I bought an old wooden boat from a towing company just for the inboard engine. I knew the people and they laughed about they used to pee in it. I got over involved and fixed it up so it would float. Then I thought about titling it. Boat had not been licensed in over 15 years. The state was kind enough to give me the prior owners name and county he lived in. They would never do that today. I went to the county board of health to see if someone had died with that name, and they had. But, he was a junior and too young to have owned the boat at that age. Get this, 23 years old, died by being run over by a cement truck in the middle of the road with a blood alcohol content of .21. I found the father and he said he traded the boat to fix some damage on his pickup, but the guy never finished the job. I said I'll give you $100 for the title and you can get that bumper. I brought paperwork to start requesting a new title. Instead, he pulled out his wallet and produced the title. And his sister who lived next door was a notary. Add a dog and you got a country song.
I knew this was going to be a bill of sale vs title thing. I have used vermont for this, but I wouldnt call the way I used it a loophole. My motorcycle was 40 years old. It was sold a couple of times with title. The person who owned the last title died 25 years prior to my purchasing it. It was sold a few years after his death when it stopped working. It changed hands like 10 times, all from bill of sale, all from people who wanted a project bike and didnt finish it. I put a year of labor, time, and parts into the bike. Got it up and running. Then my state made it exceptionally hard to get a title. Everybody who had previously owned the title was dead and nobody had registered it after purchasing through bill of sale. There was literally no way to contact anybody who had ever legally owned the bike. Vermont let me register it with a bill of sale and a VIN check. That registration allowed me to get a title. That title allowed a 40 year old motorcycle to get back on the road, and allowed me to eventually sell it WITH title, ensuring that the bike will remain able to be driven for years to come.
Yeah, I think that's kinda Steve's point. One person's legit solution for an understandable situation is another person's loophole to get away with something shady. Thus, 'This is why we can't have nice things.' :)
That's how I used it as well. Old CB750 that too many people tried to fix, last titled owner long gone. Trail bikes that nobody ever bothered to register. Vermont was the way to get it up to date.
@@CommieHunter7 Do you mean a CB75 ? A 750 would be too big to be a Trail Bike. A friend of mine had a Honda SL 75, so I am pretty familiar with those early to mid 70's bikes.
In IL and I had to do the bonded title for a motorcycle I found by a dumpster. It took 300 days and a LOT of paperwork to prove that I tried to reach out to the owner. The title wasn't considered "clean" for three years. After that, the bond expires and the previous owner has not grounds to re-claim the vehicle. I was able to sell the bike right after getting the title, and the new owner was able to get IL plates.
Honestly I don't see an issue with that at all. It should be hard to title and sell a vehicle that someone found because who knows why you were able to find it by a dumpster.
I had something similar in IN, even with a valid out of state title, but it had been "jumped" (legally) about 6 times by a bunch of buy-here-pay-here dealers and never re-titled without a lien. It took about 9 months, all said and done. Good times... I have a parts car without a title that is going to be fun to get rid of. I'll probably have to cut it up and throw it in the actual trash in little pieces. 🤣
I imported a trailer from BC to California and based on a bureaucratic pissing match between DMV staff I learned you can do a bonded title, at least for trailers, here. The process was needlessly convoluted and costly and nobody in my local DMV office could deal with it so I got to do it by mail/phone/voicemail with Sacramento. Had I known I would have used this VT Loophole in a heartbeat.
I was actually advised by a CA DMV clerk to license my vintage trailer out of state. I bought the thing back in 1990 and my wife died a few weeks later. Stashed it at the home of my father's friend. Moved back to Northern California and reclaimed it decades later. Mainly because the family insisted I do so. The years haven't been kind to it. However, I do have a valid Pink slip (one of the ones which actually ARE pink!) and they now want six hundred dollars to transfer the trailer. The Clerk suggested I register it in another, more sympathetic, state, then bring it back to California. I'm looking into that.
@@ronaldsmith6829 Don't take her advice. Even if it is registered in another state as soon as you bring it back to CA they will still get you for the back fees. CA knows people do this and they do not let you off the hook. For example. I sold a 1975 Mercury Montego Colony park to a guy in Las Vegas. It had had a Nevada title for years. I sold it to him with my Oregon dealers license and with an Oregon temporary registration awaiting the new title. He drove it in to CA and was stopped. They impounded the car because it had outstanding fees on the old CA plates from years back. They didn't care about the Nevada title or the new Oregon registration.
@@mexicanspec - Except that the vehicle itself can't have "fees". Only the owner (or possibly driver). They were trying extortion because they couldn't find the original owner. 'Your vehicle owes $700 in taxes' doesn't make any sense at all.
@@tbelding Not true at all. The plates stay with the vehicles in California and the fees stay with the car. If you ever want to register that car in California again, you have to pay all back fees, no matter who the previous owner was. California will even go so far as to attach your wages so they get paid for back registrations.
I know of people who used VT loophole to "Scrub" a branded title. They would take a car with a rebuilt or salvage title and register it through VT in order to sell it with a clean title. That's another use of that loophole.
@@J.erem.y Not if someone was using this for the proper reasons and registering a vehicle under their 15 year rule. After 15 years old they didn't issue titles. So I'm not sure where your info is from. The entire loophole only worked bc vermont would issue a 'transferable registration' which you would then use to secure a title in whatever state you're in. If your state turned a branded title into a clean one the onus is on your state, not vermont. Again, older than 15 years, they didnt take a title OR issue one. Had they been issuing actual titles, this loophole most likely wouldn't have been feasible, due to them not requiring one in the first place. Just my 0.02 cents from having done it multiple times myself.
I am so glad I got the title recently for my 56 VW vert after owning it for 35 years, as I am finally getting around to restore it. Lost the original title and had never put it in my name, thanks Vermont. I also titled a 4 door Russian jeep I had in the 80s but that was done through Georgia.
I did the bonded title thing in 2013 in TX on a Peterbilt truck my husband had bought to resell. It was a hobby of his. He seldom changed the titles on trucks or vehicles he bought as projects. He died unexpectedly with one of these projects in progress. There was a buyer who'd been negotiating price with him, so when we finally made a deal 2 yrs later I had to go the bonded title route. It was great for me because at that time truck prices were unhinged and every delay, or when he walked away from negotiations gave me a chance to raise the price $5K. It helps if you're not desperate for cash. He eventually paid about $15K over what I initially asked for the 2005 Peterbilt.
Decades ago, Fulton County in upstate New York issued license plates with the format FC then a number. So you had a license plate with a plate number like FC4887. At the same time, foreign consul registered cars in New York had the same format, with an FC then a number. Diplomatic immunity usually protects cars from parking tickets. So cars with FC plates avoided parking tickets in New York City, especially in Manhattan, home of the United Nations. People would register their cars in Fulton County just for their plate numbers starting with FC. Until the U.S. State Department got the diplomats special diplomat plates with a multi-color scheme different from NYS DMV regular license plates.
@@fionam3554 In 1984, the U.S. Department of State took over issuance of diplomatic auto license plates. On the Internet, someone five years ago was offering for sale a New York plate with the number 941-FC, 2-75. Pumpkin colored like all NYS license plates back then. From license plates for sale on eBay, Florida and Arizona issued he plates with the words "FOREIGN CONSUL" clearly shown. Until 1984.
It used to be it was easier to claim residence in SD, too. I think you could just have a PO box at one point in time. I could be wrong. SD has no income tax.
My buddy found a mint Shelby Daytona in a junkyard right after it was put out, so he bought it, and brought it home and got a Vermont title. I think he replaced the oil pan, but epoxied the gas tank - the yard just punches holes to drain fluids... It didn't need much other work, and was soon being taken to car shows!!!! Apparently, the Daytona had been seized by the Indiana state police, and no one bought it at their auction, so it ended up being sold as scrap.
Thank you so much for mentioning the bonded title law in Michigan and I guess a few other states. I have restored several "barn-find" motorcycles and had to drive illegally with the plate from a different bike, hoping not to get caught. I turned down several old vehicles because of the title problem (definitely derelict vehicles not stolen) and will try for a bonded title in a state that allows this if another opportunity arises. There should be a way (like the bonded title) for people to restore old vehicles or boats that have been separated from their paperwork, without opening the door to theft.
But because it can be used by thieves, it will be. There are a couple of southern states that make is sooo easy to get a title for a derelict/stolen machine that some small companies do that for you. Yikes.
@@UncleKennysPlace instead of making yet new rules and policies, just enforce the actual crime of theft. And as a punishment, a judge could make a car thief no longer able to title ANYTHING as a punishment.
@@UncleKennysPlace prove a bill of sale form the property owner where it sits, AND that it was abandoned or derelict for ages. problem solved. that would prevent people from just titling vehicles that they stole yesterday that were manufactured that same year. there's ways to make it such that it's not exploited. MORE OVER.... why even have titles for vehicles anyway... we can getaway with bills of sale and other validations... you don't need a title to prove something is yours.
Interesting about the school bus to RV conversion. In Ohio, you download an affidavit form attesting that the commercial vehicle has been transformed into an RV having these 4 requirements: A means of cooking, a place to sit and eat, refrigeration, and a place to sleep. Fill out the form, have your signature notarized, head to the Clerk of Courts and leave with a passenger vehicle motor home title. No longer need a CDL, no longer need expensive commercial vehicle insurance.
I almost used VT for this! There were even companies that would handle it all for me, using Vermont to give me a clean title in my preferred state for a hefty fee. My friend and I bought two old dirt bikes (a 1987, 1990) that had never been titled (Ohio started titling OHVs in 1999). In order to ride in national forests, bikes had to be registered (requires a title in OH) and insured. The Ohio title agency no longer has a form to register untitled/older dirt bikes, unless it was purchased out of state. Thank goodness, one county sheriff here in Ohio was willing to check the VINs for any prior registration, fill out the out of state form and the title agency accepted our notarized BOS. Many counties did not even know how to do it. I am trying to pay some tax and be 100% legal! There should be a way. Thanks for the info in your videos!
Indeed, it should be just as easy to be law abiding as to be law breaking. When it's not they just encourage more crime. Bureaucracy is a detriment to living. Makes me wonder what hoops you have to jump through to register a vehicle you build from scratch in your garage, because that's something I'd like to do.
@@anon_y_mousse While we are slowly being consumed by tax happy socialists that want to outlaw everything based on ignorance and fear; Washington still allows titling custom vehicles and trailers after passing state patrol inspection. (Inspection is partly safety equipment, lights bumpers etc, and partly looking for major parts with stolen or altered VINs.) Of course the dept of licensing will charge yet an extra fee if you want lube when it comes to pay for plates and tabs.
