How Communism Nearly Starved Vietnam
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- The 1975 collapse of the Republic of Vietnam - commonly referred to as South Vietnam - ended a three decade struggle to reunify the country.
The victorious North Vietnamese - led by the Communist Party of Vietnam or CPV - then embarked on a series of economic measures to wipe away colonialist influence and bring socialism to the country.
However, these measures failed to achieve their goals and the country tilted dangerously close to a famine.
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12:58 Let's not forget though that it was Cambodia who invaded Vietnam first and massacred some villages before Vietnamese decided to depose the Khmer Rouge.
You're forgetting the Viet Cong using Cambodia to avoid US airstrikes during the war.
@@cstgraphpads2091 And? Does that change the fact that Khmer Rouge attacked first?
@@cstgraphpads2091 very relevant lmao
@@erroredhacker not really. KR tried to conquer basically southern Viet Nam. Imagine if Mexico tried to take Texas and see what America would do...
I figured to stay on topic. The whole Vietnam Cambodia and China triangle I’ll keep for some time later.
My parents were growing up during this time. The stories they tell us were hard to believe. We were literally starving to near dead. Did not have anything from clothes to electricity. The only food was from ration stamp which is barely feed the children. Sure, we did win glorious wars, but there was no glory in poverty. Luckily for us, Vietnam is changing. Economy is growing fast, my generation now lives a better life and have more opportunity to pursue education as well as career. I believe we will get better and better in the future. Our country has had enough suffering 🙏🙏🙏
One thing you should remember , we manage to develop is thanks to peace , so don't be a war monger and don't let other trick you into one 👍 especially chosing side , all vietnamese need to be pro Vietnam first not american or Russian or china or anyone else they will fuck us over for they own interest
I lived as a child in Vietnam circa 1983 and saw a lot of this. Seas of bicycles in the cities that had no brakes.
VietNam future is gloomy if the CVP is not challenged for its flaws. Absolute power always yield absolute corruption.
Vietnam is growing fast, each time I go there I am amazed at how much has changed from my previous visits. In 2002 I would have said Saigon was 50 years behind western cities, in 2012 I saw Saigon was almost equal with an average western city. Now the skyline of Saigon is completely different, many overseas companies setting up factories, huge apartment complexes, huge central business areas, the people have more wealth and much better health.
Vietnam is a booming country.
@@raygale4198 "2012 I saw Saigon was almost equal with an average western city." No bro. If you go to District 1, maybe. But most of Saigon is poorly managed and the city development is abhorrent
The Sino-Vietnamese war wasn't just a brief invasion of the PLA into Vietnam that failed. It lasted years until the normalization of diplomatic relationship between the two after the Soviet Union's collapse. A drastic increase in military spending by that basically worsened the already struggling economy with more hardship since the Chinese forces were still pressuring the border with a lot of its forces all the way until the early 90's, often did some small scale attacks onto Vietnamese villages in regions near the border during the period, forcing the VPA to stretch itself over to defend the Northern regions while still have to maintain a large portion of their forces in Cambodia to help rebuilt it and to avoid another Khmer Rouge insurgency to be able to topple the new Cambodian government that was still too weak to defend itself.
I second this.
The war/conflict lasted till late 1980s
@@LongTran-em6hc I third this. I recently returned from a very moving ceremony in the border town of Ha Giang, Vietnam commemorating the soldiers who fought in the China invasion. I personally heard from the soldiers who were there they they served all through the 1980's.
@@christopherhamlin6139 my family has veterans from Vị Xuyên, Hà Giang (c9/d3/e174/316 Div, 1983-1984)
I dug up a cool 60mm mortar round from there.
The battlefield is still mostly untouched, so you can actually go digging up cool things there
@@christopherhamlin6139 14 of July ceremony, right?
The infamous N84 operation.
@@LongTran-em6hc That is correct.
When my father was in Ben Tre after the war, he said everyone was happy the war was over. A year or two into it, all the markets for food closed and the government opened facilities where you had to get food from. He started asking where the food was at and, why people were starving and what's with so many lines and then he started to realize the impact of the conflict's end.
The whole working for the state farm while cultivating your own farming/business was really ridiculous in its productivity. The corruption was so bad that my dad's neighbors paid the tax people a little extra money so they didn't have to pay the real tax on their businesses (which is really high depending on its lucrativeness). This ended up having the tax man earn extra money on top of the wage they got paid for by the govt by deliberately lying to the govt that about the business's lucrativeness
Yo mah man Kabutoes! Nice to see a fellow Viet here.
Didn’t expect to see the legend here. I didn’t know you were Vietnamese.
@@capncake8837 Dude it's obvious
17:50 yeah this is a big reason why the US was a massive grain exporter compared to the USSR and other communist powers. the US has many faults in the past and present, but the homestead act and similar programs were a great idea. by settling thousands of families on plots of land in each state it helped prevent big companies getting all the land right away and helped massively boost production at breakneck speed. people will work unbelievably hard and happily make grueling sacrifices if it's for themselves and their families, and the people knew years of backbreaking work would catapult them from poverty to what was like middle class for the world at the time.
Communism and corruption go together like salt and pepper.
I have aunts uncles and cousins who lived through those times. Vietnam became the third poorest country in the world. After Doi Moi and re establishing relations with the US their economy snowballed and then exploded.
Thanks the gross incompetence and widespread corrupt by the regime, Commie Vietnam is on track to be the poorest in Southeast Asia, surpassed by Laos and Cambodia, and soon by Myanmar.
Socialism is by nature adaptive. Trying to force one model into material conditions it wasn't designed for is idiotic and counter-revolutionary
It's pretty evil how the US keeps countries outside international trade when they don't fall in line with them.
@@_blank-_Why would they help commie!
@@MikhailSharma08 They helped China rise so 🤷♂️
I'm American, I live in Hanoi and my wife was born and raised here. She was a young kid in the late 1970s, her family was better off than most but I know she suffered. She got through all that and got a PhD at a major European university. Now that's something. As for that time, I don't talk about it much with her or her family. One thing I find amazing about Vietnamese people is their ability to persevere. The country has been through a lot.
“their ability to persevere”
My Vietnamese friend in college always got worse grades than me back in the early 90s. 20 years later, he had become far more professionally successful than me. I failed in my IT career, yet he had become a big success in IT, earning 6 figures, and highly in demand. He drives an Acura RSX.
He and I embody the saying,
“Hard times make strong men
Strong men make good times
Good times make weak men
Weak men make hard times”
My parents spoiled me.
His parents exploited him.
Like all the countries after war, look Japan or Germany, not to disagree with you, but humankind has more willpower than most ppl think
@@perfectsplit5515 half genetics, half education, half yourself ;)
@@kettelbe I think everyone has equal intelligence, I don't think genetics matter.
@@ta0304 Not really it's completely bogus. Those who performed better where much wealthier. Asia used rich and privileged students in those studies.
My family were refugees, my mom said even though we were very poor when we came to the US we still tried to send back food and medicine since it was worse over there.
In the 80s, US embargo, Chinese embargo, and collective farming was a nightmare. I was hungry all the time.
You're not even a real viet.
I'm not discounting the horrors of the past, but at least times are much better now 😊 Vietnam is an economic powerhouse in ASEAN,and will manufacture it's own EV. Gteetings from Malaysia :)
Yea as an American what we did to Laos and Vietnam was just horrible.
Cảm ơn anh đã chia sẻ
collective farming was the main reason
Intel Corp maintains a large manufacturing plant in Vietnam; established some years before I retired. I found it very gratifying that the 2 countries could establish common ground in business, and help in building a more prosperous future to the people .. the polar opposite of when I was a teen in the US of the 1960's.
Lowe's sells Green Works " pressure washers made in Vietnam.I two excellent stuff.
Money for the commies, if you didn't know, they love money
what you describe is exactly what happened with Germans and Japanese too, hated during the war but good friends 30 years later. my grandparents both lost siblings in WW2 but they helped bring some Japanese families over to the US in the late 50s and 60s and sponsored them.
“ we should not blame the American people for this war and when it all over , we will invite them to have tea”.
Hi Chi Minh
@@brucelee5576 Funny thing is the Americans feel the exact same way. I know Vietnam War veterans who vacationed in Vietnam, eat Pho in the US, and may even have Vietnamese friends or spouses. In the 70s Americans may have had a strained relationship and view of the Vietnamese but before long the relationship softened and now a majority of Vietnamese people view the US positively and even consider the US a "key ally". The US similarly has a surprisingly high opinion of Vietnam ranking them higher than any other communist country and having a strong fascination of Vietnamese culture and having pretty high opinions of Vietnamese people.
I wouldn't be so fast to blame the fall of the South Vietnam government on the late land reforms. It has been widely covered in reputable sources that the Catholic Fundamentalism of the government and elite of the South, in a largely Buddhist nation, played a major part in the opposition growing and overthrowing it.
I do not feel I made that blame. The collapse of South Vietnam was far more complicated than a single event.
@@Asianometry Fair enough!
Diem and his cronies would fit your description for sure, but later governments both under military and civilian rule did not have the same reputation for Catholic fundamentalism afaIk (correct me if I'm wrong)
@@flubadubdubthegreat1272
You're right, but at that point those governments already had a negative image about them.
