A lot of people forget Dooku was in fact a pretty bad person. Like just because he accurately criticized the Jedi doesn't mean he was any better himself.
@@pancakes8670 Didn't the Tales of the Jedi episode actually kind of shows his hypocrisy. That the Republic is corrupt, that is not a lie. But the fact that Dooku ends up becomes worst than those politicians ends up making him look like a hypocrite
Serenno. I was struck by his exploitation of his home world in the Bad Batch. I thought he was better than that. I admired him. Until the fact was revealed to me, in the bad batch.
What honestly amazes me is that they were so ready for the war to end and certain it would with Dooku’s death, nobody on the council thought to have Anakin personally debrief them the details. There’s a big difference between slaying an enemy in battle and having him at your mercy to stand trial, only to decapitate him because the Chancellor tells you to.
@Lawrence_Talbot i see your point Anakin was reluctant to kill Dooku and Palpatine forced his hands, while Dooku just glared at Palpatine in disbelief before pleading Anakin for mercy, even after, Anakin couldn't live down the fact that he killed Dooku not just because it was against the Jedi code but also because it lead him to question his life as a hero.
@@Lawrence_Talbot one can argue that if anakin didn't listen to palpatine then palpatine could manipulate events to make it look like the jedi are acting outside the interest of the republic, the same way palpatine would of manipulated events in that way had the jedi not expelled ahsoka to hand over to the republic
@@Omnipulsar my point is on the Jedi’s lack of debrief not on Anakin’s lack of refusing Palps. Had they actually asked Anakin to detail what happened instead of Obi Wan simply telling them what happened (despite being unconscious when it happened), they could’ve A) been more alerted to Anakin’s tipping into the Dark Side and B) been more alerted to Palpatine being the Sith. Instead they simply shrugged off a very big hint because they were just glad the war would end soon
@@overlordelektro7940 You make good points about Anakin. As the passage Geetsly read pointed out, even with how much anger he had for Dooku for all the war he started had caused to his friends and the Galaxy as a whole he still was holding back somewhat, even after seeing Obi-Wan go down, despite many of the Dark Side tendency he had he always tried his best to keep those things in check even when Obi-Wan, Padme, Ahsoka, or someone else wasn't around to keep him in check, because he did want to be a good Jedi like Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, but of course, Palaptine had to get involved at this moment, and like all things Palpatine gets involved in he ensure the worst outcome can happen, he did it with the war, he did it with the Republic, and he did it with his apprentices.
to be fair, if you have only seen the star wars movies, they dont go that in depth into his character, and the majority of star wars fans never got that deep into legends.
Anyone think qui-gon kept obi-wan away from dooku when he was young because he saw through his masters mask, but still held out hope.....it's like a man blocking his dad from meeting his son to protect them both......
Qui-Gon and Rael were both concerned about Dooku's occasional brushes with the dark side, as was Sifo and Sifo's master (Can't recall her name). All four of them knew Dooku could use Sith Lightning when he got angry or desperate enough, heck he used lightning so save Qui-Gon once, and also to save himself and Sifo from a dark side cult, but all of them decided that it was okay because he was so self-disciplined that he could keep that darkness in check, which was sort of true until Palpatine came into the picture and started messing with his head. But really, in hindsight they might have been better served by tattling on Dooku to Yoda. But yeah, Qui-Gon might have been a little wary of Dooku. Still its Qui-Gon's death that really broke Dooku.
He goes on a rant about the corruption of imperium society whenever he learns about an inquisitor making a deal with a xeno to save an entire segmentum rather than sacrificing the segmentum to kill the xeno
Hellbrecht even argued with Guilleman when he came to deliver crucial reinforcements. Black templars are so zealous i almost can't take them seriously @@bw5020
No. The Imperium is too liberal in how it rules for Dooku’s tastes. As long as you pay your tithes and follow the broad strokes of the Imperial Truth, the Imperium doesn’t care how you run things.
Given that Lorian Nod threw Dooku under the bus for stealing a holocron… it almost parallels Barriss Offee throwing Ahsoka under the bus for bombing the Jedi Temple.
@@ryanmoore6259 can you BLAME Dooku? He saw corruption in individual Jedi like Nod, the Council and in the Republic Senate that he became disillusioned with the people he was defending.
@@EricGraham94I can absolutely blame Dooku. The state of the republic did not warrant a manufactured galactic war that claimed billions of lives. I’m sorry but there’s a point where you got to say “your frustration was understandable, but your response is unforgivable”. And I mean, if this ain’t it, what is?
Considering Princess Leia was also an aristocrat, I like to imagine that Darth Tyrannus once called someone a "foul-mouthed, scruffy-looking nerf herder." Only he would have said it with calm contempt and killed that "person" (air quotes from his perspective) immediately afterwards.
I think there’s a difference between canon Dooku and Legends Dooku after Tales of the Jedi 😂😂 Yeah I’ve read the Revenge of the Sith novelization, Dooku is a MONSTER
Dooku was more of an idealist in canon who got manipulated whereas in legends he was more of a person seeking power while disguising it under fighting against the corruption of the republic.
Dooku is a monster in TCW too, which may I remind you is canon. So much so that people dislike his TCW interpretation because they believe him to be an idealist
@@UnitedWars Dooku in TCW just feels like a generic villain who is not even as entertaining as Palpatine to make up for it. Maul was way more exciting and fun in TCW.
He became a Sith Lord. Enough said. But like Anakin, we see the influence of a flawed character, the influence of The Dark Side, AND the machinations of one of the most purely evil characters in fiction (Lucas said his inspiration for Palpatine was The Devil)…. …and the result is we see a basically good man with good intentions get corrupted to the point he becomes the corruption he intended to destroy. The Abyss stated into him and found him wanting. I think it is human nature to feel some compassion for someone who set out to do good but got lost, as opposed to a monster like Palpatine who is drive by pure malice and selfishness.
Geetsly, could you do a video contrasting Alpha-17 and Rex? Essentially they were supposed to be the same character with the name changed just because there would have been too many main characters whose names started with A. Both clones are among the best in the clone army and right-hand men to Anakin Skywalker, yet they become different men. They’re basically representative of the differences between Legends and Canon Clones.
Nah cause then it’s leads to meat riders like you making excuses for all his atrocities and cheering him on while he becomes the exact villain that you seem to hate in palpatine so much. Dooku was never a good man, all he ever was, was a fascist, racist self important prick who thought himself and his ideas were perfect and no one else was worth listening too and only he could be the savior that everyone would worship. And look what happened his actions caused the death and torture of millions of not billions of people and caused generations of family’s to suffer through war and destruction, and for all that he dies on the ground like an idiot because like always happens with these people he was manipulated by someone who was actually smart unlike dooku who is an jerk who thinks he’s an angel, go away, plus it’s just way more entertaining to watch a villain who knows he’s evil and is having fun with it, then a sniveling coward who’s always talking about some “oh but your side is worse” head ahhh
@ He was a Sith. Darth Tyrannus. He was simply never Sidious’ first choice as an apprentice. Like so many others, Palpatine used him, then eliminated him when he was no longer useful.
I always liked how Dooku believed himself immune to Corruption and the failings of emotion, but *the* event that led him to abandon the order and start down the dark path was the death of his former, and finest student. I also think that the nature of dark side allows one to justify one's own character flaws: "I am not truly responsible for my degradation, I have not lost anything, i have always been like this, the Dark Side merely showed me who I truly am." This is a lie. The dark side strips us of our positive traits and convinces us that that is strength, I believe that Dooku truly did have noble qualities once. That he may have had reduced emotional affect to start, but he truly did have affection for Yoda, Qui-Gon, and others, in his own way (See Dark Rendezvous).
Palpatine would be the exception to the dark side stripping you of positive traits considering when his father cradled him when he was just born Palpatine fought him off, I wouldn't be surprised if he was just born evil
@@WarLord645 Not always. Contrary to many Sith who succumbed to the dark side's emotional desolation, Darth Marr's commitment to the Empire's survival became his primary motivation. By prioritizing the Empire's interests over his own, Marr demonstrated a utilitarian philosophy that stands in stark contrast to the self-centered pursuits that typify Sith behavior. Further challenging traditional Sith views, Marr's respect for his enemies, particularly the Jedi, marked another significant divergence. His respect for Jedi Grand Master Satele Shan-not merely as an adversary but as an equal-underscores a level of acknowledgment for the Jedi that is rare among Sith, who typically view the Jedi with contempt or as inferior. Over the decades, his power in the dark side eroded much of his emotion, rendering him more a vessel of will than a man driven by personal desires or fears. This transformation, while enhancing his effectiveness as a leader, also stripped him of what many would consider essential humanity-a point that could be seen as aligning with Sith ideals or, alternatively, as a deviation towards a form of self-sacrifice uncommon among Sith. Following his death, Darth Marr achieved something extraordinarily rare for a Sith: he manifested as a Force ghost. This ability, typically reserved for Jedi who are deeply attuned to the light side of the Force, suggests that Marr's understanding and use of the Force transcended traditional Sith teachings. Qui Gon Jinn told Yoda that the Sith can never achieve it; it comes only through the release of self, not the exaltation of self. It comes through compassion, not greed. However Marr's creed is “Life is the enemy. Death is our solace.” He wasn't greedy or afraid of death. He never involved himself in the Sith power struggle and even opposed the Emperor himself. He didn't exalt himself. He inflicted pain not out of greed but out of the genuine belief that conflict benefits the individual and is essential for the growth of society. A form of darwinistic altruism. His devotion to the empire caused him to be stripped of emotions and most of his humanity. In other words he has hollowed himself as the ultimate sacrifice. Upon his own ascension to Dark Lord of the Sith, Darth Vectivus retained the principles and ethical standing of his previous existence. With that foundation he avoided the trappings of the Sith who preceded him; he was never motivated by galactic domination or an all-consuming hatred of the Jedi, and he instead chose to live the remainder of his days luxuriously in the company of his loved ones. However, Vectivus was still a ruthless individual, partly connected to his background as a businessman, and was willing to do whatever it took to succeed, a trait he promoted in others as well. Despite his ruthlessness, Darth Vectivus possessed a softer side, with regard to the young of animals. He opined that nearly every creature was visually appealing in their youth. Darth Vectivus' self-discipline and preexisting code of ethics allowed him to remain fair and balanced without succumbing to the lure of power which plagued many of the Sith Lords who preceded him. He eventually returned to the mine and maintained a plentiful existence in the company of friends and loved ones alike. Violence, galactic ambition, and the eradication of the Sith's philosophical Jedi rivals were of no consequence to him; his contention was to simply immerse himself in Sith lore and study the galaxy. Upon his return to the mine years later as a fully fledged Sith Lord, Vectivus built a mansion in the heart of the asteroid's dark side potency. Darth Vectivus valued his skills in business and money management, and recorded his various principles in his own holocron. He eventually died at his Home, having lived out the remainder of his days surrounded by friends and family.
