Hacking an EV Battery From a £90,000 Car - DIY Vehicle to Grid
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- Опубликовано: 6 июл 2024
- There's a crisis on the horizon, when all of the EV batteries being manufactured, reach the end of their usable date as an EV Battery, they're expensive, energy intensive, and complicated to recycle. But imagine if there was another way? Imagine if we could crack the code on these batteries, and connect up EV Batteries to the grid, or to power a house with stored renewable energy? Well, let's give it a go, how hard CAN it be?! Grab some popcorn, and sit tight. We're going to the future! 🤖
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i don't mind watching a nordvpn shout out for grabbing the wire diagram in the US of A
A really RUclipsr
Have you considered Patreon? I think the cut is better!
Search “topbms High voltage”
They do a BMS that has 16s slave units (you can add as many as you like), so you can easily get up to 400v and the added bonus is it will talk to the solax. The only down side is the price, looking at about £750-£1000 for the full BMS kit. I do have one with 2 slave BMS units ;)
Another irritating RUclipsr who thinks the word; 'SOMETHING' is spelled with a 'K' at the end !!! Grow up !!! There is no such word as "SOMETHINK" !!!!!!!!!!!!
"Your comfort zone is a beautiful place, but nothings ever gonna grow there" would make a great t shirt
😅👍🏼
Yes! It's so true, and a wonderful way of putting it.
I am sure we can make it work Cory! Let's work on it a bit together!🙌
Absolutely we can! Thanks for your help so far, and I look forwards to the collab on part 2!
@@corymac That should make things interesting!
Dala helped me get my 55kwh Tesla battery going, a true gentleman!
Yessss! Glad to see a real world demo of this in the UK.
I'm about to get started on an install using Dala's Emulator too.
Can get 77kWh kia ev6 battery for £2k, ipace 90kWh for £4k, kia 64kWh for £3k, tesla 55kWh lfp for £4k, tesla 77kWh NMC/NCA for £4k also.....its a whole new world of storage.
This is what we should be promoting.
@corymac over the last few years I've been discussing 2nd life EV battery utilisation with a specialist EV engineering firm locally to me. They have a relationship with JLR and have a warehouse of ipace batteries like these, plus original development batteries that have never been in cars etc.
They developed plug and play external battery monitoring solutions for the OEMs in service and recycling scenarios and they know these batteries inside out.
Do you fancy having a chat with them and I about how we offer these commercially for customers with suitable risk management etc?
I love these quietly spoken electronics engineers, unassuming geniuses...
One word is not enough to describe your determination to solve this puzzle! Tenacious, persevering, determined, resolute, purposeful, dogged, single-minded, tireless, indefatigable, patient, unflagging, untiring, insistent, importunate, unrelenting describe you better! Well done for not giving up. Hope someone who knows the intricacies of the particular program developed for the Jaguar car battery can divulge what you need to know. Good luck!
Thanks Bryan! We’ve since cracked the code! I’ll tell you about it soon! 😁👍🏼👍🏼
It’s refreshing to see a spark taking an active interest in the deep dive side of things, but importantly staying humble about the fundamental differences between electrics and electronics without implying that it’s the same thing to those that don’t know any better - well done and best of luck getting this to work 👍
Thanks mate! I did a course in electronics, and have delved into some basics, I know enough to know, that I don’t know it!
@@corymac fair play to you you - it's a diverse field - I am an EE but don't do it as my day job so there's swathes of stuff I find interesting but have little expertise in - everyday's a learning day as the saying goes! A bit like a GP attempting to do brain surgery by qualification and watching a few videos 😆 - I did an entire module on CAN but really despise software and coding, though I can scrape by if I really need to (e.g. using Arduino for Open Energy Monitor) - it's also a case of not re-inventing the wheel so you'll be breaking ground with this for the benefit of others by reverse engineering it 🙂
@@corymac The more you learn, the more you realise how much you don't know
You probably know more about the Ipace than the average Jaguar tech after this video... can't wait for Pt 2.
Best clip ever on this channel! Why? Because this is far beyond the usual small talk content and it shows what power we can unleash in so many ways. First a lot of brain power is needed, then lots of battery power and energy is unleashed and after all it's for the renewable power of the sun. Keep going! Cheers from a HV battery and solar system builder in Germany.
Thanks man. Much appreciated, next year I have a few very interesting out of the box projects coming up. Just planning and saving up time and money
EU should legislate that all EV batteries be capable of reuse as a home battery with standard controllers, connectors, protocols etc.
I wish 🤤
They won't have to....this project will have decoded them all by then! Lol😂
I would like to have a standard interface for helping handicapped people. Can't use the indicator lights? No problem, just wire it up to a keypad.
Have you thought about the interlock loop? (The 2 little pins on the big orange connector)
These 2 little pins need to be shorted to make EV-systems or the battery work.
Its a safety feature, if a module breaks or the car is in a crash then those 2 little pins wont be shorted and disables all the high-voltage systems! Including the big contactors inside the battery!
