Whetstone Wars Battle 1K - Naniwa Professional vs. Imanishi
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- Опубликовано: 31 мар 2022
- Latest installment of whetstone wars. We continue to try to bring you good content. Please enjoy this epic battle between two of the people's champions. These always come down to the wire. These whetstones are manufactured by two great companies. One of them has partial natural stone content. The other one uses magnesium bonding. Subtle differences but they both perform well. We have to pull out all the stops to test these two. Remember we're using super blue steel, the top performing steel to give us the champion.
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I have the huge Cerax 3030 and another. Both soakers. The Cerax works great
My red one is a King
Both of them were fantastic. Enjoy!
Many people say don't soak the professional. They can crack. Many people have had issues with cracking with the Professional stones.
It's funny because there's both comments on the Internet. That's why I just did five minutes. I appreciate you looking out.
Soaked as in a dunk, or tossed 2 feet into a steel sink to soak overnight? People tend to leave out important details. Until I see actual responsible adult behavior I just assume everyone treats there stuff like an overgrown child.
I'm in that mood again to be buying new stones. I'm really loving the gokumyo 10k for it's almost still sharpening function, and the feed back is great in my opinion compared to the 15k and 20k which I like the hardness off but definitely does feel more glassy. But I am looking for something sub 10k, or perhaps two sub 10k, one for giving that frosted polished edge rather than a pure mirror especially on harder vanadium carbide steels like k390 if thats even possible given the chromium levels.., I don't know, and one to really fine tune the scratch pattern before taking it to the 10k to satin mirror polish that would also suit as more of a last stone or only stone to touch up when needed.
I am looking at the chosera 3k again, but the suehiro kira 5k, the w8 and others keep showing up too. I am still looking for edge pro compatible stones because of the size factor and price factor though. I don't want something too soft given the minimal thickness of the edge pro stones so harder is better.
Any thoughts between the 1000 and 10k range that you think I should look into here? I'm looking at the chosera 3k because most say thats the harder of their stone range in that grit range. It appears the Arashiyama and kitayama are both good contenders in the 1000 grit, but how does the 6000 compare to the 8000?
There is a lot to unpack. Yes, you have to find the right stones with the right scratch pattern. You have to realize that not every company properly marks their grit. It's unfortunate! It's only through trial and error do we really find out which one will erase the scratch patterns from the previous stone. I have a lot of stones but I can't say I have them all. It's hard to recommend everything. It sounds like you're ahead of me. I don't have anything above a 10,000 and only have one at 10,000 and another one at 9000 and some 8000s. I might have a second 10,000 but I haven't gotten into those yet
@@nadm My logic for the approach was different. Way I see it, it's the last stone the puts the working edge you want on the blade so thats your most important purchase and if you like polish then it's usually the mort expensive too. Many other stones will get you upto it, even 7000-10000grit wet and dry will get you to it but now it's fiinding the right stones that feel how I like to make the journey to that last stone the most pleasant one thats the challenge. Theres so many and I have to go by other peoples experiences, theres so many options I like the sound of.
I never knew Arashiyama had different names. I wish you would have written that is the description above. What are all those brand names you called it? I often wish you would always display the Japanese names (in English of course) on the screen at some point in your videos.
It's quite confusing. I name them all in the video. It's overwhelming. I won't be able to go back into the video and put it on there. I'll have to get back and maybe put it in the description when I get a chance
I’m really happy and surprised that the Imanishi 1000 won this showdown. I tried my hand with that stone once, and it was not working in my favor tbh. I tried everything from the time forming a burr to different deburring techniques to forming a slurry. At the end of the day, the edges that I got off that stone were not satisfactory.
I don’t doubt that this stone does it’s job well, I just didn’t have a grand ole time with it.
