Here's the big question: who developed the firmware? If Sigma did it, yeah, they could technically (though probably not legally, due to contracts) remount an existing 150-600 lens for M43. But if they didn't -- if OMDS developed the software -- then there's no value in that remount. It doesn't work on your camera. Why would I assume that OMDS did the software work (or, equally problematic, Sigma was contracted to develop the software and it's owned by OMDS)? Two things. One is that, since Sigma didn't make an M43 version, OMDS would actually have to enlist them as an OEM for the lens, and in return for that money, OMDS owns the lens. It's like when Sony makes a custom version of a sensor for Olympus/OMDS... not of the Panasonics could the Olympus sensors, even though both camera from Sony. The other is that sync IBIS is only ever an Olympus thing (or for Panasonic lenses, a Panasonic thing), which is annoying in M43. But basically, OMDS wouldn't have given Sigma the sync IBIS code except under NDA. And given all the software stuff that's happened for the OM-1.2, it's pretty clear OMDS has their software team working well. So at least I'd bet it's OMDS and Sigma working together. The other annoying thing about this is that paid collaboration. We've seen this before in tech. When Microsoft decided to launch their Windows Phone OS, no major developers were interested in supporting that system. Microsoft well understood that you can't be a major smartphone platform without major company apps on it: Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, etc. I don't know big their net was... but they paid a bunch of companies to develop apps. Those companies, looking at the non-existent market, got paid assuming Microsoft's payment was all the money they'd ever make on the port. So they didn't even offer much in the way of updates, as they'd wait for Microsoft to pay. So that's what we have here. Sigma actually did the right thing with M43: they made real M43 lenses, but it wasn't a big market for them because they do FF and APS-C designs for pretty much every other company, not just Olympus and Panasonic. Plus, because M43 had two "first party" or really primary lens makers, and they weren't overpriced -- at least back then -- Sigma had less they could do. They weren't going to try to sell a FF lens as M43 (or APS-C) because that delivers a lower image quality than they same optical formula rejiggered for M43/APS-C. So while I'm expecting Sigma to make more M43 lenses, the fact they get paid by OMDS to do that pretty much ensure they wouldn't get all that interested even if M43 got really popular again. They'll just wait for the cash up front and profitable product orders, no need to ever put out that product into an uncertain market on their own.
I have used the Sigma 150-600 C for EF mount before. It was so soft at 600mm. When shooting a test studio shot from the same distance, my 400/5.6 EF was able to produce sharper and more detailed images, despite the 200mm deficit. I was able to crop both 600mm and 400mm shots to the same framing, and the 400mm performed much better. I don't have any experience with the newer mirrorless 150-600mm Sigma lenses. I'm not sure how much better it is. The EF version is a very cheap lens. If the OM System lens is the same thing, then it's basically useless. It will be ridiculously soft. Hopefully it's the newer mirrorless version of the lens. The Sony one performs close to the 200-600 at 600mm from the test I've seen, but I can't really confirm it until I've seen it for myself.
If the performance of this lens is close to the Sony 200-600, then I think it can be a very good option for 300/4 users who are not keen on spending $10,000 CAD on the 150-400. It should be fairly close to the 300/4+2x TC at 600mm. Maybe a tad softer, but it will be faster at F6.3 vs F8. The flexibility of the zoom would be handy.
What you say at the beginning is true only for telephoto lenses. For wide angle lenses image circle size and flange distance is very important for the size. The problem is that Olympus 100-400mm is based on DSLR Sigma. If that was based on DG DN version it would be much better. Optical formula is changed in terms of focusing group being smaller. You can also change coatings. For me the case is simple. If this lens is based on old Contemporary 150-600mm DSLR lens (24 elements in 14 groups), it is to be skipped. This lens was soft at 400mm and up. If this is based on new mirroless 150-600mm Sport version (25 elements in 15 groups), I will probably buy it, but It will depend on the price in Poland.
Very true, I should have stated that but I was only reacting so there's so many thoughts going through my already partially drunk mind. Let's hope it's the newer version as I didn't even know that one existed! Thank you again for watching and saying so. Honestly the more I think about it the more I'm comfortable with the lens as it's priced. Even the Olympus 100-400, while it is designed and manufactured by Sigma, it's definitely different from the Sigma 100-400. It's looks and feels very Olympus and that's really all I ask for.
