The UK's First Dutch Style Roundabout - Is it Any Good... Maybe...
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- Опубликовано: 6 фев 2024
- #cambridge #infrastructure #roundabout #driving
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Cambridge... I dunno.. they seem to have all the "bright ideas" when it comes to solving transportation problems. They do love a bicycle in Cambridge it's fair to say, which is no bad thing. The problem is they keep getting run over and in this video we look at a roundabout that promises to solve this. But I'm not sure if it does. 
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As an English guy living in the Netherlands that looks like a pretty decent attempt at a Dutch roundabout (apart from all the extra road markings). It's also worth reminding everyone that the Netherlands wasn't always like it is today. They had to work hard at building infrastructure that worked, one roundabout at a time. Throwing down one roundabout in Cambridge wont work; you've got to do this for every roundabout.
How many billions?
@Rozmic how much do you reckon it cost to turn us into a driving nation rather than a horse/train riding nation? And for what benefit?
@@Rozmic Ah the perfect English reply: "OOOOOOOOSS gonna pay for that, then?!"
@@Rozmic I would imagine not so much extra than it would be to renew the infrastructure as it came to the end of it's life-cycle. It wasn't a case of replacing everything at once, just that when something came of an age it would be updated to the new design standard.
Problem is every roundabout is used by cars, can’t say the same for cyclists.
I used to live & work in Cambridge, so when I saw that this roundabout was being installed I was quite interested. But then I saw the location.
It's a bizarre place to install a roundabout like this because it's all on its own; it's not connected to any other quality infrastructure.
I've started calling this "cargo cult infrastructure." Where traffic engineers in other countries try to mimic the look of Dutch infrastructure without understanding the overall context into which it is placed.
Fundamentally, Dutch style roundabouts are safer for people cycling and walking. But they are safer when they are placed in a context of a transportation system that treats walking and cycling as first class transportation methods. The United Kingdom does not do that.
Of course, you have to start somewhere, but in a place like Cambridge, that should be done by reducing access for cars in general: expanding the low car city center, reducing through traffic for cars, providing more public transit and dedicated lanes, providing alternative routes for cycling that aren't the same routes as those used by cars, etc. It's certainly not done with big ticket cargo cult infrastructure slapped down in a car-centric context.
This exactly 👍
I've been watching your videos for at least 2 years now and only now realise we lived in the same city.
With regards to your last paragraph, a group of the local authorities (Greater Cambridge Partnership) ran a consultation on a carrot and rod scheme to charge motorists to subsidise public transport and active travel infrastructure. The result was depressingly predictable - car users got up in arms and it was binned despite various local focus groups spending years designing the scheme including a local citizens assembly drafting the proposals in the first place. It was very depressing.
You are correct but he kind of says that in the video, doesn't he?
@@Stormfox93NJB was commenting on the roundabout, not really the person in the video
As a Dutchie I fully agree with this and would like to add something. The red tarmac keeps going in a full circle uninterrupted, giving cyclist no visual sign of any kind when they cross the road with cars (thus should look for traffic). The moment our red tarmac crosses a road, it changes to black tarmac to show there will be cars.
"And work started almost immediately in 2019" 😂
Smells about right for what i have heard for the UK. Netherlands isn't much faster, except it costs less.
Some bloke called 'Auto Shenanigans' has a whole youtube channel on how fast and efficient UK road infrastructure is.
@@Eledore That nearly broke my brain. Had to remember it was all satire. 😂😂😂😂
It was the delivery of "massively over budget that got me" 😂
Yup, sounds about right.
Classic British humour with a bite - love it!
As someone who's worked in an industry where I need to look at those maps of all the underground cables, I can say some of the older maps companies have are woefully inaccurate. It wasn't uncommon to find underground utilities where we weren't expecting them, and Cadent will actually send someone out to watch you dig if you're digging in the same road as a medium pressure gas main. Even if their plans say it's on the other side of the road because even they don't trust that it's where their plans say it is.
Can confirm this. My mother used to work in a department responsible for property searches which reference older maps, and they are awful to make sense of, often badly or outright incorrectly plotted with regards to reference points.
Often in the past when services were put underground they were marked on maps before being laid, the navies often dug and laid them in the wrong place, even confusing feet with yards or if the 60's yards with metres. It was assumed they had been laid in the right place, no one bothered to check. If they are in the right place roads get realigned and widened, buildings get demolished, what was a fixed point has moved or vanished.
@tonys1636 Funnily enough that still happens! The amount of times I've had to move infrastructure and adjust utility designs because somebody on a building site doesn't know north from south is ludicrous! Luckily someone usually notices and actually tells us to update the records these days.
@@th3griff When mains gas came to my town 20 odd years ago the gas company soon discovered that some sewers weren't where marked as broke a few laying the gas mains beneath/lower than them. Didn't always run in a straight line between manholes. They used a 'mole' to run the pipes from the main to house.
Many years ago I was involved with a drainage scheme on a school playing field We were putting land drains in around 18-24 inches deep with perforated plastic pipe and shingle. We hadn`t been working very long when our boss got an aerial photograph of us working on the field with a very strong "who gave you permission to this?" letter! It transpired we were working over the largest gas main in the area which thankfully was way deeper than we were working!
Love the almost-but-not-quite "You Spin Me Round" at the end 😄
Jon has many interests. Car, music, films and fashion.
@@djsmitheBridges too
Feels like the taxpayer is the one who got spun around from that million pounds of extra costs.
gotta avoid the copyright strikes somehow 😅
@@Dan23_7 And railroads but I think that's a fetish.
I had a long conversation with a planning officer about "Dutch kerbs" (a not so dropped kerb designed to slow cars crossing pavements at the entrance to a property). It went along the lines of "I get what you want but who in the UK manufacturers or imports these kerb stones?" "Well they have them in Holland so you must be able to find them" After a call to the biggest supplier of kerbs etc in the UK I came away with the response "never heard of them, is it like a speed ramp or table?" For the next five minutes all my colleagues could hear was my head banging against the proverbial brick wall 🙄
well I guess they are like speed ramp stones? just sloped wide stones, right? also the "dutch kerb" is not only for property, but also when you have a through-road crossing a residential street, the raised kerbs will be along the sides of the through-road.
Also after simply looking up the word dutch kerb I found a UK supplier on the first hit😆
pre-brexit you'd have ordered those straight from a Dutch supplier, I doubt they'll be interested in exporting them now.
@@korenn9381 would explain the cost overruns 😂
@@khulhucthulhu9952 if these types of road designs become common in the UK, that's probably a good money maker though. Either importing them or making them yourself.
@@khulhucthulhu9952 yes, spot on description and speed table transition units are probably the closest, although the junction to standard kerbs still needs thought
Seville showed how to get it done. You don't start by putting in perfect and expensive isolated bits of infrastructure - you start with a quick and dirty network across the city, and then improve sections bit-by-bit. That's how they increased the cycling rate from 0.5% of journeys to 9% of journeys in just a few years.
Before anyone says it, it's nothing to do with weather. It rains more, on more days, and is colder in winter in Amsterdam than it is in Cambridge. Or even in Edinburgh.
Helps when you have the EU (aka Germany) pay for it....
So another Brexit win@@ckm-mkc
@@ckm-mkcThe Netherlands is the third highest net contributor to the EU budget.