@@sammit8962 Man, Vectivus is so cool to think about. He won’t kill your family or loved ones, he’ll just bleed you dry in court if you wrong him lmao.
@@WarLord645 As the presentation showed, the definition of "great man" is entirely subjective. While Dooku had some positive traits, his reasons for being a Jedi were entirely wrong. It was completely based on enforcing his will on to other life forms, which is completely antithetical to the Jedi way. The Dark Side didn't necessarily turn him into a fascist and a narcissist. He was those things even as a Jedi.
Even if he wasn’t particularly sympathetic he still has maybe my favorite lightsaber in Star Wars (tied with Roblio Darté) and mastered the best lightsaber form.
If your priority is dueling, yes, absolutely. Personally, I prefer Obi Wan and his complete mastery of Form 3, as it's the epitome of what a Jedi should be.
He was superior, but he also had a superiority complex that led him to falsely believe he was more superior than he really was. That's why he died the way he did.
I still see him as sympathetic but because he is a great example of good men walking into hell thinking they are doing good. One day you look into the mirror to see a monster only to reject the truth staring back at you. That is why his story is sad. No by all means, his actions are not forgivable. Sympathetic does not mean good guy
@@gdragonlord749the point he was never a good man, he never possessed compassion he only cared for his image. Any good he did was to feed his own ego and make himself look better. He was a literal facist
He's proof that a lot of roads to hell are paved with good intentions. He sincerely felt the common people of the galaxy were being more and more forgotten in favor of those with power and money (credits), wanted to change that and the Order and ended up falling to the Dark Side once Palpatine wormed his way into his brain.
@gdragonlord749 except he wasn't a good man. Unlike Anakin who turned because he wanted to save everyone he cared for, so does fit your description, Dooku was a human supremacist .
"Um actually he was sympathetic and the Jedi were the bad guys, because anyone like that is ALWAYS EVIL and all villains are just downtrodden and-" The worst people are always the ones who have never suffered. He wore the name "Tyrannus" with pride. That alone should have been most of what you needed to know. Amazing vid.
@@ElliotKeaton One of the defining characteristics of the Sith is supposed to be the wearing of your new name. "Darth" is the title of lordship, and your name to associate with it embodies your rebirth within the Dark Side. He is not _Count Dooku_ as the galaxy believes, just as his master is not Sheev Palpatine. His name *_was_* Darth Tyrannus, and Dooku was a façade he wore for the sake of claiming his ancestor's power and wealth, and the aristocracy he had always earned. Much is to be said of Darth Vader: Anakin Slywalker had ceased to be the man behind the robe the moment he pridefully drove his blade into a group of children, as he believed was for the sake of saving them from their future as slaves to the Empire. It had already been Darth Vader who fought Obi-Wan on Mustafar, long before he was forced to don his mask. That the movies largely ignore Tyrannus' Sith name and all but never addressed it, is a distinct _failure_ in the storytelling; one which never ceased to upset me.
It also doesn't help that Clone Wars has often used humans to represent the more rational, moderate, and sympathetic Separatists while the comically evil ones tend to be aliens. Which is understandable from a narrative standpoint.
not all but yeah. trench isn't. he is just shown to be scary to fight because of how good he was at winning now because he was evil or something. but he's the only one that comes to mind.
I always saw dooku a clinical Psychopath not a sociopath because sociopaths can feel all forms of emotions especially love and compassion but psychopaths can’t and they pretend to feel those emotions Palpatine is a clear sociopath but Dooku is definitely a Psychopath
@@Yang_1230Have to disagree, it's the opposite, Palpatine couldn't feel Vader's turn to the light side because he doesn't understand love, he only understands power, he's all about power. Dooku is quite different, he understands the principle of power and knows full well in his interior that he's doing it for what he believes, even if it means betraying everything and everyone. Vader's different, he's all about loyalty to the ones he love.
@@maxisdead2153 Dooku literally can’t feel or understand emotional connections the fact he had to pretend to feel emotions he can’t feel he gives more evidence Dooku was born with biochemistry inability to feel empathy for others that’s literally a clinical psychopath While Palpatine Shows traits of both Psychopathy and Sociopathy he’s definitely both but Dooku is Truly a Psychopath
@@muhamedquraishi No. Sociopaths lack a conscience. What drove Dooku was outrage over the corruption and injustices tolerated by The Republic, its corrupt government and a complacent Jedi Order. Sociopaths don’t care about such things. What happened to Dooku is what happens when you fall down the slippery slope of radicalism: My Ends Justify My Means. Palpatine was the Psychopath. He cared for nothing and no one but himself and his own desire for power. The only two people he remotely cared for (albeit in a very twisted way) were his master ed Darth Plagueis, and his apprentice Darth Vader. He ended the former and was quite cruel to the latter.
Imagine how different things would've been if Obi-Wan woke back up after Dooku knocked him out. Obi-Wan probably would've saved Dooku, and maybe (big emphasis on maybe) gotten Dooku to confess something about Palpatine
I would say in the beginning he had good intentions, I understand his frustration with the Jedi order and the problems with the Republic. Sometimes I wonder what if Dooku stayed in the Jedi Order and tried to do everything he could to help? Or what if he tried to become chancellor instead and introduce reforms to help people and deal with corruption in the Republic? There are so many things that he could have done differently but instead he is manipulated by Palpatine and becomes another pawn for his plan.
I also want to mention I guess another reason why I find Dooku fascinating is because Sir Christopher Lee is one of my favourite actors and I love his portrayal of Count Dooku, Count Dracula and Saruman. Plus it's always a joy watching him speak about Swords and other stuff, he was a legend and may he rest in peace.
There's something I find extremely poetic about Dooku's death. In Tales of the Jedi, we saw that he betrayed his friend, Master Yaddle, and murdered her in cold-blood, even though she was only trying to help him. So, in episode 3, there he is, on his knees, being betrayed by Sidious and murdered in cold-blood by Anakin. It's like George Lucas said: It's like poetry, it rhymed.
If we look at the movies only it isnt the case that he's evil. He's first and foremost a pragmatist. He disagrees with the Jedi. He disagrees with Sidious. Like Vader after him he's really a maverick who just uses the Sith partnership as a means to his ends. Although Dooku does plenty bad through his leadership of the seperatists, he also takes no pleasure in killing and senseless violence. He even actively avoids killing, offering the Jedi's surrender on Geonosis, Obi-Wan's recruitment, and takes great displeasure in defeating Anakin & Obi-Wan. He WILL kill virtually anyone, but only if it is neccessary to forward his goals, goals he truly believes in....This is exactly like Anakin (and plenty Jedi), whom we do not consider evil. The novelizations and especially Clone Wars show made him far more sinsiter, selfish, sadistic and cruel...The movies show the opposite. "He's a political idealist, not a murderer" Ki-Adi-Mundi clearly sees him, a former Jedi, as a misguided man who doesn’t isn't quite evil. Whilst Dooku is indeed a murderer, it just shows that those who knew him as having a moral compass. This obviously looks very stupid and stinks of retcon when they showerd him in the Clone Wars basically being a psychopath. Without this he's quite a complex villain, maybe even an anti-villain.
