@@Rytoc12 Conan wouldn't enter the talk show host game if it wasn't for David Letterman leaving NBC. Conan probably would be working as a writer on the Simpsons or anything else.
@@NHatemN he still would’ve. who ever didn’t get the TTS was probably gonna go to CBS. in this case Leno would’ve left the network. i do argue he wouldn’t have been as popular if he made the jump. i just don’t see him (Leno) agreeing to take on the Late Night franchise when he already did over 300 shows guesting hosting TTS
@@markjackson6431 that’s the way I see it Letterman takes over The Tonight Show. Leno would’ve went to CBS and Conan still would’ve come in for Late Night.
Letterman and Conan were able to share their talent while not hiding behind the comfort of NBC executives. They were always so versatile, absolutely my favourites.
The reason why Jay Leno's Tonight Show eventually beat Letterman from the summer of 1995 onward was that Jay was seen by many as a safe pair of hands. What they wanted at 11.35pm was to have easy comedy, calm, reassuring, the perfect hot milk and cookies of talk shows, and Leno proved he could deliver. Letterman was the cold beer of late night.
@@slapshot01j I noticed interviews with David in 1995 he was a bit rough to CBS, mocking their prime time line up etc. Loyalty to CBS started to slide then
@Gavin James It all depends on your mood at 11.35pm at night. Some are just exhausted from the day and want something easy to watch, whereas there are people who are not tired, and like the edgier material. Depends on your mood. For me, I am in the middle.
@Gavin James Larry King's show was superb, used to air in Los Angeles around 6pm when we got home. It was re-run at 9pm also. Letterman and Leno was a big deal in the 1990s and 2000s. I have to be honest, I chose Leno more often than Dave. I liked Headlines which Leno did, sometimes he got snips from English newspapers on it. Letterman was superb with Stupid Pet Tricks but you are right, I think he used to go to sleep during interviews. Leno used to do interviews a bit better, but Leno was king of the monologue. You could not fault his delivery. I have always found it strange that England never caught on to a nightly talk show. Maybe it was just a different culture, where in the states sleep does not matter much to us, whereas sleep might matter more to the English. It was common for people to end the night with Johnny Carson who until 1980 had his show on to 1am. Then bed time and be up again at 6am to watch the morning news on our local stations before heading out to work at 8am. One of the benefits of the states is we had a huge amount of stations to pick from, even in the 80s compared to the UK right?
I remember Chevy Show lasted like a month or less than a month which was hilarious, because the critic was right. Arsenio show was on CBS or FOX affiliates and still believe Chevy should of been on at midnight for those FOX affiliates. FOX always to be different from the big 3
Anybody interested in the late night tv battles of the 90's and 2009-2010 should read Bill Carter. He's an excellent- and un-biased- authority on the whole saga.
@Harvey Smith While late night has lost its relevance, there is still a ton to write about it. Bill Carter’s recent CNN special about the history of late night was excellent.
I heard an interview with Warren on Barry Katz 'Industry Standard' Podcast. I too was a HUGE Letterman fan from my mid-teens to early 20's when Letterman was a few years into his CBS stint. The big takeaway from LIttlefield was that Dave was asking/demanding some large percentage shares of things with lots of control as well. He figured NBC was able to save/earn close to $700,000,000-800,000,000 with the Leno deal vs the Letterman deal. This was obviously a recent interview I'm certain it was 2015 so he got to see it play out for basically a quarter century. Was I enraged when I heard Leno was to get the Tonight Show over Dave? Heck yeah. But as a businessman, I can see the Leno route was going to earn NBC hundreds of millions of dollars more, it's a no brainer.
@@Redhotlugnut Leno never owned his show. CBS doesn't own a second of the Letterman-era Late Show. Remember when Dave was able to come back early from the writer's strike? That was because he had so much control he could strike a separate peace with the WGA.
*@BCSouperfan:* Not getting picked to host "TTS" worked out better for Dave. *NBC* didn't treat Jay, Conan, or Dave very well, but *CBS* always looked out for Dave.
For our generation, we were all pro Conan. My mom liked Carson and Letterman but she always said she doesn't "get" Conan. And I always told her that everyone responded to Letterman very similarly. But peeps my age def watched repeat Conan on Comedy Central and he is overall our dude. I agree about Ferguson and I actually liked Craig Kilborn too
I love that this is from ABC-the one major network that lost out on this sweepstakes!! Not to mention they couldn’t get Letterman or Leno to leave, hence Jimmy Kimmel’s show.
Nightline with Koppel was a cash cow, too. And counterprogramming. It was the only thing that ever drew a number against Carson. ABC approached Letterman but he wasn't interested in being the guy who canceled Ted Koppel. And remember, Jimmy Kimmel Live! aired at midnight before Koppel retired.
Helen Kushnick. If the anecdotal evidence personal accounts and film (i.e., "The Late Shift") provide are to be believed, she was a scheming, conniving, often brutal businesswoman and was responsible for planting a story in the press which prematurely started the process of Johnny Carson's retirement from, and Jay Leno's ascendency into, the Tonight Show host slot.
@@leonardstilwell1894 Hit the nail on the head. Story goes also: She also got wind from NBC Senior Management back in late 1989, that they were worried that Arsenio Hall was going to take over as the late night king, because of the numbers he was putting up. What NBC execs didn't know was, Hall was pulling the so-called New Urban, Hip Hop culture audience , that 21 - 30 age group, that didn't see Carson as their cup of tea. Johnny has solid numbers with the 30 and over crowd. So Helen Kushnick, played on that, and that Johnny was going to retired. Now as everyone knows Johnny has a contract war with NBC through the 1970's, always threatening to leave the show. So it was looks at as, he wanted to leave. Carson didn't want to leave for at lease, rumor has it, 5 more years. What Johnny should of done was come out, as he did in 1979, and state on the show, "I have no plans on retiring in the near future, and then sat Jay Leno down one on one and told him right out, that if that bitch ever said anything like that again I will make sure you never sit here as my guess host ever again. Of course years later, Leno got rid of her for the crap she was pulling, and I think she die of cancer 10 years later.
