Just finished the book. Siddhartha took the kid in without hesitation and tried his best to please him, even when the kid started yelling and cursing at him. When the kid fled, against the ferryman's advice, Siddhartha chased after him and was gutted (and suffered a long time after) when he realised that the kid would indeed be better off by himself. He was barely a father, but not a bad one. You're not focusing on the story
The name Siddhartha refers to the name of the historical Buddha, who, according to the legend, also had a son and left him when starting his spiritual journey.
And went back to, after nirvana, to share his wisdom with his child Rahula so that he can free himself from suffering too if he wanted. Half-knowledge is dangerous
@@jeanlundi2141That would depend upon whether or not you believe that the teachings really result in liveratiin from suffering or not. If they do, what better gift for your child? If not, maybe it's not an antidote to being an absent father. Or maybe Buddha had simply succeeded in setting up a brand new parallel kingdom in place of his father's monarchy.
@@Anjali-mh5hg Buda do same Sidartha so no difrent only difrent Rahul stay with mother but we dontknow hoa Sidartha soon survive. Actual Hese make world deep state of supreme art he wake up people in sense to beyond to your true nature he whose not like spiritual lieder make rules he just become like he is truly himself with no eny regualacion . Today budist monk in the time of covid tirany restriction folow order and take promote vacine mask separation ..Hese neve folow world order and he talk abut this in Demian book in Bokss og perl so he is real amezing free human like he say im not the tree in forest but one big tree who stay alčone and egzist eternal
I feel the dad did the only thing he could do. To go in the town would mean death for him, and the child staying would be death for the child. He did the hardest thing a parent can ever do and that's let go the child.The child needed what would be most painful to the parent other than his death and he did that. Can you see this perspective?
If he was a normal guy with no problems, would you have read his book? Maybe it would have been boring and mundane. You have to accept the totality of him as an individual. If you would have liked to have done things differently, maybe this author made you think about and realize that. That can be the point of writing also to shine a light on the good and the bad as well.
That's right, Siddhartha was a failure. After so much effort, he achieved nothing, and caused all kinds of trouble. My own (alcoholic) father kept trying to be a father, but the more he tried, the more trouble he caused. I had to distance from him. He needed to sort himself out, but never had the tools to. He was the quintessential failure, and he had to live with that. Approaching death sobered him up, at which point his true courage became apparent. I miss him. In my own disasters, he is the one person who would understand.
Many spiritual teachers including Edgar Cayce wrote that "we choose our own parents pre-birth to experience the life we want to live and experience. Example: If we were victimizing in a past life, we may choose to be a victim. If we were rich, we might choose to be poor. All things work together for our benefits. We just use this earthly body to experience through our five senses until it's time to leave it all behind and play in another role in another play. We are energy and energy never dies just transforms. We are love, light and life expressing the I AM.
Although I agree with you, I think, in addition to censure, Hesse also "needs" compassion, because presumably, he was failed by his own parents as well.
Hey Dan, I didn't get that impression about Siddhartha. Rather that being an estranged father was part of his life journey especially already old/middle-aged man and trying to be a father then. I think the book intentionally wanted to an unideal childhood setting for the boy: that it was especially tragic and heart-wrenching that he had to try to raise a rebellious son who lost his mother early. It was all part of the story, and we can't use 20th century psychology+child development to judge someone in early recorded history in SE Asia.
Hesse always wrote the novel he wished he could have read to shape his life 5 years befor. Siddhartha was a novel intended for an elderly self. For a man past middle age. I really enjoyed your take
This was certainly a revelation about the author Herman Hesse for me. You model inquisitiveness in a great way, Daniel. I recall listening to an audiobook recording of the novel years ago. However I only vaguely remember the contents in the book, in retrospect maybe because I didn't learn much from it. More speculatively, books like perhaps this one sometimes leave me scratching my head, feeling stupid for not getting it. Maybe sometimes that feeling of obliviousness arises when one in fact does understand that the material itself is oblivious, and perhaps the ensuing self-doubt reveals a deep truth of our childhood: we were tasked with understanding the world because our parents wouldn't - out of dissociation, denial, self-absorption. My own parents were utterly oblivious about the world and considered themselves pragmatic in so far as they figured out how to survive in the world. So I had to "go out and explore the world" many times at great personal expense.
Totally agree with you and glad you bring up these unique subjects. No enlightenment without exactly... being an adult...love you saying that you need to be a parent to fully be an adult and you need to be an adult to be enlightened. I read siddhatha as a kid and felt uncomfortable about some bits.. might have been these. Tired of people belittling family and responsibility to act cool. Noone is so great at anything that they can fail their responsibility and should still be honoured
Trauma is definitely a subset of suffering. But there will be suffering even without trauma. It is important to understand this point as trauma cannot be made the do all and be all of all human problems.
I enjoyed reading Siddhartha, Steppenwolf, and Hesse's fairly obscure novel, Gertrud. I wasn't really impressed by Beneath the Wheel. I'd love to hear more of your opinion on Hesse's Steppenwolf.
It's the age-old dilemma of the successful career, I think, and the sickness that results from being unable to judge how much is enough success. Hesse through Siddhartha is exploring intellectual/artistic self-sufficiency. It always amazes me how Siddhartha justifies his dissolute lifestyle to himself as necessary shedding the illusions of his Brahminic upbringing in the goal of becoming a wise soul.
Why not?Maybe there are more importend things?yMaybe not!Maybe its the best for the family to!Better then terrorizing the family!Why do we have to live by the morals of other people?This are the real questions!
also let us remember that the novel is set in the time of The Buddha 480-500 BC, the time now is way different, maybe if Siddhartha had access to netflix and porn, maybe if he lived in 2023 his journey would have been different...i know every book has something to teach us, but this book is antiquated
Great video as always...What I find very interesting is that Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk on his book: The Body Keeps The Score on page 32 says exactly the same thing you said about what Freud said: " the compulsion to repeat" and that there is a truly truly scary thing. Please make a video on that topic. Thanks and God Bless You.
Putting aside Hesse's personal life, Siddhartha's relationship with his son was meant to be the last lesson for the main character: that he must, like his father did when he was young, let go of his son and allow him to experience his destiny. The point was that Siddhartha was trying to protect his son from real suffering, and to let go of it was the lesson he learned from the Ferryman: the point isn't that children aren't to be cared for at all, but that they must be allowed to individuate -- they can't be protected forever. Same trope as Sleeping Beauty and her parents. I think you're reading the events too literary: the whole story really must be read through a Jungian-archetypal lens. It starts to make more sense that way.
With respect, I find that Hesse is simply emulating the life of the real Buddha with the fictional Siddhartha. The real Buddha abandoned his child at the age of 29 according to the tradition. Hesse in my estimation doesn’t want to leave this detail out, but does what he can to humanize the situation. I think readers are expecting a western Silas Marner kind of adoption scene. But this is ancient India.
I think it's important to remember that enlightenment doesn't necessarily have a moral dimension. There are spiritually awake people who are jerks, and even truly evil.
@@mlimun No I wouldn't. Love is only one part of an always shifting spectrum of emotions human beings can experience. Enlightenment is a process of continuous disengagement with the conventional sense of self. There have been many spiritual gurus who clearly exhibited the traits of having real spiritual insight while still conducting often highly unethical behaviour.
Kinda surprised by the number of people here who have (consciously or unconsciously) wedded the notion of enlightenment to moral purity. I'm pretty sure the novel explicitly rejects the good/evil binary towards the end when Siddhartha finally, truly experiences "oneness". It's not that good and evil "don't exist", just that they are immaterial for someone who has become One.
We see ourselves in mirrors and our own inner eye. But, the potential and possibility we know of ourselves is limited by self (degradation). Movie makers and artists make their characters "relatable". Once the audience has their mind hooked to the character, whatever the character does, the reader thinks he does. I would suggest people - each video, book is a program and an algorithm. Nobody is interested in giving you the correct information and the exact information you need. Please digest the product at your own caution. Chew well. Eat in proportion. Go slow. Dont gulp it. Even if its tasty.
I'm very sceptical about the view that trauma is everywhere, all the time for children and young people. And I'm very sceptical of screwed up adults retrofitting trauma into their childhoods.
I just today read the book. I even waited to watch your video until after I had finished reading it. I am a bit disappointed. I find your criticism to be a bit arbitrary. With all do respect with the book having heavy themes of the fundamental reality of our existence etc. I find judging a persons decision based on your own cultural understanding if manlyhood and "if you fail as a parent you fail at live" to be a bit undifferentiated.
Ah, did we miss the entire point of the book. Surely, the flaw is not in the simple and straightforward story of Siddhartha. Isn’t Siddhartha an allegorical tale about social mores writ large. The Savior of human kind introduced into the Siddhartha story eludes to a concept of higher truth. Consider that folks seem to think that Gautama Buddha and Siddhartha are synonymous, at least in the major outlines. Young fella becomes disillusioned with his upbringing, then strikes out on his own to live his own life in a search for truth. Kinda sorta what Siddhartha did in his own life. So Hesse has not left the child, but has released him to find higher truth that will save himself and add to the social fabric. Most of us do not fully embrace ideas of freedom that are blowing in the wind, and waiting to find fertile ground in the minds of we adherents of freedom, justice and equality.
I think it was in "Narcissus and Goldman" where toward the end Narcissus as he aged was no longer the Adonnis that he fancied himself to be - and multiple women would attest to - and indeed had lost his looks. Only then could he look at least somewhat truthfully and honestly self-assess where his life had once been and where it was now. I can't recall if he came to terms with that assessment or not. It seems he had lost purpose and meaning in life. Not too different from Siddhartha with regard to owning up to one's responsibility.
Siddhartha is a very selfish character, he is so selfish that he missout the whole world. Everything he tried goes in vain. I always wondered why some readers cannot see that.
I remember in my 20s I liked a guy. Siddartha was his favourite book (the idea of traveling and being free and wiser = better that anyone). I read the book. And, apart from the story which was interesting to read, I disliked the character, mainly for being egoistic and irresponsible. Quite ridiculous as his goal was to be a wiseman. Couldn't be more wrong. I didn't share my crush's fascination.
You didn't get Hesse, then. I suspect you're reading him from within a value system rooted in Judeo-Christian values. You need to let go. So the father looks after the son and civilisation is sustained. The greed of the father will become the greed of the son. How much longer do you think civilisation will last? It only took 400 years to turn most of a continent into wasteland. Real estate development is still the main driver of growth, 5 min before environmental doomsday.
Maybe I do and maybe I don't need to qualify this but when I say abuse I mean my mother's abuse of me which was emotional which was constantly screaming and one of her things was that she wanted to go to college and we stopped her (us kids that she had) and in rural Ireland where I live that was a big deal.... she was the only woman in her family that went and did her leaving cert which was your final year exam so she could have technically gone to college..... I have spent my life in college doing many degrees and did I want a child?.... I think it's very complicated with women because I've had many hormonal problems and towards the end of my life I did want a child..... I ended up not having one..... I had this fear of becoming like my mother though I may not have been like her..... I'm going through the menopause now and I now think that was the right thing for me...... my mother did a lot of good things for us but she was very very angry very very resentful and very very sad and she seemed to us to be trapped in the house with us as my father went off to the pub (this is Ireland after all😢) and left her there night after night..... it was a sad upbringing though we had a lot of good things around us like enough money.... my father earned it but he would have squandered it (my mother had to be the organiser of it r so she said) food and art😢😢😢
you deserve to be on the forefront of the CPTSD wave of 'therapist-researchers" like Bessel, Walker, Levine, etc etc. I find it ironic that you don't work as a therapist anymore because I think you are one of the few who would be able to help me (and countless others). Anyways - very glad for your constant stream of updates. I paid for your book yesterday and eagerly looking forward to reading it when I get the link. Thank you so much for all your content. 🙏
I loved Hesse in my 20s. I read a biography about him about 4 years ago and it left a bad taste in my mouth. Ironically he had terrible parents and he turned out to be an even worse parent to his kids. Thanks for pointing this flaw out, as I too forgot about this detail as well & agree with your assessment.
