I made a spreadsheet of as many battery suppliers recommended settings. I have many customers with several different brands of 16S LiFePO4 batteries and a couple of 15s and 14s arrangements. I worked through a lowest common denominator and suggest a 3.45V per cell for Absorb (1-5 hours depending on bank size) and 3.40 for Float and for those customers Selling excess energy 3.35-3.40 per cell for SellRE setting. So, 55.2 ABS, 54.4 FLT. Andy of the Off Grid Garage did a study of the voltage verses State of Charge. That’s a great set of videos to digest. I enjoy your videos, keep up the great work.
For making adjustments on the Victron app you can tap on the number you want to change and then just type it in instead of scrolling to it with the + or -. Example tap on 54.80v and then type 57.6. It is much quicker.
Hi Bob. Do you happen to have a different invert you can swap out and see if it's still doing this? Another great video. Keep plugging away at it, you'll figure it out. I can't wait till you finally do.
I see the inverter behaving itself 😂, so balancing the batteries 🔋 did work. I wish there was some way of monitoring the cells though. Next thing a shame to have so much capacity just running a refrigerator. Put the whole house 🏡 on it and give it a full test run. Love to see how the inverter holds up.
I'm sure at those higher voltages the BMS is disconnecting. It should be impossible to see that voltage drop so far at inverter switch on with the battery cells connected. So you either have a weak cell that is going over voltage and triggering the BMS disconnect or maybe your battery pack only has 15 cells in it? 15 cells would give a fully charged voltage of 54.75.
The 4w you can see is the power required for the BMS there is no absorption or charging and possibly no balancing is the BMS is passive. The charge mosfets are open because one cell is over voltage. The crazy chart is the charge controller injecting the output into the inverter as the charge mosfet closes and opens below the reconnect voltage. The new powerqueen 48v is only 54 +- 0.75V. The 54V you are charging to is perfect. A higher charge voltage will result in a shorter absorption time but does not matter with solar storage its only good if you are short on time.
At what voltage is the balancer kicking in at that Power Queen? I do not think you are hig enough at 54.4V. What is Power Queen saying about balancing voltage?
For large voltage swings when booting up that inverter, seems like a loose connection of a super high load at startup. A bad battery cable crimp somewhere or a serious need for a pre-charge resistor might be in order. Or just replace the inverter with a Victron Mutliplus II. I know you want to. ;-)
I have the same issue with my WZRELB 24v inverter, as well as my new ac inverter the Xija CNSWIPOWER 48v 2000w. Ironically, I’ve got my charge controller set to 54.4 too which keeps the inverter cruising. What I’ve noticed is that it only happens when (1) the battery is near 100%, (2) the inverter load (heavy) drops off. (3) the panels are producing 1000+ watts. There is a sudden spike and the inverter over volts, beep beep, beep. Since the battery is full there’s nowhere for the charge controller to put the watts so it spikes before it can correct itself. These inexpensive inverters are trying to protect all battery types. The higher voltage of the lifepo4 vs lead acid makes the sweet spot not perfect for either battery type.
my victron multiplus will do the same thing, though it throws an error saying imput voltage wave error or some such thing. this happens when both the charge and discharge turns off on my home built 300ah bank.
I think you should disconnect the battery for a couple of weeks and set factory charge settings and let the battery balance out. But you have to do it for a min of two weeks more would be better.
The inverter is the part that in practice sets the highest limit. I think downgrading 0.5 Volt to 1.0 Volt from the manufacturer's data is close to solution. It is important to avoid the inverter giving a fault warning. Another comment further down writes that newer batteries have a lower recommended charging current
It would be good to see what the currents are from the battery to the inverter and the effective current from the solar to the inverter when the inverter is switched on. It seems like the battery has switched off and the mppt is feeding the capacitors of the inverter which has a high inrush current. The mppt is overcompensating and then the voltage spikes etc. Some sort of LRC oscillation. It may be fixed with an inductor. A resistor will just waste power
your going to have to crack the thing open and check your cell voltages manually, its going to have a large imbalance I suspect, and reaches a disconnect. none of these inverters like a waved input power. you might have to install a captive style balancer.
