Religion in Games - I: Mechanics, Lore, and Heart - Extra Credits
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- Опубликовано: 28 дек 2012
- Even if a player doesn't personally believe in a religious faith or tradition, using religious figures and tropes in gameplay can enhance a game's narrative mythos.
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(Original air date: December 12, 2012)
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♪ Intro Music: "Penguin Cap" by CarboHydroM
bit.ly/1eIHTDS
♪ Outro Music: "Hymn of Aveh" by katethegreat19
ocremix.org/remix/OCR02057/ 
Игры
I see the Cerberus and I keep thinking to myself,
"Why the hell does the Egg Cerberus in Sonic 06 only have one head?"
Then I realize,
"Sonic 06 is terrible".
This is a Public Service Announcement: Please don't scroll down to the comments. If you do, don't say I didn't warn you.
Aw... I was hoping to have an engaging, open-minded conversation with some one... darn...
thank you, you saved me from chains of ignorance and bigotry
Too late, you're like 5 comments down and two of them were incredibly stupid and bigoted. =(
thanx
HalfTangible Now he's the second comment down, right under some under some twat who thinks he's funny because he can insult other people's beliefs.
My favorite depiction of religion is the Thief series. The Hammerites (based on Catholicism) and the Pagans (based on Wiccan) are both fanatical, each faction trying to destroy the city at one point. Then again, they both have good sides, good heroes, and a lighter side. It's a really complex depiction, one that I consider fair
Is that anywhere in the most recent Thief title? because I haven't found it and I'm feeling a little jipped.
Alex Parker Roommate picked up that game after our suite loved Human Revolution. It's...disappointing.. The Baron eliminates ALL religion in an effort to push a technological progress. Orion, leader of the Graven rebel movement, represents religion vaguely. That's it. That's literally how deep it goes. Just like everything else in that trashy, ugly mess of a game, it was incomplete in the final product.
Lol, were the hammerites keen on durable rust proof finishes?
the compulsion to use ancient mythos comes down to one simple thing, they are good characters that are not copy righted, so its free to steal their identities without getting marked for plagerism
I'm sueing you in the name of Zeus! - Said no one never.
Except for Scientology. If you use their mythos, they will sue your ass into nonexistence.
@@ZeldagigafanMatthew ooh shit, you just game someone an idea (that may or may not kill them).
Tru fat
*dat
*For the Owner so loved the server, that he gave his only begotten Admin, that whosoever believeth in him should not be banned, but have everlasting premium.*
I should be insulted about this. But darn it, this is hilarious and creative. Gosh my sides.
+Franklin Falco Dude , made my day thnx!
+NerdofCAO I'm not offended. Both these jokes are actually quite accurate.
Praise The Night Mother.
you sir are gold!
I'm going to watch every single video they ever made.
good freaking luck...
enamis1 i'm half way
OOH a EC marathon better grab some snacks and water your going to need'em.
Fafnd OOH? what's/who's that?
Just me going "cool"
Have you played Dark Souls?
Faith is OP
30 faith=Sunlight Blade=The End
But miracle builds are garbage!
KusoNeko the sun can’t be praised enough, that’s why they are making a remaster
With the amiibo, you too can PRAISE THE SUN, whenever you want!
...wait, what?
faith is for the transient people
I think Hades is a good example of popular culture missing the mark with religion from a narrative and lore stand point. People are quick to forget that Hades was considered the richest of all the gods as all the precious minerals came from beneath the ground which was his domain. Also when you compare the abilities of the gods, Zeus isn't as powerful as his older brothers. Poseidon was master of the seas, king of all who lived under the waves and so terrible in his wroth that he created earthquakes. Remember that in the myth of atlantis it was poseidon who destroyed it, he raised it, blessed it and then threw it down.
+MadMargaretGaming Did the minerals not come from Gaia?
Kimiko Tekuno Hades domain was all that was below the ground.
