As someone with a clinically diagnosed mental illness who had experienced auditory and visual hallucinations in my early twenties, these types of cases both interest me and concern me because they paint an incomplete or one-sided perspective. In my personal experiences, the things I saw and heard were, in many ways, very real and not discernable from any other living person who could be in the room speaking with me. I could see them and hear them like any other person I would spend time with. However, the beings that talked to me were floating heads, they had no bodies. Their voices were loud and angry, telling me horrible things about myself and other people, telling me to do horrible things to myself and other people. This was almost 20 years ago. Today, I am a mental health professional and I know a whole hell of a lot more about mental health conditions and substance use challenges than I did back then. But still, even at that young age, I knew the things I was seeing and hearing were not real, no matter how real they appeared or sounded, I knew that they couldn't possibly be real because they defied everything I knew to be possible. Floating disembodied heads that talk are not real, voices telling me to kill myself didn't make logical sense, no amount of reasoning could justify their existence or the truthfulness of what they were telling me. Perhaps if these things had happened to me when I was even younger, it's possible I could have believed they were real, but at the time I experienced them I had already determined that I didn't believe in ghosts, demons, spirits, or any of that supernatural stuff. The floating heads screaming at me may as well have been the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy. This of course was just my experience, not everyone has the same experience, and I do believe that some people are more impressionable or gullible than others. One of my friends has schizophrenia, and when we were younger and early in his diagnosis he didn't always take his medication routinely. One time when we were hanging out he forgot his meds and skipped a dose or two. That night he began seeing what he described as demons dancing around the room playing musical instruments, he said I was a demon too. He got up and went outside after feeling overwhelmed by everything he was seeing and hearing. He knew these things couldn't be real and yet they seemed to be really happening and he became afraid. In both of our experiences we were always in control of our actions, we could still think for ourselves. My thoughts are that this young woman did not have to take the actions she did, nothing was physically making her do those things, no matter how real she may have felt or convinced herself they were, she still had options and made choices. Violence in psychosis or schizophrenia is not a common thing, in fact most people who experience these mental health conditions are far more likely to be victims of others who take advantage of them in their vulnerable state than they are to be the perpetrators of violent crimes themselves. In cases where they do inflict violence it's almost always a process of escalation building up to that level. The things I described about my friend and I's experiences were happening to us without the necessity of any illicit substances, so I can't speak to that factor in this case and perhaps that is an important component. Substance use triggering mental illness and specifically psychosis or schizophrenia is not unheard of. Adverse experiences are a primary trigger for the onset of mental health conditions in children, teens, and young adults. Substances that alter brain chemistry are the usual culprits in circumstances where abuse is not the primary factor. We're talking LSD, psilocybin, MDMA, etc. I've never heard of it happening after taking 2 hits of cannabis, but that doesn't mean it hasn't, or that it isn't possible. This is indeed a difficult case, and I'm not sure what conclusion to draw.
Excellent comment. I've heard of anxiety attacks after a few hits of cannabis. For it to trigger violent psychosis there must have been very serious pre existing mental health issues imo.
Did you or your friend take a hit off a bong? My mom was schizophrenic. The voices told her kill herself. As she got older she worried about me & tried to kill me, too. I was in my 30’s & was able to get away. She only took prescription drugs & was an alcoholic. Those were hard times when people were shunned so alcohol numbed her.
I would say that mental health conditions are still shunned today, but they are far better understood than they were 50, 40, or even 30 years ago. Substance use or self-medicating as a coping mechanism is extremely common in those with a mental health condition. This behavior frequently leads to dependency or addiction and compounds the symptoms of the mental health condition, exacerbating it by creating a co-occurring condition. Creating a situation where the person is now facing both a mental health condition and a substance use challenge. Substance use has not been an ever-present or prolonged part of my journey with a mental health condition. I've never used any illicit substance, I never smoked so much as a cigarette. While I tended to avoid alcohol as I never enjoyed the taste, I did get blackout drunk at a wedding in my 20s after getting dumped by my date, just days before the wedding. After that experience, I swore I'd never get drunk again, and I haven't. I no longer drink alcohol at all. I was pre-disposed to developing a mental health condition due to genetics, but the onset did not occur until being triggered during adolescence, a time when adverse experiences were occurring one after another and being layered on top of each other. Childhood sexual abuse, physical abuse, and adolescent psychological abuse were the precursors to my foray into mental illness. My symptoms really became visible at age 14, expressed via depression and suicidal ideation that I wrote about in a private journal. I believe early medical/psychological intervention could have prevented the worst things that were yet to come had my parents been educated on what signs to look for and how to effectively react because the warning signs were brought to their attention when they found and read my journal. They asked me about the journal but didn’t take it seriously when I lied to their faces and said it was just creative writing. They knew that something was happening to me, they didn't understand it and chose not to take action, whether that was due to lack of knowledge, lack of will, or fear of knowing the truth and the false belief that shame or guilt would be brought on to them by embracing the truth. At age 16, I attempted suicide. Neither they nor anyone else found out about this event until years later. Where my parents failed, my high school english teacher succeeded. She intervened when I was 17, slowly and subtly building a rapport and trust relationship with me when she noticed the warning signs and the behavioral symptoms being expressed. She knew what to look for because she herself had and still has a mental health condition, something she disclosed to me during our conversations. I think in today's world, she would have been fired from her job. Had the school found out that she was spending time with me outside of school, even inviting me to her house, from their perspective it probably would have looked like she was grooming me, and it's likely people in town thought we were in some kind of sexual relationship because we would go out to eat and to the movies together. But that was not at all the nature of our time together. What was really happening was that she was giving me stability and a support system, a safe space to talk about what I was experiencing. I had nowhere to go, I had no one else I felt I could turn to. Through this trust relationship, she got me to open up about what I was experiencing and was able to connect me to a mental health counselor when I turned 18. I wish I could tie this into a cute little bow and give a perfect ending, but in reality a lot of wild shit happened over the next few years after that intervention, including different diagnoses, hallucinations, more suicidality, hospitalization, ruined relationships, a military discharge, other self-destructive behavior, years of medication and treatment, but her intervention nearly 20 years ago was truly the beginning of my recovery journey and she is one of the many reasons I am alive today. Throughout my time at high school, she kept me alive. She showed me that life with a mental health condition was possible, that I could keep going and grow successfully into adulthood, that what I was experiencing was not the end of my life but a mere detour, she gave me connection and perhaps more importantly hope. She saved my life, a fact I have shared with her on several occasions all these years later. Recovery is possible. It's not a static point in time, it's not marked by a single event or some kind of finish line. It's difficult and challenging, and there are barriers, obstacles, and setbacks. It's a state of being, an ongoing effort to remain in equilibrium. Living life in recovery is possible, and all the ups and downs are worth it. I could have died in 2002, but I didn't. I could have missed out on so much, but I haven't. Yeah sure, a lot of shitty stuff has happened too, both to me and in the world, but if I still spent my time dwelling on all of the negative shit I'd have never noticed or experienced the profound moments I've been able to live through.
I just heard about this case from a short clip on TT. I took one look at her and I GUARANTEE that she is closeted regarding her sexuality and he tried to do something intimate with her after smoking which they hadn't done before or EVER, and it TRIGGERED something violent in her. For a WOMAN to stab a MAN and overcome HIM, she had to have A LOT of RAGE inside her that was bottled up and she unleashed it on him.
John, I'm with you on this. I don't get why they are not charging 2nd degree or maybe at least both and let the jury decide? Send prayers to Chad's family.
I'm not sure but I have a guess: 2nd degree murder is a "specific intent" offence (compared to "general intent"). In such cases voluntary intoxication may be used as a defence in regard to the intent. It's not a complete defence, so it doesn't absolve you from all criminal liability, but it may remove the "specific intent" part.
Here's my big question: How much differently would the police and courts be treating this case if her defence was that she was very drunk at the time of the murder?
Trust me, I could say a lot about alcohol consumption, but I think this is the difference… They’re not saying being really high caused her to do this. They’re saying being really high caused her to be psychotic, & the psychosis caused her actions.
This is terrifying. Dr. Kris Mohandi is well-respected. I believe that this woman became psychotic. What I don’t understand is the change in the charges. This seems like so little time to be served if convicted. I just don’t know what to think.
@@sandyshirley5079 My point exactly. She stabbed him *108* times. Whether she was psychotic or not at the time of the crime, she chose to hit that bong, and should be held responsible for the result of her actions. If that means years of intensive treatment in a mental health facility, I'm fine with that too. But the proposed sentence seems like a slap on the wrist for a truly horrible murder, and an insult to the victim and his family. My cynical mind also wonders if this light sentence would even be considered if she had been a working class man with darker skin... The American justice system is so broken.
She chose to have alcohol and chose to have cannabis. She is responsible. I so feel for his family. She stabbed him an insane amount of times over a period of time. It is madness that she isn't already in prison or a mental health hospital!
ESPECIALLY as she broke off long enough for Chad to talk to his roommate and beg for help - then WENT BACK TO STABBING Chad as the roommate called an ambulance!!
What??! 10 to 16 months?? No, I'm sorry. Unacceptable for Chad, his family and myself included. What if this same exact thing happened to a member of your family? Wouldn't you want the killer, albeit young, impaired etc, to be in prison for at least a few years?? I can't accept 10 to 16 months. I'm in agreement with John.
Yes, I agree. It is not nearly long enough of a sentence. It is not only unacceptable for Chad, and his friends, and family, but it is unacceptable for society in general. No way is someone who is violent enough to stab someone over a 100 times, safe to be out walking around free in society. I don't care if they are claiming it was weed that caused psychosis. What will be the excuse if she does it again when she is released? That she decided to smoke it again, or decided to give edibles a try? Or maybe they'll try to blame it on a different drug ,situation, emotion, or person. They should keep her locked up for a normal length of time for that crime. I think life in prison would be acceptable. She took a life, and she is not safe to be free and out of prison now, and very possibly not ever.
I can’t help but think that this would be playing out much different if the roles were reversed and it was Chad that stabbed and sliced Brynn over a 100 times?!
Yeah, if it was the other way around every argument the guy had ever had would be waved around as examples of his "history of violence" and the murder case would have ended with a conviction within a year. She's getting off with less than a drunk driver would get for hitting and killing someone
No it's not the same at all. Girl smoked week and had a schizophrenic trip. Weed can have been likely laced as well, but we don't know. They proved in court she had a schizophrenic break, I get were you guys are coming from, but it's just not the fact of the case. It's very sad for both parties, she has to live with. As well as schizophrenia.
What a bizarre case. I really hope Chad’s family gets justice. This also reminds me of a video Georgia Marie did recently about whether intoxication is a valid defense in court.
Really interesting case. I don't how culpable she is if she'd never tried marijuana before & had no way of knowing that she would respond so strangely.
I was told if I was robbing a house, did hit/run, etc to ALWAYS have alcohol in me. Then no jail, just AAA. Of course, I didn’t do anything & I don’t drink. I’m 60 & have legal edibles. Covid took my ability to smoke. Take Care & don’t tell your kids these examples!! Bad parenting 😂
@@CrimeAndTides We don't even know that she responded to it strangely. Someone making a claim as part of their interrogation and defense, is not inherently factual. That is something that needs to be determined by a jury
@@Man_Emperor_of_Mankind Sure, she could be making it all up. But what if she isn't? That's what I'm interested in. I'm wondering how many people have done crazy shit on "reefer madness." What is the science? Is it possible? I'm genuinely curious.
One of my Ex gfs had an episode where she really believed that she had passed away for like 30 minutes after smoking for the first time. Craziest thing ive ever seen
It sounds like classic pot paranoia. I used to smoke a fair bit with my pals back in my younger days, and it happened to me once or twice, usually when I mixed my dope with alcohol. I've helped friends through it too. It's an awful experience, but the thing is that I've never once seen anyone get violent in that situation. Panicked, yes, sick, yes, but never once violent. The only violence I've ever witnessed associated with smoking pot was inflicted on pizza and nachos.
@@petahoee8281 Now that I've seen the whole video and it's been explicitly said that she'd had alcohol in her system this is making a lot more sense to me. I'm a mental health professional, and in my experience, alcohol just makes everything worse. No, pot isn't good for people with latent psychotic disorders, but when you combine it with alcohol all bets are off, especially with newer high THC strains of weed. That said, she smoked it voluntarily. I don't see that as being any different than getting drunk off your face and doing something violent that you would never do sober, then using alcohol as your excuse. It would never stand up in court, and I hope her sorry defence doesn't either. This was murder.