@@anon_y_mousse Oh and ironicaly Cali has pretty loose requirements for custom vehicles.(or did 20 years ago) I've seen motorized couches and bar-stools on go-kart frames get CA plates. (They hadall the standard car lights. ) Edit add: Though there may have been some technical loophole like the couch or the running gear was a 1964, I recall something about a cutoff year and it was about when Cali started its emissions requirements in the late 60s.
@@TheDuckofDoom. I'm not sure why that's ironic, and neither me or @jalex19100 mentioned California, but I would love to see a couch driving down the highway with actual license plates on it. Although, I have doubts that they'd license something like that today, unless maybe you made it electric, then it'd be licensed even if it failed every test except the obvious emissions.
@@anon_y_mousse It's ironic because CA has had a long reputation for being very difficult when it comes to post emmissions vehicles that weren't specifically produced for CA with all the corporate testing requirements. I saw the couch driving around city streets not an open highway. (specifically a loveseat, for width reasons) Same with the bar stool kart.
I bought a trailer from a friend that had lived in Oklahoma at the time he bought it and they didn't title trailers there. Went to my state's DMV to get it titled and registered and they wouldn't do it despite having the bill of sale. They wouldn't budge even when we showed them the Oklahoma DMV information about them not doing trailer titles. Luckily he had bought it from a builder/dealer near where we live and we were able to go down to the office with the bill of sale and original paperwork provided from my friend, and after matching everything up to their records they issued us a new "original" build certificate certifying that we were the original owners of a brand "new" 10 year old trailer that the DMV was then perfectly willing to sign off on and issue us a new title and registration for. In the long run I'm glad to have gotten it taken care of the right way, but had we known about this loophole back then I might have said "screw it" and just gotten a plate for it from Vermont.
I had the same issue with a trailer I bought from a guy from Florida. Apparently people use Florida similar to Vermont in some way. So my state DMV was telling me they were suspicious that it could be stolen. They guy gave me the “certificate of origin” from the builder, the receipt from Lowes where he bought it, Florida registration records and even the owners manual. I finally called a guy at my central DMV where they did the actual processing. I had found the phone number for that office while searching all over the DMV website for info. The guy was surprised I called. Nobody ever called that number. He told me to fill out a certain form and if my local office gave me trouble to have them call him. The form had a space for a sworn affidavit by the original seller, Lowes. So I was supposed to have a representative from a Lowes store 2,000 miles away sign the form. The form I turned in was signed by the “Lowes General Manager”, the box PRINT NAME read “Gianna Flugenplat” Weird thing is if you looked close at her messy signature it sure looked like it said “Gimme Fuckenplates”
@@AlphanumericCharactersthat's a weird name indeed, almost like a judge I wrote in a vote for a Mr "Horse Man Ure", because Id rather have horse manure elected as a judge than any they had listed.
Ran into this with a car trailer I bought in Oklahoma. I even registered the trailer and got plates on it in my name. Texas would not budge on tags or title. I finally found somebody that helped me register the trailer in Texas. Still have no title. Texas is hard ass on trailers!
Prior to 1993 when the Feds, ICC/DOT set up a uniform CDL (Commercial Driver License) for all 50 states, VT issued only one driver license that everyone received, which was valid to operate any vehicle on their roads, regardless of weight or class. It was also a small piece of paper, not a card, and had no photograph.
We only have one driving license here in the UK, all of Europe is the same, different vehicles are in different categories & you are licensed for each category. We had paper licenses with no photo until 1998, but they don’t expire until you are 70, so lots of people are still driving on these licenses that unfold to bigger than an A4!
Years ago, New Zealand driver's licences looked like a passport booklet except in miniature (about half the size). No photos back then and the yearly or 5 yearly renewal stickers would be pasted onto the middle pages. When folks visited "neighbouring" Australia on holidays and back then their various state driving licences were just printed on a standard sheet of paper. Aussie cops were always amused when they saw NZ's mini passport looking driving licence book. Later both countries changed to creditcard sized plastic cards (*). . At first photos were optional, but later made compulsory. (*). In between the booklet and photocard styles, NZ for awhile issued a sorta thick waxed paper "Lifetime licence" valid for life (up to age 72) unless cancelled (for offending etc). No photos on them. Later the government decided they liked the idea of continuously charging renewal fees so they (reckon they) cancelled every single lifetime licence and made folks apply for 10 years licences anew. They did the same with NZ Firearms licences also. The lifetime Firearms licence that when issued came with a promise that it would "never be cancelled, unless you are convicted of a major criminal offence" well they simply cancelled everyone's firearms licence and made folks apply for new 10 yearly firearms licences. The application processing time for new licences is about 2 years and one year for renewals, you're only allowed to set the ball rolling on your renewal, 6 months before expiry. Oh what fun. Still, it employs lots of well paid civil servants lol.
Well I was told a German drivers license cost about $2k to get.... ii have to assume that there's no option to get licensed in another EU country without moving from Germany... with so many allied NATO military bases there American soldiers can drive on Autobaum with their US license.n I'mnot sure how violations aboard effect the status ...now losing privileges in one state effect your ability to obtain the license in another ...DUII suspension was the major motivation to get another states license which is just as well a good reason for motion wide agreement...as it was generally the states adjoining that had agreements to enforce suspension of another state....its sad though when it wall find a only failure to pay tickets that led to suspension ... as someone living in a densely populated city with options with public transportation to choose from... will find they are in the same situation aa someone who had their horse stolen out in the sparse western USA....without a means to travel you are dead... atleast financially you are if you have to get a job in a city and living rurally..... your own vehicle is essential for survival.... so only have 1 choice and thats to drive without a license
@@robkitchen5344 , I did hear that about the cost of German driving licenses, but if you pass your test in one EU country & move to another, you just exchange your license, you don’t have to take your test again. Remember that to drive a manual car here, you have to pass your test in a manual, if you pass your test in an automatic, you only get an automatic license. My friend lived in NJ & they moved to Germany, he had a UK & NJ license & he just swapped the UK license for a German one, whilst his wife had to go through the full German test.
Packaged with this story is a great book recommendation. ROBOT, TAKE THE WHEEL is every bit as good as mentioned. I was itrigued by the description so I got a downloadable audibook from my library and just finished listening to it. Ths is not just a book about technical issues. The language and layout are engaging and entertaining, Not to mention the large amount of humor woven throughout. This is a short book and a quick, entertaining read. Thank you for the excellent recommendation!
Torch loves taillights. David Tracy has great adventures with his brother (and enjoys storing cars in a muddy yard). Mercedes is an excellent chronicler of the good, bad, and humorous of converting the bus into an RV. Good stuff.
As a guy who bought a vehicle on a bill of sale, and was told to use the Vermont Loophole... I had to laugh when I saw the title of this video. I ended up doing the legit thing and did a title claim, but a warning to everyone... buy with a title! It's such a gamble to buy with a Bill of Sale. BTW other states shut this down as well, like Florida I think back in 2021 or 2022.
You sure? In the Army I was issued a driver's license to everything from a C tractor to a 5 tom dump truck, even an APC. My civilian Driver's license never changed.
@@MonkeyJedi99 Nobody including me said a driver's license was a title, so I don't know why you said that Actually as someone who had 5 military driver's licenses, I can tell you nowhere on it did it have any restrictions. I could of drove anything on it civilian or military doesn't matter
For those who live in Illinois, you can transfer a school bus title to an RV title with no problem. You must fill out the paperwork, and submit actual dated photos, and a detailed list of what was built. From that point, you will get a call from the secretary of state police for a detailed inspection of the built coach portion and a mechanical vehicle inspection if over 15000LBS If you fail, you go back through the whole process again. The whole transfer process takes five to six weeks. Please overnight your paperwork. You must have the same essentials as a real RV. Not a 2x4 junk construction special. My profile pix is my bus.
Here in the UK we have some strange rules around large vehicles. But our loopholes are all negative, for the driver. As a bus driver I was once asked to drive one of our old vehicles to another depot to be scrapped. As I boarded the bus I noticed that all the interior seats had been removed (apparently they were going to be kept as spares). I went back into the office and pointed out that, since there was less than 22 seats, I can no longer drive it with my licence, as it no longer qualifies as a bus. My boss then called the police to check with them and they agreed with me but said that no sensible cop would ever prosecute me for such a technicality. I still refused because, unless I have it in writing from the police, in the event that I get stopped, I wouldn't have a leg to stand on in court. Eventually, they sent a police officer over to accompany me on the journey. He had to stand for the entire trip as there was nowhere for him to sit :) Another little loophole is that there's a national weight limit of 40 tons on our roads but that only applies to "heavy goods vehicles" Whereas buses are only restricted by the number of passengers they can carry. (a typical double decker bus will hold around 100 passengers). So, technically, a bus could potentially carry more weight than a Heavy Goods Vehicle, because a bus doesn't have any weight restrictions. Yet a bus driver isn't allowed to drive a heavy goods vehicle, even though he can (theoretically) carry more weight than a HGV driver. That bus with it's seats removed would have still weighed in at about 12.5 tons empty so would have required a HGV licence to drive, but even then it would have to be reregistered as a HGV before it could be driven legally by a HGV licence holder. So as it stood, with those seats removed, there is NO licence in the UK that would allow it to be driven anywhere on public roads. Yet I could have towed it with another bus legally even though that's not something I'd want to do.
@@dpcrn Not really. Here in Illinois they have no problem doing it under "vehicle special construction". All Illinois wants is a road worthy chassis, and a coach portion that is equal to a decent RV with all the common standards. Many of these school bus conversions turn out to be piles of rolling junk. Some busses like mine that took three years to hand craft are well built machines. Worth the time and effort to do? Absolutely.
@@johnclamshellsp1969 My apologies, I was replying "Wow, That's crazy" to the reply from @kenfullman He was commenting about some strange rules in the UK.
@@dpcrn ahh no prob. However always handy news just in case. Also! As of June 26, 2023, the state of Vermont is no longer converting out of state titles for anyone doing a conversion.
My Skoolie (used to be a 78 passenger school bus is legally registered in PA as a 5 door hatchback. All you need to legally drive a privately owned bus is to have less than 6 seats. You can then have it converted to an RV registration once you add one of (I think 5) things. I believe it's a bed, water supply, bathroom, cooking surface, or power supply. My entire family (4 kids) my husband and I have lived in our fully converted bus for over 5 years. My youngest is now in college and moved there so my husband and I FINALLY have finished converting it so it sleeps just he and I. But it's been converted for all 5 years.
I've heard about Vermont being used to license military vehicles that were restricted to off-road vehicles in other states. I'm not sure if you could transfer it over to your state after it's been entered into the DMV system in Vermont.
Back in '77 Florida's car registration was apparently disconnected from issuing a plate (tag) because I still had my car registered in Illinois but had a Florida plate. I was in the Navy and moved around a lot. And I still had a Pennsylvania drivers license at that point. So my license, registration and plate were from three different states.
