Z8 is the most well rounded mirrorless camera available hands down, this is a proper Nikon professional body in a compact form factor as many users including myself were expecting from the first iteration of Z cameras. We finally got it in the Z8. This camera leaves me wanting for nothing, a tradesman never blames his tools. Can’t wait to get my hands on this 😍
As a birder, yes. Nikon Z8 does check many of the boxes. But I am waiting for the Z version of the D500. Hopefully with a stacked sensor and at least 26MP.
Is it enough? You can always ask that question about anything. My question is, did they pick the right set of specs for a $4000 camera? It's a lot of money, but for me, it's as close as you can reasonably expect. I will be upgrading from a D500. I wanted the 45mpx sensor, live view, and a blackout free viewfinder. Almost went for the R5. 12 to 15 fps would have worked for me, but why throttle back the existing tech. I don't need the 8k video, but that comes with the 45mpx sensor. One CF express card slot would work for me, but holy $#!+, we don't want to go through that again. I think it's a smart move on Nikon's part. There is a whole different level of users waiting for this. It's not the end of Nikon's innovation. Hopefully, there is enough room in the processor to handle a few updates. I would love to see pre-capture work in raw. You are calling it a flagship, I don't think Nikon is. Nikon is calling it a true D850 replacement. Almost 6 years later, is it worth $700 more than the D850 was when it launched?
Agree with its you !! It’s a great camera, Z9 is. But after two years I was expecting a bump in Af performance. I shoot canon and Sony as well, and you can definitely see a difference in AF performance
I am sort of a Nikon fanboy, but I am somewhat dissapointed that this long awaited release was just more or less a smaller Z9 - and I ask myself: What are all the engineers doing in Nikon’s software department? They seem to hardly come up with anything new in eighteen months except airplane recognition AF?
I hear you - but in those 18 months some pretty huge firmware updates have rolled out to the z9 and now at re in v1 of z8. Also skin soft wining and heif. But way more up to firmware 3.0
And in those 18 months, Canon & Sony have not been sitting on their hands. We'll get an idea soon when Canon releases the R5ii & we see what improvements have been put into it.
Similar to how the Sony A7R5 actually has better AF than the 2 year older A1 (with respect to identifying subjects), it could have been a confidence booster to Nikon shooters to see Nikon make improvements there.
@@mattgranger Sony now has a bunch of A1 users vowing never to spend money on their cameras ever again because the A1 has received the software advancements of lower cameras. Too funny. Can’t win either way.
@@mattgranger Possibly. Canon also did something similar, as I have seen many reviewers say the new R6II has better AF than the R3. So Canon and Sony have both shown they want to move AF performance forward, even if it means a newer, lower camera in their lineup may outperform their flagship in some aspects. Nikon should probably do the same, especially as the main criticism for Nikon seems to be their AF is still lagging Sony and Canon. For instance, if a Nikon Z6III is released next year with the same AF as the Z9, would that really match the R6II?
A thing to consider is that the Z9 itself isn't the same camera it was at launch. Under the hood it has improved significantly. The Z8 inherits those updates. Furthermore, because of the shared architecture, it's likely that it'll be easier for Nikon to continue to update both cameras in tandem.
For me, it is enough to finally jump into mirrorless. The z7 and 6 are fine cameras but I just couldn’t go from the d850 ergonomics and feel. I sent my z7 right back to Adorama a couple years ago when I bought it and decided to hope Nikon released something with a closer feel to the d850. So I’m very happy with this. I did get a z6ii as a backup which helped me realize mirrorless is so fun to shoot with so my plan going forward is to sell my z8 when the new model is released and pay the difference.
I agree. I'm even upgrading from a D300, which had been great for me now for 15 years. It was extra work for me sometimes to get what I wanted, but it did the job well. Plus, life budgets haven't allotted me the extra funds for a new high end camera. Once I recently got the funds to upgrade, I couldn't see myself going with the cameras that interested me, 1 that has been out since 2017 and an old dying format in DSLR (d850), and 2nd one which had some issues with auto focus which is more important to me now, that just barely kept me from the 7II. This camera covers all of those needs for me now.
A more interesting question is what do you think should have been added or innovated in a lower model than Z9? I’m sure there was progress and innovation but why would they put it in the Z8 and kill their “flagship”?
I did a whole video on what I had hoped to see. Look at the Sony A1 and A7R5. The A1 is the flagship, but its 2 years old and the R5 has plenty of new features that are 'ahead' of the A1.
@@mattgranger I’ll check that out. The A1 and A7r5 are also not even remotely in the same segment of cameras. Z9 and Z8 are and because of that I think Nikon was limited in what they could add to the Z8.
@@mattgranger A7R5 has one of the slowest sensors in a current camera and because of that is limited in use for video and photo. A1 is the opposite. If someone needs an A1 for work a A7R5 won’t be able to replace it without severe compromises. That’s I why I think they are in different segments. Price has nothing to do with it. Z8 can do everything the Z9 can do (and really the A1 too - sync speed is drawback) outside of some minor buffer, battery life and record limit differences.
@jaymc5011 I thought you made your point, the firmware progress has been good. That was the progress. And yes all I want is a cheaper Z9 to replace my D850, given the Z9's awesome AF.
To be fair, resolution of both viewfinder and screen are the biggest complaints besides AF since the Z6 and 7ii. So.... Yes, they could do better. Maybe Z9ii lighter, and with higher resolution viewfinder.
Well, I'm waiting on V2 once that lands... ill get the z long lenses for birding. I think a better offload of images to the cards would be lovely... if they made the cards symmetrical there could be a mode on wich the offload is to A card and the B card and that way they could have unlimited shooting
Matt, you have to understand, the z8 assumes the specs of the z9, so that the z9 mk2 can step up and be at the same level as Canon's R1. The R1 was renamed to R3.
