How The Byrds and The Beatles Reinvented Rock - Vinyl Friday #78
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- Опубликовано: 15 июл 2024
- I thought we were taking a break from The Beatles?!
Wellllll...you see, what happened is that I started out thinking about The Byrds. Then I started googling The Byrds. Then I took a LOT of notes about The Byrds. And at the end of it all, I realised it was all still very much about The Beatles. As their stories are so closely linked, I thought it was important to tell their tales together (even if it deviates a little from our regular weekly format).
Speaking of The Beatles (when am I ever not?), we'll be jumping back into the Revolver Odyssey a fortnight from today. If you're new to that party, you can catch up here: • Vinyl Friday: The Revo...
For those of you with a burning desire to generally support what I do, I'm here to help you along in that journey: www.buymeacoffee.com/fathommu... (but no pressure, friends☺️)
Happy Friday, folks!
0:00 Hello!
0:42 What the album sounds like
2:43 Who are The Byrds?
4:53 How The Byrds became The Byrds
6:02 Who are The Beatles? (lol)
6:56 Cross-pollination
14:22 Fifth Dimension and its sub-genre progeny
23:54 Favourite moments
25:33 Goodbye!
Want to look at pictures of what I'm working on? / fathommusicnz
Interested in purchasing music I've made? fathomnz.bandcamp.com
Fathom albums "The World to Breathe" and "Modern Reflections, Vol. 1" are also available on all streaming platforms. Tweed's album "High Brow Blues" is also ALSO available on all streaming platforms!
Thanks for your sharing your attention with me. :)
#beatles #thebeatles #thebyrds #vinyl #vinylcommunity #musicreview #musicreactions
What bands had the greatest influence on rock music today? Pontificate at your leisure, friends!
I'm not sure, but really, you have to think of the founders of rock music.
You could say "The Beatles", but you also need to think about who influenced them.
For example, Elvis Presley, Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Buddy Holly, Eddie Cochran, Carl Perkins, Muddy Waters The Isley Brothers etc...
No one individual can be solely to credit as the most influential, but multiple artists should be acknowledged for their innovation and influence in the music industry.
:)
The Beatles are the Alpha and Omega of Rock Music. Their influence continues in several genres of rock. You also have Led Zepplin and Iron Maiden influencing hard rock and metal. Van Halen spawned legions of rock/metal guitar players who imitated the style of EVH. Some would even argue that the greatest influence on modern music was the sonic genius of The Rutles. 😁
elvis costello, in the 8 days a week movie, describes how your feelings about a new beatles direction could change from 'what are they thinking ' to something you couldn't live without in a few days. the beatles changed rock not through making declamatory statements or insisting on one memorable sound but by getting inside heads. music, rock if you will, functioning as the catalyst for perceptual change.
one of the biggest challenges you can confront in music is to listen to the white album front to back. a devourer of algorithms, pointing to impossible places and possible imaginings.
A further offshoot of psychedelic rock is hard rock and heavy metal and all the various genres that sprang from them. There is no genre of modern popular music that doesn't owe something to these two bands and Dylan.
Beatles&Stones across the pond, and Jimi'sExperience&Doors&Heart on this side. 'nuff said?
I'm 76 , and the Byrds are my favorite band , thanks for doing this !
what a lovely early birthday present this episode was! the high flying byrds are one of my favorite groups of the 60s
Even included a wee Pattie Boyd cameo! Happy birthday :)
Im a poet and didnt realize it. I love your show!!!!
Thank you Nancy for the music history lesson!❤
Very insightful analysis! "I See You" and "Eight Miles High" are just brilliant to me for bringing jazz into rock through the channels the Byrds did---those atonal harmonies and chaotic lead guitar solos you're pointing out add tension and excitement to those songs. As insufferable as he most certainly must have been, Croz had anamzing musical brain on his shoulders.
The "rock math" part got me thinking about when Bob played with ace guitarist Mike Bloomfield at Newport in '65 and how revolutionary that must have sounded at the time.
Now THIS is the type of RUclips content I enjoy! ❤
as an old person and huge Byrds fan, I think you did a great job of detailing how the Byrds influence a lot of other music. Thanks
My favorite episode yet. I love how you track cross-pollination via rock math. Turn up the bass starting “8 Miles” - SO huge, you can hear the miked drum heads sympathetically vibrating in the right channel
Wow. Congratulations. You definitely nailed it. !