Years ago I noticed that a lot of semi trailers were registered in Maine. I heard that the reason was that Maine had or has the lowest cost for registration at the time (or maybe it still does).
I know this will sound crazy but even California cargo trailers and semi trailers or 15 to $25 a year I don't know how much cheaper you get to that. Recreational trailers are another story has to do with length
My cousin had his motor home registered in Florida since he spent the winters there, but switched it to Maine where his house was because of the high cost of Florida insurance. Maybe it has something to do with that.
My car costs $22.50/month to insure. I live in rural Maine. Out of state residents are allowed to register cars here. Lots of people have been doing this, but states like Assachusetts and Road Island have been getting really maddd about it.
I work at the DMV in Vermont speculate all you want but the blame is squarely on that writer, she embarrased some people and it was over. obviously it was a open secret BUT 100% her news story is what shut us down. me and half my coworkers have reduced hours now and 10% of the workforce got permanently laid off.
Sadly, I used Vermont to tag ten of my project cars that I am now driving. I did transfer the registrations once I got them into my own state. But in Pennsylvania there is no way that is even a 10th as easy to get an untitled vehicle titled. Vermont definitely made thousands of dollars off of me but it was well worth it. I found a little too late. They were stopping this as I have four other wants to do but sadly I’m never gonna be able to do them now.
So for those of us who have done the loophole and now drive the vehicles, how long until we can’t? Can we keep renewing the registration? Does this void our current registration?
@@Gnarlee517you could just register in the correct state. It was basically the only way to legally tag vehicles, but once you got plates you can turn around and get them in any state. It also doesn't sound like they are going to stop renewals since that's not a form you have to send in that I'm aware (and almost every state allows you to renew with minimal checking, with the most they check being if it's insured in that state but you could literally switch the insurance for a day but most just want to make sure it's insured somewhere)
I owned a car in Montana, and after I moved to Idaho, I couldn't find the title. The time got away from me, and by the time I got around to applying for a duplicate title from Montana, Montana had moved their repository from Deer Lodge to Helena, and shredded old documents. The state had no record of my title anymore, so I could not get a duplicate. I did have the last registration, and took it to the local DMV here in Idaho to see what I could do. They let me apply for a bonded title, and said that if no one else \ comes along within three years with a claim to the car, I could remove the "bondedness" from the title, and have a clear title. That was my option, so I did it. During the process, they made me sign an affidavit stating that I will never again buy a car without a title (even though I hadn't), and stated that it was a one-time thing, as far as the state was concerned. I would be interested in trying again, to see if the state actually enforces that, but I don't want to risk the money involved to buy the car in the first place, and then not be able to register or sell it. Has anyone else in Idaho been able to apply for more than one bonded title ever, or more importantly, in the last couple of years?
i figured this was going to happen, I had a number of friends start registering cars in Vermont all around the same time, like there was a huge surge. Had a feeling it was getting out of hand and someone would take notice.
Title less classic cars didn’t kill the VY Loophole. Since 2019 vehicle thefts have almost tripled, and the process was being used to title stolen cars. This has been an open secret on the internet for 15-20 years. I registered a 1975 Honda Enduro this way in 2009, because I found an even older forum thread on the process.
If you can still do this if you LIVE in VT, then someone should start a business where they actually do a background check on each vehicle because there's a lot of us that have older cars and want to make them street legal again.
This process is very well known in the vintage VW community. I guess some of those abandoned cars just got a little cheaper, depending on where you live. When I buy a car without a title, I treat it as though it only has the value of its parts. If a title can be had eventually, that's fine. But it can be quite difficult to jump through all of the hoops.
If you have a friend that has a mechanics shop he can do a mechanics lien and at the end the state will issue a new title to that vehicle. All of the rules and laws have to be followed according to your state.@@DADDYCOKE2012
Yup, everybody knew about this for years...ironically, in a similar vein, I put vintage, era-correct tags on 3 of my classic/vintage vehicles (with permanent registration) and when I moved across the country, I just changed the address on the registration. Best part? The vintage plates look almost identical to the same era of tags in the "New" state.
I live in San Francisco, and there are many parts of town where people permanently park and live in their RV. I always wondered why so many were from Vermont.
I did this a few years ago with an old Honda motorcycle. Getting the Vermont plates was super easy and I rode it around with those for a while. However convincing my home states DMV to swap the registration and title to my state was a whole other thing. I think they had me do paperwork like I brought it in from another country. I'm sure I was what all the DMV people talked about at lunch that day.
we recently had to title a boat in Washington that didn't have a title previously. The process for that involves getting what amounts to a branded title that states "ownership in doubt" that lasts for 3 years.
We had an old school bus titled as an RV here in Wisconsin. The hoops we had to go through weren't too bad... There was a list of things that you could do and you had to do "x" number of them to qualify. For ours, we installed a sink, shower, beds (4 of them), cupboards, repainted it non-school bus yellow, and there may have been some more but I don't really remember anymore.
I bought and sold out of state cars for a long time and wish I knew about the Vermont loophole. I either trailered them to my home state or left them in the state while I registered them and went back to get it. It was a hassle. How did I not know!!!
I wonder how this even worked. My then fiancé, now wife, had my car in MD while I was deployed. My car was registered in NJ at the time. One of her neighbors was cop and after a month, she had an official notice that the car has been in MD for over 30 days and must be registered in MD. I’m pretty sure her neighbor did that. Do other states not require the car to be registered in that state if it is kept there for a certain amount of time? I guess it only matters if someone can prove your car has been there that long.
Let's be clear Vermont only stopped out of state registration if you got a amazing barn find you just need to move to Vermont for a few days register the car and get the plates and then move back to your home state and transfer the plates
I did this but I had purchased a used car in a private sale in Vermont and needed to drive in home. I kept the plate until my state sent me notice that I needed to register it that state.
This opens the door for Vermont residents to set up purchases from out of state owners, then register the vehicle and sell it back, or sell it to any other non-resident.
I did this (in Idaho!) at LEAST 25 years ago with an SUV I pulled out of a junkyard, although I did it through a "title service," which charged me $125 at the time, and I got back a VT title, which I could take to the ID DMV and transfer to myself. Since this is no longer an option, at least in Idaho, if you have a vehicle you own, you can simply take it to the DMV, and the county vehicle inspector will do a VIN inspection, and then he (or she) does their little investigation, which takes a few weeks, and involves them researching the VIN, doing a last known owner search, posting some ads in the paper asking for the owner to come forth, and if no one does, they grant you a title. No bond necessary, and it doesn't cost you any extra, as this is basically part of the vehicle inspectors job description, although you can expect a fair amount of grumbling from them about it, because you're actually making them do work instead of just rubber stamping titles all day.
Georgia is an utter nightmare for titles. Rebuilts from other states need inspections, any error at all requires notaries of correction on titles, cannot private sale salvage titles without losing the ability to transfer it to rebuilt etc. I literally just VT loopholed a WRX late last year because Georgia wanted me to pay their ridiculous ad Valorem tax twice to get the car into my name.
It's funny, when the news broke, and a link to the autopian was shared, i had NEVER heard of that site, so i was skeptical of the story. I had looked for other sources, but at the time, no other sources had talked about it (that I could find anyway, though i didn't really look that hard). It's nice to know that site is a good source. I will keep that in mind for future stories
I lived in Rutland VT for a while, I knew the DMV was easier than most states but I didn't know you could do that? I knew you could register an older vehicle without a title, I only moved to VT because Oregon's DMV was insanely strict I had to quit a good job because the job was dependent on my DL being issued by OR. I worked for a company that worked indirectly with OHP and local police but that didn't matter they would not give me a DL because I didn't have a mortgage or a lease, living in a Motel/hotel is not good enough? Some States laws are so asinine .
Is this not government over regulation ruining things? If it wasn't nearly impossible to register perfectly good vehicles, there wouldn't need to be a "loophole" to begin with.
Alabama used to have similar lenient registration policies, with no title required for registration. It was a great public service for those who purchased vehicles from those who had lost the original titles before trying to sell their vehicles.
In 1977, I moved to a small town, in north Georgia, with a friend, for work. He had been working for this company for several months. He had brought his wife back to Florida to visit family so I rode back with them as I couldn't afford to drive my car. This was early June. By the 4th of July weekend, I had gotten a few pay checks under my belt, my own place and gas was 59c a gallon so I paid my friend's cousin to drive me back to my parent's house in Florida to pick up my stuff and car. We arrived in Gainesville Georgia on July 5th. July 5th, 6th, 7th, I got stopped by 3 different cops asking what I was doing so far north in Ge4orgia with a Florida plate and that I had 10 days from arrival to change it. The 4th of July that year fell on a Friday. The 5th and 6th were a Saturday and Sunday. All days that the DMV were closed.
Years ago, I heard about a car in poor condition that was stolen. Returned by the State Police in a different State after it was towed. It was all tricked up, far better than new!
Any time you know someone who’s cheating a system and pretends it’s a victimless crime, remind them that people like them are the reason the rest of us can’t have nice things.
In PA you need a Class B for any vehicle over 26,000lb and a Class A for any combination over 26,000lb. We have non commercial Class A and B but the process to get them is almost the same as a CDL.
That is pretty rare. Cdl is required for most class 6 and larger vehixles except actual Motor homes. (Sleeping, cooking, and sanitation facilities permanantly attached)
Hey, Steve! Thanks for the humorous parody of the Maryland state flag. I guess the message is one of the state's unofficial mottos: "Maryland is for crabs." The only car trivium I know about my state of Md.: We don't have a DMV. We have an MVA. Fred
There are going to be a lot of car dealerships that are going to be incredibly upset with this change. I would wager that things will change back in the next 5 years.
@@obsidianjane4413 OK so you didn't watch the entire episode. He commented that a women reg. a full size bus in vermont where she should have needed a CDL. For me the Navy gave me a 2 ht driving test & issued me a license to drive a full size bus in any State in the USA
@@leofredette19 I did. Still has nothing to do with titling a vehicle. And you lied in your OP. You do have a bus license, not "only ever had a regular driver's license". Think more, type less.
This is why you go to swap meets and find the guys selling dash plates with titles. ( Just be sure to use the correct rivets or mounting fastners. This is how many people make their hearses a station wagon. In Michigan it's pretty easy to register a hearse or converted school bus as a standard motor vehicle.
I live in NY, 7 miles from the border with Vermont, and probably a third of all cars in town have Vermont plates, primarily to save money on insurance. Guess that's coming to an end.
I am a mechanic and have thought about buying an older car that I want to build and have thought about using this process to get a title if the vehicle in question does not have one or it is missing. It is more expensive than the VT loophole but definitely doable with the bill of sale.