Are you certain you’re not plugged into the CAN’T port? 😂👊
10/10 comment
The BMS ECU will go to sleep because it's not seeing activity on the CAN bus. You'll need to record a log from the iPace and play it back through SavvyCAN in a loop. Then turn off the IDs one by one until you find the network management frame it's looking for to keep it awake. I don't have any experience with the iPace CAN, but I've done extensive reverse-engineering on Teslas systems, and this is how they work.
That’s exactly what we’re doing in the video 😎👍🏼
@@corymac Well, I missed the part where you explained this then, You seemed to spend a lot o f time trying to figure out why the BMS only spit out CAN for a short period on power up. I also never saw you isolate the CAN frame ID needed to keep the BMS awake (the network management frame).
Wow Phil, Good to see you here on this side of the Atlantic.
Most people will strip the battery and put the modules into 24v or 48v (as close as possible). Then just use standard solar electronics.
What can you do in 400v form?
Electrocute yourself?
If your dog bites the 400v cable, it's brain will fry.
@@joeberginc7415 400v is substantially more efficient. If you aren't qualified to handle 400v, you probably aren't qualified to open the battery in any event, and even a tiny 48v pack can still burn your house down! I have a fully intact Tesla Model S pack that I am using this exact way, and it works great and is safe. By keeping the pack in it's original envelope, ts also safely contained in case something goes wrong. Using the original BMS instead of some hacked in thing is also much safer.
The spirit of Louis Rossman in action is a joy to behold, hack on! You crazy kids!
The Rossmann would be proud!
Yes indeed
Louis Rossman is all about the right to repair and stopping the companies from locking you out of seeing the analytic's they are collecting from you without your permission with their rapist mentality!
The spirit of Jehugarcia or Will Prowse they have been doing this for years. Jehu has been driving a 60's VW van on recycled tesla batteries for 11 years and DIY power walls for 6 yrs everyone should have one to recharge their EV with., Also watch Rich rebuilds for recycling EVs
@@crzy11000 Thanks for the tip! I'll take a look.
For me it's your best video so far , awesome content mate.
Cory being a geek is cool as a 70 year old retired electrician/ maintenance engineer I have solved many problems thinking outside of the box . Good old RUclipsrs like you still inspired me in retirement .I have leant basic electronics and knew about needing a 60 ohm resistance on the can bus . Can't wait for the follow up video great project
Thanks Alan! 🤓👍🏼
Cory..you're my kind of sparky. Love your approach to things, and the fact you're not afraid to experiment and learn new things. Top-man.
Thanks, Steve!
Every HV plug will have a HV interlock that will need to be shorted ( it is a loop that connects all the plugs together. Also remember this is a car, when a car crashes and the airbags deploy the RCM module will send a CAN message to open contactors, additional to this legislation requires that there is a separate wire from the RCM that carries a square wave signal to give the all clear!
Inspiring! The thousands of CAN messages are more than likely communication errors, caused by the HPCM trying to communicate with every other control unit that is missing on the car i.e ABS, BCM, and especially immobiliser.
Thanks Tim!
Looks like good progress so far. One note on the relays when you open the doors, that's probably the pre-charge relay getting the vehicle HV system ready for key on by the time the driver is in the seat. The BMS will, most likely, enforce a maximum duty cycle on this relay so once you get it to close the BMS won't let you re-close it until the resistor or PTC element used for pre-charging has cooled off enough.
If you're looking at CAN frames on the network to the battery you might want to take a particular interest in frames with the ID 0x10A, 0x10B and 0x10C.
Thanks mate! Will investigate
We are missing an ignition on signal, Also we would like to understand if 0x012 has any interesting signals for the BECM. If you reckon you could help - info@oyelectrical.com. An email would be awesome 🙌
On some cars, the battery does a handshake with another ECU in the car, which includes car-specific info like the VIN, so replaying the data from the car may not work on that battery.
Interesting, thanks Mike!
You should be able to speak to some EV recycle people about the feasibility of swapping these Jag batteries and what it involves. If you can do a straight swap, then that implies VIN/coding information between donors and cars is not relevant.
As the battery is comprised of smaller packs rather than individual cells, I'd be tempted to disassemble the pack from it's protective outer shell and repurpose the individual packs. Which may well prove a lot easier than stripping the Tesla-style packs containing thousands of individual cells, also eliminating their nasty communications issues.
Just a thought. 👍
On some EVs there is a so-called continuity wire that runs parallel to the main high voltage/ high power conductors. That continuity wire must show that all connectors are, indeed, connected. I took apart a NIssan Leaf in 2014 and the only way to get the motor to run again was to connect every part of the original car (motor/batter/charger/dashboard etc) - then the VCU decided it was OK to flick the internal contactors on. LMK if you want a link to that video.
@@Zodliness You are right. I think they will spend a lot of time going nowhere. My biggest fear is that they will assume that they can put 400+V in to the solar inverter. Maybe they've already thought about this but if they haven't it's real important to know that the impedance of a solar array outputting 400 or 500 volts is NOT the same as a battery outputting 400+ volts.