At the moment bar the e.mail from OMS it’s still speculation on weight ,size specs or even whether it’s a rebranded sigma at all …. It’s not logical for sigma to take the route of re.badging when they could sell a MFT mount under the sigma label ?? .. .having to wait till Monday is the best option before making* any rash decisions
No rash decision. Just a reaction to a rumor. Not sure if the rumor is true or not but Sigma has done this before. Olympus 100-400 is definitely a rebadged version of the Sigma 100-400. Sigma has done so for other manufacturers and so has a few other 3rd party lens makers for other companies. Except Canon and Fuji, they seem to be the ONLY two companies that ACTUALLY design and manufacture ALL their lenses in-house. Sigma has already stated that they will no longer make anything for MFT. So, they sure as hell can sell off their own lenses to other manufacturers for them to rebadge them. Hell, maybe this was a deal made behind the scenes. But we will definitely see on Monday! My money is the rumor is true. OM Systems doesn't own any of the glass manufacturing as that was always part of the medical side of Olympus which is still part of Olympus and not with OMDS.
@@AlpacoFilms your statement has a element of doubt I’m afraid ..you state that sigma says it will not make and obviously market any MFT lenses yet there current line up contains the 56mm f1.4 the 30mm and the 16mm all great AF lenses and ALL available in MFT format .. but we shall see
@@53HB I didn't make that up out of the air. They've stated it. I linked the article. Please just google it yourself. The current line was made YEARS ago! www.videomaker.com/news/sigma-wont-develop-more-micro-four-thirds-lenses/#:~:text=Sigma%20currently%20only%20makes%20three%20Micro%20Four%20Thirds%20lenses%2C%20so,shouldn't%20worry%20just%20yet.
It's completely logical for Sigma to offer OEM versions of lenses that are for mounts they don't support or never would support in that way. For one, Sigma as a lensmaker is never going to put an M43 or APS-C mount on a FF lens. It's wrong, and it would reflect poorly on them. Take the same basic optical formula and build both a FF lens and an M43 lens. The M43 lens will be sharper, smaller, and lighter than the FF lens adapted to M43. Your M43 lens would deliver a full M43 image circle with roughly the same optical resolution you get from the FF image circle. So for the adapted lens, you're cutting out 3/4 of the effective resolution of the lens. And even if the Sigma has an especially sharp center of image, I'm expecting this is going to be revealed in in-depth reviews. There is an in-between, and hopefully, that's what the did here. It's claimed that the Olympus 100-400mm was based on a Sigma design, and while that might be true, the back-end of that optical design is different for the Olympus lens, and seems to deliver a true 4/3 image circle. That's all you need to fix the image quality issue, and it could be as well what they did in the new 150-600mm lens. You still pay the FF price for size and weight, you get an extra pile of money on price in return, I guess, for Sync-IS, teleconverter support, and because OMDS thinks they can get it. But at least the image quality wouldn't entirely suck. That's meaningful, too, in knowing whether the 150-600mm would actually outperform my 100-400mm with a teleconverter... or hires mode + crop, in situations that would work. Look for a test with Olympus hires modes. I've read reviews in which the OM-1 and a very good Olympus lens is capturing sharper images and better color than a Nikon Z7 with an equally good lens. What would you get with an adapted FF lens? I've done it plenty of time myself with classic lenses on my Olympus gear, and that's why I sold my film era OM 300mm f/4.5 and bought the modern M.Zuiko 300mm f/4.0... the difference is day and night. Some of that's a modern lens design, but more of that's the fact you have a lens designed for that sensor size. This is also where Sigma and other 3rd party companies do well. Canon/Nikon/Sony all sell APS-C cameras, but the only first-party camera company making pro-grade APS-C glass is Fujifilm. Sigma does, Tamron does, Tokina does, some of the Chinese do, but the big three think APS-C is for consumers.
Canon R mount for Sigma ??? What are you even talking about. Canon is reluctant to let 3rd party Lens Co's even make 'R' mount lenses. and the Canon 'R' mount won't fit Sigma cameras, they use the 'L' mount.