Filing for title for abandonded property works similarly in MO. Certified letter to last known address of last registered owner & VIN check by state police & you're good to go
@@MrGamerholic It is not more expensive. The Vermont thing required you to pay sales tax so, depending on the vehicle, it could get quite expensive. The mechanics lien is searching for the owner, sending out certified letters and publishing it in a legal newspaper and you are done.
In 2010 I sold 4 T600 Tatraplans to a buyer in Czechoslovakia. I had title for only one, but Vermont facilitated obtaining titles for the other three. Off they went, back home. Thanks Vermont!
Love watching you from Australia Steve. When I lived in the the USA I just found it crazy and difficult to navigate the lifestyle. It is just too easy and comfortable back here. No stress like USA, Americans seem to be addicted to stress and drama.
Yes, you are right 😅 everyone acts like space alien overlords are making all the petty annoying rules and regulations so we have no possible way to change them. It’s ridiculous… hey everybody, we make the rules! 😂
About a decade ago I bought a Japanese market only 250cc 2-stroke motorcycle (Honda NSR250). It was legitimate, not stolen or anything, and it was just over the 25 year-old minimum for legal importation. But Japanese paperwork is...challenging, plus they only have 11 digit VINs instead of 17 digits. Solution: Register with VT, take the registration (which states that a title is not required) to the DMV in Illinois, confuse the DMV worker a bit with the short VIN, pay the exorbitant IL fees, and 8 weeks later receive a nice clean Illinois title (and Blackhawks vanity plates).
I'm so happy to hear this as it makes my job easier. I handle titles for a neighboring state and people would constantly be rejected for bad paperwork, go to vt for a title, and then come back to us thinking they'd get away with it. People are so effing annoying when it comes to cars.
I mean if you think people being able to claim any vehicle they don't have a title on is theirs then I have a Maserati to sell you :3 you must be really smart
@@kazeinu0151 Why would Vermont registration be rejected if it was legally done in their state. Are there not agreements between your state and that one to process each others documents?
I had no idea about the registration thing - Here I was thinking you were going to say they closed the loop on being able to legally pass on a double yellow line.
@@8000RPM. its never a good idea to uncover the loopholes & cheat codes etc.... but as a journalist thats her job. Word was out long b4 she wrote the article. Id put $$$ on that.
Can we just be honest about the REAL problem here and admit that it's not that Vermont had a "loophole", but that a loophole is even necessary in the first place. DMV's around the country make it far too difficult (and expensive) to register a vehicle to begin with. Too many laws, rules, and regulations and frankly, it shouldn't be that difficult. Especially in today's world of computers where checking a VIN and previous ownership should be easy. What has happened (and happens all too much in government) is tha everytime someone finds a way to circumvent the myriad of rules and regulations, the government creates new rules, and once people (criminals) find a way around them, they create even more. While well intentioned (it shouldn't be easy to register a stolen vehicle), it's also created the need for honest people to find an alternative. Further complicating the matter is the fact that our own government(s) have also used the need for these rules to bilk you out of your hard earned money. In short, when criminals and those with nefarious motives find a way around the rules, they create a situation where the cure is worse than the disease. We need to stop over-compicating the rules and processes for everyday people to register a car just to stop a few bad actors who will still find a way to circumvent them. You've got to ask yourself, what is worse...allowing a few bad guys to register vehicles that are stolen (or avoid taxes and fees), or making it damn near impossible for someone who's honest to get a title and registration? Plus titles and registrations shouldn't be a money making scheme for government. I'd rather take my chances on someone registering a stolen car than have nothing but headaches for something that should be a simple transaction and role of government in the DMV to begin with.
I guess y'all know down here in the southern Appalachian Mountains of GA we is a might more easy goin' when it comes to papers. They ain't hardly no paperwork you gotta have to trade cars. In the county I live in the law is, "If you can get in a car, crank it up and skedaddle under its own power in 10 minutes or less, that puts the retitle process into motion. Then, when you get home, put a tag on the back off your bass boat trailer, the Camaro on blocks in front of your trailer or, instead, an "Eat More Possum" tag can be used as a temporary until you get a tag you like. Once you've done with that, then park the car behind your trailer, at a bootlegging joint or in the Piggly Wiggly parking lot. Return to where you left the car the next morning. If your new car is still there without a boot and no cops or security folks from the Piggly Wiggly are around the next day, then go on down to the courthouse, tell 'em what your done an make youre "X" where they show you or, if your edumicated, then write you're name or what your known as, like Digger, Scooter, Psycho, Cooter, Skeeter.... Your done! If you are unable to complete any step you need, then if you know the sheriff, give him a drank of likker and he's obliged to push it through for you. If you don't know the sheriff or one of his cousins, then you'll need to take a whole jar of likker to the sheriff (some will prefer homemade crack for a friendly touch) then he'll push your new title right through. It's the law! Lordy! Ain't Georgie a damn good state to be in? Drive your new pickup'em up truck with pride. I shore do love Merica an all them states in the south that stuck together to win the War of Yankee Aggression. And boy's take Ole Billy Robert's advice, "Don't never loan your chainsaw, your wife or your pickup truck to nobody! If you do, somebody's bound to throw a rod in 'em."
Alabama is another state that it is easy to get a license plate. My daughter, who lives there, says it doesn't need a windshield or doors. There is a picture of a Porsche 917 race car (not legal to drive on the street ANYWHERE without serious mods.) in Europe that had an Alabama tag on it. Belonged to a Count Rossi.
My mom had a sign that my grandmother bought her for our kitchen. It said "theres two options for dinner, take it or leave it!" It hung on the backsplash behind our stove for two decades until they finally built a new house (well after we moved out and stayed gone, for obvious reasons😂)
In Arkansas we also have bonded titles as a thing. Myself I've never used it but my brother and my dad, along with some neighbors growing up, have all done this.
My Dad bought a (small) school bus when I was a kid and did a camper conversion on it. Never occurred to me that he might have needed a CDL. Only had about half of the 'motorhome' requirements.
You can probably still do it to some extent in any state if you do the following. Register a business in the particular state with loose rules then title the vehicle to the business, later you can transfer the ownership to yourself or another person.
@@anomamos9095 I know, I used one in Oregon and registered over 100 cars from my person collection, but that was back in the '90's. At the time you couldn't beat $30.00 for 2 years which is a nickel a day per car.
California used to issue non expiring drivers licenses. My son’s grandmother had one. She was 60 and it still had her photo of when she was in her 20’s!!
HuH? In my state any vehicle 'principle' garaged for six months or more had to have this states registration (and Taxes), only recently is the state cracking down on Florida Registrations.
I bought an old wooden boat from a towing company just for the inboard engine. I knew the people and they laughed about they used to pee in it. I got over involved and fixed it up so it would float. Then I thought about titling it. Boat had not been licensed in over 15 years. The state was kind enough to give me the prior owners name and county he lived in. They would never do that today. I went to the county board of health to see if someone had died with that name, and they had. But, he was a junior and too young to have owned the boat at that age. Get this, 23 years old, died by being run over by a cement truck in the middle of the road with a blood alcohol content of .21. I found the father and he said he traded the boat to fix some damage on his pickup, but the guy never finished the job. I said I'll give you $100 for the title and you can get that bumper. I brought paperwork to start requesting a new title. Instead, he pulled out his wallet and produced the title. And his sister who lived next door was a notary. Add a dog and you got a country song.
Excellent story!
Wait... The guy was carrying the title for a boat he hadn't registered in 15 years, and wouldn't float, on his person..?
@@TheBrokenLife May have done so after initially being contacted about it and before they met in person.
Might be a great doco or script for a short film, Merica 🇺🇲🤙
What a fantastic chapter in your life, man. Great story! 🍻
I knew this was going to be a bill of sale vs title thing.
I have used vermont for this, but I wouldnt call the way I used it a loophole. My motorcycle was 40 years old. It was sold a couple of times with title. The person who owned the last title died 25 years prior to my purchasing it. It was sold a few years after his death when it stopped working. It changed hands like 10 times, all from bill of sale, all from people who wanted a project bike and didnt finish it.
I put a year of labor, time, and parts into the bike. Got it up and running. Then my state made it exceptionally hard to get a title. Everybody who had previously owned the title was dead and nobody had registered it after purchasing through bill of sale. There was literally no way to contact anybody who had ever legally owned the bike.
Vermont let me register it with a bill of sale and a VIN check. That registration allowed me to get a title. That title allowed a 40 year old motorcycle to get back on the road, and allowed me to eventually sell it WITH title, ensuring that the bike will remain able to be driven for years to come.
Yeah, I think that's kinda Steve's point. One person's legit solution for an understandable situation is another person's loophole to get away with something shady. Thus, 'This is why we can't have nice things.' :)
That's how I used it as well. Old CB750 that too many people tried to fix, last titled owner long gone. Trail bikes that nobody ever bothered to register. Vermont was the way to get it up to date.
Paul Daniels could have helped with the medium part
@@CommieHunter7
Do you mean a CB75 ?
A 750 would be too big to be a Trail Bike. A friend of mine had a Honda SL 75, so I am pretty familiar with those early to mid 70's bikes.
@@edf3725 no, I just meant, two different scenario. Two different bikes
As soon as I saw "VT" and "Loophole" I knew what this story was going to be about... And I shed a tear :(
I was also a VT motorcycle registration customer living in VA. Sad to see this gem fade away.
Same here. Live in VA have VT tags on a couple of my cars and motorcycle.
South Dakota still does this and you dont need auto insurance
In IL and I had to do the bonded title for a motorcycle I found by a dumpster. It took 300 days and a LOT of paperwork to prove that I tried to reach out to the owner. The title wasn't considered "clean" for three years. After that, the bond expires and the previous owner has not grounds to re-claim the vehicle. I was able to sell the bike right after getting the title, and the new owner was able to get IL plates.
How would you reach out in the first place? Take it to a police station and ask them to run the plate?
Honestly I don't see an issue with that at all. It should be hard to title and sell a vehicle that someone found because who knows why you were able to find it by a dumpster.
IL is easy, just go pay some skeezy title company to do it.
Unfortunately my state doesn't do bonded titles.
I had something similar in IN, even with a valid out of state title, but it had been "jumped" (legally) about 6 times by a bunch of buy-here-pay-here dealers and never re-titled without a lien. It took about 9 months, all said and done. Good times...
I have a parts car without a title that is going to be fun to get rid of. I'll probably have to cut it up and throw it in the actual trash in little pieces. 🤣
I imported a trailer from BC to California and based on a bureaucratic pissing match between DMV staff I learned you can do a bonded title, at least for trailers, here. The process was needlessly convoluted and costly and nobody in my local DMV office could deal with it so I got to do it by mail/phone/voicemail with Sacramento. Had I known I would have used this VT Loophole in a heartbeat.
Get out of Commie-Fornia!
