The Shining: Stanley Kubrick vs Stephen King | Production Tales From Hell
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- Опубликовано: 22 май 2024
- Thanks to WeTransfer for partnering with us on Production Tales From Hell. For a companion zine with exclusive movie art and more, including a bonus commentary track on The Shining from Chauncey, James, and Chelsea, visit deadmeat.wetransfer.com/
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Kubrick: I don't believe in Hell.
*Proceeds to create it.*
Ain’t that the truth?
Kubrick’s The Shining is both a masterpiece and a bastardization of a classic novel. A bastard-piece if you will.
Exactly where I stand on it! Both are great in my opinion, but for different reasons. I like that, 'Bastard-Piece', I'll definitely be stealing that term from you, haha.
Yep
Yup Kubrick certainly made a masterpiece from a crap sandwich. What king did later, after he tried to do better really showed that.
beter to have a good movie than a bad movie that pulls your book down
Forgive me for saying but the Novel, was mid. IN FACT! Most of Kings stories are mid.
The Shining is arguably one of the most iconic horror films ever made, however, this doesn’t excuse the way Kubrick treated Shelley Duvall behind scenes and during filming. Even though she did say she didn’t regret doing the film, you can tell by the end of it she was absolutely miserable.
Yeah if hell exists Kubrick is there for sure. Virtuoso director but atrocious human being.
I do like the movie but don't understand its "iconic" tag. It's good, but what puts it on the same level as The Exorcist or The Thing?
@@Baronnax It’s iconic because it has multiple famous scenes, and everyone knows what it is. You take one screenshot from that and your grandmother would know what it’s from.
@@BaronnaxIf you look at the definition of "iconic" and consider how widely known, referenced and talked about The Shining is, then it does fit the bill. It's also a visual masterpiece. ( I'm a huge fan of The Exorcist and The Thing ( Carpenter and Russell. I haven't seen the earlier version.) Both of which also deserve to be considered iconic movies in their own right.
@@Baronnaxthe shining is with them on mt rushmore
I saw Stephen King live when I was in college back in 1991. He was appearing at Syracuse University. He opened by reading from Needful Things which was about to be published. Then Mr. King took questions from the audience. I got to ask one of the first questions and I asked how he felt about his work being translated to film. I went on to say how there were some films he loved like "Misery" and then there are other movies like "The Shining" that he won't even comment on.
He replied, "Yeah, I'll comment on 'The Shining;" and then raised his middle finger in the air.
Honestly I like that Stephen King liked doctor sleep cause it's like a redemption for the shining
Ah Dude Misery is so fun to watch and I'm so glad he likes it too
Good ol’ Uncle Stevie. I hope he knows how much he means to all of us in his twilight years.
He's just mad that people prefer the movie
@@balabanasireti or he's mad that someone took his work and deliberately ignored him when he voiced issues with it. this why he ended up enjoying Doctor Sleep, and Doctor Sleep was a way better movie than The Shining. The Shining is a snooze fest.
I will never understand why Shelley's performance was criticized. She gives one of my favorite performances of all time and without her, I don't think this movie would be anywhere near as good as it is, she carries this movie.
Because her performance was real and believable ( maybe because she was genuinely suffering) and back then they usually liked theatrical performances more
It's because she does get really whiny and grating by the end. I have the same problem with Veronica Cartwright in Alien.
The character as played by her was annoying the crap out of me throughout the entire movie. Doesn't help that I read the book first, so I was sort of expecting some semblance of the book version of Wendy Torrance. Doesn't have to be exactly the same - at least something not so far off the mark. But now I see it wasn't Shelley Duvall's fault it turned out this way. That's on Kubrick. He's the one who deserves the Razzie.
i’d guess the same reasons people didn’t like heather’s performance in blair witch
@katiequeen2275 Heather was far better, and she wasn't being mentally abused during filming because Blair Witch had no crew present to abuse her.
"You're wasting everyone's time--" says the one who took 148 takes for one scene.