And so is Canon & Sony. Canon is about to drop the R5ii & an R1 is on it's way. Who knows what Sony is working on. Nikon needs to realize they're not competing in a vacuum
Matt, I share your frustration. The Sony FX lineup was going to meet my cinematic asperations. However their evolution has been at a snail's pace. Not to mention the cost of anamorphic lenses. All that you have said is correct. What has been delivered is just enough to keep us coming back as Nikon customers.
I like the way Nikon is carefully and with thought bringing these cameras out. We don’t need a new camera every three months. We need great cameras when they are ready.
@@mattgranger Yes because Nikon is looking at their entire line. And part of releasing a new camera falls in line with their other models. For example bring the Z8 out to soon and you hurt sales of the Z9. They invested a lot of money in the Z9 they have to protect that investment.
I agree, however can we say that competitors are putting immature cameras on the market ? Even though at a much shorter cycle then Nikon. I don't believe so.
@@Cervin_Suisse Remember when Sony was flooding the market with camera after camera. Each one seemingly to fix issues the last one had. I prefer Nikons approach.
Isnt the reason to bring out the Z8 1.5y is to maximize the potentia of customers who were interested in new technology have not yet brought to the market a cheaper product with the same capabilities?
There's two ways to look at this. The way that basically, they took 18 months to saw off the grip of the Z9. Or, that they have leapfrogged the competition substantially for this camera segment. And also, that next year is an olympic year, and as such, some resources over those 18 months have been devoted to the development of a Z9 II. Given that the Z8 and Z9 are so similar, I don't think that's unlikely.
I’m thinking this is absolutely perfect at least for my needs and I can now let my Z6ii be a backup and use one of the now best cameras on the market. Some could say it is the best. I’m excited to see what Nikon does next but for me, I’m ecstatic 🤩
Is it enough? For me, yes! It is a smaller, lighter camera with nearly all of the features of their flagship. That is unheard of! Also, this is a stacked sensor with a high readout speed and high write speed simultaneously to the memory card and to the EVF, powered by the EXPEED 7 processor. If the sensor size were increased, they would need a faster readout, a faster EVF, a faster monitor, and a faster card write speed to keep the same frame rate; otherwise, the speeds would need to be reduced. This is a system, and you can't change just one component without changing the others. It isn't as simple as swapping a 45 MP sensor for a 61 MP sensor, as some suggest.
Nothing wrong with the camera. But, I would of liked to see a stickier AF for fast moving small birds , & guessing the low light AF works as expected to keep up with the competition, (hope so). Other than that, considering the price point for a stacked sensor, it is a great deal if 8o - 85% of your photos are in focus.
I also think we could ask ourselves something else. Given that the Z8 does trump other cameras in its segment in a number of ways, it’s probably fair to say that it will attract people who’d otherwise go for a Z7 III instead. The only reason they’re not going for the Z7 III, is that that camera doesn’t exist yet, and the Z7 II’s AF system doesn’t have the best reputation. But, might this be an incentive for Nikon to actually hold off on releasing the Z7 III? Because presumably the profit margin on the Z8 is larger, and if you’re already invested in Nikon, you might be willing to pay extra for the Z8, because it could still be more economical than switching brands.
Regarding the EVF, I know that that was one of the things you'd hope they'd update. But in the DPR review, for example, they mention that the specs don't do it justice. And I've seen many people commenting that they would take brightness over resolution any day. Also, cameras like the A1 switch to a lower res mode when autofocusing. Which is actually said to be a jarring experience. But then Tony and Chelsea seem to favour higher-res EVFs. Meanwhile I'm still using a D750, so I really don't know what to make of it. Regarding autofocus, also a point you raised, I think there might be more leeway in getting improvements through firmware updates.
The Z8 is the body I have been waiting for but my D850 sits in backup mode while my Z6 fills my commercial photographic needs. My keeper rate with AF has never been better(but I am not shooting fast sports in close) and in a 500 shot location shoot or in the studio I might get two missed focus. That is better than my employee gets which his R5 Canon, and before that he had a Sony that was not as good. There are a lot of beginners who seem to think the camera is supposed to make all the decisions. The handling and reliability matter to me so I do not buy Sony, and Canon, which I used to shoot in my film days, has cheapened the construction and ruggedness in the R series to lower to the Sony level, which never was built well or handled well.
I think some minor new features have been rolled out directly to the Z9, which we can also find on the Z8 now. But yeah, that prevents the Z8 announcement to be exiting.. I am eagerly awaiting a Z6 III!!!
What prevents them to replace the less performant expeed tandem processors with the newer one and limit some video capabilities ? If the less heat dissipating housing of the Z6ii and Z7ii is the limiting factor ?
The idea of a price competitive flagship is excellent is in my opinion but why did it take nearly 2 years to repackage an already developed prodeuct ? Also lots of frustrated customers who were expecting the release of a refreshed camera line up.
@Matt Granger yes the delay was obviously not caused by technical reasons. Matt, what's your educated guess about the next bodies that will be released? Here in Switzerland Nikon just started promotions, they dropped the prices on some Z6 ii kits up to USD 700.-. This, I think, is announcative of something to come.