FiNALLY SOMEONE !! i WAZ ABOUT TO COMMENT SOMETHiNG CLOZE TO THiZ MYSELF ! THEY COULD OF DONE A LiTTLE BiT BETTER iN THE MOViEZ TOO BY SHOWiNG HiM HAViNG MORE RESTRAiNT & ACTUALLY HELPiNG OUT THE C.i.S. PLANETZ BY ACTUALLY BEiNG A PROTECTOR & PROViDER 4 THEM SiNCE THE JEDi ORDER HAD FAiLED THEM ! [NOT YELLiNG, JUZT LiKE TYPiNG iN CAPZ]
THE C.i.S. REALLY WAZN'T DONE JUSTiCE iN ABOUT ANY OF THEiR PORTRAYALZ SO FAR iN WHAT THEY WERE ACTUALLY SUPPOSED TO WANT TO DO ! & THEY SHOULD'VE MADE DOOKU'Z iNTENT TO BACKSTAB SiDiOUZ ONCE THEY WON MORE CLEAR iN HiZ SCREENTiME TOO [NOT YELLiNG, JUZT LiKE TYPiNG iN CAPZ]
ALL TO GRAHAMHiLL676, THEY COULD OF DONE A LiTTLE BiT BETTER iN THE MOViEZ TOO BY SHOWiNG HiM HAViNG MORE RESTRAiNT & ACTUALLY HELPiNG OUT THE C.i.S. PLANETZ BY ACTUALLY BEiNG A PROTECTOR & PROViDER 4 THEM SiNCE THE JEDi ORDER HAD FAiLED THEM ! [NOT YELLiNG, JUZT LiKE TYPiNG iN CAPZ]
Now I understand why Palpatine had him killed by Anakin in the first place. He's right that Dooku is dangerous to he kept alive since he is also plotting to betray Sidious anyways. And his vision of the Empire is much worse than Palpatine's.
@@Count-Dooku. human supremacy and also immense racism and disgust of aliens and cyborgs doesn't really define "better". Thrawn would have been a better ruler of the Empire, and he kinda was in his works.
@The-GrandAdmiralThrawn np. Honestly, though, Thrawn and Vader together could make a better Empire than Palpatine, but of cause, they need a figurehead to stem the political side, too. But whom?
@@Count-Dooku. It's not really better when Dooku's plans for the Empire would've inspired open rebellion much faster than Palpatine's. Palpatine wanted to enforce a kind of tyranny that humans and other species would be less inclined to openly oppose. It certainly didn't help that Dooku wanted to literally enslave anybody he deemed to be inferior.
I think there's room for both. A sympathetic villain is still a villain. Dooku saw through the corruption and wanted to fix it. He himself was a flawed man, and corrupt- yes. That's what made his principles fail and led him to the Dark Side. It's the difference between Dooku and Qui-Gon. They both saw the filth, and reacted to it differently- one heroically, one villainous.
I think he's someone sympathetic. Sympathy can't, however, be stretched so easily. For example: just because a person had a shitty life doesnt mean they can ruin the lives of others, especially those completely disconnected. Sympathy only covers so much and only goes so far, until you've gone beyond forgiveness
When you help kill hundreds of you former comrades in Attack Of The Clones and not bat an eye - then you're evil personified and deserve no pity & understanding.
You guys are by far the best lore channel on RUclips in my opinion. I absolutely love how you use legends in any of your videos. Amazing content! Thank you for years of awesomeness!
I do have to say Star Wars, the clone wars, followed the trend of just making him a villain. They never showed anything of his Conflictions or the reasons why he joined sidious And with tales of a jedi They may have touched on it A little bit, but It actually makes it worse because there's a contradiction between his character and how he's betrayed. Between both shows It's one of the problems I have with the clone wars
I was under the impression TCW portrayed Dooku's slow decay under the dark side. Dooku used the DS but did his best to not succumb to it. But overtime it did effect him.
Dooku is almost as tragic as Anakin. They both got disillusioned by the galactic status quo (especially the Jedi) and ended up being manipulated by the Sith. People just can accept the tragedy of Anakin more easy since his tragedy is more "classic" and easier to grasp. His loss of his mother and hidden love for Padme are things many people can understand unlike the more abstract, often political losses of Dooku. Also while most of Dookus tragedy is "hidden" within the EU, Anakins tragedy basically is the core theme of the OG Star Wars movies. I don't think Dooku fans actually wanna sell this idea of a misunderstood Anti-Hero. They just internalised the double standard he faced compared to Anakin. Dooku had no classic tragic love story and no tearbending origin as a sl*ve boy - and i think many people who have comfortable lives within 1st world countries but still are depressed and feeling betrayed just can sympathise with that. Just because other people have it worse, your own disillusion and disappointment in life are not invalid. This is what Dooku stands for: That you can still end up broken and desperate and being manipulated even while having a privileged role in society.
Anakin didn't fall because he was dissatisfied with the status quo. He was nowhere near knowledgeable enough about Republic politics to have reached that state. He fell because he coveted power and glory immediately, and he believed that the Jedi had some sinister agenda in preventing him from acquiring both. Yoda touched on this with Luke in EST where he tells Luke that Anakin chose the quick and easy path in a pursuit of power.
I actually love in Attack of the Clones the part with Dooku talking to Obi-Wan the part where he wishes Qui-Gon was still alive, I remember in 2997 when Star Wars website was in its infancy the bio written up by Lucas said Obi-Wans mentor was going to be a chaotic Jedi. From my D&D days the term we used for Chaotic. Somebody neither good nor bad. Somebody who reacted more aligned to what was good for their current desires or needs. Seeing a picture of Liam Neeson being cast as Obi-Wans teacher made me very excited. While Obi-Wan was hanging in those laser cuffs hearing him conversing with Obi-Wan the sad look on his face was perfect. Had I been Obi-Wan I would have accepted his offer. It's a good thing I'm not a Jedi. But I still love Dooku. I guess I'm more a fanboy than The Maker. I was thinking of the line "The circle is now complete" Peter Cushing and now Christopher Lee.
Why didn't he try to speak over Palps in the end? So taken back when he figured it out Palps plan that he couldn't bring words to say or is the passage of time (the look he gave Palps) quicker than it appeared on-screen?
Politics too. He really disliked and had no interest in them, nor was he like Dooku, in terms of racism and supremacy, also given how Anakin grew up in poverty beforehand. Vader always looked at folks for their character and competence, regardless of race, gender, or species, and was genuinely more equal and unbiased. Dooku was not, as this video and the ROTS novel shows us.
Finally, someone called him out. He's not sympathetic. Dooku was a racist mass-murdering hypocrite who enslaved planets. Those same planets like Ryloth where he ordered that they use the Twi'leks as human shields when Mace Windu (actual hero) and Obi-Wan came to liberate them.
I have my issues with windu and obi wan but least they wanted to save people besides dooku who didnt care what happened to the people as long as sidious and dooku got their way
@@lightningboltt5437 worse than Vader. Vader didn't enjoy his evil. He was a broken man who tried to save people he cared about. Obi-Wan said Anakins principles are based on his loyalty to his friends and nothing else. By the time of ep3, Palpatine made Anakin think he was the only friend he could trust. By the time of the suit, vader realized the trap of the dark side... Sidious was all he had left. The REAL reason Vader never took over. In terms of power, by Return of the Jedi, Vader already got much of his power back, about knightfall anakin level. Another decade and he could have taken over if he wanted. But until his son, he really didn't want to. He hated himself. Dooku is just a rich ass hole
35:19 Am I the only one who thought he was going to say "Of course we cant talk about Dooku's vision for the empire without talking about todays video sponsor"
Wow that Nod dude is a POS. Telling Dooku that Dooku didn't know what friendship is when stealing something and blaming it on your "friend" is the most scumfrell stuff possible? Dooku knew better than Nod, that's for sure.
He was well versed in the Dark Side by the first year of the Clone Wars. He knew damn well that the CIS was to be nothing but a scapegoat when he eventually would become the right hand man to the Emperor. If things had gone as planned, he probably would've slaughtered the CIS leadership the same way Anakin does in the actual timeline. Or maybe he'd just order everyone to a single room and have the Battle Droid guard summarily execute them.
Lorian Node became one of the important starting points for Dooku. Because when you talk about the future, it's like you're programming someone you're telling to do what you're saying. And no matter how hard he resists, no matter how hard he tries, he will not be able to overcome the wall that was deliberately built for him. If you compare, it's like blocking the road to something that still had to be learned. Perhaps if it hadn't been for that incident, the count would have discovered compassion, friendship, and so on. And the Node just took and did as he saw in that holocron, so what happened happened. But Dooku also had to deal with that incident and understand and accept some truths for himself, and the masters should not turn a blind eye to it. So we did our best here. (Лориан Нод стал одной из важных отправных точек для Дуку. Потому что когда говоришь о будущем, ты как бы программируешь того кому говоришь на совершения того что говоришь. И как бы сильно он не сопротивлялся, как бы сильно не старался, он не сможет преодалеть ту стену что ему намеренно возвели. Если сравнивать, то это как перекрыть дорогу к чему-то тому что пердстояло еще научиться. Возможно не будь того инцендента, граф бы открыл для себя сострадание, дружбу и тд. А Нод просто взял и сделал как он увидел в том голокроне, поэтому случилось то что случилось. Но Дуку тоже следовало разобраться с тем инцендентом и понять и чесно для себя принять какие-то истины, а мастерам не закрывать на это глаза. Так что тут ве постарались. )
Claims he isn't a Sympathetic antagonist then explains why he is a Sympothetic Antagonist :/ Just because he is wrong doesn't mean he isn't sympathetic.
Dukuo is the Star Wars equivalent of CICERO… elder statesman, who points out obvious flaws in the republic (a bit uncanny), is an APPOINTED dictator, joins the arguably morally justified side of a civil war, loses, and is put to death by a man who once called him “father”, literally by beheading… his hands were then cut off. That's incredible.
@@zakai-kaz he had them kill each other or something, tbh. I can't fully remember, but given how Dooku was the first to cause Anakin's loss of humanity physically to begin with, I feel that was good karma that Dooku deserved.
Not that I agree with his statement either. However, sociopaths are capable of caring about others. It is just their capacity to do so is extremely limited and are not really handled the best.
Sociopaths can still establish relationships and care for others on a personal level. It’s just far more difficult for them. If they are really close to someone specific, they can genuinely show concern for them while simultaneously not caring about someone else or people as a whole.