This also happened to the police officer who ate the pot brownies with his wife, and called 911, and told the 911 operator that they were dying, and then they were dead, and the 911 operator was laughing at them, telling them that they were just stoned. He was convinced that he wasn't breathing and his heart wasn't beating. This is something that may happen, but this girl took it to another level. If you aren't used to it, that's what could happen. Most people work through it. Don't forget, the man in Florida who ate the homeless man's face off, was also only on THC, everyone thought it was bath salts, but he was only on THC during that extreme psychological breakdown.
REALLY? Of course we all remember that bath salt story, interesting that it was weed! I remember the bath salt panic like 15 year’s ago, we were all afraid we would have our pot laced with it. Now I’m afraid to smoke pot by itself, as an adult I see it’s down side
The physical strength to actually stab someone over 100 times, wow!! Was there blood/alcohol level tests run? Society can not allow someone who has used this level of violence to potentially be free within months, without knowing what pushed her "over the edge". That's a disaster waiting to happen. If ever justice needs to prevail, it's this case. Sincere sympathy to Chad's family and friends. Rest in eternal peace Chad.
I just heard about this case from a short clip on TT. I took one look at her and I GUARANTEE that she is closeted regarding her sexuality and he tried to do something intimate with her after smoking which they hadn't done before or EVER, and it TRIGGERED something violent in her. For a WOMAN to stab a MAN and overcome HIM, she had to have A LOT of RAGE inside her that was bottled up and she unleashed it on him.
I'm 52, and have been around pot smokers consistently since I was 12. I get paranoid, scared, and stuck in my head when I consume any form of THC. Please believe, I've tried it in all its forms, as weed worshippers told me it was smoking it that was the problem. Turns out, I'm allergic. I'm also allergic to hops, which are in the same family. In recent years (20 or so) I've had several friends who've experienced their weed being laced, and having terrible reactions after smoking said weed. It's twice sent my best friend to the hosp. I know for a fact weed that's been laced with PCP, LSD, and meth. So, there are many factors to be considered here. What happened to that young man, his housemates, her, and their doggos is heartbreaking. I hope they figure this out, and that everyone involved can find some kind of peace, eventually.
I’ve tried every drug imaginable, always enjoyed myself. But always hated weed. Only did it a few times because of how awful I felt. Super paranoid. Just scary and extremely unpleasant. Seemed to take forever to wear off. I’m also allergic to certain beers. I’m severely allergic to Red stripe beer for example. Weird. Maybe you’re onto something
Criminal Defense attorney here, I seriously cannot wrap my head around the prosecution wanting a MMPI. I get that you don’t want any surprises at trial but if it comes back as she does have issues, it will bolster an involuntary manslaughter charge. If it doesn’t, then perhaps it shakes out a little bit better for the State, but then it will make the defense lean harder on the weed he “supplied” to her. Just such a risky proposition though, I cannot believe somebody other than the defense would order it. The prosecution effectively failed the family.
It’s very common for first time users, especially with how potent most marijuana can be nowadays to have mini panic attacks. I mean I remember watching a young guy smoke weed for the first time he kept saying “I don’t feel anything” of course he kept going and then minutes later he was telling us he needed to go to the hospital because he was going to have a heart attack…. 15 minutes later he was fine he didn’t try to kill us But this is a pretty common trend and why we need more literature around marijuana and how it works to educate people especially first time users.
There is a major difference between a panic attack and psychosis. Yes, lots of people with little to no tolerance can have panic attacks when trying to use high THC percentage concentrates. But that’s not psychosis.
This is very bizarre. I've never heard of anything like this before. I am an avid pot smoker and have never once had any crazy reactions to it other than some paranoia. I hope Chad's family gets justice!
But psychosis and its triggers are something different that we don’t understand in the general public. It’s bizarre, and the woman didn’t know it would happen if she drank and smoked weed. Sound like she’d never smoked before so she didn’t know it would do something weird to her. She had never had a psychotic episode episode either. But she brought on someone’s end! I don’t think there’s a point at which she just gets a slap on the wrist for that. It’s very confusing.
The cynic in me can’t help but wonder if this is how the prosecutors would handle a similar situation, if the victim were a politician, judge, cop or prosecutor. I strongly doubt it. My heart goes out to the O’Melia family. What an awful and painful way to find out how worthless “the system” actually is.
Regardless of her body's terrifying and strange reaction to ANY drug or who provided the drugs (alcohol and marijuana are both drugs), the bottom line is that she CHOSE to ingest the drugs, and so should be held accountable for her actions while on the drugs. I'm right there with you John. So terribly sorry for the Chad family. I agree with them. She did murder him, so she should stand trial for murder. That being said, I agree with others below, I observed one person who tried pot for the first time and went absolutely berserk, and if he hadn't been surrounded and protected by friends, would have definitely harmed himself or someone else.
I quit Smoking for about 10 years. Then i smoke some of the new medical Grade Weed with Friends. While i didnt Go psychotic, it was Not pleasurable. I was Heavily intoxicated, paranoid, and unable to move.😅 Weed is too strong now for non regular Users 😅
I have smoked pot a handful of times since I was 18, 27 years ago. I've hated it almost every time. The last time I used thc, my brother had mixed me a very small amount of oil, a 1:1 mix with CBD, which was the same mixture he used for the pot brownies he made for our dad who had recently been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer (this was in December 2018, he passed in March 2020). My father, who had never used ANY drug before, had a normal, calm reaction. He was basically just stoned. I hallucinated for 8 straight hours. I had to lie down and continuously open and close my eyes because when they were open, the ceiling was dropping on me, and when they were closed, the bed was swallowing me up. It was miserable! It started with feeling like I couldn't breathe. I hate thc, and I can't even use cbd of any kind. I think there needs to be a lot more research done. I don't see how people could think she was lying about her experience, since it doesn't make sense for her to just all of the sudden become a vicious murderer.
I should add that I completely understand and agree with your issue with the charges. A life was taken, and in a gruesome and painful manner. In addition, she did voluntarily used the intoxicating substance. Responsibility has never been excused in any other case when voluntary use of a substance results in death or assault. Both families are in my thoughts and prayers. There are 2 beautiful and intelligent young people whose lives are over, even if she gets to live a normal life, the life she had before is gone forever, and she'll never forget what she's done. Yes, she should be prosecuted and punished in some way. This is just an all-around sad case.
We once smoked regular pot with a girl who flipped out and thought she was going to die. She got us all in trouble with our parents. It was just schwag. I believe it can happen but not to this Extent
"Freaking out" in a temporary sense is rare but does happen, psychosis triggered by THC or where THC was a contributing factor is even rarer, and a THC psychosis which then leads to _violence_ is _extremely_ rare. But like any psychosis, it _can_ on rare occasions become violent.
In my experience weed made me very anxious, one time I was afraid my body was going to "forget to breathe" and I would die. I wasn't anxious about others hurting me. rather my own body failing me.
@@Olds_Gold I believe you, Opiates are a central nervous system depressant, You're C.N.S regulates breathing. I have taken Opiates in the past thankfully It didn't have a remarkable effect on my breathing. I can see why it could effect others in this manner. Glad you're still here to share your story ❤
Many years ago, a teenage student of mine suffered a total psychotic break. He ended up locked down in a psych ward, incapable of speaking English (he had been bilingual), suffering hallucinations, etc. We found that there was schizophrenia on his father's side, and a few days prior to the psychotic break, he had tried marijuana for the first time. I personally researched the subject and found that there is research indicating that if a person has the schizophrenia gene, smoking marijuana can trigger the disease. This whole case reminds me intensely of what happened to him. I think it's very possible that the marijuana induced a psychotic break.
Marijuana from dispensaries is crazy strong now. I have a really hard time finding flower that is under 20% THC. There’s no reason it needs to be that potent IMO. I have seen psychosis from marijuana happen IRL. It’s not the same weed from 30 years ago. People need to be educated more about the potency. That being said what she did was horrible, I hope she gets the help she needs but I also hope she is held accountable.
Bullshit...THC% is a sham...most recreational flower doesn't pass testing and when it does for potency it still doesn't mean its dank or quality smoke...I'd rather smoke that seedy commercial from back in the day that actually burned correctly instead of this chemically grown overly dry non cured weed being sold today...LEGALLY
I can't say that I understand exactly what happened here but I do know that just because you've consumed substances that doesn't excuse your actions while under the influence of said substances. A man lost his life here and there's no way that this woman shouldn't be punished for taking his life. I feel like even if she thought she was trying to protect herself from him or some unseen force that she was imagining, I don't see how going to such extremes would have been warranted. I also don't understand what the supposed argument they had could have been about. No matter which way you look at it being under the influence isn't a defense for murder. Another question I have is how did she have such easy access to a knife in a home where she didn't even live.
We love to anthropomorphize our dogs,; often giving them human characteristics because we love them so much and believe they love us in the same (very human) way. Unfortunately, this is not really the case. Our dogs do love us, but they are still dogs and can only love us in the ways appropriate to canine behavior. The courts should really seek out the advice of a dog behavioralist. When dogs become part of a chaotic situation such as a physical fight, they do not necessarily “side” with their “beloved” owner, even though our human nature wants to believe this. Often, due to fear and the increase in endorphins and other hormones, dogs will blindly lash out or even choose to assist a pack member that they perceive as being “bullied” (for lack of a better, less human term). It is very possible Brynn had to injure her own dog to get it off of her if, in the melee, the dog chose to attack her and not Chad. There is also the possibility that the dogs simply became confused and scared and turned on both humans. These beware very common under such chaotic circumstances. Furthermore, the humans may not be covered in bite marks if the dogs snapped at their close or simply could not get a well placed knife. It’s hard to believe nobody thought this through at the time, but it seems strange that the defense is implying Brynn stabbed her own dog simply because she was experiencing “psychosis”. Frankly, the idea that dogs become somewhat aggressive and turned off the humans out of instinct. Either way, my heart goes out to Chad’s family. I hope they receive the justice they deserve.
The very first time I (diagnosed with both a mood and anxiety disorder and ADHD) smoked the green leaf, I smoked a strong Dutch variety. I turned mellow. Every other time I've ingested any since then (two more times), I just fell asleep. To me, it was a supremely boring experience. I know many people who smoke it, and smoke regularly. NONE of them has ever experienced this before. It's honestly not entirely believable. Besides which, if someone decides to go drunk driving and then accidentally kills someone, what are they charged with?
First time I smoked I was calm but I had a friend in high school who would get hyper, paranoid, angry, aggressive. It’s so interesting how we all act differently. Maybe we just shouldn’t do drugs, life is weird enough as is lol
This is a very serious story done very well, so i shall pause now to chuckle & remember all the ridiculous "angel dust" stories (my HS friends won state in Drama for a morality play about PCP, we captured their 'crazy faces' in the newspaper, thank heavens) and reading books like Ask Alice, which had me convinced PCP was in *everything.* lol turns out, drug running WAS going on in our town, but it was meth & no one was handing it to notoriously goody two shoed high schoolers like us lol...
I can tell you this is 1000% feasible. I can tell u from experience. I was completely insane my first tiny toke. I literally was insane. Thank goodness I had pp around me that did the right thing. I could've easily ended up like her. I've heard from so many women that they've had similar experiences. I think it's a first try when you've had past un-dealt-with trauma.
"Spejcher's defense attorney asked Mena if it was possible that all of O'Melia's injuries, except the ones in places he could not reach, were inflicted by the victim." What in the actual f*ck? Her defense is seriously trying to imply that he stabbed himself like 97 times, and then Bryn responded to it like, "Hey, that looks fun. I think I'll poke him a couple times too?"
When my oldest son was in high school, he had bad reactions to THC the handful of times he tried it. He would also think he was going to die and would ask me to sit up with him all night. Even begged me to take him to the ER one of the times, not even caring if he got in legal trouble. I can't say for sure if her defense is legitimate or not, but my son felt like that from the first hit. Though he does have underlying mental health issues like you mentioned. And he was never violent, just scared and anxious.
this was in my town and its so sad... rest in peace chad.... theres a lot that i could say about law enforcement in this area.... look up the rebecca grossman trial
Such a sad and strange case. I just had two things. One, Washington U in St Louis is one of the best medical schools in the country. And, where did she get the knife, did she carry one?