They couldn't just be a part of years of opression and then go "Oh no, we're entirely different now; we shot the last ruler last week after all". People aren't going to believe it.
@@flubadubdubthegreat1272 you need to dig deep into the system of South Vietnamese politic. The president changed but official were not. They are all have the same origin - former official of French colonialist, be taught in the same education, and, as the former ARVN major general Do Mau said, heavily effected by Catholic belief. That explain why ROV never could gain the support of the population. They are former collaborator of the French and they are Catholic. That's everything the communist need to blame this regime, gain enough support from the people and boom.
Another great, informative video on Asian history. I can't believe one person can throw together these videos about history and the semiconductor industry. Keep up the good work.
Certainly here in Australia, there is a huge population of ethnically Vietnamese people who started arriving during the war. It can be argued that it was the war and the waves of refugees that officially ended the silly 'White Australia Policy'. We had been dragged into the Vietnam war because of a defence agreement with the USA and the war was wildly unpopular. Because of the huge sense of collective guilt in fighting the war, many Vietnamese refugees were accepted into Australia as everyone could see the hypocrisy in invading a nation and then not even helping people trying to flee. I imagine a lot of non-Australians don't realise that Australia has a huge Vietnamese population.
That’s interesting and all but, what does it have to do with anything here?
@@Trashcansam123 What does Vietnamese people leaving a struggling country have to do with Vietnam struggling? Hard to say...
@@Trashcansam123 The Video was about Vietnam....
I used to think it was hypocrisy until I became friends with a refugee from Vietnam that thought that America was right to try and stop the spread of communism throughout Asia.
Does Australia have more Vietnamese or Indonesians?
Thanks for the content, little is known about post-war Vietnam. I would like to leave the suggestion for an upcoming video: How Vietnam ended up benefiting from the US vs China trade rivalry and attracting companies that are generating jobs and bringing economic development.
For that one, I parody a line from Ho Chi Minh, to have the following: "China and the US are dissing each other, and our popcorn."
In short, due to "history", we really don't like picking a side now. We stay neutral - in that way, we can gain the best from different (and quite likely, opposing) sides in the same time.
Better a video about the atrocities of the US in Vietnam
@@lehoang3532 intelligent attitude of the Vietnamese people, which I respect a lot.
@@juanvga but this is already well known and repudiated by the international community.
@@pranayamfamily tell that to million of people that burn in their own house thank to american booming or ten of thousands of people still live today with the orange poison in their body that make their children look like monster or million of mine that liter the farm and still kill people in this day
I'm so glad Vietnam is now united and the fastest developing country in Asia. They really deserve an economic miracle like Korea, after everything they've been through.
Vietnam nowadays definitely perform far better than other ASEAN countries in terms of GDP growth, but still like 75-80% of East Asian GDP growth, when they were at their prime.
ASEAN countries growth: 0-5% a year
Vietnam: 6.5-8% a year
East Asia + SIngapore growth at their prime: 9-14% a year
They’re a totalitarian country. They will never succeed.
if they had not made war but worked with us (usa) they would equal SOUTH KOREA
@@StephenMortimer The USA was the clear aggressor in the Vietnam war.
@@StephenMortimer Ho Chi Minh tried being allies with the US, instead US chose France.
Great video. Vietnam's story shows the importance a proper planing and learning from the mistakes others have already made regardless of party politics.
Mises states you can not calculate human action. There is no planning that can successfully run an economy as the economy is made up of of millions of individual decisions made by millions of people every single day. Trying to control those decisions leads to disaster. Communist, and all Socialism is a technical impossibility. So there was no planning by the Party that could of saved them. Letting farmers, merchants to do their job is all they had to do. But because of the ideals of communism they got in their way.
@@Alte.Kameraden I understand how you can come to that belief. Collectivization has never been very effective. But leaving people to their devices leads to the exact land Lord situation that necessitated land reform in the first place.
Governments can and have controlled, understood and guided their economy. But understanding the balance between the States strengths and the individuals strengths is required.
did not expect a communist country being honest about missing annual quotas or admitting failure with a policy
Still confusing communist collectivism with European socialism. The United States two tier, and worse, vulture capitalism is so great
Gee, that's not what I got out of this video. I think it shows that central planning didn't work, and you can't make laws that attempt to change human nature. The central planning didn't and never has worked because there is no way the planners can obtain and analyze all the information at the level of detail that would be required to even approach what a free market attains with a decentralized price system in an open market that can respond quickly to changes in resource availability. And human nature is essentially selfish, at least to the unit of the family. So when central planners are given all the power, they quickly succumb to corruption so as to obtain benefits for themselves, not for the "good" of the "state". People are greedy and selfish by way of their evolutionary heritage - better to accept this fact and incorporate it into the economic system, even if it means people that work harder and/or come up with new, better ideas get rich.
I still remembered seeing TV news footage about those people died in the sea when they flee Vietnan with little fishboat. I was in elementary school at that time. and now, I am also so sad and frustrated that the young kids here in US still believe the communism equality is the way to go. The school teachers never told them what happened 50 years ago.
Do you think Western barbarism in Vietnam in 19 & 20.centuries was better ??? Vietnamese are politically mature enough to survive .That's why Vietnam can exist next to China
Traitors escaping from country what a dramatic.
you're misunderstanding the situation.the conclusion is to bow down to your overlord and let them exploit your own lands so they dont sufficate you.
funny how unlike what happened to Cambodia,the main cause of destruction was American imperialism😂
@@sakmadik69420 It was no imperialism nor did it cause the destruction.
As a US Vietnam vet I appreciate this update on the history of Vietnam. I'm glad that after years of colonial domination Vietnam is doing well.
You're a criminal who should value ever second of stolen life you live.
So when is the US gonna pay that $2 billion?
You were a part of the colonial domination. You and your criminal government did horrible things to Vietnam.
@Theodore Olson America will pay though. They will pay for all of their crimes. All your hard work will be for nothing because America will collapse
@Theodore Olson That's going to be a big mistake. We said the same thing about China when normalizing relations with the CPC was considered a good idea. America never seems to learn from its past.
Well, you've earned a new subscriber for this one. I'm trying to learn more about various historical schemes of giving farmland *directly* to those who actually till it, instead of collectivizing it or maintaining the control of landlords, has been a sort of hobbyhorse of mine as of late. I didn't really know where to look, though, but I did know there were some instances of it in 20th century East Asia. I've also been curious to know what Vietnam was up to after the end of the Second Indochina Conflict (again, I didn't know where to start). All I knew was that they went through a process similar to China (and I've heard, but don't know for certain, that today's Hanoi is less authoritarian than today's Bejing, yet still far more authoritarian than a proper democracy). While I know a reasonable amount of how China went from Maoism to Dengism (and how that sort of transition mostly couldn't happen for the successive Kims in N. Korea) I didn't know much about the details for Vietnam. Now I feel like I have a good overview. Thanks for existing
You should read up on agrarian reform in Thailand and the Philippines. Both countries had vastly different results. Thailand is now an agricultural exporter whereas the Philippines needs to import its own rice.
Ho Chi Minh is Mao's puppet. In fact, there has been more than 1 Ho impostors (Nguyen Ai Quoc died in Hong Kong in 1932), and the latter Ho (aka Hu Kwan in Chinese or "Ho Quang" in translated Vietnamse) was a Commie Chinese, or Red Army Commie Chinese intelligence officer, and not Vietnamese, and that was listed as one of the top mass murderers of 20th century, ranked among fellow Commie mass murderers & butchers Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol-Pot. His deadly land-reform alone killed nearly 1 million North Vietnamese landowners. Don't believe the Commie propaganda. Do your own research.
Ho Chi Minh has always been a Commie Chinese puppet. Vietnam was a beautiful country until the Commie terrorists, formerly led by Mao's Chinese puppet Hu Kwan Chinese Intelligence Officer aka Ho Chi Minh, over and turned its 95% population into de-facto slaves.
Ho Chi Minh wrote and spoke Chinese better than Vietnamese. Even when he tried to write Vietnamese, his writings were full of spelling and grammatical errors like those of a 2nd grader. He always wore Chinese clothing and not Vietnamese. All true. Check out his photos and his archived letters. Not only that, Vietnamese Commies tried their hardest to brainwash people with lies about his being educated, single, and pure to serve the country, but in reality he was an addicted, playboy with third-grade education and multiple mistresses. He even tried to mouth r*pe young Indonesian girls and was ordered not to do so. Search "President Ho told to stop kissing girls" The Straits Times, 8 March 1959, Page 8.
In Vietnam, he r*ped women, including Nong Thi Xuan and once she became pregnant, he murdered her whole family to cover up. Even former senior Party loyalist Bui Tin was shocked by his behavior All true. Do your research. He is world's top 10 mass murderers of 20th century. His land reform (1953-1956) alone in North Vietnam killed nearly 1 million North Vietnamese. This lowlife demagogue is who the Vietnamese Commies worship and brainwash Vietnam's younger generations to worship the cult with his photos all over Vietnam. Commies love worshiping mass murderers like Commie China's Mao, Vietnam's CCP puppet Hu Kwan (aka Ho Chi Minh), former Soviet's Stalin & Lenin, North Korea's Kim Jong-il, Cuba's Castro, etc. to perpetuate their totalitarian grip on the populations. As food for thought, I leave you with a quote from an enlightened hardcore Commie: "I gave up half of my life for communist ideals. Today I have to confess with sadness that the communists only spread propaganda and lies"- Former Soviet Union President Mikhail Gorbachev.
