's evolution. Many people believed we had won when Mugabe was ousted. For the first time in years, I believed there was a bright future. Fast forward a few months and I couldn't afford 50 cents transport money to go to a job interview to which I had to hike a stranger's car and got rejected at the gate because I couldn't grease the wheels of the security guard nor neither did I have "anyone on the inside." Simply being qualified wasn't enough! The last time I was in Zimbabwe, I spent 2 weeks hiding in the ceiling after the riots of January 19th, 2019 and when I got the chance to get out of Zimbabwe I went to the whitest country far far far away from home and established a life there and never looked back. I haven't been home in 4 years and I don't know when I'm ever gonna go back even though I can but I'm loved here, I'm flourishing here and I only think of Zimbabwe when I look at my life and think, how else would it have turned out had I not left? Home is home and I long for things to be better there, to use all my knowledge and skills for the getting Zim back on track to 1st place.
Sorry you had to go through that man. I live here over in neighboring Mozambique and things have looking pretty bad for a pretty long time too. Luckily I'm away from the center of conflict but I can't imagine what the people up north must have lived through. That being said I don't belive in any notions that life was better under the white man. I've had my grandfather tell me similar stories of how the Portuguese kept things in order and how much they did for us, but then I'll hear of my uncle and the immense roadblocks the Portuguese put in his life when he was trying to move up in the world simply because he was a native. These people never wanted the best for us and even if they did what business did they have thinking they could rule us, good riddance, we may be suffering now but we do so under our own terms and someday we will move out of this by our own merits.
Dam
So you just escaped the your supposed beloved homeland and expect someone else to fix it for you. And at that you escape to the “colonizer” countries that are starting to crack under the massive influx of migrants just look at France. Fleeing will not change anything but only harden the corruption and poverty as the leader have no incentive to improve the nation but to only continue to steal resources and pocket any money sent back from those like you to their families. How can a country like Singapore go from 3rd world to 1st standards in 30yrs but many African nations being independent far longer that have not improved.
it was the same in South Africa, i was born in the country, we all thought way back in 1994 when the evil mandela took over that the West would help to change the country for the best, and what happened, thye after forcing the white government to hand over the country to blacks rather turned around after they saw what evil they had been backing and now call the country a third world country ,
Great comment, we need more truth from this perspective. You've written nothing but truth and frankly, how can the country move forward with equal opportunity for all in a healthy environment based on lies and propaganda. Everybody needs to move forward based on an accurate depiction of the truth. The evils of the white governments had been propagated time and time again. We need more balance about some of the good things the whites did, also some good that Mugabe, etc did and especially the evils of the Mugabe government which haven't yet been revealed much at all. There needs healing and reconciliation but that needs TRUTH.
Zimbabwe, what a sad, sad history!
Dictators, especially communist dictators are not healthy for a country (or even its neighbours).
Rhodesia fell so far!
Thank you so much for exploring this alternate timeline.
If Rhodesia had survived there would be a MAJOR immigration problem. Cause the rest of Africa which is a sespit would have tried to get in - period.
So… it would have been South Africa… ironically, filled with illegal immigrants from Zimbabwean/Rhodesia
R is for the regiments who fight the winning fight...
H is for the home fires that the folks are keeping bright…
H is for the home fires that the folks are keeping bright...
H is for the homefires that the folks are keeping bright
H is for the homefires that the folks are keeping bright...
😂
@Monsieur Z O is for the other ranks and officers as well
Here's the story of Rhodesia,
A land both fair and great.
On the Eleventh of November,
An Independent State.
This was much against the wishes
Of certain governments,
Whose leaders tried to break us down
And make us all repent.
But we're all Rhodesians and we'll fight through thick and thin.
We'll keep our land a free land from the enemy coming in.
We'll keep them north of the Zambesi, till that river's running dry,
And this mighty land will prosper, for Rhodesians never die.
More like a "nation" where a tiny arrogant minority thought, "If we just tell the majority we will rule them forever, they will totally think that makes sense".
@@xandercruz900 Stay mad, idiot.
@@KriegZombie LOL! Who are the group of buttboys for Rhodesia, that were mostly born years later, that still post cringe poetry about the place, still big mad that the pesky African majority wouldn't just STFU and be ruled?
Wah, idiot.
