I believed you Thomas, and now my indie game's 'demo' was featured on Front page of Steam which got me an exclusive interview with IGN. I hope, this will help me in getting a Publisher. Hoping for the best and thank you so much for your videos brother.! 💪
DO NOT use unlicensed music if your demo is public facing or will ever be seen in public (ie: even videos of it on the internet)! I believe that's what Thomas meant to say when he said 'especially if it's private' but it's worth clarifying. There's plenty of royalty free music you can use, but make sure you read the fine print. If you're gonna slap some CCR on your Battlefield Vietnam clone, make sure the audience is super restricted.
I think that sound can easily make it amongst the trinity hook elements.. It's so underrated and nobody is giving it enough credit but it's as important as visuals in my opinion. From the loading screen, the menu to the gameplay itself, it's what gets your soul hooked to the game!
Sound is important to game feel, but similar to what Thomas said about narrative twist, it can’t sell a demo/marketing in a few minutes. Sound won’t carry a game by itself like visuals, mechanics, or story can.
Well... I would say that this is not the case. Tetris wasn't about sound at all. Early pc games had very limited sound fx and quite often had no music. Most of the people turn the sound off in their mobile games. Instantly. The sound DOES add a bit of mood and value, but i personally think that it doesn't have so much of impact. The only exception is when the sound actually helps you to play. Like hearing some monster growl behind that door )
@@Rai2M Hmm, I kinda respectfully disagree, but I'll let you know I'm biased as a musician ;) Although it has it's own truth, I think it's a bit of false equivalency to compare old games that might have been loaded off a tape with modern productions. Get the shooting SFX wrong in a FPS game and people will hate it, get the sound of your shotgun right though, and people will still talk about years later. Plenty of real world examples if you get me.
@@Rai2M Personally I think that if "It does not have as much impact" you're just not using it to it's fullest potential. Most games just don't focus on sound. Some games do. "Guitar Hero" "Patapon" A lot of Horror games simply do not exist without TOP NOTCH sounds. Iron lung for example. Sounds are basically as important if not more important than visuals in this game.
I believe it's a bit about misunderstanding. Prototype is a prototype, it's for internal use and testing game mechanics, shaders, cool/no so cool things, art and so on. Prototyping is prototyping, don't let bells and whistles of your prototype make you feel good. If you don't have shiny stuff but it still gets your mom, gf, cat etc hooked, it's ok to keep working on it. When you make a *demo* version of your future game, that's the different, completely different story. Prototypes are private and for devs (and random victims) only, demos are for public.
Do like Night Stones is doing. Gave a small demo starting at the beginning of the game. Then slowly build onto it giving the demo an update every few weeks with new content. And so far it has been highly polished so that's helping to keep players engaged.
IMO, a demo should be released only when you have a close-to-final build of the game ready with most features implemented. A bad half finished demo with WIP assets and mechanics will leave a bad impression on potential buyer. Not having a demo is better than a releasing a bad demo!
I agree with you, but then this goes against the direction he is pointing here: seeking a partnership with publishers is part of fundraising, and doing it only by the end of your dev cycle is too late, it should be done early. How to make a super polished demo early in development? Many things about the game are undecided at this point, and you only have a north star of what you want to achieve with the game. In the end, your entire "polished" demo is just a placeholder for selling the idea of the game you want to make, and maybe will not even be used to the final product. For that, I would prefer focusing on gameplay and narrative for the demo and have the visual only portrait in concept arts, because that is the most expensive part of the game to develop at that stage.
There's a term for this: Vertical slice. You build and polish every core aspect of the game, making it look like the final product. However, you've only completed about 1 or 2 stages (or maps or any playtime metrics that your game can utilize). Then you have your vertical slice of the product, and from there, you can proceed to build horizontally, continuously adding content until you're satisfied. That's the workflow I intend to use for my game.
@@Macro1Gamer yeah, but a vertical slice is no cheap to build. If you are fundraising with publishers or investors, it will be really hard for you to bootstrap until getting the vertical slice, which is at some point around 1/3 or half of your development cycle. You should focus on your pitchable MVP, and how to best sell it. In the end, the prototype is only one aspect of the pitch.
Hi Thomas, I just wanted to say that I really admire and appreciate you for all your hard work for us and your amazing talent in making games and creating content. Me, right now in the middle of making a demo game I'm just at the beginning and in addition I'm in a school setting so being able to progress and improve will take time but hopefully I'll succeed in the end and if it happens, a large part of it is thanks to you.
