Did Brian Jones Help Write "Eight Miles High" by The Byrds?
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- Опубликовано: 24 авг 2024
- August, 1965.
The Byrds fly to the UK for their first British tour. It turned out to be a pretty controversial tour and quite disastrous. More or less around that time, Gene Clark wrote "Eight Mies High" whie hanging out with Brian Jones. Did Brian Jones help write the song? Watch...
Wow. Finally someone had something positive to say about Brian. Still he's my favourite Stone. Brought lots of unique sounds to so many Stones tracks.
Definitely the most unique of the group in the early days
Yes! Thank you. I have written a couple of positive things about my experience of back then and that I was a Brian fan, only to be blasted nastily by potty mouthed children of the internet.
Brian had immense talent. Completely capable of writing a song
@doubleheadergr Brian added so many tasty,unique musical ideas to the early Stone records, especially Between The Buttons and Beggars Banquet.
Brian added so much character to their early singles.
I’m the Stones are my band and Jones is my fave. I have a passion for him and take every opportunity to learn new things. I’ve heard this before but it’s great to see it shared. Brian was a true artist and so influential. Yeah he was flawed (who wasn’t in their 20s, especially when you are on top of the world) but so much of rhetoric about him, was offside. He founded the greatest rock n roll band in the world, helped shape their blues based sound, named the band, gave them their early style and swagger, helped write songs, contributed greatly to the sound with various instrumentation, had a great look, hung with great like Dylan and Hendrix, contributed to other artists songs like Nico, Hendrix, Beatles, went to Africa and recorded the Master Musicoans of Joujouka being one of the first to bring music of the 3rd world to the west, launched the rock n roll couple vibe and so much more. All the while, he battled his own demons and the fury of Mick, Keith and Andrew (marginalizing him, taking his girl, etc). No doubt he made mistakes, but as Bill Wyman said “Brian deserves a pass as he paid the ultimate price”.
The latest swing at Brian, his exclusion from the Royal Mail Rolling Stones upcoming stamp release. Somehow I feel Mick and Keith are behind this.
Sorry for the rant, but long love Brian
ya i read about that and a real slap in the face to Brian
I only listen to Jones Stones..
I missed brian&Mick Taylor on stamps
Sones fan from beginning and Brian my Fav but he was weak mentally and not suited to fame! He did it to himself, self destructed
there was a book written years ago, that told one B of how Brian was trying to clean up and re join the Stones, the drowning was shown to be murder as Brian was a world class swimmer. I wish I had a copy but long since out of print. Mick n Keith paid for what happened RIP Brian, Mr. Stone
Poor Brian just couldn’t get a songwriting credit anywhere!
Maybe some reasons why????
Except on the famous Rolling Stones Rice Crispies advert.
@@pcno2832 He did get that one. Lol. He wrote two more in 1964 that the Stones recorded but a private collector owns those and has never released them publicly.
He's part of the Nanker Phelge writing credits.
@@TheBrianJonesResource You mean the Nanker/Phelge that Mick and Keith has changed to Jagger/Richards except for the instrumentals? I might add that there are no lyrics in the instrumentals but yet Mick gets a credit. Like Ruby Tuesday where Mick could be sailing and get a songwriting credit. It’s amazing! Brian comes up with a great guitar part on the Last Time and he gets nothing.
Sad to hear that The Byrd’s were so unprofessional during their UK tour. The British bands (Beatles, Stones, The Who, etc.) honed their acts for years before they came to the US. As for The Byrds, they weren’t fully cooked before the toured.
Thank you for this upload. Some hilarious "Spinal Tap" moments here regarding the Byrds first visit to England. Crosby: "I wonder if people realize how tired we are" with a straight face. Gotta love it.
That's Crosby (before jail time) in a nutshell. Other people? Huh?
All this slagging off of the Byrds has forced me to put pen to paper. IMO they were one of the greatest American bands of the 60's . Their first 5 albums are all terrific filled with excellent songs other than their hit singles. The sound they got is quite appealing, no? Maybe their folk rock style is not your cup of tea but there's no denying their talent and place in music history.
I agree. One of my all-time favourite bands.
Yes!!! I am still stunned when I hear the Byrds' early hits. Their vocal harmonies & musicianship are breathtaking. Long live the Byrds!
Im not the biggest fan but I respect them. Eight Miles High is truly an incredible song
They had some real good songs
totally agree! Those first 5 albums are magnificent.
Really impressive research, footage, editing and presentation! I always look forward to every new video from you.
Thanks!
Couldn't agree more. Best place to be on RUclips....very cool and groovy. Like being in a time machine every time. 🎸
@@YesterdaysPapers I don't think Brian Jones had anything to do with it I have never heard Rodger McGuinn mention a thing about it
@@YesterdaysPapers I thought Ron Wood was in the creation
The problem with the early Byrds was they never paid their dues as a live act so those early tours were dreadful. They got a record contract and had massive success right off the bat. They were mostly solo artists originally. Even playing electric guitars was new to them. I don't think Chris Hillman had ever played bass before he joined. He was a bluegrass mandolin player!!
and they never caught the worm
Hillman became one the top rock bass players
*@Tom Carl* Sure...they never payed their dues and LA blasé.......they were a brilliant disfunctional studio band from the word go.