Anyway, still loving the series and am a fan!
shelley duvall gave the performance of a lifetime and set a great standard for the final girl. she has my heart forever ♥
I always found her annoying (and I completely agree with King that her character is a gigantic downgrade from the book, where she actually did stuff), but she deserves a pass because of what she went through.
Duval just has the ability to make all her characters charming, I can't hate Wendy. Although the movie would be so much better if we had competent Wendy from the book.
@@coolnerdlll6053 Stanley made her act. Poor girl.
Is it weird I don't really consider it a performance? She was basically mistreated against her will, we just saw what happened when the camera was rolling.
Maybe I'm overanalyzing it, I just don't think it's fair to call it a performance since she never agreed to Kubrick's methods to make her better on camera.
@@jongon0848 that’s something to think about. I feel so bad for her
I think Robin Williams as Jack Torrence would’ve been AMAZING! I agree that Jack Nicholson is automatically creepy like When I watched this movie for the first time the dad never felt like a “normal guy” lolol
yes, in their drive up to the Overlook for the first time Jack already acted like he wanted to kill them 😆
Robin Williams has that nice kind look to him,you would find it hard to believe that he's a psycho maniac..While Nicholson had that crazy look to him from the first minute.
I think Robin Williams performance in the movie One Hour Photo was insanely good. So I could definitely see him as Jack, and it would be interesting to see tbh. But Nicholson killed that role.
@@sarahjk1My friend and I have always said this, Jack was definitely already fed up before they even got there, lol.
That's honestly one of my biggest issues with the movie! There really is no descent into being creepy/madness with Jack Nicholson
Thank you Chauncey for saying that the abuse isn't justifiable for 'the art."
"I always thought that the real difference between my take on it, and Stanley Kubrick's take on it, was this: In my novel, the hotel burns; in Kubrick's movie, the hotel freezes. It's the difference between warmth and cold."
*-Stephen King*
Gotta give props to the only person who could make King not hate the Shining movie! The man, the myth, the legend Mike Flanagan! 🙌
Nice Try, Mike. We know it’s you.
This might be sacrilegious to say here, but out of the two movies, I like Doctor Sleep more than The Shining 😁
@@beckieleung4814 That's tough because Doctor Sleep is a completely different movie.
I give it to Steven King 👑. He was really on Shelly's side and how he was upset about the Kubrick's abusive and bullying .it was disgusting...but yet she still pushed thru when most would quit. I give Shelly her flowers because she gave one hell of a performance unmatched by most actress's ❤ Kubrick said he has no sympathy for Shelly but with out her The Shinning wouldn't be an ICONIC movie today...
I am loving this series, Chauncey fits so well in the Dead Meat style while bringing her own uniqueness
It feels like a true crime series for horror movies
I had to stop because of the vocal fry. The video was good and the presentation as well but I can't listen to that :(
@@schw3inehund-official Vocal fry?
@ForrestFox626 it has to do with vocal pitch
@@schw3inehund-officialShe can't help her voice. Though I don't hear any fry.
I think that every Kubrick movie from Spartacus to his last one can be in this series.
Only the horror movies
@@Notsussybaka900 Production Tales From Hell is a perfect way to describe production of many of Kubrick's movies.
PS. I love the Watchmen photo.
@@nachosniewolnosci3147 Yep
The Shining was Kubricks only horror film
@@axelnilsson5124 2001 is scarier though
james and zoran voicing king and kubrick is just one of the small things that make my day
They did a great job!
Kubrick wanted Wendy to be submissive and beaten down while King wrote her to be independent and fierce.
Kubrick was married three times and King has been married once and still is.
I think this says a ton about how awful Kubrick was to women and likely how badly Duvall was treated
Same, and Jack still being an alcoholic instead of sober, at least more recently, and going through so much more before being influenced by the evil.
Totally agree on the weak and abused Wendy being an unnecessary and negative change from the novel.
Wendy from the book wouldn’t take the abuse Wendy from the movie took from Jack. He had to make her a sobbing weak mess.
if shelly was independent why would she still be with jack then. when jack hurt danny i would of taken danny away from jack there and then
Calm down. No need to act like a psychiatrist 😂
@@vtxgenie1I disagree
Whoa holy production quality!!
