Alexa, you are so very empathetic. I love your reactions. I think the only reason they had to smush two such diametrically opposed storylines together was the constraints on the number of episodes they are restricted to. On the positive side, they did try to link the A and B plots and even Book's C plot (to a certain extent) thematically.
I feel Book is what Chakotay should have been. Spiritual, wise, emotional. Compassionate. And then when Chakotay learns of the loss of the Maquis, it hits him. He would have nothing to go home to. Just imagine struggling to get home to realize home isn't even there. Especially as a descendent of natives (though, might work better if he were an alien like Book, but now I'm spitballing...) ***** Whoever Tilly discovers she is, well. I'm with her.
Apparently we have a Star Trek Academy show coming although it'll likely be years from now. So ya, Mary Wiseman hasnt left the show but she will be back at some point in this season. We dont know anymore though! I also felt lukewarm about this episode as well, probably the weakest of S4 so far imo, although some other reviewers liked it so seems a bit divisive (in a good way). I agree that it felt like there were two A-plots competing with each other which I think didn't allow either to be as developed as much as they could. I felt the Cadet plot really didn't make it past cliché (although that shuttle looks great and so glad we finally saw a 32nd Century one). Meanwhile I felt that the politics plot wasn't as fleshed out as it could. We didn't get a chance to explore the vulcan purists and it felt like there was some divide on the Federation side but we didn't get any look at the depth of that (although I have decided that Saurian is a Federation Councilor). That said I don't think it was a bad episode, I just think it was fine. It really was mostly just moving pieces around (Ni'Var back in the Fed, Tilly off discovery). It was just fine. While Discovery is a show of constant improvement, this is a reminder that it still isn't perfect! But ya, hyped for next week!!! I love this show so much, lol
Maybe we will get a Tilly academy show! I agree that we needed more background on the politics, especially on the Vulcan side. It was a bit Honest Trailers “stares” rather than giving us proper context.
It's been a crazy few weeks which is why my thoughts have been absent but this is kinda a big one. Not only for the fairly by the numbers set up(crashed shuttles have practically been in every Trek since Galileo Seven in TOS) for the A plot. Not only for, as some have mentioned, the most Politics in Trek since the Golden age of the Berman era, or for Trek series finally taking time to discuss trauma and how Starfleet has seemingly mismanaged that trauma in past series, but because of the "problems " people seem to have with one particular plot point. And that is at the end of the episode. But first things I enjoyed the hell out of. 1 is the pairing of Tilly and Adira. Mary has remarkable chemistry with Sonequa, Wilson, Anthony and of course Foug, but with Blue it almost seems like a big sister(like Sonequa is to Mary, especially in the first season) mentoring a younger sibling who is exactly like them. To say nothing about them(Blue) somehow managing the balance of naiveté for someone so young and the world weariness of a being hundreds of years old(similar to Nicole and Terry before them). 2 the scenes on Ni'Var are not only GORGEOUS but also allow for interpersonal dynamics previously established (Burnham/Rilak, Saru/T'Rina) to grow naturally. As well as call out specific conflicts being resolved that made the scene possible (Earth/Romulan/Vulcan conflicts, the Occupation of Bajor, the Dominion War). 3 the story of the 2 cadets who are opposed during the shuttle trip(because one is Orion), only to find out that they both come from families who fought the Emerald Chain. And finally the scenes with Book and Culber. I love how Hugh is opening up to others and how that helps Book continue that process of acknowledging his survivor's guilt and moving on. Ik people hate to talk about it but this is something that I think Alex Kurtzman did well with Orci in the 09 film. Particularly with the character of Spock Prime. See when Kelvin Vulcan was destroyed Spock prime was over 150 years old. With a complete Starfleet career, a diplomatic career and over 120 years of trying to balance his human and Vulcan halves. He was experienced enough to understand the guilt of causing the destruction (feeling his own failure), the anger at Nero and the survivors guilt(again caused by Nero). He knew his younger self couldn't accept these feelings because he knew at that age he was still at war with himself. So when Kirk shows up in that cave on Delta Vega, Prime is able to fall back on his lifetime of experience and his Starfleet training to compartmentalize the grief(something his younger self and Nero fail to do). Book unfortunately doesn't have that. True T'Rina helped a bit last week with the meld(emotional transference is an effect). And Culber who has a similar experience with death as Prime(and the Starfleet training) is helping that, it is understandable why Book is still processing it. I completely empathize with Tilly in this episode as my own path has been, muddled for years. Always doing what others expected if me. So her acceptance of the job Dr Kovich(pocket that reveal for later) offered her, so she can find herself was......cathartic. And ik I'm far from unique in this aspect. Now we come to people's issue with this episode. Michael once again being the "saivor" Couple things about this, 1 from those sweeping shots of the Captains in Federation HQ, I haven't spotted a Vulcan or Romulan in the lot (as opposed to the TOS/TNG eras which all started with T'Pol in season 4). 2 by virtue of her education and adoptive family she is(as established in Unification part 3 last year) a citizen of Ni'Var. And by virtue of her uniform, she's also a Starfleet captain and Federation Citizen. Ergo, she's a perfect middle ground until more enter the academy. Who else holds thar qualification in the year 3289? So this is less a situation of the oft mentioned "saivor complex" and more a case of, to quote a trope we see often in Trek "we're the only one in the Quadrant "(which in this case is ACTUALLY accurate). All in all I loved this episode
@@alexachipman a friend of mine was similarly effected by her story. If you haven't seen it, Wil Weaton broke down on this week's Ready Room when he interviewed Mary
Anyway, speaking of being baffled, why didn't Book's people have a seed bank, or a scanned genetic database, or something on an asteroid somewhere? I mean, we're looking into emergency backup plans like this here on Earth.