Maybe they never should've toured Europe but they wanted to see London and the Beatles , they were too LA laid back to bother with the usual cliché stage theatricks , which in itself was somewhat daring.
They were good enough for The Beatles, Stones and Dylan.......It says enough about Hillman the mandolin player ,how inventive his bass playing was on those 60s albums.
@@polar199 Good one!!
Hence the song, so you want to be a rock and roll star.
Eight Miles High includes a lyrical nod to the Small Faces.
I read a quote from some British guy who was involved in the tour. He was greatly frustrated by the Byrds' indifference to everything and claimed that they spent all of their time in the hotel room smoking marijuana and staring at these colored glass balls on the coffee table. So, that might be a reason for their blase attitude. But, without a doubt, the Byrds had not gone through a time when they played several shows a night at the Cavern or Hamburg's Star Club (like the Beatles) so they had never been forced to become tight. When they recorded "Turn, Turn, Turn" in the month following the British tour, it would take 77 takes for them to get one suitable version to release.
Yes it took a few takes, but what a record.....also it should be noted the original band hardly ever rehearsed, however the McGuinn/White band of the early 70's was one of the greatest live acts in the world.
Hendrix smoked pot all day long most days and he sure wasn't dull onstage
@@Cincinnatus1869But Jimi played a 'veritable plethora' of gigs on the chitlin' circuit before his 'overnight' fame.
Truly a great band with a unique sound .
To be honest, I kind of feel sorry for a lot of the bands that were around at that time. The Stones and The Beatles had such an electrifying stage presence, it set the bar very high for their contemporaries, even all these years later there has never been quite the same hysteria. I love The Byrds' version of "Mr Tambourine Man", Dylan's original was great, but The Byrds really brought that song to life ... in my opinion anyway.
Great video, it's always great to learn more about Brian, and as always, the background music is lovely 🎸
Thanks, Sophie!
@@YesterdaysPapers 😊💖
Preferred Dylan”a version myself as The Byrd”a version only contained two verses and Dylan”a had all five, giving a fuller picture.
But I did like their stuff and had a few albums such as the Mr Tambourine Man album, Turn! Turn! Turn! and Sweetheart of the Rodeo.
They were good albums and they could have maybe gone on longer but Gene got treat badly though he certainly didn’t help his own cause by refusing to tour.
I know what you mean but in the context of the time.... If you look at pre-rock and roll then musical acts could sometimes be over-smarmy and fawning to their audiences but there was no doubt that the audience appreciated an artist making an effort to entertain them. In rock 'n roll the artist might be "cooler" but for the most part still came across as wanting to please/thrill/move their audience. Even at the time The Byrds toured the UK, The Small Faces, The Who, The Animals, The Kinks, Manfred Mann, The Hollies and many more were all pleasing an audience in their own way. The audience could feel their enthusiasm and, although they might have been uncomfortable admitting it, all the big groups at the time were, at heart, entertainers.
If The Byrds came along being self-absorbed, uncommunicative and appearing not to care whether the audience had a good time and were getting their money's worth then I'm not surprised that they were received poorly. The audience which didn't appear to mind being ignored and short-changed came later.
@@johnnhoj6749 I agree. Also, I wonder if that by following Sonny and Cher, who I assume really entertained the audience, the Byrds were a letdown due to their more low-key, laconic style.
McGuinn was late because he was having dinner with Paul McCartney 6:17 🤣🤣🤣
The Byrds have quite a handful of masterpieces, but my absolute favourite
is '' My Back Pages ''. How I adore that version of Dylan's classic!
Thanks for another great video, Yesterday's Papers.
Thanks, Kat. I love the Byrds' version of "My Back Pages", too. Great song, beautiful rendition.
@@YesterdaysPapers 🤗🤗🤗👍👌
Well, can you blame him? The tour wasn't going all that well and, despite the lack of professionalism on McGuinn and the band's part, dinner with Paul was the more attractive (and definitely stoned) option.
On July 30, 1966, The Kinks were hours late for a gig in Pinhoe, Exeter because they wanted to watch England play West Germany in the World Cup, instead - which England won, 4-2.
Because they showed up late, and due to contractual factors, they got half-way into their third song and the power was shut off. Show over. Goodnight, folks.
@@total.stranger Good old times.👍👍👍
That's my favorite of theirs too. Second place is their cover of Carole King's "I Wasn't Born To Follow". Such a gorgeous version.
I interviewed Gene back in 1983 about this and he confirmed that he shared what he had with Brian. Who knows.
Wow! Imagine that. 👍🙏
Very confused informations and maybe trying to give them some publicity????
@@Methilde Where is the confused information? If Gene said Brian contributed to writing the song then maybe you should accept the fact that maybe Brian did.
@@ovalvox7888 As you say "maybe",
@@Methilde Gene said he collaborated with Brian. Sounds like a contribution to me. Even if Brian only gave him ideas. Brian really didn’t care if he got a credit.
Have to feel for Brian Jones. If he really did help writing Eight Miles High, he should have gotten the credit. Even if he didn’t want it. Right is right. Even within his own band, he didn’t get the credit he deserved. There were a lot of Jagger-Richards songs that could and should have been Jagger-Richards- Jones.
Exactly - IF he did - IF
Well said !