Statement: Roger McGuinn of the Byrds is the godfather of the Travelling Wilburys. McGuinn's guitar-sound influced George Harrison, who inspired Jeff Lynne; Tom Petty was inspired by the Byrds, and Dylan enjoyed the artistic and commercial benefits of McGuinn arranging, covering, and scoring hits with his compositions. ... And EVERYBODY loves Roy Orbison. Discuss 😊
Actually Roger went out to purchase a Rickenbacker 360/12 after seeing George Harrison in “A Hard Day’s Night” with his Rickenbacker 360/12. The Beatles started the folk rock movement, they mention this in the documentary “Echo In The Canyon.” George Harrison was using the Rickenbacker 12 String a year before the Byrds even recorded “Mr. Tambourine Man” in January 1965. The Beatles + Bob Dylan = The Byrds. John Lennon had a dream of a man on a flaming pie that said “From this day on, you’re Beatles with an ‘A’
Great stuff, Fathom! Like you, I love the Beatles and really like the Byrds. The cross pollination of ideas from Dylan, Byrds and Beatles is always fun and interesting. Another you might do in the future is the influence of Revolver on the Brian Wilson Beach Boys and Pet Sounds and how that inspired Sgt. Pepper.
Some new insights about some bands and their recordings that I have known and loved for so many years… and also, they among others have been mayor influence on my own music! Splendid❤
Wonderful video-and right on. Thank you. 😃
Paradoxically, The Byrds are one of the most seminal yet also one of the most underrated bands in rock history. Interestingly, an online article appeared a few days ago in which the late George Harrison was quoted as saying The Byrds were one of the influences for his "Here Comes the Sun."
One thing I've often wondered about is Harrison and McCartney were visiting The Byrds in the studio when they were working on Gene Clark's awesome "She Don't Care About Time," which was the B-side for the "Turn! Turn! Turn!" single. For the song's middle, McGuinn seamlessly added this wonderful (and strangely fitting) lead of Bach's "Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring," which one rock historian cited as the first use of baroque in modern rock music. Months later, The Beatles released the heavily classical music-influenced "Eleanor Rigby." Coincidence? Maybe or maybe not. Maybe another example of how one band was influenced by another and made the result something new and uniquely their own.
Also, McGuinn has been quoted as saying that in 1963 he heard The Beatles and noticed that they were using folk passing chords in some of their songs. From that, he started playing folk songs with a Beatle beat in some of the NY clubs. That might be claimed as the nascent birth of The Byrds. In strictly musical terms, The Beatles perhaps influenced The Byrds a whole lot more than Bob Dylan did, with Dylan influencing them more in songs themselves. (Dylan did visit the Byrds not once but twice in early 1965 before "Mr. Tambourine Man" was released to hear firsthand what The Byrds were doing with his songs.) The Byrds didn't just cover Dylan's songs: they adapted them and re-interpreted them. That, IMVHO, is also high art.
Dylan, who had already been leaning toward rock, perhaps influenced by the earlier Animals recording of "House of the Rising Sun" in 1964, may have been totally pushed over to rock by The Byrds early work with his songs. During the recording of Dylan's Highway 61 Revisited, Al Kooper or Mike Bloomfield is quoted as saying Dylan first wanted the album to sound like the Byrds. Fortunately, it didn't, and Dylan, like great artists do, took the influences and made it something uniquely his own. That's the genius of Dylan, The Beatles, The Byrds, and countless others who helped make rock music an art.
Of course, you have to add in The Searchers, The Everly Brothers, and The Beach Boys (and, of course, a touch of Bach) to the genesis of The Byrds. And, there is also The Zombie's early "jazziness" for influencing The Byrds to even attempt the John Coltrane and Ravi Shankar-inspired "Eight Miles High," something McGuinn has acknowledged.
The cross-pollination of musical styles in the mid-60's is just a sonic joy to behold and still listen to.
The Animals' "House of the Rising Sun" was based on Dylan's acoustic version on his first album, which borrowed Dave van Ronk's arrangement.
It's really interesting how they all got inspired by each other...
Thanks for this - I was 17 in '66 (my favorite rock year?) when I discovered Fifth Dimension. It's still one of my favorite albums, especially the elegant covers Wild Mt. Thyme & John Riley. (I went back, bought their first 2 records, and courted my future ex-wife to the songs of Gene Clark). And as a guitarist I became obsessed with 8 Miles High
Excellent video. Very well done. I will just say that It’s fascinating to me that when you play multiple clips of songs from different artists, those that are from the Beatles, seem to be absolutely luminescent. Even very brief examples excite. Magical. Also I’ll do a shoutout because I can’t help myself. Back in the early 90’s there was a very fine group out of Green Bay called the Stringbeans that did wonderful covers of the Byrds. Just one of thousands of those talented bands that fall short of fame.
You’re really great at delving into the essence of these acts and their influences, coming and going!
@01:47 THAT’S A CURTAIN AND NOT WALLPAPER?? my life is a lie
Thanks!