Here’s to James turning dead meat etc into a FRANCHISE!!!!!
Stanley Kubrick was a lot like Marlon Brando. They both had a massive and respectable influence on their respective fields in Hollywood, but they were also both tyrannical egomaniacs that were seven circles of hell to work with and I feel absolutely no remorse for either of them being dead. That might sound harsh, but so were they.
Unfortunately, it's because of their talent that they got away with all the shit they did
I absolutely agree with you! Hollywood is a disgusting place! It amazes me that no one did anything to help Shelly Duval! That movie ruined her career and life!
@@jenniferkovalick2959 If you watch her in Popeye, the performances are night and day. She looks so much happier there
That’s just unhinged 😂
Same I respect the craft but the way they got to it…
This is the first episode I'm catching and I'm blown away by the production quality. Well done team.
I like that you guys are choosing well know movies and cult classic/lesser known films, same of Kill Count. I love finding out new things about the popular films and their productions and yet also learning about new films all together. This series is awesome and really well done! And Chauncey is a great host!
Yep
She is on point in this video
I will be the first to admit Kubrick's Shining never got my attention. When I read how different Jack and Wendy were in the book, and I actually prefer Hallorann surviving the story, I saw why, as I'm someone who loves strong yet balanced characters.
I would have loved to see a more human Jack and a stronger Wendy on screen. Good thing King at least tried with the TV miniseries.
Hope you have seen Dr. Sleep. Flannigan does a superior job in the authenticity when it comes to his characters, the amazing hand injuries and the ability to create a cohesive storyline from to completely opposing adaptations was a stroke of genius.
I disagree
@@mom.left.me.at.michaels9951 It was alright
This felt like something you'd see on discovery/disney with the incredible production value. Great job everyone!
I will say this. I enjoy the new show but I feel like we need longer versions or multipleparts? It has amazing presentation and I'm always against new hosts on RUclips channels but I genuinely admire the work energy and attitude, thank you for the great content. If the worst thing that I can say is it needs to be longer than you're doing something right.
This
So crazy to be a King's reader, and knowing how important the Shining is for the whole dark tower universe
I've always held a fondness for the 1997 mini-series - you can tell it was done with meticulous care and appreciation for King's novel.
Also, they don't kill the one Black character in the entire thing... so *in my best James A. Janisse voice* that was nice.
The 1997 version is my fav as well. I think it’s also interesting how in the book Scatman’s character wasn’t supposed to die, but Kubrick made the choice to kill him in the film…
so great to see where dead meat is now. Ill never forget James' Friday the 13th Kill Counts helping me get over my fear of the dark years ago.
Most of us know the troubles of this film.. but I'm glad Dead Meat is "Shining" a comprehensive, unbiased light on it. Polarizing is an understatement with this one, folks.
Don't think unbiased is apt here. But art criticism can't really be objective so IMO it's a good thing it's biased.
@@kaingates the bias that I'm speaking of is Kubrick v. King.
Sounded pretty biased against Kubrick from start to finish
They spread the lie that Kubrick was abusive to duval. Just because it's incredibly common misinfo doesn't make it correct. I love dead meat but the lack of proper research on the topic was a little disappointing.
It’s definitely insane how much of the behind the scenes material for The Shining shed a light on such a notoriously difficult director with such an iconic legacy. Coming from a fan of Kubrick’s filmography as a whole, even I’ll admit that his dreaded perfectionism could be excessive to the point of being a test of endurance within itself. Even those who worked on his films had expressed concerns working with him before accepting parts in his films, having to ask the question, “Is the physical and emotional exhaustion worth it to work with one of the best?” It’s clear going off that alone that his reputation as a brutal taskmaster preceded him.
Ultimately I’m happy y’all at Dead Meat did this episode talking about the woes that went into making such an iconic film. Kubrick’s The Shining might’ve failed as an adaptation in the broad sense of things, but it’s still a great horror film nonetheless. I also tip my hat to the actors who had to fight tooth and nail to see it thru under Kubrick’s iron fisted direction, especially Shelley DuVall and Scatman Crothers as the major ones who got pushed the furthest they had ever been pushed before as performers.