Gene quotes posted by a member of the Steve Hoffman forum:
"But Brian was always real friendly. So he and I and Michael started hanging out together. I remember we were up in the hotel room. We ordered dinner one night and we were all sitting there eating a coupla steaks, talking and having a couple of scotches, and we started talking about William Burroughs. And somehow I just got this idea - it came into my mind - I don't know how the conversation led to it or anything like that, but all I know is that I started scribbling down the poetry, y'know. And Brian said 'what're you doing?' And I said 'this' [he mimes showing him], and he looks at it and he reads a little bit of it, and he says 'that's pretty good, you ought to work on that!' And then, I think... I worked on it kinda in private for - gosh, maybe about two weeks or something - almost every night in the hotel or something like that.... But the original idea came, of course, out of Brian Jones, but he didn't know it. He never even got to know it. At the time he probably didn't halfway remember having the conversation, you know what I'm saying...?'"
***************************
"I had an idea for some lyrics and wrote them on a piece of paper during the conversation with Brian. Later on I found them in my jacket pocket on the tour bus. I took my guitar and started making up a melody for it. I pretty much completed the song and played it for McGuinn and Crosby, and they really liked it. There were a lot of images I got from thinking and remembering things we'd done on the English tour. Actually, I started the thing before we got to England, and finished it when we got back. We were listening to a lot of Coltrane and Shankar. I felt that the arrangement idea McGuinn came up with alone deserved co-writer credit on it. Crosby, as well, came up with some of the lyrics. I kinda felt that all three of us wrote the song."
*******************************
"I wrote all the words (to Eight Miles High) except for one line that David wrote (Rain grey town), and then Roger arranged it, basically, so I had to part something with those guys. I decided that I wasn't going to get a single out of this deal, because I'd already written so many songs with this group that they're gonna grab up the singles for their own stuff, you know so I split it with them so I could get a single. That and they really did help me write it, too. But one of the problems we had by the release of the second album was the animosity growing amongst the group. Especially about me, because I was making a lot more money than anybody else from the royalties."
In many ways, Gene and Brian were kindred souls. Both were doomed in a way. Both were brilliant. And both were ‘pushed’ out of the bands they helped create.
This song is strangely beautiful. An amazing track to kick off a trip!
Thats cool that Gene readily admits that Brian helped ✍ the song. Got a second shot of royalties when Roxy Music did a decent cover on Flesh & Blood.
It all turned out well for all involved. The Byrds created a unique blend of Raga, Blues, Folk, Country, and Psychedelia. In regard to total musicianship, The Rolling Stones were at their zenith with Brian. It's truly great to know that Brian lent a hand to creating one the quintessential tune of the 1960s ("Eight Miles High"). That particular tune has a lot of staying power since a plethora of bands have covered it over the years. I believe that Cream was inspired by "Eight Miles High" when they (Cream) recorded "Dance the Night Away" (my favourite Psychedelic tune). Once again, many thanks YP, for a very informative video. You're keeping great artists and sounds alive in the 21st century.
The only( sadly) Clapton 12 string song which by the way influenced Van Halen’s hit songs by the same name
The Byrds suffered from a lack of original material and, most importantly, a total lack of variety in their sound.
The first LP; every song has the exact same instrumental and vocal backing track.
They only wrote two great songs " Eight Miles High" and " So you want to be a Rock and Roll star"
Dance the night away is also my favorite psychedelic song.
The Byrds narrowly missed out on creating Barbershop Raga.
Byrds had tons of original material! Gene Clark brilliant songwriter! He had great songs that couldn’t get on Albums because he was getting lots money from royalties than the other members! Jealousy…. Byrds had lots of great original songs!
Lovin Spoonful were an undeniable force in American music and maybe at a point US's greatest musical export.
Yes the Lovin Spoonful, where one of the Beatles favorite American bands, along with The Beach Boys, they had a lot of talent, very good singing and songwriting.
The lovin spoonful had some talented guys who in a span of 3 or 4 years made some timeless music.
Rumor had it was Hohn Sebastian was the reason John Lennon found it ok to wear glasses
Would love to see more videos on The Byrds :)
HBD Brian! I celebrate and remember you for all you were on this day.
I think Eight Miles High was ranked 12 or something on the RS 500 best songs list. Well deserved spot
It's right up there with the very best. Dylan,Beatles, Stones and Who. can't get any better than that. The Byrds were fantastic on record., just because they weren't as exiting as the above 3 live...I wouldn't hold it against them.
Yeah, for now. Just wait until they come out with some laughable woke version of that list like they did with their album list and it plunges down to #353 to make room for 85 Beyoncé and Drake songs.
@@guitarmatricide4834 That already happened, in September, except that it only fell to #181. But yeah, there's a Drake song and 2 Beyonce songs ahead of it.
@@otisdylan9532 Oh dear God… Here I thought I was exaggerating for comedic effect and I ended up predicting it…
That magazine is absolutely dead to me now. I never really liked it to begin with but my friends and I would have fun debating the merits of the various lists they would come up with.
Now they’re just an absolute joke.
@@guitarmatricide4834 Agree! A few years ago in a music store in which I taught private lessons I saw an RS lying around in the break room and was surprised at how little music related content was in it. Most of it was about the various investments and clothing and perfume lines RS's fave pop and hip hop performers have. Their "lists" mean absolutely nothing and I'm surprised the magazine is still published.