@@mattgranger Ok, thank you Sir. That poses a dilemma for me and surely for thousands of Nikon enthusiasts around the world. Buy the Nikon /6ii now at a bargain price(USD 2235.- with that great 20-1200 F4.0 S lens), with its relatively underperforming autofocus, or wait for either a refreshed version of it or an all new body. I transited to mirrorless from years of using Nikon by purchasing a Nikon Z50, while acquiring FX lenses to prepare for the jump over to full frame. Unfortunately I have even experiencing several problems with the Z50 which I sent it for repair. It came back with the same ailments, really disappointing. So I now have to send it in again hoping that this time the Nikon repair service will check it more thoroughly based on my list of defects. Did you hear of users having reliability issues with their Z 50 bodies ? I never saw RUclipsrs who compiled and catalogued breakdowns and issues with various camera brands. I think that would be useful to many, don't you think ? Or is there such a repository I'm not aware of ?
I think if the RED lawsuit hadn't happened the Z8 would have been released a lot earlier. Which explains why it isn't hugely different than the Z9. It's been on the Nikon shelf waiting.
Overheating for video is a step back. Of course overheating was going to be worse than the Z9. But I expect it to be significantly better than the Canon R5 and Sony A1. Otherwise, the Z8 looks like a very good camera.
Most users haven't even exhausted the features of the Z6ii and the z7ii. Why is there an expectation that camera makers should keep delivering new features almost on a weekly basis?
I still can't comprehend why the auto focus is not at par with the competition. Obviously they know what they need to do to match it. Where is the hangup ? Patents ?
z9 is the main flagship. they only want the z8 for those who can't afford the z9. z8 is a nice hybrid between the z7 and z9. i hope the z8 price will come down more. lol :p
I think it's a perfectly logical step on Nikon's part. I might be prejudiced, having been a Nikon shooter for over 54 years. It doesn't make sense that you would release a body that technically usurps the capabilities of the Z9 for less $$. It seems targeted towards folks who don't need the high end pro-features such as the bigger battery and dual CFExpress card slots but want all the other features.
The mixed card slots, a step to madness. The imperfections in focus, disappointing. The price? I'd hoped for a good thousand $ less. And overheating?That would infuriate me. Gasoline and rent and car prices have gone up tenfold since the F2 debuted, but electronics of all sorts have improved ten fold at huge price drops. Which leaves the Z8 as a what? Not all we'd hoped.
And also… can a camera from Nikon be considered flagship if it is not designed with an integrated vertical grip? This would be breaking w tradition. I think you are right on when you say it’s a smaller camera with basically the same guts. Surely it would be called the z10 if it were the next flagship and not a number lower than the last flagship.
IMO, no - the Z8 is not a flagship, the Z9 with the integrated grip is. But - this is tricky, given how close their capabilities are. I'm starting to feel like no matter what camera companies do - people will find something to complain about. Maybe that's just human nature. But man these newer bodies are magical, I can't ask for more.
@@csc-photo maybe I’m nuts but I wasn’t complaining with the d2xs. I don’t personally see the point of eye autofocus, just move the selector to where the eye is according to how you want to frame the image and then autofocus…. I would never EVER use 3d matrix or auto tracking while shooting a model. Unless I am at the ski slopes or the race track, I almost exclusively use single point autofocus and the multi selector button. I go through an entire modeling shoot and come away with 50-60 photos for an hour, probably 10 variations of 5-6 poses I am looking for and that’s it, I just don’t see this 20fps need and active 3d tracking on a person standing still. That has always been way more work than it is worth in the real world. Just my .02
It’s not enough , but it’s expected , Nikon technological dependency on Sony and programming habilitéis limits (they can’t focus with a slow readout sensor) means than the D850 and the Z7 have better image quality ,no new resolution and no new viewfinder. They also removed the GOS. It’s sad but when the next generation of Canon and Sony cameras arrive I don’t know if Nikon will be able to do anything but stop prices.
Like clockwork. By the time Sony and Canon release their next top models the Z9 will be 3+ years old and people will be saying wait until the next generation of Nikon camera is released.
Sod the Z8, Nikon should have released a prosumer Z6iii with some of that tech. Most Z6/Z7 owners don’t realise how far behind those cameras are with tech including the m2 versions vs the competition. I jumped the Nikon ship (after 15 years) 18 months ago after giving up waiting. Tried the Sony system before settling with the Canon R5.
I do agree with you, as Sony A9 / 200-600 user looking around at other systems. But Nikon (for my needs) looks to have the best glass currently. I agree on the Z6III, and who is to say it won't come in Autumn this year? But they need to bring up tech like BEAF, to the equivalent Canon has done, and trickled down into their budget range..
It is definitely enough as a step up from my z6. It is already expensive enough. Don’t want to pay more for things that doesn’t matter much like 9MP viewfinder. Really. What else isn’t state of the art?
The question is…. Have we reached the end of ingenuity and development regarding photography tech, OR is there simply no demand for more advanced technology from the photographic community?
I don't think this is as much about ingenuity as it is truly competing. As Nikon users, we're seeing Sony & Canon move ahead in the AF department & Nikon is playing catchup.
Idk what you mean .. is it enough? Nikon gave a camera with no crippling for 4000usd. I expected it to be 36mpxl with maybe 6k recording.. but they gave z9 specs.. why do youtubers have to complain so much.. this camera is way better than r5 and a7r5.. and that’s all we need to know..
Is it enough? I think yes, its not a D5-D6 scenario, its not an upgrade to the Z9 its a small profile Z9. Is the expectation we get more than a Z9 offers? Was the consumer expectation more, of course, have we waited to long for a smaller profile body? YES. This should have been out a longer time ago, for me the Z9 has no limits, the Z8 does, Z9 handles the heat, the same card slots, but thats the choice, shoot pictures, video, have a smaller foot print, happy consumers, pro’s will still go Z9 and Z8 2nd body for size reasons.What is clear from testing is the Z8 or not a small Z9, its the Z7III. The Z8 fits me, i shoot mainly images, i want a light body, i dont shoot video much at all and i dont want 61mpx sensor. Z8 Fits my ask along with a lot of people that are transitioning, have lots of Z6II batterys, D850 batterys, have lots of SDXC cards left over, so wont mind the grip either. I think you cant satisfy all the people all of the time, the Z9 is great, the Z8 is great, the Z6II and Z7II the D850 are also great. What matters is do you get the shots, do you get the video? Do you enjoy yourself? For me i do.