I'm loving this show so much more than even I thought I was going to. Great work to Chauncey and the Dead Meat crew!
That scene that shows he hasn’t been writing this whole time really strikes writers every writer understands this
Chauncey is such a compelling host! Love her work on the series so far!
I am constantly blown away by your video quality.. this seriously feels like a TV series you'd watch on TV. So well done.
Even if these videos don’t get the same amount of love as the kill counts do, just know that we still appreciate and enjoy them!
I’m really enjoying this series, it’s helping me learn more things about these movies that I didn’t know along with things I did
The production effort of this video. Y’all are outdoing yourselves & I am here for it!!
Yay! So good! These episodes need to be a little longer! I’m always left wanting more.
Why did this video feel like the preamble to a good documentary instead of an actual finished work by itself?
People should look more into Shelly's own words around the production. Dr. Phil and other people exploited Shelly in her old age, and it really paints her experience on The Shining as something that broke her mentally. But that's not the case. She has repeatedly said that she had a great time, and that she learned more and pushed herself as an actor more on the set than any other film she's done. Obviously Kubrick was a jerk at times, but he didn't ruin Shelly's life. Not defending him... just asking that people listen to Shelly's own words rather than relying on heresay.
I highly recommend downloading those commentary tracks. They’ve been fun to listen along to
Bro, Scatman had to do like 10 hours of takes for like 10 minutes of screentime 😭
He was a trooper! And definitely my hero of the film
@@ChaunceyKRobinson him and sheli made this film good
I heard he was a pretty chill and fun dude (I mean he played music for his other cast members when he was doing transformers during the waiting times), so hearing that Kubrick tormented the dude to the point of making him cry is certainly something….
Also making him take scenes where he falls down so many times at that age is just disgusting.
Love the new content. the production is crisp. Love you guys!
Shelly Duvall has said in recent years that The Shining was not any kind of contributor to the decline of her mental health or career. She worked for many years after the shining on her fairytale show.
That does really change anything. It’s good, and I’m glad she continued her career since she’s a brilliant actress, but it doesn’t really change anything.
@@bluebay1031 Yeah, Stanley was NOT nice to Shelley at all! :-( Which is so weird, because he could really be a genuinely-nice person, & was a good guy overall, in spite of his...hmm, how would I put it...difficulties.
This is a great entry into a new series. Will def be continuing. Great job, Chauncey!! ❤❤
Absolutely loving this series so far!!! Already looking forward to every episode ❤️
I am absolutely adoring this series as a fun fact gorlie.
I am also SO HAPPY that someone is out here saying they dislike Kubrick's "adaptation" of The Shining. It felt like such a mean spirited film both to the source material and to Shelley.
I am on an even rarer team though in that...I actually really enjoyed the mini series.
Can’t wait to see more of this series! Great host and super interesting info, big W for Dead Meat
I love this series and I'm so excited with the direction of content on Dead Meat - We always loved James and Chelsea but, with Zoran and now Chauncey, the expansion of the dead meat universe is amazing!
I love these videos Chauncey!! Keep it up!!
i’ve been loving this series!! Chauncey is amazing, i only knew her from her episodes on the podcast before this but i’m a huge fan
Never seen this series or host on the channel. More production tales from hell and more Chauncey please!
really enjoying this series! One of my favorite parts about the kill counts are learning about the production of horror movies, so this has been right up my alley!!
Love this series, please keep blessing us with more great content guys. Much love✨️
Please never stop making these I love em!
I can’t get over how well the opening is done! Looooove watching these!🥰🥰🥰🥰
Starting to look forward to these nearly as much as the kill counts. Great presentation and very informative and thorough videos.
PTFH is my new favorite part of Dead Meat (besides the podcast!)! They are cozy watches and I love learning new BTS about what went into and came out of these iconic films.
idk about yall, but i absolutely love the intro for this series. it really goes to show just how far Dead Meat has come in terms of quality and production
I am loving this show. It really feels like something I'd catch on TV growing up - it's sooooo well-produced!