At 22:45 ... the battery should not have dropped that much when you turned on the inverter unless the BMS was completely disconnected and the only way I see that happening is if the BMS was in OVP (over voltage protection) mode. Sigh. That battery is such a headache. I think the BMS internal to the battery is just straight-out misconfigured. At 25:01 it looks like the actual battery voltage (with the BMS connected and working) is 54.63. And at 25:11 it hits 55.0V and THAT is when the BMS disconnects on you. So when the battery hits 55.0V the BMS is disconnecting. Meaning that at least one cell in that battery is over-volting. There are only two possibilities: (1) Either it is a 16s pack but the BMS is configured for a 15s pack or. (2) It is a 15s pack and the BMS is configured properly, but the battery case is mislabeled (i.e. it is NOT a 51.2V nominal battery). Lets assume that the battery is balanced. Since the battery is disconnecting at 55.0V, it could very well be a 15s pack and the battery is mislabeled (it is NOT a 51.2V nominal battery). In that case, maybe try charging parameters for a 15s pack instead of a 16s pack: Charge target: 53.25V (3.55V x 15) Float: 50.625V (3.375V x 15) Try that. Those numbers look crazy but if it is a 15s pack then those are the correct numbers. Its worth a shot to see what the battery does. -Matt
The underlying question is, as the system was running along uneventfully for a period of time , what then caused it to suddenly deviate/act differently, and thence will it suddenly crap-out altogether, or catch fire while you're off at the Doctor's, or the store some day? Aloha 🍍
I have a question for victron 75/15 connoisseurs, is it possible to monitor the graph for a longer time, because every time i enter the app, the graph deletes the previous data. Another question.. if I limit the charging current to 7A, and at the same time the refrigerator is on (5A), then only 2A remains for charging the batteries, despite the fact that there is enough solar radiation on the 200W panels. Tank you very much.
The Victron keeps 30 days worth of data. When you push into the graph it will load the history into the app over bluetooth, which usually takes like 5-7 seconds or so. So you shouldn't be losing data per-say. The Victron only keeps a limited amount of high-resolution data but it does retain data on a 30 minute interval going back 30 days. If it isn't showing up try killing the app and restarting it. -Matt
@@junkerzn7312 Thank you very much for your time and kind answer. I later found a solution with reseting the memory. At the trends (graph) sub menu is "CLEAR STORED DATA" option. Now works as it should. Best regards
Just stay with the HAPPY point for that inverter. I worked with a lot of systems and never had a inverter spike like that. But never had that 48V one. Usually 12/24 V ones. I wish I could put your inverter on my adjustable power supply and see what the trip points really are. If you feel like it. Take that 48V all in 1 and use it as inverter only. just put 48V leads to it and 120V leads . see if that works. Leave Victron MPPT in place. I only have 12/24V inverters extra hear. Wish I could ship you a 48V one to try. just too much work. For now just keep inverter happy . you have back up systems. Maybe some company will send a 48V inverter for a review . Their is a lot of different ones on the market today.
Now you got me thinking how to do that. The battery has extra terminals, shouldn't be that difficult. Would like to see the difference between the inverters! Aloha!🤙
Hate to break it, but you are causing your batteries to go even more out of balance.. 56.8 keep them there for at least a couple of weeks cycling That battery has a very under powered passive balancer
I made a spreadsheet of as many battery suppliers recommended settings. I have many customers with several different brands of 16S LiFePO4 batteries and a couple of 15s and 14s arrangements. I worked through a lowest common denominator and suggest a 3.45V per cell for Absorb (1-5 hours depending on bank size) and 3.40 for Float and for those customers Selling excess energy 3.35-3.40 per cell for SellRE setting. So, 55.2 ABS, 54.4 FLT. Andy of the Off Grid Garage did a study of the voltage verses State of Charge. That’s a great set of videos to digest. I enjoy your videos, keep up the great work.
Mahalo for the information brother. I like those values too, and everything does fine right at about those for me. 🤙
For making adjustments on the Victron app you can tap on the number you want to change and then just type it in instead of scrolling to it with the + or -. Example tap on 54.80v and then type 57.6. It is much quicker.