She took half a hit of stale smoke and allegedly went into psychosis? Absurd. A panic attack is possible, not psychosis. And even the rare instances where it’s alleged chronic marijuana use triggered the onset of an episode of psychosis, it’s in an individual with a diagnosis of schizophrenic disorder. I lived with someone that regularly smoked who has schizophrenia, and it was not his smoking that would exacerbate or trigger psychotic symptoms. It was amphetamines. Never figured out exactly what he was using, but it would cause him to not sleep, and that’s what would start the ball rolling towards another psychosis episode. Even with alcohol use, I still don’t see that being the reason why the stabbing happened. That’s two depressants she’d be on. Just alcohol and a minute amount of THC that’s questionable if it would even effect her in such a small amount? Nah…It’s more likely there was a conversation about their relationship going on that triggered her violent reaction. A few weeks doesn’t necessarily mean there weren’t deep feelings involved already. Especially if they were already intimate. People can get very attached very quickly once they sleep together, particularly when it’s two people that are well educated, intelligent, reasonably good looking, etc. Perhaps he wanted to keep things casual but she did not, and was enraged by what she viewed as rejection of an accomplished woman. 108 stab wounds…she also stabbed her dog and herself? Sounds like she was thinking they’d go together, maybe?
Definitely sounds like something like schizophrenia which normally happens when a person is their 20s, but it can happen as young as early childhood (which might be a factor in the hallucinations when she was a kid). This case should have been handled more cut-and-dry than it is, between her admissions and the witness.
I’m bi polar and when the gummy’s came out in Minnesota I ate one. I did think I was dying, talking to gods. My heart was racing really fast. It lasted several hours and was apparently because I ate the whole gummy and I wasn’t supposed to. First and last time for me. However, I didn’t want to kill anyone. I did make my fiancé watch me because I truly believed I was dying. I think more studies need to be done on people with mental illnesses. We are just now getting some research because it’s becoming more legal. However, it’s sad that this story happened. Really no different than a drunk driver.
The conflicting information about the nature of the relationship sounds to me like it was a sexual relationship but not a romantic one - they weren't dating, but were sleeping together. If she wanted more or felt she had been misled, that adds a couple of possibilities - either rejection alone was the motive and she came up with the psychosis defense afterwards, or some combination of rejection, a personality disorder or past trauma that makes rejection even more triggering and intense than it is for most of us, paranoia from the mj, the alcohol in her system, and/or an underlying predisposition to psychosis created a perfect storm to bring on a break from reality.
Yeah, not one shred of evidence leads me to think she didn't know EXACTLY what she was doing 🤷🏽♀️ She wasn't an eye rolling, jibbering, drooling maniac. She didn't try to murder the roommate. She didn't run out on the street stabbing random strangers. She was coherent. She "remembers" wanting Chad to stay awake. She got the knife.... 🙄 She's probably like that Shabusiness idiot and just wanted to kill someone.... making her very, very dangerous
She wanted LESS. I just heard about this case from a short clip on TT. I took one look at her and I GUARANTEE that she is closeted regarding her sexuality and he tried to do something intimate with her after smoking which they hadn't done before or EVER, and it TRIGGERED something violent in her. For a WOMAN to stab a MAN and overcome HIM, she had to have A LOT of RAGE inside her that was bottled up and she unleashed it on him.
I’ve smoked off an on for years but switched strictly to a vape pen rather than flower. A previous partner of mine kept offering me bong hits unit one night I finally agreed. I have asthma and small lungs,. I knew better but I “cleared” the bong after his hit. I coughed so bad I thought I was dying, I threw up, and laying down the room was spinning so violently I wanted everything to stop. I could maybe see how if someone felt triggered or unsafe in a unfamiliar space they could react this way
It’s true John Lordan. Years ago studying at university I tried marijuana. First hand experience of psychosis from trying a ‘bucket bong’. Encouraged by others too. I thought my roomies were out to kill me. I thought they had hidden the house phone so I couldn’t call for help. It was actually just in the couch or something. I wanted to call emergency to say they were trying to kill me! Luckily I didn’t get the chance. I thought they had spiked the weed. All to get me. They tried to calm me down but I was too far gone. I didn’t kill anyone..but that experience was extremely scary. It’s a horrible feeling and this was from one hit. Unfortunate situation here but it wasn’t murder. Murder shows intent. She hardly knew Chad! She stabbed her own dog! It’s clear that she tried some weed..new relationship..hanging out. Then this psychosis took over. You can’t understand this but trust me…I can absolutely see this happening. This wasn’t murder John.
This may seem outlandish but when you think about the projects done by our scientists experimenting with the human brain, its not out of the realm of possibilities that some of these strange cases with the suspect saying those "voices in my head told me to do it" are exactly that.
I feel like she was really psychotic when it happened. She didn’t want to do this. Nothing in her history shows she’d ever do anything like this. I really feel for chads family though. I’m sure they really want justice but I just don’t know what that would be in this case. Really sad.
So, basically, SHE makes her own personal decision to "try hitting the bong," then SHE grabs two knives and stabs him over 100 times... and now HE is being blamed for being the one who "supplied the weed" while she skates off with a slap on the wrist? Yeah, this is one of the most despicable cases I've ever seen. Even if she ends up being found guilty of involuntary manslaughter, and even if the judge gave her the maximum available punishment, it still wouldn't be even remotely close to proper justice being served. RIP Chad. My sincere condolences to his family and loved ones. I can't even begin to imagine the anguish they're being forced to endure throughout this entire shitshow.
I know someone that cannot mix alcohol and weed. They become very mean and angry and the next day, they say they don't remember anything. This person was okay if they just drank (would still be mean and violent with the alcohol just not as bad)or if they just smoked but if they combine them it wasn't good. This person also could not combine beer and hard alcohol or wine or they would become mean and violent. Combining the liquors would have the same effect as combining weed and alcohol for this person.
I just commented a second ago that the worst reactions I've ever had to pot were when mixing it with alcohol! They can be a fun mix, but overdoing it, or doing it at all for some people is just a bad idea. I wonder if she'd also been drinking that night? I also had a friend (and university roommate!) who was the most mellow guy ever, including when he was stoned, but when he drank he'd pick fights with anyone. Luckily, he was a lanky little thing who we'd nicknamed Shaggy after the Scooby Doo character, so he was easy to get under control when he felt like fighting. Still, chemicals of any sort can make people act completely out of character, though on its own, pot still seems to be the safest I've encountered.
Reminder premeditated murder can happen in mear minutes, not saying it happen in this case. Ppl tend to think it takes days or weeks that's not always the case
Ever since certain states legalized pot I had my reservations about it. I personally can't tolerate it. I haven't had any for 60 years. Right, 60 years. I had used it probably 30 times and just hated the experience. Way back then I finally told my friends I didn't want any anymore. They promptly decided I worked for the police. I didn't. I'm not crazy. I've led a successful life and raised a spectacular daughter. I do not take drugs and I'm not an alcoholic. But I can tell you that not all brains are equipped to deal with cannabis. When I smoke it I can't understnd what people are saying. I can't speak. I don't know what time it is. I am not sure what I'm doing. I can't remember anything. I can't plan a simple task, like walking home or god forbid driving. Interestingly, Robin Williams claimed to have very similar experiences. I think we will be seeing lots of cases like this as time goes on.
It cracks me up how they can blame pot for stuff like this yes unless it was lasted with pcp but sounds to me she's just a loon and would have gone off eventually lock her up and leave her
Her legal responsibility for being in a psychotic state is what matters. She is causally responsible but not legally, as she, like most of us, had no idea that psychosis could result from smoking marijuana. Her ignorance was not culpable because it isn’t something that she should have known or taken to be likely. This is what the prosecution believes, at least
I have witnessed marijuana “psychosis” (I guess you could call it that anyways) and he was just panicking, scared that he was dying. Paying very close attention to his heart rate etc. Started talking about religion and things you would think of if death were imminent. It was strange but I wasn’t afraid of him in the moment, more so sympathetic.
I have various mental health issues, including PTSD. I had to stay away from weed as a teenager because it would just make me delusional. She stated she was annoyed that he was intoxicated and she wasn't feeling it. So she was pushing to have more without giving herself time to be sure that she was fully feeling the effects. I know more than one person who got annoyed that they weren't feeling anything, and rapidly took more, and when they did feel intoxicated it was too much and they had a bad experience. It's possible that she had an awful reaction. But we can't be sure that that's the case. Being intoxicated and losing control, losing your grip on reality... Even if a person was completely sober but they were not aware of what they were doing, that should require a long sentence if not in prison than a mental health facility. At the very least there is something wrong, and there's too many variables to work out when she's a danger to herself or others. I've been completely delusional twice. If I did something like this I would expect to be held accountable. Whether it was a sentence in prison, with the fact I wasn't of sound mind taken into account... I would expect years. Or an indefinite stay in a mental health facility. When I was delusional the stuff I believed was real was laughable. I'm able to see that with hindsight. But I didn't commit any crimes due to these beliefs. I want to feel sympathy given that I've been completely delusional before myself, but all I feel is questionable towards her version of events. It could be accurate, but it doesn't fully add up. She's not well, therefore she needs to be rehabilitated.
As a recovering weed addict, I can tell you that marijuana DOES affect your chemical balance. My father and step mother have been addicts for 30 plus years and until I became a mother, I did not realize how mentally ill we all were! we get, lethargic, anxious, paranoid, mean, lazy, angry and if I smoke certain strains I get hyper and violent. Marijuana is not “chill”, it is a psychoactive drug that messes with your perception of reality. It is in no way a defense to this murderer, she is a consenting adult who should be held accountable for her crime. But thought I would share my experience
Its a very bizarre story. I wouldn't take much stock on family members saying she was never a drug user, quiet and shy. Often parents and relatives are very much in the dark about the real lives of their children, grandchildren etc and what they get up to with their peers. Do we even believe this was the only time they ever used a bong together or the first time she'd ever smoked marijuana? The only way I could believe it is if she had other medication in her system or had an underlying neurological condition or psychopathy. I suppose they could try giving her the drugs again under controlled conditions? Yeah I know no one would ever agree with the ethics of that - let alone her defence team!
The Prosecutor is letting this family and Chad down. She made the choice to take a hit. For her to be out this whole time and living her life while Chad is dead is so wrong. She has taken no accountability. I think the Prosecutor is just trying to get a win and they feel this is the easiest way to get a win. But it isn't justice for Chad. They should be ashamed.
It can also depend on how its grown/manufactured, and it can be laced etc...twice only in my life ive mixed both mj and alcohol (in small amounts) and on those occasions ive hallucinated and flipped out. Very scary experiences. I can understand how some ppl can go crazy. Ive seen first hand how an older relative violently unleashed on me, after taking an incorrect dosage of his 'prescribed pharmaceutical medication'. Ive experienced the sucidal tendencies after taking a low dose valium and years before that a 3wk stint on antidepressants. Its ALL bad and should be avoided at all costs in my opinion. I think its beyond disgusting that 3wks after she murdered Chad, she was posting online her fun family vacation! She is accountable for murder. The lesson in all of this is to teach our youth and others to never ever touch these substances and avoid situations where we could be unwittingly drugged.
I watched some scenes from Reefer Madness a few years ago and, through the eyes of modern society, morality and knowledge it looked indeed like a ridiculous portrayal of marijuana use. I have smoked every day of my life for about 20/25 years and, despite suffering from cyclical depression, I've never experienced psychosis. That said, I have indeed heard of young people, usually with underlying issues, having severe episodes due to pot smoking. I believe it can happen, even if it never happened to me and I admit to normally having a dismissive attitude towards people believing one hit can make you mad, suicidal or homicidal (mostly because I believe giving credence to this school of thought will do more harm than good to the legalisation discussion, but this is a topic for another day...) One other factor to keep in mind is the type of marijuana: some types are much , much stronger than others. As I already said, I believe it's a very rare phenomenon, but this kind of thing can happen. Whether all this makes her less guilty in the eyes of the law or whether it's a feasible defensive line I'm really not sure.
It's true. It depends on who you are. THC especially the sativa variety amplifies things. That's why you get paranoid. Most people are a little paranoid in the back of their head and the trick is to relax, or get happy, or laugh, because what ever you are feeling deep inside, it brings it out and amplifies it sevenfold, and it's like a freight train, you just have to know how to steer it. But there's always that one person, the secret serial killer, who, when they smoke, something very bad comes out... but it is as rare as running into such a person.
Sativa definitely has a head high that can trigger anxiety attacks in people. Indica would be a better choice for people who that happens to imo. Also know your tolerance especially with edibles.
I haven't used pot in over 20+ years but had an edible chocolate about 5 years ago and was watching a RUclipsr and I was convinced they were talking to me and only me...not the 10k followers. I NEVER ate another one.
