You have discussed and demonstrated almost exactly what my old layout mentor taught me over a series of days in my first rotation through layout and Inspection at the close of the first year of my machinist apprenticeship. "Two Tenths" Tommy Thompson was a legend in his day. He was assigned an apprentice or two every month and he had a little program he ran each of us through. His training included among many other things, the ways and means of accurate layout and drilling of holes. Where the work flow didn't include opportunities for each method he had us make dowel pin samples precisely as you demonstraded. Among the lessons was a firm caution: drills ALWAYS wander a trifle no matter how accurately they are spotted. If a hole is to be precisely located another step is required - boring for location. The boring step may be a location and conditioning step prior to reaming or a location and bore to size step. The option being determined by the availability of a reamer for a particular size and the suitability of the material and the feature for a reaming operation. Call that the seventh method Tendentious comment: There are a number of options for boring including but (not limited to) a single point boring bar in an adjustable offset boring head, boring with a preset straight boring bar, boring with an end mill, or boring with a straight bar on a lathe. The method selected will depend on the part's function, its required location accuracy, and a number of other factors including time, number of holes, cost, material, etc. Story: Ron Lampson, an apprentice classmate, was one of the pioneers in the adoption numerical controlled machine tools in my old career shop. In a ship there are many coolers and heat exchangers where excess heat passes through the wall of an array of tubes through which flows circulating salt water. In the shell and tube design, many tubes are fitted in an array between tube sheets. The largest heat exchangers are the main condensers. They incorporate thousands of tubes intended to reject hundreds of thousands of kilowatts of latent heat from the condensing steam from the ship's main engines. Here the tube sheets are drilled, reamed, and grooved; each a precision feature such that the tube, when inserted and expanded by internal rolling, provides a tight and corrosion resistant seal: even a tiny leak of salt water into the condensate could, if undetected, contaminate the feed water and ruin the ship's boilers. Back in the day tube sheets were drilled in a radial arm drill press by an utterly reliable, premium pay driller who might take a week to drill, etc a 3200 hole copper nickel alloy tube sheet. Every hole had to be in tolerance and inspected. Discrepant holes had to be re-worked often at great expense at nail biting surgical risk. Enter early years of numerical control where a 4 ft x 20 ft gantry mill re-purposed with a control, servos, ball screws, tool changer, etc replaced Dick Army, a driller of long experience only too happy to be rid of a tedious, stressful part of his workload. If the tooling could be mastered: reamed holes in copper nickel (a soft but tough and surprisingly abrasive alloy) could vary several thousandths from hole to hole using the traditional stock allowance. Ron found reducing reaming stock to an ideal 0.003" - 0.005" and using carbide reamers with 0.003" per inch back taper, he could not only hold half thousandth consistancy but drill an entire tube sheet with a single set of tooling. His is the reamed hole recipe I follow to the present day: spot, drill, bore with end mill (I keep a set of undersized extension end mills in my lower chest) and ream. My over/under dowel pin reamer set is 45 years old and all but three have been sharpened once. The three most often used have been sharpened several times. The point is they all hold 0.0001" of measured size and within 0.0005" of set location after all this time and countless difficult materials, thanks, I think, to Ron Lampson's experiments in 1969.
Hi, Pete, an English major here. In answer to your question, no, your use of an anvil in the pursuit of precision is not an anachronism. Any tool properly used in reaching your ultimate goal is valid. By the way, if I had known you thirty-five years ago, I would have chosen a different major, and I would have had a completely different career. Regardless, better late than never, and my garage full of machine tools is a testament to the power of your influence and the mastery of your teaching skills. Many thanks for showing all of us your secrets. It's the most fun I've ever had. You are the man!
God gives each of us diffent gifts, it is our responsability to find and use those gifts with happness minus the bordom of doing jobs we have no gifts for! Manual Machine Work is my gift,but I was very old when I discovered the art... God Bless you Tublacain for your many talents...