Thank you!
Loved it! I need more of those! Great job dead meat!
I like this format soo much, are lesser known movies also planned in the future?
And next episode of production tales from hell… THE WIZARD OF OZ HELL YEEEEEE lol
That’s a joke right? Because that movie isn’t really a horror movie.
@@rodian_skypyratz6181 Yeah, it's a joke. The next episode is The Amityville Horror. But do read up on the production hell that was The Wizard of Oz if you're interested. If this channel wasn't strictly a horror channel, that movie would have gotten an episode on this show.
@@rodian_skypyratz6181 it kinda is
Absolutely love this series ! Amazing host, intro, production, all of it 🤩🤩
Thank you! Thanks for watching!
One of my favorite horror movies ever, watched it when I was like 13 and my dad circumvented mom (also not the first of a bunch of movies, like Alien and Blade Runner) to tell me I was old enough. But told me not to tell her.
The Shinning! In the words of Groundskeeper Willie!
Another great episode! It always hurts to hear what Duvall went through during the making of this movie
Kubrick was an asshole to Shelley Duvall, but it always bothers me to see people on Twitter saying that Shelley Duvall never recovered professionally after "The Shining", and with all the HUGE respect I have for Dead Meat and the people who made this video, I confess I was a little disappointed to see that this video didn't do much to erase this false narrative... After "The Shining", Duvall created and starred in "Faerie Tale Theatre", a wonderful TV series that ran from 1982 until 1987 in which she worked with some of the biggest names in Hollywood, and then in 1992 she received two Emmy nominations for "Tall Tales & Legends" and "Shelley Duvall's Bedtime Stories." But I suppose maybe they felt that wasn't relevant to the video itself, which focuses on the troubled production of "The Shining."
Still, good video and a good series so far. And I recommend "Fairie Tale Theater", several episodes have horror elements.
Tbh, no one really remembers those shows, otherwise they wouldn't say her career declined. If the shows someone worked on later hardly made a splash on the cultural memory, people tend to consider the artist's career to be in decline.
all 3 episodes so far have been amazing i know this series going to be a channel classic
Clicked this so fast, I always love hearing about the shining and its production.
I can't help but laugh at the dramatic tone change going into the sponsor bit
loving this series so far! its so sleek and professional that it feels tv-caliber, it reminds me of the halloween specials i used to watch on tv as a kid :)
Waited all week for this!! 😍
These videos are amazing! Thank you so much Chauncey, Chelsea and James!
These are phenomenal videos for a Sunday morning!!
This new show needs to get more views. I’m really enjoying it! Keep it up!
these are so good i love them!
THANK YOU! Someone said it, finally. The Hell that Duvall and Crothers went through wasn't worth a 4/10 movie that flung so much hate at one of the only King stories I really like. The Shining duology and Pet Cemetery are the only ones I liked, personally, the other ones were okay, and got dragged down by how famous he was, and how critical I get of famed writers. I never liked The Shining movie because of all of this, but then Doctor Sleep came out, and is one of my favorite horror movies ever.
Agreed! First off, while watching the movie, *at no point* do I feel that Nicholsons Jack was remotely sympathetic, or that he even liked his family. That was a big part of the story and the movie completely disregarded it. He barely tolerated them and his resentment was SO obvious. It ended up being a story about a self important jerk dragging his wife and son to a remote hotel. (Stg he only brought Wendy bc he could have her do his job while he wrote) He then becomes progressively more irritable until he snaps.
The end.
You forget saying "I think" in that score mate. Because you are %100 in the minority here. The movie didn't became iconic in cinema history for no reason.
@@erkantiryaki5542it's iconic because of cinematography and techniques. A huge feat I agree but something only boring film-nerds care about. The story, the acting (except the important shots) and the plot is really sub par. Or let me ask you this: does anyone really care what happened to Danny after the movie? He's the protagonist so it's a pretty important question. I think the answer is no and it's a pretty bad narrative sense to come to that conclusion.