I read that book in senior year of high school. It was pretty trippy. I didn't much care for it except that I was in the middle of my own abandonment pain, in my own fatherlessness. The one part that resonated with me was something about meeting the men by the river who sleep and eat bananas all day. And Herman Hesse said something about how that is just as much a form of escape as anything else. Sleep and meditation is a means of escape. I related to that because so often throughout my high school years sleep was a means of escape for me. Not drugs and alcohol like it was for others.
I am watching some of your older videos and some of the things you say are so raw and real that It makes me sit back and wonder "why didnt I hear this from other prominent people in the mental health space". You convey your experience with the passion and energy of someone who wants to get the word out and the struggles you have been through can be heard in your tone and powerful choice of words. I hope you the best in your continuation of your healing journey and wanted to tell you that I am grateful for the videos you put out there
Raising kids; attitude to(wards) them is s really big issue in "our" "society". If there are dicriminated groups, children is the most discriminated one. Oh, ofc some speak of ageism, but only to use this narrative to their benefit: in fact, kids should become _property_ of the State instead of being _property_ of their parents. There is a guy (who is similar to Hesse and his character though in a way) who predicts Great Children's War (against parents and then - all adults exept those few who side with them; many kids will chose the side of adults)... in a few hundred years from now. He writes about in his fictional book. I've could called the name of the book -as well of the author's - but it writen Russian.
@@matijaderetic3565 I'd rather disagree with last part. The State is already takes control over kids instead of the parents. Cause thanks to techologies the State can control directly. The "elites" needed parents' intermedion and they had to exept the lesser evil (for them). Not much longer. Not only gorizontal bounds between people, but any alternative hierarchies are seen as a threat.
Do you know what happened to the historical Siddhartha Gautama? He left his family for enlightenment. Doesn't make it ok but in cultures like India it's more excepted. Western culture has a different view.
I had same reaction with 'Close encounters of the Third kind' when I realised as I got older that Roy just abandoned his wife and kids to do ... something with aliens. They are completely forgotten in final third of the film.
This reading of the novel is just plain inaccurate and misleading. Siddhartha does NOT abandon his son. Re-read that section and you’ll see very clearly that Siddhartha longed deeply to have a relationship with him: “he preferred the suffering and worries of love over happiness and joy without the boy…For a long time, for long months, Siddhartha waited for his son to understand him, to accept his love… ‘How could I part with him?’ he said quietly,..” and there are about a dozen more such quotes that show Siddhartha’s devotion as a father. It’s not Siddhartha that leaves, it’s the boy. And when the son does finally run away, Siddharta builds a raft to go searching for him. He wanders the forest for many days, he sits outside the city for many hours, longing for the son to return. In other words, it is the son that abandons the father, not the father that abandons the son. The novel makes this fact explicit when Vasudeva reminds Siddharta that this is exactly what Siddharta himself did as a boy, stubbornly setting out on his own. Letting his son go (though he was never really Siddharta’s to control anyway) was therefore a profound act of understanding and patience. ALSO, so what if Hesse’s life was a mess? So what if he “abandoned” his own family responsibilities? Who are we to judge? Have we never abandoned our responsibilities? And why should we deride him for writing a story that depicts the kind of human that Hesse, and that we all, aspire to become: a patient, forbearing parent who respects his children’s agency? Hesse, the seeker, has given us a powerful depiction of the enlightenment he was seeking, not the enlightenment he claimed to attain in his life. It’s easy to find fault in others, but as Hamlet reminds us, “Use every man after his desert, and who shall 'scape whipping?”
It's probably shouldn't be the focus of the book. This part of the story is to explain the concept that not letting go leads to pain. He learns from everyone and everything. The book is to inspire audiences to do the same: discover and learn knowledges of almost any kind, definitely not to judge the morality of the main character.
What occurs to me is the warning: “Don’t look for heroes!” Lots of characters in art and literature or their creators have issues. Take things as the are; they are struggling humans as we all are. Pull what poetry, enjoyment and wisdom you can and forget the rest.
Don't forget that even the man who became "The Buddha" abandoned his wife and infant son... in addition to other relations and an entire kingdom he was supposed to rule. There's no worldly "ointment" that doesn't have "flies" in it. I'm 100% sure Jesus had issues too, he just had a PR team to keep them out of print. Yes, take what's helpful in what's encountered, but also acknowledge and account for what is not helpful. The less than helpful is there. We can't lie to ourselves that it's not. There are aspects in which they actually can be helpful, as counters. For example, the "flies" can help us not to deify people. They can show us how -not- to to be. They can help us accept our own selves despite our own "flies"... etc.
Idk. Characters I created do not have "issues" although I have (C)PTSD (and - with small probability - some other stuff of which I'm not aware of). Then, I don't think that we just have to put aside smth. I mean, we can if it's some single piece of art - while throwing others away. Yet we should comprehend every of them in their wholesomeness (or lack of it). Speaking of Hesse, I tried to read a few of his works - and just couldn't. I was turned off by his pseudo-philosophy/pseudo-wisdom.
My opinion is that sometimes the Buddhistic/ ascetic type of belief is more appealing to people who want to break free from the pressure/consequence a society puts on a person for certain behavior/action. Exp: a person wants to be enlightened and wise and yet also has strong desires and urges sexually and otherwise. And maybe have a hard time or perhaps do not want to integrate that in a healthy way, but rather have a more black and white, this or that outlook. This dissociation sometimes creates a pretext for taking less or no responsibility for their actions. What happens is that the conscience starts working in a manner as the saying goes "out of sight out of mind".
Also, it’s a bit of fantasy- using another culture’s norms to excuse their behavior in their own culture. Seems a bit Gas-lightly to me. “Other cultures are structured so that communities share responsibility for child raising, therefore I shouldn’t have to bear that responsibility myself.”- Herman Hesse (probably)
I watched the whole video but I do not believe Herman himself entirely agrees with Siddhartha's actions, as he is just a character and not a role model. Just like Steppenwolf, I don't think Herman agrees and encourages Harry's (Steppenwolf's) despaired and nihilist ideas
he idealised the character too soon into the book. reader was not critical while reading. he was not aware about the spiritual frauds in his early reading times.
Hopefully my critique of your opinion will help you to appreciate this book again: the time period of the book was estimated at around 625 b.c., not now, nor even close to when Hermann Hesse lived. Moreover, India at the time when Hesse was there probably still resembled 625 b.c. in so many ways. That said, it was not uncommon for boys to leave home back then and to become men at 11 years old--even in recent history! Imagine how less populated, safe, and hospitable India would have been in 625 b.c. Clearly their only worry was wild life. The boy instinctively probably knew that someone would take him in and clearly his immature mind thought this peasant ferryman " his father" was beneath him. I personally think Hesse's ability to capture the time period was brilliant and it's what drew me in.
Great thank you. I think you should do a series of these!! Many of us clung to various books in our earlier years, because we had absolutely no one to get guidance from! I’d love to hear thoughts on ‘The Art of Loving’ by Erich Fromm.
I can’t particularly remember it now. I just remember it was about focusing on one’s ‘ability to love’ rather than be loved. So while my boyfriend was having an affair, I a very vulnerable abused young person, was reading this.. and choosing to love better.. There was no information in those days about abusive people. But so many books on love, forgiveness and improving your self-confidence with stupid affirmations. In hindsight most of them were probably written by narcissists.
@@annastone5624 1. On the other hand, aren't books focusing on how to be loved often written by narcissists? 2. I don't like this book - which I red multiple times - much as well now: it is written in a paradigm caused by his ancestry. Yet I find it valueable for many - too many, unfortunately - for many people who are unable to love properly. Although I never liked the "love to god" part.
@heirofthespirit 1: that would be a narcissist writing for other narcissists..☺️ .. in my experience narcissists groom whatever audience they can get their hands on.. training them to be better narcissistic supply.. to love, forgive, etc etc.. & narcissistic people love to preach. On the other hand, those of us who have been victimized, tend to be running around trying to protect other people, warning them, telling them to be careful..
Consider Elon Musk and Albert Einstein. Like Hesse, these men were recognized by society as having contributed something great (Hesse was awarded a Nobel prize for his work). However, all three of these men, according to their children, were lousy fathers. Perhaps this reality is a reflection of the tradeoff between leading an impact and living life.
My parents (and honestly much of my family) were fairly cold. Not physically abusive, but cold, critical, and neglectful. My Mom left us and my Dad was never the same...married someone else, and by my early twenties - he pretty much abandoned me too. I have no siblings. Now different from Hermann, I haven't married and therefore don't have children. Of course, I didn’t have that burning desire to procreate or be a parent outside of not finding a partner, so it all never really bothered me. I've always assumed that has something to do with my parents and family being emotionally distant, who knows?? I mean how do we give, or want something (like becoming a parent) if we never experienced that bond enough from our own parents and family?? 🤔 HOWEVER, that doesn't mean I'm selfish or cold, I love and have deep emotions (luckily) and have spent my adult life on my education and a career in healthcare and any parental nurturing instincts were acted out by caring for my Grandparents in their last years, including being my Grandfather's sole live-in caregiver for a few years - which if I had a spouse and children, I could've never had the ability or time or energy to do! Some people, such as myself, were probably not meant to be parents to children. Maybe some of us are meant to care for elders instead (as in my case). Or maybe some are meant to be in healthcare (my case too), or the care of animals or yes, even of self spending time healing childhood wounds. Therefore, parenting or nurturing can be shown in many ways. Maybe this book, for Hermann was just a reflection of his thinking on the subject.. a commentary of sorts, and not something to be judged. Of course people will judge everything 🙄 but many novels are just reflective of a thought made into a larger story. Also, this is an author born in the 1800s and obviously life and societies were vastly different in many ways than they are now. To look at Hermann himself, or his work with today's lens is unfair - plus we don't really know what he was thinking regarding Siddhartha. Maybe it was autobiographical to some extent, but maybe it was just a question he had... a way to work out any issues he may have had regarding parenting and his independent mindset, and him exploring through his writing these themes. How much freedom should we have (us ourselves, and our children), etc... Today people seem to be helicopter parents, trying to right their own abandonment issues by over-indulging their children. Back then, this was not the standard way to parent. The argument can be made that any extreme is detrimental, but also that either way, there is always a cost.
Wow, so much wisdom and maturity in your words and life! Which maybe you wouldn't have developed without the trauma you've been through. I have somewhat similar experiences at some points. For me my grandparents saved my life and being their caregiver as they were leaving was one of the most enriching experiences of my life, every atom of my being was thankful that I can be there for them (also wouldn't have been able if I had children). I also fully agree that parenting and nurturing can be shown in so many ways and so many people (as caretakers in one way or another) would be at a loss if it wasn't so. Take care ❤
Well this shows how emotionally unhealed Hermann Hesse was. This is why, in my opinion, no one should have children before they've completely healed from their wounds and trauma.
