Very nice, we are building a neon setup at our Makerspace. We have almost the identical bombarding transformer. We bought a Welch 1400 with a diffusion pump mounted on it. I am really looking forward to getting our setup going.I tested our transformer with a megger as well as we put 8k on the primary & verified the output voltage on the secondary, the soon to be primary. I do heavy commercial/industrial HVAC, so I’m pretty good at electrical. I have the gear to test if medium voltage is present. It was interesting hearing/seeing the voltage detector going off as far as I was away with it. I’ll be sure to check out your other videos.
Excellent video!! not too many folks out there sharing this kind of information. This is EXACTLY my Fall/Winter project. Been practicing bending for a bit now, think I'm "close enough" to making my own pieces light up. Probably going to watch this a time or two more. Looking forward to the next videos.
@@NeonPreservation Yes, SAFE!!!! I'm excited and nervous at the same time. Guess they don't call it a dead mans switch for nothing....Haaa. I am sure I will have a question or two when I get to that point.
thank you! bending for years, but never had to be pro at the bombarding part. will watch all your videos, more than once, and see what questions i have then.
excellent! obviously i am merely an amateur hobbyist, but i will gladly answer questions you may have about my setup. the online community of neon professionals is very helpful as well!
It is interesting that you were able to find a dedicated transformer for this, I rigged up a utility distribution transformer I got hold of to be the bombarder. It's huge and stuffed somewhere in my garage. I think it was 8000 Volts with 240V input and I wired it up to an input transformer that put the output to 18K. At one time I had an electrical fault and an arc that looked like a jacobs ladder went across the table.
@@NeonPreservation It is good that today we have the internet to see where stuff like this can be found. When I started it was so difficult to contact others, all we had was long distance phone calls and those could get expensive. When I tried to find the ribbon burner I gave up and ended up making my own homemade jet torch instead. If I ever mess with this stuff again I will look around to see if any old neon shop equipment is in storage somewhere. Most of the shops I remember have long gone out of business.
indeed. the internet can be a wealth of information! one of the reasons i started this channel was because i was looking for videos about neon equipment & neon sign restoration, but there wasn't much to be found. i decided to change that.
Wow. Just found this half way through building a full Daco system myself. Hands down the best most helpful pump build on the internet, ever imo. This video has been so valuable you have no idea. Our set ups are v similar, moving on to the manifold next, would love to see your part 3, need all the help I can get 😂
hey, I'm glad you liked the video! i have a Daco manifold i will be setting up as well. i am going to post an interim update in a couple days showing more work ive done on the setup... then i will move on to the vacuum system! stay tuned, and good luck with yours!
1:00 - why does bombarding requires massive electrical transformer of the kind we see out from our homes? I can make or buy the same transformer specification but the size will be like a football and heavy maybe 5 or less pounds. Its called Switch Mode Power Supply (SMPS), these are the future of "transformers" and will replace the analog transformers because they are extremely efficient and compact. If you're doing things old school ways... that's understandable.
two things are required while processing a neon tube: heating the tube to burn out impurities, and converting the coating on the electrode shells. generally, electrode manufacturers suggest a finishing current of around 10x the electrode's normal operating current (e.g., 600mA for a 60mA electrode), and a bombarding transformer is one way to heat the tube and process the electrodes at the same time. other methods-like oven pumping with induction heating of electrodes-will also satisfy the requirements of processing, but are often more involved and require more space/equipment. i am using the bombarder because i like the traditional style of doing things, and well... because i have it. haha. i may some day attempt to construct a kiln to try my hand at some oven pumping, but until then i will continue to hone my skills on the bombarder.
Were you able to find any documentation in the transformer online? I've got almost the same one, but mine is strictly 220, and I have the choke. I have been given my uncle's neon plant, and I would like to get started in the process, but I want to be as safe as possible and find documentation to study first. Great video, keep up the neon work!
my friend, the neon historian/archaeologist Robert Haus, sent me the PDF he scanned of a Sola product information brochure from 1955... if that's what you're looking for, send me an email at the address in my profile and i can forward it to you. if instead you're just looking for general neon plant setup information, let me know in your email. i am not a professional, so i will not give you any "how-to" advice in regards to wiring/electrical stuff, but i can recommend some sources to can read so you can learn more information.