I looked thru the comments but couldn't see where anybody pointed out if you want really good results you have to lock your quill and raise the table. The quill has to have clearance or you can't move it, this clearance results in the spindle being able to walk and thus your holes will move. Of course if your table to knee wys are sloppy it might actually be worse that way but usually the lots of extra mass in the knee and table makes it less prone to moving than the quill is. Put a dial indicator at the end of your drill bit and wiggle the quill and see how much play you get. It would not surprise me to see .002-.003" even on a pretty good shape unit.
I generally use screw machine drills if possible, less flex. If I need to spot I'll use just the end of a center drill, very stiff and at 120 degrees very close the the angle on my drills (118.) I don't have a set of spotting drills. I've tested the play in the mill quill, surprisingly tight. I do use the knee when I need a very accurate depth because it has a DRO scale. I don't have very many reamers and am considering an over & under set. Would I be better off with an even size set? Good presentation, thank you.
You’re a wonderful teacher! I’m mainly a woodworker, but enjoy making things. I’ve learned more from your videos than I have in the past few years of reading up on this stuff.
As good a DIY videos that I have ever seen. "Our" Mr Pete is not of this world. And most of us know what you are "of". Praise His name. Thank you kind Sir. We luv "yuz" MUCHLY!
Thank you, Tubalcain, very much for the explanation of these 6 methods. The atlas drill press vise method was of great interest to me as I have such a vise and did not know this method at all. These nuggets of information is why I value your channel so highly.
Im from the Philipines when i was young my dream is to become a machinist but to expensive here to study that now im 45 so im a prostrated machinist but watching u doing all these for us making me keep on dreaming thanx mr pete god bless u n your family.
Great 2 parter Mr. Pete! This one is particularly interesting. This type of layout comes about very often and it is nice to see all the different methods! I would like to see it done with the dial indicators. That was a bit of a teaser! Thanks for this and all your videos. 🏆📽🔧⚙️🗜
Very useful video. I have struggled with this for a while being self or U-tube educated. Thanks for putting it all in perspective. I appreciate Brian's comments about quill movement as well.
You were talking for granted that the calliper’s are spot on accurate I wonder if the surprising results with DRO could actually be in the calliper and the 2tenths of the pins combined
With great respect, and humility Mr Pete, I was always told from day one by all my mentors...ALWAYS BACK OFF ONE FULL TURN OF THE DIAL to eliminate ALL backlash. If I may say so, I think that is WHERE the WEAR may have got you on your pin spacing of #4 coupon. You did mention to "BACK IT WAY UP". Great work on this important subject.
This seems like one of those tasks that is a challenge... Since I'm retired and have nothing better to do than fool around with tools, measurements and my skill.... I like the format. I'm going to see how it works for me in my shop. FUN. When I was young, I thought fun was fast cars and loose women, now it's tight tolerances and rock solid machinery. Hmmm.
The Bridgeport dials only example really illustrated why jig boring machines were used in the old days to obtain accurate results in making tooling (jigs and fixtures) for manufacturing. Three-thousandths off wouldn't have cut it, in most cases (even though you very careful in setting up the Bridgeport). Very interesting experiment, and thank you for your fine presentation. NOTE: I added this comment just before you pointed out this salient fact. Sorry.
Dear Mr Pete, as usual another very interesting presentation. Look forward to you videos. Kind regards, Dennis your South African youtube student/follower
Just the video i needed to see as I have been thinking of making a slotted welding table for quite a while now, what i was going to do was make an accurate template, then drill the holes using my magnetic drill with annular cutters which are far better then twist drills for accuracy, MD was one of the best tools i have ever bought.
Really interesting. I guess another way of thinking about the elimination of backlash on the mill is to always approach the desired position using the same direction of rotation of the handle. E.g. always approach using anticlockwise motion. So if you need to rotate clockwise to get to the next position, deliberately overshoot the clockwise movement and then use an anticlockwise motion for finally approaching the position.
You can either overshoot it or you can first back it off. In this example, for the last hole, you'd first go into positive direction on X axis and then in negative direction until you reach X=0, without the need to overshoot.
Mr. Pete, great video. I did this same test on my Taig mill some time ago. Using dials, the holes were within 25 thousands of expectations. Using dro, right on. Only difference was I did all 3 operations prior to moving on to next hole. In testing outcome on each of your tests. Thank you.