@@basketballfan5763 yes and thats not a bad thing. The human species wont go extinct. It would be a relief for humans and the planet if we would stop collectively, atleast for a few years to reproduce. This would be the best for us humans, the planet, the animals and for the next generations to come. They would be born in a better place. We are all able to heal our core wounds so that we atleast can have a healthy loving relationship with our children
What is super interesting to note here is that the historical Siddharta Gautama left his palace the day his son Rahula was born. The tradition has it that Gautama realised his son would impede his spiritual search and wanted his son to live a common life. It reads like a man running away from his responsibilities, for sure, but we can also give the man the benefit of the doubt as he did actually become the Buddha. Well, what to say. I feel the time has come now to find enlightenment within the modern homemaker / family environment, which can be experienced as an incredible challenge as kids and domestic duties can be seen as an incredible distraction OR as the most direct path to true *integrated* enlightenment. What good is it to sit meditating under a tree when we have come to and into this world to actually be in it with all of its inner and outer complications? The term dissociation is very interesting as well in relation to the enlightenment of the Buddha, especially as it actually brought something new into the world with the Middle Path and all benefits of what the Buddha taught and showed by example. It does read as wry that he only returned back home to his son and wife 7 years after his enlightenment, which is also when his ideals were put to the practical test (and he often did not answer tricky questions!). The time has come to take that and many other teachings of enlightenment and put them solidly within a complicated, loud, exhausting family home to find the true nugget of mental gold. As my wife always says: that which you seek on your esoteric exploration is already right in front of you when your sons walk into the room. And she herself as well, of course ;)
I think sometimes in those Eastern traditions, sadly, leaving one's child to pursue enlightenment it's acceptable. I think the Christian tradition differs in that people are bound to their temporal responsibilities to marriage and family. However I believe some of the early apostles had children that they left behind. :(
I am not sure if Siddharta really became Buddha. This is just a belief. Also when he at first accepted only males as a monks, some of them were married and had children. They just abandond their wifes and children, so many woman became prostitutes to survive. Later, woman could also become monks but the damage was already done. Almost nobody is talking about that.
The problem with most comments here is that we no longer approach art through a tradition of Classics. We have - or had - a canon so that we don't have to relate to art through our mundane lives. Siddhartha is not a sitcom. Unfortunately our institutions have been hollowed out.
I found this very insightful as my mother always seems like a child to me growing up and I have at 50 remained like a little girl in many many ways😢 thank you for this wonderful unusual opinion for a psychoanalyst to end up not really respecting the spiritual life is very interesting for me to hear... the spiritual life never overrules material obligation is true of course but we like to run away from that don't we.... I think both my father and my mother were not happy at being landed with us children which is very very sad... this is making me think a lot about things now... thank you.
I imagine some simple steps would have been all that would have been needed... to talk to all of his children more and to use some of his money to help his wives and his children
I read the book in my early 60s, and as it was, my adult son (30-ish) was having personal struggles and began a period in which he dropped out of contact with me for about 3 years, and it was a painful thing for a mother. The passage about the boy wanting to go back to his own people was a comfort to me. The reality is that we must let go of our children, releasing them to their own path, and being aware that what we demand if them is often rooted in our own selfish needs. At the time, i didn't think Siddhartha was abandoning the boy. I had the idea that the boy had a community of carers that knew him and he felt understood and nurtured by them, and that this suddenly dropped-in father meant little to the boy, therefore, the loving thing was to release him back to his own life. That brought me tears of sorrow, along with comfort, knowing I had to do the same thing for my adult "child". It brought a great deal of acceptance and humility to me. ❤ Also, the fact that Hesse was a flawed man doesn't negate, for me, the value of his writing. I hold them in separate places, not conflated, I guess.
@@MrVafflis💯There’s no comparison between a man in his 30’s disconnecting and a child who’s father has no interest in his child. If he was so enlightened he would have followed the child and offered what he could. And it would have been a better book. But instead we got the musings of another self involved, narcissistic novelist.
I think it is impossible to be enlightened and abandon your child. Siddhartha seems to be just sticking his head in the sand, avoiding what is hard and doing what feels good. I never really understood the term enlightenment, it always seems kind of disconnected and selfish. Perhaps we begin life enlightened as babies and children and then lose our way in all the human madness. Or when I see the cows grazing in the field nearby, they look quite enlightened to me.
Siddhartha takes the son in and would like to teach him modesty and calm, as he is only used to the luxurious life of the city. In doing so, however, he unknowingly commits the same mistake that he once accused his own father of: Siddhartha believes that by shielding himself from the world he can spare the young Siddhartha the path to knowledge. After the severe blows of fate, Hesse decided to make a radical cut. He left the house in Bern, divorced his wife and in the meantime left his sons with friends. This left its mark on his children - his youngest son Martin in particular loved his father more than anything and suffered greatly from it. Hermann Hesse retired to the country alone. He turned his back on the world and felt free in the solitude of nature. What a bastard. He calls it "enlightening!"
The irony is it could've eventually been if he hadn't had children like he did. Or if he'd waited until they were mature and independent enough to be separated. But then, what else would be different about his story? And his wife would have to be ok with it too. So it's hard to say. His life reminds me of my dad's; wrapped up in responsibility but most of the "wisdom" he really had came from being torn apart and beaten down by the abusers in his life, and attempting to avoid that trauma, just to not have to face it again. Just a couple of thoughts.
So who are the perpetrators? Hesse was a bastard and the family the victims. Then he resorted to projection and probably also called it "enlightening!"@@mikeexits
But he did spare him, he understood that he could not be a good father to his child no matter how hard he tried, and he made the right choice, thinking it would be for "greater good", because I think at 11 years old the child would be better off alone than with a parent that would judge him and see the bad in him, because he himself never had a childhood. There is a point in that, and although I know that abandoning your children is bad, but I'd prefer that in my life over being continously traumautized further by my parents who were trying to "make my life better". Passive aggression in my opinion is worse than just letting someone go. Of course, Siddhartha sacrificed himself there, and if he wouldn't be enmeshed in his own trauma, he would see that he could help his child, but at the same time he probably thought there is no way out of it
I have paused this video a couple of seconds in to tell you that growing up in an abusive home that was my favourite book as a late teen I would take to a wooded walk area by a lake and read the chapter 'by the river' over and over..... I feel the book kept me sane. That's been 30 years now and my mother who was the abuser is now in a nursing home and only recently I went to counselling still talking about her and the lasting effect her abuse of me had on my life. I am a woman and I've never had children and so I did and I didn't like your video about people not having children... I do believe I made the right decision because honestly I think I might have abused them out of anger over the free life you lose as a woman when you have a child....I gave you a thumbs up as I like you on the way in to this video and I find it so interesting that I knew it was that book the minute I saw the picture and I could not read the text and I did not know that picture and that version of this book ever😂 I will take what you say whatever it is as an opinion and I will be delighted to have it from you..... I found you a very interesting character and a very sensitive intuitive type of councillor and I am thinking you have helped a lot of people in your career without you ever knowing
Why should Hermann Hesse be and behave what you think is right?People are diffrent and there is not much we can do about it!A Tiger will never going vegan,and we cant change much how we are!Some just have a more easy caracter then others,so its easyer for them do the "right" thing!
Surely a child needs at some point to separate from parents and find their own way. The point is whether this separation is motivated by child's wellbeing or parent's.
Beloved Daniel, I just finished reading this book for the first time and if you'll allow me a different perspective I have to say that from what I can tell, you are letting your own "lens" colour how you see this part in the story. In your mind what Siddartha did was very self-serving and egocentric -(because, and forgive me, but perhaps, it is you that considers children a burden) whereas in reality the pain of allowing your child to exist, not as an extension of yourself and not as a means for you to fulfil your "duty" is the most selfless thing that you can do. You also neglected the part in the story where Siddartha is reminded by the River (that laughs at him and his pain of separating from his son) that, this is exactly what happened with him when he ran away from his father. It is a tale as old as time and part of the cycle of evolution that the child should to "rebel", be free to carve their own path...no matter how "enlightened" the parent is.
What's troubling is that many parents don't see as "obligations" what you see as "obligations". Maybe what happens is that those parents become parents, and nothing they were taught or believe actually feels ethically obligatory, if they were taught at all, and they just do what they feel like doing. Real responsible parenting may be more of a taught tradition that includes an awareness of parental "obligations" that is based on treating a child in the way a parent should have been treated as a child, rather than an innate awareness that is either chosen or disregarded. While I see it as astonishing that a parent would abandon a child, I am dealing with my own abandonment and a friend who seems to have abandoned a child, and so reality is far different than the way I think it should be. And, parents who abandon a child, in the countless ways that are possible emotionally (and in some physical ways), appear on the surface to be supporting a child to those who don't want to look closely, and those parents are supported by lots of areas of society that systemically abuse children. To restate: I suspect many parents, who have issues from childhood themselves, find out that society will do nothing (except condone) abusing, controlling, and degrading their children, and that they are free to do whatever they choose... and those numerous parents are incompetent to choose well because they have been trained to abuse in the most powerful place: their own childhoods.
Furthermore, the ironic contrast between the complete slavery the abandoned/neglected child is subjected to by the parents in charge, and the "freedom" an abandoning/abusing parent finds they have in what they do to their own children, is chilling/creepy/horrifying. The abandoned/abused child is enslaved by traumas inflicted on them, and then, if they become parents, they find the most freedom they have in their lives is to abandon/abuse their own children.
The true revealing test of anyone, as a parent, is what they do when they are faced with the actual situations that have been when other parents have abandoned/abused their children. No matter what anyone says, whether they have become aware of their own traumas or not, it's only when they are in the role as parent, day to day, hour to hour, that they face what other parents have faced, and then see what they might become, or not become. I believe that an abandoned/abused/neglected child has slim chance of being a "good-enough" parent: they just have too much to overcome.
I used to have a simplistic psychological understanding years ago about parents "they just had sex and that's it". Then I became more nuanced and sophisticated.......and here I am now going back to my original thought. Parents are just a man and a woman who had sex. Period. Almost no one ever made the conscious decisions to do it "right"....even has a notion of what IS "right". There's a lot of fears around fitting in "as a good parent" in society...but like you said.............a sick society reinforces bad ideas about aprenting.
@@jeanlundi2141 You are very wrong. Some parents are good, caring, they plan the life of their child, they nurture him, ask him how he feels and provide what is needed for him to develop and be the best version of yourself. Have you had a good childhood yourself? I too thought before that maybe if my parents are like that, then all the others may be that or worse, but that is the most debiliating and stupid thoughts to have. It hurts you and it pains you, and this is literally not true. Try watching anime, my man, try to see some real life in there. It saved my cursed and broken soul from believing that what is unhealthy and pointless and hurtful is good and healthy
You made a video on how fathers sexualize thire doughters. And how this is ingreained in cultures all over the world. I can t find that video anymore. Have you deleted it?
Siddhartha or Gautam Buddha as he was later referred to was a crown prince. Prior to renouncing his family life, he was married and had a son. After renunciation, he didn't engage in sex with any woman. The book isn't stating the facts correctly. When Siddhartha left the palace, he knew his wife and son will be well taken care of because in the Royal family, there were not just his old parents but extended family of numerous uncles and aunts. However, his wife must have missed her husband's company and his son must have missed his dad's guidance and presence. Neither money nor other people can replace that. Once he attained enlightenment, his wife and son became his followers but he continued to live the life of a renunciant.
This book about another Siddhartha who lived in the time of the historical Buddha, the Buddha's contemporary, if you will. I think the character Siddhartha meets the Buddha in passing in the book, or something like that.
I think the story is suggesting that in order to achieve enlightenment and ultimately union with all things, one must experience everything, hence the metaphors of living with the ascetics practicing self denial and then moving to the city and practicing gluttony. Siddhartha needed to have a child and ultimately consciously chose to abandon that child in order to experience the pain of sacrificing his son. The metaphor of his son leaving parallels the beginning of the story when Siddhartha left against his father's wishes. This suggests and reiterates one of the main points of the book that everyone must walk their own path. Further it is an ineffective argument to bring the personal troubles of the author into consideration, as Siddhartha is merely a fiction novel speculating on the spiritual journey and the mystery of enlightenment. I am sorry that you did not enjoy the book after re-reading it again. While I do not condone anyone not taking responsibility for their own actions in real life, I found the book to be one of the most profound spiritual books I have ever read.