And nationally they mandated cycle helmets, which...? Yes, I know, contentious. Sorry.
I've flip-flopped over the years. 70s/80s as a kid, no helmet. 90s cycling to work, helmet. 00s/10s volunteering/working for Cycling UK (CTC), no helmet, because of improved knowledge on some shortcomings of their design, particularly rotational impact. 20s helmet, with Mips (Multi-directional Impact Protection System), which has its own Wikipedia page.
@@PhillipBicknell thanks will look it up. Context is important, I lived in China and the Dutch I worked with refused (initially) to wear helmets despite the vastly different driving standards between the Netherlands and China.
I think the success relies on the mind set of the car drivers. In the Netherlands we have the bicycle culture for many decades, so everyone is used to it. Also a lot of motorists also drive bikes, so they know both sides, so to speak. In the UK, and many other countries, you have motorists who don’t use the bicycle as their main source of transportation and haven’t ridden a bike since they were kids. They usually see them as a nuisance. And there lies the biggest problem.
I lived in central Birmingham for a year from 2022-23, and the new Cycleways on the A38 and A34 were absolutely brilliant to get around. I could get to work, the shops, and any leisure facility that I needed without feeling like I was going to be annihilated by a distracted driver doing 40mph.
Oh also the mrs felt safe enough to ride her bike alongside me, which is one of the best bits about good cycling infrastructure. Hopefully we can build a lot more of these roundabouts across the UK!
You get what you build and you build what you get.
Most of the cyclists we see are the lycra clad drop handlebar bikes because they're the only ones who are confident enough to cycle on the road.
When people realise they're not going to pancaked by a car or lorry, cycling becomes an attractive option
@@thomaswilliams4543 Absolutely, I'm personally confident to ride in mixed traffic - however very few people that I know would risk it.
No wonder most of our cities are infested with cars, people haven't got any other good options.
Can't wait to see the magic roundabouts in Swindon and Hemel Hempstead converted to these.
Isn’t there one in Swindon with roundabouts dancing around the main roundabout. Those wags! What will they think of next?😂
Hemels roundabout works, until you get someone from out of town that can't cope with it
@@robinwells8879 yeah, that is the magic roundabout :) if you look carefully you'll even notice it is possiable to go anti-clockwise (the wrong way) on swindons magic roundabout.
Hemel is the same. For locals it's no issue using it, but for out of towners it's panic attack inducing.
@@AVV_Beats Yeah, people over think them. If you just think about each of the mini roundabouts as it's own thing, it is actually very simple to navigate.
Many years ago I worked as surveyor for a county council and for all of our road schemes, we would circulate a scale plan round all the utilities requesting them to plot their cables / pipelines etc. (sewers were in-house) and return. Since they themselves had laid these things, it was for them a no-brainer, plotted by a trainee. In all my time there, we never had the dreaded JCB through the mains electricity placing a whole neighbourhood in darkness. Now, all these things have been privatised multiple times and nobody has a clue who laid what and where.
Over the pond we have an app for that.
Its from the private sector.
Bad regulation isn't a given with privatisation. If regulated properly, all companies are accountable no matter their property.
Where I grew up in the UK, the watermains and sewers were laid in the 19th century. No-one ever knew where they were, even before privatization...
Am i stupid for thinking it not to be that difficult to write in underground works contracts that drawings (and fotographs of works) should be delivered to county and a national charting service within 48 hours of the works finishing?
Should cost no more then 300 quid or so to add to the cost, and makes sure that next contractor has a fighting chance of getting it right whilst digging.
This roundabout is really good when you need to turn right while cycling during rush hour. You don't need to risk you life when getting from the bike lane to the right, just go around.
Lots of references to 'Cambridge Council' should be to Cambridgeshire County Council. The Cambridge City Council hasn't got any role in building roads.
@dbivuk Yeah but apparently all councils are useless, contemptible and corrupt and section 106 levies are 'bribes' by property developers so I'm guessing that no-one in this little bubble of the internet really gives two hoots about the nuances between different parts of local government.
I love that roundabout
Go back to your gaming and shush
😖🤮🤮🤮👎
I am very curious why, do you use this roundabout as a cyclist, pedestrian or as a car driver, what benefits do you experience?
I am Dutch and still quite proud if we have found the solution that we can ensure that we can reduce unnecessary car traffic in the world, and a fair traffic situation for all participants in traffic.
I worked on this back in 2018 and modelled it in a transport modelling software package called VISSIM. Was an interesting job but done on the cheap. I won't give my opinion on Cambridge Council's highways and planning department.
As someone whose mother worked alongside the planning department, I see you, and I understand exactly what you mean.
@@KidarWolf I've worked with numerous local authorities and statutory bodies in the past. I wouldn't like to work with them again.
If over twice the budget is “done on the cheap” I’m concerned to find out what road projects *should* cost. Oof. Maybe that’s the only way to get them green-lit (pun intended), but if so, it’s a shame.
@@IAmUndersteer you should read the DfT's TAG unit A1-2 'shceme costs', specifically the section on optimism bias.
Having used the roundabout as both a driver and more as a cyclist, I really don't like it.
I think a big problem is the cognitive load it puts on drivers, all the shrubs it makes it really easy to lose a cyclist in the clutter. This may make most drivers slow down but it probably won't do that to the ones who are a problem, especially right next to a hospital where there are very distracted people driving.
As a cyclist it is horrible because the angles are such that the cars are coming from your blind spot and you have to trust cars to stop for you which is always worrying as a cyclist.
It will also get worse as the paint wears off and the shrubs grow up.
A surprisingly balanced video from a car guy about non-car dependent infrastructure. Just shows you can enjoy cars and roads without being completely dependent on one
Not really that balanced. Right at the start he conflates cyclists with Lycra-wearers. In a properly functioning transport system, many people will be riding bikes without ever considering Lycra. Just go to the Netherlands, Belgium, Scandinavia, etc to see what I mean. It's a common transport option for people who would never even self-identify as a cyclist, let alone wear Lycra.
Ultimately, better pedestrian/cycling infrastructure leads to more people walking) cycling, which leads to fewer people driving, which makes it nicer to drive (or at worse, make little difference).
This sort of nuance is generally hard for a lot of people to get their head around, though.
@@Hakucho64That’s the thing: in the Netherlands, most cyclists ride their bike to get where they need to be, not for fun (the Lycra crowd) or as a job (couriers). It’s usually the last 2 kinds who ride like idiots, not the commuters nor kids on their way to school.
I can imagine that cyclists are associated with the Lycra crowd in countries where most cyclists are couriers or MAMILs on race bikes.
@@Hakucho64It's called a joke.
We have a "Dutch junction" in Newton Mearns near Glasgow which has just been finished, with cycle lanes which the cyclists avoid, and cars idling at pointless red lights in place of the perfectly functioning roundabout
Part of that behaviour at the start is going to be a culture change.
I looked up the project you mentioned and what makes it Dutch are the separated isles for slow traffic to wait behind. What would have made it an "actual" Dutch Traffic Light Controlled intersection if those lights were also sensing traffic so that cars don't sit idly by as you mentioned. All traffic lights here sense how much traffic is waiting and adjust their cycles to that. There's always going to be a "saturated" cycle with max wait times which they kind of default to at peak capacity, but in the downtime hours they'll be very responsive to any traffic approaching it.