OM systems missed the pricing boat on this. Even with the IBIS, nearly triple the price is ridiculous. It should’ve come in at halfway between the 100-400 and the 300f4. I suspect the pricing is because it’s basically an option instead of the 300f4. That’s how I look at it. If they price it significantly below the 300f4 that lens will stop selling. That’s my guess.
This might be the end for me with this brand. I just looked at their older 60mm Macro lens that used to be $300, is now $600. I understand inflation, but come on! As tempting as their new 90mm Macro lens was, I can purchase a full fledged microscope with adapter to fit my camera for a few dollars less.
M43 doesn't have the economies of scale that Canon or Sony does. Thats the reason the lens will cost more. It's nothing to do with OM System price gouging.
I totally get that, but they are buying a lens from a manufacturer that's already had an established stock of this lens and have already been manufacturing this lens for a long time. Unit costs would go down. However, cost is also determined by the amount of units purchased. So, assuming OM already knows roughly how many lenses they'll sell through their own statistics. They would purchase a preset amount of units during the first wave of sale. Lower amount of units, higher the cost of manufacturing. So, it's most likely that. BUT, again this is an older a well established lens (assuming rumors are true) the base cost of this lens I can't imagine being being THAT much. But, we will all see on Monday.
Honestly the more I think about it the more I'm comfortable with the lens as it's priced. Even the Olympus 100-400, while it is designed and manufactured by Sigma, it's definitely different from the Sigma 100-400. It's looks and feels very Olympus and that's really all I ask for.
Yea...I get it, once the OM-1 Mark II and all my videos of OM are cleared from my harddrive probably gonna shift my focus elsewhere. OM overall is just a boring. But thank you anyway.
Yea I get it, I posted this video hours after the rumor posted. Yea it's based on the sport model. Doesn't change the fact it's a full frame lenses that cost nearly a $1000 more than the sigma version. If they needed someone to write the code for it work with dual stab, give me the base code of the lens and I bet I could figure it out.
Here's the big question: who developed the firmware? If Sigma did it, yeah, they could technically (though probably not legally, due to contracts) remount an existing 150-600 lens for M43. But if they didn't -- if OMDS developed the software -- then there's no value in that remount. It doesn't work on your camera. Why would I assume that OMDS did the software work (or, equally problematic, Sigma was contracted to develop the software and it's owned by OMDS)? Two things. One is that, since Sigma didn't make an M43 version, OMDS would actually have to enlist them as an OEM for the lens, and in return for that money, OMDS owns the lens. It's like when Sony makes a custom version of a sensor for Olympus/OMDS... not of the Panasonics could the Olympus sensors, even though both camera from Sony. The other is that sync IBIS is only ever an Olympus thing (or for Panasonic lenses, a Panasonic thing), which is annoying in M43. But basically, OMDS wouldn't have given Sigma the sync IBIS code except under NDA. And given all the software stuff that's happened for the OM-1.2, it's pretty clear OMDS has their software team working well. So at least I'd bet it's OMDS and Sigma working together.
The other annoying thing about this is that paid collaboration. We've seen this before in tech. When Microsoft decided to launch their Windows Phone OS, no major developers were interested in supporting that system. Microsoft well understood that you can't be a major smartphone platform without major company apps on it: Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, etc. I don't know big their net was... but they paid a bunch of companies to develop apps. Those companies, looking at the non-existent market, got paid assuming Microsoft's payment was all the money they'd ever make on the port. So they didn't even offer much in the way of updates, as they'd wait for Microsoft to pay.
So that's what we have here. Sigma actually did the right thing with M43: they made real M43 lenses, but it wasn't a big market for them because they do FF and APS-C designs for pretty much every other company, not just Olympus and Panasonic. Plus, because M43 had two "first party" or really primary lens makers, and they weren't overpriced -- at least back then -- Sigma had less they could do. They weren't going to try to sell a FF lens as M43 (or APS-C) because that delivers a lower image quality than they same optical formula rejiggered for M43/APS-C. So while I'm expecting Sigma to make more M43 lenses, the fact they get paid by OMDS to do that pretty much ensure they wouldn't get all that interested even if M43 got really popular again. They'll just wait for the cash up front and profitable product orders, no need to ever put out that product into an uncertain market on their own.
This is so true! Thanks for sharing!