I'm a Brit living in Romania,
I came across an interesting company here repurposing used EV batteries.
They make systems of all sizes, from small systems for off grid to large containerised systems for 3 phase commercial use.
I have fad Jaguar and Landrover cars for thirty years, and I had an Aquaintance that programmed the ECU's. The Eproms are separetley programmed by different people, and put together on the motherboard. The system has both a high speed and low speed Can Bus. When you open the car, the ecu starts to talk to the modules and pressing the start button sets another handshake in operation. The front left hand footwell fusebox is programmed to the dashboard. the front ecu is connected to the rear spare wheel fuseboc by fibre optics, Orange cable. Cambus are white cables. The system needs 13.2 volts to work properly, nine volts throughs a wobbly on start up. The rear seat footwell fuse boxes double up from the front fuse box. The Ecu's have Optical fuses on the inputs. One needs to follow the staring sequence to fault find the system.
Thanks mate! I’ll pass it along to the gang
WOW, what a vid, what a topic, what a fantastic idea. if ALL car manufacturers made a simple unit (or 3rd parties) to go from a old under performance battery, so it can be used like this with ANY inverter, what a way to recycle and reuse. I was hooked from the first few seconds till the end.... bring on part 2 asap.
Add it to the list of things I wish happened, that will probably never happen. But we can try and help the open source community crack it without manufacturers! 🤩👍🏼
@@corymac Well depends if OEMs move more to a model of doing stuff themselves it would be a easy option todo.
I'll do my part and will try to get our battery team to make this possible.
Some third-party manufacturers already do. I spoke with a cousin working at a car recycling facility and a lot of EV batteries from scraped cars are sold for second-life purposes such as hooked up to a solar array.
Someone pointed out the coolant loops and other connectors. See if that pile of bits has the connectors and if they have sense resistors in them, the battery ecu might be booting and checking presence of all its ports before it will take a ‘close contractors’ message. If it’s JLR they aren’t big on securing messages across components, so should take a raw message and just execute it.
Good spot Ian. We’ve managed to nab Dala, him combined with Chris is proving quite a lethal combo. There are HVIL loops I’ve since discovered too on the connections.
Remember it’s all thrown together quick in the factory and serviced by parts swappers, so the code will have checks in it to make sure everything is nominal before it will take the commands that ‘do’ things. All of this needs to be inside the domain of that battery ecu. Also if it’s anything like Tesla, it will keep the contractors engaged for like 15-30 mins after you put it in park. Let’s it dc-dc the 12v back up to a decent voltage for standby, and watch RUclips while your Chinese is being made. The pyro fuse will have been commanded to blow in the crash, have you located it? Hope it’s not on the bottom of the pack?
@@corymacit will also be doing IR tests internally as well?
@@IanFarquharson2 Actually that's a good point, the battery was from a crashed car!
@@IanFarquharson2But he's measuring 400VDC. I didn't think that could happen if the pyro fuse is gone. Essentially splits the battery in half.
lol I was thinking "why are you even bothering with the CAN system, just hot wire it and let another system go the thing...
400V out: check
temperature: nope
cell voltage: nope
Yeah no how about we don't write off the whole house :)
Troubleshooting is so much fun. It’s like you hit a roadblock after a roadblock, frustration to no end and then, bam, it starts working and you end up with that happy face like when you guys managed to get the contactors to engage. It’s so satisfying.
Exactly!
"Troubleshooting fucking sucks ass."
there fixed your typo
It’s like you hit a roadblock after a roadblock, frustration to no end you know you're on the right track ask google for help and nobody seems to have the faintes idea what you're talking about, nobody in human history has ever faced this problem... and then, bam you get it, and then it is so much fun!
I get your original comment, but good god how I wish I could avoid trouble shooting...
yet... I don't?
since I learn more when things don't work rather then "it just works" 😅
This leaves me wondering if disassembling the main pack and repurposing the individual cells packs would be easier in the long run. You'd be able to optimise the packs final output stage voltages to requirements, simultaneously eliminating those three complex vehicle cam bus modifications in the process. It might also allow you to weed out any potentially deficient/defective cells in an otherwise reusable pack. When being used for lower charge/discharge applications like solar storage, there's little requirement for an integrated liquid cooling system. Thanks for sharing. 👍
This is my opinion, I could be wrong. 😉
I much prefer the battery packs their design as their rebust and had a quality control.
You cant recreate the same level on your own what you see here.
What he said 👆😁
An EV RUclipsr I watch has did this. He’s Glyn Hudson, he also added his own ASHP and converted his env200 to an EV camper. Knows about bms/cambus requirements etc. Think he used a Leaf battery for his home. He’s also a Fully Charged friend!
Thanks! 🤩
And one of the founders of Open Energy Monitor 👍
Glyn is a wiz, but Dala is your man for this as he started it. I can see he's already made contact. You'll have this cracked in no time.