I was actually advised by a CA DMV clerk to license my vintage trailer out of state. I bought the thing back in 1990 and my wife died a few weeks later. Stashed it at the home of my father's friend. Moved back to Northern California and reclaimed it decades later. Mainly because the family insisted I do so. The years haven't been kind to it. However, I do have a valid Pink slip (one of the ones which actually ARE pink!) and they now want six hundred dollars to transfer the trailer. The Clerk suggested I register it in another, more sympathetic, state, then bring it back to California. I'm looking into that.
@@ronaldsmith6829 Don't take her advice. Even if it is registered in another state as soon as you bring it back to CA they will still get you for the back fees. CA knows people do this and they do not let you off the hook.
For example. I sold a 1975 Mercury Montego Colony park to a guy in Las Vegas. It had had a Nevada title for years. I sold it to him with my Oregon dealers license and with an Oregon temporary registration awaiting the new title. He drove it in to CA and was stopped. They impounded the car because it had outstanding fees on the old CA plates from years back. They didn't care about the Nevada title or the new Oregon registration.
@@mexicanspec - Except that the vehicle itself can't have "fees". Only the owner (or possibly driver). They were trying extortion because they couldn't find the original owner. 'Your vehicle owes $700 in taxes' doesn't make any sense at all.
@@tbelding Not true at all. The plates stay with the vehicles in California and the fees stay with the car. If you ever want to register that car in California again, you have to pay all back fees, no matter who the previous owner was. California will even go so far as to attach your wages so they get paid for back registrations.
I know of people who used VT loophole to "Scrub" a branded title. They would take a car with a rebuilt or salvage title and register it through VT in order to sell it with a clean title. That's another use of that loophole.
Registering it didn't create or cleanse a title...registering it just created a registration.
@@jamesbael6255VT issues a new title. A clean one at that.
@@J.erem.y Not if someone was using this for the proper reasons and registering a vehicle under their 15 year rule. After 15 years old they didn't issue titles. So I'm not sure where your info is from. The entire loophole only worked bc vermont would issue a 'transferable registration' which you would then use to secure a title in whatever state you're in. If your state turned a branded title into a clean one the onus is on your state, not vermont. Again, older than 15 years, they didnt take a title OR issue one. Had they been issuing actual titles, this loophole most likely wouldn't have been feasible, due to them not requiring one in the first place. Just my 0.02 cents from having done it multiple times myself.
Carfax negates the usefulness of that.
car fax is bs if you pay out of pocket for damage no one knows but you and the bondo shop!@@mexicanspec
I am so glad I got the title recently for my 56 VW vert after owning it for 35 years, as I am finally getting around to restore it. Lost the original title and had never put it in my name, thanks Vermont.
I also titled a 4 door Russian jeep I had in the 80s but that was done through Georgia.
I did the bonded title thing in 2013 in TX on a Peterbilt truck my husband had bought to resell. It was a hobby of his. He seldom changed the titles on trucks or vehicles he bought as projects. He died unexpectedly with one of these projects in progress. There was a buyer who'd been negotiating price with him, so when we finally made a deal 2 yrs later I had to go the bonded title route.
It was great for me because at that time truck prices were unhinged and every delay, or when he walked away from negotiations gave me a chance to raise the price $5K. It helps if you're not desperate for cash. He eventually paid about $15K over what I initially asked for the 2005 Peterbilt.
Decades ago, Fulton County in upstate New York issued license plates with the format FC then a number. So you had a license plate with a plate number like FC4887. At the same time, foreign consul registered cars in New York had the same format, with an FC then a number. Diplomatic immunity usually protects cars from parking tickets. So cars with FC plates avoided parking tickets in New York City, especially in Manhattan, home of the United Nations. People would register their cars in Fulton County just for their plate numbers starting with FC. Until the U.S. State Department got the diplomats special diplomat plates with a multi-color scheme different from NYS DMV regular license plates.
Man, Doofus R Us on Fulton's part
@@classicclassi6146 perhaps not. May have been their process before the UN was founded. haven't been county plates for many years.
@@fionam3554 In 1984, the U.S. Department of State took over issuance of diplomatic auto license plates. On the Internet, someone five years ago was offering for sale a New York plate with the number 941-FC, 2-75. Pumpkin colored like all NYS license plates back then. From license plates for sale on eBay, Florida and Arizona issued he plates with the words "FOREIGN CONSUL" clearly shown. Until 1984.
@@JudgeCrater22 you didn't have county plates in NY at that time. It may have been a simple random plate. Florida or Arizona, I don't know
South Dakota; you will see SD licence plates all over Mexico and central America. No inspection, online registration.
It used to be it was easier to claim residence in SD, too. I think you could just have a PO box at one point in time. I could be wrong. SD has no income tax.
Shhhhh don't tell everyone! 😛
Now you’ve gone and blown it!
I've heard that it's also really easy to establish state citizenship here and they have low taxes. Probably related issues.
South dakota didn't have a drivers license until 1954
My buddy found a mint Shelby Daytona in a junkyard right after it was put out, so he bought it, and brought it home and got a Vermont title. I think he replaced the oil pan, but epoxied the gas tank - the yard just punches holes to drain fluids... It didn't need much other work, and was soon being taken to car shows!!!!
Apparently, the Daytona had been seized by the Indiana state police, and no one bought it at their auction, so it ended up being sold as scrap.
Whew!! You had me scared. Vermont is also a state, that has ZERO nudity laws. I was afraid they closed that off
*clothesed😂
@@bartsanders1553 lmao! Nice one.
honestly, I wish they would. lots of ugly people in Vermont.
So a nude car in Vermont would not have pates ???
That means I could [AHEM] "open carry" and be within my rights? What about weenerdogs?
Thank you so much for mentioning the bonded title law in Michigan and I guess a few other states. I have restored several "barn-find" motorcycles and had to drive illegally with the plate from a different bike, hoping not to get caught. I turned down several old vehicles because of the title problem (definitely derelict vehicles not stolen) and will try for a bonded title in a state that allows this if another opportunity arises. There should be a way (like the bonded title) for people to restore old vehicles or boats that have been separated from their paperwork, without opening the door to theft.
But because it can be used by thieves, it will be. There are a couple of southern states that make is sooo easy to get a title for a derelict/stolen machine that some small companies do that for you. Yikes.
@@UncleKennysPlace possession is 9/10 of the law
@@UncleKennysPlace instead of making yet new rules and policies, just enforce the actual crime of theft. And as a punishment, a judge could make a car thief no longer able to title ANYTHING as a punishment.
@@UncleKennysPlace, what Southern states? Thanks
@@UncleKennysPlace prove a bill of sale form the property owner where it sits, AND that it was abandoned or derelict for ages. problem solved. that would prevent people from just titling vehicles that they stole yesterday that were manufactured that same year. there's ways to make it such that it's not exploited.
MORE OVER.... why even have titles for vehicles anyway... we can getaway with bills of sale and other validations... you don't need a title to prove something is yours.
Interesting about the school bus to RV conversion. In Ohio, you download an affidavit form attesting that the commercial vehicle has been transformed into an RV having these 4 requirements: A means of cooking, a place to sit and eat, refrigeration, and a place to sleep. Fill out the form, have your signature notarized, head to the Clerk of Courts and leave with a passenger vehicle motor home title. No longer need a CDL, no longer need expensive commercial vehicle insurance.
Why would you need a CDL for a vehicle that you're not operating commercially?
I almost used VT for this! There were even companies that would handle it all for me, using Vermont to give me a clean title in my preferred state for a hefty fee. My friend and I bought two old dirt bikes (a 1987, 1990) that had never been titled (Ohio started titling OHVs in 1999). In order to ride in national forests, bikes had to be registered (requires a title in OH) and insured. The Ohio title agency no longer has a form to register untitled/older dirt bikes, unless it was purchased out of state.
Thank goodness, one county sheriff here in Ohio was willing to check the VINs for any prior registration, fill out the out of state form and the title agency accepted our notarized BOS. Many counties did not even know how to do it. I am trying to pay some tax and be 100% legal! There should be a way. Thanks for the info in your videos!
Indeed, it should be just as easy to be law abiding as to be law breaking. When it's not they just encourage more crime. Bureaucracy is a detriment to living. Makes me wonder what hoops you have to jump through to register a vehicle you build from scratch in your garage, because that's something I'd like to do.
@@anon_y_mousse While we are slowly being consumed by tax happy socialists that want to outlaw everything based on ignorance and fear; Washington still allows titling custom vehicles and trailers after passing state patrol inspection. (Inspection is partly safety equipment, lights bumpers etc, and partly looking for major parts with stolen or altered VINs.)
Of course the dept of licensing will charge yet an extra fee if you want lube when it comes to pay for plates and tabs.
@@anon_y_mousse Oh and ironicaly Cali has pretty loose requirements for custom vehicles.(or did 20 years ago) I've seen motorized couches and bar-stools on go-kart frames get CA plates. (They hadall the standard car lights. )
Edit add: Though there may have been some technical loophole like the couch or the running gear was a 1964, I recall something about a cutoff year and it was about when Cali started its emissions requirements in the late 60s.
@@TheDuckofDoom. I'm not sure why that's ironic, and neither me or @jalex19100 mentioned California, but I would love to see a couch driving down the highway with actual license plates on it. Although, I have doubts that they'd license something like that today, unless maybe you made it electric, then it'd be licensed even if it failed every test except the obvious emissions.
@@anon_y_mousse It's ironic because CA has had a long reputation for being very difficult when it comes to post emmissions vehicles that weren't specifically produced for CA with all the corporate testing requirements.
I saw the couch driving around city streets not an open highway. (specifically a loveseat, for width reasons) Same with the bar stool kart.
I bought a trailer from a friend that had lived in Oklahoma at the time he bought it and they didn't title trailers there. Went to my state's DMV to get it titled and registered and they wouldn't do it despite having the bill of sale. They wouldn't budge even when we showed them the Oklahoma DMV information about them not doing trailer titles. Luckily he had bought it from a builder/dealer near where we live and we were able to go down to the office with the bill of sale and original paperwork provided from my friend, and after matching everything up to their records they issued us a new "original" build certificate certifying that we were the original owners of a brand "new" 10 year old trailer that the DMV was then perfectly willing to sign off on and issue us a new title and registration for. In the long run I'm glad to have gotten it taken care of the right way, but had we known about this loophole back then I might have said "screw it" and just gotten a plate for it from Vermont.
I had the same issue with a trailer I bought from a guy from Florida. Apparently people use Florida similar to Vermont in some way. So my state DMV was telling me they were suspicious that it could be stolen.