Ho Chi Minh wrote and spoke Chinese better than Vietnamese. Even when he tried to write Vietnamese, his writings were full of spelling and grammatical errors like those of a 2nd grader. He always wore Chinese clothing and not Vietnamese. All true. Check out his photos and his archived letters. Not only that, Vietnamese Commies tried their hardest to brainwash people with lies about his being educated, single, and pure to serve the country, but in reality he was an addicted, playboy with third-grade education and multiple mistresses. He even tried to mouth r*pe young Indonesian girls and was ordered not to do so. Search "President Ho told to stop kissing girls" The Straits Times, 8 March 1959, Page 8
Search for tragedy of the commons.
Just read the actual theorists if you want to learn about political systems. This stuff is not educational beyond seeing how global capital based economies choke those less fortunate countries who choose not to be in exploitative capital based systems.
@@Emppu_T. Tragedy of the commons is arguably talking about everything from how free trade destabilized the southern hemisphere to why anarcho-capitalism fails. It's not really about communism.
Holy hell. I checked this out again after a day, and the comments and views have exploded. I’m actually wondering if you can make a video on the economy of both sides during the war, particularly of that in the South. It doesn’t get talked about a lot despite being the other major participant in the war, and I hope that some sources would be provided here as well!
The south Vietnamese were reportedly killed or pacified after the war by the north. I used to revere the north for their resolve and bravery during the war...and still do, really. I understand their fight against the French....but what I never considered until I was an adult was the feelings of the people who embraced the western influence. There's a whole other side of the story which is rarely discussed. I don't know what life in Vietnam is like now, but I'm pretty sure it's not ok to question it there.
@@Marcjacobs97 The fight against the French was a generally universal thing among Vietnamese both North and South regardless of political ideology or religion during that period. The problems came when the country was partitioned and the general area entered into an ideological civil war between the communists and anti-communists, both equally nationalist, but backed by opposing sides of the Cold War. It’s only recently that the South Vietnamese side has had any real say in any of this, and even then, it’s only been on a scholarly level. The Vietnam War was never as simple as just a “war against imperialists” for the Vietnamese. The other side that the Communists were fighting were their fellow Vietnamese as well, and people forget that for some reason.
@@georgelabe-assimo4365 and that "fellow Vietnamese" was completely controlled by the US. At least North Vietnam could make their own decision and plan in major problem like military or Paris talk. South Vietnam after Diem is a real puppet. Too many South Vietnamese official talk about this, like Mr.Ky, the former Vice president, who joined some air strike on the North then come back and drink Coca Cola.
@@georgelabe-assimo4365 equally what? Nationalist? Nationalist in South Vietnam? Which nationalist could allow a total control of their country from another country? The only nationalist high rank official in South Vietnam is Diem. The rest are a bunch of US dog.
The communist in the North looks more "national" than the "nationalist" in the South I would say. They talk a lot about patriotism . In the South , gorvernment talk about "killing commie", when many people didn't know what is commie and the only thing they saw is a government was controlled by foreigner, bombing their own nation and killing their own civilians.
The late Senator W. Fulbright called the Republic of Vietnam "An American Brothel". What was Brothel's "economy", when the US gave 3 billion a year aid for 14 mill SVN ?
Exactly, people are more productive if they own their enterprise. That's why governments should give tax credits to cooperatives instead of subsidizing huge multi-nationals with tax loopholes.
I see a parallel with the holodomor in former Ukrainian SSR when forced collectivisation and basically stealing farmers food led to famine in that region of the former Soviet Union. Also China suffered similar famines with similar policies being adopted by the Maoist communists in the 1950's. Cambodia tried similar policies, disastrously and murderously forcing urban dwellers into collective farms and death camps and outlawing modern technical and scientific education as "outer foreign influences" etc.
On the other hand outright colonialism has also failed in the famines during WW2 in Bengal and dysfunctional land ownership patterns and policies in Central and South America, too much land in too few inexpert hands.
Zimbabwe in Southern Africs is an example of dysfunctional land reform where commercial farmers were evicted and unorganised inexperienced small holders were given the land instead.
These were often former soldiers and supporters of Mugabe, an avowed Marxist, and often had no experience or knowledge of farming.
Zimbabwe now suffers food shortages where once it was the breadbasket of the region.
Post WW2 in Europe saw countless food shortages and near famines alleviated only by assistance from the US until the EU was formed and a common agricultural policy was drawn up to organise and support farmers and try to ensure food security within Europe. Despite its many flaws the policy keeps a diverse and ready supply of food to Europes 450 million people.
Recent events in Ukraine and its role as a supplier of grain to 400 million people in North Africa and the Middle East is now set to show the importance of each country to be self sufficient in staple foodstuffs where at all possible.
Or we could stop giving the government half of our wages and embrace free market enterprise.
@@Marcjacobs97 and let corporations force us to work 80h a week with barely enough pay to survive 😍
@@polygentle5679 Sorry, but if you’re not making a 100k/yr you’re either lazy or not too bright. Don’t blame a system that works, blame yourself.
@@polygentle5679
Most people don't work for corporations. And it's certainly not their fault if you don't have the skills, smarts or ambition to get something better.
While your focus is Asia, I would be very keen to see a video like this on Russia post-1991. My understanding is that there was the rapid dismantling of the prior economic and political systems on the advice of the West to introduce market capitalism. This failed dismally with oligarchs grabbing key resources. However, the failed state has continued to this day and has even deteriorated with the current war. Apparently, there is a Russian saying; "that things will only get worse".
Good news: most of Russia is in Asia
@@DQSpider Bad news: most of the people live in the european part
@@axelNodvon2047 so the people in the Asian part don't count?
@@DQSpider Yep, GUN THEM DOWN!
@@DQSpider Russia considers itself European...
Thanks this is a fantastic view of history which influenced my life, from afar, and the best explanation I've seen of the Vietnam transformation since 1973.
"communism starved people"
In other news: water...wet 😂😂😂😂😂
My grandma for some reason seemed to like collective farming in their village. She lived in a forest surrounded by swamps and the soviets dried out those swamps, creating tons of farmland. Those lands were extrimely fertile at first, but they became infertile (too acidic or what) very quickly and farming in that area is still considered a somewhat questionable decision.
There is this ownership bias phenomenon, I wonder whether it's just people start to overinvest their own efforts into their own land or does the mere fact of you owning the land make you more attentive to all the risks and choices you make(or both)? Or does it simply aleviate moral hazard situation? I assume that for some people collectivist system might actually work, but not in a large scale and most definately not for everyone.
Boils down to: it's very hard to force people to do something against their will. You can force them to do something, but you can't really force them to do it well. If some people want to work in a cooperative, I'm sure they can have wonderful results. But first, they need to want that for themselves.
@@julkiewicz I wonder if soviets had some version of Laffer curve to figure out the optimal ammount of force you have to apply to the workers in order to achieve maximum gains.
BTW my grandma also loved polish rule. Maybe that´s just her pre-war childhood memories, but she told me numerous cool facts like you could get one zloty for one captured bark beetle. She was very cheerful and positive person, but according to her, every rule was good, it´s just those who didn´t want to work were seeking a reason not to work.
@@sshko101 Everyone thinks their childhood was better because they were young, fit and care-free. Maybe your grandma just got older, her bones started aching and she had more responsibilities to think about. For example, sometimes I will go back and play video games from my childhood I had fond memories of, and almost always they are terrible by today's standards.
land becoming infertile is mostly due to wrong farming technique being used. The land has to be treated after several rounds of farming.
@@Patangy No she was always happy about her life, the only really dark part of it was the WW2. She told me plenty of the dark episodes from that war: germans with flamethrowers, burnt women, dying from starvation, saving her little sister's life, she even showed me all the places where germans were executing people (shooting them or hanging). After the war all her stories were good again, like when she flew on a plane to cultivate the untouched lands in the Kazakhstan.
Really what Vietnam did was they also discovered communism doesn't work, so they copied the Chinese approach (allowed capitalism but insisted it's still called socialism) and got similar results.
Unfortunately Vietnam is just China's little slave and is one Taiwan away from becoming another Tibet.
@@thientuongnguyen2564 I thought the relations between the two countries were still sour
@@_blank-_ It has been for the last 2000 years and is, by West Taiwan's standard, "face value". But Vietnam can't do much in fear of retaliation and it's gonna be much worse than 1979.
@@thientuongnguyen2564 Isn't Vietnam increasing its military cooperation with the US?
@@_blank-_ Why should Vietnam let West Taiwan bully it right in the front yard any longer? Why risk having the country be another West Taiwanese province like Tibet. Do you really believe siding with communism will solve anything?