Yes, you can. Victron is the boss...
Hi Bob. Do you happen to have a different invert you can swap out and see if it's still doing this? Another great video. Keep plugging away at it, you'll figure it out. I can't wait till you finally do.
Lower charge voltages will also be easier on your battery. I think 13.6 X 4=54.4 is a very good setting to go with.
I see the inverter behaving itself 😂, so balancing the batteries 🔋 did work. I wish there was some way of monitoring the cells though. Next thing a shame to have so much capacity just running a refrigerator. Put the whole house 🏡 on it and give it a full test run. Love to see how the inverter holds up.
ive learned allot from watching your videos so thank you i mean it thank you
My pleasure Jimmy🤙
I'm sure at those higher voltages the BMS is disconnecting. It should be impossible to see that voltage drop so far at inverter switch on with the battery cells connected. So you either have a weak cell that is going over voltage and triggering the BMS disconnect or maybe your battery pack only has 15 cells in it? 15 cells would give a fully charged voltage of 54.75.
This was suggested in the previous video. A look inside is needed.
The 4w you can see is the power required for the BMS there is no absorption or charging and possibly no balancing is the BMS is passive. The charge mosfets are open because one cell is over voltage. The crazy chart is the charge controller injecting the output into the inverter as the charge mosfet closes and opens below the reconnect voltage. The new powerqueen 48v is only 54 +- 0.75V. The 54V you are charging to is perfect. A higher charge voltage will result in a shorter absorption time but does not matter with solar storage its only good if you are short on time.
Ok Bob 👌
You have backups so no big problem, if it's happy running at 54v so be it...
It loves 54v thats for sure. Been leaving it at that...for now! Aloha!🤙
Wow that was Interesting wish I could see the values on a 24v system which is what I have. Identical components. So enjoy your videos Bob cheers.
Mahalo brother🤙
At what voltage is the balancer kicking in at that Power Queen? I do not think you are hig enough at 54.4V. What is Power Queen saying about balancing voltage?
The way the voltage jumps up, it’s clear the BMS has disconnected the battery.
For large voltage swings when booting up that inverter, seems like a loose connection of a super high load at startup. A bad battery cable crimp somewhere or a serious need for a pre-charge resistor might be in order. Or just replace the inverter with a Victron Mutliplus II. I know you want to. ;-)
I have the same issue with my WZRELB 24v inverter, as well as my new ac inverter the Xija CNSWIPOWER 48v 2000w.
Ironically, I’ve got my charge controller set to 54.4 too which keeps the inverter cruising. What I’ve noticed is that it only happens when (1) the battery is near 100%, (2) the inverter load (heavy) drops off. (3) the panels are producing 1000+ watts. There is a sudden spike and the inverter over volts, beep beep, beep. Since the battery is full there’s nowhere for the charge controller to put the watts so it spikes before it can correct itself. These inexpensive inverters are trying to protect all battery types. The higher voltage of the lifepo4 vs lead acid makes the sweet spot not perfect for either battery type.
my victron multiplus will do the same thing, though it throws an error saying imput voltage wave error or some such thing. this happens when both the charge and discharge turns off on my home built 300ah bank.
I think you should disconnect the battery for a couple of weeks and set factory charge settings and let the battery balance out. But you have to do it for a min of two weeks more would be better.
The inverter is the part that in practice sets the highest limit. I think downgrading 0.5 Volt to 1.0 Volt from the manufacturer's data is close to solution. It is important to avoid the inverter giving a fault warning.
Another comment further down writes that newer batteries have a lower recommended charging current
check all connections for corrosion that may cause voltage spikes
It would be good to see what the currents are from the battery to the inverter and the effective current from the solar to the inverter when the inverter is switched on. It seems like the battery has switched off and the mppt is feeding the capacitors of the inverter which has a high inrush current. The mppt is overcompensating and then the voltage spikes etc. Some sort of LRC oscillation. It may be fixed with an inductor. A resistor will just waste power
your going to have to crack the thing open and check your cell voltages manually, its going to have a large imbalance I suspect, and reaches a disconnect. none of these inverters like a waved input power. you might have to install a captive style balancer.