Hello, very helpful video to show how to do this safely. , do you have drawings for all your electricals? Thank you. We bought an old GE bombarder and choke from a neon shop in Buffalo years ago. The guy just grabbed the 220 input wires and touched the mains, well a bright blue flash soon came out of the panel as the bomber turned on. We bought it as it was working! He did scare the heck out of us.
yikes, that would be rather dramatic (not to mention dangerous)! as for my setup, the schematic i show in this video was drawn completely from memory. i spent hundreds of hours reading, studying, and learning about all the components to make sure i knew exactly how everything worked and how to assemble it safely.
What is that second transformer that you are using? The one that is hooked up before the "Daco" button and contactor. Is that used to step up or step down and what is the input and output of the transformer. Also what is the reason for it?
the small transformer in the Prewire Unit box transforms the input voltage to the voltage that the contactor uses. it has multiple primary wires so it can be used for a variety of input voltages. the Prewire Unit was sold preassembled as a kit from Daco, so they used a transformer that would supply the correct voltage for the contactor they used.
@@NeonPreservation So the contactor is basically another switch? And in order to use that switch it has a required voltage which is given by the transformer? I am trying to setup my own neon plant but there are no neon bombarders left so I have to use a pole pig that I will buy which uses 240v. I was going to wire 240v right to it with a switch, but what is the point of the contactor? Is it just a electrified safety switch?
a contactor is basically a relay that can handle high-current loads. this quick video might help: ruclips.net/video/gnasraApypo/видео.html they are used to control the bombarder in a safer manner than say, a knife switch or whatever. the button on my setup provides power to the contactor, which closes the circuit to the bombarder... adding a degree of separation between the user and the bombarder. the bombarder output is lethal and any mistakes will kill you. no second chances here, so be exceedingly careful. that schematic i show in this video i drew _from memory_ - thats how well i got to know the system before even attempting to set it up. do your homework and study everything. if you can, have an experienced neon bender safety-check your setup before using it.
@@NeonPreservation Got it! Thank you! That makes a lot of sense. An old friend of mine gave me all of his fires from his old neon shop he used to have but he sold all of the processing parts. Going to build on like you did. Thank you so much for you help and the videos that you make. They are super helpful. I want to keep the neon art alive like you do. Keep on making these great videos!
Are you showing how to use this equipment safely or just how to set it up? I'm caught between appreciation for lowering walls of secrecy in the trade/ providing access and resources and then being a stickler for extremely thorough safety with this equipment in its operation and troubleshooting during processing.
i agree 100% that safety is paramount with bombarding, as i definitely would rather not end up dead. this video is not a "how-to", but merely a video documentation of my personal journey on building this setup. i started with no knowledge of any of the equipment or how to set it up, and studied for hundreds of hours on how to do it correctly and safely. the schematic i showed was drawn completely from memory, which is how thoroughly i learned about every piece of equipment before even considering the setup. no doubt you noticed my redundant built-in safety features and safety precautions i have taken during the build. i also consulted with a professional if i had further questions during the setup. i have a healthy fear of the bombarder and i remind people of its lethality when they ask me questions about it.
Hey like the guy above me said. Probably the most useful piece of information for pumping set up ever on the entire internet.. but whats the use of the `prewire unit transformer`?
hello, I'm glad you found the video informative. the "prewire unit" is just a preassembled neon-specific deadman switch & contactor assembly that was available from Daco: web.archive.org/web/20070206115536/www.daconeon.com/products/bombarding.asp?page=4#pre-wired_safety_switch the transformer inside the box converts the input voltage (in my case 240v) to the voltage required to activate the contactor solenoid.
@@NeonPreservation Gotcha. Just did a quick google search for prewire related units and unfortunately couldn't find anything. You wouldnt by any chance know where I could pick one up? also was anything else you used preassembled?
yeah, im not sure if anyone specifically makes "prewire units" anymore. the ones (like mine) that Daco used to sell were built by them with just a few readily available parts (contractor, transformer, and a spring-loaded momentary button) assembled in a couple junction boxes and connected with a piece of extension cord. they were sold as an easy "plug & play" kind of option if you didn't want to bother collecting the parts yourself. occasionally neon processing equipment comes up on ebay or locally (e.g., FB marketplace or craigslist), or you can try asking around on some of the FB neon groups. the FB group "Neon And Plasma Art for Beginners" would be a decent place to start... there are professionals there who give advice to beginners and occasionally sell equipment as well.
if you want to buy one new, EGL has them: www.egl-lighting.com/bombarders/ if you're looking for used neon equipment, it is rather scarce. you'll have to be patient and watch on craigslist, FB marketplace & ebay. in lieu of a purpose-built bombarder, some people use a surplus step down pole mount distribution transformer (aka "pole pig") that is wired in reverse to step up the voltage instead.