Touring the UK as "America's answer to the Beatles", with only one song that the audience knew, is probably the best recipe for disaster in the history of rock
The mere fact that the Byrds survived is remarkable.
The fact that they went on to influence Bob Dylan, the Beatles and the Stones (amongst thousands of others), to create multiple new genres of popular music, and turn country music into something that people with multiple brain cells could list to, is nothing short of phenomenal.
Brian Jones was a musical genius.
Really - a genius?
@@urasam2Yes.
@@IMeMineWho Can you give me an example?
@@urasam2 He could learn and master instruments in literally a day..mastering the sitar (a notoriously difficult instrument to master), the dulcimar and the saxophone (witness his performance on The Beatles' "You Know My Name, Look up My Number". He and George Harrison were (along with Coltrane) among the first to popularize world music.
@@IMeMineWho I know that's the commonly perceived wisdom, but I think it's unwarranted. There's a big difference between picking up an instrument and figuring out a simple melody, and mastering said instrument. Sitar: Brian plays the five note riff of Paint It Black, most of what you hear is guitar. Dulcimer - Brian plays a simple melody on Lady Jane - someone who can play the guitar would be able to play this part on a dulcimer easily. Saxophone: Brian played a "ropey solo" - Paul's words- on You Know My Name, saying that he couldn't play well, but that it fitted in with the goofiness of the track. Brian is frequently lauded for his slide playing, as on Little Red Rooster but honestly - it's a ridiculously easy part to play.
You know, just have to say: I was born in 1960, worked in record stores all through the 70's, early 80's and the 90's...and even met some of these people, never heard any of this stuff.
I read Rolling Stone, Spin and Billboard...but you just didn't hear this amount of detail. Maybe it was in Tiger Beat or the other teeny bopper mags or something, but working and being immersed in the business trades - just never saw it.
All the competition and infighting. How much they all hung out together.
You really have a unique channel here. Your research is .. beyond amazing. Never seen anything like it.
You are unearthing and publishing things that may well have just been lost forever to history.
I was alive (and involved) at the time..and I didn't know so much of what you are exposing.
Look forward to your subes exploding as they well should.
I have been on RUclips since the first month it went live and your channel is one of the best I have seen.
Thank you very much, Robert!
Hit Parader, another magazine from the sixties, should get a lot of credit for going above and beyond what was on the Hit Parade. Thanks to them, I heard about the cutting edge groups like the Yardbirds, Stones, the blues people like Robert Johnson and Muddy Waters, Butterfield, Blues Project, music that was way past much of what showed up on Top 40.
Well done!! Clips and audio and were brilliant! Thanks guys! I look forward to these so much!
They were a big influence to another great band - Love. Their first self titled record sounds like the Byrd's and Stones had a baby...
Yep, I love Love's first album.
Arthur Lee is on record as saying that when he saw the Byrds perform live, he knew immediately the musical direction he wanted to go. And, yes, their 1st album is just as you describe it. Love's next two albums progressed staggeringly, though.
7 and 7 is
@@RavenThom that's the second album
A big influence on Tom Petty also
I'm so impressed by the quality of the editing of this video. Really excellent stuff.
Thanks!
The difference in American and English audiences are perfectly clear in the show reviews.
It seems that the English audiences seem to believe a live concert should have an act prining for the audiences approval, but American audiences seem to just take a show for what it's worth and let the act be themselves.
The Byrds don't get enough credit. They were far more than a Dylan cover band...
Great Albums.
You can see why British audiences were annoyed as Jagger has always been enthralling to watch edit And Brian is well rumoured to have co wrote Ruby Tuesday.
Amazing channel, even your voice sounds so 60s, love It, grettings from México
According to the actual statements made by Clark, Brian did not "help write the song." Clarke had a conversation with Brian regarding author William S. Burroughs (well known as a drug user into mysticism). Clark was inspired by that conversation to write Eight Miles High. That isn't the same as saying Jones helped write the song.
Interesting though, when the song got banned from US radio due to drug references, the Byrds claimed the song wasn't drug related, although there was always a sly "wink, nudge" whenever they gave the disclaimer. Years later they openly admitted the double entendre.
David Crosby was the one who 'admitted' it, and Crosby would never allow a sleeping dog to lie down.
Eight Miles High opened me up to John Coltrane. The opening of Eight Miles High was taken from Coltrane’s “India”. From what I heard was Crosby was really into Coltrane and opened the rest of the band up to his music when they were on tour. Clark and Crosby really didn’t like each other from the start of the Byrds. There might be a little animosity towards Crosby to not let him have more credit. The feelings those two had about one another was why Clark left in 1966. Crosby was difficult.
It seems nobody could stand Crosby. It's almost painful to watch the Byrds' performance at Monterey, Crosby was so annoying. He was a compulsive attention-seeker.
@@YesterdaysPapers Clark was generally relegated to tambourine due to Crosby’s connections in the entertainment industry. Clark by all recollection was a much better guitar player and musician. Very early in the bands history Crosby would belittle and intimidate Clark. Unfortunately the rest of the band was very complacent. Eventually this led to a fist fight in late 65 or 66 in the recording studio.
Gene was the best looking, had a great physique, was the best songwriter and had the best voice for lead vocals. Crosby was shorter, squat, and hairy. He was jealous and eventually drove Gene out of the band.