Dooku having a soft spot for Qui-Gon doesn't mean he wasn't a sociopath. Had Qui-Gon lived past TPM, who is to say that he wouldn't use their relationship to recruit Qui-Gon, and possibly Obi-Wan? Who is to say that he wouldn't just as easily murder Qui-Gon if he refused to turn to the Dark Side? After all, he murdered Yaddle for trying to talk sense into him. Like the presentation said, Dooku only saw ppl as belonging to one of 2 lists: asset or danger.
To a degree. However, I think a lot of the issue comes down to that Dooku has not maintained as much of a solid characterization foundation as others. Like at times it feels like the writers can't make up their minds on if they want to write Dooku as a well meaning extremist who simply took things too far or a mustache twirling villain rooted in purely selfish motive.
One of my favorite quotes to/about Tyranus is from a piece of fanfic funnily enough. “Yes, it could well be that we are living in the final last days of the Jedi Order. So, tell me coward. Did you abandon the Jedi the instant you learned of your former apprentice’s fate? Or did it take a week out of respect for what he died to protect?”
I recall a passage from the ROTS novelisation that talks about how Dooku divides everyone into one of two categories: Assets and Threats. Assets are people he can make use of in some way, or which can do things for him. Threats are anyone who isn't an Asset. Dooku may not be a sympathetic villain... But with those views, I personally find him an extremely relatable one.
I feel that Canon Dooku has been characterized as “an idealist” at least in the beginning but he definitely was a true Sith Lord after his transformation. No one can nobly wield the dark side freely.
I've always saw Dooku as an annoying locust that was finally crunched by Anakin Skywalker. His death was epic, he died on his knees, handless, & headless. Blind, Vulnerable & Foolish! The beautiful irony of Dooku's death is one of my favorite parts of Revenge of the Sith!
Revenge of the Sith's novelization set it right in stone. Dooku never truly knew what "friendship" was. He saw people as "useful" or "admirable", but the concept of friendship is almost alien to him. Not to mention that his big plan in the war was to retire peacefully and coax the Republic into becoming human (i.e. "resorting to xenophobia and genocide"). I never believed Dooku to be a sympathetic villain.
Honestly never understood why some, even still to this day believe Dooku was a 'good' sith or not a bad guy in general. He had his own agenda and maybe quit the jedi for honorable reasons but like all sith he became corrupted and was just as twisted as any other sith before him.
While I'm not the biggest Star Wars fan, haven't read alot of the other lore, Dooku and Yoda both always felt like they didn't deserve the praise they got
It would be more accurate for it to be the other way around. Palpatine fits the Hitler figure far more. Dooku would be comparable to someone like Lenin.
He became evil, surely, but he wasn't always that way. Dooku was a good man before he fell to the Dark Side. He was a very flawed Jedi, but at least he remained in the Light because of Qui-Gon Jinn.
You're one of the only channels that actually understands SW 🥺 thank you this was so relaxing and interesting. Love how you describe him, for some reason it's surprising to a lot of people but, he was a bad guy.
I like how the expanded universe fills in information about characters that suck in the movies. The movies teach us literally nothing about dookus character. He is probably the worst Star Wars movie character ever
Sympathetic or not, Dooku was 💯 correct about the Jedi. Your personal feelings on his character or the Jedi are of no consequence to that fact. The Jedi had become complacent in their positions of power and allowed the Sith to grow right under their noses.
Dooku was not 100% right, and such an ignorant view of the Jedi comes from a place of bias. Yes, they were complacent. Yes, they were fallible. Yes, there were times where they objectively dropped the ball. However, it is foolish to argue that they "allowed" the Sith to grow under their noses because it's not true. The prequels revealed that the Sith hid their presence from the Jedi using the Dark Side. It's not as simple as propagandists think it is.
Yes. In the ROTS novel, Grievous caught strays from Dooku when he tells Sidious that they shouldn't recruit Anakin because he was a cyborg, terribly undisciplined, and too unpredictable. Like Geetsly said, Dooku ironically kept the beings he hated the most closest to him. It was no different with Grievous. He viewed Grievous as an abomination because he was mostly machine, though he never told Grievous this to his face.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
Thinks the Jedi are becoming corrupt politicians
*leaves to become a corrupt politician*
" Congratulations, you played yourself"
- palpatine, or someone probably
A lot of people forget Dooku was in fact a pretty bad person. Like just because he accurately criticized the Jedi doesn't mean he was any better himself.
That's actually the usual fate of idealists. They get so blinded by righteous fervor, they become even worse than what they hated.
@@pancakes8670 Didn't the Tales of the Jedi episode actually kind of shows his hypocrisy. That the Republic is corrupt, that is not a lie. But the fact that Dooku ends up becomes worst than those politicians ends up making him look like a hypocrite
Serenno. I was struck by his exploitation of his home world in the Bad Batch. I thought he was better than that. I admired him. Until the fact was revealed to me, in the bad batch.
The worst part was that Yoda didnt Care when he found out that Anakin killed him as he believed that Dooku died a long time ago.
What honestly amazes me is that they were so ready for the war to end and certain it would with Dooku’s death, nobody on the council thought to have Anakin personally debrief them the details. There’s a big difference between slaying an enemy in battle and having him at your mercy to stand trial, only to decapitate him because the Chancellor tells you to.
@Lawrence_Talbot i see your point Anakin was reluctant to kill Dooku and Palpatine forced his hands, while Dooku just glared at Palpatine in disbelief before pleading Anakin for mercy, even after, Anakin couldn't live down the fact that he killed Dooku not just because it was against the Jedi code but also because it lead him to question his life as a hero.
@@Lawrence_Talbot one can argue that if anakin didn't listen to palpatine then palpatine could manipulate events to make it look like the jedi are acting outside the interest of the republic, the same way palpatine would of manipulated events in that way had the jedi not expelled ahsoka to hand over to the republic
@@Omnipulsar my point is on the Jedi’s lack of debrief not on Anakin’s lack of refusing Palps. Had they actually asked Anakin to detail what happened instead of Obi Wan simply telling them what happened (despite being unconscious when it happened), they could’ve A) been more alerted to Anakin’s tipping into the Dark Side and B) been more alerted to Palpatine being the Sith. Instead they simply shrugged off a very big hint because they were just glad the war would end soon
@@overlordelektro7940 You make good points about Anakin. As the passage Geetsly read pointed out, even with how much anger he had for Dooku for all the war he started had caused to his friends and the Galaxy as a whole he still was holding back somewhat, even after seeing Obi-Wan go down, despite many of the Dark Side tendency he had he always tried his best to keep those things in check even when Obi-Wan, Padme, Ahsoka, or someone else wasn't around to keep him in check, because he did want to be a good Jedi like Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, but of course, Palaptine had to get involved at this moment, and like all things Palpatine gets involved in he ensure the worst outcome can happen, he did it with the war, he did it with the Republic, and he did it with his apprentices.
Shows how much of an great politician Dooku is. He even fooled the entire fan base even as an fictional character
11/10 politician
That's what happens when you are a Brit Knight and Saruman as well
@@mrzirak792The voice
Bruh I've been against this whole bs about him being a sympathetic villain from the start. It's been crazy.
to be fair, if you have only seen the star wars movies, they dont go that in depth into his character, and the majority of star wars fans never got that deep into legends.
Anyone think qui-gon kept obi-wan away from dooku when he was young because he saw through his masters mask, but still held out hope.....it's like a man blocking his dad from meeting his son to protect them both......
Yes in Jedi Tales we see Qui Gon seeing him clearly
Qui-Gon and Rael were both concerned about Dooku's occasional brushes with the dark side, as was Sifo and Sifo's master (Can't recall her name). All four of them knew Dooku could use Sith Lightning when he got angry or desperate enough, heck he used lightning so save Qui-Gon once, and also to save himself and Sifo from a dark side cult, but all of them decided that it was okay because he was so self-disciplined that he could keep that darkness in check, which was sort of true until Palpatine came into the picture and started messing with his head. But really, in hindsight they might have been better served by tattling on Dooku to Yoda. But yeah, Qui-Gon might have been a little wary of Dooku. Still its Qui-Gon's death that really broke Dooku.
@@Andrea-nom Yeah, and something tells me that is wasn't the first time something like that happened.
I think calling him space Hitler is a term of endearment and makes him not sympathetic. Just like Trump
@@dreadrathis this from legends or Disney canon? Cuz I don’t count Disney Canon
"Suffer not the Xeno to live."
-High Marshall Dooku of the Black templars
lol, so he's hellbreach
@jiyuhong5853 (Helbrecht)
He goes on a rant about the corruption of imperium society whenever he learns about an inquisitor making a deal with a xeno to save an entire segmentum rather than sacrificing the segmentum to kill the xeno
@@capadociaash8003 I love the Black Templars but man, they sometimes will shaft themselves on virtue
Hellbrecht even argued with Guilleman when he came to deliver crucial reinforcements. Black templars are so zealous i almost can't take them seriously @@bw5020
So, Dooku's ideal galaxy would basically be 40K's Imperium of Man.
High Marshal Dooku: PURGE THE XENOS!
Dooku would at least fight for the emporor
@@CoolLink-Zelda hed fall to chaos in all likelihood
No. The Imperium is too liberal in how it rules for Dooku’s tastes. As long as you pay your tithes and follow the broad strokes of the Imperial Truth, the Imperium doesn’t care how you run things.