The Z8 will serve the Nikon stills diehards well enough, but otherwise fails to further the brand in the marketplace. By the time Canon, Sony, and Panasonic roll out their next generation offerings, Nikon will end up a distant fourth in full frame hybrids. I have a Z9 and it’s fine, but increasingly I feel as though the Z system has boxed me into a dead end, and though I love the ergonomics for stills, I’m starting to evaluate other brands for my future hybrid purchasing.
I was hardly interesseted in the z8 iam currently at d810 and d700 and this kamera impresses me not. So i have still to wait, till they fixed all the issues, or bring my desired camera.
@@nyambe You cannot cut corners, you have to go the long way. Nikon step into the mirrorless game for to late. So the af performance is crap and still crap, even wird z 6ii or7 ii. Then nikon turns out you will with these cameras never reach the performance of z9 cause of the lack of processor performance. So this cameras will not fit my needs anyhow. Now Z8 AF crap especially the eye af is.....crap as fack. EVEN Canon has the better af. So i will stick to my cameras because they have still the best af i can relay on. And what we learned from this, it is like it is.
Nikon is making grt hybrid bodies but nikon lacks hybrid lenses. A good ecosystem is needed for someone to really get into a brand its not the body always. DearNikon pls make high quality 1.4 S line primes with a optimum balance of quality, charecter, weight n price affordability of set of highquality primes n ease of using them on field is imp for hybrid shooters especially event shooters .
Its nothing special its still big and heavy , its the same 2.5 years old tech of Z9, Its like they had this in their back pocket for years probably was made at the same time as Z9 but not released . They needed a more up to date Z6III and Z7III. Better screen EVF and auto focus as good as Sony
The Z8 really isn't the flagship, and it really wouldn't make sense for them to make a $4000 camera that has major improvements over the $5500 camera. If so, there'd really be no reason to buy the real flagship anymore. They'll put major improvements into the next flagship, and then introduce the smaller less expensive version after that, just like they did with the Z9 and Z8.
Isn't more like " all the development was done and the money spent, let's accelerate the ROI with a model that has a much bigger market share capturing potential " ?
Tech has come a long way. Everything that was possible in a flagship 10 years ago is now in a $2k camera. But new flagships can do more - and don things $2k cameras cannot.
@@mattgranger tell me one thing a 2k camera can’t do than a 5k camera. Focus is at this point where you just don’t fail anymore. Video is at 4/8k and more than enough for 90% of the people. Dynamic Range is a Monster in any modern camera. ISO is more like night vision nowadays. If you know what you’re doing it’s more than enough
8k video. 20-30fps with full metering and accurate focus. Internal raw recording of video. 120FPS jpeg or high res video. 2x digital crop in. ProRes Raw. Off the top of my head.
It’s called marketing and many dummies will go out and buy the Z8 anyway. There’s a camera for everyone and any company that doesn’t know how to release new gear strategically will fail. It doesn’t have to make sense to the consumer as long as the company’s pockets are being lined with profit. Keep buying the latest and greatest while they get richer and richer🤣🤣 At some point you have to stop and say “This is all I need”.
Z8 is the most well rounded mirrorless camera available hands down, this is a proper Nikon professional body in a compact form factor as many users including myself were expecting from the first iteration of Z cameras. We finally got it in the Z8.
This camera leaves me wanting for nothing, a tradesman never blames his tools. Can’t wait to get my hands on this 😍
As a birder, yes. Nikon Z8 does check many of the boxes. But I am waiting for the Z version of the D500. Hopefully with a stacked sensor and at least 26MP.
I should have bought a D500 when it first came out. Looks awesome.
@@martinXY D500 is pretty affordable in the preowned market. It hasn’t held up as much as expected. Seen them sub $750.
Is it enough? You can always ask that question about anything. My question is, did they pick the right set of specs for a $4000 camera? It's a lot of money, but for me, it's as close as you can reasonably expect. I will be upgrading from a D500. I wanted the 45mpx sensor, live view, and a blackout free viewfinder. Almost went for the R5. 12 to 15 fps would have worked for me, but why throttle back the existing tech. I don't need the 8k video, but that comes with the 45mpx sensor. One CF express card slot would work for me, but holy $#!+, we don't want to go through that again. I think it's a smart move on Nikon's part. There is a whole different level of users waiting for this. It's not the end of Nikon's innovation. Hopefully, there is enough room in the processor to handle a few updates. I would love to see pre-capture work in raw.
You are calling it a flagship, I don't think Nikon is. Nikon is calling it a true D850 replacement. Almost 6 years later, is it worth $700 more than the D850 was when it launched?
Not a flagship 🤔
Then what is it???
Its a Z9 in smaller body. In 18 months Nikon gave nothing new but a smaller, cheaper flagship.
Agree with its you !! It’s a great camera, Z9 is. But after two years I was expecting a bump in Af performance. I shoot canon and Sony as well, and you can definitely see a difference in AF performance
I am sort of a Nikon fanboy, but I am somewhat dissapointed that this long awaited release was just more or less a smaller Z9 - and I ask myself: What are all the engineers doing in Nikon’s software department? They seem to hardly come up with anything new in eighteen months except airplane recognition AF?