While the new intersection is good, on its own it is not exactly covering all bases for what makes Dutch infrastructure Dutch.
I don't know the specifics of the project you mentioned well enough. I can only imagine they replaced the roundabout with a traffic light controlled junction, to prevent congestion becoming a major issue in the future. That's the thing with roundabouts in general. They work great, until congestion starts building up just a little bit, and they suddenly don't work at all. This is where traffic lights come on in as they can control flow which allows congested travel, but travel nonetheless.
Dutch-style roundabouts don't have traffic lights. Scottish councils are desperately shit at building cycling infrastructure, though Glasgow are getting better.
@@ringgeest11, the only roundabouts I ever saw that flat didn't work were in Sicily...but that's because the Sicilians don't much care for traffic rules.
Cyclists (particularly the more serious kind) tend to avoid cycle lanes as a rule because they are often dangerous, being frequently poorly maintained or poorly designed. Many cycle lanes for instance run alongside main roads, but have give way markings at every side road, so that whereas anyone on the road will be able to keep up a regular pace, those in the designated cycle lane will be required to stop at every junction.
It should be either, or, Lights/roundabout, not as councils do, both. Roundabouts work fine I live in a new town we have hundreds of the buggers. we also had 400Kms of cycle track that kept these toys off the roads (a bit like Milton Keynes) however stupid councillors, made cycle lanes in roads, narrowed roads, put traffic lights on roundabouts, pedestrian crossing on exits (we used to have under-passes for pedestrians) we even got an "hamburger" roundabout ffs. Councils wage war on motorists, then when these motorists avoid shopping in town centres, the councils moan.- @@ringgeest11
One thing they did wrong though, the pedestrian and cycle crossing should be raised, at the same level as the pavement, and it adds as a speed bump to make absolute sure drivers slow down.
I don't know what you base that on. While in some cases putting a crossing on a bump or a bump just in front af a crossing is done. Roundabouts typically are not where that happens. Because the roundabout itself already slows down traffic. At least that is my experience living in the Netherlands.
I live on a street with 20mph limit and speed bumps, SUVs and people who don't care about their suspension can go over them at quite a speed.
@@lolmaker777this is a 20 mph zone (30 km in dutch), he's correct. a roundabout in that situation often has raised beds for cycle and pedestrian crossings.
But if a roundabout is needed in a 30 mph zone, then the road design has fundamentally failed on other levels.
@@korenn9381 In the Netherlands I have never seen raised beds on a roundabout. It's not necessary either. Traffic is already slow enough.
@@gert-janvanderlee5307 You haven't seen it because road design is good enough that we don't need them here. A roundabout in a 30 kmh zone doesn't make any sense anymore, but they used to! We have several roundabouts with raised beds out here in Twente that I know of. usually in areas where they don't have the room to put a better solution in to route traffic around.
We have those roundabouts all over here in Denmark, except most of them have a blue painted cyclist lane, instead of red. :)
Do cars give a shit about them, eventhough we are known as a cyclist-friendly nation? Not at all!
It's wery hard for danes to turn their eyes and head to the right before exiting a roundabout. Speed is also a high factor for accidents!
Over here in NL we MUST give a shit. Why? Because when you as a car driver hit a pedestrian or cyclist you will be blamed and hed accountable for it EVEN when ou are NOT at fault. This is regulated in a trafic law in which cyclists and pedestrians are classified as 'vulnerable road users' which gives them increased legal protection.
And cars, trucks and motorcycles are not...
The effects?? We motorists see pedestrians and cyclists rounding those roundabouts with NOT A GD CARE in the world. Most stare straight ahead without seeking eye contact. others even stare at their PHONE! (which is a trafic violation all on its own)
That's why we as motorists make BLOODY SURE that we don't hit anybody when entereing or exiting the roundabout!!
As if dane car drivers would have ever given way to anybody...
@@jfv65 That's true in most US states as well, but it doesn't make any difference.
If the UK used blue it may not have cost £2.2million?! Might be where were going wrong.
I *am a cyclist.* No one ever asks me what I might want or why - The just build what they think I want then wonder why I don't actually use it! Might I suggest that at PINCH POINTS they put a BLUE cycle lane in _which car drivers MAY absolutely drive into too - just that they must cede the roadspace to a cyclist if (s)he is there at the time._ For example at traffic islands where the road width is a total of 8'6" draw a BLUE 'lane' 2'9" to 3'0" wide where you as a car driver CAN "share" this space too - just that if I am there passing through that island at the same time, you MUST yield to me or give me right of way - but we share the space together
Likewise, instead of "WHITE lining off" a cycle lane, make the lines BLUE - meaning _You (Mr car driver) can share this space with me - just that _*_I HAVE PRIORITY_*_ if we are there at the same time._
Putting in lanes and islands that will never be used just costs money, get all of us hated and causes frustration all round. We have to respect each other out there on the roads. It's not "them & us" but what works for all of us all round
Whoah! Careful! Intelligent proposals will get the government in a tizzy with you! Can't be having that, can we?
As a car driver - all uncertain 'can use, but not always' rules are very confusing. We are much more comfortable with direct unambiguous rules. You cannot park - good, you cannot park expect on Tuesday, or odd number days, or when cyclist is within 10 meters - bad. So if I see a blue lane where I can be, but if cyclist appear I am violating - no, thank you, I will stay away and perhaps take another road.
3:18. What is the purpose of those big cycling waiting spots at the traffic lights? They make no sense being placed there. In the Netherland we would only use those at actual intersections, usually with a lot of left-turning traffic. I like they're trying but don't bother if you don't even think about what you are building.
They are there so that the cyclists can get to the front of the queue and then the cars get to overtake them again.
As someone who has both cycled and driven through that intersection many many times, I can tell you it is very useful to both users of the road. As a cyclist, you can filter to the front of the queue and position yourself to either take the exit you want or carry on through the roundabout, and you know that the cars behind you can clearly see you and won't kill you. As a driver, it is handy to have cyclist filter past so you don't have to be as paranoid about ploughing a cyclist when coming off the roundabout. Often lights around here in Cambridge will go green for cyclists before they go green for cars, so you get a nice head-start as well.
i guess it is safer but still. Bikers shouldn't be mixed with cars on 3 lane roundabouts..@@TheAnimystro
Thats because as Netherlanders we're used to this sort of thing - cycling and stopping etc. For the British this is new. The British aren't that big of a cycling nation.
A lot of them still wear helmets, for Odins sake!
Have a look at the "shared space" & Dutch style roundabouts in Poynton, Cheshire. Completed and running from 2012. Crazy concept when you first see it, but it works so well.
I had to traverse that during rush hour once and was so confused. I think these things work in principle (and perhaps with practice) but as someone passing through it was terrible.
We must have been there on different days, whenever I've had the misfortune of the one on London Road the local Wankpanzer drivers are even more downright deadly than usual
Yeah......try riding a Motorcycle over those stupid brass 'Buttons' in the wet.
The system in Poynton is utterly useless and always blocked up. Moreover, pedestrians frequently step out into the road without looking as they think it's now the drivers' responsibility to avoid hitting them.
@@caino3003 which it is, to be fair.