@@BlackIce3190jeez imagine Doku going to a high lord and saying “you know what the imperiums problem is? To much freedom”
Given that Lorian Nod threw Dooku under the bus for stealing a holocron… it almost parallels Barriss Offee throwing Ahsoka under the bus for bombing the Jedi Temple.
And yet Lorian got better while Dooku got worse
@@ryanmoore6259If he's so much better then why is he Dead?
@@Count-Dooku.Their strength isn't what was being compared.
@@ryanmoore6259 can you BLAME Dooku? He saw corruption in individual Jedi like Nod, the Council and in the Republic Senate that he became disillusioned with the people he was defending.
@@EricGraham94I can absolutely blame Dooku. The state of the republic did not warrant a manufactured galactic war that claimed billions of lives. I’m sorry but there’s a point where you got to say “your frustration was understandable, but your response is unforgivable”. And I mean, if this ain’t it, what is?
Considering Princess Leia was also an aristocrat, I like to imagine that Darth Tyrannus once called someone a "foul-mouthed, scruffy-looking nerf herder." Only he would have said it with calm contempt and killed that "person" (air quotes from his perspective) immediately afterwards.
He would a used whatever the proper, Elitist Aristocratic way to say that was... Maybe even complete with the bad smug faintly Euro Accent too
@@seantaylor424 naw I just called people Bantha Poodoo.
@Count-Dooku. Of course! Much swifter and more precise, just like Form 2!
Its “stuck-up, half-witted, scruffy-looking nerf-herder”
I think there’s a difference between canon Dooku and Legends Dooku after Tales of the Jedi 😂😂
Yeah I’ve read the Revenge of the Sith novelization, Dooku is a MONSTER
Dooku was more of an idealist in canon who got manipulated whereas in legends he was more of a person seeking power while disguising it under fighting against the corruption of the republic.
Everyone in the ROTS novelization is a fucking psycho.
There is also a diffrence between canon dooku and tales of the Jedi dooku
Dooku is a monster in TCW too, which may I remind you is canon. So much so that people dislike his TCW interpretation because they believe him to be an idealist
@@UnitedWars Dooku in TCW just feels like a generic villain who is not even as entertaining as Palpatine to make up for it. Maul was way more exciting and fun in TCW.
He became a Sith Lord. Enough said. But like Anakin, we see the influence of a flawed character, the influence of The Dark Side, AND the machinations of one of the most purely evil characters in fiction (Lucas said his inspiration for Palpatine was The Devil)….
…and the result is we see a basically good man with good intentions get corrupted to the point he becomes the corruption he intended to destroy.
The Abyss stated into him and found him wanting. I think it is human nature to feel some compassion for someone who set out to do good but got lost, as opposed to a monster like Palpatine who is drive by pure malice and selfishness.
Geetsly, could you do a video contrasting Alpha-17 and Rex? Essentially they were supposed to be the same character with the name changed just because there would have been too many main characters whose names started with A. Both clones are among the best in the clone army and right-hand men to Anakin Skywalker, yet they become different men. They’re basically representative of the differences between Legends and Canon Clones.
Nah cause then it’s leads to meat riders like you making excuses for all his atrocities and cheering him on while he becomes the exact villain that you seem to hate in palpatine so much. Dooku was never a good man, all he ever was, was a fascist, racist self important prick who thought himself and his ideas were perfect and no one else was worth listening too and only he could be the savior that everyone would worship. And look what happened his actions caused the death and torture of millions of not billions of people and caused generations of family’s to suffer through war and destruction, and for all that he dies on the ground like an idiot because like always happens with these people he was manipulated by someone who was actually smart unlike dooku who is an jerk who thinks he’s an angel, go away, plus it’s just way more entertaining to watch a villain who knows he’s evil and is having fun with it, then a sniveling coward who’s always talking about some “oh but your side is worse” head ahhh
He was never truly a sith, ideologically speaking. But I agree with the rest
@ He was a Sith. Darth Tyrannus. He was simply never Sidious’ first choice as an apprentice. Like so many others, Palpatine used him, then eliminated him when he was no longer useful.
@@kellygreeniiMuch like how he was about to with Vader in Return of the Jedi.
I always liked how Dooku believed himself immune to Corruption and the failings of emotion, but *the* event that led him to abandon the order and start down the dark path was the death of his former, and finest student.
I also think that the nature of dark side allows one to justify one's own character flaws: "I am not truly responsible for my degradation, I have not lost anything, i have always been like this, the Dark Side merely showed me who I truly am."
This is a lie. The dark side strips us of our positive traits and convinces us that that is strength,
I believe that Dooku truly did have noble qualities once. That he may have had reduced emotional affect to start, but he truly did have affection for Yoda, Qui-Gon, and others, in his own way (See Dark Rendezvous).
Palpatine would be the exception to the dark side stripping you of positive traits considering when his father cradled him when he was just born Palpatine fought him off, I wouldn't be surprised if he was just born evil
Dooku was a great man. The dark side literally turns people into demons imo
@@WarLord645 Not always. Contrary to many Sith who succumbed to the dark side's emotional desolation, Darth Marr's commitment to the Empire's survival became his primary motivation. By prioritizing the Empire's interests over his own, Marr demonstrated a utilitarian philosophy that stands in stark contrast to the self-centered pursuits that typify Sith behavior. Further challenging traditional Sith views, Marr's respect for his enemies, particularly the Jedi, marked another significant divergence. His respect for Jedi Grand Master Satele Shan-not merely as an adversary but as an equal-underscores a level of acknowledgment for the Jedi that is rare among Sith, who typically view the Jedi with contempt or as inferior. Over the decades, his power in the dark side eroded much of his emotion, rendering him more a vessel of will than a man driven by personal desires or fears. This transformation, while enhancing his effectiveness as a leader, also stripped him of what many would consider essential humanity-a point that could be seen as aligning with Sith ideals or, alternatively, as a deviation towards a form of self-sacrifice uncommon among Sith. Following his death, Darth Marr achieved something extraordinarily rare for a Sith: he manifested as a Force ghost. This ability, typically reserved for Jedi who are deeply attuned to the light side of the Force, suggests that Marr's understanding and use of the Force transcended traditional Sith teachings. Qui Gon Jinn told Yoda that the Sith can never achieve it; it comes only through the release of self, not the exaltation of self. It comes through compassion, not greed. However Marr's creed is “Life is the enemy. Death is our solace.” He wasn't greedy or afraid of death. He never involved himself in the Sith power struggle and even opposed the Emperor himself. He didn't exalt himself. He inflicted pain not out of greed but out of the genuine belief that conflict benefits the individual and is essential for the growth of society. A form of darwinistic altruism. His devotion to the empire caused him to be stripped of emotions and most of his humanity. In other words he has hollowed himself as the ultimate sacrifice.
Upon his own ascension to Dark Lord of the Sith, Darth Vectivus retained the principles and ethical standing of his previous existence. With that foundation he avoided the trappings of the Sith who preceded him; he was never motivated by galactic domination or an all-consuming hatred of the Jedi, and he instead chose to live the remainder of his days luxuriously in the company of his loved ones. However, Vectivus was still a ruthless individual, partly connected to his background as a businessman, and was willing to do whatever it took to succeed, a trait he promoted in others as well. Despite his ruthlessness, Darth Vectivus possessed a softer side, with regard to the young of animals. He opined that nearly every creature was visually appealing in their youth. Darth Vectivus' self-discipline and preexisting code of ethics allowed him to remain fair and balanced without succumbing to the lure of power which plagued many of the Sith Lords who preceded him. He eventually returned to the mine and maintained a plentiful existence in the company of friends and loved ones alike. Violence, galactic ambition, and the eradication of the Sith's philosophical Jedi rivals were of no consequence to him; his contention was to simply immerse himself in Sith lore and study the galaxy. Upon his return to the mine years later as a fully fledged Sith Lord, Vectivus built a mansion in the heart of the asteroid's dark side potency. Darth Vectivus valued his skills in business and money management, and recorded his various principles in his own holocron. He eventually died at his Home, having lived out the remainder of his days surrounded by friends and family.
@@sammit8962 Man, Vectivus is so cool to think about. He won’t kill your family or loved ones, he’ll just bleed you dry in court if you wrong him lmao.
@@WarLord645 As the presentation showed, the definition of "great man" is entirely subjective. While Dooku had some positive traits, his reasons for being a Jedi were entirely wrong. It was completely based on enforcing his will on to other life forms, which is completely antithetical to the Jedi way. The Dark Side didn't necessarily turn him into a fascist and a narcissist. He was those things even as a Jedi.
Even if he wasn’t particularly sympathetic he still has maybe my favorite lightsaber in Star Wars (tied with Roblio Darté) and mastered the best lightsaber form.
A fellow man of culture here
The way he fights makes me feel like he's dancing
He's the only character that could ever look cool fighting in his pajamas.
If your priority is dueling, yes, absolutely. Personally, I prefer Obi Wan and his complete mastery of Form 3, as it's the epitome of what a Jedi should be.
I like his Lightsaber too it reminds me of Kylo Renn's lightsaber but better
Tyrannus did not have a superiority complex, he simply was superior
I'm not sure superior people fail basic math. He simply couldn't understand that 1+1=3 wasn't a balanced equation.
He was superior, but he also had a superiority complex that led him to falsely believe he was more superior than he really was. That's why he died the way he did.
The fact Sidious himself didn't bother to ever train Dooku itself is some evidence supporting that
Until he realized Anakin was superior in power and Sideous superior in treachery
@@LokiTheCleverDuku was a pawn, that’s why he chose not to train him.