The tragic problem is, if someone is truly healthy and loves themselves sufficiently, they never feel any "need" to have children. The tragedy is anyone who can be a really good parent, is the least likely to eventually end up becoming one. A great example in my opinion is actually yourself, Daniel!
@@nickbaigent2714 No he means that people who are most conscientious/realizing the weight/importance of having a child are likely to delay or have less children because of they are more responsible.
And then, for most people the modern society is toxic, stressful and traumatic. Even if you could be a "great parent" and try to grow an emotionally healthy child the rest of the world will still traumatize him, because being emotionally healthy is not the norm. Knowing this one should think, should you bring another being into this existence of suffering?
@@alexxx4434you can check some of my other comments in that I totally agree with you that people with problems should not have children ever but to not have children because the World Is Evil is something I don't agree with
@@basketballfan5763 The world is not "evil" it's toxic, traumatized and traumatizing. You can basically call it sick. And "people with problems" which are all too common are the consequence of the toxic environment. The system is at fault here, rather than particular people.
I read Siddhartha and Steppenwolfe back-to-back in my freshman college dorm at 18 and ALL that I got from the experience was a HIGH that I'd arrived to sit at the figurative bohemian intellectual's table to hobnob with the cool kids. Nothing said in either book stayed with me once the trophy-ism of having joined the club of having read the name dropping books wore off after a few weeks or so. It seems to me certain books feel self-satisfying to read in the moment just as much as the author felt self-satisfied in the time of writing to pen said books-- everyone wins all around for indulging their intellectual pretenses of what ifs for a little while, yet nothing fundamentally changes or sticks. That being said, it's like the saying of needing to kiss some frogs before meeting your prince that a person needs to hone their conception of high art, philosophy, spiritual ideals, healing or what not THROUGH processing the dross of much hyped books. You won't have a relative benchmark for the good without experiencing lesser attempts along the way-- ergo Hesse's point that life is learned through the living of it, direct reckonings. Thank you Hesse for the reading high once upon a time, it was a nice rush.
Hey, Daniel In the book, it was clear the child wanted no association with the father. For me, I thought the theme of this event was trying to play into a theme of Karma. Something like: 'Siddhartha runs away from home and abandons his father. Later in life his own son abandons him.' Though granted this theme perhaps could have been better served if the son was 18 and not 11
I really appreciate a critical view on something that is considered a " great classic". I also see a lot of strong negative emotions towards this video in the comments which boggles my mind.
I feel the same about Der Steppenwolf! I carried it around a lot when I was 20 and bought copies for all my family to read. Except I felt there was something not quite right with it. Now a few years later I feel Hermann Hesse was a really broken, emotionally damaged guy. It's clear that Steppenwolf and the 'enlightenment' or 'healing' that the novel is about is not actually real healing, but about justifying repression and celebrating avoiding the truth... It's a celebration of 'being happy' and 'feeling good' and superficiality as a way of getting out of a depressive funk. Just feeling good, over healing. Typical narcissistic rubbish. I saw somewhere, when reading a lot about him online, that Hesse was abused and hated a lot by his parents as a child, and that they actually sent him to a psychiatric institution, blaming him for acting out as abusive parents do. I say this to point out how much he had to heal and face up to. His problem wasn't about needing to find a spiritual enlightenment and create enough cognitive dissonance to make himself stop feeling bad. How can you be enlightened and never mention the way your parents treated you? You get it - Hesse failed at life. Dazai Osamu, an extremely famous Japanese author, was exactly the same, wasting his life spewing out the same stories again and again. Endless denial and never growing or progressing in understanding what happened and why he feels so bad. Abusing those around him... A failure at life.
Dazai helped me realize what I didnt want to be in life. I didnt got such a strong rapport with Hesse, even though I read like 3 of his books. Either way, glad to see someone else understands why their artistic legacy is more useful as a well of psychological lessons!
But why do you think enlightenment is the point and main topic of the book? Has Hesse or anybody else close to him said that? I feel that this is a book written for his own soul, its just that other people like that and think that buddhism is "enlightenment". No, it is not. Sitting before a tree your whole life is very selfish and stupid, but this way you abandon your trauma. I think this book is about it, if its about anything at all. "Dont commit my mistakes", its like Hesse says just that
If youtube existed back then for Herman he might have had a chance to contemplate his disassociation from his childhood wounds. I guess what I'm trying to say is we are ignorant until we learn and absorb new information. I was ignorant and disassociated for years and years about the abuse I suffered at the hands of my parents during my childhood. Bit by bit I found out what I needed to know in order heal but it's it's been a long and winding journey of dead ends, bad therapists and horrible medications until I got there in the end.
As someone who is enlightenment bound, I have always noticed (and remembered) that children are spiritually pure and great teachers of truth by nature. Being my son's mother has been the best experience of my life, regardless of his irresponsible father. No one else has challenged me to be more myself and inspired such fierce love and self sacrifice. The only times I regret are when I would take too much time to write books. It's interesting how many people of particular genius that we adore, like Einstein, were actually awful in their family lives. No one is perfect, but we can do better ❤
For those interested, a side note: 'Hesse' is pronounced with an "e" at the end like a short 'a', no 'ee' though. The same for the 'e' in his first name. Everybody is doing his or her best. If you don't grow up, you are stuck in the past. Still the ending can also Interpreted as acknowledging that sometimes parents are not apt to be in the life of their children. I understood it as such am acknowledgement and the kid knowing where to find the father as he stayed stationary and his boy needed to explore the world first. But I get the point and legitimate criticism, also based on Hesse's own life.
always fascinating to come back to old pieces of media that we found insightful when we were younger. often, like you, i find things that bother me that I'm able to articulate much better now than when I first read them. this example of a character who ignores the plight of their young person is so common
Hi Daniel, are you familiar with Gabor Mate and his work on trauma? He has published many books, the newest one being "The Myth of Normal". There are many interviews with him on youtube, and I see so many similarities between the two of you and your view of society and trauma. It would be great to see you two in a discussion/interview or to just hear your thoughts on him :)
Isn’t it interesting though that this impacts you more greatly because you have a lived experienced of feeling abandoned. Your perspective illuminates parts of the book that otherwise others may not care for.
I was thinking the same. Few days ago my very adult friend (50+) found out that she has a half-sister that her dad always tried to deny because "it wasn't possible"- until they all decided he should do a DNA test. And it was positive, imagine that. My reaction was biased by my own experience, an immature animal-impulse driven father who after my birth decided that he doesn't want a wife and a child after all because he rather wants to fuck around. So my still unhealed biased point of view was the same as Daniel's, and I couldn't help but wonder if he also had an unhealed trauma regardless father. Maybe he has mentioned it in another video, I'm new here (2nd video I've seen on this channel)
In my opinion, you are overlooking something obvious: billions of men around the world fulfill their fatherly duties, but only a very few, by comparison, become famous artists, scientists, or similar figures. If Hesse had been a good father, it's highly likely that he would not have become a Nobel Prize-winning author, cherished by millions for decades. The same applies to Einstein, who, by the way, was a terrible father and husband. Individuals like Hesse and Einstein offer the world their books and scientific insights-these works and ideas are their 'children.' Perhaps the world would be a better place if every man who had children was also a good father. However, it would also be a completely different place, and perhaps one where great achievements in literature and science were much rarer.
You don't get it, the life of every one of us is what it is. We struggle to overcome our flaws but you judgemental humans see things from your personal narrow point of view. I am glad you are not someone people come to seek help because you would never be able to understand anybody who does not fit in your personal standards. You did not get the book at all.
This reminds me sadly of catholic priest children, who mostly suffer of being illegal, hidden, stuck in the midst of lies, while their fathers remain holy men.
Wow, this is the first time I see someone else addressing the fact that Hesse's novels feel like repeating the same theme of being thorn between the world of Matter and the world of Spirit. As a person who entered an adulthood studying Jungian psychoanalysis, I couldn't help but feel like he conveying something I already know deep inside. Hesse is a pure pleasure to read when it comes to language, and this longing for abandoning the outer world and running away from earthly quests and responsibilities is pretty much relatable to me, but the real facts from his biography definitely makes this idea way less romantic. I definitely still feel deep connection with his struggles, but one should always think twice before taking anyone's 'wise' insights as a sacred truth.
Nobody throws away a copy of Siddhartha.... Nobody finds a pile of books with Herman Hesse novels included. 😊 i guess you're in America 😊. Life is about the path a person wishes to follow. The method is to observe what happens in life without judgment Great research... the new yorker 😊... now that is an extremely hilarious source. 😊. Nothing like following newspapers for information... sounds like a great source, hehehe 😜. You Americans ❤️. Hahaha 😊... drink the kool aid.
I sense that it is extra heartbreaking to be let down by Siddhartha and Herman Hesse because he is talking about oneness, enlightenment, and spirituality, which are things that take advantage of the human tendency to worship, to believe, and to be vulnerable. If you learned anything from Siddhartha, then herman hesse didn't fail. I imagine this book is extra heartbreaking though because you project perfection into the spiritual. Human failings are always amplified in spirituality. I believe everything in the book is true on one level, and on another level is a lie ;) Thank you for your video!
Hi Dan, I’ve recently found your channel and I’ve been delighted to find that much of what you say is in alignment with my own observations. Thanks for your work. I think it would be interesting to hear your take on pet ownership and if people use this added responsibility to avoid facing their traumas and flaws!
Siddhartha felt every emotions in that book but there was one emotions he was devoid of and it was losing a son. That’s exactly what his father felt when Siddhartha left house. Siddhartha didn’t get enlightenment until he felt that last emotion and learned to let that go. I think that’s what the story is about, renouncing all worldly affairs and going through every emotion without succumbing to them. “You’ve experienced suffering Siddhartha, but I see, no sadness has entered your heart.”
Just finished the book. Siddhartha took the kid in without hesitation and tried his best to please him, even when the kid started yelling and cursing at him. When the kid fled, against the ferryman's advice, Siddhartha chased after him and was gutted (and suffered a long time after) when he realised that the kid would indeed be better off by himself. He was barely a father, but not a bad one. You're not focusing on the story
he is focusing on his personal issues
The name Siddhartha refers to the name of the historical Buddha, who, according to the legend, also had a son and left him when starting his spiritual journey.
And went back to, after nirvana, to share his wisdom with his child Rahula so that he can free himself from suffering too if he wanted. Half-knowledge is dangerous
@@Anjali-mh5hg That says nothing about whether he was a good parent or not.
@@jeanlundi2141That would depend upon whether or not you believe that the teachings really result in liveratiin from suffering or not. If they do, what better gift for your child? If not, maybe it's not an antidote to being an absent father.
Or maybe Buddha had simply succeeded in setting up a brand new parallel kingdom in place of his father's monarchy.
@@Anjali-mh5hg Buda do same Sidartha so no difrent only difrent Rahul stay with mother but we dontknow hoa Sidartha soon survive. Actual Hese make world deep state of supreme art he wake up people in sense to beyond to your true nature he whose not like spiritual lieder make rules he just become like he is truly himself with no eny regualacion . Today budist monk in the time of covid tirany restriction folow order and take promote vacine mask separation ..Hese neve folow world order and he talk abut this in Demian book in Bokss og perl so he is real amezing free human like he say im not the tree in forest but one big tree who stay alčone and egzist eternal
I feel the dad did the only thing he could do. To go in the town would mean death for him, and the child staying would be death for the child. He did the hardest thing a parent can ever do and that's let go the child.The child needed what would be most painful to the parent other than his death and he did that. Can you see this perspective?
If he was a normal guy with no problems, would you have read his book? Maybe it would have been boring and mundane. You have to accept the totality of him as an individual. If you would have liked to have done things differently, maybe this author made you think about and realize that. That can be the point of writing also to shine a light on the good and the bad as well.