Misnomer, you should say How colonialism and imperialism starved Vietnam, not communism. Communism never existed in Vietnam. Communism is an aspiration to the Vietnamese
Thank you, I agree with you.
So, China took over Tibet. You would assume they would divert some water for their own use. I know they've built hydroelectric dams upstream of Vietnam and other area countries. I don't have time to look over time lapse pictures of the Mekong Delta. But my guess is it looks different from the picture I saw presented in this video. Just a hunch.
In fact, China built those damn things solely to pressure Cambodia and Vietnam into being their lap dog. Then proceeded to fuck those nations up after deeds anyway. Evil CCP pricks.
Not only China,but Laos,Thailabd,Cambodia built hydroelectric dams too.About 20 dams has been built.The Mekong river is dying.
No party is perfect. During their time in power, they may make mistakes that cause consequences, but sometimes we, the descendants, should look at the context objectively to see if those consequences are worth a more noble goal. The Communist Party of Vietnam has also made many mistakes, but what they have done for the country has far surpassed those things, as evidenced by its determination to regain independence for the Vietnamese people by expelling the imperialists, the most powerful nations in the world at that time and unified the country to have a rapidly developing Vietnam like today.
gotta say though that the Vietnamese fought hard to live in a unified socialist republic in which the communist party is the only legal one. I hope the Vietnamese people is happy with that result in the last 50 years.
Mao and Stalin tried collective farming too and it starves people every time.
Taliban Afghanistan : hold my Mecca-Cola.
One thing many people forget is , after 1978-9 Vietnam have to feed Cambodian , they agriculture was none exist by then , every thing was in ruin and damage from war and khmer rouge , Vietnam after 75 especially south west region was raid by khmer rouge and she'll by them all the time , many people say 72-75 rice production in south still increase and why it collapse after 75 ? Simple 75 there was big legit war where both side army clash on field unlike before where it limit to division or regiment to smaller size battle , million of people flees to city from country side where most fighting happen from both side , hence after the war the govt try to made people return to the farm , but like any new govt form it always have chaos ( not in the north but in the south , you have to find who to run what and train them , remember they are soldier many need to be train and they also need to found civil with degree and whom can be trust to be in new govt ) most of the male population was in the army and most still in army after the american war cause we have 2 front war 1 vs khmer rouge and another vs china it only end in 1990 , hence agriculture can't increase and like host say collective don't work especially in the south whom also used to capitalist system , one thing even many vietnamese don't know is we have to support lao both rice and rebuilt they country after 75 , remember folk Laos was most heavy bomb country .
yeah yeah yeah, keeep blaming!
@@danghoangluong2942 that's rich coming from a catholic lap dog.
Who would have thought that people work smarter harder when they personally profit from it?
Socialists certainly don't think so. Then again, they hardly think at all.
Ah yes, like sweatshop workers? They sure do earn a lot in proportion to their hard working.
@@ansyyxux he said personally profit. Sweat shops aren't a personal profit, they are barely enough to sustain life. Use your comprehension skills, I know you have them.
@@cruzgomes5660 sweatshops themselves obviously earns profits, otherwise they wouldn't have continue with their business, while the workers get the same minimum wage, barely enough to live. My point is that the people who work harder/smarter most of the times aren't people who personally profits from it.
@@ansyyxux there is a limit to how much hard work/ smart work gives you given your circumstances. If you want more it would be wiser to find better opportunities. I.E. immigrate. I know I know, easier said than done, but if you want to have a better living than that of a sweat shop worker it would be wise to go somewhere where sweat shop isn't the best opportunity for you around.
I think the title here is misleading at best. The best framework for the many famines after regime changes I have heard is this: Industries do not like fast change, especially agriculture.
This is a way better way to look at it than „communism will make famine“ as it also explains why we see famines after the Soviet union collapsed but we didn‘t really see any in the soviet union after Stalin. It is the shock to the established mode of production that will decrease yield, not necessarily the mode of production itself. (Though obviously some modes will still be better than others but these big decreases are due to shocks, no the systems)
You're not wrong, but I could still argue that the two perspectives you noted can be connected. It's entirely true that industries are averse to fundamental changes in society, but the socialists preach about quick and radical changes to the fundaments of society (and the communists burn themselves for it). When they rose to power, they assume themselves a position that is larger than the economy and started messing with it much worse than the capitalists, and industries suffered. It is after the dissidents have bled away from the country (like when they died or defected to the capitalists), that the rest could "get with the program". So yeah, in a way communism could very likely "make famine".
@@minhtovunhat5389 Turns out 2 + 2 =5 means extreme deficiencies for long term. Who woulda thunk the very basics of communism wouldn't work when intelligent people were eradicated?
@@minhtovunhat5389Communism is a broad ideology, so there are ofc communists who arent like how u described, like Lenin with the NEP plan.
I highly advice u to not throw the word 'communism' around like its only one ideology when there are many. Like Marxist, Marxist-Leninist, Stalinist,...
And also i want to add is because capitalists tend to have the wealth, means, and expertise to hoard large amounts of wealth, they can easily escape the country with their wealth, leaving the country after a Socialist gov get in power having much less to work with, which somewhat showed in the video where the lack of education hampered the economic plans of the gov.
@@unserkatzenland8884 I appreciate the goodwill if any, but I just can't take your words seriously. To clear the air, I didn't refer to "communists" by their ideology, I was referring to the people who enacted violent revolutions in the name of a socialist society, which they want to establish so as to pave the way to a communist society. You know, like the ones who tried to do so in my country. It did not matter to me whether the people among the ranks of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, or of China, or of Vietnam were endorsing Marxism or Leninism or Trotskyism, because historically they all joined hands in overthrowing a monarch or a colonial society to try and establish a socialist state (which would be primed into evolving in a communist state). I admit it's not scientifically correct to use the term like that, but then it's not a serious flaw that a reasonable person would miss my points entirely.
Besides, are you seriously nitpicking about political ideologist labels, and then generalize about an entire class of people called "capitalists?" There are always criminal capitalists, and there are also corrupt socialists. There are also virtuous people on both of the camps I mentioned. In that sense, I can't learn anything from what you said about capitalists, because it makes too many specific assumptions based on a group that is poorly defined. That is why I said I can't take your words seriously.
the USSR and China both had enough food to feed their population and it is clear as day that the policies they applied are responsible for the collapse of food suply. The policies were created and carried out by the communist parties. You certainly can therefor say "communism will make famine" becaues it literally does.
Really happy to see the progress the Vietnamese have made from hell and high water, being attacked externally and with internal failures.🙏
My grand parents have similar stories from similar times in India who also suffered the oppression of Imperialism and then the cold war so we can empathise and be happy for your success.
Meanwhile, India supports Russia's sick and evil mass murder in Ukraine.
Communism = robbery + slavery + propaganda + authoritarianism + cronyism + terrorism
Thank you
Similar thing happened in India,when the socialist govt declared an emergency,suspended fundamental rights and nationalized industries. What followed was an economic crisis,hunger and rise in diseases
"Socialist" government that exempted most of the middle class from income taxes, crushed unions, slashed wealth taxes, implemented an austerity programme that cut education and healthcare funding, freezed wage increases, withheld DA to combat inflation, demolished the houses of the poor to build wider roads, liberalised investment procedures, in fact there was more disruption caused due to lockouts during the period than strikes. Most of the big nationalisations happened before or after the emergency, the democratic Janata Party government did more of the big ones than Emergency era Indira Gandhi government. Also in terms of hunger per capita kilocalorie supple in 1975-77 remained similar to pre-emergency years.
@UC_3fjcXNU8j8qPJo1Hn6Lew no the economic situation declined again during 1976 with high inflation and unemployment, the government failed to handle these issues and mismanaged things in general, that with authoritarianism especially the demolitions, suppression of organised labour and forced sterilisations destroyed the congress's social base of dalit, upper class hindu and muslim voters with the Congress even suffering a split where one of its prominent dalit leaders broke off to form a new party. Which keep in mind the 1977 elections were hardly fair with opposition leaders being generally unable to even campaign, were made virtually invisible on radio and television, and all observers believing it would be a guaranteed Congress win. The Janata party government too failed to handle the inflation and unemployment situation, clamped down on organised labour, failed to correct wrongs of the emergency, and fell to internal bickering once JP was out of the picture.
But "That wasn't real socialism!"
Cue the blue-haired pronouns crying out in anger.
@@thefalsehero 😅🤣
If one nation don't opens the market or don't free the market today they have to do it tomorrow when wealth is exhausted and no one of citizens is willing to produce wealth anymore. If you want welfare and public services also it's possible but one have to keep an eye out for corruption and keep the sheet balanced at the end of the day produce more then you borrow. Don't tax too much to discourage people. Moreover don't spend too much borrowed money.
Every once in a while, when things are going smoothly, people come along and try to improve the situation by shoving guns in peoples' faces and telling them what to do. And every time it fails.
This is quickly becoming one of my favorite channels.
I find it interesting that the VCP managed to eventually adapt given the dogma and lack of practical alternatives to "capitalism". It would be interesting to have more data and first hand experiences about living standards: how much can people afford food, shelter, access to education and health services, and not just rice production.