Dear John, I think that cases of psychosis after first ingesting marijuana may be much, much more common than the statistics show. They only include cases where the sufferer has sought medical help or where some criminal act has taken place. In a situation where psychosis manifests itself in a group of very young people and they are able to care for the sufferer themselves, the case may not be included in the statistics at all, as minors will not be eager for publicity. We had a similar case in our youth. We were not minors, but marijuana was (and is) illegal in our country. A friend very close in age to the victim in your case, who never drank or smoked, had a psychotic break after a single marijuana intake. Our friends were able to restrain her, but she lunged at anyone, screamed, had severe hallucinations, and squeezed my hand with such force that she tore through my skin with her fingernails to a great depth. The next day she remembered absolutely nothing.
If someone drives under the influence of pot, alcohol or other drugs and is involved in an accident, fatal or otherwise, their impairment will add to the severity of any criminal charges. They couldn't say as a defence "The drugs made me drive." So I don't see how it could be used to get you off a murder charge. In regards to the effects of weed use in general; I've used it both intermittently and regularly for periods on and off for 35 years. I've mixed with both regular and first time users. Not once have I witnessed anyone become violent because of it. However, the mind altering effects should not be underestimated and I think they might be by someone who has never taken it before and their only references to its effects are from pop culture. One also needs to consider that the THC content varies widely across the many different strains available. Short term paranoia can occur soon after consumption. It's fairly common. So much so that it is given the slang term 'the fear.' If someone experiences this they are usually talked out of it by other users within the group. Again, I've never seen it escalate into violence. In conclusion, I guess what I'm saying is that someone becoming violent after using weed is an exceptionally rare event. This is the first time I've ever heard of it. But add to that the fact she'd never tried it before and she'd also been drinking alcohol then it becomes slightly more likely. However it's still not a reason to avoid criminal charges.
They might be just trying to make sure they get *some sort* of conviction. They might be thinking that *some* accountability is better than none at all. At least she will have a record in case she has more episodes.😥😥
I smoke weed.. its legal in canada but if someone was killed if they smoke pot... they wasnt excused for it ... its like b0oze... its legal but.. if you killed someone under the influence of alcohol... you will be punished... so it should be the same if the person smoked some weed and she killed someone she should be punished. I think in Canada its not an excuse ... even if you are driving a vehicle under the influence of drugs... its a crime... it shouldn't be an excuse... BUT if she had a psychosis... its another thing... she must ne treated for it... but if she used this defense to not be prosecuted... sorry she has to be punished..
It's the same debate with the opiates, if you sell someone opiates and they OD, it's going to be your ass sitting in prison. I don't really agree with that, regardless of the drug involved.
It's meant to be a deterrent to dealers, but these laws are written by people who refuse to learn about addiction. Deterrents do not work with addicted people & the ratio of doing the thing to getting caught in this area is so low, most dealers find the economic risk acceptable, usually a decision made by someone whose ass is not in danger....
@@standdownrobots_ihaveoldglory I agree. If those deterrents worked, there wouldn't be addicts. I know from personal experience that only treatment and lifestyle changes can pull you out of the depths of that hell.
First time i smoked i got sick and threw up. After that you pretty much just feel like laughing, hungry, mellow, tired... I just don't believe it was the weed. At all.
While "reefer madness" sounds unbelievable, you really never know. Myself and my grandfather both have bad reactions to Nyquil that produces hallucinations and night terrors. So, while it's very unlikely, I wouldn't totally rule it out.
Nobody is a professional at smoking Marijuana their first time😂 I will say the Marijuana now a days definitely isn't what we had in the 90s. Either way, I couldn't imagine this happening the first time. A friend's son has developed early psychosis and we concluded that it came on probably from weed as well as genetics. However, he has NEVER even thought of hurting anyone, or should I say showed signs that he would act out or go "nuts". This is weird. How about the blood work?
There's a wild PCP story from 2014 involving Christ Bearer - a Wu-Tang Clan affiliated rapper. I'll spare the details here but one can Google it if interested.
This is awful, but welcome to California. The State where nothing is your fault and the bigger the crime the more compassion is key. Cause and effect doesn't exist here, and if it does, the cause is always someone else. This is becoming more prominent in my State and its so sad to see😢 The enabling here is leading to disabling people.
As a reefer user, I understand it can effect everyone different but every time this is used as a self-defense it really pisses me off. IF and a big if marijuana was the issue I refuse to believe it wasn't laced with something. edit: commented before it was acknowledged, I hope they tested that bong.
I kinda feel like there could very well be more to the story. Have a hard time believing she could stab him 108 times and him not be able to subdue her during that time, knock her out , hit over the head something? Do something to get her to stop. I guess if the first stab wounds was fatal or rendering him unable to defend himself maybe but apparently long after it had started he was still able to tell a friend she has stabbed me. I don’t know but seems like it’s possible she could have had help idk
If he did that to her, he'd be locked up in prison already. She's a woman and women could never intentionally harm a man not even stabbing a man 108 times could be this Poor Little Girl's Fault!
35:30 me it happens to me , ive tried it 3x in my life and all its sooo scary! I have schizo Episode. I feel so heard rn becos i say this all the time and people literally get mad or laugh and dont believe me !!! I always say im allergic to it
Although not to the same degree, weed doesn't agree with me either and it's so frustrating when people act like it's a perfect drug for everyone. So weed can have mental effects like sleepiness, feelings of calm, pain reduction, euphoria, heightened libido etc, but somehow people won't believe there could possibly be any negative mental/emotional effects for anyone ever?? I knew someone who would have delusions when drinking, and they weren't mixing it with any other drug - prescription or otherwise. Rare reactions occur with any drug.
Outside of US so throwing questions out there...if weed is legal in a lot of states, were there peer reviewed clinical studies proving that weed is essentially safe which were used to base legalisation on? Are there any reports from medical establishments which would support the mental break scenario? Ie 1500 similar reports of psychosis nationally allowing a propensity for this to occur? What were the results of her assessment..detailed i mean In my opinion she wasnt forced to drink or smoke..that was her choice made willingly. I think 2nd degree murder is more than an acceptable charge to levy. My thoughts go out to Chad's friends and family. I hope they receive justice. Best regards from the UK
I'm a mental health professional who smoked quite a lot of weed with my rocker roomies back when I was in undergrad, and also lives in Canada, where pot has been legal since 2018. In some people, overuse of cannabis can cause paranoia. It's not actually a terribly rare reaction; I've experienced it myself, usually when mixing pot with alcohol. It's not fun, but though I've seen people panic from what's known as pot paranoia, I've never once seen anyone become violent from it. One thing that research has revealed is that, in young people particularly, cannabis use *can* trigger latent psychotic disorders, just like other psychoactive drugs can. If someone has an unknown genetic tendency toward schizophrenia, for example, smoking pot, especially heavily, can activate that disorder. I don't personally know of any cases where a single use has caused psychosis, but I suppose it could be theoretically possible. I don't think it's highly likely without other substances being involved though.
@thing_under_the_stairs thanks for the reply. Would that suggest that her assessment showed underlying triggers do you think? Pot is decriminalised here but still classed as a class c drug and is still illegal. If it is a small amount police won't do anything. Obviously if it is a kilo of weed, that is a different story. I haven't heard of any attacks in the UK where weed has caused a psychotic break and turned violent. If this did happen in the UK the charge would be manslaughter because we only have murder then manslaughter. It is an interesting case though
Something is definitely really wrong here, but I think probably most people who aren't licensed medical doctors would find it very difficult to convince all these medical professionals by giving all the correct symptoms for psychosis, and I mean all of those symptoms, a lot of them, continuously. Maybe we're missing some of the information in this case, at this point? Are we? Is it supposedly all laid bare at this point, all details out to the public?
What a sad situation for the dog and victim. I think it was more likely the alcohol for sure that triggered her violent rage. I wonder if she was on some medication as well, and mixing the two, I don't know what that would be like, but I highly doubt most of us drunk and on weed would never ever hurt our own dog let alone stab someone over 100 times death. He must have broke up with her or saw some sign that she was not all there and wanted her out of the house thus the argument, it's pretty clear to me something said triggered her. Maybe she was a stalker type and wouldn't go away and him being a nice guy couldn't get away. Just my thoughts, nothing more and no harm meant.
This happened in California. I'm sorry, but what did you expect from the prosecutors? They let killers and thieves out every day. No way I'd ever step foot in that state. Prayers for Chad and his family.
This is injustice. Total injustice. She’s free for years while the family suffers. Ridiculous. I’ve never, ever seen anyone go nuts on weed. They laugh, they sit around being weird & they sleep. Involuntary my behind.
The Marijuana of today is nothing like it was in all of our history. It’s super potent in some cases, and people that have never used before should start with tiny puffs off bowls, not drags from a bong. Any drug user should know that know a days. It’s the biggest problem with legalization. The constant need to make things more and more potent with no real regulation. It’s as dumb as starting with 30 percent moonshine when you have never drank. I imagine that girl felt all the things she said and had a panic attack, she was probably super pissed at him for getting in the shape she was. I’m not defending her actions, she should be in jail or in a mental hospital for a long long time. But only an immature asshole would let some newly, never before smoked person take a drag off a bong to start out. No other drugs are needed with todays weed. It’s more than potent enough to bring on horrible shit like Drug induced psychosis. Don’t believe me, look at the rate of ER admittance from THC consumption in the last 5 years and compare it to the late 80s early 90s and 00s. I’m all for decriminalization and legalization, but like everything the U.S. does , they do it ass backwards. There need to be limits on shit. There is no harm placing potency limits on what can be sold. It’s the responsible thing to do.
As an advocate for pain medicine for those in chronic pain I had to learn a lot about drugs. There is later onset schizophrenia. It usually hits at a younger age but can come on as late as 40s. They need to check if mental illness is in the family. That makes it more likely she has issues that may just haven’t shown yet. If they are having her go to therapy they will encourage things like doing blogs or hobbies whatever she’s doing to keep her level if she really does have a mental issue. I also wonder if she has been put on psychiatric meds. And was she on meds before this happened? Did they say she was or was it just beer? This case reminds me of the boy who attacked & killed the couple in the garage. She was new to THC was she new to alcohol? Perhaps should this not have happened she would be a late onset schizophrenic. I foresee a future where her mental health will deteriorate but the question is is it because she was born with a mental illness that hadn’t shown yet or would it be because of what she did. It’s things like this that makes drugs that could help people get a bad label. There’s no clear cut solution.
108 stab wounds and they don't feel like they can beat involuntary manslaughter???? First, she chose to take the drugs and stabs him not once, not twice but 108 times, using 2 different knives, and the intent is not to kill???? That is crazy and it's even more crazy it is the prosecutor that is giving in. Take it to trial and let a jury decide between manslaughter and 2nd degree.
There was another Washington University School of Medicine St Louis MO student in 2017 who murdered a prominent lawyer in the EDWARDSVILLE il area Gore attorney named Gore
She got no jail time. 2 years of probation and 100 hours of community service. Absolutely appalling
As someone with a clinically diagnosed mental illness who had experienced auditory and visual hallucinations in my early twenties, these types of cases both interest me and concern me because they paint an incomplete or one-sided perspective.
In my personal experiences, the things I saw and heard were, in many ways, very real and not discernable from any other living person who could be in the room speaking with me. I could see them and hear them like any other person I would spend time with.
However, the beings that talked to me were floating heads, they had no bodies. Their voices were loud and angry, telling me horrible things about myself and other people, telling me to do horrible things to myself and other people.
This was almost 20 years ago. Today, I am a mental health professional and I know a whole hell of a lot more about mental health conditions and substance use challenges than I did back then. But still, even at that young age, I knew the things I was seeing and hearing were not real, no matter how real they appeared or sounded, I knew that they couldn't possibly be real because they defied everything I knew to be possible. Floating disembodied heads that talk are not real, voices telling me to kill myself didn't make logical sense, no amount of reasoning could justify their existence or the truthfulness of what they were telling me.
Perhaps if these things had happened to me when I was even younger, it's possible I could have believed they were real, but at the time I experienced them I had already determined that I didn't believe in ghosts, demons, spirits, or any of that supernatural stuff. The floating heads screaming at me may as well have been the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy.
This of course was just my experience, not everyone has the same experience, and I do believe that some people are more impressionable or gullible than others.
One of my friends has schizophrenia, and when we were younger and early in his diagnosis he didn't always take his medication routinely. One time when we were hanging out he forgot his meds and skipped a dose or two. That night he began seeing what he described as demons dancing around the room playing musical instruments, he said I was a demon too. He got up and went outside after feeling overwhelmed by everything he was seeing and hearing. He knew these things couldn't be real and yet they seemed to be really happening and he became afraid.
In both of our experiences we were always in control of our actions, we could still think for ourselves.
My thoughts are that this young woman did not have to take the actions she did, nothing was physically making her do those things, no matter how real she may have felt or convinced herself they were, she still had options and made choices.