@@Cryo837 There is a recent documentary on Crosby, which is quite interesting. He talks about himself as he sees himself now and as he sees himself looking back at his earlier years. The doc is called, Remember My Name. I highly recommend it. :) If I recall properly, he says something to the effect that he had a huge ego for someone who only played rhythm guitar and wrote no hits...
@@robbrown4621 well, in that recent CSN&Y book, Roger admits they shouldn't have kicked Crosby out of the Byrds so Crosby's ego had some legs to stand on.
If McGuinn had the Wrecking Crew, every show would've been legendary-but that could've been said of hundreds of bands who, when they played live, disappointed their audience who had ...THE RECORDS! with that same studio band.
The only Byrds record that featured studio musicians was their first single. The rest was all them. The real problem was that they hadn't played live together much before touring. They became quite good later on.
One of my '60s Rock 'n' Roll disappointments was The Byrds in live performance. Granted we didn't have stage monitors in those days - but it didn't thwart The Beatles, Stones, or Beach Boys. In fact, The Beach Boys' intricate harmonies sounded just as good LIVE as their records. The Byrds, were hit or miss. It makes no sense. They were all really great singers. Thankfully, their recordings are nothing short of "Angelic". The Byrds remain one of my favorite '60s groups - and so influential on bands to come.
Brian contributed to so many songs, probably wrote and composed but as i heard a lot, Brian didn’t care about credit. Which is sad
There's two key parts of what Gene said which tend to get ignored in Brian fanbase, that being "I actually wrote the song..." and "...It just came out of a conversation..."
Seems to me Gene is saying Brian and Gene talked about stuff, Gene then wrote a song about what they had talked about. Gene felt Brian deserved credit because the conversation was the catalyst, but Brian didn't care.
I see it as influence without directly being part of the actual writing of the song. The song would not have existed without the conversation, but it would also not have existed had Gene not sat down and did the work of writing it.
So...
Eight Miles High - written by Clark, McGinn, Crosby - Inspired by a conversation with Brian Jones.
But of course, it's OTT to credit inspiration on releases etc as it would be never ending. Cool and interesting to include such details in the historical record though.
YP, Another impressive outing! I am so enamored of your visuals, that I occasionally go back and watch them again - with the sound off, just to wallow in the images. Going to Britain less than a year after Mister Tambourine Man was a mistake. I like the the first two Byrds albums, particularly the Gene Clark songs, but Eight Miles High was a whole other sonic experience. From Hillman's amazing bass opening (unlike anything else that I heard on AM radio in early '66) and McGuinn's non-rock 12 string playing, it seemed to me that the Byrds, some of them at least, had become players who could create distinctive phrasing. But unlike the Beatles who had to learn to live as a unit in Hamburg, the Byrds never melded into a hole. Just watching the clips of Crosby at Monterey makes me cringe to this day. But lord, I do love everything through Notorious Byrd Brothers.
Just listened to the original version of Eight Miles High and I agree with them it's stronger than the one they released at the time.
I think I prefer the "official" version but I do like that early version a lot. Sounds darker and tougher, very cool.
@@YesterdaysPapers I agree, the official release is tighter and all around the better version.
The released version is slicker
@@jamesfitzgerald6636 True
Much as I like the RCA version, I have listened to the Columbia version hundreds of times, and that is still imprinted in my brain.
"Your handing me a writ, while I'm trying to do my bit..." 🎶
-Not Guilty, George Harrison
"They didn't introduce the songs and tuned up on stage", "they didn't communicate with the audience" so they were cool AF, got it.
I like this channel. I thought I knew a lot about the Rolling Stones and the British pop scene, but I keep learning new things here
I just got that coffee table book for the sheer onslaught of unseen Byrds pics.
It's not that surprising that The Byrds came off badly on their first tour of the UK, but they seem to have had a reputation for poor quality live performances even later. I think part of the problem is that they had been formed around the time they recorded "Mr. Tambourine Man" and all but McGuinn were still learning their instruments as well as developing rapport as a band. But their sound is intricate enough that it's harder to recreate in person with the guitar interplay, lead vocals and harmonies that characterize the group at its best. I tend to think of the band as much more of a recording unit rather than an accomplished live band. (The later iteration of the band when only McGuinn remained from the original group was much more accomplished in concert, but they didn't deserve to be using The Byrds name. They had little in common with the original lineup except McGuinn's guitar and vocals.) As for Brian Jones helping Gene Clark write this song, which is one of the greatest by The Byrds, that may be true as a spark for the song, but McGuinn and Hillman have told a somewhat different version of the story and feel they deserved more credit for what the song became. I'm not against Gene Clark having due credit, but I think the song was more collaborative than he hints at in the live interviews, and he never actually says what it is that Brian Jones contributed.
Mostly studio musicians were hired for “Mr. Tamborine Man” and “Turn Turn Turn.” Only McGuinn played on it. That may explain it. They had a few gems for sure. But Crosby said it best: “We weren’t even bug spray against the Beatles.”
Studio musicians played only on the Mr. Tambourine Single (two songs, "Mr. Tambourine Man" and "I Knew I'd Want You"). The rest of the Mr. Tambourine album, and all of Turn, Turn, Turn, was the band itself. The session notes identifying the players were published for the first five albums (through The Notorious Byrd Bothers) as an extra insert in the 1987 Never Before archival release mentioned in the video. So, who played on what has been public knowledge for about 35 years, but people keep spreading false information.