It was so jaring to see such a familiar type of roundabout being driven trough on the left side
If the government want drivers to give way to pedestrians and cyclists, they should upgrade ALL roundabouts to make it absolutely clear to all with regards to what should be done.
simple as that really! :D
in the city its pushed by a lobby group and a few cycle dribblers who have infiltrated both the councils just like the road closures
Strong disagree. Just update the highway code rules.
Politely, if someone only know what to do based on either prior experience or because they require all roads to be "absolutely clear" then they shouldn't be behind the wheel of a 3 tonne death machine
@@CrowArchLane the highway code is pretty clear on who has right of way (cyclists and pedestrians). However, the take away from this is, that certain people think its acceptable to just do as they please, because the law says that if they are hit by a car, van or truck that its fine, its not their fault, if they ignore other road rules and ride or walk out in front of vehicles. However it is quite clear that those individuals will come a cropper one day and will be proven without doubt that their inaction is what caused and incident in the first place.
@@CrowArchLane yeah 'cos so many people already always follow the highways rules!
People need to understand that we haven't had cycling infrastructure somehow magically apear from the sky.
It's been an ongoing process since the late 60s up to today. That 50+ years of development.
It will take a while in your country!
Here in the USA we are getting roundabouts like you in the uk now and I love them and it’s making us drive safe
Are you serious. The UK roundabouts are too difficult, many drivers don't understand them and pedestrians and cyclist are unsafe.
@@d.6593 people don't understand them because they're new, in a few years they'll be normal
We've had one in North Tyneside for a year or two now and it's great to cycle on. Two downsides: 1. cars still have little idea about giving way to cyclists, I've had lots of close calls! 2. The cycling infrastructure connecting to the roundabout isn't protected or existing so you have to cycle amongst the speeding cars to get to the 'safe' bit of infrastructure.
This is the biggest issue with UK infrastructure. It's all well having these or cycle lanes on high streets, but you need to be able to get to them safely!
Pretty sure somewhere in the highway code it says the bigger and more expensive vehicle has right of way. Or at least thats how it feels riding a bike & driving a small car
I live in Cambridge and am a cyclist and car driver of 55 years experience. I've used this roundabout and other similar structures, like that on Histon Road at Gilbert Road. I've also lived in the Netherlands, principally in Amsterdam district, where I cycled extensively. Comparison of the Dutch cycling infrastructure (which is second to none) with that here in Britain (which is mostly rubbish) is the road law, and who has priority. In the Netherlands pedestrians and cyclists have top priority over all mechanised road users, and cyclists are obliged to use cycle paths whever they're available. If a car hits a cyclist, the driver is automatically the guilty party. By contrast, here, the average British driver seems to think he/she/it owns the road and can do practically whatever they like, including parking in bike lanes. Many in Britain regard cyclists as a menace that has to be tolerated. Now I'm not defending those cyclists, and increasingly those on electric scooters, who ignore the traffic rules, like riding through red traffic lights, etc., but it's essential that Britain's motorists are made to understand that pedestrians and cyclists are extremely vulnerable, and therefore require protection from motorised vehicles, especially at junctions. The best way to do that is to change the law where necessary, like the Dutch, and to ensure segregated lanes and paths are installed as an integrated network wherever possible for cyclists. And, of course, policing helps as well.
Props for doing the complete loop. Yep, I can see that style of roundabout being plopped down everywhere,
Giving way to pedestrians wishing to cross at the entrance/ exit of a roundabout is not exclusive to this one. The amendments to the Highway Code say you should give way to pedestrians wishing to cross when you are entering / exiting all roundabouts.
I am glad you raised the point that the next roundabout down the road is completely inadequate. There’s little point improving this roundabout if no other infrastructure is improved.
The trouble is that people generally don’t and if you do give way then the people behind toot because you’re stopping on the roundabout, at least this style of roundabout makes it a bit more obvious.
It’s a shame it connects to something woeful but I guess being the first one it was always going to, imagine the uproar if they decided to build 2 at the same time!
You should only stop if it is safe to do so. Stopping and obstructing the exit of a roundabout can not be considered safe unless you're the only vehicle or there's say..only one car behind you.
This is why traffic lights on roundabout exits of busy A road/trunk road roundabouts is an absolutely stupid idea. A12 pakefield water tower roundabout, A47 harfrey's roundabout (new) several roundabouts in cambridge and stevenage..
@@S.ASmith I guess you also have the “joy” of living in Lowestoft / Yarmouth then 😄
Are you certain that junctions and roundabouts are legally treated the same, in the sense that stopping on them is required? I can't seem to find a definitive answer, but my reading of the new rules didn't interpret them as being that way. The rules mention junctions and roundabouts, but not at the same time, thus implying they are different 🤷♂️ Anyone got a .gov.uk link that clears it up?
@@S.ASmiththat is true but I’ve had experiences where a driver yielded for me and my friend or just me to cross a junction or roundabout and the driver behind beeped. Sometimes ppl are so impatient and need to be respectful which is one of the largest issues on our roads today
I was living just around the corner from that monstrosity of a roundabout, it took forever to build and caused no end of problems. It's quite often confusing as hell as to where you have to look when driving as the crossings require you to keep an eye out both ways followed by the roundabout entrance straight after. Pedestrians and bikes end up coming from all angles and it's even worse as a pedestrian as you have to cross a cycle lane populated by cyclists with no lights who appear out of nowhere then watch out for two way traffic of cars on the road section. It's insanely complicated. Coming off the roundabout is rather dicey as cyclists come at the roundabout from an odd angle and you have to be visually covering a very large angle. I don't like it much, doesn't surprise me that it's not done a thing to make the area safer. Literally a few weeks after it was built a car plowed down one of the posts on the traffic islands, didn't bode well lol.
YOu're supposed to pay attention when crossing roads. Look both ways, as you're taught in kindergarten.
If there’s been no increase in “incidents”, but an increase in ped/bike use- then it’s a good investment.
@@apuldram Watch the video, incidents increased along with usage.
As someone who, until I got too old and crumbly, regularly rode a cycle, I think that design, whilst well intentioned, will probably cause as many accidents as it prevents, because with the best will in the world I don't imagine that that many UK drivers will understand (or indeed obey) the rules on them. It's not going to be much comfort, when you are hit, to know that the car driver who got confused, and ran into you, was guilty of breaking a rule that they probably didn't understand properly. So if these are ever going to work, I think we are going to need a bit of driver and probably even cyclist re-education. I do get and support the general intention... I just don't think particular iteration will actually work that well.
Just adopt our liability law as well. Here in the Netherlands, you are by default at fault if you drive the heavier vehicle. This makes the people driving a two tonne metal protective frame a lot more scared of the cyclist, which seems fair given that one has a small dent in their SUV, and the other party involved has been spread out over the asphalt over some minor confusion.
Although I must admit, putting so much pointless road marking makes stuff confusing as hell.
I live in Cambridge and the amount of near misses I've seen is breath-taking. Good old Cambs County Council at it again...
A near miss is actually still a miss. But it sounds like maybe some people need to take a little more care and pay a little more attention. One of the design features of this sort of junction is it facilitates better visibility of all users of all other users, to help mitigate the risks.