Violence in psychosis or schizophrenia is not a common thing, in fact most people who experience these mental health conditions are far more likely to be victims of others who take advantage of them in their vulnerable state than they are to be the perpetrators of violent crimes themselves. In cases where they do inflict violence it's almost always a process of escalation building up to that level.
The things I described about my friend and I's experiences were happening to us without the necessity of any illicit substances, so I can't speak to that factor in this case and perhaps that is an important component.
Substance use triggering mental illness and specifically psychosis or schizophrenia is not unheard of. Adverse experiences are a primary trigger for the onset of mental health conditions in children, teens, and young adults. Substances that alter brain chemistry are the usual culprits in circumstances where abuse is not the primary factor. We're talking LSD, psilocybin, MDMA, etc.
I've never heard of it happening after taking 2 hits of cannabis, but that doesn't mean it hasn't, or that it isn't possible.
This is indeed a difficult case, and I'm not sure what conclusion to draw.
Excellent comment. I've heard of anxiety attacks after a few hits of cannabis. For it to trigger violent psychosis there must have been very serious pre existing mental health issues imo.
Did you or your friend take a hit off a bong? My mom was schizophrenic. The voices told her kill herself. As she got older she worried about me & tried to kill me, too. I was in my 30’s & was able to get away. She only took prescription drugs & was an alcoholic. Those were hard times when people were shunned so alcohol numbed her.
I would say that mental health conditions are still shunned today, but they are far better understood than they were 50, 40, or even 30 years ago.
Substance use or self-medicating as a coping mechanism is extremely common in those with a mental health condition. This behavior frequently leads to dependency or addiction and compounds the symptoms of the mental health condition, exacerbating it by creating a co-occurring condition. Creating a situation where the person is now facing both a mental health condition and a substance use challenge.
Substance use has not been an ever-present or prolonged part of my journey with a mental health condition. I've never used any illicit substance, I never smoked so much as a cigarette. While I tended to avoid alcohol as I never enjoyed the taste, I did get blackout drunk at a wedding in my 20s after getting dumped by my date, just days before the wedding. After that experience, I swore I'd never get drunk again, and I haven't. I no longer drink alcohol at all.
I was pre-disposed to developing a mental health condition due to genetics, but the onset did not occur until being triggered during adolescence, a time when adverse experiences were occurring one after another and being layered on top of each other. Childhood sexual abuse, physical abuse, and adolescent psychological abuse were the precursors to my foray into mental illness.
My symptoms really became visible at age 14, expressed via depression and suicidal ideation that I wrote about in a private journal.
I believe early medical/psychological intervention could have prevented the worst things that were yet to come had my parents been educated on what signs to look for and how to effectively react because the warning signs were brought to their attention when they found and read my journal. They asked me about the journal but didn’t take it seriously when I lied to their faces and said it was just creative writing. They knew that something was happening to me, they didn't understand it and chose not to take action, whether that was due to lack of knowledge, lack of will, or fear of knowing the truth and the false belief that shame or guilt would be brought on to them by embracing the truth.
At age 16, I attempted suicide. Neither they nor anyone else found out about this event until years later.
Where my parents failed, my high school english teacher succeeded. She intervened when I was 17, slowly and subtly building a rapport and trust relationship with me when she noticed the warning signs and the behavioral symptoms being expressed. She knew what to look for because she herself had and still has a mental health condition, something she disclosed to me during our conversations.
I think in today's world, she would have been fired from her job. Had the school found out that she was spending time with me outside of school, even inviting me to her house, from their perspective it probably would have looked like she was grooming me, and it's likely people in town thought we were in some kind of sexual relationship because we would go out to eat and to the movies together. But that was not at all the nature of our time together.
What was really happening was that she was giving me stability and a support system, a safe space to talk about what I was experiencing. I had nowhere to go, I had no one else I felt I could turn to. Through this trust relationship, she got me to open up about what I was experiencing and was able to connect me to a mental health counselor when I turned 18.
I wish I could tie this into a cute little bow and give a perfect ending, but in reality a lot of wild shit happened over the next few years after that intervention, including different diagnoses, hallucinations, more suicidality, hospitalization, ruined relationships, a military discharge, other self-destructive behavior, years of medication and treatment, but her intervention nearly 20 years ago was truly the beginning of my recovery journey and she is one of the many reasons I am alive today.
Throughout my time at high school, she kept me alive. She showed me that life with a mental health condition was possible, that I could keep going and grow successfully into adulthood, that what I was experiencing was not the end of my life but a mere detour, she gave me connection and perhaps more importantly hope. She saved my life, a fact I have shared with her on several occasions all these years later.
Recovery is possible. It's not a static point in time, it's not marked by a single event or some kind of finish line. It's difficult and challenging, and there are barriers, obstacles, and setbacks. It's a state of being, an ongoing effort to remain in equilibrium. Living life in recovery is possible, and all the ups and downs are worth it.
I could have died in 2002, but I didn't. I could have missed out on so much, but I haven't. Yeah sure, a lot of shitty stuff has happened too, both to me and in the world, but if I still spent my time dwelling on all of the negative shit I'd have never noticed or experienced the profound moments I've been able to live through.
I just heard about this case from a short clip on TT. I took one look at her and I GUARANTEE that she is closeted regarding her sexuality and he tried to do something intimate with her after smoking which they hadn't done before or EVER, and it TRIGGERED something violent in her. For a WOMAN to stab a MAN and overcome HIM, she had to have A LOT of RAGE inside her that was bottled up and she unleashed it on him.
John, I'm with you on this. I don't get why they are not charging 2nd degree or maybe at least both and let the jury decide? Send prayers to Chad's family.
I'm not sure but I have a guess: 2nd degree murder is a "specific intent" offence (compared to "general intent"). In such cases voluntary intoxication may be used as a defence in regard to the intent. It's not a complete defence, so it doesn't absolve you from all criminal liability, but it may remove the "specific intent" part.
Here's my big question: How much differently would the police and courts be treating this case if her defence was that she was very drunk at the time of the murder?
Trust me, I could say a lot about alcohol consumption, but I think this is the difference…
They’re not saying being really high caused her to do this. They’re saying being really high caused her to be psychotic, & the psychosis caused her actions.
This is terrifying. Dr. Kris Mohandi is well-respected. I believe that this woman became psychotic. What I don’t understand is the change in the charges. This seems like so little time to be served if convicted. I just don’t know what to think.
@@sandyshirley5079 My point exactly. She stabbed him *108* times. Whether she was psychotic or not at the time of the crime, she chose to hit that bong, and should be held responsible for the result of her actions. If that means years of intensive treatment in a mental health facility, I'm fine with that too. But the proposed sentence seems like a slap on the wrist for a truly horrible murder, and an insult to the victim and his family. My cynical mind also wonders if this light sentence would even be considered if she had been a working class man with darker skin... The American justice system is so broken.
Blaming the victim by saying he had been the one providing the drug is in the poorest taste possible!!! Very jarring!
She chose to have alcohol and chose to have cannabis. She is responsible. I so feel for his family. She stabbed him an insane amount of times over a period of time. It is madness that she isn't already in prison or a mental health hospital!
ESPECIALLY as she broke off long enough for Chad to talk to his roommate and beg for help - then WENT BACK TO STABBING Chad as the roommate called an ambulance!!
Truth...gotta love the justice system.
Mental health hospital for sure. Schizophrenic.
What??! 10 to 16 months?? No, I'm sorry. Unacceptable for Chad, his family and myself included. What if this same exact thing happened to a member of your family? Wouldn't you want the killer, albeit young, impaired etc, to be in prison for at least a few years?? I can't accept 10 to 16 months. I'm in agreement with John.
Ohh what that's ridiculous. And I believe the defendant! But it doesn't matter! You killed someone!
“Young” 27 years old. Grown ass adult.
Yes, I agree. It is not nearly long enough of a sentence. It is not only unacceptable for Chad, and his friends, and family, but it is unacceptable for society in general. No way is someone who is violent enough to stab someone over a 100 times, safe to be out walking around free in society. I don't care if they are claiming it was weed that caused psychosis. What will be the excuse if she does it again when she is released? That she decided to smoke it again, or decided to give edibles a try? Or maybe they'll try to blame it on a different drug ,situation, emotion, or person. They should keep her locked up for a normal length of time for that crime. I think life in prison would be acceptable. She took a life, and she is not safe to be free and out of prison now, and very possibly not ever.
I can’t help but think that this would be playing out much different if the roles were reversed and it was Chad that stabbed and sliced Brynn over a 100 times?!
Yep. Hate to be that guy but during the video, I couldn’t help but think “Oh a young woman gets off easy. What a shocker.”
Yeah, if it was the other way around every argument the guy had ever had would be waved around as examples of his "history of violence" and the murder case would have ended with a conviction within a year.
She's getting off with less than a drunk driver would get for hitting and killing someone
Could have predicted it. It’s insane.
Agreed
No it's not the same at all. Girl smoked week and had a schizophrenic trip. Weed can have been likely laced as well, but we don't know. They proved in court she had a schizophrenic break, I get were you guys are coming from, but it's just not the fact of the case. It's very sad for both parties, she has to live with. As well as schizophrenia.
What a bizarre case. I really hope Chad’s family gets justice. This also reminds me of a video Georgia Marie did recently about whether intoxication is a valid defense in court.
How creates
Really interesting case. I don't how culpable she is if she'd never tried marijuana before & had no way of knowing that she would respond so strangely.
I was told if I was robbing a house, did hit/run, etc to ALWAYS have alcohol in me. Then no jail, just AAA. Of course, I didn’t do anything & I don’t drink. I’m 60 & have legal edibles. Covid took my ability to smoke. Take Care & don’t tell your kids these examples!! Bad parenting 😂
@@CrimeAndTides We don't even know that she responded to it strangely. Someone making a claim as part of their interrogation and defense, is not inherently factual. That is something that needs to be determined by a jury
@@Man_Emperor_of_Mankind Sure, she could be making it all up. But what if she isn't? That's what I'm interested in. I'm wondering how many people have done crazy shit on "reefer madness." What is the science? Is it possible? I'm genuinely curious.
One of my Ex gfs had an episode where she really believed that she had passed away for like 30 minutes after smoking for the first time. Craziest thing ive ever seen
It sounds like classic pot paranoia. I used to smoke a fair bit with my pals back in my younger days, and it happened to me once or twice, usually when I mixed my dope with alcohol. I've helped friends through it too. It's an awful experience, but the thing is that I've never once seen anyone get violent in that situation. Panicked, yes, sick, yes, but never once violent. The only violence I've ever witnessed associated with smoking pot was inflicted on pizza and nachos.
@@thing_under_the_stairs I agree
@@petahoee8281 Now that I've seen the whole video and it's been explicitly said that she'd had alcohol in her system this is making a lot more sense to me. I'm a mental health professional, and in my experience, alcohol just makes everything worse. No, pot isn't good for people with latent psychotic disorders, but when you combine it with alcohol all bets are off, especially with newer high THC strains of weed. That said, she smoked it voluntarily. I don't see that as being any different than getting drunk off your face and doing something violent that you would never do sober, then using alcohol as your excuse. It would never stand up in court, and I hope her sorry defence doesn't either. This was murder.
Truth.
THC % does not make weed more potent...I'll take dank lows over dry top shelf anyday...people are dumb
This also happened to the police officer who ate the pot brownies with his wife, and called 911, and told the 911 operator that they were dying, and then they were dead, and the 911 operator was laughing at them, telling them that they were just stoned. He was convinced that he wasn't breathing and his heart wasn't beating. This is something that may happen, but this girl took it to another level. If you aren't used to it, that's what could happen. Most people work through it. Don't forget, the man in Florida who ate the homeless man's face off, was also only on THC, everyone thought it was bath salts, but he was only on THC during that extreme psychological breakdown.
I'd forgotten about that but the first time I heard it I laughed so hard I had to listen to it again to catch what I missed the first time. 😅
REALLY? Of course we all remember that bath salt story, interesting that it was weed! I remember the bath salt panic like 15 year’s ago, we were all afraid we would have our pot laced with it. Now I’m afraid to smoke pot by itself, as an adult I see it’s down side
I remember that. That cop and his wife were having anxiety attacks imo.
The physical strength to actually stab someone over 100 times, wow!! Was there blood/alcohol level tests run? Society can not allow someone who has used this level of violence to potentially be free within months, without knowing what pushed her "over the edge". That's a disaster waiting to happen. If ever justice needs to prevail, it's this case. Sincere sympathy to Chad's family and friends. Rest in eternal peace Chad.
They did toxicology tests. Both had 4% THC
Which is very low. And the small amount of pot found in the home was the same.