@@paulandzik7190 I don't like what Helen did with the leaked story, but part of the reason the network went with Jay was because of Johnny's stubborn refusal to admit he was passed his prime. Had he left around year 25, *NBC* almost certainly would've chosen the by then well-established Dave Letterman to take over. But Johnny stayed on, taking frequent vacations, only doing 3 shows a week while relying on guest hosts to fill in. This allowed the audience to get accustomed to seeing Jay Leno sitting behind the desk, bringing in younger viewers with him. Dave didn't get along too well with *NBC* anyway, but Carson sure didn't help him out by staying till he was 67.
@@FIXTREME ABC wasn't really on board with the whole late night thing, so they missed their chance with Arsenio. Sometime in the 00's, ABC tried to court David Letterman to leave CBS.
It really is a shame Arsenio's show didn't last - especially due to Chevy Chase's absolute dud of a program. I read in Carter's book that he was offered a show on Fox after he killed as a guest host during its waning years but the network wouldn't give him executive producer rights to the show while Paramount did. Wise choice on his part but after Letterman made the move to CBS and Fox gave Chase his show, it was pretty much over for him.
that Jay Leno _ever_ out-rated David Letterman is unbearable to me. that Jay Leno, for decades, _consistently and thoroughly_ out-rated David Letterman is one of the hardest, most toxic, most HUMILIATINGLY lame facts about humanity. _oh, look. he's got a baseball glove rear-view mirror! ho ho ho. how hilarious. how WACKY. how utterly, utterly amusing._
Was it merely coincidental that Ted Koppel (the regular host, and thus by definition a competitor rather than an impartial observer) was not anchoring THIS particular edition?
Late Show with David Letterman would rule late night as the number one rated late night talk show from September 1993 until around April 1995, and then it all went down hill, after CBS lost football coverage and their prime time ratings for fall 1995 tanked. The July 1995 appearance of Hugh Grant on Leno proved to be the start of Leno's rise.
I have heard that Leno was a guy that studied ratings and ratings trends and worked very hard at being someone that could be accepted by both America's. " I knew that he would get all of the cool kids and the critics and we would go for the popular vote" - Jay Leno
he's a great stand up, and a not as great talk show host. i think he wouldve been funnier if he stuck with stand up and maybe did some specials, but he obviously did very well financially and with network execs, which may be even more important to him.
They seemed to at the time. Leno was a highly skilled stand up, Dave was a bit campy and juvenile in comparison. But as comedy talk show hosts go, Dave was the best.
5:13 Everyone makes fun (rightly so) of "The Chevy Chase Show," but a forgotten part of that show's legacy is its role in curtailing Arsenio's run. Sure, Letterman's new show did the most damage but Chevy sure as hell didn't help. Only five(ish) weeks and yet, by merely existing, he inadvertently slayed a show that had run successfully for four years to that point. 6:12 Really ironic given her hardball tactics on guests. The host pretty much seems to be alluding to what she did...and yet she's the one provided as saying "nah, guests aren't that important." 10:16 That tie... 11:05 Someone's still salty. They'd broadcast their last game nearly two months later, it's 2020 and CBS still hasn't gotten MLB back. 16:00 And despite this, ABC continually flirted with getting out of the "news at 11.35p" game until they finally gave in in 2013 with Kimmel. They aggressively pursued (and very nearly got) Letterman in 2002 and when Leno's first TS show run was winding down, they were hovering around him also. I think they were always keeping one eye to the future without Koppel and didn't think there'd be a successor to make it work in that timeslot. 24:06 No he won't... 24:50 Despite the widespread proliferation of cable options in late night TV, minorities are still not widely represented, and certainly not at the major networks.
Is there like a limit percentage that everything has to hit before we consider it represented? As someone who's seen various people of all shapes and sizes men and women white and not for 30 plus years..... I'm just curious as to what exactly equates to widely represented. And that being said any work is going to feature its majority audience because it's probably written by its majority audience. If it's not then they're probably going for multiple audiences at once.
@matthewrock4725 I don't know what widely represented is but I'm pretty certain it's not "all white guys on the network late night shows." The Tonight Show has always been hosted by a white guy. The Late Show has always been hosted by a white guy. ABC's late night option has always been a white guy. And so on. You have to get to the 1;30a "Later/Little Late" NBC block to see them breaking out of that mold. We had Desus & Mero on Showtime for a few years. That's something, I guess. I'm not bagging on any one particular host in the legacy lines, FWIW. But the stats bear out that if you're a late night host, you're probably a white guy. What good that will do in 2023 with the traditional concept of "late night" fading away, who knows? 🤷♂️
Stringer took over for the CBS execs who'd spent all that money on baseball (and then had to turn around and watch NBC make a mint on the much-cheaper NBA with Jordan after CBS had walked away from rights it had held through the late '70s when no one watched pro hoops). So I'm sure he was salty about what he'd inherited not what he did.
8:40 I really want to know what this commercial was all about and what the heck actually happened on September 9th involving a fork literally sticking up in the road, lol.
There was no Carson "empire" to speak of. As Jerry Seinfeld pointed out some years on, when he finally left (proximately caused by having his beloved show shifted from 23:30/22:30 to 23:35 eastern/22:35 central) he essentially took "Tonight" with him! Had Carson departed after 25 years, either Dave Letterman or Garry Shandling would most likely have succeeded (never replaced) him. His overstaying gave an opening to Arsenio (with his appeal to the urban and the under-30 demographics), which in turn led the suits at NBC to look to one James Muir Leno as their savior.