I think youre saying a lot of good stuff here but I see a demo being a bit different than a prototype. To me prototyping is like you said "grey boxing." Getting the fundamentals to see if your game idea at its basics is fun. But a demo, Id say, is past prototype. You know what the game is, the art direction, the story and everything is basically decided on and the demo showcases what the game is like for 15-30 minutes. So youre no longer prototyping the game. Anywho, nice vid and some good advice
To those complaining about his content, hear me out....he is repeating the MOST IMPORTANT part which the majority of indie developers just don't seem to wanna grasp. Repeating it as often as necessary with different examples and different interactions, so maybe one day all those indie-devs go "AHA!! I finally get it." Meaning, in the end his goal will be accomplished. He is not here to entertain or make money, he is making YOU and the rest of us understand how WE can do it and make money.
Thank you so much for all tips and insiration, Thomas! Your videos helped me to start this crazy dev journey and Im making a very polished demo to put on Steam. But when it is the right time to use it? How to know if is too late, or too soon?
I've found your free content very helpful and was wondering if you're willing to share how much you make from the courses given you've revealed how much you make from other sources.
I've always considered making a seperate pocket experience of my game as a demo. Something that isn't connected to the base game but has the same mechanics. The issue, ofcourse, is that people might rethink their purchase if the game is not what they expected. I'm unsure what to do just yet. I'll probably just stick with video marketing for now.
If your game doesn't work as a demo, it doesn't work as a full release. If people love the first 15 minutes, they'll stay for 2 hours. If you think people will rethink their purchase in 15 minutes, they can already do a refund request with steam, and it just means you're already not confident in your product - so investigate those issues and go do in person play test. Validate concerns.
this was a really cool video, or think were good questions . . what's a ' hook ', or how to sell, or monetize that think everyone has a fave genre, or things they think are better for the video games, or etc some people enjoy adventure games some people enjoy horror and, then to write a list of one's eight favorite hooks, or what one wants one's game to have, or to learn from the process, sell, or also important theater, or culture people are different, or each artist paints in this, or that way, or however thinking in the way you're talking about is very helpful
I would also budget time/money towards visuals beyond what you’ll get from an artist. There will end up being non-trivial code that hooks into visuals. Good animation can’t just be plugged in from an artist, and will be unique to the game.
What is meant with a "game demo", is it just a video that shows just some features (and "fake" gameplay or just screenshorts) or is it a real playable demo version ? I think to make a real playable demo is sometimes not that easy if the final game would have many features. For example sports games, a playable demo would have almost have the simlar amount of features like the final game ... or survival games, it would take almost a year (or even much longer) to make just a simple 30 minutes demo.
Typically to sell to a publisher, you would have a vertical slice. However, he's stating making a 15 minute demo that fully encapsulates what your full game is like.
@@paluxyl.8682 If it will be a game demo, then it must be playable. If it will be a video of gameplay, then it's just a gameplay video. For example, many successful games on Steam don't have demos but just promo and gameplay videos, so it's up to your decision.
One of the youtuber who do a lot for us ,Thomas is doing a lot for community ,just guys buy Thomas Courses he deserve our support ,it does not matter whether you like the course or not just buy it please
Weird question here Thomas, but how long do you think we "Should" take to make a polished demo as a very small team? (like 3 people). I know that it depends on the game itself but...I'd like to know how much time taken is "safe" to make a polished demo. Anyways cool content Thomas, lots to learn here.
@@flamart9703 hell nah i'm just stupid asf😂 Really, I started working on the shooter 2 months ago and it's barely playable. There is only one animation done (i need about 30) and I'm not half done with the level design💀 The player movement is good and the art style is clean but man... I'm so cooked right now
@@victordayet Haha, I'm cooked too, last month can barely do anything about my project even I know how and what must do, but this time I feel like it's something different that ordinary laziness, maybe need some vitamins, spring fatigue I guess. But since your case is just dev event, it's okay, but for publishing on steam better wait for almost finished playable vertical slice (usually first level of the game).
Your content is useful overall, but it really feels like you're milking the same few words over and over again just to get daily uploads. If you're struggling to find content, maybe make twisted tower devlogs, like summaries of your streams every now and then.
Or...hear me out....he is repeating the MOST IMPORTANT part which the majority of indie developers just don't seem to wanna grasp. Repeating it as often as necessary with different examples and different interactions, so maybe one day all those indie-devs go "AHA!! I finally get it." Meaning, in the end his goal will be accomplished. He is not here to entertain or make money, he is making YOU and the rest of us understand how WE can do it and make money.