If you asked dooku for sympathy, he will toss the galactic dictionary at you, telling you where it is: between (quack) and (quack)
Hilariously that should also be roughly where “sith” is assuming I know which words you quacked.
@firstnamelastname9237 glad you noticed the duck in the censorship department of the empire
@@yokai333 Well we all know ducks only have three occupations, the navy, businessmen, and harassing lemonade stands.
Me: *Opens yt for the first after work, first thing I see* "Space Hitler"
Also me: Where the hell am I?!
Great video about Signature Look of Superiority. Probably one of your best, Geetsly.
I agree mate, it was a truly marvellous video.
Well endowed chat ' well met.
Him calling Anakin and obi wan clowns and then later getting beaten by them in the ROTS Novelization was so funny.
I seem to remember I quite cleanly took care of Kenobi. Skywalker on the other hand....
@@Count-Dooku. yes, he did get you back for his hand.
He may have started out sympathetic but he lost all sympathy after TPM.
I still see him as sympathetic but because he is a great example of good men walking into hell thinking they are doing good. One day you look into the mirror to see a monster only to reject the truth staring back at you. That is why his story is sad.
No by all means, his actions are not forgivable. Sympathetic does not mean good guy
@@gdragonlord749the point he was never a good man, he never possessed compassion he only cared for his image. Any good he did was to feed his own ego and make himself look better. He was a literal facist
He's proof that a lot of roads to hell are paved with good intentions. He sincerely felt the common people of the galaxy were being more and more forgotten in favor of those with power and money (credits), wanted to change that and the Order and ended up falling to the Dark Side once Palpatine wormed his way into his brain.
@gdragonlord749 except he wasn't a good man. Unlike Anakin who turned because he wanted to save everyone he cared for, so does fit your description, Dooku was a human supremacist .
Fully agree, his issues with the republic were well founded. If the council listened to him, i dont think anakin would have fallen.
"Um actually he was sympathetic and the Jedi were the bad guys, because anyone like that is ALWAYS EVIL and all villains are just downtrodden and-"
The worst people are always the ones who have never suffered. He wore the name "Tyrannus" with pride.
That alone should have been most of what you needed to know.
Amazing vid.
_"He wore the name "Tyrannus" with pride."_
Did he? I thought that name got used maybe once.
I mean, yeah, they told a little boy that he isn't good enough because he loves his mom and refused to free slaves, of course they are evil
@@ElliotKeaton One of the defining characteristics of the Sith is supposed to be the wearing of your new name. "Darth" is the title of lordship, and your name to associate with it embodies your rebirth within the Dark Side. He is not _Count Dooku_ as the galaxy believes, just as his master is not Sheev Palpatine. His name *_was_* Darth Tyrannus, and Dooku was a façade he wore for the sake of claiming his ancestor's power and wealth, and the aristocracy he had always earned.
Much is to be said of Darth Vader: Anakin Slywalker had ceased to be the man behind the robe the moment he pridefully drove his blade into a group of children, as he believed was for the sake of saving them from their future as slaves to the Empire. It had already been Darth Vader who fought Obi-Wan on Mustafar, long before he was forced to don his mask.
That the movies largely ignore Tyrannus' Sith name and all but never addressed it, is a distinct _failure_ in the storytelling; one which never ceased to upset me.
It also doesn't help that Clone Wars has often used humans to represent the more rational, moderate, and sympathetic Separatists while the comically evil ones tend to be aliens. Which is understandable from a narrative standpoint.
not all but yeah. trench isn't. he is just shown to be scary to fight because of how good he was at winning now because he was evil or something. but he's the only one that comes to mind.
This is just that "Tragic: Worst person you know makes a good point" meme
He was essentially a block of ice. A sociopath.
I always saw dooku a clinical Psychopath not a sociopath because sociopaths can feel all forms of emotions especially love and compassion but psychopaths can’t and they pretend to feel those emotions Palpatine is a clear sociopath but Dooku is definitely a Psychopath
@@Yang_1230Have to disagree, it's the opposite, Palpatine couldn't feel Vader's turn to the light side because he doesn't understand love, he only understands power, he's all about power. Dooku is quite different, he understands the principle of power and knows full well in his interior that he's doing it for what he believes, even if it means betraying everything and everyone. Vader's different, he's all about loyalty to the ones he love.
@@maxisdead2153 Dooku literally can’t feel or understand emotional connections the fact he had to pretend to feel emotions he can’t feel he gives more evidence Dooku was born with biochemistry inability to feel empathy for others that’s literally a clinical psychopath While Palpatine Shows traits of both Psychopathy and Sociopathy he’s definitely both but Dooku is Truly a Psychopath
@@muhamedquraishi No. Sociopaths lack
a conscience. What drove Dooku was outrage over the corruption and injustices tolerated by The Republic, its corrupt government and a complacent Jedi Order. Sociopaths don’t care about such things.
What happened to Dooku is what happens when you fall down the slippery slope of radicalism: My Ends Justify My Means.
Palpatine was the Psychopath. He cared for nothing and no one but himself and his own desire for power. The only two people he remotely cared for (albeit in a very twisted way) were his master ed Darth Plagueis, and his apprentice Darth Vader. He ended the former and was quite cruel to the latter.
48 minutes of my favorite character ?!?
Time to busy out the popcorn 🍿!
Imagine how different things would've been if Obi-Wan woke back up after Dooku knocked him out. Obi-Wan probably would've saved Dooku, and maybe (big emphasis on maybe) gotten Dooku to confess something about Palpatine
I would say in the beginning he had good intentions, I understand his frustration with the Jedi order and the problems with the Republic. Sometimes I wonder what if Dooku stayed in the Jedi Order and tried to do everything he could to help? Or what if he tried to become chancellor instead and introduce reforms to help people and deal with corruption in the Republic? There are so many things that he could have done differently but instead he is manipulated by Palpatine and becomes another pawn for his plan.
I also want to mention I guess another reason why I find Dooku fascinating is because Sir Christopher Lee is one of my favourite actors and I love his portrayal of Count Dooku, Count Dracula and Saruman. Plus it's always a joy watching him speak about Swords and other stuff, he was a legend and may he rest in peace.
I thought Palps was space Hitler. Dooku was more of a space Himmler
Then who is space Trump?
@@jamiewalsh3349Vader
Nute Gunray
@@jamiewalsh3349 That one guy who used to date Padme.
Palpatine is space Satan.
There's something I find extremely poetic about Dooku's death. In Tales of the Jedi, we saw that he betrayed his friend, Master Yaddle, and murdered her in cold-blood, even though she was only trying to help him. So, in episode 3, there he is, on his knees, being betrayed by Sidious and murdered in cold-blood by Anakin.
It's like George Lucas said: It's like poetry, it rhymed.
Kreia was right. The force just repeats tragedy.
If we look at the movies only it isnt the case that he's evil. He's first and foremost a pragmatist. He disagrees with the Jedi. He disagrees with Sidious. Like Vader after him he's really a maverick who just uses the Sith partnership as a means to his ends. Although Dooku does plenty bad through his leadership of the seperatists, he also takes no pleasure in killing and senseless violence. He even actively avoids killing, offering the Jedi's surrender on Geonosis, Obi-Wan's recruitment, and takes great displeasure in defeating Anakin & Obi-Wan. He WILL kill virtually anyone, but only if it is neccessary to forward his goals, goals he truly believes in....This is exactly like Anakin (and plenty Jedi), whom we do not consider evil.
The novelizations and especially Clone Wars show made him far more sinsiter, selfish, sadistic and cruel...The movies show the opposite.
"He's a political idealist, not a murderer" Ki-Adi-Mundi clearly sees him, a former Jedi, as a misguided man who doesn’t isn't quite evil. Whilst Dooku is indeed a murderer, it just shows that those who knew him as having a moral compass.
This obviously looks very stupid and stinks of retcon when they showerd him in the Clone Wars basically being a psychopath.
Without this he's quite a complex villain, maybe even an anti-villain.
So this basically comes back to a point I make all the time.
Filoni Clone Wars is trash
FiNALLY SOMEONE !! i WAZ ABOUT TO COMMENT SOMETHiNG CLOZE TO THiZ MYSELF ! THEY COULD OF DONE A LiTTLE BiT BETTER iN THE MOViEZ TOO BY SHOWiNG HiM HAViNG MORE RESTRAiNT & ACTUALLY HELPiNG OUT THE C.i.S. PLANETZ BY ACTUALLY BEiNG A PROTECTOR & PROViDER 4 THEM SiNCE THE JEDi ORDER HAD FAiLED THEM ! [NOT YELLiNG, JUZT LiKE TYPiNG iN CAPZ]
THE C.i.S. REALLY WAZN'T DONE JUSTiCE iN ABOUT ANY OF THEiR PORTRAYALZ SO FAR iN WHAT THEY WERE ACTUALLY SUPPOSED TO WANT TO DO ! & THEY SHOULD'VE MADE DOOKU'Z iNTENT TO BACKSTAB SiDiOUZ ONCE THEY WON MORE CLEAR iN HiZ SCREENTiME TOO [NOT YELLiNG, JUZT LiKE TYPiNG iN CAPZ]
FiNALLY SOMEONE !! i WAZ ABOUT TO COMMENT SOMETHiNG CLOZE TO THiZ MYSELF ! [NOT YELLiNG, JUZT LiKE TYPiNG iN CAPZ]
ALL TO GRAHAMHiLL676, THEY COULD OF DONE A LiTTLE BiT BETTER iN THE MOViEZ TOO BY SHOWiNG HiM HAViNG MORE RESTRAiNT & ACTUALLY HELPiNG OUT THE C.i.S. PLANETZ BY ACTUALLY BEiNG A PROTECTOR & PROViDER 4 THEM SiNCE THE JEDi ORDER HAD FAiLED THEM ! [NOT YELLiNG, JUZT LiKE TYPiNG iN CAPZ]
I’m always seeing Dooku as evil for kicking the bodies of Commander Thorn and a Shock trooper on Scipio
Same I will never forgive him for that.