And respect from his peers. And reverence from both established and upcoming comedians and writers who cite him as an influence. And a post-Late Night career. Currently, Leno has a bunch of cars and a chin that is still more upsetting than Letterman's gold prospector beard.
@@JapaneseDenim I dunno'. Jay seems to have a lot of friends and admirers in the entertainment industry, too, and "Jay's Garage" has been running for years.
With VHS, it didn't matter what was on. Tape it and watch it at a better time. Tape Simpsons, watch Cosby. People taped the late shows. Scheduling became far less important.
I wish she asked Littlefield about Bill Carter saying they had thr best two hosts under one roof and couldn't keep them and Stringer about Carter saying they tried to get Leno then went for Letterman
Seems all so quaint now. Also that year at a ‘cutting edge’ art gallery I attended a demonstration of a new form of entertainment; virtual reality. Lol
Jimmy Fallon succeeded Jay Leno as host of NBC's "Tonight Show" in February of 2014-then-in May of 2015-Stephen Colbert succeeded David Letterman as host of the CBS "Late Show"; I prefer Jimmy Fallon.
This remains a fascinating subject to this day. Late night hosts each brought their own unique brand into American living rooms, even after the monarch stepped down (Carson, of course). My personal evolution with late night went from completely despising Letterman in the initial years to fully appreciating his irreverence and not taking himself nor the concept of late night comedy too seriously. As for Jay Leno, I thought the show/ joke writing was horribly misogynistic, completely stale and outdated, really out of touch, even for that time period- go back and listen to some of his monologues. It was insincere and actually quite atrocious. At the end of the day, as terribly imperfect as Letterman was, he had the better show format and was the better showman able to stand the test of time.
I'm a Dave guy. Dave had the critics and support of most of the comedians, but Jay had middle America. But in the end, Dave and Conan will live on forever on platforms like RUclips. No one will be watching Jay-Walking on RUclips in 25 years.
Once Jay Leno took over the tonight show Arsenio lost the hold on the younger viewers. Arsenio was getting his butt kicked enough when it was just Leno but then once David letterman signed with Cbs it was over
13:08 do they not understand that people can fall asleep with their TVs still on?…. the talk shows can be playing in their bedrooms while they already fell asleep 🤦🏻♂️ lol…..and that happens with alot of people
If hall moved to ABC even after Nightline they would respond to NBC and CBS’s successful bids for talk show hosts but I didn’t, Maher and Kimmel have some degrees
There was no way ABC was going to cancel Ted Koppel. They didn't even move Kimmel to 11:30 until like seven years after Koppel retired. ABC also made a couple of runs at Letterman when he was at CBS.
They claimed Leno started to win only because of the NBC primetime schedule but whenCBS started having better primetime shows leno still kicked lettermans but
That's true. Jay didn't need a big prime time lead-in to win in late night. To his credit, Dave said himself that the audience just seemed to prefer Jay over him.
Looks like overall NBC made the right choice. Dave had a huge high that slowly wore off even before 1995. By 1994 It was getting real close. Much like anything, this was a marathon and not a sprint. Jay changed course and created more of a comedy club format with the studio instead of trying to have Low Rent Johnny Carson show and it worked. Play to what you are good at. Letterman flamed out after 1996 and slowly after a while stopped caring so much. Comedy is a matter of taste. As far as who was watching in the Demo and viewership, Jay brought in more ad dollars. But Letterman to his credit got a brand established at CBS they never had period up until that point.
*NBC* going with Jay was the best thing that could've happened for Dave Letterman's career. After all, he didn't get along with the network anyway, and if he'd brought in year after year of the kind of second place ratings he scored over at CBS, it would've been Dave instead of Jay getting sacked in favour of a younger host- and a lot sooner, too. *CBS* gave him a home, didn't can him over that sex scandal, and despite his lesser ratings they allowed Dave to outlast Jay. Going to *CBS* worked out far better for Dave than staying with *NBC* likely would have.
@@gallery7596 Yes I can't argue with you there. Dave would have likely done the same thing as he did on CBS and would have likely went to second place in a few years and that would have set NBC on edge. CBS, on the other hand, never had a late night franchise and was vastly more forgiving of the ratings than NBC ever has. I often wonder what will happen now since the Tonight Show, now, is losing in the overall ratings and often times even in the Demo
@@PokeyBessie A D presidency next year may yet turn out to be the saving grace for Fallon, whereas continued "Trumplican" reign is likely to be good-to--great news for Colbert - who has demonstrated that he is a much more openly harsh on-air critic of the current WH occupant 😎
I think the fact that NBC “picked” Jay over Dave had a big impact on the general publics perception of who they should watch... like “oh he’s the dude they passed over, jay is probably better” and tbh that’s enough for the mob to go with one person 🤷🏻♂️
The NBC Executive that Cokie Roberts kept dunking on looks like someone who enjoys the comedy of Jay Leno. "Looks like they enjoy Jay Leno" is the worst thing I can say about a person.
How much longer was he going to stay on the job if he didn’t retire in 1992? The day was going to come eventually, and if it didn’t come then, it would have by now. What I still don’t understand is why NBC waited as long as they did with Joan Rivers’ contract. Were they intending to just let her get away to another network, which happened anyway and sent this chain of events in motion? Garry Shandling did a sitcom on Fox around the same time, and I don’t remember Johnny Carson, holding it against him, nor his HBO sitcom where he played the host of a fictional late night talk show. In the case of the latter, it was likely Jeffrey Tambor doing the “holding against.” But it still took Garry out of consideration as Johnny’s replacement.