You can easily Google the session notes to confirm. I tried posting a direct link, but RUclips doesn't allow that,
@@briansammond7801 Brian above is correct. If anyone listens closely enough, it's pretty obvious that "studio musicians" are playing only on those two songs (tambourine man and I knew Id want you). The rest has a certain sloppiness which I personally like - its the band themselves.
Fascinating insight into the birth of one of my favourite Byrds songs, thanks for posting.
Brian was visionary but drugs made him another victim
i found a few real live performances of the Byrds from 1965. They’re re not nearly as horrible as the British press depicts them.
Perhaps Mr. Jones and Mr. Clark got eight miles high and that's a contribution that cannot be discounted.
I saw this show at Bath pavilion and they were only on for about thirty five minutes and the admission price was higher than normal. They received a lot of flack I recall
I know!
The same thing happened to me and my band . . . 'The Minkies." No one remembers 'The Minkies' because our name sounds like that name of that other band.
Perhaps you've heard of our first (and unfortunately last) album? 'Hey! We're The Minkies!'
The Birds in London(Ronnie Wood), well there you go they didn't have any hits or tours, who would have known?? Thanks for this, very informative.
More more Byrds stuff please!
Like the fresh info and pic
As lots of others have said, many thanks for putting ‘ Yesterday’s Papers’ together . Interesting to hear in this section, Keith Altham’s thoughts about The Byrds during this tour . When l first spotted ‘ Yesterday’s Papers’ on RUclips , Keith immediately sprung to mind. I can’t pay you a higher compliment than that really. Just my opinion, but to me he was the top rock music journalist from that era. With regard to The Byrds, l think during their early days, they wanted to be The Beatles ( there’s early publicity photos of them in Beatles style suits) but were also influenced by the second best band to come out of Liverpool in the 1960s, The Searchers. ‘ l’ll Feel A Whole Lot Better’ is great, still love it, but sounds very Searchers. As we all know, The Byrds had members ( Crosby, Gene Clark, McGuinn) who would go to be key players in the rock / country music world. Looks like they arrived in England without a polished stage act, but still would love to have had the opportunity to have seen them during that era, even if was just watching them tuning up😀
Thank you very much! Keith Altham was definitely one of the best journalists from that era. Love his articles, always entertaining, informative and with plenty of humour.
The Beatles visited the Byrds in LA early on. The admiration society worked both ways. And Derek Taylor was the PR man for the Byrds after working with the Beatles, so there was a personal connection. But the Byrds did not write their own publicity, and I doubt that they dubbed themselves as the next Beatles. I don't think that they were that dumb. Public reactions to public relations often has an undesired effect.
@@wyliesmith4244 Wylie, everyone knows The Monkees were the next Beatles.! All the best from Liverpool my friend ..
I love this channel. Great video. So interesting for those of us who still the love the artform of rock and roll music.
Thanks!
He had the same haircut!
Cant say it enuf .Thanks for putting this stuff out
I remember i read John Peel was offended by their cold approach too.
Love the band though. Great sound, and beautiful vocal harmonies.
That's a great start. A soldier riding his BSA WM20 followed by a military Austin Champ and another military motorcyclist.
This is weird, i just read an old interview with Gene Clark he wrote most of 8 Miles High after a conversation with Brian. He showed it to McGuinn and Crosby who helped Gene finish up the song and arrange it. THe Byrds were on tour and Gene & Brian befriended each other after Brian saw Gene reading a Burrows book as it turned out both Brian and Gene were big fans of Burrows.
I saw The Byrds at the Portsmouth concert on this tour. It was definitely lacklustre and the venue was half empty.
The Byrds had a giant success with Dylans Mr Tamborine Man prior to their 8 Miles High release. I would be interested in the concert list for this tour. Great band another good tune is Turn,Turn,Turn. Even Beatles had a hard time breaking in at their beginning.
Roger Jim was a nut on the late 80s/early 90s. Not surprised of the comments about "not connecting" with the audience.
Interesting to hear that in the UK bands could be fined for starting late and for playing a short set.
If the sound equipment isn’t right, nothing is. A few years ago I attended a “Journey” concert in SF. I love the band! But. The sound was horrible. I felt like I wasted my time and money. If that’s how it was for British fans with the Byrds, I can understand their disillusionment. Unfortunately Crosby often spoke without filters. His whole life long. Great music. Great studio band!
Weather or not Brian helped out isn’t really relevant. Let’s just agree he’s one of the greatest musicians ever! But I seem to remember Keith writing in his bio that Brian was tremendously gifted. He learned to play new instruments in no time at all. But he couldn’t write a song to save his life! The Stones sacked Brian because he had become completely unreliable. Not for any other reason. Sometimes he showed up, and sometimes he didn’t. I very much doubt Mick and Keith had anything to do with him being left off a stamp image. It wouldn’t have gained them a thing! It probably had more do do with whatever rules the design committee has to adhere to… and possibly them not knowing the band’s history. The Stones are the greatest band ever, and Brian was instrumental (literally and figuratively speaking) to their success!
Great insight and video, thanks! ❤
Thanks for the uploaded, so good. X
So the question was never answered. We have only Gene's admission that Jones was there when he started writing it. Jones looked it over and supposedly said "this is pretty good, you should work on that."