Point to Rhodesia on a map. Oh wait…
@@vincentcangemi1686😂😂😂😂
It would have been one of the most unique countries in the world
A detritus of the racial caste system imposed by the Europeans. Unique is right.
@@TapOnX Wrong country pal, that's South africa, go grab a book instead of blindly listening to the "true" side of the story the media tells you
@@TapOnX Thats actually not the case, it would have been unequal, yes, a racial caste system, no, and ultimately the people would live better lives.
@@TapOnX Detritus? A strange name for a proud, soaring oak. What we have right now is the detritus. Majority rule was the worst thing to ever happen to Africa.
@@beepbop6542 It was a steaming craphole to everyone who was not white, with some very rare exceptions. The fact that Zimbabwe is still worse off, even when compared to other African countries is a consequence of the brilliant idea to disenfranchise 97% of the population.
Africa would have been a beacon of modern society if Rhodesia survived.
RIP Rhodesia, gone but not forgotten.
How? Rhodesia was poorer than Zimbabwe today.
For Africa to be a beacon of modern society, you'd have to have non blacks be in charge of the governments of all subsaharan african nations.
@@XandateOfHeaven nonsense lol
"For principle we made a stand. Courageous People, Splendid Land."
16:36 I vaguely remember a Rhodeisan guy saying Ian Smith was initially interested in this very idea, unfortunately it never happened. 😕
Ian was never a racist. He didn’t like communist though
@@blank1778 I never said he was, just to clarify. He did acknowledge that the native africans wanted to live amongst their own and not be forced into a white dominated society. Shame the rest of the colonies in afirca weren't governed this way. Would've made for a peaceful solution to the continent's racial issues.
@@jamesthomas5109 the native tribes are brainwashed by both the west and east. Every single country in Africa has a Cold War past all of these mass murders are all because of West vs east. We arm one side and radicalize them the east does the same it keeps it easy to exploit them. They aren’t educated people with a long tribal past that’s easy to twist against eachother
Its Freleeeeemo not Frellimo. What is it wth your 'L's and double 'L"s ?
The moment Mozambique and Angola became independent Rhodesia would not be able to survive. It was only a question of time. Even South Africa apartheid would not be able to survive. Facts confirmed that expectation.
12:18 Where’s Alsace?
German: “It’s Elsaß-Lothringen”. 😎👍
😅 Must’ve clicked the WW1 map.
@@MonsieurDean Well based. 👍
@@MonsieurDean no, it's the real map. Elsas-Lothringen is German, not French lmfao
@@snipman8067 cope barbarian
@@KydamiSinclairPhD The French are more barbaric lol
I’m heard a story about a Rhodesian farmer who was ordered to turn over his farm by the Mugabe government. Before leaving he burning down everything and ripped up all the irrigation equipment.
“They get it exactly as I found it.” -He said
Man I love all these African alt histories, but there one i want to see more than others. Day 57 of asking for what if the Zulu beat the British out of South Africa
It has not been forgotten!
Well, they did score a major victory ad isandlwana. The problem is that the Zulu Kingdom needs to industrialize to compete with the British, something it could not realistically do to the level it needed to.
@@undead9999 Gladstone was explicitly anti-imperialist. His explicit stance that colonial wars were to be avoided was what had lead to the rushed nature of the invasion of Zululand, as Bartleby-Frere knew he could count on no support from the metropole. Ceteswayo when he finally was platformed after Zululand's incorporation into Natal cut a very sympathetic figure while on tour in UK, leading to an overwhelming sense among the public that he had personally been dealt an underhanded blow by Bartleby-Frere, and ensuring a unique prominence of Zululand among all indigenous kingdoms in the historiography of the continent south of the Sahara. All it would have taken would be for Ceteswayo to have been able to make his case effectively to the UK public that his actions had been justified according to the norms of how governments behave with their neighbours more quickly than he had been in our timeline. The radio-telegraph would not be invented by Marconi until 1894, half a generation after the fall of the Kingdom of Zululand. But what if that changed?
@@undead9999 they would’ve signed an equal treaty with the English “Resources for tech”
Or use industrial machinery from Britains rivals like France and Germany who wanted South African influence
I don't think they'd honestly be able to kick them out but I could imagine an Italy-Ethiopia like situation.