That's right, Siddhartha was a failure. After so much effort, he achieved nothing, and caused all kinds of trouble. My own (alcoholic) father kept trying to be a father, but the more he tried, the more trouble he caused. I had to distance from him. He needed to sort himself out, but never had the tools to. He was the quintessential failure, and he had to live with that. Approaching death sobered him up, at which point his true courage became apparent. I miss him. In my own disasters, he is the one person who would understand.
Hug you. Based on your words, i believe you are wise and strong
Many spiritual teachers including Edgar Cayce wrote that "we choose our own parents pre-birth to experience the life we want to live and experience. Example: If we were victimizing in a past life, we may choose to be a victim. If we were rich, we might choose to be poor. All things work together for our benefits. We just use this earthly body to experience through our five senses until it's time to leave it all behind and play in another role in another play. We are energy and energy never dies just transforms. We are love, light and life expressing the I AM.
Although I agree with you, I think, in addition to censure, Hesse also "needs" compassion, because presumably, he was failed by his own parents as well.
Hey Dan, I didn't get that impression about Siddhartha. Rather that being an estranged father was part of his life journey especially already old/middle-aged man and trying to be a father then. I think the book intentionally wanted to an unideal childhood setting for the boy: that it was especially tragic and heart-wrenching that he had to try to raise a rebellious son who lost his mother early. It was all part of the story, and we can't use 20th century psychology+child development to judge someone in early recorded history in SE Asia.
Hesse always wrote the novel he wished he could have read to shape his life 5 years befor. Siddhartha was a novel intended for an elderly self. For a man past middle age. I really enjoyed your take
This was certainly a revelation about the author Herman Hesse for me. You model inquisitiveness in a great way, Daniel.
I recall listening to an audiobook recording of the novel years ago. However I only vaguely remember the contents in the book, in retrospect maybe because I didn't learn much from it.
More speculatively, books like perhaps this one sometimes leave me scratching my head, feeling stupid for not getting it. Maybe sometimes that feeling of obliviousness arises when one in fact does understand that the material itself is oblivious, and perhaps the ensuing self-doubt reveals a deep truth of our childhood: we were tasked with understanding the world because our parents wouldn't - out of dissociation, denial, self-absorption. My own parents were utterly oblivious about the world and considered themselves pragmatic in so far as they figured out how to survive in the world. So I had to "go out and explore the world" many times at great personal expense.
From a fellow Daniel, you bring me strength, glad I found your channel, thanks for being your authentic self
Totally agree with you and glad you bring up these unique subjects. No enlightenment without exactly... being an adult...love you saying that
you need to be a parent to fully be an adult and you need to be an adult to be enlightened. I read siddhatha as a kid and felt uncomfortable about some bits.. might have been these.
Tired of people belittling family and responsibility to act cool. Noone is so great at anything that they can fail their responsibility and should still be honoured
I mostly disagree. But I’ll have to think about it for awhile to articulate it. Hopefully I can remember to come back and do that.
Trauma is definitely a subset of suffering. But there will be suffering even without trauma.
It is important to understand this point as trauma cannot be made the do all and be all of all human problems.
I enjoyed reading Siddhartha, Steppenwolf, and Hesse's fairly obscure novel, Gertrud. I wasn't really impressed by Beneath the Wheel. I'd love to hear more of your opinion on Hesse's Steppenwolf.
Funny, I wasn't impressed with Beneath the Wheel either. Narcissus and Goldmund was good, though, and another obscure one, Knulp.
I started to read Steppenwolf some years ago - and found it unreadable;: empty.
That’s really ugly indeed. A lot of people abandoned responsibilities and love the same way.
It's the age-old dilemma of the successful career, I think, and the sickness that results from being unable to judge how much is enough success. Hesse through Siddhartha is exploring intellectual/artistic self-sufficiency. It always amazes me how Siddhartha justifies his dissolute lifestyle to himself as necessary shedding the illusions of his Brahminic upbringing in the goal of becoming a wise soul.
There is no "enlightenment". Abandoning family is not cool.
Even if you don't know you have one?
Why not?Maybe there are more importend things?yMaybe not!Maybe its the best for the family to!Better then terrorizing the family!Why do we have to live by the morals of other people?This are the real questions!
Thank you for another great video. Would you please consider making a video about "gaslighting" please?
also let us remember that the novel is set in the time of The Buddha 480-500 BC, the time now is way different, maybe if Siddhartha had access to netflix and porn, maybe if he lived in 2023 his journey would have been different...i know every book has something to teach us, but this book is antiquated
Great video as always...What I find very interesting is that Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk on his book: The Body Keeps The Score on page 32 says exactly the same thing you said about what Freud said: " the compulsion to repeat" and that there is a truly truly scary thing. Please make a video on that topic. Thanks and God Bless You.
Putting aside Hesse's personal life, Siddhartha's relationship with his son was meant to be the last lesson for the main character: that he must, like his father did when he was young, let go of his son and allow him to experience his destiny. The point was that Siddhartha was trying to protect his son from real suffering, and to let go of it was the lesson he learned from the Ferryman: the point isn't that children aren't to be cared for at all, but that they must be allowed to individuate -- they can't be protected forever. Same trope as Sleeping Beauty and her parents. I think you're reading the events too literary: the whole story really must be read through a Jungian-archetypal lens. It starts to make more sense that way.
Good
Brother is Emotional intelligence exist in character of Siddartha. If exist please tell me i am going to do research on it
Sounds like my own dad … freely told me I was in the “too hard basket” ironic really , considering how self sufficient and low maintenance I am.
With respect, I find that Hesse is simply emulating the life of the real Buddha with the fictional Siddhartha. The real Buddha abandoned his child at the age of 29 according to the tradition. Hesse in my estimation doesn’t want to leave this detail out, but does what he can to humanize the situation. I think readers are expecting a western Silas Marner kind of adoption scene. But this is ancient India.
I think it's important to remember that enlightenment doesn't necessarily have a moral dimension. There are spiritually awake people who are jerks, and even truly evil.
But then they are not spiritually awake...or what is your definition of being spiritually awake?
@@mlimun Seeing through the illusion of the individual self on a consistent basis.
But wouldn't we say that "evil state" is a lack of love and when you're enlightened there's no lack?
@@mlimun No I wouldn't. Love is only one part of an always shifting spectrum of emotions human beings can experience. Enlightenment is a process of continuous disengagement with the conventional sense of self. There have been many spiritual gurus who clearly exhibited the traits of having real spiritual insight while still conducting often highly unethical behaviour.
Kinda surprised by the number of people here who have (consciously or unconsciously) wedded the notion of enlightenment to moral purity. I'm pretty sure the novel explicitly rejects the good/evil binary towards the end when Siddhartha finally, truly experiences "oneness". It's not that good and evil "don't exist", just that they are immaterial for someone who has become One.
Nikola Tesla pointed out that a married person or a person with children was not free to be a creator.... one always suffers.
Nikola Tesla is my hero.
We see ourselves in mirrors and our own inner eye. But, the potential and possibility we know of ourselves is limited by self (degradation). Movie makers and artists make their characters "relatable". Once the audience has their mind hooked to the character, whatever the character does, the reader thinks he does. I would suggest people - each video, book is a program and an algorithm. Nobody is interested in giving you the correct information and the exact information you need. Please digest the product at your own caution. Chew well. Eat in proportion. Go slow. Dont gulp it. Even if its tasty.
I'm very sceptical about the view that trauma is everywhere, all the time for children and young people. And I'm very sceptical of screwed up adults retrofitting trauma into their childhoods.
Yes!
I just today read the book. I even waited to watch your video until after I had finished reading it.
I am a bit disappointed. I find your criticism to be a bit arbitrary.
With all do respect with the book having heavy themes of the fundamental reality of our existence etc. I find judging a persons decision based on your own cultural understanding if manlyhood and "if you fail as a parent you fail at live" to be a bit undifferentiated.
Ah, did we miss the entire point of the book. Surely, the flaw is not in the simple and straightforward story of Siddhartha. Isn’t Siddhartha an allegorical tale about social mores writ large. The Savior of human kind introduced into the Siddhartha story eludes to a concept of higher truth. Consider that folks seem to think that Gautama Buddha and Siddhartha are synonymous, at least in the major outlines. Young fella becomes disillusioned with his upbringing, then strikes out on his own to live his own life in a search for truth. Kinda sorta what Siddhartha did in his own life. So Hesse has not left the child, but has released him to find higher truth that will save himself and add to the social fabric. Most of us do not fully embrace ideas of freedom that are blowing in the wind, and waiting to find fertile ground in the minds of we adherents of freedom, justice and equality.
I think it was in "Narcissus and Goldman" where toward the end Narcissus as he aged was no longer the Adonnis that he fancied himself to be - and multiple women would attest to - and indeed had lost his looks. Only then could he look at least somewhat truthfully and honestly self-assess where his life had once been and where it was now. I can't recall if he came to terms with that assessment or not. It seems he had lost purpose and meaning in life. Not too different from Siddhartha with regard to owning up to one's responsibility.
Siddhartha is a very selfish character, he is so selfish that he missout the whole world. Everything he tried goes in vain. I always wondered why some readers cannot see that.
Interesting. Would be interesting to hear your comments on Cormac Mc Carthy's wives.
youre a modern day mister Rodgers
Hi Daniel. Think you could do a video about "middle child syndrome"? I'd love to hear your thoughts about it as a middle child myself.
I remember in my 20s I liked a guy. Siddartha was his favourite book (the idea of traveling and being free and wiser = better that anyone). I read the book. And, apart from the story which was interesting to read, I disliked the character, mainly for being egoistic and irresponsible. Quite ridiculous as his goal was to be a wiseman. Couldn't be more wrong. I didn't share my crush's fascination.
You didn't get Hesse, then. I suspect you're reading him from within a value system rooted in Judeo-Christian values. You need to let go. So the father looks after the son and civilisation is sustained. The greed of the father will become the greed of the son. How much longer do you think civilisation will last? It only took 400 years to turn most of a continent into wasteland. Real estate development is still the main driver of growth, 5 min before environmental doomsday.
Judge not lest ye be judged.
Are you on Instagram ?
Maybe I do and maybe I don't need to qualify this but when I say abuse I mean my mother's abuse of me which was emotional which was constantly screaming and one of her things was that she wanted to go to college and we stopped her (us kids that she had) and in rural Ireland where I live that was a big deal.... she was the only woman in her family that went and did her leaving cert which was your final year exam so she could have technically gone to college..... I have spent my life in college doing many degrees and did I want a child?.... I think it's very complicated with women because I've had many hormonal problems and towards the end of my life I did want a child..... I ended up not having one..... I had this fear of becoming like my mother though I may not have been like her..... I'm going through the menopause now and I now think that was the right thing for me...... my mother did a lot of good things for us but she was very very angry very very resentful and very very sad and she seemed to us to be trapped in the house with us as my father went off to the pub (this is Ireland after all😢) and left her there night after night..... it was a sad upbringing though we had a lot of good things around us like enough money.... my father earned it but he would have squandered it (my mother had to be the organiser of it r so she said) food and art😢😢😢
🎯
you deserve to be on the forefront of the CPTSD wave of 'therapist-researchers" like Bessel, Walker, Levine, etc etc. I find it ironic that you don't work as a therapist anymore because I think you are one of the few who would be able to help me (and countless others). Anyways - very glad for your constant stream of updates. I paid for your book yesterday and eagerly looking forward to reading it when I get the link. Thank you so much for all your content. 🙏
i agree completely dawg. this dudes videos have helped me so much
Hopefully he will influence many who are therapists.
I loved Hesse in my 20s. I read a biography about him about 4 years ago and it left a bad taste in my mouth. Ironically he had terrible parents and he turned out to be an even worse parent to his kids. Thanks for pointing this flaw out, as I too forgot about this detail as well & agree with your assessment.