I was shocked to once again be reminded Rubber Soul was released in 1965. It sounds much more modern, like at least from 1968. And the fact that I can call that three year period "much more modern" just shows you how much music evolved in that short time, mainly through the Beatles themselves. Obviously other bands were going new paths as well, but the Beatles are just something else entirely. They were a kind of short lived band but when they lef the whole music landscape was forever changed
Thank you for this. I like the musicality without going into specific chords and keys. I like your singing of the chords and the keys. Found randomly in my feed. Great!
24:32 that song made me think about how it would be to listen to this album in vinyl for the first time (I've only listened to albums in CD or streaming) that song ends and now you have to flip to b-side... The silence Eight Miles High must be intense, heartbreaking
The silence before Eight Miles High*
Fun fact: John Denver was a member of the Chad Mitchell Trio early in his career.
🤯
An insightful look at how the biggest bands/artists of the 60s interacted and influenced each other. I knew about The Beatles inspiring The Byrds and vice versa but I wasn't familiar with the other inspirations that drove the evolution of The Byrds. Fascinating stuff!
You left out the "jangley effect" of Liverpool's The Searches !
Really good indeed.
Excellent Music Channel! 👍👍🎬🎬
I used to listen to the first side of this Lp on repeat.
I grew up with Eight Miles High on my sister's 45 collection.
Great album.
Younger Than Yesterday is even more adventurous in the Psychedelic realm and is my favorite from The Byrds.
Sweetheart Of The Rodeo is a completely different animal.
Kudos to the research correspondent Nancy!
I was all of 10 to 12 during that era, and always just took the evo of music at that time for granted... Thanx
Great analysis of the Byrds & the Beatles in 1966. Both bands combined Jazz & eastern Raga into new genres of music. The Fifth Dimension album by the Byrds also had metaphysical, spiritual lyrics that would influence the Beatles with Revolver. Psychedelia started with these albums.
"I'm a poet and I didn't realize..." is one of the funniest lines I've heard in a long time! Absolutely brilliant! Your videos are not only informative but fun to watch. Keep up the great work!
I think McGuinn might just be the most underrated of the 60s giants
It's a bit weird hearing someone talk about Sweetheart Of The Rodeo and The Flying Burrito Brothers without mentioning Gram Parsons even once. And if you listen to A Love Supreme you'll find that the main guitar line of Eight Miles High was not just inspired but taken directly from it. Played by Roger McGuinn (and pretty good considering the guitar type) not the supposedly jazzfan David Crosby. But sorry i don't want to be negative, just my initial thoughts at those moments. The video as a whole is very insightful shows a lot of knowledge interesting thoughts and is very entertaining. I enjoyed it a lot. Great work.
Thanks for this episode, I really enjoyed it. I've always loved "Fifth Dimension" and never understood the lack of love and recognition this album gets for I've always considered it a great album. While discussing "Sweetheart of the Rodeo" and its influences, you've left out the late great Gram Parsons who probably was really the driving force behind that album. Keep up the great work. Cheers.
9:58 the first time i knew about David Crosby, i was just a young beatle fan in 2015, "the cute guy called David". Luckly i started to listen to the byrds in 2017, i love them
Danke!
Bitte schoen!
I haven't enjoyed maths until now.
Great video! I’m actually in a Byrds cover band called Magic Swirling Ship. We usually open with 8 Miles High.
You mentioned Terry Callier. Nancy, you must check out his music, especially his albums What Colour Is Love, I Just Can't Help Myself, Occasional Rain, Lookin' Out and Timepiece. I am sure you will love his music. It is wistful, romantic, groovy, soulful and jazzy.
Ah, and we have with the Byrds' song I Wasn't Born To Follow a music that could be described as raga psychedelic country and western. 😉
Great analysis Nancy. Keep up the good work.
I do listen to and love Terry Callier's music - good call! Thank you!
I never saw any musical connection between The Byrds and The Smiths before, although I’ve sung along to many of both groups’ songs, ( maybe I should’ve. )That was an enjoyable revelation! Thanks. 😊
Much closer connection between the sound of the Byrds and eighties group, The Pretenders (and they have Chrissie Hynde too which makes them the winners!).
I can't believe that I forgot The Pretenders!
Whew!😅 That was quite the math/music/history syllabus, Ms. Fathom. You should have been wearing your professor's mortarboard! Seriously, it was very educational and must have taken a ton of thinking and preparation. Thanks for all the effort on our behalf.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for this video. It always warms my heart when I see younger generations discover and appreciate 1960s music. Besides being a fan of The Beatles and The Byrds I also love The Monkees. I fell in love with Monkees as a young boy, and they're the reason I wanted to be in a band, and The Beatles made me want to be a songwriter. Could you do a video on The Monkees? If you have done one already, let me know so that I may watch it. Thank you again. You have a great channel.
Thank you! I'll see if the local record store has any Monkees.