Rice production + distribution = food affordability. It's communism, everything is quota'd. Hence the joke "the meat shop that doesn't have meat is across the street".
The VCP is also not one "unified front", afaik. Factions exists within it, dating back to the original revolutionary movement. It's not a coincident that the economic reform was released on the same year as Le Duan's death - who was the leader of the pro-Soviet faction. And the leader of VCP at said time.
As for living standard, here's an anecdotal one: my mother still fondly recall the days immediately after the "Doi Moi" policy. Within 6 months, the household went from eating old, weevil infested rice, that isn't always even available, to freshly milled rice whenever needed. When people were allowed to sell their product freely, production & logistics soared.
They were attacked and invaded by China in 1979, also western nations blockade them for over 30 years. Only end in 1995, they are forced to adapt to free market to survive and growth. Its also need to mention China after the cold war has become the new target. Therefore, enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Conclusion: “Farmers work harder and get better results when they are working theire own lands and can reap the full economic benefits from what they end up growing” (Asianometry)
Karl Marx stated that the workers should and will own the means production. There is little conflict between what Asianometry said is good and what Karl Marx said is good. It's in stark contrast to the Soviet style communism where the Communist Party (power elite) owns and controls the production, it's so far off from Marxist socialism you can get!
I don't know what an practical alternativ to capitalism and soviet style communism is. I jus stated that the soviet style communism is so far of the original ideals it's possible to go.
@@lubricustheslippery5028 It's crazy how the soviet government managed to fool the people into thinking that they 'collectively own' the land, whatever the hell that means.
@@lubricustheslippery5028
Uhm, how can you 'collectively own' the economy (meaning you mus STEAL everything and ENSLAVE everybody) while working for your individual gain?
The two exclude eachother entirely. The Soviets are 100% marxist, because the party is everybody and everything. You just don't like that, because it points that marxism is a failed ideology that can never work and is inherently corrupt.
The Communist Party of Vietnam has simply pursued the “socialist orientation” towards the natural development of the self-subsistent economy into the commodity-market economy; there’s still a long road towards socialism.
With an average yearly salary of $3000 USD, I'd say there's a long road towards a U.S based market economy. Or am I missing something?
Every time I look into failed collectivization efforts, it's always that the state ends up owning and trying to manage the land/industry/whatever instead of worker lead collectivization. I would think worker collectivization/ownership alongside some form of state regulation would net better results, and allow the workers the flexibility needed to adapt. Are there any examples of this? I'd like to get to know these issues better.
The waters are a little muddied on that one. In Soviet Union, technically virtually all collective farms were owned by workers, not the state.
The state controlled the farms through roundabout ways, like interfering in management elections, using agricultural equipment as leverage, and intense taxation.
In the early USSR it seems like the state was obsessed with creating a secure food stockpile in case of a war, and was willing to impose ridiculous taxes under the impression that the peasants were growing significantly more, but hiding it. I'm pretty sure individual farmers were taxed even more than the collective farms.
I know that in the late USSR agriculture was working, even if inefficient, but suffered from chronic underinvestment. And inefficiency could probably be explained by the lack of investment incentive. Under capitalism, more efficient enterprises receive more investment, and so overshadow the inefficient ones. If there is a lack of investment at all - not like collective farms could go to collective banks to get a collective loan, after all - there will be no incentive to improve productivity.
It's called capitalism. State tells its people which land can be used for what (zoning), the people own the land and the market economy ensures that there's a built-in incentive to maximize land use for profits, while the state collects a percentage in tax. Farming collectives corporate to ensure no single crop is being over-produced to maintain the value in the market. Brilliant, isn't it?
Yugoslavia had some success with the model you describe
Yes, it's called the tragedy of the commons. Maybe some form of government intervention could mitigate the worst aspects of it, but I'd argue that that's what the Soviet Union essentially was.
At least in Poland families and workers "owned" the land, but it was hard to buy more machines and forbidden to get more plots of land from others, making it impossible for the most efficient members of society to enlarge their productive capacity.
@@Sundara229 "tragedy of the commons" is one of the most bizarrely ahistoric myths of economics, right up there with the myth of barter. Societies throughout history managed to collectively utilise their commons just fine, eg the English system of commons before it was forcibly abolished by the enclosure acts. Over utilisation only became a problem under capitalism, where it is incentivised.
Vietnamese communists having been historically learning and copying everything from the Chinese communists, from the Mao 's textbook of uprising and guerilla fighting to the process of destabilizing of the enemies ' government to finally topple and capure them.These include the grave failures of land and earlier economic reforms, persecution and purge of opponents and comrades alike, the normalization and open doors to Western nations, current economic policies, etc.
Today it is the political architecture and economical politicies that Vietnam imitates of the bigger Chinese brother next door. Vietnam and China share a complex love-hatred relationship as their regimes survival, security and stability depend on each other whilst at the same time the territorial disputes are simmering under the diplomatic surface.
You know shjt. Anything is good for copy is good copying. Vietnam adopt many policy all over the world not only chinese
Vì người lãnh đạo của chúng tôi thời đấy chúng tôi học tập các nước phương Tây nữa
"We have too little food." "Set a quota."
When I visited VN, my impression was that VN is less strict than China and has at least some inner-party democracy.
I hope VN will stay on course with economic and political liberalization.
The Vietnamnese people have faught hard to earn their freedom. They deserve to actually enjoy it and not have it stripped away by their own rulers this time.
Communism won and the country is still crap. The only way this country will get any better is to remove these communists.
I don't know what kind of political liberalizarion you expected, but I can certainly say that communist will not follow the Western-style democracy. They could aim for the Singapore's one but never the West.
I expected a law about ruling party. It's important in a constitutional one-party system. When the ruler is written in the constitution, it's necessary to make a law to control and limit its power . Party can't stand above law and state, that's what Vietnamese communist should think about. When that law is approved I think there will be a huge change , a big boom of Vietnamese economy, specially with the state companies.
funny, come and feel, I'm happy with life nơ
@@mrmakhno3030 Singapore is a democracy. One party dominated but they can lose. They only have 60-65 percent of the people. Theres always people who hate them (for a variety of good and stupid reasons)
@@haizzzz5220 what you mean? "I'm happy with life no" means you are happy or you are no happy?
A few things I would like to add:
Before, during and following the war, a lot of scholarly class got access to Western education. Before the war, people were going to France to study, or French teacher would come to teach to colonists alongside with the upper classes' children. Following the war, the Soviet-sphere allow Vietnamese to study in USSR and East Germany, which is also coupled with Sino culture of imperial education. So when Vietnam enact reforms, quite a number of them returned and become a high skilled labor force that became doctors, engineers, researchers. In fact, if you ask the older educated generations, you are more likely to find people knowing German, Russian or French than English. Even today, VN standard on natural science education remains comparably high.
While I am not promoting one party system, I do have to concede that it is pretty good at maintaining short to mid term political stability (with appropriate inner party checks and balance). Following many close call with famines, the thing that did not happen was a militia rebellion that could have set back decades of progress. Moreover, the constitution also prevent military coup, as the general secretary is supreme commander of the Army. While the military still holds a lot of sway, there are many legal requirements that prevent most generals from becoming a general secretary, and this I think is (bias) better than some of VN neighbors.
A lot of useful infrastructure was left from American and French force (not supporting colonialism, they only construct it as necessary to extract resources) so VN has access to hospitals, schools, libraries, ... in major cities like Ha Noi and Saigon, which was in stark contrast to rural areas with bombs, agent orange, ... This has a positive effect on urbanization and influence social and economical reform to a market-oriented system.
Those are very good points
The vast majority of those that studied abroad under free and prosperous Republic of South Vietnam wanted to return to South Vietnam to help build and develop the Republic. In contrast, the vast majority of those that studied abroad, most of whom were sons and daughters of the 5% of Vietnam's population- Commie Party government officials, under the current corrupt Commie Vietnam regime returned only the help their parents consolidate power of the regime to continue exploiting and enslaving the 95% of Vietnam's population. Those that escaped Commie Vietnam to study or work abroad and had no liability hostage by the regime in Vietnam never return. Huge difference there. Few places in the world have patients lying on the floors and hospital corridoes like in Vietnam under corrupt Vietnamese Commie regime.
@@thethaovatoquoc312bạn có sự thiên vị quá lớn
Maybe you can provide the source of data (books, journals, online articles) quoted in this video, for those interested people in further reading? If there are articles written in Chinese, will help me a lot.
LOL, I posted a serious comment criticizing the video and Asianometry deleted it! 😂
When people delete serious questions with no profanity, I seriously question their motives and knowledge of history...
Any way you can repost it?
I think this is a propaganda channel. Modern vietnam is still communist ffs.
What was it Comrade?
Which video?
Just found your channel, sounds like you're based in Taiwan too? I live in New Taipei, been here over 10 years. Love your videos.
Kinda funny how many comments are there when the video durations isnt over yet.
2x speed gang
Early access tier Patreon membership...