Why did they make every female newscaster wear that hairstyle back then? It’s like the moment Bill and Hillary moved into the White House, that look became the standard female journalist haircut. Except for Connie Chung. That must be why CBS fired her.
to this day i will never understand why they chose leno for the tonight show. did he have some dirt on someone? did he attend some wild part with nbc execs? it makes no sense why nbc chose some random comedian who hadnt been hosting a late night show. the whole thing seems shocking still. i coulda seen if it was a huge name comedian at that time like eddie murphy, or howie mandell. but jay leno? i think everyone was shocked
It's not entirely accurate to call Leno random. He'd been TTS permanent guest host for several years and as early as 1989, whenever there was speculation on who would succeed Johnny if he ever retired, Leno's name was always in the mix.
In an alternate timeline, David Letterman succeeded Carson on the Tonight Show, then Conan succeeded Letterman on Late Night.
Then Conan would *fully* takeover the Tonight Show.
Jay Leno would get the Late Show, then.
@@Rytoc12 Conan wouldn't enter the talk show host game if it wasn't for David Letterman leaving NBC. Conan probably would be working as a writer on the Simpsons or anything else.
@@NHatemN he still would’ve. who ever didn’t get the TTS was probably gonna go to CBS. in this case Leno would’ve left the network. i do argue he wouldn’t have been as popular if he made the jump. i just don’t see him (Leno) agreeing to take on the Late Night franchise when he already did over 300 shows guesting hosting TTS
@@markjackson6431 that’s the way I see it Letterman takes over The Tonight Show. Leno would’ve went to CBS and Conan still would’ve come in for Late Night.
never forget for lettermans last episode, conan asked his viewers during the monologue to change the channel and watch lettermans final show.
Letterman and Conan were able to share their talent while not hiding behind the comfort of NBC executives. They were always so versatile, absolutely my favourites.
Letterman and Conan - kings of late night.
100% so entertaining!
"chevy chase is gonna give us a run for our money" 😂😂
Timothy Mills b
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I mean he was the biggest star of them all at that time
The reason why Jay Leno's Tonight Show eventually beat Letterman from the summer of 1995 onward was that Jay was seen by many as a safe pair of hands. What they wanted at 11.35pm was to have easy comedy, calm, reassuring, the perfect hot milk and cookies of talk shows, and Leno proved he could deliver. Letterman was the cold beer of late night.
@@slapshot01j I noticed interviews with David in 1995 he was a bit rough to CBS, mocking their prime time line up etc. Loyalty to CBS started to slide then
@Gavin James It all depends on your mood at 11.35pm at night. Some are just exhausted from the day and want something easy to watch, whereas there are people who are not tired, and like the edgier material. Depends on your mood. For me, I am in the middle.
@Gavin James You saw Letterman on satellite? I had no idea Letterman aired in England.
@Gavin James Larry King's show was superb, used to air in Los Angeles around 6pm when we got home. It was re-run at 9pm also. Letterman and Leno was a big deal in the 1990s and 2000s. I have to be honest, I chose Leno more often than Dave. I liked Headlines which Leno did, sometimes he got snips from English newspapers on it. Letterman was superb with Stupid Pet Tricks but you are right, I think he used to go to sleep during interviews. Leno used to do interviews a bit better, but Leno was king of the monologue. You could not fault his delivery. I have always found it strange that England never caught on to a nightly talk show. Maybe it was just a different culture, where in the states sleep does not matter much to us, whereas sleep might matter more to the English. It was common for people to end the night with Johnny Carson who until 1980 had his show on to 1am. Then bed time and be up again at 6am to watch the morning news on our local stations before heading out to work at 8am. One of the benefits of the states is we had a huge amount of stations to pick from, even in the 80s compared to the UK right?
@Mourning Star I think Letterman became safe as he got older.
What's funny is there talking about Chevy Chase like he was a real threat.
Well to be honest I am sure they didn't know it would not last as he was a huge star. Movie stars don't make the best hosts. We learned that later.
@Mourning Star I was referring to Chevy Chase as was this question. I know David Letterman throwing the pencil seemed lame but he made it work.
@Mourning Star Gotcha. I never seen the show. But I have David Letterman. I was young when Chevy had his show and didn't watch late night tv.
@Mourning Star I think I was 10 then.
I remember Chevy Show lasted like a month or less than a month which was hilarious, because the critic was right. Arsenio show was on CBS or FOX affiliates and still believe Chevy should of been on at midnight for those FOX affiliates. FOX always to be different from the big 3
Anybody interested in the late night tv battles of the 90's and 2009-2010 should read Bill Carter. He's an excellent- and un-biased- authority on the whole saga.
True. Wish he would ditch the politics and go back to writing about late night.
@Harvey Smith While late night has lost its relevance, there is still a ton to write about it. Bill Carter’s recent CNN special about the history of late night was excellent.
The Late Shift movie and book too
@@joshualebowitzI didn't even know he had such a special. What was it called ? I'd love to watch it.
@@mikekillagreen9432Plus the War for Late Night (his sequel to The Late Shift, about the Conan-Leno saga).
I miss how stiff and dull the news used to be
Back then you watched the news to learn about factual events... now it's just propaganda for leftwing or rightwing politics
Warren littlefield fucked up by not picking Letterman, but he simultaneously struck gold with Conan, and Conan was a massive risk at the time
I heard an interview with Warren on Barry Katz 'Industry Standard' Podcast. I too was a HUGE Letterman fan from my mid-teens to early 20's when Letterman was a few years into his CBS stint.