I hear you - but in those 18 months some pretty huge firmware updates have rolled out to the z9 and now at re in v1 of z8. Also skin soft wining and heif. But way more up to firmware 3.0
And in those 18 months, Canon & Sony have not been sitting on their hands. We'll get an idea soon when Canon releases the R5ii & we see what improvements have been put into it.
Absolutely, it's enough.
Similar to how the Sony A7R5 actually has better AF than the 2 year older A1 (with respect to identifying subjects), it could have been a confidence booster to Nikon shooters to see Nikon make improvements there.
That’s actually the opposite. They updated the new camera despite being a lower model… should NIKON have done the same?
@@mattgranger Sony now has a bunch of A1 users vowing never to spend money on their cameras ever again because the A1 has received the software advancements of lower cameras. Too funny. Can’t win either way.
@@mattgranger Possibly. Canon also did something similar, as I have seen many reviewers say the new R6II has better AF than the R3. So Canon and Sony have both shown they want to move AF performance forward, even if it means a newer, lower camera in their lineup may outperform their flagship in some aspects. Nikon should probably do the same, especially as the main criticism for Nikon seems to be their AF is still lagging Sony and Canon. For instance, if a Nikon Z6III is released next year with the same AF as the Z9, would that really match the R6II?
So must a manufacturer hold back an A7 model, because they don't want to upset an A1 user?
A thing to consider is that the Z9 itself isn't the same camera it was at launch. Under the hood it has improved significantly. The Z8 inherits those updates. Furthermore, because of the shared architecture, it's likely that it'll be easier for Nikon to continue to update both cameras in tandem.
Yep good point.
For me, it is enough to finally jump into mirrorless. The z7 and 6 are fine cameras but I just couldn’t go from the d850 ergonomics and feel. I sent my z7 right back to Adorama a couple years ago when I bought it and decided to hope Nikon released something with a closer feel to the d850. So I’m very happy with this. I did get a z6ii as a backup which helped me realize mirrorless is so fun to shoot with so my plan going forward is to sell my z8 when the new model is released and pay the difference.
I agree. I'm even upgrading from a D300, which had been great for me now for 15 years. It was extra work for me sometimes to get what I wanted, but it did the job well. Plus, life budgets haven't allotted me the extra funds for a new high end camera. Once I recently got the funds to upgrade, I couldn't see myself going with the cameras that interested me, 1 that has been out since 2017 and an old dying format in DSLR (d850), and 2nd one which had some issues with auto focus which is more important to me now, that just barely kept me from the 7II. This camera covers all of those needs for me now.
A more interesting question is what do you think should have been added or innovated in a lower model than Z9? I’m sure there was progress and innovation but why would they put it in the Z8 and kill their “flagship”?
I did a whole video on what I had hoped to see. Look at the Sony A1 and A7R5. The A1 is the flagship, but its 2 years old and the R5 has plenty of new features that are 'ahead' of the A1.
@@mattgranger I’ll check that out. The A1 and A7r5 are also not even remotely in the same segment of cameras. Z9 and Z8 are and because of that I think Nikon was limited in what they could add to the Z8.
Segments can be hard to define. The A1 is $2500 more than the A7R5, the Z9 is only $1500 more than Z8.
@@mattgranger A7R5 has one of the slowest sensors in a current camera and because of that is limited in use for video and photo. A1 is the opposite. If someone needs an A1 for work a A7R5 won’t be able to replace it without severe compromises. That’s I why I think they are in different segments. Price has nothing to do with it. Z8 can do everything the Z9 can do (and really the A1 too - sync speed is drawback) outside of some minor buffer, battery life and record limit differences.
Well, it did get upgraded to FW ver. 2.01 (as of 22 May 24)
Yep. Whats the point?
Sorry, guess I didn’t comment correctly. I do like the upgraded AF with v. 2.01
@jaymc5011 I thought you made your point, the firmware progress has been good. That was the progress. And yes all I want is a cheaper Z9 to replace my D850, given the Z9's awesome AF.
To be fair, resolution of both viewfinder and screen are the biggest complaints besides AF since the Z6 and 7ii.
So.... Yes, they could do better. Maybe Z9ii lighter, and with higher resolution viewfinder.
That would do nothing except eat batteries faster.
Well, I'm waiting on V2 once that lands... ill get the z long lenses for birding. I think a better offload of images to the cards would be lovely... if they made the cards symmetrical there could be a mode on wich the offload is to A card and the B card and that way they could have unlimited shooting
Matt, you have to understand, the z8 assumes the specs of the z9, so that the z9 mk2 can step up and be at the same level as Canon's R1. The R1 was renamed to R3.
Ok boss 🫡
I would think nikon is working on new tech for the next z9
And just did with the release of firmware 4.0
And so is Canon & Sony. Canon is about to drop the R5ii & an R1 is on it's way. Who knows what Sony is working on. Nikon needs to realize they're not competing in a vacuum
@Matt do you think it's worth 4000 dollars?
Matt, I share your frustration. The Sony FX lineup was going to meet my cinematic asperations. However their evolution has been at a snail's pace. Not to mention the cost of anamorphic lenses. All that you have said is correct. What has been delivered is just enough to keep us coming back as Nikon customers.
I like the way Nikon is carefully and with thought bringing these cameras out. We don’t need a new camera every three months. We need great cameras when they are ready.
Totally agree it’s best to release when they’re ready. Do you really think this required 18 months to be ready after the z9?
@@mattgranger Yes because Nikon is looking at their entire line. And part of releasing a new camera falls in line with their other models. For example bring the Z8 out to soon and you hurt sales of the Z9. They invested a lot of money in the Z9 they have to protect that investment.