I was impressed with the atlas drill press setup. I have one of those and should use it more often I guess. Great job on the compare of the the many methods.
Even allowing for aging eyes (which I have as well), I was surprised to see that the optical center punch results were as bad as they were. - I bought a cheap one a while back, but never really used it, most of the time just let the punch find the intersection of the scribe lines. I have a height gauge that I’ve never used till now, and thanks to these two videos now realize I should think of it as a “distance from edge” gauge, rather than just height. As I’m a complete noob machinist, I always learn something valuable from your videos, that was the tidbit for today. Thanks! 👍😁
Mr. Pete, Excellent tutorial! For my needs and since I have yet to get a DRO equipped mill I’m gonna go with the height gage layout method. At some point (and until my wife comes up with something that requires dead on accuracy) I will acquire the DRO feature. For many years I created very fine furniture that I thought required pretty precision mating of material. Then somewhere along the line I got the metal bug and I realized no way , no how were my wood pieces even remotely close! Now when I go back briefly to the wood shop for a change of pace I quickly become frustrated with simple measurements even though I have some pretty decent equipment. Wood MOVES just too darn much! Metal moves too, I know but that doesn’t seem to bother me as much. Anyway, Mr. Pete, I learned from you today and thank you. Dale
We notice the difference at work between Aussie grown pine and Latvian imported pine. The Latvian stuff is lighter for a giving size with the growth rings further apart and it splits more easily.
Good Video Mr Pete. When I was still in the shop it was a commonplace to try to eke out every bit of accuracy from the Bridgeport Mills. It was the goal to try to have mating parts with dowel pins slip together, one part with press fit holes for the dowels, and the other part with slip fits. My basic procedure went as follows: 1) Snug the table locks every so slightly. They should turn freely with a bit of drag. Do not touch them again during the process. 2) Using the DRO slowly creep up on the number staying .0005" away. wait a few seconds as the machine will usually "creep" into place. 3) Spot drill hole. 4) "Qualify" hole location with an end mill a few thousands under size from finish 5) Ream hole to finish size. I always kept the screw lash in the same direction. It seemed to help. I can only speculate why. BTW, I ran an Index vertical mill in my pre-DRO days. I LOVED that machine I felt that the screws were more accurate than the Bridgeport mill. Plus it's movements were as smooth as silk. All the other guys in the shop were used to the Bridgeports, so I always had a machine for my work.
What a great video Lyle i always used to file the pins to true up my holes .now i know where i went wrong. But offset holes never stopped me completing a project cheers mate HAPPY PROSPEROUS NEW YEAR.
Very interesting that the quick and easy Height Gauge method using conventional workshop machinery and tools gave such accurate results. Admittedly, good height gauges bought new are expensive, but they seem easy to come by second hand for modest sums of money.
Good teaching. I found for my mini mill using the DRO, to lock both X & Y. However I have to watch the readouts as the locks can cause it to drift. Upgrading it w/DRO was a big help. Your nickname verse: Bereshith (Gen.) 4:22 As for Tsillah, she also bore Tuḇal-Qayin, a smith of all kinds of tools in bronze and iron. And the sister of Tuḇal-Qayin was Naʽamah.👍
I liked it but I like everything you present. I’m an amateur wood-butcher so I’ll never need this fine detail in measurement but everything I observe is another tool in my my mental toolbox. Maybe precision furniture is in my future. Thank you.
Bravo! What a lovely and useful series. Fabulous how you choose techniques that are possible for most folk from limited tools to DRO and showed the practical consequences in a kind of application that one often meets. Many years ago I completed an optical centre punch that someone else had begun, aluminium base, no magnets but as I often work aluminium and brass it was fine for me and I still use it. The biggest advance for me though came from you several years ago when you showed how to make deep scribe lines and then follow along one till feeling the other and then punch at that point. That was game changing for me and I have often thought a silent thank you for how this helped me doing layout and making holes. Thanks for sharing!
Excellent Mr. Pete, really interesting results there. Thanks for sharing! DRO's have come down in price, but still not cheap. I hope to get one for the Bridgeport someday, but until then the dials will have to do.