Maybe try soaking a little bit next time. Even though they say not to soak it I have read so many people online saying to let it have five minutes and you'll get a different performance. Some people even Perma soak it
I haven't bought one yet as I'm restricting blade related purchases for a while, but I would like either this Arishyama 1k or a King Neo 800. (The Neo is not at all a finishing stone, mainly used as an intermediate step to ~3k.)
I've seen some controlled testing on chisels that shows the Imanashi 1k/Arashiyama is very good with high hardness higher carbide steels. From memory they didn't have the most exotic of the powder super steels(those need diamond/cBN anyway) but had a couple of respected HSS tool steels, a super blue, and a soft-iron clad white.
The Imanashi 1k retained a nice combination of good speed and reasonable wear. The faster stones were the King Neo 800 and Sigma power select 2. The Bester 1k was a fairly close competitor with the Arashiyama 1k
I suspect the Arishyama contains a good portion of SiC or a dose of something more exotic because the only stones faster on the HSS were hard vitrified blocks of pure green SiC and they had a higher wear rate, while all of the stones known to be AlOx based had more difficulty on the higher grade steels tested.
The traditional AlOx stones were faster on the soft-iron clad white than they were on the HSS's; but the overall fast [SiC] stones, arishyama and bester were faster on HSS's than they were on soft-clad white. Theory is the abrasive tends to get embedded in soft iron and such.
The fast stones were overall faster than the traditional stones on both classes of steel, but the difference in speed was modest with iron-clad white, and mostly found in the HSS's. (While stones retained a similar wear rate regardless of the steel, ie a high wear stone was always a high wear stone.)
Of course by the time I get to it I may just have saved up for a matrix/resin bonded diamond stone for finishing any difficult steels making these other stones somewhat redundant...
You had 8 full passes on the right side of the blade with Imanishi and 6 full passes on the right side of the blade with Naniwa. So that is probably why you had a more pronunced burr from the Imanish, and also depending on pressure you put on.
Otherwise you wold've had a more refined edge from Imanishi.
If you want this kind of comparison to be more relevant try to execute the exact same number of strokes on each stone and also inspect the edge after each pass. You might get a burr faster than expected between different blades hardness and also different stones as you well know.
Otherwise great content from your videos, im glad that you contribue with conparisons i can not make between stones as i sharpen too, and from this video i take my decision probably in buying this Imanishi 1000 and replacing my Suehiro Cerax 1000 (1010).
I would also like you to share the type of polish between these 2 stones as you did not show after sharpening on them.
Or just leave a coment on wich stone leaves a more shiny edge please.
I agree that it's a human being doing both test even though it's the same knife done by the same person and in the end I was just going by the end result not necessarily if one was definitely faster than the other. You'd have to get a robot in here and have it apply the exact same amount of pressure to know if one was truly faster but in the end I think the performance was the difference considering the price point was the same
all naniwa professionals are splash-and-go stones....you can dip them under for a few minutes, but as you go up the grits the dangers of cracking appear - the Naniwa pro 5000 is notorious for this. As a ballpark - most stones over 3000 grit will not need much soaking, if at all.
also the Naniwa Professionals and Choseras are the exact same compound stones - just size (thickness) and base/no base differences.
Thank you for that.
I just bought the imanishi arashiyama 1k. I already own the chosera 1000, not the pro version, but the actual chosera. I paid approximately 150 AUD for my chosera, and I just paid 90 AUD for the arashiyama. I have not yet used the arashiyama, as it will be there for me tonight. so in australia the arashiyama is CONSIDERABLY cheaper than the chosera. Not sure on the naniwa PRO's pricing. I tend to go for the "larger" stone options
Please take the time to come in after you've used it. Love to hear back from you.