Hi Cory, I am a high voltage technician with Audi. I would say that you are missing the control unit for the battery, on Audi its called J840. Battery management ECU, this communicates directly to the battery. Great video by the way mate.
Thanks mate, I’ll take that on board! 😁👍🏼
this video is great !!! everyone wants to do this .... and why not, im still waiting for the ev charger that uses the car battery to run the house...
Me too!!! Thanks mate
Specific models of the Tesla Cybertruck can already be used to power a house
Ford f150 lightning does this.
If you search for Vehicle to Load (V2L) you'll find a bunch of EVs which can function as a portable "generator" in the event of a power cut.
Ambition strikes used an F150 for cheaper than a solar battery bank on their off grid house.ruclips.net/video/chyGAlFTxVo/видео.htmlsi=gFA09hZH7dKUOivs
Very interesting project. I was thinking, an EV's 400V battery and the EV's motor-inverter should be able to create a nice 3-phase 400VAC at 50Hz. Or a single phase 230VAC at 50Hz, when hacked correctly. All needed power-electronics are there. The biggest problem would be that car manufacturers will go to great lengths to prevent the end user from tinkering with their product. I hope you'll succeed.
I'd probably disassemble that battery, discard all electronics, assemble in a configuration that would work for me, and put in a BMS system, charge controller and inverter I can trust. But yea, would be super cool if you can re-use the car's BMS. Good luck. I'm looking forward to the next part.
Modern cars have a pyro fuse to prevent the car from turning over after a crash and the airbags going off. Maybe one of those fuses you pointed out need replacing? Love the concept Cory boy
We will be checking this amongst a list of great suggestions we’ve had. Thanks mate 😁😁
can bus has nothing to do with HV bus in that sense
Would it be affected by the battery hanging on the wall? Should it be flat?
I will also look into this " pyro fuse" safety lock. Sometimes it's an electronic safety lock if the car was in a bigger accident. Mostly if more airbags are deployed.
This is the best video for Cory so far, I just love this geeky stuff
Thanks Dave!
The easiest solution is to strip the existing BMS as it is looking at too many things, and install
One that only looks at temperature and maybe module voltage, to cut out when short circuit, then it is easy to reset not that CAN none sense, simplicity is the key, once you have the simplified contractor control it is easy to connect to the inverter
I agree! More of this please.
I can't really tell from the video if you did. But in all Power plug diodes there is a H VIL circuit. it runs around all 400V plugs and must be unbroken.
We found that, still no luck 😁
@@corymac I have on a Nissan battery had to send a "wake up" bit before an ok can be sent on the canbus. so it is not certain that it is enough to send "ok" and "switch on contactor".
AMAZING...!!!!!!!!!!!!!EOL,s solder,error messages . Loved it all. I wonder if its reading that the battery is mounted vertically rather than horozontally that its reading an error?. Crack on Cory.
Thanks mate!!! As far as we can tell, that’s not built into the battery
Hands down the BEST video from your channel and about car battery reuse overall. I support Dala's EV repair long term on Patreon, but there was never such a great video as this one. Thanks for the work. You have the best hobby from my perspective!
Wow, thank you! Much appreciated 🤩🔋🌲
People like you are leading the way to a perfect reuse of large battery packs. Plz push on and consider making kits at the end of your adventure for others to reuse large batterys as well.
I’m publishing my findings and code for free online 😃👍🏼
@@corymac great start,, but code i fall apart so hard on code, my thought was a sellable for you and a plug and play for the viewer of yours.
@@joshuaspires9252plug and play would mean any faults would land back at Cory's door and I doubt he'd like that, not to mention the liability he'd be taking on. Much better to release it openly so that the learning-pains element is gone, folk just need to get a competent & LOCAL electronics engineer in to implement it.
This is a legendary endeavor and an amazing look into trying to tap into an electric vehicle Controller Area Network. Awesome video guys, really impressive.
This should be the first option for any EV battery once the car has finished with it, alternatively, being used for grid balancing.
Couldn’t agree more, unlikely to happen though
Err.... "second life" batteries are already a thing. Been done for quite a while.
Probably the first option is replacing dead packs in existing ipace’s.
@@martinw245 But not with ALL batteries, which was my point 🙂
@Jimages_uk
I've no idea what the percentage is, to be honest, but it's obviously not 100%. At this point in time, "all" batteries going on to a "second life" is probably not feasible as it depends on so many factors, like demand, etc.
But yes, "second life" is clearly something that should and undoubtedly will be expanded.
You can cut the CAN wires and make a transparent gateway. This way you can deduce where the signals are going from/to.
I worked for a company that hacked cars for handicapped people. Our device was injecting messages like the car horn, indicator lights and other secondary controls while actively filtering the original messages.
CAN messages often have one or multiple counters, each frame increments this count up and often the last count is skipped. 0xC, 0xE, 0x0, 0x1 etc.
CAN messages also use CRC as a checksum on each message. You can use CRC RevEng to reverse engineer these crc, sometimes this is impossible and you just need to hardcode a LookUpTable.
Hopefully you don't need to got his deep into CAN, and just replaying the messages will be sufficient.