He is always One step ahead of his opponents l love it
Except palpatine
@@inyourgranmaass3605Palps is always several Steps ahead of everyone.
Now I understand why Palpatine had him killed by Anakin in the first place. He's right that Dooku is dangerous to he kept alive since he is also plotting to betray Sidious anyways. And his vision of the Empire is much worse than Palpatine's.
You made a grammatical error. YOu spelt Better, W O R S E. It's actually spelt B E T T E R.
@@Count-Dooku. human supremacy and also immense racism and disgust of aliens and cyborgs doesn't really define "better".
Thrawn would have been a better ruler of the Empire, and he kinda was in his works.
@@SWDude2710Thank you for your kind words.
@The-GrandAdmiralThrawn np.
Honestly, though, Thrawn and Vader together could make a better Empire than Palpatine, but of cause, they need a figurehead to stem the political side, too.
But whom?
@@Count-Dooku. It's not really better when Dooku's plans for the Empire would've inspired open rebellion much faster than Palpatine's. Palpatine wanted to enforce a kind of tyranny that humans and other species would be less inclined to openly oppose. It certainly didn't help that Dooku wanted to literally enslave anybody he deemed to be inferior.
Dude I already support the guy, you don't have to sell him to me.
LOL
indeed
Same
Yup
Me also 😏
29:58
Bro at the back of the senate pod look more like Sidious than Palpatine does
this video needs to go viral it is an amazing analysis for one most interesting star wars charakters
I think there's room for both. A sympathetic villain is still a villain. Dooku saw through the corruption and wanted to fix it. He himself was a flawed man, and corrupt- yes. That's what made his principles fail and led him to the Dark Side. It's the difference between Dooku and Qui-Gon. They both saw the filth, and reacted to it differently- one heroically, one villainous.
A imperium of man? As a 40k fan I don't see a problem here
I think he's someone sympathetic. Sympathy can't, however, be stretched so easily. For example: just because a person had a shitty life doesnt mean they can ruin the lives of others, especially those completely disconnected. Sympathy only covers so much and only goes so far, until you've gone beyond forgiveness
Sympathy is not the same as condoning actions.
@kingorange7739 never said it was
@@nathanfish1998 I know
Yes ?
Tell us more
@@maximedaunis8292 no, I don't think I will
When you help kill hundreds of you former comrades in Attack Of The Clones and not bat an eye - then you're evil personified and deserve no pity & understanding.
I’m honestly surprised Dooku stayed with the Jedi for as long as he did.
It was a difficult decision to make. I should have left the order much sooner. But I had hoped things could change. A fool's hope it would seem.
You guys are by far the best lore channel on RUclips in my opinion. I absolutely love how you use legends in any of your videos. Amazing content! Thank you for years of awesomeness!
Why are you evil?
Dooku: *wall of text*
Palpatine: "yes"
I do have to say Star Wars, the clone wars, followed the trend of just making him a villain. They never showed anything of his Conflictions or the reasons why he joined sidious
And with tales of a jedi They may have touched on it A little bit, but It actually makes
it worse because there's a contradiction between his character and how he's betrayed. Between both shows
It's one of the problems I have with the clone wars
I can agree though wish they did show more of his motivations and emotions when he joined sidious
I was under the impression TCW portrayed Dooku's slow decay under the dark side. Dooku used the DS but did his best to not succumb to it. But overtime it did effect him.
@@westwardstar1686 that honestly makes sense as why he becomes slowly more depraved in TCW as the show went on.
He started off noble, if not a bit extreme. But this is what happens when you spend too much time in the Dark Side.
My favorite character of all Star Wars. Imagine if Obi Wan had joined him when he had a chance .
Dooku is almost as tragic as Anakin. They both got disillusioned by the galactic status quo (especially the Jedi) and ended up being manipulated by the Sith. People just can accept the tragedy of Anakin more easy since his tragedy is more "classic" and easier to grasp. His loss of his mother and hidden love for Padme are things many people can understand unlike the more abstract, often political losses of Dooku. Also while most of Dookus tragedy is "hidden" within the EU, Anakins tragedy basically is the core theme of the OG Star Wars movies.
I don't think Dooku fans actually wanna sell this idea of a misunderstood Anti-Hero. They just internalised the double standard he faced compared to Anakin. Dooku had no classic tragic love story and no tearbending origin as a sl*ve boy - and i think many people who have comfortable lives within 1st world countries but still are depressed and feeling betrayed just can sympathise with that.
Just because other people have it worse, your own disillusion and disappointment in life are not invalid. This is what Dooku stands for: That you can still end up broken and desperate and being manipulated even while having a privileged role in society.
wait, did you watch the video yet?
Anakin didn't fall because he was dissatisfied with the status quo. He was nowhere near knowledgeable enough about Republic politics to have reached that state. He fell because he coveted power and glory immediately, and he believed that the Jedi had some sinister agenda in preventing him from acquiring both. Yoda touched on this with Luke in EST where he tells Luke that Anakin chose the quick and easy path in a pursuit of power.
I actually love in Attack of the Clones the part with Dooku talking to Obi-Wan the part where he wishes Qui-Gon was still alive, I remember in 2997 when Star Wars website was in its infancy the bio written up by Lucas said Obi-Wans mentor was going to be a chaotic Jedi. From my D&D days the term we used for Chaotic. Somebody neither good nor bad. Somebody who reacted more aligned to what was good for their current desires or needs. Seeing a picture of Liam Neeson being cast as Obi-Wans teacher made me very excited. While Obi-Wan was hanging in those laser cuffs hearing him conversing with Obi-Wan the sad look on his face was perfect. Had I been Obi-Wan I would have accepted his offer. It's a good thing I'm not a Jedi. But I still love Dooku. I guess I'm more a fanboy than The Maker. I was thinking of the line "The circle is now complete" Peter Cushing and now Christopher Lee.
It really makes me curious on what would happen if Obi-Wan actually became Dooku’s apprentice?
Why didn't he try to speak over Palps in the end? So taken back when he figured it out Palps plan that he couldn't bring words to say or is the passage of time (the look he gave Palps) quicker than it appeared on-screen?
Guess there was more to the "signature look of superiority" meme then most people thought
My interest in Count Dooku has risen from Tails of the Jedi to this year.
I don't remember Dooku building swimming pools, movie theatres, or labor wards for his victims.
Vader also didn’t like democracy.
Politics too. He really disliked and had no interest in them, nor was he like Dooku, in terms of racism and supremacy, also given how Anakin grew up in poverty beforehand.
Vader always looked at folks for their character and competence, regardless of race, gender, or species, and was genuinely more equal and unbiased.
Dooku was not, as this video and the ROTS novel shows us.
Vader is stratocratic fascism, Dookoo is supremacist fascism, and Palpatine is esoteric/mythical fascism.
@@sillygoose9791 works well.
Finally, someone called him out. He's not sympathetic. Dooku was a racist mass-murdering hypocrite who enslaved planets. Those same planets like Ryloth where he ordered that they use the Twi'leks as human shields when Mace Windu (actual hero) and Obi-Wan came to liberate them.
I have my issues with windu and obi wan but least they wanted to save people besides dooku who didnt care what happened to the people as long as sidious and dooku got their way
Based Dooku, suffer not alien to live
Fr, he was a brutal sith lord as bad as vader and malgus
They're calld HUMAN rights for a reason. ~ Doku, problably
@@lightningboltt5437 worse than Vader. Vader didn't enjoy his evil. He was a broken man who tried to save people he cared about. Obi-Wan said Anakins principles are based on his loyalty to his friends and nothing else. By the time of ep3, Palpatine made Anakin think he was the only friend he could trust. By the time of the suit, vader realized the trap of the dark side... Sidious was all he had left. The REAL reason Vader never took over. In terms of power, by Return of the Jedi, Vader already got much of his power back, about knightfall anakin level. Another decade and he could have taken over if he wanted. But until his son, he really didn't want to. He hated himself.
Dooku is just a rich ass hole
35:19
Am I the only one who thought he was going to say
"Of course we cant talk about Dooku's vision for the empire without talking about todays video sponsor"
Wow that Nod dude is a POS. Telling Dooku that Dooku didn't know what friendship is when stealing something and blaming it on your "friend" is the most scumfrell stuff possible? Dooku knew better than Nod, that's for sure.
Playing a Star Wars TTRPG and we had a character that was a ex-CIS soldier we made jokes that he was in the Dooku Youth
Dookureich > dEmOcRaCy
By the time of revenge of the sith he lost all sympathy
I agree
In the eyes of the republic, due to propaganda, yes. In the eyes of the separatists, he was more of a hero than ever.
At least I didn't lose my head.....
He was well versed in the Dark Side by the first year of the Clone Wars. He knew damn well that the CIS was to be nothing but a scapegoat when he eventually would become the right hand man to the Emperor. If things had gone as planned, he probably would've slaughtered the CIS leadership the same way Anakin does in the actual timeline. Or maybe he'd just order everyone to a single room and have the Battle Droid guard summarily execute them.