"what a time it was"
"So few friends to turn to"
"What a time it was, when all we did was wrong"
We’ve broken all our bonds, but the struggle still goes on
What a time it was
@@joelhernstrom6060 and in 1965, the year of UDI
So you're okay with black people being slaves under a minority government? You people are a joke
Let’s go! Thank you, good sir :D really appreciate it, turns out I asked just at the right time for a remake of the What if Rhodesia survived.
CAUSE' WE'RE
ALL RHODESIANS AND WE WILL FIGHT THROUGH THICK AND THIN
TO KEEP OUR LAND A FREE LAND OF THE ENEMY COMIN' IN
WE'LL KEEP EM NORTH OF THE ZAMBEZI
TILL THAT RIVERS RUNNING DRY
AND THIS MIGHTY LAND WILL PROSPER FOR RHODESIANS NEVER DIE
This is one of those … “too bad this didn’t go another way” moments in history.
The fuck it was. Good riddance 👋
“I’m from Rhodesia”,
“Wait what! Don’t we say Zimbabwe now?!”
Do we?
Easier for the British and US governments to cut deals with corrupt Zimbabwe dictators than to have to negotiate a fair trade agreement with the Rhodesian government.
What wasn’t mentioned in the video is the main reason South Africa cut off their support to Rhodesia was because of Operation Eland. South Africa warned the Smith government not to expand the war into neighbouring countries, and Operation Eland saw the Rhodesian army enter Mozambique to destroy a ZANLA training camp. The Rhodesian forces disguised themselves as the enemy and opened fire on everyone in the camp; including many people who were unarmed and considered refugees. As a result South Africa thought distancing themselves from the Smith government was necessary.
Why would he mention that? He likes Rhodesia and what it stood for
@@lazerizer6895 I also think Rhodesia was far better than the alternatives. It should also be noted that the Rhodesian government justified their actions in shooting the civilians as they were held against their will and would have been compelled and radicalized into committing terrorist acts against Rhodesia. With that said, the event was still integral to Rhodesia’s downfall and important to mention nonetheless.
@@vnolan633 Since they were insurgents of an established government who sook their political goals through violence which included targeting civilians by definition they were terrorists. Saying they were justified is a whole other debate. After all, one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.
but just a few years later the SA government did exactly the same, took over South West Africa, fighting against black resistance groups on the borders of Angola and Rhodesia and Mozambique, and forced all white men to go do national service,which I am one of them, many didn't want to go do national service, , South Africa did exactly the same later, sent in a hit squad to Mozambique and killed people in a house, we were told those years in the late 1960/early 70s that Russia was planning on attacking SA, which was a lie, i spent a waisted year of my life doing national service,being terated as a second-grade citizen because I was English speaking, at one time many white South African policeman were sent to Rhodesia to help the fighting, during 1977 i spent close to 5 months on the South West Africa= Angola border,
What do you mean this is alternate history? Rhodesians never die!
😂 this so cringe
You sound like such a loser. Touch grass little boy.
The way this Yank pronounced Malawi💀
😂😂😂
Computer narrative. But even a native speaker might have sounded equally as empty.
What if the Boere Afrikaners (Boers) declared a new Boer republic(Volkstaat) today. (Vryburger Beweging)
one word a superpower
Well. South Africa granted self govern to Lesotho and Swaziland, I don't see why a Boer Republic couldn't happen even in the current world setting. Are there proposals in that sense? At the rate the country is going anyway the balkanization of SA is a concrete possibility
@@undead9999 Here's what would happen! The Boer Republic would 100x times out develop and become a self sufficient! first world country with high class living standards! etc, The black Republic would end up like Zimbabwe! etc, and many in their millions will try to immigrate to the Boer Republic!
@Große Scheiße Ja die dag sal kom! Ons manne maak al vir jare gereed en ons groei elke dag. Kom broer word wakker en staan op
@@LexlutherVII You call yourself the king of debates because you refuse to give up even when you are exteremely wrong.
What if Rhodesia survived, more like what if Malawi was huge
I don't think Rhodesia was in a position
to survive in any scenario however if
'Zimbabwe Rhodesia' had survived
another year I believe it would have
received recognition and support from
the Reagan administration
I do not cry for what is lost, I smile for what it was…
These Rhodesian never die!!
As a great man once said Keep your britain and I will keep my Zimbabwe 🇿🇼
Musavaone kuphava...