As a Cambridge resident who both drives, walks and cycles this route a lot. It was safer before the roundabout imo. Cambridge needs to fully commit to the bicycle and go big. All these half arsed measures just make it less safe for cyclists and slower for car drivers. The cycle lanes should be separated from the main highways, the roads shouldn’t have potholes the size of swimming pools either
@@FranzTraininandhow did this roundabout made it unsafer in your opinion?
Makes no sense to me.
I used to work in incident management for the telecoms industry and its no surprise that a bunch of unexpected pipes and cables where found. Usually the first time we would hear of the civil works was when a digger ripped up one or more of our fibres. And this is why costs for road works can baloon quickly as the contractors have to pay for the damage to the network.
honestly looks like a lovely roundabout, they need to make more of them, looks way better than most I have seen around in the UK, that for my low portuguese standards sometimes are even worse
I've been following some of your videos for a while, did not expect something Dutch to come along in your videos (I'm from Dutchland myself). I did not even expect to see this roundabout as the example "Dutch roundabout" but expected the so-called Turbo Roundabout" which in my sense take's some time to get used to but once you understand how this type of turbo roundabout works it's way more pleasant to drive on than our 'typical' lay-out you just shown us in this video. Keep up the good work by the way and greetings from the low-lands!
The Turbo roundabouts always have 2 entry lanes. I dont think the road is wide enough to do that here.
I was in The Netherlands on my motorcycle last year, and these things put the fear in me.
Twice as many rights of way to respect, with cyclists appear ing from nowhere without a care.
You think you are covered for no bicycles, then a pedestrian appears.
I suppose it does slow the observent amongst us down, but those who cause cyclist problems generally, wont care about particular focus on the revised priorities.
Weve got to do something though.
I was in the UK on my bicycle a few years ago, and I could hardly pass some spots because I never had a lull in traffic. Cycling infra is something I weigh heavier when choosing my trips from now in.
The roundabout is great, it's just going to take a wee bit of a culture shift.....but looking promising.
It's probably going to initially result in a lot of cars queuing up on the roundabout, blocking everyone else, until they twig you shouldn't enter if there's a car waiting for cyclists at your exit even if there's no oncoming vehicles to give way to. Also that if your exit is clear but the other car is waiting because their exit is not, you *can* enter even if you'd have to give way to them on a normal roundabout.
@@Croz89 How do you see your exit over the head high weeds and bushes on the roundabout, or predict its situation in flowing traffic? It's a stupid idea designed to push people out of their cars.
@@I_Don_t_want_a_handle Well obviously, it's designed to prioritise people on foot or bikes over people in cars, which is objectively good policy for a town or city.
The video shows short grass and plants so I've no idea what you're talking about.
@@gordon1545 Of course you don't know what I'm talking about it's outside your bubble.
Plants grow and councils are useless. This means they obscure the view across the mound.
@@I_Don_t_want_a_handle On top the guarnteed non-gardening of the greenery, how can you even see back and left of you in your mirrors? And in a van?!
When I visited the UK, I was amazed at the number of roundabouts. I was also pleasantly surprised at how well it actually works, here in the Netherlands we have quite a number of regular crossings with the resulting regular traffic jams as a bonus! Cool to see you guys adopt this design of roundabouts, in my experience it works well enough as long as everyone's aware of the situation.
As a Canadian, right side driver, I have to admit that UK roundabouts are somehow 'in the right direction'. In right-side-driving roundabout is a bit a contradiction - you need to yield to a traffic on a roundabout, but it is coming from the left, the direction to which you do not usually yield to.
0:08 It might be because I'm Dutch, but he 'give way' triangles on the cycle path before the pedestrian crossings look upside-down to me, and one is missing.
And what's that random 'left turn lane' symbol pointing towards a path for pedestrians.
Those aren't give way triangles, they are markings to show there is a speed bump.
@@ado543 Ah, that explains.
In NL, triangle shaped markings on the ground only serve one purpose as far as I know.
Speedbumps have their own dedicated markings.
@@Jeff_P-1988 I think solid triangles on the ground are only ever used for speed bumps in the UK, give way is a double dashed line, or a single dashed line at roundabouts and zebra crossings.
If I’d known you were spending time in this neck of the woods I’d have mentioned Britain’s very well bashed railway bridge on Stuntney Rd in Ely. It’s my favourite bridge to be hit by short plank-adjacent drivers. As for this thing on Queen Edith’s Way, it’s an excellent idea ruined as you say by the Addenbrookes mess of a roundabout just up the road in one direction, and the traffic lights in the other. Joined up thinking is something that we’ve heard of round here. Top stuff as ever John.
Finding utilities and unknown cables and things like this is so common it really should have been put in the risk assessment right at the beginning of the project.
In the States, there's a number you can call before digging that will send someone out to mark where underground utilities are
Should have done the standard C2 and C3 searches.
It is standard practice in the UK to carry out a utilities search prior to staring groundworks. Unfortunately, in the past, not all utility companies mapped their cable locations accurately, if at all. So you are almost always going to find unmapped service cables. This should have been anticipated in the initial cost projection.
There was a case many years ago in a local town, where the road was going to be dug up, but noone knew where the gas pipes actually were. So they went to a local care home and "dug out" an old retired worker for the gas board. He knew exactly where the pipes were, as he was in charge of the gang that buried them.
Mind you, he still had his memory so they got lucky. The council paid him for his help aswell.
@spam_slayed1481 as I recall it wasn't in prelim design.
Been a long time subscriber, yet only just discovered you had videos here, bizarre that. Great video again Sir.
As someone who both cycles and drives that roundabout, I dislike it from both perspectives.
When cycling, I prefer to take the road route, as drivers are often unaware of the need to give way, and I prefer to cycle as predictably as possible.
As a driver, you have to be extremely careful, as eScooters with no lights often shoot around the cycle portion, trusting with blind faith that drivers will see them and stop.
Maybe we just need more, to get used to them?
I happened to encounter this roundabout for the very first time today (in my car, and am pleased to report I and all cyclists and pedestrians concerned survived unscathed). Quite a coincidence to log onto RUclips tonight and see this also uploaded today!
I’m working in Cambridge at the moment and there’s a mad world of electric scooters with the riders having headphones on and watching their phone while going the wrong way round the traffic and not looking anywhere so a 38 ton truck is just behind them and they don’t know it
Those scooter riders should soon get filtered out.
Few things. I worked along the grid for years and there is an enormous amount of cables and transformers hidden all the country that are still live. They are incredibly hard to find and no land survey would have helped there. On the topic of the roundabout, please stop dividing people into boxes. Saying it's a great win for pedestrians and cyclists just continues this idea that you can't both drive a car and walk and cycle places. It's a great win for everyone. These roundabouts are empirically proven to decrease deaths, over and over again. Which might have also been worth saying.
Hahahaha love the outro music - great video as usual John. Thanks
Next step: adequate policing/monitoring/whatevering of cyclists who are, invariably, the biggest prats on the road/pavement next to jumped up "lads" in their black hatchback with an auditorium's sound system in the boot.
Saw one using the pavement instead of the two-way cycle lane on the other side of the road, another went through red lights and across a pedestrian crossing as it went green, and I often have to make way on the pavement for them. Also so many bikes being used in the dark with no lights or reflective attachments.