Well Greg, it brings me sadness to some extent to have to say this. My personal findings are that I vastly prefer the chosera over the arashiyama. Personally, I find it to be a LOT quicker than the arashiyama, and I find that it gives a better edge too. Clearly different stones mesh with different people and different techniques! So the stone works amazing for you, but less amazing for me. The arashiyama is a great stone, and it works well, but I find the chosera out performs it when I am using them. Have tested them both on many different knives and steels and the chosera just shines every time. I can tell that the chosera will last a lot longer as it’s a much more dense stone. The arashiyama is still good, and in Australia considerable cheaper, so still a worthy opponent. Just a little too slow for my liking
@@jarrodhales3666 hey buddy, I hear you! I don't go into this with any type of preconceived notion. I would normally have thought the results would've been the opposite. I just take the results as they come. You can usually tell them equally surprised. I think I was absolutely shocked when this happened. You have a good reason to be a fan of the things you're a fan of. Like you said, it's best for you. God bless and thanks for checking this out as always. Appreciate you coming and I do really appreciate your comment.
Hi Greg,
May I ask for your thoughts on using the arashiama 1000 on a kobayashi sg2? Is it hard enough or would you recommend another stone?
Thank you Jef
I have not use them together, but you know that that stone is amazing so I can only imagine the shit turned out amazing. That stone suddenly jumped up to be one of my favorites. His performance is ridiculous so you should have no problem.
Thank you! I hope we will get more stone battles...
@@jefvanloock1563 you will. There’s gonna be more. We have planned.
I love my imanishi
It took a while for me to get used to it. I like the softness. I typically like harder stones but there's just something about the muddiness that happens that I really like.
@@nadm it definitely takes some getting used to but it does a great job
Your confusion at the beginning made me laugh. We mentioned before that it’s very difficult to know who makes what, and for who, in Japan. Add in some rebranding of stones shipped to western markets and you have a ball of confusion. My personal belief is that a stone around the 1k mark is the workhorse around the kitchen, and it’s worthwhile to get a good one. You can actually get a very nice, slightly toothy edge from one.
I agree. All you'll ever need if you have a good technique is just the one Kay. After that you're just being a little bit eccentric.
Eccentric, I like it 😆.
Well, yeah ... but you have to do 1,383 separate tests with 7 different sharpeners and the sharpness must be judged in a blind, not knowing which sharpener did which knives on which stones ... (April Fool!!).
the old naniwa choseras cracked if you soak them too long. so be carefull with that.
Yeah this is the new one. So they redid it a little bit. There was just some information on there to let it sit for a little bit. I wanted to make sure they had equal time so that was just five minutes. I appreciate you looking out.
I have one of the not "new Chosera" 1K's. I don't see the need to soak it, but I'm just a hobbyist. I do have two or three stones that SAY they're splash-n-go but are annoyingly dry if I don't soak them for maybe five minutes before use. The Naniwa Super Stone 5K for example - it seems to be designed for 56-58 HRC steel (super sharp, sub100 BESS) but I haven't been so good with it on 63 steel.
Nice video!
Hi greeg do you use Atoma 400 or the 120 for flattening your 1000 grit stone?
400
@@nadm do you try Atoma 120 ?? I want to buy one but don't know which one I should get, 120 or 400. Someone said 120 left deep scratches on the stone and recommend the 400 for flattening 600 grit stone and above.
@@Reza-nz2re I want to try one. I’ve been trying to buy one. I will get one. I believe in it
@@nadm I don't think you need Atoma 120 since you have that expensive Nanohone NL-8 Lapping Plate
@@Reza-nz2re That Lapping plate is not extremely aggressive. It does take a second for it to work. If I had something that was dished out pretty bad then I would want to not waste my time. The advantage of the expensive one is that it will work on any of the material that you have to flatten
Would you say that the Imanishi is a soft as the Suehiro Cerax?
I do not have the Cerax. I have other stones by that company and I love them very much and I would say that Suehiro is harder
@@nadm thanks
Suehiro is more soft
@@rfrankhuizen thanks
To much breathing mouth movement and mouth noises
Yes sir. Sorry to bother you with that. Asthma is a thing. I wish I could get rid of it. We're trying to move the microphone around a little bit. Definitely on five different medicines. I wish I was healthy. I hope you are.