They guy gave me the “certificate of origin” from the builder, the receipt from Lowes where he bought it, Florida registration records and even the owners manual. I finally called a guy at my central DMV where they did the actual processing. I had found the phone number for that office while searching all over the DMV website for info. The guy was surprised I called. Nobody ever called that number. He told me to fill out a certain form and if my local office gave me trouble to have them call him. The form had a space for a sworn affidavit by the original seller, Lowes. So I was supposed to have a representative from a Lowes store 2,000 miles away sign the form.
The form I turned in was signed by the “Lowes General Manager”, the box PRINT NAME read “Gianna Flugenplat”
Weird thing is if you looked close at her messy signature it sure looked like it said “Gimme Fuckenplates”
@@AlphanumericCharactersthat's a weird name indeed, almost like a judge I wrote in a vote for a Mr "Horse Man Ure", because Id rather have horse manure elected as a judge than any they had listed.
Ran into this with a car trailer I bought in Oklahoma. I even registered the trailer and got plates on it in my name. Texas would not budge on tags or title. I finally found somebody that helped me register the trailer in Texas. Still have no title. Texas is hard ass on trailers!
Prior to 1993 when the Feds, ICC/DOT set up a uniform CDL (Commercial Driver License) for all 50 states, VT issued only one driver license that everyone received, which was valid to operate any vehicle on their roads, regardless of weight or class. It was also a small piece of paper, not a card, and had no photograph.
We only have one driving license here in the UK, all of Europe is the same, different vehicles are in different categories & you are licensed for each category. We had paper licenses with no photo until 1998, but they don’t expire until you are 70, so lots of people are still driving on these licenses that unfold to bigger than an A4!
Years ago, New Zealand driver's licences looked like a passport booklet except in miniature (about half the size). No photos back then and the yearly or 5 yearly renewal stickers would be pasted onto the middle pages. When folks visited "neighbouring" Australia on holidays and back then their various state driving licences were just printed on a standard sheet of paper. Aussie cops were always amused when they saw NZ's mini passport looking driving licence book. Later both countries changed to creditcard sized plastic cards (*). . At first photos were optional, but later made compulsory. (*). In between the booklet and photocard styles, NZ for awhile issued a sorta thick waxed paper "Lifetime licence" valid for life (up to age 72) unless cancelled (for offending etc). No photos on them. Later the government decided they liked the idea of continuously charging renewal fees so they (reckon they) cancelled every single lifetime licence and made folks apply for 10 years licences anew. They did the same with NZ Firearms licences also. The lifetime Firearms licence that when issued came with a promise that it would "never be cancelled, unless you are convicted of a major criminal offence" well they simply cancelled everyone's firearms licence and made folks apply for new 10 yearly firearms licences. The application processing time for new licences is about 2 years and one year for renewals, you're only allowed to set the ball rolling on your renewal, 6 months before expiry. Oh what fun. Still, it employs lots of well paid civil servants lol.
My first drivers license was typed on paper with no photo ... those were the days
Well I was told a German drivers license cost about $2k to get.... ii have to assume that there's no option to get licensed in another EU country without moving from Germany... with so many allied NATO military bases there American soldiers can drive on Autobaum with their US license.n I'mnot sure how violations aboard effect the status ...now losing privileges in one state effect your ability to obtain the license in another ...DUII suspension was the major motivation to get another states license which is just as well a good reason for motion wide agreement...as it was generally the states adjoining that had agreements to enforce suspension of another state....its sad though when it wall find a only failure to pay tickets that led to suspension ... as someone living in a densely populated city with options with public transportation to choose from... will find they are in the same situation aa someone who had their horse stolen out in the sparse western USA....without a means to travel you are dead... atleast financially you are if you have to get a job in a city and living rurally..... your own vehicle is essential for survival.... so only have 1 choice and thats to drive without a license
@@robkitchen5344 , I did hear that about the cost of German driving licenses, but if you pass your test in one EU country & move to another, you just exchange your license, you don’t have to take your test again. Remember that to drive a manual car here, you have to pass your test in a manual, if you pass your test in an automatic, you only get an automatic license.
My friend lived in NJ & they moved to Germany, he had a UK & NJ license & he just swapped the UK license for a German one, whilst his wife had to go through the full German test.
We used to title and tag our dirtbikes in Vermont to "legally" race enduros in the Southeast.
It's a horrible tragedy. My state is virtually impossible to get another title issued. Was able to buy quite a few cars super cheap without titles
What state is that so I don't move there? Lol
If you know somebody with a small mechanics shop you can do a lien sale on any of those vehicles and get a clean title.
@@goosenotmaverick1156 PA
@@junit483 ah fun. We have been talking about moving to Vermont or Idaho. We want to get more rural than we already are. Town is too close lol
Packaged with this story is a great book recommendation. ROBOT, TAKE THE WHEEL is every bit as good as mentioned. I was itrigued by the description so I got a downloadable audibook from my library and just finished listening to it. Ths is not just a book about technical issues. The language and layout are engaging and entertaining, Not to mention the large amount of humor woven throughout. This is a short book and a quick, entertaining read.
Thank you for the excellent recommendation!
Torch loves taillights. David Tracy has great adventures with his brother (and enjoys storing cars in a muddy yard). Mercedes is an excellent chronicler of the good, bad, and humorous of converting the bus into an RV. Good stuff.
As a guy who bought a vehicle on a bill of sale, and was told to use the Vermont Loophole... I had to laugh when I saw the title of this video. I ended up doing the legit thing and did a title claim, but a warning to everyone... buy with a title! It's such a gamble to buy with a Bill of Sale. BTW other states shut this down as well, like Florida I think back in 2021 or 2022.
You sure? In the Army I was issued a driver's license to everything from a C tractor to a 5 tom dump truck, even an APC.
My civilian Driver's license never changed.
You can file for a lost title in a lot of states as well I believe.
Your army license is only good for the army
@@jasonbourne1596 1) A driver's license is not a vehicle title.
2) The military driver's license is only valid for military vehicles.
@@MonkeyJedi99 Nobody including me said a driver's license was a title, so I don't know why you said that
Actually as someone who had 5 military driver's licenses, I can tell you nowhere on it did it have any restrictions.
I could of drove anything on it civilian or military doesn't matter
For those who live in Illinois, you can transfer a school bus title to an RV title with no problem. You must fill out the paperwork, and submit actual dated photos, and a detailed list of what was built. From that point, you will get a call from the secretary of state police for a detailed inspection of the built coach portion and a mechanical vehicle inspection if over 15000LBS If you fail, you go back through the whole process again. The whole transfer process takes five to six weeks. Please overnight your paperwork. You must have the same essentials as a real RV. Not a 2x4 junk construction special. My profile pix is my bus.
Here in the UK we have some strange rules around large vehicles. But our loopholes are all negative, for the driver. As a bus driver I was once asked to drive one of our old vehicles to another depot to be scrapped. As I boarded the bus I noticed that all the interior seats had been removed (apparently they were going to be kept as spares). I went back into the office and pointed out that, since there was less than 22 seats, I can no longer drive it with my licence, as it no longer qualifies as a bus. My boss then called the police to check with them and they agreed with me but said that no sensible cop would ever prosecute me for such a technicality. I still refused because, unless I have it in writing from the police, in the event that I get stopped, I wouldn't have a leg to stand on in court. Eventually, they sent a police officer over to accompany me on the journey. He had to stand for the entire trip as there was nowhere for him to sit :)
Another little loophole is that there's a national weight limit of 40 tons on our roads but that only applies to "heavy goods vehicles" Whereas buses are only restricted by the number of passengers they can carry. (a typical double decker bus will hold around 100 passengers). So, technically, a bus could potentially carry more weight than a Heavy Goods Vehicle, because a bus doesn't have any weight restrictions. Yet a bus driver isn't allowed to drive a heavy goods vehicle, even though he can (theoretically) carry more weight than a HGV driver.
That bus with it's seats removed would have still weighed in at about 12.5 tons empty so would have required a HGV licence to drive, but even then it would have to be reregistered as a HGV before it could be driven legally by a HGV licence holder. So as it stood, with those seats removed, there is NO licence in the UK that would allow it to be driven anywhere on public roads. Yet I could have towed it with another bus legally even though that's not something I'd want to do.
Wow. That’s crazy!
@@dpcrn Not really. Here in Illinois they have no problem doing it under "vehicle special construction". All Illinois wants is a road worthy chassis, and a coach portion that is equal to a decent RV with all the common standards. Many of these school bus conversions turn out to be piles of rolling junk. Some busses like mine that took three years to hand craft are well built machines. Worth the time and effort to do? Absolutely.
@@johnclamshellsp1969 My apologies, I was replying "Wow, That's crazy" to the reply from @kenfullman He was commenting about some strange rules in the UK.
@@dpcrn ahh no prob. However always handy news just in case. Also! As of June 26, 2023, the state of Vermont is no longer converting out of state titles for anyone doing a conversion.
My Skoolie (used to be a 78 passenger school bus is legally registered in PA as a 5 door hatchback. All you need to legally drive a privately owned bus is to have less than 6 seats. You can then have it converted to an RV registration once you add one of (I think 5) things. I believe it's a bed, water supply, bathroom, cooking surface, or power supply. My entire family (4 kids) my husband and I have lived in our fully converted bus for over 5 years. My youngest is now in college and moved there so my husband and I FINALLY have finished converting it so it sleeps just he and I. But it's been converted for all 5 years.
Interesting about those Illinois requirements. I once saw a VW Beetle with RV plates and for some reason I have my doubts it had all of those things.
I've heard about Vermont being used to license military vehicles that were restricted to off-road vehicles in other states. I'm not sure if you could transfer it over to your state after it's been entered into the DMV system in Vermont.
Back in '77 Florida's car registration was apparently disconnected from issuing a plate (tag) because I still had my car registered in Illinois but had a Florida plate. I was in the Navy and moved around a lot. And I still had a Pennsylvania drivers license at that point. So my license, registration and plate were from three different states.
Years ago I noticed that a lot of semi trailers were registered in Maine. I heard that the reason was that Maine had or has the lowest cost for registration at the time (or maybe it still does).
Maine is the best state
I know this will sound crazy but even California cargo trailers and semi trailers or 15 to $25 a year I don't know how much cheaper you get to that. Recreational trailers are another story has to do with length
My cousin had his motor home registered in Florida since he spent the winters there, but switched it to Maine where his house was because of the high cost of Florida insurance. Maybe it has something to do with that.
My car costs $22.50/month to insure. I live in rural Maine. Out of state residents are allowed to register cars here. Lots of people have been doing this, but states like Assachusetts and Road Island have been getting really maddd about it.
@@robertkeyes258 Wow. That's a fantastic price!