Ahem. Little rant there. This is an interesting idea but I wonder if it's over-engineered? I imagine that drivers would initially find it overwhelming.
You saw a cyclist use a pavement instead of a cycle lane? Wow. Thank goodness no cars help themselves to the pavement for inconsiderate parking, dangerous parking, driving at inappropriate speeds for the conditions in built up areas, thank goodness cars aren't the single biggest cause of head injuries to not just pedestrians and cyclists but also to car drivers. Definitely those cyclists being lax with the rules that need the harshest penalties.
Site note about a cyclist crossing a road not in accordance with pedestrian crossing lights/rules - have a think about how we treat jaywalking in this country. When there's no inconvenience to a driver, we really don't even blink if a pedestrian runs across a road. Why does an equally unprotected little cyclist rolling across, out of everyone's way, suddenly warrant such clamour? Cars, sure, they're typically over a tonne of metal box with momentum and often speed well out of proportion with "people", so it's a different matter. But cyclists? No, we must just blindly hate on them because ya know, England.
I saw a motorist driving in excess of the speed limit the other day. Why aren't you condemning all motorists for his actions?
@@mLyonJE You're obviously one of those bad cyclists who is constantly a danger to pedestrians and now offended that people like you are being called out
to the over-engineered part: this roundabout is severely under-engineered in my opinion. I haven't studied infrastructure at all, but I guess living in the netherlands has made it abundantly clear why some roundabouts work and others don't, and this fits firmly in the don't category. Biggest issue is the almost 90° turns you have to make on the cycling lanes, that's not how people move.
to the overwhelming part: it's a lot simpler when you're on car-level, as you can only see the important parts of the roundabout, similar to the magic roundabout in swindon that's wild from above and just 3 mild turns from ground level when actually driving. The most overwhelming part of it for me was the excessive amount of lines painted on the road
Yep, you come to Paris, and it looks like cyclists do not have a a concept of traffic lights, including the ones for pedestrians. London cyclists are not much better either. Once in the City last summer it took me 4 light cycles to cross a road, because cyclists would never stop even when I had a green (it was also one of the lanes where cyclists go both directions that I had to cross before crossing the street - so you had to look both ways in order not to be overrun. When you reached the part with the cars, you felt that you made it and now it is easy :) )
That's the biggest issue. It's pointless if the infrastructure connected to it is woefully inadequate as, looking on Google maps, there are no cycle lanes leading up to it or in the local area. I cycle quite often around the city I live in and I'd rather take £2.2million of investment in sort of OK city wide cycle infrastructure, than one roundabout.
It's the thing about dutch style roundabouts , and why they only seem to work in the Netherlands is because nearly every roundabout in residential areas in the Netherlands are built this way and have next to no variation in them. This way you know what to expect as a driver, cyclist, and pedestrian. What I've noticed about this one is the huge ammout of road markings. To me it almost seems to make things even more confusing.
I drive pass this roundabout prior to and since conversion to its current form during my commute into the office. The biggest issue I have is multiple fold. The junction is too small really for a roundabout of this kind, which means that 1. there is insufficient buffer space between the pedestrian crossings and the cycle crossing. So, when there is a decent size vehicle stopping for the cycle lane on entry of the roundabout, or for the pedestrian crossing when exiting, it's back is more than likely hanging over and blocking the other crossing. 2. Coupled with that the heavy traffic (both vehicle and cycle), I find myself having to approach dead slow in order to give myself enough time to look for anything coming through 5 different directions in between the two crossings and the roundabout itself at the approach. Worse, when exiting, the cycle lane tends to be at the left quarter blind spot which I have to look over, all the while approaching another pedestrian crossing where someone could walk in front and is now no longer within line of sight. This becomes particularly dangerous after daylight as the lighting is poorly set up and, IMO, insufficient at the approaches to help picking out cyclist and pedestrians.
Incidentally, I was out in the Netherlands for holiday last year and when through a number of these roundabouts. The spacing is far more adequate with good buffer not just between the cycle and pedestrian crossings, but also between the cycle crossing and the roundabout itself. This gives time for drivers to tackle each crossing one after the other, unlike the Addenbrookes one which could be really overwhelming and easily lose situation awareness. This roundabout really needed far more spacing to make it work, and in my opinion, far more dangerous than before it was converted.
As a Dutchie I also noticed the spacing issue you're talking about.
How long did you have to film for before you captured a cyclist actually using the cycle lane rather than the road ? Wouldn't work round here, because Cambridge University Netball Teams...
Jon on it again, with planning for the roundabout started in 2015, with construction starting almost immediately in 2019... which of course was delayed and opened in August 2020 only 4 months late.....
Still whilst delivered late it was at least massively over budget.... brilliant 👏
At that pace maybe the whole neighborhood will have the upgraded infrastructure by the year 3000, assuming we didn't blow up the planet and moved to Mars before then.
Noticed a lot of cars queuing over the zebra crossing, because there isn't room between the cycle lane and the crossing.
I love the giant right turn arrow made up of the tactile paving in the overhead shot 😅
Cambridge Council are desperate to introduce a congestion charge, which would include the hospital, which is on the outskirts. So you'd end up paying £5 on top of the nearly £5 for parking at the hospital. There are park and ride places but the nearest one has restricted parking and is frequently full.
Good, there are too many self entitled drivers in cambridge.
Congestion charges have nothing to do with the environment of improving air quality it’s another racket by local government. Look at London, thousands of cameras installed and not a single tree planted. Because apparently you can stop climate change just by giving money to the government.
@@olivere5497😂 yes because cyclist’s aren’t self entitled at all are they.
“We want cycle lanes wah wah wah”
Pay for them yourselves.
Yes, because when you are sick what you really want is to walk across a big car park, get on a bus and then walk to the hospital from the stop.
@@theghostofsabertache9049 then when they get them they don't even use them.
Good music choice for the ending! 🙂
Is it only me who was just a little sad that ' the magic roundabout ' theme wasn't somehow included in this, " another exciting episode " ...
Just kidding 😉 another great little adventure.. thanks for sharing.
As a medical student, I've cycled the Fendon Road route incredibly frequently, and can say that it has such a variety of roundabouts, of which I always feel most safe on this roundabout both as a pedestrian and as a cyclist.
I have to take my 44t artic that way every now and again. It’s terrible to try and get round. You also have to block the crossing and cycle way due to the length of the truck. This is supposed to be the ring road main route!
My first thought when I saw it was "that's going to a nightmare for anyone in an artic".
There’s barely a car length between the crossing and roundabout as you say.
So even in a car it’s impossible to use both safely and legally. I can imagine it would be horrendous in an HGV
So to stop a proper distance back (tyres and tarmac) without illegally blocking you in theory would need to give way before the zebra… which is obviously far too early to commit
You didn’t mention that as soon as it opened the road tarmac immediately started breaking up and had to be relaid. Also if you’re in a van with no rear side windows then as soon as you’re on the roundabout you have no chance at all of seeing if there is a cyclist about to cross the exit you are about to leave the roundabout on
that's why there is space between exiting the roundabout and encountering the cycle and pedestrian crossing area.
that space gives you the time to exit and look around for any oncoming cyclist and/or pedestrians
@@ChristiaanHW Not when you've got other traffic up your chuff, who are highly likely to just drive into you if you do as you are supposed to. Just because you stopped doesn't mean you'll stay stopped if someone shunts into you from behind.