I read that book in senior year of high school. It was pretty trippy. I didn't much care for it except that I was in the middle of my own abandonment pain, in my own fatherlessness. The one part that resonated with me was something about meeting the men by the river who sleep and eat bananas all day. And Herman Hesse said something about how that is just as much a form of escape as anything else. Sleep and meditation is a means of escape. I related to that because so often throughout my high school years sleep was a means of escape for me. Not drugs and alcohol like it was for others.
I am watching some of your older videos and some of the things you say are so raw and real that It makes me sit back and wonder "why didnt I hear this from other prominent people in the mental health space". You convey your experience with the passion and energy of someone who wants to get the word out and the struggles you have been through can be heard in your tone and powerful choice of words. I hope you the best in your continuation of your healing journey and wanted to tell you that I am grateful for the videos you put out there
Thanks Grey_blue :)
Raising kids; attitude to(wards) them is s really big issue in "our" "society". If there are dicriminated groups, children is the most discriminated one. Oh, ofc some speak of ageism, but only to use this narrative to their benefit: in fact, kids should become _property_ of the State instead of being _property_ of their parents.
There is a guy (who is similar to Hesse and his character though in a way) who predicts Great Children's War (against parents and then - all adults exept those few who side with them; many kids will chose the side of adults)... in a few hundred years from now. He writes about in his fictional book. I've could called the name of the book -as well of the author's - but it writen Russian.
@@heirofthespirit
Agreed, though I'd rather not have kids be anybody's property, but instead State's responsibility.
@@matijaderetic3565 I'd rather disagree with last part. The State is already takes control over kids instead of the parents. Cause thanks to techologies the State can control directly. The "elites" needed parents' intermedion and they had to exept the lesser evil (for them). Not much longer. Not only gorizontal bounds between people, but any alternative hierarchies are seen as a threat.
Do you know what happened to the historical Siddhartha Gautama? He left his family for enlightenment. Doesn't make it ok but in cultures like India it's more excepted. Western culture has a different view.
I had same reaction with 'Close encounters of the Third kind' when I realised as I got older that Roy just abandoned his wife and kids to do ... something with aliens. They are completely forgotten in final third of the film.
This reading of the novel is just plain inaccurate and misleading. Siddhartha does NOT abandon his son. Re-read that section and you’ll see very clearly that Siddhartha longed deeply to have a relationship with him: “he preferred the suffering and worries of love over happiness and joy without the boy…For a long time, for long months, Siddhartha waited for his son to understand him, to accept his love… ‘How could I part with him?’ he said quietly,..” and there are about a dozen more such quotes that show Siddhartha’s devotion as a father. It’s not Siddhartha that leaves, it’s the boy. And when the son does finally run away, Siddharta builds a raft to go searching for him. He wanders the forest for many days, he sits outside the city for many hours, longing for the son to return. In other words, it is the son that abandons the father, not the father that abandons the son. The novel makes this fact explicit when Vasudeva reminds Siddharta that this is exactly what Siddharta himself did as a boy, stubbornly setting out on his own. Letting his son go (though he was never really Siddharta’s to control anyway) was therefore a profound act of understanding and patience. ALSO, so what if Hesse’s life was a mess? So what if he “abandoned” his own family responsibilities? Who are we to judge? Have we never abandoned our responsibilities? And why should we deride him for writing a story that depicts the kind of human that Hesse, and that we all, aspire to become: a patient, forbearing parent who respects his children’s agency? Hesse, the seeker, has given us a powerful depiction of the enlightenment he was seeking, not the enlightenment he claimed to attain in his life. It’s easy to find fault in others, but as Hamlet reminds us, “Use every man after his desert, and who shall 'scape whipping?”
It's probably shouldn't be the focus of the book. This part of the story is to explain the concept that not letting go leads to pain.
He learns from everyone and everything. The book is to inspire audiences to do the same: discover and learn knowledges of almost any kind, definitely not to judge the morality of the main character.
What occurs to me is the warning: “Don’t look for heroes!” Lots of characters in art and literature or their creators have issues. Take things as the are; they are struggling humans as we all are. Pull what poetry, enjoyment and wisdom you can and forget the rest.
Don't forget that even the man who became "The Buddha" abandoned his wife and infant son... in addition to other relations and an entire kingdom he was supposed to rule. There's no worldly "ointment" that doesn't have "flies" in it. I'm 100% sure Jesus had issues too, he just had a PR team to keep them out of print.
Yes, take what's helpful in what's encountered, but also acknowledge and account for what is not helpful. The less than helpful is there. We can't lie to ourselves that it's not. There are aspects in which they actually can be helpful, as counters. For example, the "flies" can help us not to deify people. They can show us how -not- to to be. They can help us accept our own selves despite our own "flies"... etc.
So true❤
Idk.
Characters I created do not have "issues" although I have (C)PTSD (and - with small probability - some other stuff of which I'm not aware of).
Then, I don't think that we just have to put aside smth. I mean, we can if it's some single piece of art - while throwing others away. Yet we should comprehend every of them in their wholesomeness (or lack of it).
Speaking of Hesse, I tried to read a few of his works - and just couldn't. I was turned off by his pseudo-philosophy/pseudo-wisdom.
Perfect people are boring!
My opinion is that sometimes the Buddhistic/ ascetic type of belief is more appealing to people who want to break free from the pressure/consequence a society puts on a person for certain behavior/action. Exp: a person wants to be enlightened and wise and yet also has strong desires and urges sexually and otherwise. And maybe have a hard time or perhaps do not want to integrate that in a healthy way, but rather have a more black and white, this or that outlook. This dissociation sometimes creates a pretext for taking less or no responsibility for their actions. What happens is that the conscience starts working in a manner as the saying goes "out of sight out of mind".
Also, it’s a bit of fantasy- using another culture’s norms to excuse their behavior in their own culture. Seems a bit Gas-lightly to me.
“Other cultures are structured so that communities share responsibility for child raising, therefore I shouldn’t have to bear that responsibility myself.”- Herman Hesse (probably)
I watched the whole video but I do not believe Herman himself entirely agrees with Siddhartha's actions, as he is just a character and not a role model. Just like Steppenwolf, I don't think Herman agrees and encourages Harry's (Steppenwolf's) despaired and nihilist ideas
he idealised the character too soon into the book. reader was not critical while reading. he was not aware about the spiritual frauds in his early reading times.
Hopefully my critique of your opinion will help you to appreciate this book again: the time period of the book was estimated at around 625 b.c., not now, nor even close to when Hermann Hesse lived. Moreover, India at the time when Hesse was there probably still resembled 625 b.c. in so many ways. That said, it was not uncommon for boys to leave home back then and to become men at 11 years old--even in recent history! Imagine how less populated, safe, and hospitable India would have been in 625 b.c. Clearly their only worry was wild life. The boy instinctively probably knew that someone would take him in and clearly his immature mind thought this peasant ferryman " his father" was beneath him. I personally think Hesse's ability to capture the time period was brilliant and it's what drew me in.
Brother is Emotional intelligence exist in character of Siddartha. If exist please tell me
Great thank you. I think you should do a series of these!! Many of us clung to various books in our earlier years, because we had absolutely no one to get guidance from! I’d love to hear thoughts on ‘The Art of Loving’ by Erich Fromm.
Yes
Hmm, I haven't read that book...
I can’t particularly remember it now. I just remember it was about focusing on one’s ‘ability to love’ rather than be loved.
So while my boyfriend was having an affair, I a very vulnerable abused young person, was reading this.. and choosing to love better..
There was no information in those days about abusive people. But so many books on love, forgiveness and improving your self-confidence with stupid affirmations. In hindsight most of them were probably written by narcissists.
@@annastone5624
1. On the other hand, aren't books focusing on how to be loved often written by narcissists?
2. I don't like this book - which I red multiple times - much as well now: it is written in a paradigm caused by his ancestry. Yet I find it valueable for many - too many, unfortunately - for many people who are unable to love properly. Although I never liked the "love to god" part.
@heirofthespirit
1: that would be a narcissist writing for other narcissists..☺️
.. in my experience narcissists groom whatever audience they can get their hands on.. training them to be better narcissistic supply.. to love, forgive, etc etc.. & narcissistic people love to preach.
On the other hand, those of us who have been victimized, tend to be running around trying to protect other people, warning them, telling them to be careful..
Consider Elon Musk and Albert Einstein. Like Hesse, these men were recognized by society as having contributed something great (Hesse was awarded a Nobel prize for his work). However, all three of these men, according to their children, were lousy fathers. Perhaps this reality is a reflection of the tradeoff between leading an impact and living life.
Please Musk is just a bullshitter!
My parents (and honestly much of my family) were fairly cold. Not physically abusive, but cold, critical, and neglectful. My Mom left us and my Dad was never the same...married someone else, and by my early twenties - he pretty much abandoned me too. I have no siblings.
Now different from Hermann, I haven't married and therefore don't have children. Of course, I didn’t have that burning desire to procreate or be a parent outside of not finding a partner, so it all never really bothered me. I've always assumed that has something to do with my parents and family being emotionally distant, who knows?? I mean how do we give, or want something (like becoming a parent) if we never experienced that bond enough from our own parents and family?? 🤔 HOWEVER, that doesn't mean I'm selfish or cold, I love and have deep emotions (luckily) and have spent my adult life on my education and a career in healthcare and any parental nurturing instincts were acted out by caring for my Grandparents in their last years, including being my Grandfather's sole live-in caregiver for a few years - which if I had a spouse and children, I could've never had the ability or time or energy to do!
Some people, such as myself, were probably not meant to be parents to children. Maybe some of us are meant to care for elders instead (as in my case). Or maybe some are meant to be in healthcare (my case too), or the care of animals or yes, even of self spending time healing childhood wounds. Therefore, parenting or nurturing can be shown in many ways.
Maybe this book, for Hermann was just a reflection of his thinking on the subject.. a commentary of sorts, and not something to be judged. Of course people will judge everything 🙄 but many novels are just reflective of a thought made into a larger story. Also, this is an author born in the 1800s and obviously life and societies were vastly different in many ways than they are now. To look at Hermann himself, or his work with today's lens is unfair - plus we don't really know what he was thinking regarding Siddhartha. Maybe it was autobiographical to some extent, but maybe it was just a question he had... a way to work out any issues he may have had regarding parenting and his independent mindset, and him exploring through his writing these themes. How much freedom should we have (us ourselves, and our children), etc... Today people seem to be helicopter parents, trying to right their own abandonment issues by over-indulging their children. Back then, this was not the standard way to parent. The argument can be made that any extreme is detrimental, but also that either way, there is always a cost.
Wow, so much wisdom and maturity in your words and life! Which maybe you wouldn't have developed without the trauma you've been through. I have somewhat similar experiences at some points. For me my grandparents saved my life and being their caregiver as they were leaving was one of the most enriching experiences of my life, every atom of my being was thankful that I can be there for them (also wouldn't have been able if I had children). I also fully agree that parenting and nurturing can be shown in so many ways and so many people (as caretakers in one way or another) would be at a loss if it wasn't so. Take care ❤
Well this shows how emotionally unhealed Hermann Hesse was. This is why, in my opinion, no one should have children before they've completely healed from their wounds and trauma.
Agreed 100% 👍🏻!!
Does anyone who is wounded in that way ever heal enough?
@@glend.7865 I think most people don't even know what that is...