Lots of comments from commies jumping in to defend Vietnam (well, really just their ideology cloaked in caring about Vietnam lol)
1 slide seems to have errors:
334 kilograms
Per capital grain production, 1959
261 kilograms
Per capital grain production, 1959
I guess it should read "1961" for the latter
I whoud like to see you make a vidoe about an economic analysis of Vietnam (North and South)
another very good video from this excellent channel.
Another propaganda shit
After defeating Pol Pot Vietnam did want to retreat cz all that soldiers are farmers, workers, etc.
But the new government was weak and Pol Pot remnant was still there, with the back up of BOTH Chine and America, everything would had gone sour again for both Vietnam and Cambodians.
Because of this war, normalization with America in 1977~1979 around that period was halted. More sanctions.
So your point was China was backed by the US? Wut?
@@thientuongnguyen2564 Nowhere in his comment states or infers that, go learn logic 101 and come back.
@@proviptk Are you saying you know more of my own country's history than someone actually living in said country?
@@thientuongnguyen2564 Bro really master the skill of sourcing from his ass 💀
@@proviptk Excuse me, I was asking the OP to clarify his statement 'cause his Engrish was kinda confusing and you don't have to be a condescending prick about someone wanting straight answers.
Communists were like professors who like to carry on intellectual conversions, but when it came to solving practical problems in the real life. they had no clue or have a natural knack or expertise for it. They didn't realize pursuing personal wealth is one of the strongest forces in nature like several natural forces in nature and perhaps, granted by God. For example, collective farming created an environment that bred corruption, abusing power, stealing, irresponsibility (from the top down to the worker level) because no one really cared or strived for the common, collective benefits. In reality, everyone tried to rip the system off. Of all the places, we had famine in South VN in 1978. true form of communism breeds inefficiency, corruption, abuse of power. Everyone works and serves the benefits of one person or group of people at the top, yet, in theory, they (communists) preach everyone should work and serve for the common causes. sadly, that is and never has been the reality.
Comparison with professors is really bad.
I think it's best to think of money like sewage. It's the basic sludge that proves something happened. No matter your priorities, you need to harness the chaotic ability it has to level supply and demand. It's the waste product of work.
good comment
WW1 and WW2 famines were started once grain were export to fuel the wars. Life under the colonial empires had actual famines. Communist almost famine, but Vietnamese are resilent people.
I just hope the people upvoting you understand that there were no famines in Vietnam since 1945
I am quite curious how you could make this video without mentioning the impact of The French Or Americans, or Chinese for that matter. Or the war. Or US embargo.
What i can infer, is that Vietnam was able to begin to prosper when not under the thumb of a foreign power, and not at war with herself and her neighbors.
But then that wouldn't fit with the video's agenda of "communism/socialism bad".
You need to watch again several times over, the problem at its core is Communist doctrine setting stupid quotas and treating farmers as slaves for the state.
This isn't an anti-western rag. It sticks to facts rather than propaganda. CCTV and CGTN might be a better channel for you.
@@snowdog03 All communication is propaganda darlin'.
Getting rid of cognitive biases is impossible.
You should read foremost linguists and cognitive scientists like Chomsky for pointers.
i havent even pressed the play button, but let me guess: the author COMPLETELY suffers from dementia and alzheimers and just absolutely makes zero mentions of, and wholesale leaves out, western interference, sanctions, embargoes, blockades, more bombs dropped on it than the entire ww2 combined on ALL sides, AGENT ORANGE SPRAYED FKNG EVERYWHERE - and just like they did in North Korea, they salted and made barren literally ALL arable lands...
Sounds like the Communists did as best they could given a terrible situation.
1976 - 11.8 million tons.
1978 - 9.8 million tons.
1980 - 14.28 million tons.
They could have not been communists. It's not like there was not already several decades of communists causing massive famines as precedence.
@@JAKBOT3000 war is a great driver of famine. Vietnam has had plenty of wars since 1945.
Yeah, in 1980 Vietnam got an increase Soviet aids
amazing video! I love your channel!
_"...farmers work harder and get better results when they are working their own lands and can reap the full economic benefits of what they end up growing."_
This conflates two separate things: ownership of the land and using markets to distribute management decisions about what to grow. In this very video you mention that the five percent plots, which I understand not to have been owned by those farming them but merely _managed_ by those farming them, were far more productive than the "collectivised" plots of land.
To put it simply, adjusting certain things like this economy can help a country in a state of poverty, war, or sanctions.
Don't you think that rice production in north Vietnam between 1959 and 1975 may have decreased because of the extreme bombing and chemical warfare suffered from America?
Agree with almost everything in the video. I used to get stories about the time people kill their pig and broke their machines.
However, still can’t stand the word “invaded” used for Cambodia situation. Polpot are genocide criminals that got convicted, and need to be deal with as soon as possible
Cambodia did get invaded. it was invaded but not conquered
"Invaded" is not a bad word in this context. The Vietnamese did the world (especially Cambodia) a big favor by deposing the genocidal Pol Pot regime.
"invade" is just mean when you deploy troops in a foreign country. For example , "Normandy invasion" doesn't mean the Allied try to conquer France or anything. It just mean their troops got deployed to Normandy to kill Nazis.
That's what I mean by "still can't". I know it is not a bad word, just the power of cultural context itch me every time I heard that word. The only thing I disagree about is the number 15,000 ish seems to be a blown-up number.
Through your very successful and insightful soviet videos you gathered a bit of a tankie fanbase, they are seething right now. It's to funny.
6:49 Just a correction, it's spelled Nguyễn Văn Thiệu.
This video is amazing. I loveall the data
Also, Ngo Dinh Diem caused South Vietnam to lose the war. South Vietnam's failed land reform actually encouraged many farmers to join VietCong. A lot of South VIetnamese joined VC, not because they like Communism, but simply, because they hated the South Vietnamese government and want their land for farming.
Should Ngo Dinh DIem carried a Land-to-the-Tiller reform like Taiwan, South Vietnam could have survived!
You are partially right. Many Vietnamese in the south joined the VC out of a distaste of the Southern government but this is not why the south lost. They lost because the US cut off support for South Vietnam in the early 70s. In a broader sense, they lost because the US/South Vietnam strategy was too defensive. There was very little pressure placed on North Vietnam to bend to the will of the South/USA. When the US pulled back in the early 70s, the South Vietnamese were a capable fighting force and could have won with more support from abroad but unfortunately the anti-war movement in the US was just too powerful to curtail. The Soviets kept supplying the North Vietnamese with support and so the North won.
Vietnamese here. I’d also like to add that much of the Southern support (or at least membership) for the VC effectively collapsed after 1968 due to the Tết Offensive’s failure and the decimation of the force, along with the atrocities committed among the civilian population by them in the countryside.
I’ll add the caveat that the US and ARVN definitely committed a similar litany of war crimes as well during the war, but it seems people forget the winning side’s atrocities.
@@JAKBOT3000 The Vietnamese did not lose the war, they defeated the Americans and won their FREEDOM. Do you recognize the word?
You're wrong, it's only a matter of time before the PRC take back Taiwan.
@@Hopeless_and_Forlorn North Vietnam and South Vietnam fought in a civil war between nationalists on the communist side and nationalists on the anti communist side. Outside actors came in, took advantage of the situation, and basically screwed over the country in the long term as a result leaving one side to dry and the other to mismanage the country until the 90s. Leave the hippie bullcrap in the 60s where it belongs.
17:51 applies to schoolchildren as well. If parents don't see and criticize every single decision they make in every aspect of their life, they will actually learn life instead of just solving problems so that they can have some peace at the end
We love you! We appreciate your content and I’m sure that you are working very hard to produce it! We love your Mom too!
lmao
As I begin this video, I'll bet you're going to ignore the negative effects of US sanctions and decades of war on the country...
Why you need the help of the US if you have communism on your side😏
the sanction and decade of war mean shit because collective farming suck ass
@@minebro9055
The propaganda has worked perfectly on you.
@@cat_city2009 TF are sanctions supposed to do to domestic agriculture?
@@Peter_Schluss-Mit-Lustig It has a lot to do with precisely that, more than you would think! Agriculture requires heavy investments in irrigation systems, access to laboratories for soil analysis and pest control, and lots expensive agricultural machinery + fuel subsidies. Agriculture is not something you can easily develop while under sanctions by the top dog in all international financial institutions and the holder of the global reserve currency
This documentary should be "How Communism saved Vietnam from being like Philippines "
This documentary should be "How Communism saved Vietnam after the US bombed the crap outta the country and killed millions of civilians and land"
Actually, it should be how capitalism saved Vietnam from being like its neighbor, Cambodia.
But Communism made Cambodia worse than the Philippines.
@@shauncameron8390 pol pot wasn’t a communist. He was a primitivist mad man. Plus the Vietnamese were the ones that ended his reign.
Vietnam cannot be Philippines, it is a confucianistic society
oh no, i can sense the "NOT REAL COMMUNISM" comments coming
This video isn't aggressively anti communist though. I would love to see a discussion between this guy and Luna Oi and see if they disagree on anything
People seriously need to look past labels and think about game theory. It doesn't matter what the sales pitch was (e.g. "communism", "capitalism", etc): if a tiny group of people gains power by obliterating checks and balances (as *both* communist leaders and corrupt Western corporations excel at), the rest of us are going to get screwed. There will NEVER be "real communism" or "real capitalism". There will always be people trying to distract us while they rig the system against us. I am optimistic enough people will wake up, though.