If I see one more Byrds slander lol.
It's wasn't lack of ability to play that made their U.K tour of 65' so bad, it's their unproffesinlism.
In the sense that U.K groups, from the highest band (Beatles, Animals, Stones to an extent) were respectful and would bow between songs,
Ask the audience to join in, clap their hands. The Byrds just come a different scene. A scene where it wasn't needed to bow, or thank the audience or respond to loud fans.
That sunset strip in L.A, at Ciro's was where the Byrds live performances had been cultivated from March - April.
It probably was the peak of the original line-ups Live Performances. The Byrds attitudes to not speak in between songs isn't so much a drawback as an artistist style.
As many bands in the decades to come would adopt that style too.
The 12 string guitar is notorious for going out of tune so that’s why they took time to tune! Instrument wise they sounded real good , TAMI show 1965 proves it
Correct James, no guitar tech's then! Most bands I watched in the 60s had someone out of tune.
For as talented as The Byrds were, they seemed pretty arrogant and immature. I think we all know about Crosby's attitudes and his ego, but just listen to the Notorious Byrd Brothers outtakes from before Crosby was fired. You can hear them being really nasty to each other, especially to drummer Michael Clarke. A lot of these band members around this time were just kids, but I'd say The Byrds and Buffalo Springfield (ironically) came off as being the most immature and toxic.
There is a 1966 ABC TV broadcast of Gemini 9 hosted by news announcer Jewels Bergmann which during the its 1st stage burn there is the phrase , Eight Miles High. A possible inspiration to the songs name.
Americans may invented the rock but britains not only so " bring a little contribution " as McGuinn said, in fact britains turned the rock and roll as we knew after Beatles, Stones, Yardbirds etc appeared on scene, a totally new makeup brought Yes, ELP, Pink Floyd with progressive rock, never after them were so different of american groups !
Good stuff. I can see how the Byrds may have seemed a little sloppy by that time, but they sounded pretty good on record.
that was because of terry melcher.
Ive listened to a little bit of Ronnie Wood's Birds and found them to be great . Like a heavier Small Faces . 60s Mod Rock at its best
Yes, they were a great. I've got a Birds compilation that came out some years ago and I love it. Ronnie Wood's guitar tone was unlike anything I've heard from that era. Love that fat, crunchy tone he had.
GENE CLARK , period.
Mr Tambourin Man is Roger on 12 String and The wrecking Crew backing.
The irony is of course that most of the contributions to American music by that time were black music not white man’s music
I'm no Dylan fan, but I think that he is white. Country/bluegrass is pretty much a white development and the Everly Brothers, Roy Orbison, Johnny Cash, ... had an impact as well.
Great. Just when you think you know all the details, but it's infinitely sublime. I heard that the audience once cheered Ravi Shankar after he tuned up 'cos they thought it was the first song. Also my cousin saw Dylan at the Isle of White i think, and it took him nearly an hour to tune up. It is supposed to be a nightmare even now to get a proper amp and mix for 12 string electric, but I heard a great mix for a band supporting Secret Affair at Liverpool Cavern Club last year and they had two 12 string electric guitars. Secret Affair were noumenal best guitar and sax ever. I went to the bar I think Brian and the Stones were at in Morocco and i recall that Burrows had stayed there too. Got to listen to the original 8 miles high right now. Many thanks.
Yeah, 12-string guitars can be problematic. Glad you enjoyed the video, thanks!
wonder how they would have treated the Dead. Try 20 minutes of tuning up. And everyone here in America loved every minute of it.
@@willieluncheonette5843 Maybe LSD was more powerful in San Francisco!
@@YesterdaysPapers lol. But we Yanks did not always love everything such as Public Image playing behind a curtain here in NYC. A riot ensued and the boys in blue had to be called and stopped the show just after it began. Lots of pissed off kids in the street.
The Ravi Shankar “tuning incident” occurred at the Concert for Bangaladesh in 1971 and can be seen in the movie version of that concert.
Looks like Brian was IN the group almost.....lol.
In the mid to late 60's I saw the Byrds as nothing more than a cover band and I didn't pay much attention to them but I was wrong, it wasn't until much later that I came to appreciate their original songs.
I agree. I think the Gene Clark's songs were just as good as their Dylan covers.
@@YesterdaysPapers Yup and I'd take it a step further, they were better in many ways as were some of Crosby's songs, like, Everybody's Been Burned.
I agree that the Byrds were mostly a cover band in their early days. However, their vocal harmonies were so breathtaking that I cut them some slack. Plus they became much more eclectic as the years went by.
@@phil2bfree Agreed and as I later learned they had some really good songs. Its too bad I ignored them for so long.
The Byrds manager recorded a slew of tunes at World Pacific studio (where Ravi Shankar recorded a couple of albums) before the Byrds first official Columbia release. Some can be found on Pre-flyte and on In the Beginning. There more Clark songs there. It has been stated that the other Byrds vetoed that they record more of these Clark songs for Columbia. Or maybe it was producer Terry Melcher who swapped them for covers, but Gene Clark sure could spin a tune at this time.
they were up-themselves and thought that they were super group ! = a studio band with good song`s !
Poor old Byrds. At least we got Crosby out of them. And Chestnut Mare is a guilty pleasure song for me.