I agree, however can we say that competitors are putting immature cameras on the market ? Even though at a much shorter cycle then Nikon. I don't believe so.
@@Cervin_Suisse Remember when Sony was flooding the market with camera after camera. Each one seemingly to fix issues the last one had. I prefer Nikons approach.
@@mattgranger I don't see how that could possibly be. Unless they have limited resources or they were mobilized on developing other products.
Isnt the reason to bring out the Z8 1.5y is to maximize the potentia of customers who were interested in new technology have not yet brought to the market a cheaper product with the same capabilities?
There's two ways to look at this. The way that basically, they took 18 months to saw off the grip of the Z9. Or, that they have leapfrogged the competition substantially for this camera segment. And also, that next year is an olympic year, and as such, some resources over those 18 months have been devoted to the development of a Z9 II. Given that the Z8 and Z9 are so similar, I don't think that's unlikely.
I’m thinking this is absolutely perfect at least for my needs and I can now let my Z6ii be a backup and use one of the now best cameras on the market. Some could say it is the best. I’m excited to see what Nikon does next but for me, I’m ecstatic 🤩
Is it enough? For me, yes! It is a smaller, lighter camera with nearly all of the features of their flagship. That is unheard of! Also, this is a stacked sensor with a high readout speed and high write speed simultaneously to the memory card and to the EVF, powered by the EXPEED 7 processor. If the sensor size were increased, they would need a faster readout, a faster EVF, a faster monitor, and a faster card write speed to keep the same frame rate; otherwise, the speeds would need to be reduced. This is a system, and you can't change just one component without changing the others. It isn't as simple as swapping a 45 MP sensor for a 61 MP sensor, as some suggest.
Nothing wrong with the camera. But, I would of liked to see a stickier AF for fast moving small birds , & guessing the low light AF works as expected to keep up with the competition, (hope so). Other than that, considering the price point for a stacked sensor, it is a great deal if 8o - 85% of your photos are in focus.
I also think we could ask ourselves something else. Given that the Z8 does trump other cameras in its segment in a number of ways, it’s probably fair to say that it will attract people who’d otherwise go for a Z7 III instead. The only reason they’re not going for the Z7 III, is that that camera doesn’t exist yet, and the Z7 II’s AF system doesn’t have the best reputation. But, might this be an incentive for Nikon to actually hold off on releasing the Z7 III? Because presumably the profit margin on the Z8 is larger, and if you’re already invested in Nikon, you might be willing to pay extra for the Z8, because it could still be more economical than switching brands.
Regarding the EVF, I know that that was one of the things you'd hope they'd update. But in the DPR review, for example, they mention that the specs don't do it justice. And I've seen many people commenting that they would take brightness over resolution any day. Also, cameras like the A1 switch to a lower res mode when autofocusing. Which is actually said to be a jarring experience. But then Tony and Chelsea seem to favour higher-res EVFs. Meanwhile I'm still using a D750, so I really don't know what to make of it.
Regarding autofocus, also a point you raised, I think there might be more leeway in getting improvements through firmware updates.
The Z8 is the body I have been waiting for but my D850 sits in backup mode while my Z6 fills my commercial photographic needs. My keeper rate with AF has never been better(but I am not shooting fast sports in close) and in a 500 shot location shoot or in the studio I might get two missed focus. That is better than my employee gets which his R5 Canon, and before that he had a Sony that was not as good. There are a lot of beginners who seem to think the camera is supposed to make all the decisions. The handling and reliability matter to me so I do not buy Sony, and Canon, which I used to shoot in my film days, has cheapened the construction and ruggedness in the R series to lower to the Sony level, which never was built well or handled well.
Couldn’t agree more about AF. Learn to use it and any modern mirrorless can get the job done.
I think some minor new features have been rolled out directly to the Z9, which we can also find on the Z8 now. But yeah, that prevents the Z8 announcement to be exiting..
I am eagerly awaiting a Z6 III!!!
Do you think that will happen ?
What prevents them to replace the less performant expeed tandem processors with the newer one and limit some video capabilities ? If the less heat dissipating housing of the Z6ii and Z7ii is the limiting factor ?
The answer is easy. It's there anything comparable at this point?
The idea of a price competitive flagship is excellent is in my opinion but why did it take nearly 2 years to repackage an already developed prodeuct ? Also lots of frustrated customers who were expecting the release of a refreshed camera line up.
My guess, it took 18 months as they wanted to clear the Z9 backlog and sell as many as possible, before giving this option.
@Matt Granger yes the delay was obviously not caused by technical reasons. Matt, what's your educated guess about the next bodies that will be released? Here in Switzerland Nikon just started promotions, they dropped the prices on some Z6 ii kits up to USD 700.-. This, I think, is announcative of something to come.
No idea sorry. I try not to follow rumors and I dont see them releasing a second FX body soon after this.
@@mattgranger Ok, thank you Sir. That poses a dilemma for me and surely for thousands of Nikon enthusiasts around the world. Buy the Nikon /6ii now at a bargain price(USD 2235.- with that great 20-1200 F4.0 S lens), with its relatively underperforming autofocus, or wait for either a refreshed version of it or an all new body. I transited to mirrorless from years of using Nikon by purchasing a Nikon Z50, while acquiring FX lenses to prepare for the jump over to full frame. Unfortunately I have even experiencing several problems with the Z50 which I sent it for repair. It came back with the same ailments, really disappointing. So I now have to send it in again hoping that this time the Nikon repair service will check it more thoroughly based on my list of defects. Did you hear of users having reliability issues with their Z 50 bodies ? I never saw RUclipsrs who compiled and catalogued breakdowns and issues with various camera brands. I think that would be useful to many, don't you think ? Or is there such a repository I'm not aware of ?