I work at the DMV in Vermont speculate all you want but the blame is squarely on that writer, she embarrased some people and it was over. obviously it was a open secret BUT 100% her news story is what shut us down. me and half my coworkers have reduced hours now and 10% of the workforce got permanently laid off.
oh please no fake news
Over inflated workforce then. Glad it was able to equalize
Sadly, I used Vermont to tag ten of my project cars that I am now driving. I did transfer the registrations once I got them into my own state. But in Pennsylvania there is no way that is even a 10th as easy to get an untitled vehicle titled. Vermont definitely made thousands of dollars off of me but it was well worth it.
I found a little too late. They were stopping this as I have four other wants to do but sadly I’m never gonna be able to do them now.
Why is it hard to get title for project cars elsewhere?
@@supercompooper they require a lot more proof that you own the car, and sometimes they simply refuse to do it entirely.
So for those of us who have done the loophole and now drive the vehicles, how long until we can’t? Can we keep renewing the registration? Does this void our current registration?
@@Gnarlee517you could just register in the correct state. It was basically the only way to legally tag vehicles, but once you got plates you can turn around and get them in any state. It also doesn't sound like they are going to stop renewals since that's not a form you have to send in that I'm aware (and almost every state allows you to renew with minimal checking, with the most they check being if it's insured in that state but you could literally switch the insurance for a day but most just want to make sure it's insured somewhere)
A mechanics lien will work in all 50 states if you know somebody with a small mechanics shop.
This is a great video lesson, Steve, thanks.
BTW, liked the old wood background better.
Don't worry, here in Maine, we still got you covered.
I owned a car in Montana, and after I moved to Idaho, I couldn't find the title. The time got away from me, and by the time I got around to applying for a duplicate title from Montana, Montana had moved their repository from Deer Lodge to Helena, and shredded old documents. The state had no record of my title anymore, so I could not get a duplicate. I did have the last registration, and took it to the local DMV here in Idaho to see what I could do. They let me apply for a bonded title, and said that if no one else \ comes along within three years with a claim to the car, I could remove the "bondedness" from the title, and have a clear title. That was my option, so I did it. During the process, they made me sign an affidavit stating that I will never again buy a car without a title (even though I hadn't), and stated that it was a one-time thing, as far as the state was concerned.
I would be interested in trying again, to see if the state actually enforces that, but I don't want to risk the money involved to buy the car in the first place, and then not be able to register or sell it. Has anyone else in Idaho been able to apply for more than one bonded title ever, or more importantly, in the last couple of years?
Darn. I was harboring a dream of buying up all new aftermarket parts and building a new Chevelle from scratch and using that loophole to register it.
You can probably still do it if you come up with a VIN that hasn't been completely "deleted" but otherwise doesn't exist anymore.
i figured this was going to happen, I had a number of friends start registering cars in Vermont all around the same time, like there was a huge surge. Had a feeling it was getting out of hand and someone would take notice.
Title less classic cars didn’t kill the VY Loophole. Since 2019 vehicle thefts have almost tripled, and the process was being used to title stolen cars.
This has been an open secret on the internet for 15-20 years. I registered a 1975 Honda Enduro this way in 2009, because I found an even older forum thread on the process.
If you can still do this if you LIVE in VT, then someone should start a business where they actually do a background check on each vehicle because there's a lot of us that have older cars and want to make them street legal again.
This process is very well known in the vintage VW community. I guess some of those abandoned cars just got a little cheaper, depending on where you live. When I buy a car without a title, I treat it as though it only has the value of its parts. If a title can be had eventually, that's fine. But it can be quite difficult to jump through all of the hoops.
A mechanics lien will work in all 50 states if you know somebody with a small mechanics shop.
@@mexicanspec almost nobody does though.
Almost everybody does. Who hasn't gotten their car fixed at a local shop?@@warrenpeas
@@mexicanspeccan you help me out with more details?
If you have a friend that has a mechanics shop he can do a mechanics lien and at the end the state will issue a new title to that vehicle. All of the rules and laws have to be followed according to your state.@@DADDYCOKE2012
In Ontario, we have a procedure. I've been thru it a couple of times. Notary, sworn statement, letter from oem dealer etc.
Interesting, in Alberta I don't even know what vehicle title is ...
Yup, everybody knew about this for years...ironically, in a similar vein, I put vintage, era-correct tags on 3 of my classic/vintage vehicles (with permanent registration) and when I moved across the country, I just changed the address on the registration. Best part? The vintage plates look almost identical to the same era of tags in the "New" state.
I thought about doing the loophole once but it felt like it could still be a hassle. I just went for a bonded title for an abandoned car.
I live in San Francisco, and there are many parts of town where people permanently park and live in their RV. I always wondered why so many were from Vermont.
WA is getting bad about his ever since they came out with a rule that a "residence" can not be towed, even if illegally parked. And many are.
I did this a few years ago with an old Honda motorcycle. Getting the Vermont plates was super easy and I rode it around with those for a while. However convincing my home states DMV to swap the registration and title to my state was a whole other thing. I think they had me do paperwork like I brought it in from another country. I'm sure I was what all the DMV people talked about at lunch that day.
we recently had to title a boat in Washington that didn't have a title previously. The process for that involves getting what amounts to a branded title that states "ownership in doubt" that lasts for 3 years.
We had an old school bus titled as an RV here in Wisconsin. The hoops we had to go through weren't too bad... There was a list of things that you could do and you had to do "x" number of them to qualify.
For ours, we installed a sink, shower, beds (4 of them), cupboards, repainted it non-school bus yellow, and there may have been some more but I don't really remember anymore.
I bought and sold out of state cars for a long time and wish I knew about the Vermont loophole. I either trailered them to my home state or left them in the state while I registered them and went back to get it. It was a hassle. How did I not know!!!
How have I not heard of this before?
“Everyone” knew about this loophole except you and I. 😔
This was an "open secret".
I wonder how this even worked. My then fiancé, now wife, had my car in MD while I was deployed. My car was registered in NJ at the time. One of her neighbors was cop and after a month, she had an official notice that the car has been in MD for over 30 days and must be registered in MD. I’m pretty sure her neighbor did that. Do other states not require the car to be registered in that state if it is kept there for a certain amount of time? I guess it only matters if someone can prove your car has been there that long.
I wish I had heard of this prior. I can't register JDM imports in my state because they hate testing JDMs so this would've been very beneficial.
Thanks for the word-up on The Autopian; just gave them a bookmark in my browser....the old Jalopnik lives on!
Might be a good video to talk about other alternatives now that this loophole is closed.
Anybody know of methods other than a bonded title?
Or maybe not such a good idea, or they will go away too.
This makes my old camper titles worth 10x more!
Let's be clear Vermont only stopped out of state registration if you got a amazing barn find you just need to move to Vermont for a few days register the car and get the plates and then move back to your home state and transfer the plates
Lol. You need an aunt that lives in Vermont that will let us use the address, and that will solve it
@ryurc3033 right a young man could start a business off that idea then sell you the titled car
I did this but I had purchased a used car in a private sale in Vermont and needed to drive in home. I kept the plate until my state sent me notice that I needed to register it that state.
Don’t worry Fam, South Dakota still got your back!
This opens the door for Vermont residents to set up purchases from out of state owners, then register the vehicle and sell it back, or sell it to any other non-resident.
I knew what this was going to be about when I saw the title.
I thought it was that one certain loophole to remaining a virgin which they closed
I did this (in Idaho!) at LEAST 25 years ago with an SUV I pulled out of a junkyard, although I did it through a "title service," which charged me $125 at the time, and I got back a VT title, which I could take to the ID DMV and transfer to myself.
Since this is no longer an option, at least in Idaho, if you have a vehicle you own, you can simply take it to the DMV, and the county vehicle inspector will do a VIN inspection, and then he (or she) does their little investigation, which takes a few weeks, and involves them researching the VIN, doing a last known owner search, posting some ads in the paper asking for the owner to come forth, and if no one does, they grant you a title. No bond necessary, and it doesn't cost you any extra, as this is basically part of the vehicle inspectors job description, although you can expect a fair amount of grumbling from them about it, because you're actually making them do work instead of just rubber stamping titles all day.
Well from the sounds of it, Georgia plans to take over that position.
Georgia is an utter nightmare for titles. Rebuilts from other states need inspections, any error at all requires notaries of correction on titles, cannot private sale salvage titles without losing the ability to transfer it to rebuilt etc. I literally just VT loopholed a WRX late last year because Georgia wanted me to pay their ridiculous ad Valorem tax twice to get the car into my name.
It's funny, when the news broke, and a link to the autopian was shared, i had NEVER heard of that site, so i was skeptical of the story. I had looked for other sources, but at the time, no other sources had talked about it (that I could find anyway, though i didn't really look that hard).
It's nice to know that site is a good source. I will keep that in mind for future stories
I lived in Rutland VT for a while, I knew the DMV was easier than most states but I didn't know you could do that? I knew you could register an older vehicle without a title, I only moved to VT because Oregon's DMV was insanely strict I had to quit a good job because the job was dependent on my DL being issued by OR. I worked for a company that worked indirectly with OHP and local police but that didn't matter they would not give me a DL because I didn't have a mortgage or a lease, living in a Motel/hotel is not good enough? Some States laws are so asinine .
Sorry about that.
Greetings from a true Vermonter, Steve!
Criminals and scammers ruin everything.
Is this not government over regulation ruining things? If it wasn't nearly impossible to register perfectly good vehicles, there wouldn't need to be a "loophole" to begin with.
The only criminals I see ruining things here are the state.
Alabama used to have similar lenient registration policies, with no title required for registration. It was a great public service for those who purchased vehicles from those who had lost the original titles before trying to sell their vehicles.
Whadaya wanna bet the registration fees in Vt. will triple next year…..
In 1977, I moved to a small town, in north Georgia, with a friend, for work. He had been working for this company for several months. He had brought his wife back to Florida to visit family so I rode back with them as I couldn't afford to drive my car.
This was early June. By the 4th of July weekend, I had gotten a few pay checks under my belt, my own place and gas was 59c a gallon so I paid my friend's cousin to drive me back to my parent's house in Florida to pick up my stuff and car. We arrived in Gainesville Georgia on July 5th. July 5th, 6th, 7th, I got stopped by 3 different cops asking what I was doing so far north in Ge4orgia with a Florida plate and that I had 10 days from arrival to change it. The 4th of July that year fell on a Friday. The 5th and 6th were a Saturday and Sunday. All days that the DMV were closed.
Years ago, I heard about a car in poor condition that was stolen. Returned by the State Police in a different State after it was towed. It was all tricked up, far better than new!
Any time you know someone who’s cheating a system and pretends it’s a victimless crime, remind them that people like them are the reason the rest of us can’t have nice things.
It’s almost like reducing prosecutions of felony theft, “reforming” the bail system, and normalization of crime had a negative affect on society…
Waste of time, though- as long as those people can have _their_ nice things, nobody else matters to them.
@@UTubeHandlesSuck They can’t have them, either. They get them taken away from everyone.