The big takeaway from LIttlefield was that Dave was asking/demanding some large percentage shares of things with lots of control as well. He figured NBC was able to save/earn close to $700,000,000-800,000,000 with the Leno deal vs the Letterman deal. This was obviously a recent interview I'm certain it was 2015 so he got to see it play out for basically a quarter century.
Was I enraged when I heard Leno was to get the Tonight Show over Dave? Heck yeah. But as a businessman, I can see the Leno route was going to earn NBC hundreds of millions of dollars more, it's a no brainer.
@@Redhotlugnut Leno never owned his show. CBS doesn't own a second of the Letterman-era Late Show. Remember when Dave was able to come back early from the writer's strike? That was because he had so much control he could strike a separate peace with the WGA.
*@BCSouperfan:* Not getting picked to host "TTS" worked out better for Dave. *NBC* didn't treat Jay, Conan, or Dave very well, but *CBS* always looked out for Dave.
The picture of Jay behind Warren Littlefield … HA!
Is that real it almost seems fake
I consistently watched Letterman then flipped to Conan... Until Ferguson started lol that show was amazing
I feel if I had been alive that i would have been the same way lol.
Ferguson was fantastic
How old are u ?
For our generation, we were all pro Conan. My mom liked Carson and Letterman but she always said she doesn't "get" Conan. And I always told her that everyone responded to Letterman very similarly. But peeps my age def watched repeat Conan on Comedy Central and he is overall our dude. I agree about Ferguson and I actually liked Craig Kilborn too
same. i watched letterman and conan. letterman is an institution. conan shoulda just gotten lettermans spot or lenos spot when he left tbs
I was too young to be a veteran of the late night wars but I was wounded in the console wars.
Am I the only one who thinks the commercials are a great anthropological resource?
They show who is really pulling the strings behind the scenes.
I love that this is from ABC-the one major network that lost out on this sweepstakes!!
Not to mention they couldn’t get Letterman or Leno to leave, hence Jimmy Kimmel’s show.
Except for that period when they very briefly had Bill Maher until he moved to HBO.
Nightline with Koppel was a cash cow, too. And counterprogramming. It was the only thing that ever drew a number against Carson. ABC approached Letterman but he wasn't interested in being the guy who canceled Ted Koppel. And remember, Jimmy Kimmel Live! aired at midnight before Koppel retired.
Letterman did not take over for Carson, but he turned out just fine. CBS became a serious player in late night TV.
It's kind of funny how the earnest-vs.-edgy dynamic lives on in Fallon and Colbert, too.
Dave getting passed up for The Tonight Show really worked out for Dave in the end.
The wicked witch herself at 6:24
Who is she?
Helen Kushnick. If the anecdotal evidence personal accounts and film (i.e., "The Late Shift") provide are to be believed, she was a scheming, conniving, often brutal businesswoman and was responsible for planting a story in the press which prematurely started the process of Johnny Carson's retirement from, and Jay Leno's ascendency into, the Tonight Show host slot.
@@leonardstilwell1894 Hit the nail on the head. Story goes also: She also got wind from NBC Senior Management back in late 1989, that they were worried that Arsenio Hall was going to take over as the late night king, because of the numbers he was putting up. What NBC execs didn't know was, Hall was pulling the so-called New Urban, Hip Hop culture audience , that 21 - 30 age group, that didn't see Carson as their cup of tea. Johnny has solid numbers with the 30 and over crowd. So Helen Kushnick, played on that, and that Johnny was going to retired. Now as everyone knows Johnny has a contract war with NBC through the 1970's, always threatening to leave the show. So it was looks at as, he wanted to leave. Carson didn't want to leave for at lease, rumor has it, 5 more years. What Johnny should of done was come out, as he did in 1979, and state on the show, "I have no plans on retiring in the near future, and then sat Jay Leno down one on one and told him right out, that if that bitch ever said anything like that again I will make sure you never sit here as my guess host ever again. Of course years later, Leno got rid of her for the crap she was pulling, and I think she die of cancer 10 years later.
@@paulandzik7190 I don't like what Helen did with the leaked story, but part of the reason the network went with Jay was because of Johnny's stubborn refusal to admit he was passed his prime. Had he left around year 25, *NBC* almost certainly would've chosen the by then well-established Dave Letterman to take over. But Johnny stayed on, taking frequent vacations, only doing 3 shows a week while relying on guest hosts to fill in. This allowed the audience to get accustomed to seeing Jay Leno sitting behind the desk, bringing in younger viewers with him. Dave didn't get along too well with *NBC* anyway, but Carson sure didn't help him out by staying till he was 67.
Absolutely. Watch the late shift and you will see how much of a bitch she was,
Look at how they trashed Arsenio Hall even though for the first quarter he premiered, he garnered way more views than Leno did.
To be fair, 2/3 of Arsenio's station lineup got swept up from under him. I'm surprised ABC didn't consider signing him
@@FIXTREME ABC wasn't really on board with the whole late night thing, so they missed their chance with Arsenio. Sometime in the 00's, ABC tried to court David Letterman to leave CBS.
Arsenio never been Leno in the ratings
Look at the demographic makeup of who made the decisions, and you’ll find your answer.
It really is a shame Arsenio's show didn't last - especially due to Chevy Chase's absolute dud of a program. I read in Carter's book that he was offered a show on Fox after he killed as a guest host during its waning years but the network wouldn't give him executive producer rights to the show while Paramount did. Wise choice on his part but after Letterman made the move to CBS and Fox gave Chase his show, it was pretty much over for him.
Thanks for uploading!
that Jay Leno _ever_ out-rated David Letterman is unbearable to me.
that Jay Leno, for decades, _consistently and thoroughly_ out-rated David Letterman is one of the hardest, most toxic, most HUMILIATINGLY lame facts about humanity.