@@mattgranger Do you mean to say there might be a new DX body coming ? The pro DX many have been speculating about ?
Nope, it's exactly what I wanted. Minus the missing card door lock (grr) 🙂
I think if the RED lawsuit hadn't happened the Z8 would have been released a lot earlier. Which explains why it isn't hugely different than the Z9. It's been on the Nikon shelf waiting.
Makes sense and could explain why there are so many units waiting on pallets.
Overheating for video is a step back. Of course overheating was going to be worse than the Z9. But I expect it to be significantly better than the Canon R5 and Sony A1. Otherwise, the Z8 looks like a very good camera.
Most users haven't even exhausted the features of the Z6ii and the z7ii. Why is there an expectation that camera makers should keep delivering new features almost on a weekly basis?
There isn’t
Will wait until they figure out the autofocusing issues..still happy with my Z7ii even though the autofocus is buggy..
I still can't comprehend why the auto focus is not at par with the competition. Obviously they know what they need to do to match it. Where is the hangup ? Patents ?
z9 is the main flagship. they only want the z8 for those who can't afford the z9. z8 is a nice hybrid between the z7 and z9. i hope the z8 price will come down more. lol :p
I think it's a perfectly logical step on Nikon's part. I might be prejudiced, having been a Nikon shooter for over 54 years. It doesn't make sense that you would release a body that technically usurps the capabilities of the Z9 for less $$. It seems targeted towards folks who don't need the high end pro-features such as the bigger battery and dual CFExpress card slots but want all the other features.
The mixed card slots, a step to madness.
The imperfections in focus, disappointing.
The price? I'd hoped for a good thousand $ less.
And overheating?That would infuriate me.
Gasoline and rent and car prices have gone up tenfold since the F2 debuted, but electronics of all sorts have improved ten fold at huge price drops.
Which leaves the Z8 as a what? Not all we'd hoped.
You hoped for a $3000 stacked full frame sensor camera with Z8 capability? 😂
And also… can a camera from Nikon be considered flagship if it is not designed with an integrated vertical grip? This would be breaking w tradition. I think you are right on when you say it’s a smaller camera with basically the same guts. Surely it would be called the z10 if it were the next flagship and not a number lower than the last flagship.
IMO, no - the Z8 is not a flagship, the Z9 with the integrated grip is. But - this is tricky, given how close their capabilities are.
I'm starting to feel like no matter what camera companies do - people will find something to complain about. Maybe that's just human nature. But man these newer bodies are magical, I can't ask for more.
@@csc-photo maybe I’m nuts but I wasn’t complaining with the d2xs. I don’t personally see the point of eye autofocus, just move the selector to where the eye is according to how you want to frame the image and then autofocus…. I would never EVER use 3d matrix or auto tracking while shooting a model. Unless I am at the ski slopes or the race track, I almost exclusively use single point autofocus and the multi selector button. I go through an entire modeling shoot and come away with 50-60 photos for an hour, probably 10 variations of 5-6 poses I am looking for and that’s it, I just don’t see this 20fps need and active 3d tracking on a person standing still. That has always been way more work than it is worth in the real world. Just my .02
@@csc-photo most of the people complaining haven’t touched a Z9/A1 etc. or have RUclips channels and need subject matter.
It’s not enough , but it’s expected , Nikon technological dependency on Sony and programming habilitéis limits (they can’t focus with a slow readout sensor) means than the D850 and the Z7 have better image quality ,no new resolution and no new viewfinder. They also removed the GOS. It’s sad but when the next generation of Canon and Sony cameras arrive I don’t know if Nikon will be able to do anything but stop prices.
Like clockwork. By the time Sony and Canon release their next top models the Z9 will be 3+ years old and people will be saying wait until the next generation of Nikon camera is released.
Sod the Z8, Nikon should have released a prosumer Z6iii with some of that tech. Most Z6/Z7 owners don’t realise how far behind those cameras are with tech including the m2 versions vs the competition. I jumped the Nikon ship (after 15 years) 18 months ago after giving up waiting. Tried the Sony system before settling with the Canon R5.
I do agree with you, as Sony A9 / 200-600 user looking around at other systems. But Nikon (for my needs) looks to have the best glass currently. I agree on the Z6III, and who is to say it won't come in Autumn this year? But they need to bring up tech like BEAF, to the equivalent Canon has done, and trickled down into their budget range..
Hope you’re enjoying the R5 👍🏼
I’m sure they’ll be a mk2 coming at some point
its kind a weird that today we focus on the inner tech compared to the days of film. How much is enough...no one knows
Sometimes NOT changing when something isn't broken IS progress.
Well… it’s literally NOT progress. But maybe it’s the smart move for you. 👍
You need to add the next 18 months until the next camera also.
It is definitely enough as a step up from my z6. It is already expensive enough. Don’t want to pay more for things that doesn’t matter much like 9MP viewfinder. Really. What else isn’t state of the art?
the rear lcd, the SD card - they are both years behind. The rest is all excellent - and 18-24 months behind the cutting edge tech of 2023.
The question is…. Have we reached the end of ingenuity and development regarding photography tech, OR is there simply no demand for more advanced technology from the photographic community?
I don't think this is as much about ingenuity as it is truly competing. As Nikon users, we're seeing Sony & Canon move ahead in the AF department & Nikon is playing catchup.
That's exactly what I thought, little new for the period.
Are cameras "maxing out " ??...that should be the question.....
Why?
Idk what you mean .. is it enough? Nikon gave a camera with no crippling for 4000usd. I expected it to be 36mpxl with maybe 6k recording.. but they gave z9 specs.. why do youtubers have to complain so much.. this camera is way better than r5 and a7r5.. and that’s all we need to know..