Hello I've recently made a demo it's on steam and I've recently learnt that feedback is so important and I'm working on fixing not just for the demo but also the game
I have a game engine question. I've been starting my first game ever, I'm about 7 weeks into my game. I'm developing my game in Godot, and saw a few of your videos about Unreal engine... and was wondering if it's gonna be easier / better / more convenient to swap to Unreal now, or just use Godot. Just looking for feedback
Hey man, as a fellow developer that stepped a little in both engines (way more in Godot, tho), I can assure you that any decision that you end up making will be alright. Both engines are great, but depending on your game. If you're intending to AAA 3D graphics ultra high quality baldur's gate 3 level... Well, that's the only part that Godot can't keep up with Unreal. But as a indie developer, probably alone - just assuming here - you'll be pretty fine sticking to Godot... Or switching to Unreal. Really, that doesn't matter as much as may seem. Blueprints can do almost everything that pure code can do and they're pretty easy to learn, if you already know a bit of programming. Godot, however, you have to code. No way to run from that. I guess that'd be the greatest difference. And the 3d graphics. Other than that... Not too much. Stick to what you like the most.
I think mr thomas videos are getting further and further away from practical videos . there are too many marketing videos and less practical videos. what we need is more videos on beautify,atmosphere design in 3D and 2D.
Man I really need help selling my game 😂😂. It's so embarrassing to make something so good but no one has heard of it. Only 300 views for the trailer !💔
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
► Learn how to make money from your indie games (free webinar): www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-in-how-to-make-six-figures
I don't believe that the "hook" is the same as the "bait". The bait lures people to the hook. The hook keeps them there.
I believed you Thomas, and now my indie game's 'demo' was featured on Front page of Steam which got me an exclusive interview with IGN. I hope, this will help me in getting a Publisher. Hoping for the best and thank you so much for your videos brother.! 💪
Amazing!
You are the guy with the farming game from reddit right
@@ReverseFlash. yes haha 🙌
@@hamzahgamedev congrats man
and now I hear you got a publisher :)
DO NOT use unlicensed music if your demo is public facing or will ever be seen in public (ie: even videos of it on the internet)! I believe that's what Thomas meant to say when he said 'especially if it's private' but it's worth clarifying. There's plenty of royalty free music you can use, but make sure you read the fine print. If you're gonna slap some CCR on your Battlefield Vietnam clone, make sure the audience is super restricted.
I use pixabay! Is that ok ? They said free 😮
I think that sound can easily make it amongst the trinity hook elements.. It's so underrated and nobody is giving it enough credit but it's as important as visuals in my opinion. From the loading screen, the menu to the gameplay itself, it's what gets your soul hooked to the game!
Sound is important to game feel, but similar to what Thomas said about narrative twist, it can’t sell a demo/marketing in a few minutes. Sound won’t carry a game by itself like visuals, mechanics, or story can.
MICK GORDON :)
Well... I would say that this is not the case. Tetris wasn't about sound at all. Early pc games had very limited sound fx and quite often had no music. Most of the people turn the sound off in their mobile games. Instantly. The sound DOES add a bit of mood and value, but i personally think that it doesn't have so much of impact. The only exception is when the sound actually helps you to play. Like hearing some monster growl behind that door )
@@Rai2M Hmm, I kinda respectfully disagree, but I'll let you know I'm biased as a musician ;)
Although it has it's own truth, I think it's a bit of false equivalency to compare old games that might have been loaded off a tape with modern productions.
Get the shooting SFX wrong in a FPS game and people will hate it, get the sound of your shotgun right though, and people will still talk about years later. Plenty of real world examples if you get me.
@@Rai2M Personally I think that if "It does not have as much impact" you're just not using it to it's fullest potential. Most games just don't focus on sound.
Some games do.
"Guitar Hero"
"Patapon"
A lot of Horror games simply do not exist without TOP NOTCH sounds.
Iron lung for example. Sounds are basically as important if not more important than visuals in this game.
I believe it's a bit about misunderstanding. Prototype is a prototype, it's for internal use and testing game mechanics, shaders, cool/no so cool things, art and so on. Prototyping is prototyping, don't let bells and whistles of your prototype make you feel good. If you don't have shiny stuff but it still gets your mom, gf, cat etc hooked, it's ok to keep working on it. When you make a *demo* version of your future game, that's the different, completely different story. Prototypes are private and for devs (and random victims) only, demos are for public.
3:39 I think he is describing a vertical slice without calling it that
Do like Night Stones is doing. Gave a small demo starting at the beginning of the game. Then slowly build onto it giving the demo an update every few weeks with new content. And so far it has been highly polished so that's helping to keep players engaged.