_oh, look. he's got a baseball glove rear-view mirror! ho ho ho. how hilarious. how WACKY. how utterly, utterly amusing._
You’re MATI, bro. Don’t be.
Was it merely coincidental that Ted Koppel (the regular host, and thus by definition a competitor rather than an impartial observer) was not anchoring THIS particular edition?
I can see how good Kathy Bates was portraying Helen Kushnik in “The Late Shift”, and of course Bob Balaban nailed Warren Littlefield
And, Bob Balaban portrayed a fictional version of the head of NBC, I'm guessing a few years before The Late Shift movie, when he was on Seinfeld.
😂 those commercials...lol
💕RIP COKIE ROBERTS💕
Late Show with David Letterman would rule late night as the number one rated late night talk show from September 1993 until around April 1995, and then it all went down hill, after CBS lost football coverage and their prime time ratings for fall 1995 tanked. The July 1995 appearance of Hugh Grant on Leno proved to be the start of Leno's rise.
Also Leno was more willing to make fun of Bill Clinton then letterman. Also leno's OJ jokes were better then Letterman's.
I have heard that Leno was a guy that studied ratings and ratings trends and worked very hard at being someone that could be accepted by both America's.
" I knew that he would get all of the cool kids and the critics and we would go for the popular vote" - Jay Leno
He was in Los Angeles, so for him, it was local news.
I never understood how anyone thought Jay Leno was funny.
Personal taste. Carson and Letterman both thought Jay was funny.
Leno the club comic was much edgier than Leno the Tonight Show host.
@@andrewtorres765 Yup, that's what they say, and Letterman was never half the stand up Jay was.
he's a great stand up, and a not as great talk show host. i think he wouldve been funnier if he stuck with stand up and maybe did some specials, but he obviously did very well financially and with network execs, which may be even more important to him.
They seemed to at the time. Leno was a highly skilled stand up, Dave was a bit campy and juvenile in comparison. But as comedy talk show hosts go, Dave was the best.
It's insane I was never given my own talk show at this time to compete.
I mean I was only 10 but still.
5:13 Everyone makes fun (rightly so) of "The Chevy Chase Show," but a forgotten part of that show's legacy is its role in curtailing Arsenio's run. Sure, Letterman's new show did the most damage but Chevy sure as hell didn't help. Only five(ish) weeks and yet, by merely existing, he inadvertently slayed a show that had run successfully for four years to that point.
6:12 Really ironic given her hardball tactics on guests. The host pretty much seems to be alluding to what she did...and yet she's the one provided as saying "nah, guests aren't that important."
10:16 That tie...
11:05 Someone's still salty. They'd broadcast their last game nearly two months later, it's 2020 and CBS still hasn't gotten MLB back.
16:00 And despite this, ABC continually flirted with getting out of the "news at 11.35p" game until they finally gave in in 2013 with Kimmel. They aggressively pursued (and very nearly got) Letterman in 2002 and when Leno's first TS show run was winding down, they were hovering around him also. I think they were always keeping one eye to the future without Koppel and didn't think there'd be a successor to make it work in that timeslot.
24:06 No he won't...
24:50 Despite the widespread proliferation of cable options in late night TV, minorities are still not widely represented, and certainly not at the major networks.
Is there like a limit percentage that everything has to hit before we consider it represented? As someone who's seen various people of all shapes and sizes men and women white and not for 30 plus years..... I'm just curious as to what exactly equates to widely represented. And that being said any work is going to feature its majority audience because it's probably written by its majority audience. If it's not then they're probably going for multiple audiences at once.
@matthewrock4725 I don't know what widely represented is but I'm pretty certain it's not "all white guys on the network late night shows." The Tonight Show has always been hosted by a white guy. The Late Show has always been hosted by a white guy. ABC's late night option has always been a white guy. And so on. You have to get to the 1;30a "Later/Little Late" NBC block to see them breaking out of that mold. We had Desus & Mero on Showtime for a few years. That's something, I guess.
I'm not bagging on any one particular host in the legacy lines, FWIW. But the stats bear out that if you're a late night host, you're probably a white guy. What good that will do in 2023 with the traditional concept of "late night" fading away, who knows? 🤷♂️
Lol I’d assume representation isn’t nearly all straight white men 😂
Stringer took over for the CBS execs who'd spent all that money on baseball (and then had to turn around and watch NBC make a mint on the much-cheaper NBA with Jordan after CBS had walked away from rights it had held through the late '70s when no one watched pro hoops). So I'm sure he was salty about what he'd inherited not what he did.
Warren Littlefield couldn't look like more of a network tool if he tried.
He's done some interviews about that time period; he's a tool in those, too.
There is a wonderful scene in the movie *the late shift* where Helen Kushnick chews him out.
He looks more like Bob Balaban's kid brother than Bob Balaban (who played him in 'The Late Shift' and played his analogue NBC exec on 'Seinfeld').
I didn't get to see all of these things and I still haven't seen the movie night shift or whatever it's called dealing with these issues
8:40 I really want to know what this commercial was all about and what the heck actually happened on September 9th involving a fork literally sticking up in the road, lol.
As a viewer from the uk i always liked Letterman better
After "Arsenio's" premiere, CBS made an offer to buy into "Arsenio." It had network distribution. Paramount said "no thanks."
There was no Carson "empire" to speak of. As Jerry Seinfeld pointed out some years on, when he finally left (proximately caused by having his beloved show shifted from 23:30/22:30 to 23:35 eastern/22:35 central) he essentially took "Tonight" with him!