You will definitely need to plug in all the HVIL contacts of the battery. The big connectors at the top are more than likely to have those and the battery will definitely avoid electrocuting someone if it sees those connectors are unplugged.
Absolutely awesome, I take my hat off to you guys. And to whoever your end client is, thanks to them for supporting the experiment - like you say, it's got to be the way forwards in terms of recycling and reuse. And as for the Tesla joke... 😂
Your comfort around 400vdc is rather worrying 😂 I would 100% use some opto isolators in line to those CAN interfaces. The last thing you want is any ground loops. In terms of the battery not responding it may be worth checking that a serial number for the main ECU is not expected by the BMS. That is just the kind of thing the manufacturers would do so you have to pay a dealer to change the battery. To help it would be a good idea to put the CAN messages on a Live / Google drive so we can see them. Some type of lockout or security code may be why the battery BMS is just going back to sleep.
It is isolated every time we’re working near it, there is a master fireman’s switch which is a kill all 😁👍🏼
I’ve been sharing the data and findings on Dala The Creators Discord & GitHub 😁👍🏼
@@corymac Your a lot more relaxed than me, I used to work on submarine DC power systems and have seen what 400+vdc can do. It's not pretty. I didn't know there was another isolator elsewhere on the pack as the switches are normally in the module. Your braver than me, I would have insulated those pins just to be safe. DC at that potential makes phase to phase AC contact look wimpy ! 🤯
Thanks... will have a look at the data. I didn't see a link to it, will have another look.
Thanks for the interesting video 👍 I'm sure it can be done. It's a shame Jack from EVTV isn't about anymore as he would have been your man as far as proprietary can bus and protocols went.
Of course we're all trained in HV & electrical safety. I used to work on 50+ kV HV systems. A friend of mine I used to work with had his wedding ring finger blown off due to a charged capacitor...! So although we're relaxed, it's not because we're blaze !
@@obbardc Blew his finger off ??? Wow .. reminds me of my early college years when whe used to charge up a big electrolytic capacitor with a mega and throw it to someone telling them to catch 😅 I think over 30 years I have the best memories back on the tools and out on site. It becomes a lot less fun when your stuck driving desks !
I have so many of your videos to catch up on. This was honestly so interesting, I hope that you can find the answers and get this working, awesome video Cory!
Thanks Richie!! We appreciate the support!
Possibly a battery orientation interlock. The battery is vertical and could be a battery shut off for rollover events? Like a MEMS gyro?
Been waiting for this one to drop, awesome thanks Cory… 😍❤️
My pleasure!! More to come soon
Can't wait to see part two!
I'm wanting to do the same, but with a Polestar battery and a FoxESS inverter.
Keep up the good work
Sounds cool! 👌
I can’t believe there are already polestar batteries piling up 🤯
@@corymac you can find pretty much anything!
The main issue is like you've found, doing the integration is a difficult step.
The big question here for me is: how in the world did you procure a 90kwh battery from a broken Jag??
Nice tinkering, love the process!
Awesome content Cory. Raw, warts and all - soooo refreshing to see real world content. 🤓👍🏻
Glad you enjoyed it!
This is brilliant, in Japan they have been doing this with prius batteries to power grocery stores. The market for this type of solution is in its infancy but will explode in time. Looking forward to the next video.
I’d expect nothing less from the country that issued a formal apology for the bullet train running 35 seconds late 🤣
not familiar with the jag battery, has i got a pyrofuse in the contactor bank? could be blown and bms not seeing a total battery voltage
All the fuses we could see were in tact, but it’s worth another check!
@@corymac Automotive Pyro fuses are not necessarily obvious in appearance. To all intents they can look like a solenoid or a relay, the connection is hidden inside - the pyro bit blows out the connection and you may not be able to see that it's blown. The clue might be heavy duty terminals either side/end and test it for continuity. Location in the contactor bank?
I used to do this in testing chambers. We'd use the batteries for the thermal mass to test heat pump systems on while charging and discharging the battery in road load simulations. We used manufacturer provided DBC files that decoded the can bits and a logic controller that tricked it into thinking the car was there. All privided by the manufacturer
This is the future that everyone talks of, but it’s the first time I’ve seen it being attempted to be done.
Good on ye fella.
Great idea. ❤ I live in the desert of Baja Mexico totally off grid. I took the batteries out of 4 SMART cars. Each was 53V nominal. I connected them all in in parallel and hooked them to a 48V Schneider Inverter/charger. Been running 5 buildings and AC for 8 years. Have 28 solar panels. Since I went parallel I do not use BMS.
Oh wow! That’s awesome mate 😁 - I’d love to see it!
This is a great idea. If I knew that I could take a failed battery from my EV when I had to buy a new expensive one, I would have little hesitation to buy an EV. This should be a standard option you can buy for all EV batteries. Reuse is better than recycle.
Great work! I foolishly bought an IDbuzz thinking you could plug it in and use the vehicle battery to power my home. Turns out you can but nobody actually makes a charger that allows you to plug in and do this. One is in development but it’s going to have a chadamo plug on it which renders it useless for my application. Keep up the good work.