@@coomdoon This guy would not discuss with Luna Oi. He would able to tell Luna Oi is just a joke
They are already here. There is a decently upvoted comment talking about how great Belarus still using Soviet systems is and how the only issue was that people were illiterate lol.
Even Soviet Union explicitly it should be only be considered as a intermediate 'socialist' system and that 'real' communism would be patched in later.
So that's why Vietnam embraced Capitalism soo much. From failed Communist policies, to hostile Communist neighbors. Thanks for the video.
They were attacked and invaded by China in 1979, also western nations blockade them for over 30 years. Only end in 1995, they are forced to adapt to free market to survive and growth. Its also need to mention China after the cold war has become the new target.
China is the who started it, don’t cry when Vietnam adopted they policies and strategies, during the late cold war China sided with the United State again Soviet Union, today Vietnam doing the same thing to them.
Therefore, enemy of my enemy is my friend.
@@Pein061 Thanks. Been reading news since the 2000's on foreign investment rushing in Vietnam. Also, they don't harbor hatred towards the US, according to my mom who went on business trips in Vietnam. And funny thing is that some middle-aged adults have little to no idea about those communist symbols.
@@carloa877 there's a phrase my grandfather heard somewhere, "Vietnam was at war with the US for over 10 years, the French for over 100 years, but have been fighting the Chinese for over a thousand years"
@@carloa877 the only real reason why they dont harbor any hate toward the U.S because literally half of the nation support U.S.
They are actually the most capitalist in the world according to Pew Research
I wonder if there's a pronunciation difference between North and South. Growing up, my best friends were Vietnamese immigrants, both surnamed Nguyen though unrelated, and they didn't use the initial N sound - basically like 'Win' as near as I can remember (it's been over 20 years since I've seen them, so I may have the wrong vowel sound in the middle there). One of them told me stories of their relatives burying jars of money on the beach towards the end of the war before they got out.
yes there are a lot of pronunciation differences
Yes
The middle provinces speak a different language lol
yeah the accent is wildly different. Not to the point that we couldnt understand eachothers, but it took me almost a year to get all of the slangs and mumbles :>>
Vietnamese uses mostly English letters for their alphabet, but there are a lot of vowel combinations and different sounds. Ng sounds like ng in English, but at the beginning of a word it can sound more like n. Uyen sounds like win.
In Vietnam, each region has its own timbre. It's not easy for people in other regions to hear
What makes a much greater difference than "capitalism" is (A) the rule of law (the same for everyone, which brings certainty and lower costs to economic transactions), through (B) some sort of democratic control of the State, which should provide (C) some common goods and services markets are unable to, such as health and education. In Vietnam's case many of its problems like bad land distribution can probably be traced back to France's idiotic colonization and exploitation.
What is this stupid claim that everything is the "fault " of the colonizers? North Vietnam was defacto it's own "de-colonized" state that got rid of many of the influences of its former master(s), they even got rid of Chinese concepts such as the persecution of landlords.
North Vietnam (soon to be modern Vietnam) failed in many of its policies because they are *Communist* where it only got better ever since they adopted a market economy instead. low-information people need to stop ascribing every single failure of a former colony nation state to Colonizers because they are their own country with their own complicated problems, and it quite frankly shows how little they know about the subject and how racist it is.
Yes, racists love blaming colonisation for all the problems.
Well you say that true. Compare to British administration of the colony. The French was very bad. At least the British knee what they was doing ( or at least know what to manage compare to the French) . That also one the reason why the USA Revolution don't turn to a massive mess like the French did.
Imagine how much larger the PRC economy would be without the yoke of the party.
Imagine the PRC without the PR bit.
@@西岚箱子 India has not succeeded in killing off seventy million of its citizens in artificial famines. Also fewer Gulags.
@@西岚箱子 Whataboutery isn't a valid answer. What's so funny about Mao Tse Tung starving and murdering innocent people? Probably some of your relatives too.
Whataboutery is just deflection. Mao is the BIGGEST MASS MURDERER IN HUMAN HISTORY. Bigger than Stalin or Genghis Khan. Bigger than the British.
Anyone who idolises Mao should hang their head in shame.
p.s. I'm not an Anglo-Saxon.
it will become just like india. hundreds of political party fighting each other but nothing gets done.
@@thursoberwick1948 PRC without P is now in Taiwan, and they are doing very badly. economy is still heavily relying on PRC.
Marx had some things to say about the problems of alienating workers from the result of their labor. Maybe somebody should have listened?
everybody is an expert on marxism these days, pointing to china and how everything is going downhill with state control
especially americans seems to know a whole lot about how marxism is the bane of every good thing anywhere in the world, surely they have read the original manifesto
@@megalonoobiacinc4863 Don't think that reading the manifesto makes you a marxism expert. it's like 30 pages lol
@@richiericher9084 the real experts read Das Kapital 30 times per day
@@richiericher9084 i haven't read it, I'm just saying there lots of people acting like authorities on what Marx was all about, and i doubt even 5 percent of them have read it
Ah yes, the marxists' tiresome old excuse whenever they hear marxism failed again: Oh no that was not real marxism, if they had just marxismed better, and outmarxismed themselves, it would've worked since marxism works. Marxism can't make any mistakes by definition, so if there's a mistake, it's not marxism, even though it is marxism.
Give up, your ideology has failed and can never work.
Somehow, this feels incomplete without mentioning the imperialism by the French and later the Americans in decimating the Vietnamese economy and its people down to a very low starting position.
I believe he does just that at the 8:00 mark no?
He's mostly picking up at the end of the US-Vietnam war so I get why he didn't go into the French, and he did mention that the country was left in tatters after reunification. I feel like if one wanted to make a video about how westerners effed over Vietnam it would be much longer than 18 minutes.
The GDP by year graph shows the Vietnamese economy under French control and the low starting position.
It's interesting to see the modern history of Vietnam and you've gone a fantastic job. If you could do the same justice to video on the economy of Bangladesh that would be amazing. Even Myanmar gets more coverage than Bangladesh. Thank for your time and for the awesome videos
Thank you for your great quality videos.
No mention of how much rice indo china produced under French colonial rule.
They produced so much rice that the french would deliberately starve the vietnamese.good job frogs.
Excellence video! "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" works great for the bees, termites and ants, not so great among, gasping, hairless, tribal monkeys.
Wrong. That will work when each man know how to control his demand and need from the society. That society need a very high basis of education and a very high level of production. That's not impossible. You and many others always think Marx is wrong about that but the fact is there are many people gained success in controlling their demand.
@@mrmakhno3030 You mean mold the prefect socialist man? Can't be done. Both Communism and Christianity tried to change human behavior, both failed and both left humanity pretty much in the same condition as when they found it.
@@buckwylde7965 it can.
@@mrmakhno3030
With brutal suppression of individual liberty and agency.
@@shauncameron8390 something need to be sacrificed.
Great detail, I really appreciate your descriptions.
I gotta say though the N is silent in Nguyễn
Vietnam is what North Korea could've been if they got rid of the Kim family and got closer to the west to pursue economic growth and provide for their people.
the death of Le Duan was equivalent to Stalin, in terms of dramatically changing a country.
Scary how a single leader could fuck a country, and countless people within it, over.
Opening up with the world would be a death sentence for Kim family. If North Korea opened up, the first thing North Koreans would do is to run Southward.
Vietnam's biggest business partner is China so I'm not sure what you mean by getting closer to the west
@@leezhieng he's not wrong though, VN biggest export market is the USA.
China is the 1st import market because its cheaper to import goods from your partner next door.
I do not think i have to explain the preference for Western culture as that is covered alot
They didn't need to get closer to the West but they needed to pass the necessary reforms when their 5 year plans failed in the 1970s and 80s and to not make Kim Jung Ill come to power like some communist monarch. It could be argued that Kim Jung Ill is responsible for the Kim family cult of personality he was in charge of the propaganda department under his father it is believed by some that it was his idea for the bombing in Myanmar in 1983 and the plane bombing in 1987
He put his people through a famine and didn't look to change after it.
Hi there, I'm using this video to write an extended essay. Do you have sources please?
It's shameful what the US did to Vietnam, especially refusing to help rebuild after the peace talks.
Hey they wanted collectivism then they should have gone to russia or China for help.
@@Joaquin546 Dude I am American, saying this is shameful is a fact. Just look at all the bombs the US dropped on Laos, millions of them didn't explode and continue to kill children there.
Your 'excuse' is absolutely pathetic and doesn't make any sense. It is simply a reflexive defense reaction. Study this conflict, and the modern day consequences from just people who still die from these bombs. If you can still defend refusing to help with the cleanup and reconstruction, even after having thought about it, then you are one of the most heartless and shameless Americans I have met in my 20 years here.
They already spent money on South Vietnam which provided the capitalist foundation for North Vietnam's doi moi reforms.
@@Joaquin546 They did. It did not help.
Why would you help your enemies?