If people did that a lot of people would be waiting a long time to have children
@@basketballfan5763 yes and thats not a bad thing. The human species wont go extinct. It would be a relief for humans and the planet if we would stop collectively, atleast for a few years to reproduce. This would be the best for us humans, the planet, the animals and for the next generations to come. They would be born in a better place. We are all able to heal our core wounds so that we atleast can have a healthy loving relationship with our children
What is super interesting to note here is that the historical Siddharta Gautama left his palace the day his son Rahula was born. The tradition has it that Gautama realised his son would impede his spiritual search and wanted his son to live a common life. It reads like a man running away from his responsibilities, for sure, but we can also give the man the benefit of the doubt as he did actually become the Buddha. Well, what to say. I feel the time has come now to find enlightenment within the modern homemaker / family environment, which can be experienced as an incredible challenge as kids and domestic duties can be seen as an incredible distraction OR as the most direct path to true *integrated* enlightenment. What good is it to sit meditating under a tree when we have come to and into this world to actually be in it with all of its inner and outer complications? The term dissociation is very interesting as well in relation to the enlightenment of the Buddha, especially as it actually brought something new into the world with the Middle Path and all benefits of what the Buddha taught and showed by example. It does read as wry that he only returned back home to his son and wife 7 years after his enlightenment, which is also when his ideals were put to the practical test (and he often did not answer tricky questions!). The time has come to take that and many other teachings of enlightenment and put them solidly within a complicated, loud, exhausting family home to find the true nugget of mental gold. As my wife always says: that which you seek on your esoteric exploration is already right in front of you when your sons walk into the room. And she herself as well, of course ;)
Yes that's right it's coming down off the mountain top and putting into practice the things that you have learned. In ordinary time.
I think sometimes in those Eastern traditions, sadly, leaving one's child to pursue enlightenment it's acceptable.
I think the Christian tradition differs in that people are bound to their temporal responsibilities to marriage and family. However I believe some of the early apostles had children that they left behind. :(
You're absolutely right man! The most enlightened person I know has a wife, 3 kids and a full time job!
I am not sure if Siddharta really became Buddha. This is just a belief. Also when he at first accepted only males as a monks, some of them were married and had children. They just abandond their wifes and children, so many woman became prostitutes to survive. Later, woman could also become monks but the damage was already done.
Almost nobody is talking about that.
The problem with most comments here is that we no longer approach art through a tradition of Classics. We have - or had - a canon so that we don't have to relate to art through our mundane lives. Siddhartha is not a sitcom. Unfortunately our institutions have been hollowed out.
I found this very insightful as my mother always seems like a child to me growing up and I have at 50 remained like a little girl in many many ways😢 thank you for this wonderful unusual opinion for a psychoanalyst to end up not really respecting the spiritual life is very interesting for me to hear... the spiritual life never overrules material obligation is true of course but we like to run away from that don't we.... I think both my father and my mother were not happy at being landed with us children which is very very sad... this is making me think a lot about things now... thank you.
For the record, Daniel is not (and never has been) a psychoanalyst.
@@watching99134 O I thought he was!
@@watching99134he might as well be. He is the true daddy of psych
But what gave you the idea that Daniel is not respecting the spiritual life?
A father who is present and not really a father doesn't help much either ...
I’d like to hear what practical advice you’d give Herman Hesse. Some Positive steps you feel he’d be capable of achieving.
I imagine some simple steps would have been all that would have been needed... to talk to all of his children more and to use some of his money to help his wives and his children
I read the book in my early 60s, and as it was, my adult son (30-ish) was having personal struggles and began a period in which he dropped out of contact with me for about 3 years, and it was a painful thing for a mother.
The passage about the boy wanting to go back to his own people was a comfort to me. The reality is that we must let go of our children, releasing them to their own path, and being aware that what we demand if them is often rooted in our own selfish needs. At the time, i didn't think Siddhartha was abandoning the boy. I had the idea that the boy had a community of carers that knew him and he felt understood and nurtured by them, and that this suddenly dropped-in father meant little to the boy, therefore, the loving thing was to release him back to his own life. That brought me tears of sorrow, along with comfort, knowing I had to do the same thing for my adult "child". It brought a great deal of acceptance and humility to me. ❤
Also, the fact that Hesse was a flawed man doesn't negate, for me, the value of his writing. I hold them in separate places, not conflated, I guess.
Don't you think there's a difference between a real child and an adult?
@@MrVafflis💯There’s no comparison between a man in his 30’s disconnecting and a child who’s father has no interest in his child. If he was so enlightened he would have followed the child and offered what he could. And it would have been a better book. But instead we got the musings of another self involved, narcissistic novelist.
@@brigitte9999 I agree, but the commenter above me doesn't get it.
I think it is impossible to be enlightened and abandon your child. Siddhartha seems to be just sticking his head in the sand, avoiding what is hard and doing what feels good.
I never really understood the term enlightenment, it always seems kind of disconnected and selfish.
Perhaps we begin life enlightened as babies and children and then lose our way in all the human madness. Or when I see the cows grazing in the field nearby, they look quite enlightened to me.
Totally agree!
Siddhartha takes the son in and would like to teach him modesty and calm, as he is only used to the luxurious life of the city. In doing so, however, he unknowingly commits the same mistake that he once accused his own father of: Siddhartha believes that by shielding himself from the world he can spare the young Siddhartha the path to knowledge.
After the severe blows of fate, Hesse decided to make a radical cut. He left the house in Bern, divorced his wife and in the meantime left his sons with friends. This left its mark on his children - his youngest son Martin in particular loved his father more than anything and suffered greatly from it. Hermann Hesse retired to the country alone. He turned his back on the world and felt free in the solitude of nature. What a bastard. He calls it "enlightening!"
The irony is it could've eventually been if he hadn't had children like he did. Or if he'd waited until they were mature and independent enough to be separated. But then, what else would be different about his story? And his wife would have to be ok with it too. So it's hard to say. His life reminds me of my dad's; wrapped up in responsibility but most of the "wisdom" he really had came from being torn apart and beaten down by the abusers in his life, and attempting to avoid that trauma, just to not have to face it again. Just a couple of thoughts.
So who are the perpetrators? Hesse was a bastard and the family the victims. Then he resorted to projection and probably also called it "enlightening!"@@mikeexits
But he did spare him, he understood that he could not be a good father to his child no matter how hard he tried, and he made the right choice, thinking it would be for "greater good", because I think at 11 years old the child would be better off alone than with a parent that would judge him and see the bad in him, because he himself never had a childhood. There is a point in that, and although I know that abandoning your children is bad, but I'd prefer that in my life over being continously traumautized further by my parents who were trying to "make my life better". Passive aggression in my opinion is worse than just letting someone go. Of course, Siddhartha sacrificed himself there, and if he wouldn't be enmeshed in his own trauma, he would see that he could help his child, but at the same time he probably thought there is no way out of it
I have paused this video a couple of seconds in to tell you that growing up in an abusive home that was my favourite book as a late teen I would take to a wooded walk area by a lake and read the chapter 'by the river' over and over..... I feel the book kept me sane. That's been 30 years now and my mother who was the abuser is now in a nursing home and only recently I went to counselling still talking about her and the lasting effect her abuse of me had on my life. I am a woman and I've never had children and so I did and I didn't like your video about people not having children... I do believe I made the right decision because honestly I think I might have abused them out of anger over the free life you lose as a woman when you have a child....I gave you a thumbs up as I like you on the way in to this video and I find it so interesting that I knew it was that book the minute I saw the picture and I could not read the text and I did not know that picture and that version of this book ever😂 I will take what you say whatever it is as an opinion and I will be delighted to have it from you..... I found you a very interesting character and a very sensitive intuitive type of councillor and I am thinking you have helped a lot of people in your career without you ever knowing
Why should Hermann Hesse be and behave what you think is right?People are diffrent and there is not much we can do about it!A Tiger will never going vegan,and we cant change much how we are!Some just have a more easy caracter then others,so its easyer for them do the "right" thing!
Surely a child needs at some point to separate from parents and find their own way. The point is whether this separation is motivated by child's wellbeing or parent's.
Beloved Daniel, I just finished reading this book for the first time and if you'll allow me a different perspective I have to say that from what I can tell, you are letting your own "lens" colour how you see this part in the story. In your mind what Siddartha did was very self-serving and egocentric -(because, and forgive me, but perhaps, it is you that considers children a burden) whereas in reality the pain of allowing your child to exist, not as an extension of yourself and not as a means for you to fulfil your "duty" is the most selfless thing that you can do. You also neglected the part in the story where Siddartha is reminded by the River (that laughs at him and his pain of separating from his son) that, this is exactly what happened with him when he ran away from his father. It is a tale as old as time and part of the cycle of evolution that the child should to "rebel", be free to carve their own path...no matter how "enlightened" the parent is.
What's troubling is that many parents don't see as "obligations" what you see as "obligations". Maybe what happens is that those parents become parents, and nothing they were taught or believe actually feels ethically obligatory, if they were taught at all, and they just do what they feel like doing. Real responsible parenting may be more of a taught tradition that includes an awareness of parental "obligations" that is based on treating a child in the way a parent should have been treated as a child, rather than an innate awareness that is either chosen or disregarded. While I see it as astonishing that a parent would abandon a child, I am dealing with my own abandonment and a friend who seems to have abandoned a child, and so reality is far different than the way I think it should be. And, parents who abandon a child, in the countless ways that are possible emotionally (and in some physical ways), appear on the surface to be supporting a child to those who don't want to look closely, and those parents are supported by lots of areas of society that systemically abuse children. To restate: I suspect many parents, who have issues from childhood themselves, find out that society will do nothing (except condone) abusing, controlling, and degrading their children, and that they are free to do whatever they choose... and those numerous parents are incompetent to choose well because they have been trained to abuse in the most powerful place: their own childhoods.
Furthermore, the ironic contrast between the complete slavery the abandoned/neglected child is subjected to by the parents in charge, and the "freedom" an abandoning/abusing parent finds they have in what they do to their own children, is chilling/creepy/horrifying. The abandoned/abused child is enslaved by traumas inflicted on them, and then, if they become parents, they find the most freedom they have in their lives is to abandon/abuse their own children.
The true revealing test of anyone, as a parent, is what they do when they are faced with the actual situations that have been when other parents have abandoned/abused their children. No matter what anyone says, whether they have become aware of their own traumas or not, it's only when they are in the role as parent, day to day, hour to hour, that they face what other parents have faced, and then see what they might become, or not become. I believe that an abandoned/abused/neglected child has slim chance of being a "good-enough" parent: they just have too much to overcome.
I used to have a simplistic psychological understanding years ago about parents "they just had sex and that's it". Then I became more nuanced and sophisticated.......and here I am now going back to my original thought. Parents are just a man and a woman who had sex. Period. Almost no one ever made the conscious decisions to do it "right"....even has a notion of what IS "right". There's a lot of fears around fitting in "as a good parent" in society...but like you said.............a sick society reinforces bad ideas about aprenting.
@@jeanlundi2141 You are very wrong. Some parents are good, caring, they plan the life of their child, they nurture him, ask him how he feels and provide what is needed for him to develop and be the best version of yourself. Have you had a good childhood yourself? I too thought before that maybe if my parents are like that, then all the others may be that or worse, but that is the most debiliating and stupid thoughts to have. It hurts you and it pains you, and this is literally not true. Try watching anime, my man, try to see some real life in there. It saved my cursed and broken soul from believing that what is unhealthy and pointless and hurtful is good and healthy
You made a video on how fathers sexualize thire doughters. And how this is ingreained in cultures all over the world. I can t find that video anymore. Have you deleted it?
Buddhism hides from the reality of female spiritual energy. It rests in male I Amness, and hides from female I Createness.
Siddhartha or Gautam Buddha as he was later referred to was a crown prince. Prior to renouncing his family life, he was married and had a son. After renunciation, he didn't engage in sex with any woman. The book isn't stating the facts correctly.
When Siddhartha left the palace, he knew his wife and son will be well taken care of because in the Royal family, there were not just his old parents but extended family of numerous uncles and aunts.