No. Zeus was most powerful. Read some primary sources before you throw out some stuff you learned in Percy Jackson.
Fried Keenan Zeus was most powerful? Fuck of with your Hollywood interpretation, bullshit. Yes, Zeus was a king, but that does not make him the most powerful.
Kimiko Tekuno Read the Iliad and get back to me
Came into this hoping it was covering the worldbuilding and creating religions for games, like in Elder Scrolls.
+Rosalie Kitchen I came for the same reasons.
Yeah, I wanted more of an exploration of that "mechanics" point they made. (I'm Dragon Age trash, what can I say?)
Yeah I also was expecting dragon age to be heavily discussed in this. By far the most complex and original religious concepts in a video game I've seen. Elder scrolls also goes deep too, though in my opinion it's kinda too meta to be compared to actual religions once you go down the rabbit hole.
I'm a Christian and I have no problem with Christianity being used in games. Even mockingly. I am personally a fan of "The Binding of Isaac".
Its funny that one. If I am not mistaken Edmund was raised Catholic so he was also making a game about concepts he met growing up. If it wasn't him it was Florien but in either case, a remark was made about the mythical appeal of Catholicism and how its trappings are almost like spells. Some of that went into Isaac as a game.
See, I like you. I like people like this. unless the form of media is especially "bullying" your faith, just take the joke.
+Rowan Isaacs essentially*
+Rowan Isaacs often times I face palm because people have so many misunderstandings about faith and philosophy because of media.
A tree is known by its fruit. If you truly love Christ, you will stay away from games such as he binding of Isaac. God said in 2 Corinthians 6,7 that we must not touch any unclean thing and that then He will be a Father unto us. Also, in James it is written: "Pure and undefined religion is this. To visit the widow and the Fatherless, and to keep ourselves unspotted form the world." How can you do this if you use such filth as the games you mention for entertainment?
Halo is obviously the perfect game to use to discuss this topic.
Halo
John 1:17
Ark
Flood
Creators/Makers
Covenant
Salvation/Great Journey
Oracle
Demon
Heresy
Prophecy
Desecration
Divine Wind
Sacred Icon
Themes of faith, savior, sacrifice, resurrection, revelation, rapture, Cortana as Madonna...
Holy shit how did I not realize that...?
Also Halo comments on Christianity is Islam. The Covenant are a theocracy waging a holy war on humanity. They are guided by the "Prophet of Truth" (a common term in Muslim communities for Muhammad) and fight a human race that behaves a lot like typical Westerners with a very Western culture.
one word will change your opinion on all of this ...
Wololololo
Dude, my blue pants instantly turned red!
+Randy Williams is "said"
deep..
You know more than what we can comprehend, you're knowledge is vast.
+Soulless Jack Mine turned yellow
One of the most vital skills in life is not being offended at *everything*.
Seriously, if you are one of those people, you will lead a miserable life.
+VintageLJ I'm offended by that.
Honestly, those who seem perpetually offended lives come off to me as only able to find pleasure in some sort of conflict. In a way, I am similar, but I exercise some sort of restraint (also games and boxing, so there's that). These people, I believe, could be wholly faithful in an ever-changing rhetoric, or see the rhetoric as a way to get a good fight on.
I'm one of those people and I'm miserable -_-
@@alshahriardihan1976 HOW DARE YOU!!!
3:00 the flying spaghetti monster. May you all be touched by his noodly appendage.
*I WOULD PREFER NOT TO GET TOUCHED BY A NOODLY APPENDAGE*
I like how you guys review things, you address things in clear open minded ways and really take the time to research the topic and form reviews based on facts rather than opinions. Keep up the awesome work EC team.
Thanks for making this video, it was very interesting. I liked how you and the team went through the process of making this video, i.e. addressing your topic question and reframing it. Look forward to watching part two.
Yeah, I hate it when my Slinkies tangle up, too...
Have you heard the word of our lord and savior Cthulhu?