12:11 so after rice production in 1976 was 11.8 million tons and in 1978 was 9.8 million tons, it rose to (69% of 21 million tons =) 14.3 million tons?
That's a substantial increase
It was still not efficient. It only became any good in the late '80s and early '90s when America was willing to open up.
13:00 USA-Chinese back Pol Pot regime.
I know that's fashionable to say, as it's fashionable to hare the United States, especially if you're from Asia. However, the US did not deliver aid to the Khmer Rouge, mostly because we spent quite a bit of time launching air strikes on their forces, but also because they spent most of their time killing their own people.
@@thomasfx3190US supported the Khmer Rouge regime and sanction Vietnam for it.
@@angkhoanguyen6114 Actually in point of fact, the United States did not support the Khmer Rough, but we did not stop China from supporting them either. Our diplomats certainly knew that Pol Pot was a murderous madman, but we weren't about to ally with the Vietnamese in 1976 and help the Vietnamese 'liberate' all of Southeast Asia to be communist client states after we spent 20 years fighting the VC from destroying democracy in South Vietnam and throwing everyone remotely connected to the SVN government in labor camps, and keeping 2000 of our POWs. Two million Vietnamese people died to unify Vietnam under communism. Except that, after starving the population after 1975 with collective farming, Vietnam isn't even communist today! So in review, no we didn't arm, fund or encourage Pol Pot, but because he was fighting the Vietnamese, we didn't want to see him go out of business too soon. So we are friends today, but we have unresolved issues.
@@thomasfx3190 US alongside China funded Khmer Rouge after the murderous regime overthrown by Vietnam until 1990. The CIA begs to differs.
@@thomasfx3190 Vietnam defeated France to protect our independence and sovereignty, 1954 was the temporary division until 1958 elections, but the US destroyed it and stole the South. Thus we Vietnamese had no choice but to fight again to regain our land in the name of freedom. Republic of Vietnam was never a democracy, but a puppet dictatorship existed from 1949 until it's downfall in 1975 when Vietnamese achieved true freedom and independence Vietnam by regaining Saigon and reunifiy Vietnam.
Any video on this channel regarding "eating the rich", communism, or the Soviet Union, generally blows up. Make a video about tech, get 50k views. Make a video about politics, get 2 million views.
marxists crying in the comments = music to my ears
they're not even addressing any of the points made the video lmao, just screeching about non existent blockades and chemical weapons????
@@sheryarahmed6331bro did you argued with yourself?😊
gotta say though that the Vietnamese fought hard to live in a unified socialist republic in which the communist party is the only legal one. I hope the Vietnamese people is happy with that result in the last 50 years.
Thank god Vietnam didn't turn into another North Korea.
i know this is really late but do you have any sources for the statistics because i couldnt find any
This is here-say basically. There's a lot of sources as to how Vietnam was improved by the communist (who are also it's population) - to this day. Of course a destructive invasion from dudes the world over that killed millions of civilians did mess up the country a bit.
gotta say though that the Vietnamese fought hard to live in a unified socialist republic in which the communist party is the only legal one. I hope the Vietnamese people is happy with that result in the last 50 years.
The US didn't pay reparations to North Vietnam because they violated the 1972 Treaty of Paris. Prior to 1975, the US did remove ordinance and mines from North Vietnam (mostly in Haiphong harbor) and pending the elections set for 1975 in South Vietnam, would begin payments to North Vietnam. BUT the NVA invaded South Vietnam before the elections thus negating the treaty and thereby releasing the US from it's financial obligations to North Vietnam. In other words, the North Vietnamese government cheated and the US said goodbye.
From a moral standpoint, the US should have kept paying for reconstruction over the destruction it caused and removing the bombs. And it's not like the US hasn't broken any treaty in its history.
The US first broke the 1954 Geneva Accords.
How Huawei became telecommunication giant
>20 years of war and decades of sanctions
>CoMmUnIsM dId It
Handy work of propaganda, mind you.
@@onceuponfewtime
He literally ignored the US bombings that paralyzed agrarian production and ignored that despite the loss of 76% of tractors, they still managed to increase grain output by more than half in 1975-1987
@@davidstrelec2000 haha I mention communist propaganda. Firstly nobody has enough bombs to cover farm land. It’s way too many cultivated land to destroy.
Secondly, the first force of current Vietnam communist party is literally propaganda and liberator team. The propaganda or advertising is the core of the party, so never mind if they charm people to feel pity.
My whole family are party members so I know. And I don’t believe a single complaint of them about any national affairs, tho I love them. But once party member gives any assertions about anything, it’s almost safe to tell that the opposite must hold truth xd
@@onceuponfewtime
"Nobody has enough bombs to cyber farm land"
Vietnam was the most heavily bombed country in history. More than 6.1 million tons of bombs were dropped, compared to 2.1 million tons in World War II. U.S. planes dumped 20 million gallons of herbicides to defoliate Viet Cong hiding places. The chemicals decimated 5 million acres of forest and 500,000 acres of farmland.
There was a decrease from 1958-1961 in North Vietnam. Way before the war began
Fun fact: Vietnam has only been developing for nearly 30 years
Bad definitions of who was rich lead to arbitrary punishments? Yeah, hate when the wrong people are executed for succeeding.
landlords deserved what they got
I think Land reform is a good idea.
@@olentangyriver1191 I think property rights are a better idea than government being able to arbitrarily take people’s hard work.
@@albeit1 I can see how you would say that, but when people are forever stuck in poverty and working their butts off, that's not exactly a just system either my friend..
@@olentangyriver1191 South Vietnam was corrupt and inflating its currency, effectively stealing from everyone holding it.
But the idea that the choice is between a corrupt economy and communism is a false one.
I believe North America (mostly Canada and US) needs an opt-in land reform program to allow people (families and communities) who want to become permaculture farmers to be given a watershed-shaped plot of farmland. While the united states isn't suffering from famine, the agriculture is currently quite inefficient in terms of land use and is environmentally unfriendly.
Given? You communists never learn
They did not starve because of Communism, they starved because of international sanctions. No one seems to realise how harsh these sanctions were, as the US tried to harm Vietnam as much as possible after their lost war. They were not able to get equipment and fertilizers for farming from the international market, they could not get knowledge and expertise from abroad, they could not get help except from the Soviet Union (which basically had the same issues).
This even more increased after the war with Cambodia, where Vietnam destroyed the Khmer Rouge, after repeated aggression - illegal border crossings and even massacres of villages - of the Cambodian military. Yet the US led a UN resolution to deem it as a war of aggression and then they supported the Khmer Rogue (who murdered 1/3 of their own population) with weapons, FOOD and medical supplies.
Yes, their reforms caused problems. But they are not the sole reason.
On your presentation of South Vietnams land reforms many things they did needed international markets. This access to international markets was denied to the Vietnamese after the war.
Communism didnt destroy Vietnam - it was the years of French oppression, destruction and exploitation - followed by 30 years of war - and the following denial of the international community to rebuild, modernise, heal and grow.
Also dont forget that Vietnam is now under the same rule, but rapidly growing, because they are not denied from the rest of the world anymore.
My girlfriend is from Hanoi, her parents grew up there (between Son Tay and Hanoi) and her family still lives there. I know from them, the english language internet and the german language internet.
They believed communism was the answer for everything, why would they care for any sanctions???
Not international market, Capitalist market. Dude, Vietnam couldn't produce rice for themselves, let alone selling things in international market.
You blaming the war for VCP's mismanagement.
@Bánh Tráng Trộn Yeah I compared. Vietnam embraced market economy and have friendly relationship with capitalist countries, that's why it is getting richer
North Korea, threatened to nuke other countries and embrace centrally-planned economy. That's why it is poor.
Okay bud, you should explain to me why North Korea is still poor despite having the CCP backing it. If you claim "becauze uff sAnCtIonZ durr" then please go live there. Socialism doesn't care about each other, they backstab you even if you are their "best friend".
The defeated great country like the US would not walk away without causing some more damages to its former enemy like Vietnam, so it obviously enforced its tough embargo laws against the war torn country Vietnam, and let’s not forget that US was behind Cambodian-vietnam war as well as China-Vietnam war in 1979… so what did we expect Vietnam economy would be after 1975??!
What's not mentioned here was the mass incarceration of hundreds of thousands of working age men in "re-education" camps after reunification. There was the also the "New Economic Zone" program which involved the mass seizure of capital and land of southerners, and redistributing much of it to party favorites and northern settlers who were brought south to "reform" the region and its culture. The country was so unlivable it caused the exodus of a million people by sea (also known as Boat People), of whom nearly half died. All this stuff is omitted or sugar coated in schools in Vietnam today, where the curriculum is heavily shaped by Party propaganda, but a lot of the older generation in the South still remembers how bad it was. To this day, you still can't openly criticize The Party and point out its mistakes. The economy might have improved a lot, but the same backwards way of thinking is still largely intact and shapes my home country today.
This is why, while I tolerate it for the fight against China, I cannot like Vietnam. They are still of a communist mould and it shows. The U.S. bungled China but cannot bother trying to get Vietnam to liberalise socially. It is so frustrating!
Hi, very interesting! Are you on nebula or curiosity stream or any of those alternative platform? thanks!