I just heard about this case from a short clip on TT. I took one look at her and I GUARANTEE that she is closeted regarding her sexuality and he tried to do something intimate with her after smoking which they hadn't done before or EVER, and it TRIGGERED something violent in her. For a WOMAN to stab a MAN and overcome HIM, she had to have A LOT of RAGE inside her that was bottled up and she unleashed it on him.
108 stab wounds? That's rage. Either there's something we don't know, or she's a psychopath
I'm 52, and have been around pot smokers consistently since I was 12. I get paranoid, scared, and stuck in my head when I consume any form of THC. Please believe, I've tried it in all its forms, as weed worshippers told me it was smoking it that was the problem. Turns out, I'm allergic. I'm also allergic to hops, which are in the same family. In recent years (20 or so) I've had several friends who've experienced their weed being laced, and having terrible reactions after smoking said weed. It's twice sent my best friend to the hosp. I know for a fact weed that's been laced with PCP, LSD, and meth. So, there are many factors to be considered here. What happened to that young man, his housemates, her, and their doggos is heartbreaking. I hope they figure this out, and that everyone involved can find some kind of peace, eventually.
Toxicologists found only marijuana
I’ve tried every drug imaginable, always enjoyed myself. But always hated weed. Only did it a few times because of how awful I felt. Super paranoid. Just scary and extremely unpleasant. Seemed to take forever to wear off. I’m also allergic to certain beers. I’m severely allergic to Red stripe beer for example. Weird. Maybe you’re onto something
Your entire premise is negated by the fact that LSD cannot be smoked...nice try though😂
Criminal Defense attorney here, I seriously cannot wrap my head around the prosecution wanting a MMPI. I get that you don’t want any surprises at trial but if it comes back as she does have issues, it will bolster an involuntary manslaughter charge. If it doesn’t, then perhaps it shakes out a little bit better for the State, but then it will make the defense lean harder on the weed he “supplied” to her. Just such a risky proposition though, I cannot believe somebody other than the defense would order it. The prosecution effectively failed the family.
5 years and not a clue of what to do. Unbelievable
It’s very common for first time users, especially with how potent most marijuana can be nowadays to have mini panic attacks. I mean I remember watching a young guy smoke weed for the first time he kept saying “I don’t feel anything” of course he kept going and then minutes later he was telling us he needed to go to the hospital because he was going to have a heart attack…. 15 minutes later he was fine he didn’t try to kill us But this is a pretty common trend and why we need more literature around marijuana and how it works to educate people especially first time users.
There is a major difference between a panic attack and psychosis. Yes, lots of people with little to no tolerance can have panic attacks when trying to use high THC percentage concentrates. But that’s not psychosis.
This is very bizarre. I've never heard of anything like this before. I am an avid pot smoker and have never once had any crazy reactions to it other than some paranoia. I hope Chad's family gets justice!
But psychosis and its triggers are something different that we don’t understand in the general public. It’s bizarre, and the woman didn’t know it would happen if she drank and smoked weed. Sound like she’d never smoked before so she didn’t know it would do something weird to her. She had never had a psychotic episode episode either. But she brought on someone’s end! I don’t think there’s a point at which she just gets a slap on the wrist for that. It’s very confusing.
The cynic in me can’t help but wonder if this is how the prosecutors would handle a similar situation, if the victim were a politician, judge, cop or prosecutor. I strongly doubt it. My heart goes out to the O’Melia family. What an awful and painful way to find out how worthless “the system” actually is.
I wonder if there's any studies on the effects it has on people with hearing impairments.
Interesting question!
great question
Regardless of her body's terrifying and strange reaction to ANY drug or who provided the drugs (alcohol and marijuana are both drugs), the bottom line is that she CHOSE to ingest the drugs, and so should be held accountable for her actions while on the drugs. I'm right there with you John. So terribly sorry for the Chad family. I agree with them. She did murder him, so she should stand trial for murder. That being said, I agree with others below, I observed one person who tried pot for the first time and went absolutely berserk, and if he hadn't been surrounded and protected by friends, would have definitely harmed himself or someone else.
Well written, you're so right to point this out.
@@christiegroves Thank you. 👍
I agree! I believe she could of had a violent reaction to weed but as all things we do we have a choice.
@@lachandashawna1003 Agreed. Exactly. She CHOSE to partake.
I quit Smoking for about 10 years. Then i smoke some of the new medical Grade Weed with Friends. While i didnt Go psychotic, it was Not pleasurable. I was Heavily intoxicated, paranoid, and unable to move.😅 Weed is too strong now for non regular Users 😅
I have smoked pot a handful of times since I was 18, 27 years ago. I've hated it almost every time. The last time I used thc, my brother had mixed me a very small amount of oil, a 1:1 mix with CBD, which was the same mixture he used for the pot brownies he made for our dad who had recently been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer (this was in December 2018, he passed in March 2020). My father, who had never used ANY drug before, had a normal, calm reaction. He was basically just stoned. I hallucinated for 8 straight hours. I had to lie down and continuously open and close my eyes because when they were open, the ceiling was dropping on me, and when they were closed, the bed was swallowing me up. It was miserable! It started with feeling like I couldn't breathe. I hate thc, and I can't even use cbd of any kind. I think there needs to be a lot more research done. I don't see how people could think she was lying about her experience, since it doesn't make sense for her to just all of the sudden become a vicious murderer.
I should add that I completely understand and agree with your issue with the charges. A life was taken, and in a gruesome and painful manner. In addition, she did voluntarily used the intoxicating substance. Responsibility has never been excused in any other case when voluntary use of a substance results in death or assault. Both families are in my thoughts and prayers. There are 2 beautiful and intelligent young people whose lives are over, even if she gets to live a normal life, the life she had before is gone forever, and she'll never forget what she's done. Yes, she should be prosecuted and punished in some way. This is just an all-around sad case.
We once smoked regular pot with a girl who flipped out and thought she was going to die. She got us all in trouble with our parents. It was just schwag. I believe it can happen but not to this Extent
"Freaking out" in a temporary sense is rare but does happen, psychosis triggered by THC or where THC was a contributing factor is even rarer, and a THC psychosis which then leads to _violence_ is _extremely_ rare. But like any psychosis, it _can_ on rare occasions become violent.
Freaking out is often just anxiety, and totally separate from the full blown psychosis being claimed in this case
In my experience weed made me very anxious, one time I was afraid my body was going to "forget to breathe" and I would die. I wasn't anxious about others hurting me. rather my own body failing me.
@addiegraves3 that happened to me the one and only time I ever tried an opiate pill. It is a scary feeling.
@@Olds_Gold I believe you, Opiates are a central nervous system depressant, You're C.N.S regulates breathing. I have taken Opiates in the past thankfully It didn't have a remarkable effect on my breathing. I can see why it could effect others in this manner. Glad you're still here to share your story ❤
Many years ago, a teenage student of mine suffered a total psychotic break. He ended up locked down in a psych ward, incapable of speaking English (he had been bilingual), suffering hallucinations, etc. We found that there was schizophrenia on his father's side, and a few days prior to the psychotic break, he had tried marijuana for the first time. I personally researched the subject and found that there is research indicating that if a person has the schizophrenia gene, smoking marijuana can trigger the disease. This whole case reminds me intensely of what happened to him. I think it's very possible that the marijuana induced a psychotic break.
This is just bizarre to me! Wow. Thank you for sharing!
Marijuana from dispensaries is crazy strong now. I have a really hard time finding flower that is under 20% THC. There’s no reason it needs to be that potent IMO. I have seen psychosis from marijuana happen IRL. It’s not the same weed from 30 years ago. People need to be educated more about the potency. That being said what she did was horrible, I hope she gets the help she needs but I also hope she is held accountable.
Bullshit...THC% is a sham...most recreational flower doesn't pass testing and when it does for potency it still doesn't mean its dank or quality smoke...I'd rather smoke that seedy commercial from back in the day that actually burned correctly instead of this chemically grown overly dry non cured weed being sold today...LEGALLY
The reduced charge to involuntary manslaughter is crazy. Drunk drivers who kill someone in an accident don't get charged with involuntary.
I can't say that I understand exactly what happened here but I do know that just because you've consumed substances that doesn't excuse your actions while under the influence of said substances. A man lost his life here and there's no way that this woman shouldn't be punished for taking his life. I feel like even if she thought she was trying to protect herself from him or some unseen force that she was imagining, I don't see how going to such extremes would have been warranted. I also don't understand what the supposed argument they had could have been about. No matter which way you look at it being under the influence isn't a defense for murder. Another question I have is how did she have such easy access to a knife in a home where she didn't even live.
We love to anthropomorphize our dogs,; often giving them human characteristics because we love them so much and believe they love us in the same (very human) way. Unfortunately, this is not really the case. Our dogs do love us, but they are still dogs and can only love us in the ways appropriate to canine behavior.
The courts should really seek out the advice of a dog behavioralist. When dogs become part of a chaotic situation such as a physical fight, they do not necessarily “side” with their “beloved” owner, even though our human nature wants to believe this. Often, due to fear and the increase in endorphins and other hormones, dogs will blindly lash out or even choose to assist a pack member that they perceive as being “bullied” (for lack of a better, less human term). It is very possible Brynn had to injure her own dog to get it off of her if, in the melee, the dog chose to attack her and not Chad. There is also the possibility that the dogs simply became confused and scared and turned on both humans. These beware very common under such chaotic circumstances. Furthermore, the humans may not be covered in bite marks if the dogs snapped at their close or simply could not get a well placed knife.
It’s hard to believe nobody thought this through at the time, but it seems strange that the defense is implying Brynn stabbed her own dog simply because she was experiencing “psychosis”. Frankly, the idea that dogs become somewhat aggressive and turned off the humans out of instinct.
Either way, my heart goes out to Chad’s family. I hope they receive the justice they deserve.
That is an interesting thought, I hope that this was looked into but I doubt it.
There’s no report that the dig attacked her but she attacked the dog and also stabbed herself.
Had to stop this video half way, will come back to it later when I am painting . Too much rage, need to breathe. I hate this woman so much…
You are an excellent speaker!
The very first time I (diagnosed with both a mood and anxiety disorder and ADHD) smoked the green leaf, I smoked a strong Dutch variety. I turned mellow. Every other time I've ingested any since then (two more times), I just fell asleep. To me, it was a supremely boring experience. I know many people who smoke it, and smoke regularly. NONE of them has ever experienced this before. It's honestly not entirely believable.
Besides which, if someone decides to go drunk driving and then accidentally kills someone, what are they charged with?
First time I smoked I was calm but I had a friend in high school who would get hyper, paranoid, angry, aggressive. It’s so interesting how we all act differently. Maybe we just shouldn’t do drugs, life is weird enough as is lol
This is a very serious story done very well, so i shall pause now to chuckle & remember all the ridiculous "angel dust" stories (my HS friends won state in Drama for a morality play about PCP, we captured their 'crazy faces' in the newspaper, thank heavens) and reading books like Ask Alice, which had me convinced PCP was in *everything.* lol turns out, drug running WAS going on in our town, but it was meth & no one was handing it to notoriously goody two shoed high schoolers like us lol...
If alcohol can be used as a defense, there are sooooo many people that should be free then.
Yeah, did you hear about the pilot on mushrooms that tried to crash the plane? Same defense.
I can tell you this is 1000% feasible. I can tell u from experience. I was completely insane my first tiny toke. I literally was insane. Thank goodness I had pp around me that did the right thing. I could've easily ended up like her. I've heard from so many women that they've had similar experiences. I think it's a first try when you've had past un-dealt-with trauma.
Same. I had a support system around me as well, which is the only way I got through it. Never again!
"Spejcher's defense attorney asked Mena if it was possible that all of O'Melia's injuries, except the ones in places he could not reach, were inflicted by the victim." What in the actual f*ck? Her defense is seriously trying to imply that he stabbed himself like 97 times, and then Bryn responded to it like, "Hey, that looks fun. I think I'll poke him a couple times too?"
Update: she got probation. Hope you cover your thoughts on the verdict. Would love to hear it.
I was just coming to say this. So shocking and scary precedent
When my oldest son was in high school, he had bad reactions to THC the handful of times he tried it. He would also think he was going to die and would ask me to sit up with him all night. Even begged me to take him to the ER one of the times, not even caring if he got in legal trouble. I can't say for sure if her defense is legitimate or not, but my son felt like that from the first hit. Though he does have underlying mental health issues like you mentioned. And he was never violent, just scared and anxious.
this was in my town and its so sad... rest in peace chad.... theres a lot that i could say about law enforcement in this area.... look up the rebecca grossman trial
Such a sad and strange case. I just had two things. One, Washington U in St Louis is one of the best medical schools in the country. And, where did she get the knife, did she carry one?