This election season, vote for the greater evil, vote Cthulhu
Ey there's a video on that now
Cuthulu 2020
All hail the spaghetti monster
You HERETIC, Boreale. You stain the honor of the Blood Ravens by turning from the light of The God-Emperor.
I never expected to hear Kate Covington music on this show's outro's. Nice touch.
I actually wrote a blog about Religion is video games years ago on the GameTrailers website, back when they allowed site members to write blogs. Back then, I think my approach was a bit more towards how religion was portrayed positively or negatively in video games. I used examples like "Gabriel Knight," "Assassin's Creed," and "Broken Sword," among others.
Insulting someone because they are a christian/atheist.
Seems easy.
People are sensitive. It is pretty easy, despite their demographic.
I know.
:P
Gojira13 What people dont understand is this: The religious person has a right to be religious as much as the atheist. Nobody has the right to insult the other or his beliefs or lack thereoff. When you are critising an atheist for been as such you are a scumbag. When you are critising a religious person for been one you are a scumbag too.
John Paul are you also a scumbag for criticizing religious belief? Genuinely curious what you think
Darkstar1484 I think that in your hurry to post your smart ass comment, you didnt read correctly what I posted. Try again.
1:25
This picture angers me beyond any reasonable measure.
Very refreshing watch. You guys are pretty good at providing information.
I can't wait for next week. keep up the good work and the open minds
I think you guys share my love of Xenogears. It keeps appearing in your videos, you even used Katethegreat's version of "Bonds of Sea and Fire" this time. Awesome.
johannhowitzer, #2 Favorite game! ^_^
id say its in my top ten but ive never actually decided what my top #1 favorite games ever been. Way too many awesome rpgs in my list too ever decide
I had to scroll down just to find a comment that shares my feeling for the beautiful outro music they included here. This was the first I heard this arrangement of that song from Xenogears and it was breathtaking
okami did not just borrow the name of gods because it was "cool" the game explores faith and belief of the gods or lack there of. Amaterasu is at her highest power when the people of nipon prayed to her. The game even says "don't just pray when you want something". How is that shallow? I hate to harp but I don't like a game I love misrepresented.
Who gave birth to amaterasu in the game.
@@komododragon7619 obama
Aww man that outro music is the best. I've been subbed to KateTheGreat for about a year now, I really love her work.
While watching this, I felt nostalgic about playing Populous and Dungeon Keeper.
Flame wars incoming!
+Diego Hernández correction, 36 months ago
Another thing to keep in mind when creating religious characters is what parts of the religion do they like and what do they not. Like you guys said in your video on creating true female characters, real people don't agree with every single rule in their religion and what they do agree with can tell you a lot about them.
You guys should definitely cover more tablet games. Today, they deserve the same respect. Year Walk was based on religious material, even down to the art style. And the accessibility they did it with was exhilarating.
I'm super new to your channel and don't normally post but I, as an agnostic but raised hardcore christian, think you did an amazing job posting both the positive and the negative of all aspects. that said I think there is at least one game that bridges that faith gap with flower. (if this was mentioned before, again i'm sorry, new to your channel)
2:47 So the doctor... are we going to get a time travel episode? Please?
I do like the video, but I feel to discuss religion in games you guys focused too much on real-world depictions of religions and not enough on fictional religions, with only a few mentions here and there. I'm sure considering this more would have made finding content a bit easier.
I think talking about fictional religions and how in games then take inspiration from real-world religions through mechanics and interactive narratives would be an episode in itself.
It's kinda hard to make a fictional religion feel realistic, because it usually ends up feeling like a mocking or an indoctrination. We don't know what people had back then to come to the conclusion of these religions. We're usually only bound to one mindset about religion. It takes someone who have been through most of the sides in religion to actually understand what fundamental idea based these things.
You have to remember this episode was requested by a donator, maybe this is what they wanted to know about?
This is a tough conversation to have. I'm glad y'all talked about it in such a balanced way and I'm looking forward to part 2
great episode and outro music.