I noticed your DRO is in increments of 0.0005", which means you've got a raw measurement uncertainty between any 2 holes of 0.001", not to mention linearity, etc. I'm pretty impressed with the cross-slide vice at the end, I'd be interested to see how accurate you could do on it with a pair of dial indicators watching your X/Y travel. Thanks again for putting out videos like this and keeping us all learning.
Always enjoy your videos. Couple thoughts. Measure the hole position somehow instead of the banged-in/pressed position of the dowel pin - a slide fit on the gauge pin/dowel, etc. After locking the dial to 0, take any backlash out again before starting - seems impossible to lock a dial without something moving. Use an center drill. Like the anvil inclusion :)
Mr. Pete, my degree in English is from U.T. Austin. In my educated opinion, your statement is NOT an anachronism, but just good b.s. Thanks for the video
I hope your grand kids are interested in learning from you! You have a wealth of knowledge and I would have loved having you for a teacher in school or now for that matter!Most kids today have no interest in anything other than their phones but, I teach my daughters mechanical skills because I want them to become independent like me! I never ask anyone for any kind of help paid or free! If I don't know how to do a job I learn and the worse I can do is mess it up!
mrpete222 well at least you have one interested! One day they will regret not learning all they can because skills like this are getting scarce. Im watching your videos right now on my TV as I type so keep the videos coming! P.S. on a side note I seen a video where you were taking criticism over the length of your videos! You are the one who does the work to create them so don't worry about negative comments. Make them as short or long as you please. Trolls are everywhere. Thanks.
@@kevinburks110 I agree with you. I think anyone that can't watch a longer video can't be to interested. I would watch one all day if I could keep learning and be taught things till the subject is exhausted. Love to learn so keep them coming Mr Pete. I have a lot of catching up to do to watch all your videos. Dale in Canada
You just added a few more strings to my bow, thanks, having just got a brand new small milling machine(without dro) i can now try a few variables although what i do if its only a hair out I will be happy and only I will know. A dro is on the wish list and will probably be my next purchase as I am running short of lamp oil(eyesight not so good for small dial reading) thanks again for sharing some more of your remarkable knowledge and in an easy understandable way.
I love watching your videos, and I learned a lot. I am definitely a newbie with the mill but have pretty good experience in trigonometry. I would’ve liked to see that you measured the pins on a diagonal to check for squareness. If they were perfectly square the dimension would be 1.410” Also, based on the hypotenuse your readings with your caliper aren’t necessarily correct. You would be looking for the lowest possible number to be the most accurate. For example, if you have a range between .997 and 1.003, the lower number would be the most accurate because it is the straightest line between the two points. Anything larger would obviously be on an angle.
That’s interesting. I just recently retired from welding and fabrication. I always tried to incorporate math into my layout and problem solving. The figures 1.414 and .707 were some I figured out and made note of when calculating a hypotenuse or a side from a hypotenuse. It surprised me when I got online later to learn about trigonometry, that these figures were taught. I have great respect for people who learned and apply mathematics into their lives.
I first saw your use of transfer screws, they're really handy. I made some myself once for a project i was working on. As a result it turned out great.
Any of those methods would be good enough for what I do..diemakers and toolmakers have the most expensive toys for a very good reason. Great video! Thanks, Mr. Pete! :-)
Really enjoyed your video, I liked the method your brother showed you best. I needed a small part with just such hole spacing a few years ago and used up an entire 12" sheet of 1/4 plate without success. More recently I made a battery adapter which needed 4 brass sockets in the top to accept the 4 prong plug of a radio. Could I drill the holes perfectly, no, I pushed the brass sockets I made onto the plugs pins and drilled the wood adapter holes oversize and glued the assembly carefully into it. When set it was a perfect fit but I guess you can't do that with steel, thanks.
Great two part tutorial Lyle. Thank you. btw,,, going from the 750 back to zero,, I would usually move more forward, let's say to 800, then return to zero. I don't think it makes a difference but with this stuff, you never know.,,, at least I don't lol.