Check out point guard energy. They are working on a V2X CCS (US) based bidirectional DC home charger... I don't think it works with any vehicles yet, but at least something is happening in the space.
I have heard similar before, manufacturers aren’t rushing on it for some reason 🤔
I imagine whoever does it first will sell like crazy
Part 2 is going to be epic
This is an excellent video I can't wait for the next update. Hope once all this is figured out can share with the community how this was done.
Excellent challenge to take up.
I hope so too! Thanks mate 😁👍🏼
Some EVs have a pyro fuse inside the battery pack. You mentioned that the battery came from a crash damaged car, I wonder if the pyrotechnics fuse went off disabling the battery 🤷♂️
Ok Cory, this is truly fascinating & of real interest to me, so excellent work. I can't believe you commandeered a 'working vehicle' to debug all this, so cool, this is important research and discovery right here! 👍
The magic of RUclips eh 😉😉
Great video I look forward to seeing it working.
I’m sure the problem will be something simple like a tilt switch 😂
We all want to see you doing the 'can-can' dance in part 2.
🤣😂😂😂
Brilliant to watch Cory, I am sure you will get it going soon.
kudos man! this content is just amazing, can not wait for part 2!
Another point Cory, after re-running the video, I saw your PSU is supplying 12 volts, although that’s nominal voltage it is too low. LVB batteries run at about 13.2 volts, Charging would be at about 14.5 volts. Also note there could be a tracking control unit that has its own battery.
I don’t think the voltage is affecting it so much as the amperage, a lot of the EV modules will go as low as 9v
its on the wall wrong position not level protected maybe
Good work, I was waiting for someone to realise the potential of the battery array from used EVs.
It's amazing just how complex car systems have become - and why even the main dealers cannot fix them if they go wrong :-(
Awesome video, very cool project. I understood most everything you guys said. Definitely want to use every lithium battery for as long as it holds a charge.
Thanks mate, totally agree 😁
cool to see those in the industry looking towards these kind of upcycling projects. some of those all in one solutions are eye wartering expensive. have you had a look at those DIY LFP battery backup systems? like the Seplos Mason, seems like a good option for those that want a cost effective soltuion & the safety of LFP cells, also a lot less reverse engineering.
Thanks mate! We’re trying out best
The one major problem with the idea of using old lithium batteries is that once a battery drops below 80% of it's original capacity; they start to lose capacity much more rapidly and below 70% they are generally falling off the capacity cliff and the risk of having a shorted or failed cell increases exponentially. You might be able to eek a few hundred more charge cycles out of some batteries and chemistries but once they are at or below 70% of the original capacity, they are basically junk and one should be looking at replacement even in an offgrid/solar storage application.
Isn't the SoH a record of the weakest cell in ANY of the packs in the battery? If so, then wouldn't it make sense to simply replace the pack that contains the rogue cell - assuming that it's just one pack affected.
I reckon you'd need the specific signal, from the scrapped iPace.
When Nissan Leaf batteries are swapped, I believe they have to go through a matching process, to be recognised and usable.
I think we may have sussed it!!! Keep tuned for part 2 🔋🔋🔋
I'm not related to JRL but, I used to work for a company that was using the modules out of this car.
Each module 3S4P Lithium Polymer module does not have its own BMS.
The important pin connections if you need to reconfigure the pack or add you own BMS?
Each module has a 0V, 3.7V, 7.4V, 11.1V and two pairs going to 10K Thermistors for reading batter temperature.
The bus bars are connected to each module with M6 bolts, ofcourse you already have all the bolts and connectors inside the pack.
A WORD OF WARNING if you want to read the cell voltages using the connector, each tap is connected to the cells by a really thin flexible PCB if you short across a cell that will burn the trace, its not fun cutting open a module to repair!
Regarding that thin internal flexible pcb in each module, how much current can be drawn out of each cell when an attached BMS sees that it needs balancing? The jag bms seems to limit it to circa 100 ma which rules out most capacitative smart bms’s
I have some diy bms boards (By Stuart Pittaway) which have a suitably low current rating, but was wondering if you know what can be taken from each of the voltage sensing wires that a bms needs to see. The each of the flex pub tracks that read cell voltages within the modules seem to have a surface mount component that could be a fuse so could easily be blown if they are shorted while someone is trying to configure 5 modules to give a 15S pack for a 48 volt system like I am trying to do.
This is a sick project! I hope more people try things like this
Cory, the I-pace is particularly sensitive to the 12v battery being in good health. I know I have one! It might be worth upping the 12v to 13v to be sure. I had mine just refuse to start, i.e. the main contacter wouldn't activate. After half an hour the 12v battery had recovered to over 12.5v and suddenly the contactor went clunk! Everything was OK after that. They are very sensitive to poor 12v battery condition!