The great man that killed tens of thousands of Ndebeles and thousands of MDC voters?
❤️🇿🇼
Haitian migrants too, probably wallow in national pride while they soak up civilisation elsewhere.
What's 50 Cent's name in Zimbabwe?
$2,000
😂
Zimbabwean dollars *
Occupied Rhodesia*
More like 2 billion
Actually, it would have been significantly more that $100 billion Zimbabwean Dollars.
Israel is a great example of what happens when a super power holds onto a colonial client state for to long. What happened to Rohdisia is exactly why Israel is terrified of losing the United States as an allie. Both of these countries could not and cannot support themselves without an endless supply of military support. when the cost of upkeeping an apartheid colony is too much for the investors of the colony because of economic destabilization caused by conflict, the investors pull out. If the people of an area don't want to be ruled by a foreign power, eventually the struggle for self determination will be too much for the occupying force to maintain.
But Israeli are natives? What are you talking about?
@user-ig7gf3qt8j no. The Palestinians are native. The United States is occupying the Middle East through Israel for the purpose of influencing oil production and controlling trade routes.
@@fartsfartington9019 Nigga 💀💀💀 Jews are 3000 years old, arabs are only ~1500years old, what are you yapping about?
@@fartsfartington9019 Almost all Palestinian surnames are endemic to another country. Nice try though
Like America, for example. Quivering in its boots that native tribes might revolt when the UN decides to end Colonisation there.
Rhodesia fans in the comments talking like they lived in that country lmao thats like me saying I lived in Argentina before
@@vnolan633 So immigration bad when Whites do it? Got it
@@vnolan633 They go hand in hand. Immigration is what helped displace native people in Manchuria Palestine and even America. Immigration never helps the indigenous people
I am fascinated by the Hudsons bay company, british east India company (I think the Dutch had one as well) and this one I just learned about. The principle behind:" fuck it lets control all of this in the name of business" its really something!
almost all of european powers had that kinds of company, only one that did good were british and dutch
What a time it was
With so few friends to turn to...
What a time it was
When all we did seemed wrong.
Rhodesia had a right to exist.
Quite the interesting take, I've got a suggestion for a video... what if the Battle of Peking and Boxer Rebellion as a whole sparked a far larger conflict with the Eight-Nation Alliance and having the Qinq unilaterally and outright supporting the Boxers from the onset.
That sounds cool. I’d love more exploration of the Christian rebellions in asia (and if they won), specifically those that happened in china and japan. The taiping rebellion would be neat.
@@fh120 Agreed, those events are very rarely touched on in general, much less from a alt history perspective and its a bit of a shame that they are so overlooked, considering the impact they could of had if they had succeeded.
Love your content! Your videos are awesome!
Thanks, pal!
@@MonsieurDean I need to tell you this the scenario is really much realistic, I like your contect but there are some what If Italy.. The USA or Britain joined the central powers and those makes everything unrealistic
@@MonsieurDean The rest of this content proofed to be well one and the only most realistic about Rhodesia, but I wouldn't have gived to Rhodesia all of those South Mozambique lands for keep the shapes similar
@@AshleyGravesreal Italy literally had an alliance with the central power before the war, how is that not more realistic than our own timeline even.
Once you're a Rhodesian no other land will do
i have a mutual work colleague at my workplace who was born in 1977, then known as rhodesia.
i asked him what it was like back in those days and he said that it was the place to be.
i then asked him if rhodesia ever came back, would he fight for the resurrection of rhodesia.
his answer:
most definitely.
Gonna be a completely rational non racist comment.
A timeline with Rhodesia probably would’ve been better overall for the surrounding nations and it’s black inhabitants. The spread of communism would’ve been stalled if not drawn to a complete halt a lot faster because of heavy western influence right there. With the education system economy available to more natives and more job opportunities (if everything went well) could’ve been a beacon of racial unity in Africa.
If Rhodesia had survived it would have been the most successful country in this part of the world. A farming and agricultural paradise. Nothing to do with this inferno which is Zimbabwe to day. It’s a pity that we learnt nothing from this descent to hell. South Africa is the next home of the devil…
More people will be alive and there would never have been famines.
Imagine a country where infrastructure was perfect, economy strong and social services better than Europe.
I feel sorry for the Rhodies.