I have used the Sigma 150-600 C for EF mount before. It was so soft at 600mm. When shooting a test studio shot from the same distance, my 400/5.6 EF was able to produce sharper and more detailed images, despite the 200mm deficit. I was able to crop both 600mm and 400mm shots to the same framing, and the 400mm performed much better. I don't have any experience with the newer mirrorless 150-600mm Sigma lenses. I'm not sure how much better it is. The EF version is a very cheap lens. If the OM System lens is the same thing, then it's basically useless. It will be ridiculously soft. Hopefully it's the newer mirrorless version of the lens. The Sony one performs close to the 200-600 at 600mm from the test I've seen, but I can't really confirm it until I've seen it for myself.
If the performance of this lens is close to the Sony 200-600, then I think it can be a very good option for 300/4 users who are not keen on spending $10,000 CAD on the 150-400. It should be fairly close to the 300/4+2x TC at 600mm. Maybe a tad softer, but it will be faster at F6.3 vs F8. The flexibility of the zoom would be handy.
Very true! I hope it works well for those that are wanting this lens!
What you say at the beginning is true only for telephoto lenses. For wide angle lenses image circle size and flange distance is very important for the size. The problem is that Olympus 100-400mm is based on DSLR Sigma. If that was based on DG DN version it would be much better. Optical formula is changed in terms of focusing group being smaller. You can also change coatings. For me the case is simple. If this lens is based on old Contemporary 150-600mm DSLR lens (24 elements in 14 groups), it is to be skipped. This lens was soft at 400mm and up. If this is based on new mirroless 150-600mm Sport version (25 elements in 15 groups), I will probably buy it, but It will depend on the price in Poland.
Very true, I should have stated that but I was only reacting so there's so many thoughts going through my already partially drunk mind. Let's hope it's the newer version as I didn't even know that one existed! Thank you again for watching and saying so. Honestly the more I think about it the more I'm comfortable with the lens as it's priced. Even the Olympus 100-400, while it is designed and manufactured by Sigma, it's definitely different from the Sigma 100-400. It's looks and feels very Olympus and that's really all I ask for.
It is based on the sigma sport.
At the moment bar the e.mail from OMS it’s still speculation on weight ,size specs or even whether it’s a rebranded sigma at all …. It’s not logical for sigma to take the route of re.badging when they could sell a MFT mount under the sigma label ?? .. .having to wait till Monday is the best option before making* any rash decisions
No rash decision. Just a reaction to a rumor. Not sure if the rumor is true or not but Sigma has done this before. Olympus 100-400 is definitely a rebadged version of the Sigma 100-400. Sigma has done so for other manufacturers and so has a few other 3rd party lens makers for other companies. Except Canon and Fuji, they seem to be the ONLY two companies that ACTUALLY design and manufacture ALL their lenses in-house. Sigma has already stated that they will no longer make anything for MFT. So, they sure as hell can sell off their own lenses to other manufacturers for them to rebadge them. Hell, maybe this was a deal made behind the scenes. But we will definitely see on Monday! My money is the rumor is true. OM Systems doesn't own any of the glass manufacturing as that was always part of the medical side of Olympus which is still part of Olympus and not with OMDS.
@@AlpacoFilms your statement has a element of doubt I’m afraid ..you state that sigma says it will not make and obviously market any MFT lenses yet there current line up contains the 56mm f1.4 the 30mm and the 16mm all great AF lenses and ALL available in MFT format .. but we shall see
@@53HB I didn't make that up out of the air. They've stated it. I linked the article. Please just google it yourself. The current line was made YEARS ago!
www.videomaker.com/news/sigma-wont-develop-more-micro-four-thirds-lenses/#:~:text=Sigma%20currently%20only%20makes%20three%20Micro%20Four%20Thirds%20lenses%2C%20so,shouldn't%20worry%20just%20yet.
It's completely logical for Sigma to offer OEM versions of lenses that are for mounts they don't support or never would support in that way. For one, Sigma as a lensmaker is never going to put an M43 or APS-C mount on a FF lens. It's wrong, and it would reflect poorly on them. Take the same basic optical formula and build both a FF lens and an M43 lens. The M43 lens will be sharper, smaller, and lighter than the FF lens adapted to M43. Your M43 lens would deliver a full M43 image circle with roughly the same optical resolution you get from the FF image circle. So for the adapted lens, you're cutting out 3/4 of the effective resolution of the lens. And even if the Sigma has an especially sharp center of image, I'm expecting this is going to be revealed in in-depth reviews.