I purchased an optical center punch set up a couple of years ago, and my results were similar. I suspect that we all expect the accuracy of the "optical" tool to supercede the accuracy of the layout itself. In fact, this tool introduces another step where errors may creep in. Even if one were to adhere a drawing to the surface of the steel and work off that, the finished job would be largely dependent on the accuracy of the drawing. probably not a good idea. Your video shows both the sound layout practice of "yesteryear" and the inherent accuracy of digital technology. Thanks for the posting, and put the "gizmo" in the back of the tool box.
I want to see the same test, blind folded with a Black & Decker manual hand drill! I bet this will be your best result!!!! Thanks for an enjoyable video!!!!!!!
Thanks for the two videos, very interesting. For me I have to assume the drill operations have the least accuracy here thus removing all the better operations before it.
Thank you My long unanswered question? I believe last video you mentioned using an Index mill with "tic" marks on the face of the table. My mill a Cincinnati has those and there is no mention in the book what they are for, so now I know, again thanks for that tip.......
Absolutely loved these 2 videos Sir, informative and entertaining I have no dro on my mill, so I'm a height gauge and prick punch, or trust the dials kinda guy
Some very useful lessons Mr Pete. And I feel a lot better about my own efforts to accuracy also. I have used all of your methods except the DRO, now I really must get one fitted. As for the optical centre finder, maybe a little too much enthusiasm with the mallet??--- I have achieved exactly the same results with my optical finder too :-)
Thanks for a very interesting video. I have attempted to drill accurately spaced holes to make a wire bending fixture using a combination square and hand center punch and just a small center drill and a regular drill of the appropriate size. Took three separate attempts to make one that was close to successful. I don't have a milling machine so the drill press had to do.
Very informative video, as usual. While demonstrating how to remove the backlash on the Y axis just before drilling hole # 3 you seem to position the handle differently after removing the backlash. First time the ball was at approx. the 1 o'clock position (time stamp 7:35), but after correcting an overshoot you came back at approx. 3 o'clock (time stamp 7:43). If the crank was 2/12 or 1/6 of a full turn short, I would expect the distance between pin # 2 and pin # 3 to be approx 33 thousands off (200 thou / revolution x 1/6 revolution). I guess you must have adjusted again off camera...
Before I got a DRO on my mill, I used tool makers buttons for accurate hole spacing. eg for two 1/4" holes spaced one inch between centres, turn a pair of 1" diameter buttons each with a 1/4" hole; clamp to the work touching each other and drill through the holes into the work ...
I think, the results with all methods were remarkable good. If one wants really to work in a range of one thou or even less, things start to be complicated. You need high $ equipment, a good temperature management, expensive measuring equipment, and so on. Good luck, if somebody thinks, with a drill press, a vice a few random drill bits, and a caliper he could do precise work in tenth, lol. There is a good reason for the expensive stuff.Btw, even today a envil is a valid tool. You just have to make shure, it is a digital one. Means full blow witg a hammer, or not. No half strikes :-)
Interesting and useful..the shop here in the UK who made all my dies and tools wouldn't use digital calipers, old style micrometers all the way..I always use digital calipers, Mitutoyo, in my own shop..
Mr. Pete, A possible measuring error in your demo would be the accuracy of your calipers. Most good calipers are plus or minus .001 inches. Another possible error would be the thickness of the steels plates. 3/8" or thicker would minimize any possible tilt of the pins. Don't mean to nit pic. Good illustration of how hard it is to maintain accuracy. Enjoyed it.
Great compilation. The punch method is impressive. I've had good luck putting a punch in the quill and making marks as needed. The quill repeats like crazy so table movement is the only error. The optical centers were a disappointment. Maybe it is because the mark caused by the bottom of the foot is all the way to one side of the scratch. I always line my crosshairs down the middle of the scratch and now I'll use the edge if appropriate.
Thanks for yet another educating video.My mini mill, Chinese of course, looks very similiar to a Sieg, S2, I think. When locking X the locking itself causes a move of 1/2 to 1 thou. Locking Y brings no move. The Z is a sad story...How to overcome the unwanted move in X?
Thank you Sir, very interesting. With the DRO and dials getting it on the 1st mark accurately is the most critical otherwise eveything will be off. It would be great if you could show us a few tricks and methods of locating your drill point exactly on the mark. I normally use a sticky pin or wobbler if you have some other tricks it would be interesting.