Praise the sun!
yes Praise the sun!
\|T|/
\o/
If only I could be so grossly incandescent
Screw you Akhenaten!
0:18
How did they not put the TF2 flamethrower there?
BECAUSE THE BACKBURNER IS USELESS!
* Cough *
Erm, sorry.
mmmphh!
cuz hats and gaben
Sage fusion 2 had an awesome pope and was heavy on religion but very well written. I believe xenogears also had religion too, as did grandia 2. We could always talk about priest and crusader classes too, like in ragnarok online. Though in terms of dialogue, it is well done when people can display depth on the belief rather than be militant on it.
Love the Xenogears music at the end! One of my favorite RPGs! ^^
The only game I can remember that made not simply religion but also faith it's central narrative subject is "Dragon Age: Inquisition".
Long talk short, I think it worked wonders in giving distinct personalities to NPCs.
Final Fantasy X. The entire thing even the back history is centred around religion and religious politics.
I've been interested in developing my lore in game form, it's based off of Jewish Kabbalah primarily, but implements plenty of elements from other ideologies, like Alchemy. It also happens to be polytheistic... I would share more but there is so much that I could never put it all in a single RUclips comment.
I can't believe you know Okami! Finally a well known youtuber that knows such a good game
5:09 , Dragon Age and Mass Effect , 2 Bioware masterpieces that now that I think of it really do pull in some of the mechanics of religion. Great observation EC!
If only the binding of isaac was released earlier the script wouldn't be that hard to right
Funny thing, the top comments make fun of the people who fight about religion but I am not seeing and comments like that.
Dragonova -
Im Tabe, who's right below you, at least how RUclips's filtering it for me--was the top comment before mine.
I forgot about final fantasy tactics since I was so engrossed in the job system they fixed in the ios/psp remake and Balthier was awesome and Luso cool with their cutscenes. The divide between mercenaries and the theocracy was interesting too; see gafgarion and Agrias squibble in the beginning before the flashback.
I feel this video goes to show how Religion, even when handled respectfully, can spark heated arguments that seem to miss the point of the topic.
Dragon Age did a really good job with religion in my opinion 😊
Welp, time to start reporting comments made by hateful zealots both religious and anti-religious...
***** >reporting comments
>on youtube
>in 2015
kek
Great Lord Chin-Chin Totally worth it
+Dracomut Clearly you know how to have fun ;D
"zealots both religious and anti-religious"
Please pay attention
Taxtro
You are the best example I can find of people who pay literally no attention to what’s actually being said and just what you want to focus on...
Very well done episode, one of the few videos that doesn't criticize or brings up religion wars
Love the nod to Xenogears both ends the Babel tower reference and Erutan's cover of Fire and wind
I'm pleasantly surprised to see only a handful of smug, obnoxious commenters here.
Hope I didn't just jinx myself.
3:00 - 3:02 fanfiction in a nutshell
Nice touch finishing with Xenogears music!!
Very nice points. Concerning the lore aspect, there is just so much nuance and meaning packed into each term from religion or myth that it's frankly really disappointing that it doesn't go beyond just appearance in many cases. Religious imagery is immensely powerful and dramatic that it's sad to see it being used in a very superficial manner.
Couldn't find a modern example. The Binding of Isaac, perhaps? Edmund Mcmillen, made meat boy. Yeah.
what about the binding of Isaac!
God I love this channel (EIGHTEEN YEARS LATE.)
If you do a follow up for this runescape has single handedly the best religion system of any game.
All praise Gaben
I really wish we all lived in a world where people could just say "to each his own" and leave it at that.
sadly its in human nature to seek out any form of conflict, even in peacetimes.
Then we would all remain stagnant and never progress anywhere as humans.
I thought this was gonna be a comment on religious games themselves (which exist and...well...), but this is so much better.