I'm annoyed her send of they made her so useless. Last season she was the XO and sparing off with the big baddies. Here she was out of her depth organizing 3 cadets and Adira.
Not sure, I saw a quote from the showrunner: Paradise stated: “She is definitely still in the world,” Paradise assures. “I expect that we will see her again, for sure. We didn’t send her far, far away. We’re keeping her close.” This confirms that while Wiseman is not officially leaving the show, her role as Tilly may be reduced in the upcoming episodes.
Alexa, you are so very empathetic. I love your reactions. I think the only reason they had to smush two such diametrically opposed storylines together was the constraints on the number of episodes they are restricted to. On the positive side, they did try to link the A and B plots and even Book's C plot (to a certain extent) thematically.
I love how emotional you get over fictional characters!
I feel Book is what Chakotay should have been. Spiritual, wise, emotional. Compassionate. And then when Chakotay learns of the loss of the Maquis, it hits him. He would have nothing to go home to. Just imagine struggling to get home to realize home isn't even there. Especially as a descendent of natives (though, might work better if he were an alien like Book, but now I'm spitballing...)
*****
Whoever Tilly discovers she is, well. I'm with her.
I completely agree!
Apparently we have a Star Trek Academy show coming although it'll likely be years from now. So ya, Mary Wiseman hasnt left the show but she will be back at some point in this season. We dont know anymore though!
I also felt lukewarm about this episode as well, probably the weakest of S4 so far imo, although some other reviewers liked it so seems a bit divisive (in a good way). I agree that it felt like there were two A-plots competing with each other which I think didn't allow either to be as developed as much as they could. I felt the Cadet plot really didn't make it past cliché (although that shuttle looks great and so glad we finally saw a 32nd Century one). Meanwhile I felt that the politics plot wasn't as fleshed out as it could. We didn't get a chance to explore the vulcan purists and it felt like there was some divide on the Federation side but we didn't get any look at the depth of that (although I have decided that Saurian is a Federation Councilor). That said I don't think it was a bad episode, I just think it was fine. It really was mostly just moving pieces around (Ni'Var back in the Fed, Tilly off discovery). It was just fine. While Discovery is a show of constant improvement, this is a reminder that it still isn't perfect! But ya, hyped for next week!!! I love this show so much, lol
Maybe we will get a Tilly academy show! I agree that we needed more background on the politics, especially on the Vulcan side. It was a bit Honest Trailers “stares” rather than giving us proper context.
This episode reminds me of the Original Series, 'The Gallileo Seven', especially the bits with Tilly & the cadets.
I really enjoyed this episode. I think it is my favorite so far this sason, adding to federation lore is my jam.