Thank you John, superb professional, you are caring, thoughtful, ❤️🙏✡️✝️
She took half a hit of stale smoke and allegedly went into psychosis? Absurd. A panic attack is possible, not psychosis. And even the rare instances where it’s alleged chronic marijuana use triggered the onset of an episode of psychosis, it’s in an individual with a diagnosis of schizophrenic disorder. I lived with someone that regularly smoked who has schizophrenia, and it was not his smoking that would exacerbate or trigger psychotic symptoms. It was amphetamines. Never figured out exactly what he was using, but it would cause him to not sleep, and that’s what would start the ball rolling towards another psychosis episode.
Even with alcohol use, I still don’t see that being the reason why the stabbing happened. That’s two depressants she’d be on. Just alcohol and a minute amount of THC that’s questionable if it would even effect her in such a small amount? Nah…It’s more likely there was a conversation about their relationship going on that triggered her violent reaction.
A few weeks doesn’t necessarily mean there weren’t deep feelings involved already. Especially if they were already intimate. People can get very attached very quickly once they sleep together, particularly when it’s two people that are well educated, intelligent, reasonably good looking, etc. Perhaps he wanted to keep things casual but she did not, and was enraged by what she viewed as rejection of an accomplished woman. 108 stab wounds…she also stabbed her dog and herself? Sounds like she was thinking they’d go together, maybe?
Definitely sounds like something like schizophrenia which normally happens when a person is their 20s, but it can happen as young as early childhood (which might be a factor in the hallucinations when she was a kid).
This case should have been handled more cut-and-dry than it is, between her admissions and the witness.
I’m bi polar and when the gummy’s came out in Minnesota I ate one. I did think I was dying, talking to gods. My heart was racing really fast. It lasted several hours and was apparently because I ate the whole gummy and I wasn’t supposed to. First and last time for me. However, I didn’t want to kill anyone. I did make my fiancé watch me because I truly believed I was dying. I think more studies need to be done on people with mental illnesses. We are just now getting some research because it’s becoming more legal. However, it’s sad that this story happened. Really no different than a drunk driver.
The conflicting information about the nature of the relationship sounds to me like it was a sexual relationship but not a romantic one - they weren't dating, but were sleeping together. If she wanted more or felt she had been misled, that adds a couple of possibilities - either rejection alone was the motive and she came up with the psychosis defense afterwards, or some combination of rejection, a personality disorder or past trauma that makes rejection even more triggering and intense than it is for most of us, paranoia from the mj, the alcohol in her system, and/or an underlying predisposition to psychosis created a perfect storm to bring on a break from reality.
Yeah, not one shred of evidence leads me to think she didn't know EXACTLY what she was doing 🤷🏽♀️
She wasn't an eye rolling, jibbering, drooling maniac. She didn't try to murder the roommate. She didn't run out on the street stabbing random strangers. She was coherent. She "remembers" wanting Chad to stay awake. She got the knife.... 🙄
She's probably like that Shabusiness idiot and just wanted to kill someone.... making her very, very dangerous
She wanted LESS.
I just heard about this case from a short clip on TT. I took one look at her and I GUARANTEE that she is closeted regarding her sexuality and he tried to do something intimate with her after smoking which they hadn't done before or EVER, and it TRIGGERED something violent in her. For a WOMAN to stab a MAN and overcome HIM, she had to have A LOT of RAGE inside her that was bottled up and she unleashed it on him.
I’ve smoked off an on for years but switched strictly to a vape pen rather than flower. A previous partner of mine kept offering me bong hits unit one night I finally agreed. I have asthma and small lungs,. I knew better but I “cleared” the bong after his hit. I coughed so bad I thought I was dying, I threw up, and laying down the room was spinning so violently I wanted everything to stop. I could maybe see how if someone felt triggered or unsafe in a unfamiliar space they could react this way
It’s true John Lordan. Years ago studying at university I tried marijuana. First hand experience of psychosis from trying a ‘bucket bong’. Encouraged by others too. I thought my roomies were out to kill me. I thought they had hidden the house phone so I couldn’t call for help. It was actually just in the couch or something. I wanted to call emergency to say they were trying to kill me! Luckily I didn’t get the chance. I thought they had spiked the weed. All to get me. They tried to calm me down but I was too far gone. I didn’t kill anyone..but that experience was extremely scary. It’s a horrible feeling and this was from one hit. Unfortunate situation here but it wasn’t murder. Murder shows intent. She hardly knew Chad! She stabbed her own dog! It’s clear that she tried some weed..new relationship..hanging out. Then this psychosis took over. You can’t understand this but trust me…I can absolutely see this happening. This wasn’t murder John.
This may seem outlandish but when you think about the projects done by our scientists experimenting with the human brain, its not out of the realm of possibilities that some of these strange cases with the suspect saying those "voices in my head told me to do it" are exactly that.
It s a crazy case.. I am a smoker and never I ever loose control with weed.....
Madness was already in her and she snap..
2 degree murder must be her
I feel like she was really psychotic when it happened. She didn’t want to do this. Nothing in her history shows she’d ever do anything like this. I really feel for chads family though. I’m sure they really want justice but I just don’t know what that would be in this case. Really sad.
So, basically, SHE makes her own personal decision to "try hitting the bong," then SHE grabs two knives and stabs him over 100 times... and now HE is being blamed for being the one who "supplied the weed" while she skates off with a slap on the wrist? Yeah, this is one of the most despicable cases I've ever seen. Even if she ends up being found guilty of involuntary manslaughter, and even if the judge gave her the maximum available punishment, it still wouldn't be even remotely close to proper justice being served. RIP Chad. My sincere condolences to his family and loved ones. I can't even begin to imagine the anguish they're being forced to endure throughout this entire shitshow.
Face is looking thinner. Another great program. Stay well
I know someone that cannot mix alcohol and weed. They become very mean and angry and the next day, they say they don't remember anything. This person was okay if they just drank (would still be mean and violent with the alcohol just not as bad)or if they just smoked but if they combine them it wasn't good. This person also could not combine beer and hard alcohol or wine or they would become mean and violent. Combining the liquors would have the same effect as combining weed and alcohol for this person.
I just commented a second ago that the worst reactions I've ever had to pot were when mixing it with alcohol! They can be a fun mix, but overdoing it, or doing it at all for some people is just a bad idea. I wonder if she'd also been drinking that night? I also had a friend (and university roommate!) who was the most mellow guy ever, including when he was stoned, but when he drank he'd pick fights with anyone. Luckily, he was a lanky little thing who we'd nicknamed Shaggy after the Scooby Doo character, so he was easy to get under control when he felt like fighting. Still, chemicals of any sort can make people act completely out of character, though on its own, pot still seems to be the safest I've encountered.
I did this when younger and doing both would make me angry.
I think some people probably just have bad reactions to weed. It seems rare for it to be this extreme, but it makes sense that its possible.
Reminder premeditated murder can happen in mear minutes, not saying it happen in this case. Ppl tend to think it takes days or weeks that's not always the case
It kind of reminds me of the reaction Karlie Guse's father and stepmother described from the night before she disappeared.
Ever since certain states legalized pot I had my reservations about it. I personally can't tolerate it. I haven't had any for 60 years. Right, 60 years. I had used it probably 30 times and just hated the experience. Way back then I finally told my friends I didn't want any anymore. They promptly decided I worked for the police. I didn't.
I'm not crazy. I've led a successful life and raised a spectacular daughter. I do not take drugs and I'm not an alcoholic. But I can tell you that not all brains are equipped to deal with cannabis. When I smoke it I can't understnd what people are saying. I can't speak. I don't know what time it is. I am not sure what I'm doing. I can't remember anything. I can't plan a simple task, like walking home or god forbid driving. Interestingly, Robin Williams claimed to have very similar experiences.
I think we will be seeing lots of cases like this as time goes on.
It cracks me up how they can blame pot for stuff like this yes unless it was lasted with pcp but sounds to me she's just a loon and would have gone off eventually lock her up and leave her
Her legal responsibility for being in a psychotic state is what matters. She is causally responsible but not legally, as she, like most of us, had no idea that psychosis could result from smoking marijuana. Her ignorance was not culpable because it isn’t something that she should have known or taken to be likely. This is what the prosecution believes, at least
Yikes! An adult smoking a drug should be held accountable for what they do while on that drug. My opinion
I have witnessed marijuana “psychosis” (I guess you could call it that anyways) and he was just panicking, scared that he was dying. Paying very close attention to his heart rate etc. Started talking about religion and things you would think of if death were imminent. It was strange but I wasn’t afraid of him in the moment, more so sympathetic.
I have various mental health issues, including PTSD. I had to stay away from weed as a teenager because it would just make me delusional.
She stated she was annoyed that he was intoxicated and she wasn't feeling it. So she was pushing to have more without giving herself time to be sure that she was fully feeling the effects.
I know more than one person who got annoyed that they weren't feeling anything, and rapidly took more, and when they did feel intoxicated it was too much and they had a bad experience.
It's possible that she had an awful reaction. But we can't be sure that that's the case.
Being intoxicated and losing control, losing your grip on reality... Even if a person was completely sober but they were not aware of what they were doing, that should require a long sentence if not in prison than a mental health facility.
At the very least there is something wrong, and there's too many variables to work out when she's a danger to herself or others.
I've been completely delusional twice. If I did something like this I would expect to be held accountable. Whether it was a sentence in prison, with the fact I wasn't of sound mind taken into account... I would expect years. Or an indefinite stay in a mental health facility.
When I was delusional the stuff I believed was real was laughable. I'm able to see that with hindsight. But I didn't commit any crimes due to these beliefs.
I want to feel sympathy given that I've been completely delusional before myself, but all I feel is questionable towards her version of events. It could be accurate, but it doesn't fully add up. She's not well, therefore she needs to be rehabilitated.
As a recovering weed addict, I can tell you that marijuana DOES affect your chemical balance. My father and step mother have been addicts for 30 plus years and until I became a mother, I did not realize how mentally ill we all were! we get, lethargic, anxious, paranoid, mean, lazy, angry and if I smoke certain strains I get hyper and violent. Marijuana is not “chill”, it is a psychoactive drug that messes with your perception of reality. It is in no way a defense to this murderer, she is a consenting adult who should be held accountable for her crime. But thought I would share my experience
Thank you for sharing your experiences. You have a point.
Its a very bizarre story. I wouldn't take much stock on family members saying she was never a drug user, quiet and shy. Often parents and relatives are very much in the dark about the real lives of their children, grandchildren etc and what they get up to with their peers. Do we even believe this was the only time they ever used a bong together or the first time she'd ever smoked marijuana? The only way I could believe it is if she had other medication in her system or had an underlying neurological condition or psychopathy. I suppose they could try giving her the drugs again under controlled conditions? Yeah I know no one would ever agree with the ethics of that - let alone her defence team!
The Prosecutor is letting this family and Chad down. She made the choice to take a hit. For her to be out this whole time and living her life while Chad is dead is so wrong. She has taken no accountability. I think the Prosecutor is just trying to get a win and they feel this is the easiest way to get a win. But it isn't justice for Chad. They should be ashamed.
It can also depend on how its grown/manufactured, and it can be laced etc...twice only in my life ive mixed both mj and alcohol (in small amounts) and on those occasions ive hallucinated and flipped out. Very scary experiences. I can understand how some ppl can go crazy. Ive seen first hand how an older relative violently unleashed on me, after taking an incorrect dosage of his 'prescribed pharmaceutical medication'.
Ive experienced the sucidal tendencies after taking a low dose valium and years before that a 3wk stint on antidepressants. Its ALL bad and should be avoided at all costs in my opinion.
I think its beyond disgusting that 3wks after she murdered Chad, she was posting online her fun family vacation! She is accountable for murder. The lesson in all of this is to teach our youth and others to never ever touch these substances and avoid situations where we could be unwittingly drugged.
I watched some scenes from Reefer Madness a few years ago and, through the eyes of modern society, morality and knowledge it looked indeed like a ridiculous portrayal of marijuana use. I have smoked every day of my life for about 20/25 years and, despite suffering from cyclical depression, I've never experienced psychosis. That said, I have indeed heard of young people, usually with underlying issues, having severe episodes due to pot smoking. I believe it can happen, even if it never happened to me and I admit to normally having a dismissive attitude towards people believing one hit can make you mad, suicidal or homicidal (mostly because I believe giving credence to this school of thought will do more harm than good to the legalisation discussion, but this is a topic for another day...)
One other factor to keep in mind is the type of marijuana: some types are much , much stronger than others. As I already said, I believe it's a very rare phenomenon, but this kind of thing can happen.