You will have to write out the heatingcooling circuitry on the CANBus of course. The LG and JLR engineers have written code to protect the battery at all costs! I believe that Tesla are already using old/substandard EV cells in their Powerwalls. The cells inside the I-Pace are LG Cem cells and are used in quite a few home batteries, so when you get past the CANbus problems the rest should be plain sailing!!!
Great video. Look forward to part two and getting it working 🙂
Coming soon! Thanks mate!
I think it has been mentioned already, but that battery needs to think it is talking to the ECU/ BCM with a matching VIN. and that ecu / bcm might also need to have the "airbag / seatbelt charges blown" codes cleared so the battery thinks it is safe again.. along with a new high voltage pyro fuse.
You might be better served seeing if you can get the battery to accept a charge first as that requires less things to be correct on the canbus. As you demonstrated in the working car, the contactors would not engage until all the doors were closed, your foot was on the brake, and you hit the start button - as well as the car sensing the key - none of which the battery on the wall will see. None of this is required for the battery to accept charge however. Getting the system to accept charge would eliminate some of the potential causes for it to not engage the contactors - giving you a smaller set of variables to work with.
There should be an interlock connection on all of the battery connections for motor and charge port etc I would assume these would all need to be shorted out. The interlock shuts down the battery if and cable is broken discounted for safety
Good observation! We’ve since found the HVIL loops on the contacts, that and a few other issues! Part 2 coming soon 😁👍🏼
scrolled through youtube,
seeing this,
immediatly knows,
only with super power of dalathegreat!
He’s involved too now! 😁👍🏼
Saw a U.S. based RUclipsr who repurposed a BMW battery - but he tore it down to the cell level and added a new BMS rather than try to hack the built-in BMS. He did succeed but this is cooler!
Jag have spent I presume millions in R&D to get this perfect, I wanna keep it as it is! 😁
i have got Mitsubishi outlander batteries, and the electronics on there are so much more expensive (better) than the cheaper webshop alternatives
Great stuff Cory, and well done for not digging yourself into a hole with that working I-Pace, the opportunities for blow ups are high on this one. In the past ive always used OEM CAN interfaces but im going to get one of those £25.00 amazon ones and have a go with SavvyCAN that I did not know about. Re the wiring/connector a pair of green 10 way rising clamp headers plug/socket may work well for you rather than committing to hard wiring! Looking forward to part two.
It worked so well!! For the money it’s definitely worth having!
Always good to see you here Michael!
@@corymac I like been educated and entertained at the same time
Cory: If you fancy a comparatively straightforward project once you've solved this, we've got a 2016 Leaf which is worth less as a car than its components. We'd love to turn it into a home battery but as a DIYer 400V DC is a bit outside my comfort zone! If you're interested let me know.
PS: my wife bakes amazing chocolate muffins and I used to be a barista at a well known coffee chain (no, not that one) if that in any way swings it 😋
Sounds cool, ping me an email! Info@oyelectrical.com 🍫 🧁 ☕️
@@corymacwow, thanks! Email sent 😄
That is an awesome idea, there will be many EV out of commission and this is a natural progression market. Too bad there is no standard protocol which is typical in many devices. Hope you go far and crack many models.
Interesting project, I like it!
The BMS communication problem is always there. My idea would be to use a deye high voltage inverter, there you can defin a battery only by voltage levels. Not perfect, but works and is easy.
You’re a sparky , you know you want to get a tin opener on that thing , gut it , make the batteries dumb and fit them in a housing with a simple charge controller.
It would already be in pieces if it were mine .
I may or may not have ( if JLR see this definitely I didn’t ) opened up the casing already 😁. It’s just that we have a multimillion pound design here! I don’t wanna butcher it, I wanna keep as much of the original stuff as possible
@@corymac
I agree ,it’s a lovely bit of kit and if you can get it to play nice and be a good little battery, cool cool cool .
However , if it stays all “ ED209 “ i’d have it’s guts in a shiny cybertruck sytlie box .
Can’t go wrong either way i guess . Good luck !
No 1 - the interlock circuit doesn't work by shorting it out, some other manufacturers use a 12v 88hz bidirectional signal through the wires, if that signal isn't seen on both wires then the interlock circuit cuts out the battery contacts.
Also the interlock circuit usually runs though all the high voltage orange plugs, the two tiny pins at the top or bottom of the large orange plugs are the interlock circuit pins.
No 2 - HV battery packs have internal pyro fuses that blow when the crash signal is sent out by the SRS control unit, this is called tml30c, the crash signal circuit.
You really need to find out what the interlock circuit actually is, if it's frequency or PWM ect....
You also need to have a loo myo see if you've got interlock running through the orange HV plugs.
This video was quality and will open many peoples eyes to not having to pay 30k+ for off the shelf solar bits with fancy brand names..