However, his wife must have missed her husband's company and his son must have missed his dad's guidance and presence. Neither money nor other people can replace that.
Once he attained enlightenment, his wife and son became his followers but he continued to live the life of a renunciant.
Thank you for correcting the narrative. Well articulated, and you saved me the time of writing a comment.
This book about another Siddhartha who lived in the time of the historical Buddha, the Buddha's contemporary, if you will. I think the character Siddhartha meets the Buddha in passing in the book, or something like that.
Good god, what a judgmental, arrogant sermon.
I think the story is suggesting that in order to achieve enlightenment and ultimately union with all things, one must experience everything, hence the metaphors of living with the ascetics practicing self denial and then moving to the city and practicing gluttony. Siddhartha needed to have a child and ultimately consciously chose to abandon that child in order to experience the pain of sacrificing his son. The metaphor of his son leaving parallels the beginning of the story when Siddhartha left against his father's wishes. This suggests and reiterates one of the main points of the book that everyone must walk their own path.
Further it is an ineffective argument to bring the personal troubles of the author into consideration, as Siddhartha is merely a fiction novel speculating on the spiritual journey and the mystery of enlightenment. I am sorry that you did not enjoy the book after re-reading it again. While I do not condone anyone not taking responsibility for their own actions in real life, I found the book to be one of the most profound spiritual books I have ever read.
The tragic problem is, if someone is truly healthy and loves themselves sufficiently, they never feel any "need" to have children. The tragedy is anyone who can be a really good parent, is the least likely to eventually end up becoming one. A great example in my opinion is actually yourself, Daniel!
Truly healthy people don’t have children?
@@nickbaigent2714 No he means that people who are most conscientious/realizing the weight/importance of having a child are likely to delay or have less children because of they are more responsible.
And then, for most people the modern society is toxic, stressful and traumatic. Even if you could be a "great parent" and try to grow an emotionally healthy child the rest of the world will still traumatize him, because being emotionally healthy is not the norm. Knowing this one should think, should you bring another being into this existence of suffering?
@@alexxx4434you can check some of my other comments in that I totally agree with you that people with problems should not have children ever but to not have children because the World Is Evil is something I don't agree with
@@basketballfan5763 The world is not "evil" it's toxic, traumatized and traumatizing. You can basically call it sick. And "people with problems" which are all too common are the consequence of the toxic environment. The system is at fault here, rather than particular people.
I read Siddhartha and Steppenwolfe back-to-back in my freshman college dorm at 18 and ALL that I got from the experience was a HIGH that I'd arrived to sit at the figurative bohemian intellectual's table to hobnob with the cool kids. Nothing said in either book stayed with me once the trophy-ism of having joined the club of having read the name dropping books wore off after a few weeks or so. It seems to me certain books feel self-satisfying to read in the moment just as much as the author felt self-satisfied in the time of writing to pen said books-- everyone wins all around for indulging their intellectual pretenses of what ifs for a little while, yet nothing fundamentally changes or sticks. That being said, it's like the saying of needing to kiss some frogs before meeting your prince that a person needs to hone their conception of high art, philosophy, spiritual ideals, healing or what not THROUGH processing the dross of much hyped books. You won't have a relative benchmark for the good without experiencing lesser attempts along the way-- ergo Hesse's point that life is learned through the living of it, direct reckonings. Thank you Hesse for the reading high once upon a time, it was a nice rush.
Hey, Daniel
In the book, it was clear the child wanted no association with the father.
For me, I thought the theme of this event was trying to play into a theme of Karma. Something like: 'Siddhartha runs away from home and abandons his father. Later in life his own son abandons him.'
Though granted this theme perhaps could have been better served if the son was 18 and not 11
at 18 it is not abandonment....at 11 it is
exactly. Briansoto is projecting.
I really appreciate a critical view on something that is considered a " great classic". I also see a lot of strong negative emotions towards this video in the comments which boggles my mind.
Wow... you are right! Thank you for this.
Nobody fails at life ! Lol !
I feel the same about Der Steppenwolf!
I carried it around a lot when I was 20 and bought copies for all my family to read. Except I felt there was something not quite right with it. Now a few years later I feel Hermann Hesse was a really broken, emotionally damaged guy. It's clear that Steppenwolf and the 'enlightenment' or 'healing' that the novel is about is not actually real healing, but about justifying repression and celebrating avoiding the truth... It's a celebration of 'being happy' and 'feeling good' and superficiality as a way of getting out of a depressive funk. Just feeling good, over healing. Typical narcissistic rubbish.
I saw somewhere, when reading a lot about him online, that Hesse was abused and hated a lot by his parents as a child, and that they actually sent him to a psychiatric institution, blaming him for acting out as abusive parents do. I say this to point out how much he had to heal and face up to. His problem wasn't about needing to find a spiritual enlightenment and create enough cognitive dissonance to make himself stop feeling bad. How can you be enlightened and never mention the way your parents treated you?
You get it - Hesse failed at life.
Dazai Osamu, an extremely famous Japanese author, was exactly the same, wasting his life spewing out the same stories again and again. Endless denial and never growing or progressing in understanding what happened and why he feels so bad. Abusing those around him... A failure at life.
Dazai helped me realize what I didnt want to be in life. I didnt got such a strong rapport with Hesse, even though I read like 3 of his books. Either way, glad to see someone else understands why their artistic legacy is more useful as a well of psychological lessons!
But why do you think enlightenment is the point and main topic of the book? Has Hesse or anybody else close to him said that? I feel that this is a book written for his own soul, its just that other people like that and think that buddhism is "enlightenment". No, it is not. Sitting before a tree your whole life is very selfish and stupid, but this way you abandon your trauma. I think this book is about it, if its about anything at all. "Dont commit my mistakes", its like Hesse says just that
If youtube existed back then for Herman he might have had a chance to contemplate his disassociation from his childhood wounds. I guess what I'm trying to say is we are ignorant until we learn and absorb new information. I was ignorant and disassociated for years and years about the abuse I suffered at the hands of my parents during my childhood. Bit by bit I found out what I needed to know in order heal but it's it's been a long and winding journey of dead ends, bad therapists and horrible medications until I got there in the end.
100%
Do you feel happier now? What brought you to "healing"? Do you consider yourself completely healed, escaped from them?
As someone who is enlightenment bound, I have always noticed (and remembered) that children are spiritually pure and great teachers of truth by nature. Being my son's mother has been the best experience of my life, regardless of his irresponsible father. No one else has challenged me to be more myself and inspired such fierce love and self sacrifice. The only times I regret are when I would take too much time to write books. It's interesting how many people of particular genius that we adore, like Einstein, were actually awful in their family lives. No one is perfect, but we can do better ❤
For those interested, a side note: 'Hesse' is pronounced with an "e" at the end like a short 'a', no 'ee' though.
The same for the 'e' in his first name.
Everybody is doing his or her best. If you don't grow up, you are stuck in the past.
Still the ending can also Interpreted as acknowledging that sometimes parents are not apt to be in the life of their children. I understood it as such am acknowledgement and the kid knowing where to find the father as he stayed stationary and his boy needed to explore the world first.
But I get the point and legitimate criticism, also based on Hesse's own life.
Great insight.
always fascinating to come back to old pieces of media that we found insightful when we were younger. often, like you, i find things that bother me that I'm able to articulate much better now than when I first read them. this example of a character who ignores the plight of their young person is so common
Hi Daniel, are you familiar with Gabor Mate and his work on trauma? He has published many books, the newest one being "The Myth of Normal". There are many interviews with him on youtube, and I see so many similarities between the two of you and your view of society and trauma. It would be great to see you two in a discussion/interview or to just hear your thoughts on him :)
Nah, that whole book is filled with misunderstandings about the human psyche. Hesse was very confused about what true healing was.
Isn’t it interesting though that this impacts you more greatly because you have a lived experienced of feeling abandoned. Your perspective illuminates parts of the book that otherwise others may not care for.
I was thinking the same. Few days ago my very adult friend (50+) found out that she has a half-sister that her dad always tried to deny because "it wasn't possible"- until they all decided he should do a DNA test. And it was positive, imagine that. My reaction was biased by my own experience, an immature animal-impulse driven father who after my birth decided that he doesn't want a wife and a child after all because he rather wants to fuck around. So my still unhealed biased point of view was the same as Daniel's, and I couldn't help but wonder if he also had an unhealed trauma regardless father. Maybe he has mentioned it in another video, I'm new here (2nd video I've seen on this channel)
In my opinion, you are overlooking something obvious: billions of men around the world fulfill their fatherly duties, but only a very few, by comparison, become famous artists, scientists, or similar figures. If Hesse had been a good father, it's highly likely that he would not have become a Nobel Prize-winning author, cherished by millions for decades. The same applies to Einstein, who, by the way, was a terrible father and husband. Individuals like Hesse and Einstein offer the world their books and scientific insights-these works and ideas are their 'children.' Perhaps the world would be a better place if every man who had children was also a good father. However, it would also be a completely different place, and perhaps one where great achievements in literature and science were much rarer.
Too much rousseaunian stuff. Theodore Dalrymple, Thomas Szasz stuff please. Enough monoandrotheism.
You don't get it, the life of every one of us is what it is. We struggle to overcome our flaws but you judgemental humans see things from your personal narrow point of view. I am glad you are not someone people come to seek help because you would never be able to understand anybody who does not fit in your personal standards. You did not get the book at all.
This reminds me sadly of catholic priest children, who mostly suffer of being illegal, hidden, stuck in the midst of lies, while their fathers remain holy men.
You have done an excellent psychological and social analysis of Hesse's books and of the author. Excellent and insightful. Thank you!
Wow, this is the first time I see someone else addressing the fact that Hesse's novels feel like repeating the same theme of being thorn between the world of Matter and the world of Spirit. As a person who entered an adulthood studying Jungian psychoanalysis, I couldn't help but feel like he conveying something I already know deep inside. Hesse is a pure pleasure to read when it comes to language, and this longing for abandoning the outer world and running away from earthly quests and responsibilities is pretty much relatable to me, but the real facts from his biography definitely makes this idea way less romantic. I definitely still feel deep connection with his struggles, but one should always think twice before taking anyone's 'wise' insights as a sacred truth.
Nobody throws away a copy of Siddhartha.... Nobody finds a pile of books with Herman Hesse novels included. 😊 i guess you're in America 😊.
Life is about the path a person wishes to follow. The method is to observe what happens in life without judgment
Great research... the new yorker 😊... now that is an extremely hilarious source. 😊. Nothing like following newspapers for information... sounds like a great source, hehehe 😜.
You Americans ❤️. Hahaha 😊... drink the kool aid.
I sense that it is extra heartbreaking to be let down by Siddhartha and Herman Hesse because he is talking about oneness, enlightenment, and spirituality, which are things that take advantage of the human tendency to worship, to believe, and to be vulnerable. If you learned anything from Siddhartha, then herman hesse didn't fail. I imagine this book is extra heartbreaking though because you project perfection into the spiritual. Human failings are always amplified in spirituality. I believe everything in the book is true on one level, and on another level is a lie ;)
Thank you for your video!
Hi Dan, I’ve recently found your channel and I’ve been delighted to find that much of what you say is in alignment with my own observations. Thanks for your work.
I think it would be interesting to hear your take on pet ownership and if people use this added responsibility to avoid facing their traumas and flaws!
Siddhartha felt every emotions in that book but there was one emotions he was devoid of and it was losing a son. That’s exactly what his father felt when Siddhartha left house. Siddhartha didn’t get enlightenment until he felt that last emotion and learned to let that go. I think that’s what the story is about, renouncing all worldly affairs and going through every emotion without succumbing to them. “You’ve experienced suffering Siddhartha, but I see, no sadness has entered your heart.”