Also its an interesting note that the storyline of Halo hints that Judeo-Christianity was actually influenced BY THE EVENTS OF THE GAME ITSELF, hence the references.
The story of Noah's Ark for example was in actuality the missunderstood memory of humanity evacuating to the Greater Ark.
Ah that Xenogears music to tickle the nostalgia.
Also 4:13 did the guys from Carbot collab with EC?
You do realize that you've said or implied, in this video, that religion cannot be a negative thing unless it is perverted from its original ideals?
I don't think they've said that.
If they straight up say whether they think religion in real life is good or bad, they're gonna piss off either the Evangelicals or the antitheists.
Except that they carefully treaded around the idea that religion even can be bad, thereby taking a side whether they care to or not. It's evident in them referencing the perversion of religion and its ideals.
From what I understood they implied people have used religion to both make good selfless deeds and also used it as a shield to justify their selfish ones. In context with the topic the player would get a good idea of what kind of character they're facing from how they use religion. Whether religion itself is a good or bad thing is way different lol
So?
That is, at the very least, far from the point they were trying to convey
I see all these gods and goddesses all the time because i play smite
I'm curious what you think of Persona's use of religious lore (Persona 3 in particular). The personas themselves taught me a lot about many non-Judeo-Christian legends I hadn't heard from previously (and even many Christian figures who aren't God or Satan), but even more fascinating were Edogawa's lectures on magic systems. Not only did these push some interesting trivia, but they demonstrated the synergy between multiple concepts in separate belief systems, building a nuanced case for the idea that all religions are communicating the same underlying themes: it wasn't as oversimplified as "Some call me God, some call me Zeus, some call me Thor and/or Odin because roles are getting muddled now," but instead noted the numerical and thematic similarities between multiple ideas, such as Numerology and the Sephirot.
On top of that, by positioning the Dark Hour -- something which I'm told originates from Jungian psychology, which the game has heavily mixed with the Major Arcana of tarot -- as the invisible time when those _with_ magic _experience_ magic, it provides an easy explanation for why normal people don't see these things, without lapsing into oversimplification; it portrays believers and non-believers as equally-rational, believing only in what's put before their faces without ever going 'Look, dummy, the answer's right here.' You can't look to Christianity for all the answers any more than you can look to Hinduism, Buddhism, or even secular science, because at least in the boundaries of the Persona world, there are specific figures and forces for which these cannot account. By giving a fairly accurate (if shortened) representation of so many specific lores, it builds on religion mechanically as well, and even ends up addressing the question of which thus-far incomplete answer the characters put their faith in.
I suspect this is the kind of faith you're talking about. A priest with no powers would only be rational if they saw powers manifesting elsewhere. Otherwise, there is an assumption so much heavier than merely trusting in evidence: that these specific deities and doctrines which have yet to show themselves are somehow The Truth hiding in the back of the universe. These assumptions are on different orders of magnitude. But a character who sees the effects of their faith in a way that other people don't communicates something important about subjective perception that is at the heart of _rational_ faith. In the same way, I'm typing this message to people I can only assume exist because they continue putting out content, and even if they don't see it, themselves, the comments below this text box have done something to convince me that real humans are looking at and discussing this video. I can't prove it, but it's a shot in the dark that occasionally reverberates back, and that's enough to change my belief from 'unquestioning acceptance' to 'seemingly-sound theory.'
As a colorblind dude with a history of hallucinations, I don't think unquestioning faith is a necessity in life. Rather, _the single most rational thing we can do_ is react to evidence. Yes, there are epistemological concerns which call into question the validity of that evidence, but the _chance_ that it's real is still better than literally any alternative, especially if it turns out that yes, it did come from reality. It's Pascal's wager without several of the greatest flaws: Pascal assumed there could be no downside to religion, even if the object of that religion didn't exist, but the moral judgements sometimes tied to religion mean this isn't necessarily true. On the other hand, there is literally no downside to believing that this world is the one that objectively exists, that the worlds seen in hallucination and delusion aren't real.