Very intersting
You really out did yourself with this mini doc. Again I can see this channel going on for years with the research matarial you have to make the videos. I read through a lot of these music magazines and there is a lot of info in there and thats just the british mags , the amercian musici mags have tons of stuff too to do videos on.. Keep up the good work
I love the Byrds, but they were never a viable live act until their later incarnation with Clarence White, Skip Battin and Gene Parsons. By then, they were one of the best live acts in the world.
It's just a bit strange to see photos of a young, thin David Crosby with hair. Minus that walrus mustache. Just HOW does he eat with that thing?
😂😂😂😂
It looks like he manages to eat very well----even with that mustache :-)
I own a copy of The Byrds' "Never Before":and I absolutely agree that the original version of "Eight Miles High", recorded at RCA Studios, is superior to the version recorded later at Columbia Studios.
Still don't get why they were so hung up on the first cut of "Eight Miles High." It sounds limp and lumbering IMHO, and the single version is seminal!
@soulvigilante
I also prefer the single version of Eight Miles High. However the strongest of the two RCA, December 1965 recordings IMHO was the original version of the b-side Why.
It’s more succinct than the take released on the 1966 single and more strident than closing version on ‘Younger than Yesterday’.🎸✌️
The Byrds always seemed blasé about how they were coming across. Later, when Hillman and Parsons were working extremely hard to incorporate bluegrass and trad country into their sound, McGuinn was a total putz when they were touring their new sound to country audiences.
And Chris Hillman (still active) has gone from being "ultra quiet" to exceedingly loquacious.
MY NAME IS JASON RONARD......Iam AN ACTOR AND WAS BEST FRIENDS WITH GENE CLARK......GENE AND BRIAN JONES WROTE 8 MILES HIGH....NOT ROGER OR ANY OF THE OTHER BYRDS......READ A BOOK ( MISTER TAMBOURINE MAN ) THE BOOK WILL TELL YOU THE WHOLE STORY...... jr.
If only McGuinn had a proper compression pedal or unit to pump the Ricky 12 through, he was desperate to recreate the sound live but couldn’t, a victim of studio magic that cornered their sound into a place that could not be easily replicated at shows:the technology just wasn’t there and eventually used a Vox treble booster which turned his jingle jangle into crispy crunch, if the Byrds had the ability to precisely replicate they’re quintessential element and use of a highly compressed electric 12-string guitar LIVE, they would not have suffered as badly…Roger had stated as much, and even had a compression unit built directly into his signature Rickenbacker 370-12 from the 80’s to be able to replicate the jingle-jangle compressed 12-string sound live with ease. For anyone who downplays the absolute importance of McGuinn’s studio-compressed 12-string Rickenbacker, imagine everyone of those hits without it 😐…If you want a good demonstration of just how important the compression of an electric 12-string is to creating that swirling Byrds tones, there are videos on here show the riff to Mr.Tambourine Man with and without
Original Byrds were good live later in 1965! TTT on Ed Sullivan really good considering Ed’s crew got pissed at Crosby tuning up during somebody’s act and turned he’s sound off! McGuinn was a great 12 string player!
Still is a great 12 string player... :)
And now we know why the real king of the LA scene was LOVE. Which interestingly had the Byrd's former road manager Bryan MacLean on guitar.
Certain words in EMH are very English so I’d guess Jones gave Clark these words
The Byrds were great .....A bit too sunny LA laid back for some European audiences who expected the usual cliché stage banter .....
"It's so great to be in your beautiful town" .....British weather was hell for them ....."grey grey town"
Their 1996 Columbia Legacy CD remasters were brilliant with highly interesting bonus tracks. Including the different "Eight Miles High" which is interesting but far from as good as the single version. ✈
Yeah , they were a disfunctional bunch with a drummer because of his looks and horse head Crosby , who made some timeless 60s classics.
The English band The Birds appears in the Movie “The Deadly Bees” which MST3K riffed on….
Great film which we have .Rog. Pacific sunset records.
It's not as easy to reproduce the same sounds on stage that someone else (the "Wrecking Crew") recorded for you on tape. They got better, and I love The Byrds albums, but how they made their early records was much like the case with The Monkees. Only McGuinn's guitar made it onto their early albums. On the other hand, I'm never impressed with any of that contrived and overly rehearsed "stage-presence." A thousand or so concerts later, it's still just about the music, for me. The Allman Brothers never moved, but they always shook the walls.
Only the songs "Mr Tambourine Man" and "I'd Knew I Want You" were recorded by the Wrecking Crew.
@@YesterdaysPapers Okay, I stand corrected. They did improve musically and were able to get Melcher to allow them to record their own cuts. One of the problems that Stephan Stills had with Crosby (in CS&N) was that he kept turning his guitar up way too loud, and Crosby wanted Gene Clark fired from The Byrds because his tambourine playing was spotty and offbeat. The point being, they weren't that great of a live band until the country guys joined, but that was almost an entirely different group.
@@obbor4Crosby had it in for Gene. Gene was the ORIGINAL rhythm player in the Byrds until Crosby finished hounding him for the job. I like Crosby's rhythm playing on Younger Than Yesterday, but Clark was supposedly the better player. Crosby should have been the one stuck with the tambourine. The Byrds started out with just Clark and McGuin until Crosby nosed his way in.