Had Carson departed after 25 years, either Dave Letterman or Garry Shandling would most likely have succeeded (never replaced) him. His overstaying gave an opening to Arsenio (with his appeal to the urban and the under-30 demographics), which in turn led the suits at NBC to look to one James Muir Leno as their savior.
An episode of Documentary Now! based on this episode of Nightline would be amazing.
Great idea! I would love to see Bill and Fred as feuding late night hosts.
Leno had more viewers than Letterman but it was a lowest common denominator show
Letterman had quality
And respect from his peers. And reverence from both established and upcoming comedians and writers who cite him as an influence. And a post-Late Night career.
Currently, Leno has a bunch of cars and a chin that is still more upsetting than Letterman's gold prospector beard.
@@JapaneseDenim I dunno'. Jay seems to have a lot of friends and admirers in the entertainment industry, too, and "Jay's Garage" has been running for years.
It's a matter of opinion. My opinion is Jay is a better stand up and could give a funnier monologue but dave was a better interviewer.
@@stevecochrane8799 Yes, and to their credit, Dave and Jay have voiced the same appraisal of each other.
@@stevecochrane8799 I think Jay is a decent entertainer and host, but Dave is a wayyyyyyyy better comedian
Look at it today. Who is missed? I would like to say Letterman, Conan and Leno. In that order.
Littlefield was such a little weasel
He looks like he should’ve been hunting for chickens on the “and Friends” part of *Garfield and Friends.*
but he wasn't one the who fired Norm MacDonald, that was OJ Simpson's BFF
With VHS, it didn't matter what was on. Tape it and watch it at a better time. Tape Simpsons, watch Cosby. People taped the late shows. Scheduling became far less important.
I wish she asked Littlefield about Bill Carter saying they had thr best two hosts under one roof and couldn't keep them and Stringer about Carter saying they tried to get Leno then went for Letterman
Seems all so quaint now. Also that year at a ‘cutting edge’ art gallery I attended a demonstration of a new form of entertainment; virtual reality. Lol
“SERVICE! and ya get it.”
I think Donahue was reading cue cards...
21:33 I'm excited too. He's a nice looking boy.
It's too bad Chevy Chase and Magic Johnson aren't listed in the late-night Wars
If you thought the late night talk show war was something, you should have seen the daytime talk show war.
Jimmy Fallon succeeded Jay Leno as host of NBC's "Tonight Show" in February of 2014-then-in May of 2015-Stephen Colbert succeeded David Letterman as host of the CBS "Late Show"; I prefer Jimmy Fallon.
they're both cringe af
And the saga continues…. but I love Colbert AND Fallon, each for completely different reasons.
Warren Littlefield always seemed like a weasel to me. LOL.
This remains a fascinating subject to this day. Late night hosts each brought their own unique brand into American living rooms, even after the monarch stepped down (Carson, of course). My personal evolution with late night went from completely despising Letterman in the initial years to fully appreciating his irreverence and not taking himself nor the concept of late night comedy too seriously. As for Jay Leno, I thought the show/ joke writing was horribly misogynistic, completely stale and outdated, really out of touch, even for that time period- go back and listen to some of his monologues. It was insincere and actually quite atrocious. At the end of the day, as terribly imperfect as Letterman was, he had the better show format and was the better showman able to stand the test of time.
It’s funny to hear them say Chevy chases show was gonna “give them a run for their money” when that show crashed and failed so badly
America settled on Leno because he was just easier to fall asleep to.
"chevy is going to give us a run for our money" awee bless your heart.
Like the guy who came in last in the Boston marathon.
Jay who?
Letterman and Conan were never the ratings draw Jay Leno was. I never understood why.
I'm a Dave guy. Dave had the critics and support of most of the comedians, but Jay had middle America. But in the end, Dave and Conan will live on forever on platforms like RUclips. No one will be watching Jay-Walking on RUclips in 25 years.
@@richardyoon4209 Absolutely, I enjoy watching old Letterman and Conan clips on RUclips all the time.
I wish Arsenio Hall Show lasted longer.
Once Jay Leno took over the tonight show Arsenio lost the hold on the younger viewers. Arsenio was getting his butt kicked enough when it was just Leno but then once David letterman signed with Cbs it was over
Call me crazy but I think that Conan kid is gonna outlast Chevy Chase.
Guess what? Nobody won.
That's kinda true. Dave and Jay both won, and lost, in different ways.
13:08 do they not understand that people can fall asleep with their TVs still on?…. the talk shows can be playing in their bedrooms while they already fell asleep 🤦🏻♂️ lol…..and that happens with alot of people
If hall moved to ABC even after Nightline they would respond to NBC and CBS’s successful bids for talk show hosts but I didn’t, Maher and Kimmel have some degrees
There was no way ABC was going to cancel Ted Koppel. They didn't even move Kimmel to 11:30 until like seven years after Koppel retired. ABC also made a couple of runs at Letterman when he was at CBS.
5:04 LOL Conan O'Brien, a comedy writer tries to try to fill Letterman's old slot on NBC. I wonder how that panned out...
Better than Chevy Chase.
@@Attmay Chevy _what?_ I never heard of that truck
Everyone's talking about Chevy Chase like it's a slam dunk -- Chevy lasted for six weeks and Conan for a cumulative 27 years.
I liked Leno. He wasn't political, whereas Letterman was obviously a Democrat.
00:29 I was wondering whatever became of Bernard Goetz.
They claimed Leno started to win only because of the NBC primetime schedule but whenCBS started having better primetime shows leno still kicked lettermans but
That's true. Jay didn't need a big prime time lead-in to win in late night. To his credit, Dave said himself that the audience just seemed to prefer Jay over him.
Letterman always tried to pander to a "specific audience" while Leno went for everyone - the middlemen.