Thanks for mentioning The Autopian. I wondered where the team had landed.
Torch and Tracy actually founded it. Mercedes and Patrick George wound up there as well.
Nice!
You actually don’t need a cdl for semis and/or busses as long as they’re not used for commercial purposes. At least in my state.
In PA you need a Class B for any vehicle over 26,000lb and a Class A for any combination over 26,000lb. We have non commercial Class A and B but the process to get them is almost the same as a CDL.
That is pretty rare. Cdl is required for most class 6 and larger vehixles except actual Motor homes. (Sleeping, cooking, and sanitation facilities permanantly attached)
@@Darklor_WCF Nope
Hey, Steve! Thanks for the humorous parody of the Maryland state flag. I guess the message is one of the state's unofficial mottos: "Maryland is for crabs."
The only car trivium I know about my state of Md.: We don't have a DMV. We have an MVA.
Fred
Would you say I have a plethora of Vermont registered vehicles?
Si, el guapo!
There are going to be a lot of car dealerships that are going to be incredibly upset with this change. I would wager that things will change back in the next 5 years.
For several years in the navy. I drove a full size school bue ( painted white ) on my duty day. I've only ever had a regular driver's license.
What does this have to do with titling a personal vehicle?
@@obsidianjane4413 OK so you didn't watch the entire episode. He commented that a women reg. a full size bus in vermont where she should have needed a CDL. For me the Navy gave me a 2 ht driving test & issued me a license to drive a full size bus in any State in the USA
@@leofredette19 I did. Still has nothing to do with titling a vehicle. And you lied in your OP. You do have a bus license, not "only ever had a regular driver's license".
Think more, type less.
@@obsidianjane4413 it doesn't have to be approved by you, and it did relate to Steve's comments.
@@leofredette19 Ok if you want to think so. But it didn't to anyone outside your own head.
This is why you go to swap meets and find the guys selling dash plates with titles. ( Just be sure to use the correct rivets or mounting fastners. This is how many people make their hearses a station wagon. In Michigan it's pretty easy to register a hearse or converted school bus as a standard motor vehicle.
Is the $100 bill still a thing? I can’t find it
Ben's slipped between two of the blue law books on the lower left.
Looking at Steve, it’s on the left side lower set of blue books standing vertically between two books
Is it like a where’s Waldo?
I live in NY, 7 miles from the border with Vermont, and probably a third of all cars in town have Vermont plates, primarily to save money on insurance. Guess that's coming to an end.
Now talk about Mechanic's Lean and how its used for the same purpose in even more sketchy situations
I am a mechanic and have thought about buying an older car that I want to build and have thought about using this process to get a title if the vehicle in question does not have one or it is missing. It is more expensive than the VT loophole but definitely doable with the bill of sale.
Filing for title for abandonded property works similarly in MO. Certified letter to last known address of last registered owner & VIN check by state police & you're good to go
@@MrGamerholic It is not more expensive. The Vermont thing required you to pay sales tax so, depending on the vehicle, it could get quite expensive. The mechanics lien is searching for the owner, sending out certified letters and publishing it in a legal newspaper and you are done.
In 2010 I sold 4 T600 Tatraplans to a buyer in Czechoslovakia. I had title for only one, but Vermont facilitated obtaining titles for the other three. Off they went, back home. Thanks Vermont!
Love watching you from Australia Steve. When I lived in the the USA I just found it crazy and difficult to navigate the lifestyle. It is just too easy and comfortable back here. No stress like USA, Americans seem to be addicted to stress and drama.
Yes, you are right 😅 everyone acts like space alien overlords are making all the petty annoying rules and regulations so we have no possible way to change them. It’s ridiculous… hey everybody, we make the rules! 😂
Ben remains between Volumes IV and V of the OED.
Maine used to do, maybe still does, very low-cost (big-rig) trailer registrations on this same premise: “It’ll never put wear on our roads”.
Can you still register trailers in Vermont? This seems to be about cars.
I think Maine is the go to for trailers.
The law didn't really change they just require a vt address
About a decade ago I bought a Japanese market only 250cc 2-stroke motorcycle (Honda NSR250). It was legitimate, not stolen or anything, and it was just over the 25 year-old minimum for legal importation. But Japanese paperwork is...challenging, plus they only have 11 digit VINs instead of 17 digits. Solution: Register with VT, take the registration (which states that a title is not required) to the DMV in Illinois, confuse the DMV worker a bit with the short VIN, pay the exorbitant IL fees, and 8 weeks later receive a nice clean Illinois title (and Blackhawks vanity plates).
I'm so happy to hear this as it makes my job easier. I handle titles for a neighboring state and people would constantly be rejected for bad paperwork, go to vt for a title, and then come back to us thinking they'd get away with it. People are so effing annoying when it comes to cars.
Overregulation is so annoying when it comes to cars 😉
I mean if you think people being able to claim any vehicle they don't have a title on is theirs then I have a Maserati to sell you :3 you must be really smart
@@kazeinu0151 yeah. Thats exactly what i said
@@WN_Byers then you misunderstood me first and tried to be cheeky when you could have just kept that thought rattling around your two brain cells
@@kazeinu0151 Why would Vermont registration be rejected if it was legally done in their state. Are there not agreements between your state and that one to process each others documents?
I had no idea about the registration thing - Here I was thinking you were going to say they closed the loop on being able to legally pass on a double yellow line.
Agree why we cant have nice things. Wasnt a secret she shouldnt feel bad at all. Some people just wanna bitch
She should have kept her mouth shut,...
@@8000RPM. its never a good idea to uncover the loopholes & cheat codes etc.... but as a journalist thats her job. Word was out long b4 she wrote the article. Id put $$$ on that.
@@frankrizzo5155 Are you related to the Frank Rizzo who was Mayor of Philadelphia?
Can we just be honest about the REAL problem here and admit that it's not that Vermont had a "loophole", but that a loophole is even necessary in the first place. DMV's around the country make it far too difficult (and expensive) to register a vehicle to begin with. Too many laws, rules, and regulations and frankly, it shouldn't be that difficult. Especially in today's world of computers where checking a VIN and previous ownership should be easy. What has happened (and happens all too much in government) is tha everytime someone finds a way to circumvent the myriad of rules and regulations, the government creates new rules, and once people (criminals) find a way around them, they create even more. While well intentioned (it shouldn't be easy to register a stolen vehicle), it's also created the need for honest people to find an alternative. Further complicating the matter is the fact that our own government(s) have also used the need for these rules to bilk you out of your hard earned money. In short, when criminals and those with nefarious motives find a way around the rules, they create a situation where the cure is worse than the disease. We need to stop over-compicating the rules and processes for everyday people to register a car just to stop a few bad actors who will still find a way to circumvent them. You've got to ask yourself, what is worse...allowing a few bad guys to register vehicles that are stolen (or avoid taxes and fees), or making it damn near impossible for someone who's honest to get a title and registration? Plus titles and registrations shouldn't be a money making scheme for government. I'd rather take my chances on someone registering a stolen car than have nothing but headaches for something that should be a simple transaction and role of government in the DMV to begin with.
I guess y'all know down here in the southern Appalachian Mountains of GA we is a might more easy goin' when it comes to papers. They ain't hardly no paperwork you gotta have to trade cars. In the county I live in the law is, "If you can get in a car, crank it up and skedaddle under its own power in 10 minutes or less, that puts the retitle process into motion. Then, when you get home, put a tag on the back off your bass boat trailer, the Camaro on blocks in front of your trailer or, instead, an "Eat More Possum" tag can be used as a temporary until you get a tag you like.
Once you've done with that, then park the car behind your trailer, at a bootlegging joint or in the Piggly Wiggly parking lot. Return to where you left the car the next morning. If your new car is still there without a boot and no cops or security folks from the Piggly Wiggly are around the next day, then go on down to the courthouse, tell 'em what your done an make youre "X" where they show you or, if your edumicated, then write you're name or what your known as, like Digger, Scooter, Psycho, Cooter, Skeeter.... Your done! If you are unable to complete any step you need, then if you know the sheriff, give him a drank of likker and he's obliged to push it through for you. If you don't know the sheriff or one of his cousins, then you'll need to take a whole jar of likker to the sheriff (some will prefer homemade crack for a friendly touch) then he'll push your new title right through. It's the law! Lordy! Ain't Georgie a damn good state to be in? Drive your new pickup'em up truck with pride. I shore do love Merica an all them states in the south that stuck together to win the War of Yankee Aggression.
And boy's take Ole Billy Robert's advice, "Don't never loan your chainsaw, your wife or your pickup truck to nobody! If you do, somebody's bound to throw a rod in 'em."
Alabama is another state that it is easy to get a license plate. My daughter, who lives there, says it doesn't need a windshield or doors. There is a picture of a Porsche 917 race car (not legal to drive on the street ANYWHERE without serious mods.) in Europe that had an Alabama tag on it. Belonged to a Count Rossi.
My mom had a sign that my grandmother bought her for our kitchen. It said "theres two options for dinner, take it or leave it!" It hung on the backsplash behind our stove for two decades until they finally built a new house (well after we moved out and stayed gone, for obvious reasons😂)
In Arkansas we also have bonded titles as a thing. Myself I've never used it but my brother and my dad, along with some neighbors growing up, have all done this.
Yup I did a bonded title in Arkansas myself I lost the title didn't finish putting it in my name the bonded title was easy
@@daninthedirt9449 my brother did the same thing, lost a title before getting it transfered. That's how you know ya have too many irons in the fire 🤣
@@goosenotmaverick1156 🤣🤣🤣
My Dad bought a (small) school bus when I was a kid and did a camper conversion on it. Never occurred to me that he might have needed a CDL. Only had about half of the 'motorhome' requirements.
You can probably still do it to some extent in any state if you do the following.
Register a business in the particular state with loose rules then title the vehicle to the business, later you can transfer the ownership to yourself or another person.
You need an address to send the documents to. Most people don't want to maintain an address in another state.
@@mexicanspec there are Shell warehousing businesses that offer an office address and mail forwarding.
@@anomamos9095 I know, I used one in Oregon and registered over 100 cars from my person collection, but that was back in the '90's. At the time you couldn't beat $30.00 for 2 years which is a nickel a day per car.
What happened to the "Law Dog" sign?
California used to issue non expiring drivers licenses. My son’s grandmother had one. She was 60 and it still had her photo of when she was in her 20’s!!
Steve showing some love to Maryland 🦀💕
You don't need a CDL to drive a school bus unless you're Hauling commercial passengers
Damn.
Well thankfully my friend found that title for my 1946 project car. I was just about to use the Vermont loophole. Still a sad day.
HuH? In my state any vehicle 'principle' garaged for six months or more had to have this states registration (and Taxes), only recently is the state cracking down on Florida Registrations.