@@KidarWolf so because drivers can't follow the law, and stop where they need to.
they deserve to be the king of the road?
seems to me to many people are able to get a drivers license then.
if people can't/won't follow the law of the road they don't deserve to drive a car.
@@ChristiaanHW Yes, too many people do get licenses who shouldn't, absolutely.
"Start digging and worry about it lated"
The Dutch have the "klic" system: a geospatial database that has all cables and pipes underground. Every project that puts a spade in the ground is required by Law to check with that system beforehand, usually as part of the bidding process. It is run by the Dutch Cadastre, Land Registry and Mapping Agency, a government agency.
My first thought when I saw the location was "what's the point when you have to cross the waking nightmare that is Hills road 200 yards further on?"
You have to start somewhere
Big difference is that in Netherlands cyclists must not use the road if there is a cycle path.
I've no issue with that being implemented in the UK, but once the cycling infrastructure is as good as the driving infrastructure.
If there's a half arsed cycle lane with parked cars, dangerous drain covers and a give way at every side street, I'm not using it.
That's only on specific roads, not the case in a town centre
That only applies to bike lanes that are on roads, so is irrelevant here.
If you ever see a cyclist riding on the road when there's a bike path or lane, it's because the infrastructure is shit.
@@shm5547 Yeah it only applies where there's a bike lane on the actual road, not to segregated infrastructure as in this video. People love to believe and recycle things they wish were true.
Cycle lanes in the UK always make the road too narrow to be cycled on. Achieving a similar outcome. 😢
Just looking at that area through Dutch eyes. Queen Edith's way, the A1134, Cherry Hinton road, the A1307 and Fendon road look to be through roads that would be classified as gebeidsontsluitingswegen (GOW) which means make bicycle paths, ideally seperated from car traffic if there's enough room for it. As for the intersections between those roads only this roundabout looks safe for cyclists
All the smaller roads between those roads would be erftoegangswegen (ETW) so local access streets. Ideally you only want local residents using these, measures might be necessary to calm traffic and to prevent through traffic. No seperation needed there between cars and bicycles when traffic is sufficiently light and slow. The road surface of these in the Netherlands are mostly klinkers or bricks which is a traffic calming measure in and of itself.
Coleridge road seems to be in-between a GOW and ETW now, my best guess is make it an ETW and only have Mill road, Cherry Hinton road and A1134 that surround that area as GOW.
But all in all it's a system-wide approach to make a city pleasant for cyclists, cars and have nice neighbourhoods. This roundabout is nice, but it's an oasis that won't be used much if you don't look at the broader picture
Such infra works in a proper way if it's commonplace so everyone know what to expect and how to behave. In the Netherlands its a standard layout for most roundabouts within city/village limits where speedslimits at 50/30 kph that traffic on the main road gives way to cyclists. Outside city/villagelimits the speedlimits are higher so there it's reversed and at roundabouts cyclist have to give way to motorized traffic.
That middle finger at 2:19 😂
It's just personal I think
Glad to hear Cambridge wants to be a cycling and walking city, can we close all the junctions it has on the A14 so traffic can flow round it instead of being delayed by the one junction hoppers?
While I wish I could agree with you, quite frankly, those one junction hoppers are using that due to roadworks which were inadequately planned and have reduced routes within Cambridge to one way traffic along only a handful of roads. No joined up thinking at all in planning which roads to work on - no, they'd rather cut off entire neighbourhoods for months, sometimes years, at a time.
It's worth noting that as of the most recent highway code update, DVSA consider both the entrance and exit of a roundabout to be a "junction" and under the new heirarchy of road users, motor vehicles should yield to pedestrians wanting to cross when both entering and exiting a roundabout.
(As an aside, "junction" isn't actually defined in the code, and when pressed the DVSA original responded with the dictionary definition before confirming, yes, you do have to yield.)
Excellent thank you Jon
The issue is that one junction in isolation will make zero difference. In an ideal world you would be looking to improve the junctions along the entire route in one go... but since the highways contractors couldn't even be bothered to get up to date Statutory Undertakers plans (which is Junction Design 101 over at National Highways) that's really asking far too much
Usually councils do not have money to do much in one go
Great to see roundabouts like this being installed throughout the UK 👍
I'm a cyclist and a motorist, by far my favourite cycling infrastructure is when the cars and the bikes have walls and or bollards to stop us crashing into each other or completely different routes! This roundabout relies on the cars spotting the bikes... Even dressed up like a giant reflective Christmas borble it feals like i'm wearing an invisabilty cloak some days! And others activly a target on my back.
One thing that kinda shocked me when I re-did some driving lessons in the UK, is that the method they teach you for navigating roundabouts in the UK is quite different from the Dutch method. In The Netherlands there are basically no 2-lane roundabouts and the ones that do exist are spiral roundabouts with physical barriers between the lanes. This means you never really have to worry much about other traffic on the roundabout. So your biggest concern coming off the roundabout is pedestrians and cyclists. During your exam, your expected to look out for them meticulously.
In the UK, on the other hand, exiting the roundabout is all about making sure no one is going to cut you off when leaving the roundabout. This means that during your exit, your attention is in a very different part of the roundabout, away from the cyclists and pedestrians on the edge. Especially when you're on the outside lane while leaving, you're expected to check the inside lane to see if no one is overtaking you while you exit. So the consequence of that is that you're looking AWAY from the edge of the roundabout where all of the vulnerable road users are. This is honestly insane road design to me. 2 lane non-spiral roundabouts are incredibly dangerous.
£2.2m for a roundabout?!
oh that’s relatively cheap considering how much other councils that shall remain nameless have spent over the years on countless “improvement” projects😂
With the ground cables being uncovered it explains the steep increase in price. As for the base price of around 1 mil, it's on the high end for a project this scale. The simplest of roundabouts we have here in the Netherlands go for about 100k to 200k depending on what needs replacing. This is a slightly bigger one (wider islands, wide pedestrian crossing, space for a vehicle to wait after they passed the ped/cyclist crossing) so I'd expect it to go more towards 750k.
@@ringgeest11 of course any significant change in scope from the original design will result in a large bill from the contractor to the client (ie the council) but the several hundred thousands pounds i imagine it cost to divert these cables could have been reduced somewhat had the designer done their due diligence on the GPR scan/ clash detection. Fundamentally it would have been an issue either way but because it was likely found by the contractor during construction, the costs were always likely to go up.
This is one of the big problems with infrastructure in the UK - it's simultaneously over-engineered and under-designed. The Dutch follow a very, very standard set of templates that are the same across the country, and they lay it quickly and efficiently. The videos showing it getting done are really satisfying. I don't know what's wrong with us, we're the least competent country in north and west Europe.
If it saves one life, is it worth it?
Did i hear that right, had to rewind that bit. . . £2.2M for a poxy bit of tarmac in a circular formation? Lmfao. . . Hail the state. So good at their job and our taxes, they dont need regulating themselves. Jeez 2.2 wow, for a frikin red path. I could go on. . .
Wait until you find out how much 1 mile of road costs to build.
You need to come to Sheffield! Many road oddities. Including a very Dutch roundabout currently being built!