Hey, great videos on neon man! Tis looks like quite a nice project. Could you you power the transformer with a regular household power output? Or do you need like a 3 phase power source? Greetings from Belgium.
thank you! here in the US the standard household wiring is 120v, and 240v is achieved by running two 120v lines that are out of phase with each other. so, to power this bombarding setup i have four wires from a 50amp circuit: 120v/120v/neutral/ground. the power you would need would depend on what the bombarding transformer requires for a primary input.
Great video, exclent subject, but I thought I would let you know that those feed through insulator's that you used are rated for 600 volts, and the device that they come out of, would replace your bombardier transformer, and the device is almost always located at the top of a power pole, and it to is a transformer, and the power that is feeding your Neon bombarding setup has to pass through three of those feed through insulator's to even get to your house's main panel!!! Well that is unless you live in a naborhood that is feed through underground, and has pad mount transformer's instead, as those are a little deferent, because they are protected from the weather beneath a hood!
you're right! not long after making this video, i discovered those feed-through insulators are indeed the secondary insulators from a pole-mount transformer. some neon shops actually run surplus pole-mount transformers "backwards" to step the voltage back up for high voltage bombarding, as an alternative for a purpose-built neon bombarding transformer like i have.
Very nice, we are building a neon setup at our Makerspace. We have almost the identical bombarding transformer. We bought a Welch 1400 with a diffusion pump mounted on it. I am really looking forward to getting our setup going.I tested our transformer with a megger as well as we put 8k on the primary & verified the output voltage on the secondary, the soon to be primary. I do heavy commercial/industrial HVAC, so I’m pretty good at electrical. I have the gear to test if medium voltage is present. It was interesting hearing/seeing the voltage detector going off as far as I was away with it. I’ll be sure to check out your other videos.
Excellent video!! not too many folks out there sharing this kind of information. This is EXACTLY my Fall/Winter project. Been practicing bending for a bit now, think I'm "close enough" to making my own pieces light up. Probably going to watch this a time or two more. Looking forward to the next videos.
thank you! every setup is different, but i hopefully this gives you some ideas. let me know if you have any questions. good luck and be safe!
@@NeonPreservation Yes, SAFE!!!! I'm excited and nervous at the same time. Guess they don't call it a dead mans switch for nothing....Haaa. I am sure I will have a question or two when I get to that point.
thank you! bending for years, but never had to be pro at the bombarding part. will watch all your videos, more than once, and see what questions i have then.
excellent! obviously i am merely an amateur hobbyist, but i will gladly answer questions you may have about my setup. the online community of neon professionals is very helpful as well!
It is interesting that you were able to find a dedicated transformer for this, I rigged up a utility distribution transformer I got hold of to be the bombarder. It's huge and stuffed somewhere in my garage. I think it was 8000 Volts with 240V input and I wired it up to an input transformer that put the output to 18K. At one time I had an electrical fault and an arc that looked like a jacobs ladder went across the table.
yikes! yeah these giant transformers must be treated with great caution.
i got all my neon equipment from a closed shop as a bundle.
@@NeonPreservation It is good that today we have the internet to see where stuff like this can be found. When I started it was so difficult to contact others, all we had was long distance phone calls and those could get expensive. When I tried to find the ribbon burner I gave up and ended up making my own homemade jet torch instead. If I ever mess with this stuff again I will look around to see if any old neon shop equipment is in storage somewhere. Most of the shops I remember have long gone out of business.
indeed. the internet can be a wealth of information! one of the reasons i started this channel was because i was looking for videos about neon equipment & neon sign restoration, but there wasn't much to be found. i decided to change that.