I see everything as much greener than the rest of the world does, but given the evidence that has been presented to me, it's a fact that the light is filtered into these green colors by the cones in the back of my eyes. I've had short, frightening visions of things attacking people, but that damage has never persisted, so I can rationally say it was a trick of a stressed subconscious mind, the movement of electricity and neurotransmitters throughout my brain. My subjective experience is not at odds with the concept of objectivity because something that's 'all in my head' is still literally, physically, and objectively happening. Similarly, I'm an agnostic atheist, which means that my subjective experience hasn't given me a reason to believe in anything supernatural, but I understand that agnostic theists may have had experiences that have convinced them _something is out there_, even if they don't know what. This is different still from people who _have_ settled on a religion because of their own experiences with it, shots in the dark that have reverberated back. Subjectively, we have all been presented with evidence that we're just gonna have to trust because what would we trust otherwise? Nothingness? Well that wouldn't make for very sound decision-making. But objectively, who knows? That box really might be green, that street arrow really might have transformed into a monster with daggers for hands, and God really might be watching over us after all. The truth is out there, and all we can do to find it is our very best.
-reads title-
-opens video and grabs popcorn-
sun praising?
Yes. There were many peoples who worshiped the moon in ancient times as well.
were. thats the thing...
those filthy casuals burnt like the sun when their time came.
lolol filthy casuals. I got to admit I laughed really hard about that one.
before I watched I already thought final fantasy X would be in
I must say, it makes much happier than I think it should that I came across an episode where you mentioned a Paradox game (except for Victoria II)... maybe because I became emotionally attached to it. And building empires. And wanting to be ruthless, but still only banishing the character that murdered my empress's husband, showing me I'm more ethical than I thought I am, but hey.
That is a very good stance to hold and I share it. Though it doesn't go through the struggles of belief, I was surprised Assassin's Creed wasn't mentioned on the exploration of free belief versus the Templar's ideals of one overarching belief. This was prevalent certainly in Assassin's Creed 1 through every assassination. "Nothing is true, everything is permitted" is a motto that basically defines how to view knowledge from human perspective: Belief.
"But he's still a heretic!" Where is that from?
*****
I would like the name of this game as well :P
I want to know too :\
+Holo The Wise Wolf (Holo.) I believe that is from Final Fantasy Tactics.
From what I was taught a heretic is someone who tells false teaching about a certain religion, or religious group possibly.
+Holo The Wise Wolf (Holo.) that was one of the cutscenes in the PSP remake of Final Fantasy Tactics (FFT: War of the lions) and that game is a shining example of questioning the religion that you have been brought up with as well as just showing that the truth is often not the easiest route but can be the most satisfying end (quick warning if you want to pick it up there is an unfortunate and unavoidable bug which makes it so that everything slows WAY down whenever a special move, spell or item is used)
if only smite was out back then
Bioshock Infinite, nuff said B/
How about Inquisition? That game curb stomped Religion in games in every conceivable way. If this had been made after that, I can pretty much guarantee it would be their main example of how to do this properly.
YES!!!!! You mentioned a paradox interactive game!
awww that Xenogears track at the end. Xenogears was such a great game... listening to the track just makes me want to go play it again
hehehehe....Bioshock Infinite could have been a exemplar of religion in a game...
Shinzon23 How?
samiamtheman 73
Mostly how religion can influence people into pulling off impressive feats... as well as heinous acts of barbarity.
Shinzon23 Except in BioShock Infinite, it is religion perverted into a cult.
true.
Lazurkri The religion was more of a backdrop that helped construct the setting than the main theme of the game.
bioshock infinite
Wow one year to make one episode. Man this topic must be hard to resuche.
The Hymn of Aveh at the end?! That brings back such fond memories... Fuckin' loved Xenogears.