IMO, a demo should be released only when you have a close-to-final build of the game ready with most features implemented. A bad half finished demo with WIP assets and mechanics will leave a bad impression on potential buyer. Not having a demo is better than a releasing a bad demo!
100000000000000000000000000%
He does teach to fo a polished demo. Not just a lazy demo.
I agree with you, but then this goes against the direction he is pointing here: seeking a partnership with publishers is part of fundraising, and doing it only by the end of your dev cycle is too late, it should be done early.
How to make a super polished demo early in development? Many things about the game are undecided at this point, and you only have a north star of what you want to achieve with the game. In the end, your entire "polished" demo is just a placeholder for selling the idea of the game you want to make, and maybe will not even be used to the final product.
For that, I would prefer focusing on gameplay and narrative for the demo and have the visual only portrait in concept arts, because that is the most expensive part of the game to develop at that stage.
There's a term for this: Vertical slice. You build and polish every core aspect of the game, making it look like the final product. However, you've only completed about 1 or 2 stages (or maps or any playtime metrics that your game can utilize). Then you have your vertical slice of the product, and from there, you can proceed to build horizontally, continuously adding content until you're satisfied. That's the workflow I intend to use for my game.
@@Macro1Gamer yeah, but a vertical slice is no cheap to build. If you are fundraising with publishers or investors, it will be really hard for you to bootstrap until getting the vertical slice, which is at some point around 1/3 or half of your development cycle.
You should focus on your pitchable MVP, and how to best sell it. In the end, the prototype is only one aspect of the pitch.
Hi Thomas, I just wanted to say that I really admire and appreciate you for all your hard work for us and your amazing talent in making games and creating content.
Me, right now in the middle of making a demo game I'm just at the beginning and in addition I'm in a school setting so being able to progress and improve will take time but hopefully I'll succeed in the end and if it happens, a large part of it is thanks to you.
LOVE IT!!! always glad to listen when you’re dropping knowledge!
I think youre saying a lot of good stuff here but I see a demo being a bit different than a prototype. To me prototyping is like you said "grey boxing." Getting the fundamentals to see if your game idea at its basics is fun. But a demo, Id say, is past prototype. You know what the game is, the art direction, the story and everything is basically decided on and the demo showcases what the game is like for 15-30 minutes. So youre no longer prototyping the game. Anywho, nice vid and some good advice
To those complaining about his content, hear me out....he is repeating the MOST IMPORTANT part which the majority of indie developers just don't seem to wanna grasp.
Repeating it as often as necessary with different examples and different interactions, so maybe one day all those indie-devs go "AHA!! I finally get it."
Meaning, in the end his goal will be accomplished. He is not here to entertain or make money, he is making YOU and the rest of us understand how WE can do it and make money.
Currently finishing up the demo with my team, just got the steam page up for wishlists... sweating, crying, doing backflips right now.........
working on my prototype now, playtesting in july, and aiming for steam page (demo available) in october just in time for spooky season
Thank you so much for all tips and insiration, Thomas! Your videos helped me to start this crazy dev journey and Im making a very polished demo to put on Steam. But when it is the right time to use it? How to know if is too late, or too soon?
I've found your free content very helpful and was wondering if you're willing to share how much you make from the courses given you've revealed how much you make from other sources.
hey thomas since we talked about game demos when the twisted tower demo comes out
I've always considered making a seperate pocket experience of my game as a demo. Something that isn't connected to the base game but has the same mechanics. The issue, ofcourse, is that people might rethink their purchase if the game is not what they expected. I'm unsure what to do just yet. I'll probably just stick with video marketing for now.
If your game doesn't work as a demo, it doesn't work as a full release. If people love the first 15 minutes, they'll stay for 2 hours. If you think people will rethink their purchase in 15 minutes, they can already do a refund request with steam, and it just means you're already not confident in your product - so investigate those issues and go do in person play test. Validate concerns.
this was a really cool video, or think were good questions . .
what's a ' hook ', or how to sell, or monetize that
think everyone has a fave genre, or things they think are better for the video games, or etc
some people enjoy adventure games
some people enjoy horror
and, then to write a list of one's eight favorite hooks, or what one wants one's game to have, or to learn from the process, sell, or also important theater, or culture
people are different, or each artist paints in this, or that way, or however thinking in the way you're talking about is very helpful
Have you done a video on why developers need publishers, or what game publishers do?
I would also budget time/money towards visuals beyond what you’ll get from an artist. There will end up being non-trivial code that hooks into visuals. Good animation can’t just be plugged in from an artist, and will be unique to the game.
What is meant with a "game demo", is it just a video that shows just some features (and "fake" gameplay or just screenshorts) or is it a real playable demo version ?