Thanks for sharing! Had to go back and listen to The Byrds, one of my favorite bands, when I started streaming this. Cute cat, too! Shawn R., Mo-Mutt Music/Sacred & Secular (and "cat dad")
"I See You" sounds like it has similar chords to Van Morrison's song "Moondance"
I would maintain that the first to mix jazz and rock were the Zombies with their single She's Not There in 1965. Not as influential maybe, but predating 5th Dimension.
Good call!
Excellent episode. I want to check out some of those new bands you refer to. I'm still in 1967 when it comes to music. Even though I too find this album a mishmash (eg., what was "captain soul" about?), I always thought the entire package -- along with the cover art, was one of the most cinematic albums ever -- with the orchestrations and the storytelling, along with the overriding chaos of the Coltrane influence. I Come To Stand At Every Door is the perfect lead in to Eight Miles High. I always wondered if Bowie was influenced by this album when it cmae to his space oddity/spiders from mars phases. Thanks for this reappraisal of a gem in music.
On a Yesterday's Paper video recently, it featured a 1967 music reivew McCartney gave of the Byrds' follow-up "So You Wanna Be A rock n Roll Star" where he bashed it for not being inventive enough into new areas. Whereas he was coming up with Sgt. Peppers, he saw that single of the Byrds as a rehash, I guess ignoring Hugh Masekela's horns. I wonder what McCartney thought of "Sweetheart of the Rodeo?" lol
You asked your cat if he likes the Byrds :)
Mine even tries to chirp to them, he likes them so much
Very interesting to hear about the album release timeline
Fathom Radio, my first video. I learn a lot from you.
How do you reference jangle pop and not mention REM.
It must have been awful for the other great bands of the 60s. Like the Byrds and Brian Wilson. They put out a masterpiece... and the the Beatles put out an album that smashes it out of the park!
The Beatles seemed to influence everyone 🤣
But in all seriousness Dylan influence on the Beatles really shows in albums like Beatles for Sale through Rubber Soul where the lyrics can get more introspective and dark especially through John's songwriting during this period
Mr Tambourine Man album by the Byrds is very Rubber Soul even though it be similar sounding to Help!
Beach boys! Sloop John b was a solid contribution to folk rock I would say
Sorry Fathom, if there was a mutual inspiration or even competition it was between the Beatles and the Beach Boys.
¿Por qué no los dos?
@@fathommusicnz In those days the Byrds were not important enough to be an inspiration for the Beatles. They had one hit - ok, then they had a second smaller one and that was the end of it. THe Beach Boys on the other hand had a very special style and some really new colours in their music. Good Vibrations and God Only Knows were songs on eye-level with the Beatles and Paul and John admired Pet Sounds. - Please think of it: How many Byrds songs will be remembered in - let´s say - 20 or 30 years. I bet it will be their two hits, that´s it. The BB on the other hand leave us a legacy of countless hits, a unique choir-sound and very diverse arrangements. (By the way, I conduct a choir and I arranged Do It Again for them, as it´s just an uplifting, good mood-song and a great contrast to pieces by Bach, Brahms etc. - They all love it and sing it with smiling faces.)
The Byrds get very little credit for anything it seems but yea Beatles and Byrds did not invent rock like Howlin Wolf and Chuck Berry did but they surely did add a vast amount to it ..
Sugar + Gravel = Rock Candy
can't believe you're asking a cat if it likes birds... ah you mean BYRDS.
it's a good video. I don't see why big interesting claims can't be made and reinvigorate what our perceptions are about the timelines of modern rock etc. lots of influential artists in history but when you look at the byrds debut and even include the dylan factor is there really anything that sounds like help (the song) before help. it's mesmerizing. i've just seen a face throwing in folk country pop in one mind-blowing elegant succinct song. the byrds, eight miles is fine i like some of the poppy stuff ( here it comes again?) but generally they sound derivative, their sound one sound.
postscript i've reread war and peace 1,358 pages you must read before you head for the takeway around the corner.
I do hope I'll get to do Help one day...
Excellent insight. BTW - my own idea and I wonder if anyone else would think I'm not crazy. -- I think Eight Miles High is a swipe at the London music scene. Drugs too.
"Nowhere is there warmth to be found / Among those afraid of losing their ground / Rain gray town, known for its sound -- Round the squares, huddled in storms / Some laughing, some just shapeless forms / Sidewalk scenes, and black limousines / Some living, some standing alone"
Sounds like just an awful place to be. By any chance was that written when they were on tour in England? Just my thoughts.
You're certainly on the right track - it was inspired by their flight to London and their time there!
First comment! :D
(Dylan + Byrds) (Byrds + Dylan) is what you call a noncommutative relation - very important in quantum mechanics! 😉
I love this.
Greetings from the UK-ENGLAND.....I'd hardly call any of those bands "Rock" as people tend to use that term for virtually everything non Rock oriented,mean can you honestly call Bob Dylan Rock music ?....of course not.