With Sd card and overheating limitations
Is it enough? I think yes, its not a D5-D6 scenario, its not an upgrade to the Z9 its a small profile Z9. Is the expectation we get more than a Z9 offers? Was the consumer expectation more, of course, have we waited to long for a smaller profile body? YES. This should have been out a longer time ago, for me the Z9 has no limits, the Z8 does, Z9 handles the heat, the same card slots, but thats the choice, shoot pictures, video, have a smaller foot print, happy consumers, pro’s will still go Z9 and Z8 2nd body for size reasons.What is clear from testing is the Z8 or not a small Z9, its the Z7III. The Z8 fits me, i shoot mainly images, i want a light body, i dont shoot video much at all and i dont want 61mpx sensor. Z8 Fits my ask along with a lot of people that are transitioning, have lots of Z6II batterys, D850 batterys, have lots of SDXC cards left over, so wont mind the grip either. I think you cant satisfy all the people all of the time, the Z9 is great, the Z8 is great, the Z6II and Z7II the D850 are also great. What matters is do you get the shots, do you get the video? Do you enjoy yourself? For me i do.
The only thing it doesn’t have that I could’ve used would be 30fps raw.
Yes, there should have been more technologocal progress...repackaging in a small packeage is not that huge of a leap.
They did not want to totally cannibalize the Z9 that fast. Nikon needs to get the dynamic range back up to where the D810 and D850 is.
If the Z8 is not enough for you then its not the camera. It's you.
Or you want to do long form video without overheating
Nikon is protecting its flagship that can only be the explanation here.
The Z8 will serve the Nikon stills diehards well enough, but otherwise fails to further the brand in the marketplace. By the time Canon, Sony, and Panasonic roll out their next generation offerings, Nikon will end up a distant fourth in full frame hybrids. I have a Z9 and it’s fine, but increasingly I feel as though the Z system has boxed me into a dead end, and though I love the ergonomics for stills, I’m starting to evaluate other brands for my future hybrid purchasing.
Kind of a weird video. So much innovation in this camera. It will last me for years.
I don't think it's a weird video at all. He's spot on
I was hardly interesseted in the z8 iam currently at d810 and d700 and this kamera impresses me not. So i have still to wait, till they fixed all the issues, or bring my desired camera.
😩😭😭
It's interesting to hear from Nikon DSLR users as they seem to be the ones holding on the longest
@@nyambe You cannot cut corners, you have to go the long way. Nikon step into the mirrorless game for to late. So the af performance is crap and still crap, even wird z 6ii or7 ii. Then nikon turns out you will with these cameras never reach the performance of z9 cause of the lack of processor performance. So this cameras will not fit my needs anyhow. Now Z8 AF crap especially the eye af is.....crap as fack. EVEN Canon has the better af. So i will stick to my cameras because they have still the best af i can relay on. And what we learned from this, it is like it is.
Definitely should have progressed. At least upgrade the terrible EVF.
Z8 might not track better than an R8，nough said.
Says who? I see a lot of commenters repeating this, seems like someone has asserted it.
@@mattgranger I am guessing Froknowsphoto aka Jared Polin.
You'd expect SOMETHING new and advanced after 1.5 years.
Of course. For 99 percent of those that buy it for photography.
Nikon is making grt hybrid bodies but nikon lacks hybrid lenses. A good ecosystem is needed for someone to really get into a brand its not the body always. DearNikon pls make high quality 1.4 S line primes with a optimum balance of quality, charecter, weight n price
affordability of set of highquality primes n ease of using them on field is imp for hybrid shooters especially event shooters .
Its nothing special its still big and heavy , its the same 2.5 years old tech of Z9, Its like they had this in their back pocket for years probably was made at the same time as Z9 but not released . They needed a more up to date Z6III and Z7III. Better screen EVF and auto focus as good as Sony
The only thing to do now is install AI…
The Z8 really isn't the flagship, and it really wouldn't make sense for them to make a $4000 camera that has major improvements over the $5500 camera. If so, there'd really be no reason to buy the real flagship anymore. They'll put major improvements into the next flagship, and then introduce the smaller less expensive version after that, just like they did with the Z9 and Z8.
How come u are losing so much weight? Are u taking my advice?
If it ain't broken don't fix it 😂😂😂
Isn't more like " all the development was done and the money spent, let's accelerate the ROI with a model that has a much bigger market share capturing potential " ?
Lets be serious you can achieve anything with a 2k or less camera by now.
Tech has come a long way. Everything that was possible in a flagship 10 years ago is now in a $2k camera. But new flagships can do more - and don things $2k cameras cannot.
@@mattgranger tell me one thing a 2k camera can’t do than a 5k camera. Focus is at this point where you just don’t fail anymore. Video is at 4/8k and more than enough for 90% of the people. Dynamic Range is a Monster in any modern camera. ISO is more like night vision nowadays. If you know what you’re doing it’s more than enough
8k video. 20-30fps with full metering and accurate focus. Internal raw recording of video. 120FPS jpeg or high res video. 2x digital crop in. ProRes Raw. Off the top of my head.
No one really needs a “flagship “ of any brand…… all marketing. Buy a Pentax K-70. You will be fine
No thanks
K70? You're wrong
It's only a camera
So wise 😂
It’s called marketing and many dummies will go out and buy the Z8 anyway. There’s a camera for everyone and any company that doesn’t know how to release new gear strategically will fail. It doesn’t have to make sense to the consumer as long as the company’s pockets are being lined with profit. Keep buying the latest and greatest while they get richer and richer🤣🤣 At some point you have to stop and say “This is all I need”.