There is an in-between, and hopefully, that's what the did here. It's claimed that the Olympus 100-400mm was based on a Sigma design, and while that might be true, the back-end of that optical design is different for the Olympus lens, and seems to deliver a true 4/3 image circle. That's all you need to fix the image quality issue, and it could be as well what they did in the new 150-600mm lens. You still pay the FF price for size and weight, you get an extra pile of money on price in return, I guess, for Sync-IS, teleconverter support, and because OMDS thinks they can get it. But at least the image quality wouldn't entirely suck. That's meaningful, too, in knowing whether the 150-600mm would actually outperform my 100-400mm with a teleconverter... or hires mode + crop, in situations that would work.
Look for a test with Olympus hires modes. I've read reviews in which the OM-1 and a very good Olympus lens is capturing sharper images and better color than a Nikon Z7 with an equally good lens. What would you get with an adapted FF lens? I've done it plenty of time myself with classic lenses on my Olympus gear, and that's why I sold my film era OM 300mm f/4.5 and bought the modern M.Zuiko 300mm f/4.0... the difference is day and night. Some of that's a modern lens design, but more of that's the fact you have a lens designed for that sensor size.
This is also where Sigma and other 3rd party companies do well. Canon/Nikon/Sony all sell APS-C cameras, but the only first-party camera company making pro-grade APS-C glass is Fujifilm. Sigma does, Tamron does, Tokina does, some of the Chinese do, but the big three think APS-C is for consumers.
Looking at the price for Canon EF mount? A discontinued mount? Look at the Canon R mount for Sigma. Oh wait…
So true! lol! Yea this lens actually came out in 2021 I think so it's pretty new. But yea great point!
Canon R mount for Sigma ??? What are you even talking about.
Canon is reluctant to let 3rd party Lens Co's even make 'R' mount lenses. and the Canon 'R' mount won't fit Sigma cameras, they use the 'L' mount.
OM systems missed the pricing boat on this. Even with the IBIS, nearly triple the price is ridiculous. It should’ve come in at halfway between the 100-400 and the 300f4. I suspect the pricing is because it’s basically an option instead of the 300f4. That’s how I look at it. If they price it significantly below the 300f4 that lens will stop selling. That’s my guess.
This might be the end for me with this brand. I just looked at their older 60mm Macro lens that used to be $300, is now $600. I understand inflation, but come on! As tempting as their new 90mm Macro lens was, I can purchase a full fledged microscope with adapter to fit my camera for a few dollars less.
M43 doesn't have the economies of scale that Canon or Sony does. Thats the reason the lens will cost more.
It's nothing to do with OM System price gouging.
I totally get that, but they are buying a lens from a manufacturer that's already had an established stock of this lens and have already been manufacturing this lens for a long time. Unit costs would go down. However, cost is also determined by the amount of units purchased. So, assuming OM already knows roughly how many lenses they'll sell through their own statistics. They would purchase a preset amount of units during the first wave of sale. Lower amount of units, higher the cost of manufacturing. So, it's most likely that. BUT, again this is an older a well established lens (assuming rumors are true) the base cost of this lens I can't imagine being being THAT much. But, we will all see on Monday.
Honestly the more I think about it the more I'm comfortable with the lens as it's priced. Even the Olympus 100-400, while it is designed and manufactured by Sigma, it's definitely different from the Sigma 100-400. It's looks and feels very Olympus and that's really all I ask for.
boring
Yea...I get it, once the OM-1 Mark II and all my videos of OM are cleared from my harddrive probably gonna shift my focus elsewhere. OM overall is just a boring. But thank you anyway.
Same regurgitated and misinformed content…
Yea I get it, I posted this video hours after the rumor posted. Yea it's based on the sport model. Doesn't change the fact it's a full frame lenses that cost nearly a $1000 more than the sigma version. If they needed someone to write the code for it work with dual stab, give me the base code of the lens and I bet I could figure it out.
Que video mas malo
Regardless, thanks for the engagement!