I think to make a real playable demo is sometimes not that easy if the final game would have many features.
For example sports games, a playable demo would have almost have the simlar amount of features like the final game ... or survival games, it would take almost a year (or even much longer) to make just a simple 30 minutes demo.
Typically to sell to a publisher, you would have a vertical slice. However, he's stating making a 15 minute demo that fully encapsulates what your full game is like.
@@SlothFang I know, but my question was must the demo be playable or just a video.
@@paluxyl.8682 If it will be a game demo, then it must be playable. If it will be a video of gameplay, then it's just a gameplay video. For example, many successful games on Steam don't have demos but just promo and gameplay videos, so it's up to your decision.
@@flamart9703 Thanks, now I understand ... a demo = playable ... a promo = just a video. ^^
One of the youtuber who do a lot for us ,Thomas is doing a lot for community ,just guys buy Thomas Courses he deserve our support ,it does not matter whether you like the course or not just buy it please
Weird question here Thomas, but how long do you think we "Should" take to make a polished demo as a very small team? (like 3 people). I know that it depends on the game itself but...I'd like to know how much time taken is "safe" to make a polished demo. Anyways cool content Thomas, lots to learn here.
Thomas: Your prototype is the most important thing you are going to make
Me: My demo sucks and I'm gonna present it at a game dev event in a week
Don't worry!! See this as prep work for your next game that definitely will be better! Keep it up!
Wow, you are very brave! :)
@@bjornterlegard Thanks so much for your kind words. You're right, the next one will be better :)
@@flamart9703 hell nah i'm just stupid asf😂 Really, I started working on the shooter 2 months ago and it's barely playable. There is only one animation done (i need about 30) and I'm not half done with the level design💀 The player movement is good and the art style is clean but man... I'm so cooked right now
@@victordayet Haha, I'm cooked too, last month can barely do anything about my project even I know how and what must do, but this time I feel like it's something different that ordinary laziness, maybe need some vitamins, spring fatigue I guess. But since your case is just dev event, it's okay, but for publishing on steam better wait for almost finished playable vertical slice (usually first level of the game).
Your content is useful overall, but it really feels like you're milking the same few words over and over again just to get daily uploads. If you're struggling to find content, maybe make twisted tower devlogs, like summaries of your streams every now and then.
Or...hear me out....he is repeating the MOST IMPORTANT part which the majority of indie developers just don't seem to wanna grasp.
Repeating it as often as necessary with different examples and different interactions, so maybe one day all those indie-devs go "AHA!! I finally get it."
Meaning, in the end his goal will be accomplished. He is not here to entertain or make money, he is making YOU and the rest of us understand how WE can do it and make money.
Hello I've recently made a demo it's on steam and I've recently learnt that feedback is so important and I'm working on fixing not just for the demo but also the game
1:21 Thomas the Fortuitous
I have a game engine question.
I've been starting my first game ever, I'm about 7 weeks into my game. I'm developing my game in Godot, and saw a few of your videos about Unreal engine... and was wondering if it's gonna be easier / better / more convenient to swap to Unreal now, or just use Godot.
Just looking for feedback
Hey man, as a fellow developer that stepped a little in both engines (way more in Godot, tho), I can assure you that any decision that you end up making will be alright.
Both engines are great, but depending on your game. If you're intending to AAA 3D graphics ultra high quality baldur's gate 3 level... Well, that's the only part that Godot can't keep up with Unreal.
But as a indie developer, probably alone - just assuming here - you'll be pretty fine sticking to Godot... Or switching to Unreal.
Really, that doesn't matter as much as may seem.
Blueprints can do almost everything that pure code can do and they're pretty easy to learn, if you already know a bit of programming.
Godot, however, you have to code. No way to run from that. I guess that'd be the greatest difference. And the 3d graphics. Other than that... Not too much. Stick to what you like the most.
@@Macro1Gamer Thank you for your input!
I think mr thomas videos are getting further and further away from practical videos . there are too many marketing videos and less practical videos. what we need is more videos on beautify,atmosphere design in 3D and 2D.
💯
What else? :D
Man I really need help selling my game 😂😂. It's so embarrassing to make something so good but no one has heard of it. Only 300 views for the trailer !💔
Thomas 👍👍
DON'T TRUST HIM !! HE IS A BIG SPAMMER !!
it's a shame you can't donate 1, or 2 $ to each video, or this one was worth at least that, or however it's your channel
Why demo when you can early access the whole thing?
And ideally have a f2p monetization so the buy cost doesnt have to exist anyway.