And it's not like Kubrick makes bad movies: HAL is amazing and super interesting
The blood in the elevator 😌✊
Hello
That's odd. Usually the blood gets off on the second floor.
Hi James, I havent been to this channel for a while so just wanna catch up by saying my deepest condolences on your dads passing and a big congratulations on your marriage! Wishing you all the happiness
Loving these episodes!!
I repeat this to myself anytime I watch the movie
“Love the art, not the artist”
i love production tales from hell, please continue to make more!! the host is great
I’ve always been a firm believer that Kubrick’s adaptation is one of the greatest horror movies ever made, but also one of the worst Stephen King adaptations ever made. Right up there with Steven Spielberg’s adaptation of Jurassic Park. Monumentally amazing movie, dumpster fire of an adaptation.
For real, i need a a loyal adaptation of Michael Crichtons book before I die.
@@FFF_FilmsforFun I refuse to let people believe that Gennero was the sniveling vampire the movie portrayed him as. That man was a damned hero and the true protector of Tim and Lex.
Got there in 2 min. Such an iconic movie that I don’t want to miss it
We need more of you . Your great
I find it interesting that the more faithful adaptation later made was considered a failure compared to Kubrick's version which is remembered as a horror icon
Though faithfulness to the book wasn't the problem with the TV miniseries. The movie had superior special effects and cinematography - its lack of faithfulness to the source material isn't the part that was better. 😅
What a succinct video. It felt so full for
Thank you!
@@ChaunceyKRobinson argh! Be still my little parasocial heart :) I’m really enjoying this series, and I enjoy your presentation style :)
Really loving this series so far, Chauncey you are doing an incredible job!
I don't say this to justify what Kubrick did to Shelley Duvall, but to give her some of the praise she missed out on during the initial reviews of the film; Shelley's performance is hands-down the best performance in the movie. She starts from a place of extreme vulnerability, but through that vulnerability accesses a believable strength in the face of fear that keeps her character and character's son alive. The movie isn't scary or emotionally impactful without her phenomenal performance.
I disagree. Outside of locking Jack in the freezer and finding Danny outside the maze, she does absolutely nothing throughout the movie.
@@coolnerdlll6053 And I disagree with your disagreement. ^_^ Hence agreeing with OP. :-)
The movie was great by itself. but as an adaptation of the book, nah. It took me many years until i picked up the book because I just didn't care much for the film. The book is one of my favorite King novels, especially the audiobook narrated by Campbell Scott. Scott did excellent narrating that book.
Totally agree. I actually listened to it recently. I realized very quickly that the movie was basically a different story altogether. Sadly, it ruined what i thought was a good horror movie. I tried watching it again and couldn't finish it. It just felt like a crappy remake from a good story. They really messed up the Torrence family, for instance. Which really ruined the vibe for me.
Oh 100% I also listened to the audiobook narrated by Campbell Scott and loved every second of it. I had such a hard time coming to grips with how much the movie left out once I finally listened to the book, because The Shining was my first horror movie and has a special place in my heart. I try to think of it as Stanley Kubrick rewriting the book in his own way.
Absolutely loving this series!!
This was awesome looking forward too more
Absolutely love the new series!!! She's an excellent host and I can't wait to see more of her videos!
A classic
And I mean the "Here's Jhonny" Line is just iconic!
I"m so glad you put a spotlight on this film! Many people hold it up as a masterpiece of cinema but overlook the fact that no actor should feel afraid while filming. Keep up the great work!
The shining was the first ever horror movie I saw and i absolutely love it. I credit it for my love of horror.
Again, Huge fan of this series. This is broadcast quality and the host is perfect!
Thank you!
The older I get the more I realize I don't care for this movie as much as I once did. The performances all either wrong or flat out bad, and it being made by people who didn't think the book was even good just took away everything great about the book. Combine that with the hideous abuse that went unpunished, and I'm good on it I think.
I am loving this new Dead Meat series. Also I love that shirt.
I just watched The Shining for the first time 2 days ago (on my birthday haha) so this is perfect timing!
My birthday was three days ago. Small world.
Love these