Zamorak
Guthix
Saradomin
armadyl
bandos
seren
amascut
elidinis
zaros
icthlarin (did i spell that right?)
scarabas
:P
time to get 99 fm at wintertodt
EU pleb: Tankcommandanten at what? i have not played runescape in months, perhaps a year
its a minigame/boss where you get good fm xp/ hour on oldschool
EU pleb: Tankcommandanten i still remember literally trailblazing for FM XP
i find it odd, that, in real life i'm not only an atheist, but massively against religion, yet in games, i can become the most zealous bastard in the universe, smiting heathens and non-believers wherever i find them.
I'm extremely atheist, but exploring the world of religion in games can be fantastic because the mythology behind it, The greek Mythology is one of my favorite with interesting characters and persona that can make great worlds in games. In fantasy and mythology perpespective, religion can work extremely well.
Being a religious zealot is fun
I think a games that use the symbology of religion pretty well are actually the Deus Ex series. Of course we have the actual series name and the use of the Order as bad guys in Invisible War, which I actually think was a step backwards, but it comes up all the time.
-Adam encounters Jaron, who is called the Serpent, right before Megan tries to convince him that he's on the wrong path.
-JC compares the Helios solution to De Tocqueville's theory of Thearchy; that is governance directly by God as opposed to the Church which is Theocracy.
-Sarif being another way to say Seraph or the highest choir of angels.
And much more.
I saw you mention the Abaddon, and at the end talked about how religion can sometimes make us do terrible things. SO I assume you will mention the Amarr in part 2?
*ahem* josuah graham
I'd rather games not go into the meaning of religion, as media normally gets stuff wrong for the sake of being politically correct. Speaking as a Christian, just... no...
+plzwork100 If films, art and music can explore religion, then games can too. No topic is off-limits for one medium and not another.
Thank you for adding in Populous!!
From a mechanics standpoint, the flash game Rebuild 2 show how people may act according to religion. In these games, you have the power to decide the outcome of a new rising religion which thinks of zombies (it's a zombie game, by the way) as equal to humans, and if you let them do as they please they may become fanatic to the point of "joining" the zombies. It's pretty messed up but I think it could be more or less like what you said
I personally that some of these developers kinda plagiarize other religions.
***** It's hilarious how people think of Western religions as oppressive and Eastern religions as liberating. The stereotypes are ridiculous.
Hey I bet an edgy atheist with a no effort comment will be the top comment
WHADDAYA KNOW
How much you wanna bet there will also be Christians who refuse to acknowledge anyone elses points and constantly insist they are absolutely right not too far behind?
You get what you put in. unintelligent remarks get unintelligent responses. Anything else would be a waste.
Robert Moody So if someone can give an intelligent remark based on logic and reason you will respond in kind?
Probably not on RUclips, and probably not with strangers, whose questions may have unkind intentions.
Robert Moody Why not be nice until they do something unkind? That way you don't look like a jerk and can have a reasonable conversation.
I've been waiting a while too
i love the picture of James in a battle charge. haha
As a christian, I have to apologize for my fellow christians behavior. We respond to the comment "God is not real" most of the time with "Your going to hell" A sinful yet true statement. Sinful because it's still unkind. True as your acting against God, which is mortal sin. The correct response should be a well reasoned argument for religion or even just a God, not particularly yours. For example, I don't believe a natural world was created through natural means. When the big bang happened, according to our current scientific data, it's most likely that the world actually begun there. An infinite universe is very improbable for reasons you can look up (don't feel like going into it). So that leaves 2 possibilities. Either A, it's just here, or B, it was created by a super natural force of limitless power. Something natural does need to be created as we see in our universe. Something super natural on the other hand by definition can break laws of this world including the need to be created. I have more examples. but thats beside the point.
I'm just saying "Your going to hell" without giving reason to believe is not going to convince anyone.
God himself couldn't have made a better comment. He could, but I'm talking metaphorically. Great comment and explanation :)
kooper phillips Thank you.
No problem.