It's been a crazy few weeks which is why my thoughts have been absent but this is kinda a big one. Not only for the fairly by the numbers set up(crashed shuttles have practically been in every Trek since Galileo Seven in TOS) for the A plot. Not only for, as some have mentioned, the most Politics in Trek since the Golden age of the Berman era, or for Trek series finally taking time to discuss trauma and how Starfleet has seemingly mismanaged that trauma in past series, but because of the "problems " people seem to have with one particular plot point. And that is at the end of the episode. But first things I enjoyed the hell out of. 1 is the pairing of Tilly and Adira. Mary has remarkable chemistry with Sonequa, Wilson, Anthony and of course Foug, but with Blue it almost seems like a big sister(like Sonequa is to Mary, especially in the first season) mentoring a younger sibling who is exactly like them. To say nothing about them(Blue) somehow managing the balance of naiveté for someone so young and the world weariness of a being hundreds of years old(similar to Nicole and Terry before them). 2 the scenes on Ni'Var are not only GORGEOUS but also allow for interpersonal dynamics previously established (Burnham/Rilak, Saru/T'Rina) to grow naturally. As well as call out specific conflicts being resolved that made the scene possible (Earth/Romulan/Vulcan conflicts, the Occupation of Bajor, the Dominion War). 3 the story of the 2 cadets who are opposed during the shuttle trip(because one is Orion), only to find out that they both come from families who fought the Emerald Chain. And finally the scenes with Book and Culber. I love how Hugh is opening up to others and how that helps Book continue that process of acknowledging his survivor's guilt and moving on. Ik people hate to talk about it but this is something that I think Alex Kurtzman did well with Orci in the 09 film. Particularly with the character of Spock Prime. See when Kelvin Vulcan was destroyed Spock prime was over 150 years old. With a complete Starfleet career, a diplomatic career and over 120 years of trying to balance his human and Vulcan halves. He was experienced enough to understand the guilt of causing the destruction (feeling his own failure), the anger at Nero and the survivors guilt(again caused by Nero). He knew his younger self couldn't accept these feelings because he knew at that age he was still at war with himself. So when Kirk shows up in that cave on Delta Vega, Prime is able to fall back on his lifetime of experience and his Starfleet training to compartmentalize the grief(something his younger self and Nero fail to do). Book unfortunately doesn't have that. True T'Rina helped a bit last week with the meld(emotional transference is an effect). And Culber who has a similar experience with death as Prime(and the Starfleet training) is helping that, it is understandable why Book is still processing it. I completely empathize with Tilly in this episode as my own path has been, muddled for years. Always doing what others expected if me. So her acceptance of the job Dr Kovich(pocket that reveal for later) offered her, so she can find herself was......cathartic. And ik I'm far from unique in this aspect. Now we come to people's issue with this episode. Michael once again being the "saivor" Couple things about this, 1 from those sweeping shots of the Captains in Federation HQ, I haven't spotted a Vulcan or Romulan in the lot (as opposed to the TOS/TNG eras which all started with T'Pol in season 4). 2 by virtue of her education and adoptive family she is(as established in Unification part 3 last year) a citizen of Ni'Var. And by virtue of her uniform, she's also a Starfleet captain and Federation Citizen. Ergo, she's a perfect middle ground until more enter the academy. Who else holds thar qualification in the year 3289? So this is less a situation of the oft mentioned "saivor complex" and more a case of, to quote a trope we see often in Trek "we're the only one in the Quadrant "(which in this case is ACTUALLY accurate). All in all I loved this episode
Thank you for sharing! Tilly’s story had a similar impact for me as well.
@@alexachipman a friend of mine was similarly effected by her story. If you haven't seen it, Wil Weaton broke down on this week's Ready Room when he interviewed Mary
Anyway, speaking of being baffled, why didn't Book's people have a seed bank, or a scanned genetic database, or something on an asteroid somewhere? I mean, we're looking into emergency backup plans like this here on Earth.
From the way he spoke I feel like they would have believed that it wouldn't be something you could back up and restart somewhere else
Please consider GOGOL. It's a Russian mini series based on the stories of Nikolai Gogol (1809-1852). It's only 9 episodes but highly addictive
😔 Tilly, is my favourite character and it feels weird to see her leave the U.S.S. DISCOVERY, to work, at Starfleet Academy.
I'm annoyed her send of they made her so useless. Last season she was the XO and sparing off with the big baddies. Here she was out of her depth organizing 3 cadets and Adira.
@@michaelcook7107Alexa did mention, that Tilly, could appear every now & then. And yes, it is strange to see Tilly leave.
(Eyebrow raise) People got deleted for being naughty in comments, and it wasn't me? What an odd and confusing sensation. (Scratches head, shrugs)
Aw, need a hug?
I want to know, did she quit or did they just get rid of her?
Not sure, I saw a quote from the showrunner: Paradise stated: “She is definitely still in the world,” Paradise assures. “I expect that we will see her again, for sure. We didn’t send her far, far away. We’re keeping her close.”
This confirms that while Wiseman is not officially leaving the show, her role as Tilly may be reduced in the upcoming episodes.