Thanks mate
@@corymac You should have a look at server equipment too. Our office had UPS batteries that could run the entire full server rack at full chat for 4+ hours. When it closed down I took one to use as a solar power battery at home, as in a normal house just one pc, tv etc.. it would run for a couple of days haha. They also have built in 240 inverters
So you've got the following from CAN: Door closed, foot on brake, Start/Stop button pressed. Maybe you need information form the driver seat sensor too? (e.g. In a Volvo C40 Recharge, if you lift your butt off the drivers seat, the car doesn't like it)
What about charging the battery? Would you need to record a different sequence from CAN? 'Car in Park, Handbrake on' is about the only thing I can think of.
This is a fascinating project!
We have all the can recorded that was necessary to start the working I pace 😁
Great work guys. The real issue for these projects is the manufacturer needs to have recycling of the product forced on them by laws.. Then they will publish and develop products that can have a second life. I hope you succeed and while I am an electronics engineer I agree with your approach and understand the pain … well done and thanks for the massive effort …
I love the geekiest & nerdiest stuff. I loved the Tesla/Edison joke. Are there internal sensor for coolant levels that are keeping the battery from working? Also isn't there an accelerometer that shuts everything down after a crash, does that need to be physically reset?
Thanks man. There’s a pyro fuse, but that hasn’t blown! And as far as we can see in the logs, there is nothing software related blocking anything
You are where the future is .... I can't wait until someone gives such projects the traction needed to make this a business. ( Octopus??) Octopus do support VTG but the cars and charges are very limited. Their tariff is called Power pack is currently compatible with:
Nissan Leaf
Nissan e-NV200
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV.
The chargers needed are Wallbox Quasar 1 (it's worth noting that the Wallbox Quasar 1 is no longer for sale in the UK, so you'd have to have it already installed).
Octopus say they are working hard on more integrations!
Total respect to you guys for doing this - lets hope someone gets in touch to give you what is needed
We’ve had some big wigs see the video, and come along to help! Stay tuned 😁👍🏼
there is already a large market for used ev batteries which you may not be aware of. Prices of second hand cells are quite high due to the high demand
Have you check the other connectors on the top? There is also the interlock loop inside. There must be a reason, the battery shut down after 5 sesonds. Something is failed to check while bootup. It could be the battery expected a massage from other ecu's in a time window (maybe every 5 sec )?
We’ve linked the HVIL’s but still was throwing a hissy!
You don't have sponsorship but every second video is an advert
I’ve never made an advert video 👌. Sponsors buy small segments of videos, if I’ve made a video about something, it’s off my own back because I’m interested in it.
If you’d care to tell me which of my videos is an advert, it would be helpful to know, just so I can ping them an invoice!
Love this, waiting for pt2!!!
🙏🏼🙏🏼🔋🔋🔋
Amazing, never thought I'd see someone hack a EV battery (something I've been wanting to do for a long time) let alone see you do it.
Thanks! 🤩 teamwork
I wonder if the batteries are serialized? As an example, Apple serializes all of their components so that you can't swap the cameras between 2 identical phones. John Deer tractors won't let farmers make repairs themselves like this, too. The only thing this really does is make it hard for anyone except for the authorized service techs to do anything to the products.
Batteries can get locked up when they receive crash signal. I suggest you plug it under a normal car diagnostics and see what the fault codes are
Can't get enough of this kind of thing Cory. Keep it coming!!!
Thanks so much! Coming soon!
Not a expert. But what I suspect, is that the battery module is "coded" to the other control systems in the original car. Most electronic modules in cars nowadays, have security codes built into them, and won't talk to other modules until they are "coded". It's really just matching it up with other modules in the car. It's done as part of the car security system.
So what I suspect, is the battery is looking for the security system, to tell it that A) everything is ok, and B) a valid key has been detected, before it'll enable it. Until you meet these expectations of the system, it'll probably default to off. And it's also why it won't work, just by hooking it up to another car, because the module codes will be different.
What you will probably need to look into, is what controls the security of the original car (probably a body module of some sort), and look into how modules are coded into the car when new parts are installed. Then from there you can work back and figure out what the battery module is looking for, and replicate it with an Arduino or Raspberry Pi or something.
That initial burst you see in the CAN BUS, is probably a handshake, looking for other modules on the bus, coded to the same car "network", and when it doesn't find any, it shuts down, because it doesn't get a handshake response that is valid.
Also, the fact there are 3 CAN buses, you probably have a primary one, and a backup one, most cars have two networks now, so if one network fails, due to a wiring fault or something, it can continue to talk on the backup, a flag a fault code in the other modules. The third might go to a module for the battery cooling system, or the security system or something.
Another thing to consider, is it's probably got codes stored indicating it was in a crash, and these will probably need cleared before it'll operate again.
SO best bet is to dig into the wiring diagrams, look for the ODB port, trace what module it goes to, and then figure out if that module controls the security system of the crashed car.
Could the battery have a level sensor as a safety mechanism? I’m not in any way an electrical specialist but I was a paramedic. The cars that would roll over in an RTC would have a special mechanism to make them safe.
If this battery is not horizontal then could it be thinking it’s rolled over?
Fair point, but, I believe this is data it receives from the car, not from within the battery
@@corymac If it's a safety precaution, then why would it be somewhere else in the car and not in the battery?