There isn't anything that's supernatural. If God is eternal then it shouldn't be so hard to believe that the universe is eternal, since time began at the Big Bang.
TheApaura The difference is, our universe is natural. Meaning it has laws it must follow. Including the need to be created. God on the other hand is supernatural, with no need to be created. He also can be eternal as the need to be non-eternal (There a word for that?) Is natural. Plus, you contradicted yourself. The world cannot be eternal if time started as you said "at the Big Bang". Eternal is defined as without beginning or end. I'm not going to argue any further then this, as lets face it, even if I were a professional debater, you probably wouldn't convert. God Bless.
"...or be perverted ro justify the most haness ills..."
"Deus vult" can be stapled onto a lot of things. Think about that.
Haness? Or heinous?
yes, I finally found an episode that mentions dragonage!
That's Kate Covington (a.k.a. katethegreat19 a.k.a. Erutan) performing her rendition of "Bonds of Sea and Fire" from "Xenogears." The song is on RUclips.
Using fiction to write fiction.... How is this a tricky subject?
ha.... i bet you think your clever and so original... you don't under stand something so you insult it.. truly you are the bigger man here.
***** What do I not understand about religion? That it's based on absolutely no observable science and is used to control people?
My dear friend , if you could only try and take another look at religion through others eyes .the bible told those stories in a way for people to understand back then.the reason they seem so fiction is because it wouldn't make sense if you said "god made you through millions of years of evolution and hard ships " instead of "and The Lord made you from the ground in his image".
First of all, you clearly have never seen the debates that rage over fanon and fan fiction. Second of all, it doesn't matter if YOU think it's fictional, people take their religion very seriously. When you talk about something in the real world that's taken seriously by so many people, you need to be very careful even if you personally haven't done anything with it.
Im Tabe Yes! Let the hate flow through you!
no. religion doesn't help us to understand where our place is. it just gives some people the excuse to believe that their place is "higher" than others.
TheAfroMenace
He's right you know.
im a christian and i believe that i am equal with everyone. Infact the bible tells christians that they are equal with everyone else and that it is a sin to act like you are better because you are christian. So maybe do your research before spewing bullshit like that.
gottaget myjam i did never pick on christianity. but in christianity there were and still are lot's of people who said and are saying the exact opposite if what you just said. what do you say against them? they are wrong? how do you prove that? with your bible, but they are using the exact same book to prove their point.
the bible doesn't have to tell you that you are equal to everyone else, because you aren't. people are different, and that's cool - difference is cool. but you have to treat everyone as though they were equal. that's the big thing your bible doesn't tell.
the fact that you can point at some passages in your holy book that can be layed out as if they were inclusively, doesn't do a goddamn shit about the fact that there are still people believing in a literal hell and thinking that everybody else except themselves deserves to go there.
That's because they are wrong see I can just send you straight off quotes from the bible they got a few shitty read into bullshit. Man I agree difference us g ood but we are all equil
gottaget myjam please tell me how it is to have an endlessly elastic gumball of religion which can take on any form you want.
how about just not pointing at some ancient text, full of frightening stuff specifically designed to control a bunch of peasants and instead having a conversation in a 21st century context?
they are not wrong because the bible tells otherwise (if it even does) - they are wrong because it's immoral to discriminate anybody.
they are wrong because their hateful behaviour harms other people, which then raises more hatred.
they are wrong because spreading hatred can AND IN FACT HAS lead to terrible wars and suffering for everyone.
just don't point at a book - point at your own given intuition, which is worth so much more.
you don't discriminate people, because the bible tells you not to - you don't discriminate people because you don't want to be discriminated yourself.
peace
I've been following EC for a long time and can't recall an instance where that happened. You'll have to provide me with an example, and refer me to an episode and timestamp preferably.
This episode was well done, I think that it pointed out examples of religion in games in a non biased way, and in a non offensive way. A very mature take on this very controversial topic. Good job. (Also proud of audience. No flamewars as of yet.)