I just like well-maintained old men. And Christopher Lee.
Lorian Node became one of the important starting points for Dooku. Because when you talk about the future, it's like you're programming someone you're telling to do what you're saying. And no matter how hard he resists, no matter how hard he tries, he will not be able to overcome the wall that was deliberately built for him. If you compare, it's like blocking the road to something that still had to be learned. Perhaps if it hadn't been for that incident, the count would have discovered compassion, friendship, and so on. And the Node just took and did as he saw in that holocron, so what happened happened. But Dooku also had to deal with that incident and understand and accept some truths for himself, and the masters should not turn a blind eye to it. So we did our best here.
(Лориан Нод стал одной из важных отправных точек для Дуку. Потому что когда говоришь о будущем, ты как бы программируешь того кому говоришь на совершения того что говоришь. И как бы сильно он не сопротивлялся, как бы сильно не старался, он не сможет преодалеть ту стену что ему намеренно возвели. Если сравнивать, то это как перекрыть дорогу к чему-то тому что пердстояло еще научиться. Возможно не будь того инцендента, граф бы открыл для себя сострадание, дружбу и тд. А Нод просто взял и сделал как он увидел в том голокроне, поэтому случилось то что случилось. Но Дуку тоже следовало разобраться с тем инцендентом и понять и чесно для себя принять какие-то истины, а мастерам не закрывать на это глаза. Так что тут ве постарались. )
Claims he isn't a Sympathetic antagonist then explains why he is a Sympothetic Antagonist :/
Just because he is wrong doesn't mean he isn't sympathetic.
The force literally called him a Tyrant. It’s literally in his name!
Dukuo is the Star Wars equivalent of CICERO… elder statesman, who points out obvious flaws in the republic (a bit uncanny), is an APPOINTED dictator, joins the arguably morally justified side of a civil war, loses, and is put to death by a man who once called him “father”, literally by beheading… his hands were then cut off. That's incredible.
This only makes what Vader does to Dooku's family in the comics seem like poetic justice
What did Vader do to dookus family
@@zakai-kaz he had them kill each other or something, tbh. I can't fully remember, but given how Dooku was the first to cause Anakin's loss of humanity physically to begin with, I feel that was good karma that Dooku deserved.
I'm not sure if sociopath describes Dooku if he genuinely cared for Qui-Gon
Not that I agree with his statement either. However, sociopaths are capable of caring about others. It is just their capacity to do so is extremely limited and are not really handled the best.
@kingorange7739 yea and Dooku to me seemed to love Qui-Gon in a brotherly or father like capacity.
@@layzboi2250 True
Sociopaths can still establish relationships and care for others on a personal level. It’s just far more difficult for them.
If they are really close to someone specific, they can genuinely show concern for them while simultaneously not caring about someone else or people as a whole.
Dooku having a soft spot for Qui-Gon doesn't mean he wasn't a sociopath. Had Qui-Gon lived past TPM, who is to say that he wouldn't use their relationship to recruit Qui-Gon, and possibly Obi-Wan? Who is to say that he wouldn't just as easily murder Qui-Gon if he refused to turn to the Dark Side? After all, he murdered Yaddle for trying to talk sense into him. Like the presentation said, Dooku only saw ppl as belonging to one of 2 lists: asset or danger.
A lot of people forget he openly worked with the very same sith he warned Obiwan about. Like, did they not watch Attack of the Clones in its entirety?
Dooku was such a skillful manipulator that he even managed to manipulate the real-world audience into thinking he wasn't as bad as he was.
To a degree. However, I think a lot of the issue comes down to that Dooku has not maintained as much of a solid characterization foundation as others. Like at times it feels like the writers can't make up their minds on if they want to write Dooku as a well meaning extremist who simply took things too far or a mustache twirling villain rooted in purely selfish motive.
One of my favorite quotes to/about Tyranus is from a piece of fanfic funnily enough.
“Yes, it could well be that we are living in the final last days of the Jedi Order. So, tell me coward. Did you abandon the Jedi the instant you learned of your former apprentice’s fate? Or did it take a week out of respect for what he died to protect?”
I recall a passage from the ROTS novelisation that talks about how Dooku divides everyone into one of two categories: Assets and Threats. Assets are people he can make use of in some way, or which can do things for him. Threats are anyone who isn't an Asset.
Dooku may not be a sympathetic villain... But with those views, I personally find him an extremely relatable one.
Dooku's the good guy in WH40K
I always just thought dooku was a weak failure and a pawn and never gave him a second thought beyond that.
You get a sub for talking Legends over Disney heresy.
Tbh some of Legends is just as bad as some Disney stuff, so it's like 50/50.
Dooku: Treachery is the way of the Sith.
Palpatine: *Does Treachery against Dooku*
Dooku: Surprised Pikachu face
I feel that Canon Dooku has been characterized as “an idealist” at least in the beginning but he definitely was a true Sith Lord after his transformation. No one can nobly wield the dark side freely.
This makes his sith name have so much more weight imo. I like this variant better.
"He was the best guy around"
"what about the people he murdered?"
"what murder???"
I've always saw Dooku as an annoying locust that was finally crunched by Anakin Skywalker.
His death was epic, he died on his knees, handless, & headless.
Blind, Vulnerable & Foolish!
The beautiful irony of Dooku's death is one of my favorite parts of Revenge of the Sith!
Stop, i can only appreciate him so much!
Revenge of the Sith's novelization set it right in stone.
Dooku never truly knew what "friendship" was. He saw people as "useful" or "admirable", but the concept of friendship is almost alien to him.
Not to mention that his big plan in the war was to retire peacefully and coax the Republic into becoming human (i.e. "resorting to xenophobia and genocide").
I never believed Dooku to be a sympathetic villain.
The ROTS novel is also a massive departure from his character and made him exibit traits he never had and even contradicted in other EU sources.
I think if there is phrase to describe him, it would be this: The way to hell is paved with good intentions.
Honestly never understood why some, even still to this day believe Dooku was a 'good' sith or not a bad guy in general. He had his own agenda and maybe quit the jedi for honorable reasons but like all sith he became corrupted and was just as twisted as any other sith before him.
While I'm not the biggest Star Wars fan, haven't read alot of the other lore, Dooku and Yoda both always felt like they didn't deserve the praise they got
The Jedi Order deserved the "Lost Twenty" and all ill wills that befell them for becoming corrupt.
I love how they worked in George’s original concept of having Anakin working against the order from within.
He founded the CIS is what he did. He was a brave anti Republican corruption politician. And in this house, Count Dooku is a hero. End of story
FACT!
Watch the whole video
So far:
Dooku - Hitler
Palpatine - Stalin
Which is complete bs. Palpatine is more akin to Hitler or the US President and Dooku is more of a Putin since he is a direct product of the US
Vader-?
@mriganabhkashyap1564 Vasily Stalin
It would be more accurate for it to be the other way around. Palpatine fits the Hitler figure far more. Dooku would be comparable to someone like Lenin.
@@kingorange7739 Lmao Lenin sure. What the hell are you smoking? Lenin didn't colonize and enslave countries did he?
17:27
And the award for Dookus scariest facial expression goes to…
All I need as an example if how evil Dooku is is taking a look at general Grievous
When you boil it down, Dooku was basically star wars' parallel to Senator Armstrong from Metal Gear Rising Revengance.
He became evil, surely, but he wasn't always that way. Dooku was a good man before he fell to the Dark Side. He was a very flawed Jedi, but at least he remained in the Light because of Qui-Gon Jinn.
You're one of the only channels that actually understands SW 🥺 thank you this was so relaxing and interesting.
Love how you describe him, for some reason it's surprising to a lot of people but, he was a bad guy.
I like how the expanded universe fills in information about characters that suck in the movies. The movies teach us literally nothing about dookus character. He is probably the worst Star Wars movie character ever
Dooku simply wanted to topple the senate and weed out corruption. Sidious had the resources. This is someone who thinks Mace/Yoda did no wrong. lol
Amazing video,I'm glad you are doing longer stuff
Damn Dooky wanted to make a more tolerant version of the imperium of man.
That waa a great video. Phenomenal way to end it with Dooku's final thoughts 👏
Sympathetic or not, Dooku was 💯 correct about the Jedi. Your personal feelings on his character or the Jedi are of no consequence to that fact. The Jedi had become complacent in their positions of power and allowed the Sith to grow right under their noses.
Dooku was not 100% right, and such an ignorant view of the Jedi comes from a place of bias. Yes, they were complacent. Yes, they were fallible. Yes, there were times where they objectively dropped the ball. However, it is foolish to argue that they "allowed" the Sith to grow under their noses because it's not true. The prequels revealed that the Sith hid their presence from the Jedi using the Dark Side. It's not as simple as propagandists think it is.
"Apart from hating non humans, Dooku also despised cyborgs-"
So you're telling me all this time he had a deep hatred towards Grievous?
Yes. In the ROTS novel, Grievous caught strays from Dooku when he tells Sidious that they shouldn't recruit Anakin because he was a cyborg, terribly undisciplined, and too unpredictable. Like Geetsly said, Dooku ironically kept the beings he hated the most closest to him. It was no different with Grievous. He viewed Grievous as an abomination because he was mostly machine, though he never told Grievous this to his face.
Ben Shapiro made a list ranking the star wars films, and he said Count Dooku was cool because he was like a free trade libertarian lmao