Wow. Just found this half way through building a full Daco system myself. Hands down the best most helpful pump build on the internet, ever imo. This video has been so valuable you have no idea. Our set ups are v similar, moving on to the manifold next, would love to see your part 3, need all the help I can get 😂
hey, I'm glad you liked the video! i have a Daco manifold i will be setting up as well. i am going to post an interim update in a couple days showing more work ive done on the setup... then i will move on to the vacuum system!
stay tuned, and good luck with yours!
Hey I just got hold of a 5KVA Daco system I am setting up. So the choke throttles down one of the 240, right? The other 240 passes through
Hey I can be reached at : edchair@protonmail.com
Let's share knowledge, I bent glass commercially for 15 years
correct, one side of the 240 goes through the choke and the other does not.
1:00 - why does bombarding requires massive electrical transformer of the kind we see out from our homes? I can make or buy the same transformer specification but the size will be like a football and heavy maybe 5 or less pounds. Its called Switch Mode Power Supply (SMPS), these are the future of "transformers" and will replace the analog transformers because they are extremely efficient and compact. If you're doing things old school ways... that's understandable.
two things are required while processing a neon tube: heating the tube to burn out impurities, and converting the coating on the electrode shells. generally, electrode manufacturers suggest a finishing current of around 10x the electrode's normal operating current (e.g., 600mA for a 60mA electrode), and a bombarding transformer is one way to heat the tube and process the electrodes at the same time.
other methods-like oven pumping with induction heating of electrodes-will also satisfy the requirements of processing, but are often more involved and require more space/equipment.
i am using the bombarder because i like the traditional style of doing things, and well... because i have it. haha.
i may some day attempt to construct a kiln to try my hand at some oven pumping, but until then i will continue to hone my skills on the bombarder.
@@NeonPreservation thank you for the reply.
Were you able to find any documentation in the transformer online? I've got almost the same one, but mine is strictly 220, and I have the choke. I have been given my uncle's neon plant, and I would like to get started in the process, but I want to be as safe as possible and find documentation to study first.
Great video, keep up the neon work!
my friend, the neon historian/archaeologist Robert Haus, sent me the PDF he scanned of a Sola product information brochure from 1955... if that's what you're looking for, send me an email at the address in my profile and i can forward it to you.
if instead you're just looking for general neon plant setup information, let me know in your email. i am not a professional, so i will not give you any "how-to" advice in regards to wiring/electrical stuff, but i can recommend some sources to can read so you can learn more information.
This is amazingly helpful. Thank you.
im glad it was helpful, thanks for watching!
Hello, very helpful video to show how to do this safely. , do you have drawings for all your electricals? Thank you. We bought an old GE bombarder and choke from a neon shop in Buffalo years ago. The guy just grabbed the 220 input wires and touched the mains, well a bright blue flash soon came out of the panel as the bomber turned on. We bought it as it was working! He did scare the heck out of us.
yikes, that would be rather dramatic (not to mention dangerous)!
as for my setup, the schematic i show in this video was drawn completely from memory. i spent hundreds of hours reading, studying, and learning about all the components to make sure i knew exactly how everything worked and how to assemble it safely.
What is that second transformer that you are using? The one that is hooked up before the "Daco" button and contactor. Is that used to step up or step down and what is the input and output of the transformer. Also what is the reason for it?
the small transformer in the Prewire Unit box transforms the input voltage to the voltage that the contactor uses. it has multiple primary wires so it can be used for a variety of input voltages. the Prewire Unit was sold preassembled as a kit from Daco, so they used a transformer that would supply the correct voltage for the contactor they used.
@@NeonPreservation So the contactor is basically another switch? And in order to use that switch it has a required voltage which is given by the transformer? I am trying to setup my own neon plant but there are no neon bombarders left so I have to use a pole pig that I will buy which uses 240v. I was going to wire 240v right to it with a switch, but what is the point of the contactor? Is it just a electrified safety switch?
a contactor is basically a relay that can handle high-current loads. this quick video might help: ruclips.net/video/gnasraApypo/видео.html
they are used to control the bombarder in a safer manner than say, a knife switch or whatever. the button on my setup provides power to the contactor, which closes the circuit to the bombarder... adding a degree of separation between the user and the bombarder.
the bombarder output is lethal and any mistakes will kill you. no second chances here, so be exceedingly careful. that schematic i show in this video i drew _from memory_ - thats how well i got to know the system before even attempting to set it up. do your homework and study everything. if you can, have an experienced neon bender safety-check your setup before using it.