@@MrGSfan Leno did generic humor that anyone could get. Dave is quirky and a little less accessible(funnier IMO).
So littlefield chose Leno because he 's new and needed to make his mark.
He was the "safe" choice. No sarcasm, no edge, bland humor that appeals to the lowest common denominator.
I have trouble mustering up anger over this considering every other piece of shit show he made his mark with on NBC.
Looks like overall NBC made the right choice. Dave had a huge high that slowly wore off even before 1995. By 1994 It was getting real close. Much like anything, this was a marathon and not a sprint. Jay changed course and created more of a comedy club format with the studio instead of trying to have Low Rent Johnny Carson show and it worked. Play to what you are good at. Letterman flamed out after 1996 and slowly after a while stopped caring so much. Comedy is a matter of taste. As far as who was watching in the Demo and viewership, Jay brought in more ad dollars. But Letterman to his credit got a brand established at CBS they never had period up until that point.
*NBC* going with Jay was the best thing that could've happened for Dave Letterman's career. After all, he didn't get along with the network anyway, and if he'd brought in year after year of the kind of second place ratings he scored over at CBS, it would've been Dave instead of Jay getting sacked in favour of a younger host- and a lot sooner, too. *CBS* gave him a home, didn't can him over that sex scandal, and despite his lesser ratings they allowed Dave to outlast Jay. Going to *CBS* worked out far better for Dave than staying with *NBC* likely would have.
@@gallery7596 Yes I can't argue with you there. Dave would have likely done the same thing as he did on CBS and would have likely went to second place in a few years and that would have set NBC on edge. CBS, on the other hand, never had a late night franchise and was vastly more forgiving of the ratings than NBC ever has. I often wonder what will happen now since the Tonight Show, now, is losing in the overall ratings and often times even in the Demo
@@PokeyBessie A D presidency next year may yet turn out to be the saving grace for Fallon, whereas continued "Trumplican" reign is likely to be good-to--great news for Colbert - who has demonstrated that he is a much more openly harsh on-air critic of the current WH occupant 😎
I think the fact that NBC “picked” Jay over Dave had a big impact on the general publics perception of who they should watch... like “oh he’s the dude they passed over, jay is probably better” and tbh that’s enough for the mob to go with one person 🤷🏻♂️
The NBC Executive that Cokie Roberts kept dunking on looks like someone who enjoys the comedy of Jay Leno.
"Looks like they enjoy Jay Leno" is the worst thing I can say about a person.
He looks like the villain in a Mel Brooks movie.
See what Johnny Carson ignited?
How much longer was he going to stay on the job if he didn’t retire in 1992? The day was going to come eventually, and if it didn’t come then, it would have by now.
What I still don’t understand is why NBC waited as long as they did with Joan Rivers’ contract. Were they intending to just let her get away to another network, which happened anyway and sent this chain of events in motion?
Garry Shandling did a sitcom on Fox around the same time, and I don’t remember Johnny Carson, holding it against him, nor his HBO sitcom where he played the host of a fictional late night talk show. In the case of the latter, it was likely Jeffrey Tambor doing the “holding against.” But it still took Garry out of consideration as Johnny’s replacement.
Wow young Katie couric didn’t recognize for a while
"Katie" had more hair back then.
Why did they make every female newscaster wear that hairstyle back then? It’s like the moment Bill and Hillary moved into the White House, that look became the standard female journalist haircut.
Except for Connie Chung. That must be why CBS fired her.
Arsenio was a good show but maybe to early for viewers.
Why not abc late night in the 1990s
You're looking at the reason. Nightline which aired at 11:30pm and had a big audience.
Lo q sucedio en esa epoca es lo q sucede actualmente"
Nadie recordara a lenon como a fallon y todos hablaran de letterman,conan
Leno is underrated.
2:57 Jim Cornette
Does ANYONE like jay leno????
Cokie?
FUN FACT: Letterman has always been funnier. Now here's the fun part, I wasted your time with my very general and unsolicited opinion. Thank you!
Chevy chase is the best host of television. Better then Johnny Carson. Chevy chase was such a great host the fact that his show got cancelled.
life costs time wasted or not so meh
I’m going to be the legit odd duck out, but I liked Leno quite a bit.
My parents took me to a few different countries before 9/11, and it was not uncommon to see his monologues on international flights.
10:22 gerrit cole
Leno's Tonight Show began horribly but got much better with time. Dave just got more bitter and his show more lazy and less creative year after year.
well at the end, is 2023 and david, conan are funnier than ever, meanwhile lenno is just a past tv thing
Leno will be the Salieri of Late Night hosts and Dave will be the Mozart.
Conan and Letterman cried and cried but not Arsenio and George Lopez. Weaklings versus men, I suppose.
Are you seriously putting George Lopez in the same ranks as Dave, Jay and Arsenio? LOL. (And yeah, Arsenio did complain when he got canceled.)
to this day i will never understand why they chose leno for the tonight show. did he have some dirt on someone? did he attend some wild part with nbc execs? it makes no sense why nbc chose some random comedian who hadnt been hosting a late night show. the whole thing seems shocking still. i coulda seen if it was a huge name comedian at that time like eddie murphy, or howie mandell. but jay leno? i think everyone was shocked
It's not entirely accurate to call Leno random. He'd been TTS permanent guest host for several years and as early as 1989, whenever there was speculation on who would succeed Johnny if he ever retired, Leno's name was always in the mix.
I’m sure lots of people had dirt on certain figures at NBC considering how much covering up for Bill Cosby and Matt Lauer they did.
6.060v
jay leno was the best.
The unwieldy hyena preferentially repair because tempo laparoscopically happen round a mean seagull. illustrious, lamentable silver
I'll take what she's having, please.