Whether all this makes her less guilty in the eyes of the law or whether it's a feasible defensive line I'm really not sure.
It's true. It depends on who you are. THC especially the sativa variety amplifies things. That's why you get paranoid. Most people are a little paranoid in the back of their head and the trick is to relax, or get happy, or laugh, because what ever you are feeling deep inside, it brings it out and amplifies it sevenfold, and it's like a freight train, you just have to know how to steer it. But there's always that one person, the secret serial killer, who, when they smoke, something very bad comes out... but it is as rare as running into such a person.
Sativa definitely has a head high that can trigger anxiety attacks in people. Indica would be a better choice for people who that happens to imo. Also know your tolerance especially with edibles.
1:26 Some Supernanny episodes took place in this town
I haven't used pot in over 20+ years but had an edible chocolate about 5 years ago and was watching a RUclipsr and I was convinced they were talking to me and only me...not the 10k followers. I NEVER ate another one.
She was sentenced today to 100 hours community service! What do you think about that?
Dear John, I think that cases of psychosis after first ingesting marijuana may be much, much more common than the statistics show. They only include cases where the sufferer has sought medical help or where some criminal act has taken place. In a situation where psychosis manifests itself in a group of very young people and they are able to care for the sufferer themselves, the case may not be included in the statistics at all, as minors will not be eager for publicity. We had a similar case in our youth. We were not minors, but marijuana was (and is) illegal in our country. A friend very close in age to the victim in your case, who never drank or smoked, had a psychotic break after a single marijuana intake. Our friends were able to restrain her, but she lunged at anyone, screamed, had severe hallucinations, and squeezed my hand with such force that she tore through my skin with her fingernails to a great depth. The next day she remembered absolutely nothing.
If someone drives under the influence of pot, alcohol or other drugs and is involved in an accident, fatal or otherwise, their impairment will add to the severity of any criminal charges. They couldn't say as a defence "The drugs made me drive." So I don't see how it could be used to get you off a murder charge. In regards to the effects of weed use in general; I've used it both intermittently and regularly for periods on and off for 35 years. I've mixed with both regular and first time users. Not once have I witnessed anyone become violent because of it. However, the mind altering effects should not be underestimated and I think they might be by someone who has never taken it before and their only references to its effects are from pop culture. One also needs to consider that the THC content varies widely across the many different strains available. Short term paranoia can occur soon after consumption. It's fairly common. So much so that it is given the slang term 'the fear.' If someone experiences this they are usually talked out of it by other users within the group. Again, I've never seen it escalate into violence.
In conclusion, I guess what I'm saying is that someone becoming violent after using weed is an exceptionally rare event. This is the first time I've ever heard of it. But add to that the fact she'd never tried it before and she'd also been drinking alcohol then it becomes slightly more likely. However it's still not a reason to avoid criminal charges.
They might be just trying to make sure they get *some sort* of conviction. They might be thinking that *some* accountability is better than none at all. At least she will have a record in case she has more episodes.😥😥
Were the two people tested ? Was the bing tested ? Was the weed tested ?
I smoke weed.. its legal in canada but if someone was killed if they smoke pot... they wasnt excused for it ... its like b0oze... its legal but.. if you killed someone under the influence of alcohol... you will be punished... so it should be the same if the person smoked some weed and she killed someone she should be punished. I think in Canada its not an excuse ... even if you are driving a vehicle under the influence of drugs... its a crime... it shouldn't be an excuse...
BUT if she had a psychosis... its another thing... she must ne treated for it... but if she used this defense to not be prosecuted... sorry she has to be punished..
"bath salts" perhaps? ---
undetectable, no legit screening available because of the formulation(s)
It's the same debate with the opiates, if you sell someone opiates and they OD, it's going to be your ass sitting in prison.
I don't really agree with that, regardless of the drug involved.
It's meant to be a deterrent to dealers, but these laws are written by people who refuse to learn about addiction. Deterrents do not work with addicted people & the ratio of doing the thing to getting caught in this area is so low, most dealers find the economic risk acceptable, usually a decision made by someone whose ass is not in danger....
@@standdownrobots_ihaveoldglory I agree. If those deterrents worked, there wouldn't be addicts. I know from personal experience that only treatment and lifestyle changes can pull you out of the depths of that hell.
First time i smoked i got sick and threw up. After that you pretty much just feel like laughing, hungry, mellow, tired... I just don't believe it was the weed. At all.
While "reefer madness" sounds unbelievable, you really never know. Myself and my grandfather both have bad reactions to Nyquil that produces hallucinations and night terrors. So, while it's very unlikely, I wouldn't totally rule it out.
Nobody is a professional at smoking Marijuana their first time😂 I will say the Marijuana now a days definitely isn't what we had in the 90s. Either way, I couldn't imagine this happening the first time. A friend's son has developed early psychosis and we concluded that it came on probably from weed as well as genetics. However, he has NEVER even thought of hurting anyone, or should I say showed signs that he would act out or go "nuts". This is weird. How about the blood work?
There's a wild PCP story from 2014 involving Christ Bearer - a Wu-Tang Clan affiliated rapper. I'll spare the details here but one can Google it if interested.
This is awful, but welcome to California. The State where nothing is your fault and the bigger the crime the more compassion is key. Cause and effect doesn't exist here, and if it does, the cause is always someone else. This is becoming more prominent in my State and its so sad to see😢 The enabling here is leading to disabling people.
As a reefer user, I understand it can effect everyone different but every time this is used as a self-defense it really pisses me off. IF and a big if marijuana was the issue I refuse to believe it wasn't laced with something.
edit: commented before it was acknowledged, I hope they tested that bong.
Excellent video, absolutely love the psychological in depth discovery about this case! Very nicely done ❤
Taylor Schabusiness just had methamphetamine induced psychosis then?
Ashleigh Banfield covered this on News Nation tonight . She also spoke to the father .
I kinda feel like there could very well be more to the story. Have a hard time believing she could stab him 108 times and him not be able to subdue her during that time, knock her out , hit over the head something? Do something to get her to stop. I guess if the first stab wounds was fatal or rendering him unable to defend himself maybe but apparently long after it had started he was still able to tell a friend she has stabbed me. I don’t know but seems like it’s possible she could have had help idk
If he did that to her, he'd be locked up in prison already. She's a woman and women could never intentionally harm a man not even stabbing a man 108 times could be this Poor Little Girl's Fault!
I believe her. I can't smoke weed. I don't become violent, but it makes me feel awful and bizarre.
35:30 me it happens to me , ive tried it 3x in my life and all its sooo scary! I have schizo Episode. I feel so heard rn becos i say this all the time and people literally get mad or laugh and dont believe me !!! I always say im allergic to it
Although not to the same degree, weed doesn't agree with me either and it's so frustrating when people act like it's a perfect drug for everyone. So weed can have mental effects like sleepiness, feelings of calm, pain reduction, euphoria, heightened libido etc, but somehow people won't believe there could possibly be any negative mental/emotional effects for anyone ever??
I knew someone who would have delusions when drinking, and they weren't mixing it with any other drug - prescription or otherwise. Rare reactions occur with any drug.
Outside of US so throwing questions out there...if weed is legal in a lot of states, were there peer reviewed clinical studies proving that weed is essentially safe which were used to base legalisation on? Are there any reports from medical establishments which would support the mental break scenario? Ie 1500 similar reports of psychosis nationally allowing a propensity for this to occur? What were the results of her assessment..detailed i mean
In my opinion she wasnt forced to drink or smoke..that was her choice made willingly. I think 2nd degree murder is more than an acceptable charge to levy.
My thoughts go out to Chad's friends and family. I hope they receive justice. Best regards from the UK
I'm a mental health professional who smoked quite a lot of weed with my rocker roomies back when I was in undergrad, and also lives in Canada, where pot has been legal since 2018. In some people, overuse of cannabis can cause paranoia. It's not actually a terribly rare reaction; I've experienced it myself, usually when mixing pot with alcohol. It's not fun, but though I've seen people panic from what's known as pot paranoia, I've never once seen anyone become violent from it.
One thing that research has revealed is that, in young people particularly, cannabis use *can* trigger latent psychotic disorders, just like other psychoactive drugs can. If someone has an unknown genetic tendency toward schizophrenia, for example, smoking pot, especially heavily, can activate that disorder. I don't personally know of any cases where a single use has caused psychosis, but I suppose it could be theoretically possible. I don't think it's highly likely without other substances being involved though.
@thing_under_the_stairs thanks for the reply. Would that suggest that her assessment showed underlying triggers do you think? Pot is decriminalised here but still classed as a class c drug and is still illegal. If it is a small amount police won't do anything. Obviously if it is a kilo of weed, that is a different story. I haven't heard of any attacks in the UK where weed has caused a psychotic break and turned violent. If this did happen in the UK the charge would be manslaughter because we only have murder then manslaughter. It is an interesting case though
Something is definitely really wrong here, but I think probably most people who aren't licensed medical doctors would find it very difficult to convince all these medical professionals by giving all the correct symptoms for psychosis, and I mean all of those symptoms, a lot of them, continuously.
Maybe we're missing some of the information in this case, at this point? Are we? Is it supposedly all laid bare at this point, all details out to the public?
What a sad situation for the dog and victim. I think it was more likely the alcohol for sure that triggered her violent rage. I wonder if she was on some medication as well, and mixing the two, I don't know what that would be like, but I highly doubt most of us drunk and on weed would never ever hurt our own dog let alone stab someone over 100 times death. He must have broke up with her or saw some sign that she was not all there and wanted her out of the house thus the argument, it's pretty clear to me something said triggered her. Maybe she was a stalker type and wouldn't go away and him being a nice guy couldn't get away. Just my thoughts, nothing more and no harm meant.
This happened in California. I'm sorry, but what did you expect from the prosecutors? They let killers and thieves out every day. No way I'd ever step foot in that state.
Prayers for Chad and his family.
Pray tell what state do you live in? One that allows them to walk free so long as they fit into a certain tax bracket?
This is injustice. Total injustice. She’s free for years while the family suffers. Ridiculous. I’ve never, ever seen anyone go nuts on weed. They laugh, they sit around being weird & they sleep. Involuntary my behind.
The Marijuana of today is nothing like it was in all of our history. It’s super potent in some cases, and people that have never used before should start with tiny puffs off bowls, not drags from a bong. Any drug user should know that know a days. It’s the biggest problem with legalization. The constant need to make things more and more potent with no real regulation. It’s as dumb as starting with 30 percent moonshine when you have never drank. I imagine that girl felt all the things she said and had a panic attack, she was probably super pissed at him for getting in the shape she was. I’m not defending her actions, she should be in jail or in a mental hospital for a long long time. But only an immature asshole would let some newly, never before smoked person take a drag off a bong to start out. No other drugs are needed with todays weed. It’s more than potent enough to bring on horrible shit like Drug induced psychosis. Don’t believe me, look at the rate of ER admittance from THC consumption in the last 5 years and compare it to the late 80s early 90s and 00s. I’m all for decriminalization and legalization, but like everything the U.S. does , they do it ass backwards. There need to be limits on shit. There is no harm placing potency limits on what can be sold. It’s the responsible thing to do.
As an advocate for pain medicine for those in chronic pain I had to learn a lot about drugs. There is later onset schizophrenia. It usually hits at a younger age but can come on as late as 40s. They need to check if mental illness is in the family. That makes it more likely she has issues that may just haven’t shown yet. If they are having her go to therapy they will encourage things like doing blogs or hobbies whatever she’s doing to keep her level if she really does have a mental issue. I also wonder if she has been put on psychiatric meds. And was she on meds before this happened? Did they say she was or was it just beer? This case reminds me of the boy who attacked & killed the couple in the garage. She was new to THC was she new to alcohol? Perhaps should this not have happened she would be a late onset schizophrenic. I foresee a future where her mental health will deteriorate but the question is is it because she was born with a mental illness that hadn’t shown yet or would it be because of what she did. It’s things like this that makes drugs that could help people get a bad label. There’s no clear cut solution.
108 stab wounds and they don't feel like they can beat involuntary manslaughter???? First, she chose to take the drugs and stabs him not once, not twice but 108 times, using 2 different knives, and the intent is not to kill???? That is crazy and it's even more crazy it is the prosecutor that is giving in. Take it to trial and let a jury decide between manslaughter and 2nd degree.
I wonder what both peoples relationship history is like?
Any pattern of toxic behaviour with exes?
There was another Washington University School of Medicine St Louis MO student in 2017 who murdered a prominent lawyer in the EDWARDSVILLE il area Gore attorney named Gore