@@NeonPreservation Got it! Thank you! That makes a lot of sense. An old friend of mine gave me all of his fires from his old neon shop he used to have but he sold all of the processing parts. Going to build on like you did. Thank you so much for you help and the videos that you make. They are super helpful. I want to keep the neon art alive like you do. Keep on making these great videos!
glad i could be of assistance. be safe and good luck!
Are you showing how to use this equipment safely or just how to set it up? I'm caught between appreciation for lowering walls of secrecy in the trade/ providing access and resources and then being a stickler for extremely thorough safety with this equipment in its operation and troubleshooting during processing.
i agree 100% that safety is paramount with bombarding, as i definitely would rather not end up dead.
this video is not a "how-to", but merely a video documentation of my personal journey on building this setup. i started with no knowledge of any of the equipment or how to set it up, and studied for hundreds of hours on how to do it correctly and safely. the schematic i showed was drawn completely from memory, which is how thoroughly i learned about every piece of equipment before even considering the setup. no doubt you noticed my redundant built-in safety features and safety precautions i have taken during the build. i also consulted with a professional if i had further questions during the setup.
i have a healthy fear of the bombarder and i remind people of its lethality when they ask me questions about it.
Hey like the guy above me said. Probably the most useful piece of information for pumping set up ever on the entire internet.. but whats the use of the `prewire unit transformer`?
hello, I'm glad you found the video informative. the "prewire unit" is just a preassembled neon-specific deadman switch & contactor assembly that was available from Daco:
web.archive.org/web/20070206115536/www.daconeon.com/products/bombarding.asp?page=4#pre-wired_safety_switch
the transformer inside the box converts the input voltage (in my case 240v) to the voltage required to activate the contactor solenoid.
@@NeonPreservation Gotcha. Just did a quick google search for prewire related units and unfortunately couldn't find anything. You wouldnt by any chance know where I could pick one up? also was anything else you used preassembled?
yeah, im not sure if anyone specifically makes "prewire units" anymore. the ones (like mine) that Daco used to sell were built by them with just a few readily available parts (contractor, transformer, and a spring-loaded momentary button) assembled in a couple junction boxes and connected with a piece of extension cord. they were sold as an easy "plug & play" kind of option if you didn't want to bother collecting the parts yourself.
occasionally neon processing equipment comes up on ebay or locally (e.g., FB marketplace or craigslist), or you can try asking around on some of the FB neon groups. the FB group "Neon And Plasma Art for Beginners" would be a decent place to start... there are professionals there who give advice to beginners and occasionally sell equipment as well.
Looking for a bombarder, where can i find one?
if you want to buy one new, EGL has them: www.egl-lighting.com/bombarders/
if you're looking for used neon equipment, it is rather scarce. you'll have to be patient and watch on craigslist, FB marketplace & ebay.
in lieu of a purpose-built bombarder, some people use a surplus step down pole mount distribution transformer (aka "pole pig") that is wired in reverse to step up the voltage instead.
@@NeonPreservation Thanks you so much ...great info!!!
Hey, great videos on neon man! Tis looks like quite a nice project. Could you you power the transformer with a regular household power output? Or do you need like a 3 phase power source? Greetings from Belgium.
thank you! here in the US the standard household wiring is 120v, and 240v is achieved by running two 120v lines that are out of phase with each other. so, to power this bombarding setup i have four wires from a 50amp circuit: 120v/120v/neutral/ground.
the power you would need would depend on what the bombarding transformer requires for a primary input.
Great video, exclent subject, but I thought I would let you know that those feed through insulator's that you used are rated for 600 volts, and the device that they come out of, would replace your bombardier transformer, and the device is almost always located at the top of a power pole, and it to is a transformer, and the power that is feeding your Neon bombarding setup has to pass through three of those feed through insulator's to even get to your house's main panel!!! Well that is unless you live in a naborhood that is feed through underground, and has pad mount transformer's instead, as those are a little deferent, because they are protected from the weather beneath a hood!
you're right! not long after making this video, i discovered those feed-through insulators are indeed the secondary insulators from a pole-mount transformer. some neon shops actually run surplus pole-mount transformers "backwards" to step the voltage back up for high voltage bombarding, as an alternative for a purpose-built neon bombarding transformer like i have.