Shouldn't the battery self balancing with the BMS no mater the voltage?
Great video 😊
At 22:45 ... the battery should not have dropped that much when you turned on the inverter unless the BMS was completely disconnected and the only way I see that happening is if the BMS was in OVP (over voltage protection) mode. Sigh. That battery is such a headache. I think the BMS internal to the battery is just straight-out misconfigured.
At 25:01 it looks like the actual battery voltage (with the BMS connected and working) is 54.63. And at 25:11 it hits 55.0V and THAT is when the BMS disconnects on you.
So when the battery hits 55.0V the BMS is disconnecting. Meaning that at least one cell in that battery is over-volting. There are only two possibilities:
(1) Either it is a 16s pack but the BMS is configured for a 15s pack or.
(2) It is a 15s pack and the BMS is configured properly, but the battery case is mislabeled (i.e. it is NOT a 51.2V nominal battery).
Lets assume that the battery is balanced. Since the battery is disconnecting at 55.0V, it could very well be a 15s pack and the battery is mislabeled (it is NOT a 51.2V nominal battery). In that case, maybe try charging parameters for a 15s pack instead of a 16s pack:
Charge target: 53.25V (3.55V x 15)
Float: 50.625V (3.375V x 15)
Try that. Those numbers look crazy but if it is a 15s pack then those are the correct numbers. Its worth a shot to see what the battery does.
-Matt
The underlying question is, as the system was running along uneventfully for a period of time , what then caused it to suddenly deviate/act differently, and thence will it suddenly crap-out altogether, or catch fire while you're off at the Doctor's, or the store some day? Aloha 🍍
I still think inverter problem. Swap with a good known inverter to test. That will give us the answer. Like to see a Cnswipower inverter on there.
Will throw another inverter on it just to see...for sure🤙
I have a question for victron 75/15 connoisseurs,
is it possible to monitor the graph for a longer time,
because every time i enter the app, the graph deletes the previous data.
Another question.. if I limit the charging current to 7A,
and at the same time the refrigerator is on (5A), then only 2A remains for charging the batteries, despite the fact that there is enough solar radiation on the 200W panels.
Tank you very much.
The Victron keeps 30 days worth of data. When you push into the graph it will load the history into the app over bluetooth, which usually takes like 5-7 seconds or so. So you shouldn't be losing data per-say. The Victron only keeps a limited amount of high-resolution data but it does retain data on a 30 minute interval going back 30 days.
If it isn't showing up try killing the app and restarting it.
-Matt
@@junkerzn7312
Thank you very much for your time and kind answer.
I later found a solution with reseting the memory.
At the trends (graph) sub menu is "CLEAR STORED DATA" option.
Now works as it should.
Best regards
Just stay with the HAPPY point for that inverter. I worked with a lot of systems and never had a inverter spike like that. But never had that 48V one. Usually 12/24 V ones. I wish I could put your inverter on my adjustable power supply and see what the trip points really are. If you feel like it. Take that 48V all in 1 and use it as inverter only. just put 48V leads to it and 120V leads . see if that works. Leave Victron MPPT in place. I only have 12/24V inverters extra hear. Wish I could ship you a 48V one to try. just too much work. For now just keep inverter happy . you have back up systems. Maybe some company will send a 48V inverter for a review . Their is a lot of different ones on the market today.
Now you got me thinking how to do that. The battery has extra terminals, shouldn't be that difficult. Would like to see the difference between the inverters! Aloha!🤙
Float is the best part of any charging system then the solar panels use use the surplus energy
🤙
yeah ive noticed each battery companies batteries are a little different in voltages lol my battery is full at 13.4v and likes it around 3.35 per cell
🤙
Bad inverter, possibly a bad mosfet inside.
Hate to break it, but you are causing your batteries to go even more out of balance..
56.8 keep them there for at least a couple of weeks cycling
That battery has a very under powered passive balancer
hey bob
Please bring inverter to your test bench and test it on a different battery to see if it's having the same problem if not you may have a dead cell