A once respectable country given up to a people that let it go to hell
Rhodesian Sigma Grindset
8:18 chad gang: Portugal, Israel, Japan, Persia and Rhodesia
The UK had a lot of blood on its hands, especially after Muzorewa was elected as Prime Minister. The UK should have supported the new Govt entirely in order to continue the fight against the Socialist-backed rebels. The entire West was fighting the cold war against just such regimes everywhere else, so why not in Rhodesia? The UK purposefully ignored the situation in order to focus on its cold-war, anti Soviet doctrine. All they needed to do was lift the sanctions and allow Rhodesia (under Muzorewa) to continue the fight. It would have survived and prospered.
Wasn't Malawi called Nyassaland in the time of the CAF?
We all know what would've happened if Rhodesia would still exist. It would 100% be the most economically powerful and prosperous country in Africa. Rhodesians never die!
Good day, Ludwig. Rhodesia was a great country. Not because I am South African, but because it is my reasonable submission. South Africa, if not destroyed by the ANC, would have been the powerhouse of Africa and probably in the top 10 countries in the world economically. No, doUbt Rhodesia and the old SA WOULD HAVE DOMINATED.
Delusional nonsense. The whole narrative that Rhodesia was prosperous is based on nothing. Rhodesia was poorer than Zimbabwe is today, if it were a country now it would be the third poorest. In 1979 that had essentially the day GDP per capita as Cameroon and Zambia, and was lower than Gabon and Botswana.
There is no basis to believe that Rhodesia would have been better than an English speaking Brazil.
Same with South Africa, but both nations made the choices they made and one is now gone while the other went down the tube in less than 30 years.
Didn't you make this a couple years back, or is this a reupload/redo
It’s a remake
Interesting vid, glad to have been here so early
Early bird crowd.
I remember barrack 177, how we polished up the windows and the floor...
Thanks
You're welcome, pal.
I'll join in the fun with the Rhodesian songs.
"Thank you girl for waiting, while I went on many stints..."
What song is this?, I've never heard this one.
@@zionmolina3039 rhodie girl
@@undead9999 thanks for telling me I'll give it a listen.
@@zionmolina3039 It's good, but my favourite is still "the great white tribe"
This is the real Rhodesia that I dreamed about and that Rhodesia that should exist in our world!!!
Korean rhodesiaboo now I've seen it all.
the good ending: rhodesia and sourh africa remain as they once were
Not for the blacks who were forced on reservations
@@domdom6624 with the social changes which are inevitable, blacks in both nations in the 21st century would've been much better off from their parents/grandparents and definitely would've enjoyed a far higher standard of living that the rest of the blacks in the entire continent had these 2 nations kept their white governments.
Then it would be a normal country. Make Zimbabwe Rhodesia again.
@@Walter_Stroud Well the problem is that China is building new empire, and West has to finally see it and fight against it.
the problem with a large scale south african intervention in angloa would be if cuba started to loose then there is high chance the soviet union would get directly involved earlier and send large numbers of soldiers to angola to back up cuba and if the sovets/ cuban forces the south africans to withdraw it either force united states to get directly involved in combat or using the cia or the us would attempt to force the south africans to leave or face sanctions.
which would be an even more pro soviet angola and weaker south africa that has been militarily defeated by the soviets directly. which could cause an earlier collapse of apartheid and independence of south west africa.
also it may embolden the middle east to become even more aggressive towards israel and weaken the united states postion in the region.
the chinese may become even more friendly towards the united states and anti soviet, which may mean india becomes even more aggressive towards pakistan and futher enters teh soviet sphere.
this fact may sound like a joke but did you know that Zimbabwe's first president was named Canaan Banana and they even passed a law to stop people making fun of his name
It would be sooo much better because Rhodesia just sounds better. “Zimbabwe”…..
Zombiebwe
Salisbury too, instead of the Harare name because it used to be a native Reservation next to our settlement Lochinvar, which is (still) 7miles West of Salisbury.
You really didn't do your research on Cecil Rhodes
My Mumma is from Zimbabwe. Botn when it was Rhodesia. Shes Shona. Had Ian Smith, not been aparthied-lite, he woildve kept power, not been isolated and the country probably wouldve not gone down the current path. On a lighter note, got a pair of Waxi boots coming in the mail.
Rhodesia to Zimbabwe, Bread Basket to basket case, Government to genocide, farming to famine, work to war.