Got one in Swadlincote with pedestrian crossing on three of the entry’s and exits. It’s a pain, especially as it’s raised so you can’t see till the last min pedestrians using the crossing
Springfield rd, Midland rd, Union rd and Newhall rd junction
How's about a radical idea. The council could use some of the money given to them for road maintenance etc, to fill in the multitude of potholes. Bikes are very susceptible to potholes, as are cars, and pedestrians. That idea could stop a good number of accidents. - Just a thought 🤔
Or cyclists could pay for their own overpriced poorly planned roundabouts rather than shaft motorists for the cost.
@@theghostofsabertache9049 they already do. in fact they even pay for all the highways they don't even get to cycle on.
at least 99% of people pay income tax and VAT, and those are used to pay for infrastructure.
it would be nice if roads could be paid for by only using road tax, fuel tax and other car related taxes. but those taxes raise only a small part of all the money needed to pay for all roads.
if you really paid for your fair share for the roads you use you would have to pay a few hundred pounds for a liter of fuel/gas.
@@theghostofsabertache9049 Think vehicle and fuel duties pay for roads? Think again. A car owner will pay less in those duties to the Exchequer than a top rate earner pays in income tax and NI, however they choose to travel. Not that any of us is entitled to more or less return individually depending on our tax because taxation is a social contract, not a fee. Much of the capital for government spending comes from borrowing, which is cheap for states with reliable taxation systems because they are, for want of a better phrase, good for it. Tax and excise revenues are only part of the mix.
We don't just have Dutch roundabouts in Cambridge, they've started doing some positively daft stuff where cyclists and pedestrians utilize a roundabout around a cross intersection, which is just bananas, to be honest. A whole lot of money spent for no fundamental improvement over what had already existed, and with roadworks continuing on the main road the intersection is situated on, it hasn't increased throughflow at all, just a massive waste of time, and space, and destroying what little green space we had in that area in order to do it.
The "best" roundabout is the "Stern" in Bremen. It has six streets feeding it, plus a tram that goes through the middle, and of course bike lanes and pedestrians crossing (it's trams > bikes > pedestrians > cars in there). It's an absolute nightmare to navigate through there, and very accident prone.
I worked at the university press - the amount of motor vehicles in the city area has dramatically increased over the last forty years - these systems work in holland because the whole system seperates walkers cycles and cars - and we are still building brand new developments in other areas making the same mistakes - im a car driver - and liked driving in holland as I had no fear of going near a cyclist -
Given the changes to the highway code a couple of years ago that mean we're all supposed to give way to pedestrians and cyclists at junctions (which roundabouts are) anyway I'm much more likely to risk doing so where it's so clearly marked. Until now I've only been sticking to it on approach to the roundabout rather than exits, or if it's extremely quiet (no risk to someone hitting me up the rear while i wait to exit), and in that scenario it doesnt really save any time for anyone anyway as i couldve just cleared...
Yeah, the rule for giving way coming *off* the roundabout is stupid in many ways. At least on the approach to a roundabout you are naturally slowing down, and the roundabout only works smoothly when there is no congestion on the roundabout itself, so getting cars to stop on it is madness (light controlled roundabouts are different in this respect)
This rule does not apply to roundabouts as they are classed separately from junctions. The rule says you should be aware of pedestrians crossing rather than having to give way to them.
When I first saw 'Dutch Roundabout', I thought it was a new position...like a Dutch Rudder, only more bendy?
I like that there is room for a car between the the pedestrian crossing and the yield line. You can then ignoringe the pedestrian behind you if there is is high traffic in the roundabout..
I think you summed it up when you mentioned many councils adopting this as a solution. This has been common practice with highway authorities for decades; they find a solution and apply it whatever the problem, or lack of a problem. It all started with gyratory systems in the 1970s imposed in nearly every town, usually incorporating service access routes creating conflict with service vehicles and a barrier to pedestrians.
Great idea
wrong
@@PointNemo9wrong
@@Hippowdon121 It's a bad idea because it puts cars, bicycles, and pedestrians all in conflict with esch other
There has been a similar roundabout at Tuckton near Christchurch for several years, there is often a queue of cars leading up to it since the change. Must do wonders for local air polution.
Sure, it's *cyclists* causing air pollution...
In the real world, cities that have put in cycling infrastructure like Paris, Seville, Copenhagen and Frieburg have seen a big reduction in car traffic and a reduction in air pollution and emissions.
@@gordon1545 No, I believe it is the queues of cars sitting there idling for minutes causing the pollution rather than the occaisonal cyclist.
Yes cars should have priority, because there are very important people driving them...
Thought everyone was supposed to be driving electric vehicles. No movement. No pollution.
The way I look at this is that you have to start somewhere. One piece of mobility infrastructure doesn't make a system, but once more is added on then you can get some momentum. In any case, just start, like anything in life.
You got it right. The reason most "Dutch" roundabouts work in The Netherlands is because they fit in the existing infrastructure. One bike (and pedestrian) friendly roundabout isn't solving issues with mixed use roads. The second reason why Dutch roundabouts work in The Netherlands is because give way to bikes (and pedestrians) is very common, the priority rules are consistent for the whole road network. How many intersections are there in the UK where bike lanes have priority?
Even more local councils will soon go bust, spending all that on a roundabout.
Nah, they have a never ending money pit ... our pockets.
I live in Cambridge and have used that roundabout before and after… we have a council here that is all anti motorist and wastes money… this roundabout a case in point… spend our money on fixing potholes and EV infrastructure, etc…
And I bet the cyclists still ignore the safe cycle path round the roundabout.
I'll take that bet. Watch the video, all cyclists I see are on the safe cycle path.
Peak British humour and information. Please do more on anything and everything 😂
Looking at this as a Dutch person, this roundabout looks a bit unnatural and overcomplicated.
The ones in the Netherlands feel smaller and less forced I guess.
Om Milton Road they are constructing a car priority roundabout, which feels very much like a missed opportunity.
Classic Cambridge City Council
I have driven in Belgium where they have this type of roundabout, well I came across them in Ypres. They seem to work well there but the speed of motoring there is a lot slower and motorist much more patient and courteous than here in the UK. It is a pleasure to drive in Belgium.
It is also a pleasure to cycle in Belgium
I legit piled into the side of someone's car at a roundabout because he wouldn't yield. The guy was looking at me as it happened. I assume he thought I didn't have right away because my vehicle only had 2 wheels.
It's a bit odd that councils end up picking up the tab when utilities don't know where their cables are. There _was_ an assessment done on the utility locations before this roundabout was built, and the ones that utilities owned up to were budgeted in. But BT/Openreach had loads under here they had simply forgotten about. And it's not them that ends up paying for a loads of extra work and several months delay, it's the council. If the utilities had to swallow the costs of the extra work they might try a bit harder to keep track.
The new highway code Rule H2 kind of makes it all a bit redundant, as in theory everyone should give pedestrians crossing on the entry/exit of the roundabout priority.
No-one actually does that though!
I live in Cambridge, have lived many years in the Netherlands and Belgium and I sorely miss the infrastructure. When I first moved to Cambridge from NL I was actually scared of cycling.
It's been very funny the past few years seeing people lose their shit at this roundabout 😂 the UK is still a very car-centric country, and it'll take a while to change people's perspective.