I have to admit that I am fare from being as good as you are and the only way I can even approach your level is by using templates :-) I do make hole templates over and over again until I have reached the level (mostly by luck) I can be okay with and then I do place the template on my project and drill.
I am actually an English major! Not an anachronism, only slightly ironic. I believe in the importance of Learning throughout the entire duration of one's lifespan, that's why an English major is watching this!
Lyle, I always love when you say 'MagicMarker' because that is the term I use, not Sharpie...... these young whippersnappers have no Idea what I am talking about, I guess we are showing what generation we came up in......best wishes.Paul
Thanks for making these videos. Suggest you use some WD40 and Scotchbrite on the Atlas table dials, then once the dials are cleaned up, put some oil on them to keep them from rusting again. You can also make larger dials or purchase larger dials on eBay. These are the same dials Atlas used on the 10” lathe. Regarding the Bridgeport DRO method not being ‘perfect’ locking the x & y probably makes the table and saddle move a few microns. I know it does on my older BP with DRO as the ways probably could stand to be scraped.
VERY interesting Lyle, I too would have thought the DRO would have been perfect, not sure how you would have any deflection on your starter drill being so rigid to make it be off.
The accuracy of any method you showed in this video can be increased beginning drilling holes using short centering drill to prevent sliding drill on surfaces, elasticity of any kind of tool wich can cause a litle deflection from choosen position, an unusual method to reduce the backlash error is to have two shafts on same direction and not the last depends of punching method of pins to keep their prependicularity. Of course for a beginner, showed methods are a good start.
Thanks so much for this excellent video. I feel like I am attending an expensive course, and yes I am actually taking handwritten notes. Being mainly a woodworker I had overlooked how difficult it is to make really accurate holes. I am actually making a hole jig in steel to make accurate holes in wood. Of course then you have the added problem of holding the wood. Note the cheaper x.y tables are not that accurate.
I had a shop teacher back in high school that tested the students with projects like that and we were graded on accuracy. We too had to use the dials on the machine with no help from a micrometer.
I guess that the best way to choose your drilling method, is to FIRST, look at the schematic and read what tolerance is required for that particular part... ;) That's a good representation of actual results someone will get with the different methods, quite well done..!!!
@@MrUbiquitousTech another trick I figured out was to use a spud and unlock the head of my mill then set the spud in the punch mark and lock the Z axis down and retighten the head. That gets me real close to at least where I punch marked for drilling. Drill bits themselves are not very center pointy. But a spud is. So it'll sit right down in a punch mark. I used to spin the chuck by hand with a drill in it looking at it this way and that trying to see if the drill was really in the punch mark. Skip that. Give me a sharp spud point any day. I'm consistently a few thousands closer spotting with a spud than a drill bit and it is way easier. How accurately I can punch something is a matter of debate at times though. One other thing I've come to believe is to not design anything that needs to be terribly accurate in order to work in the first place.
Another great video. Thanks Lyle. Just an idea for a future video, I would like to see the process, how to set your drill press table tru to the spindle.
@@mrpete222 Thank you. Now maybe I can get my Delta drill press drilling straight holes. Just a side note. I really miss your videos where you actually build things. I have followed along and built all of the tools and accessories that interest me, if I have the materials and tooling necessary. I use the tap follower and the micro adjustable carriage stop for my Atlas lathe often. Thank you very much for the time you put into these videos and sharing your wealth of knowledge.
Thanks for a lot of work to run these tests.Wondering if you think doing the full sequence (starter drill, final drill & reamer) at each location before going to the next site might improve the results given it would greatly reduce the number of repositionings?
I really hate to request you do a extra test but here it is. I bet you have already done this.:. Go through the same procedure with the dials but before moving reset the DRO to zeros and then move a specific distance using just the dials. Then look up to see what the DRO says.
You have discussed and demonstrated almost exactly what my old layout mentor taught me over a series of days in my first rotation through layout and Inspection at the close of the first year of my machinist apprenticeship. "Two Tenths" Tommy Thompson was a legend in his day. He was assigned an apprentice or two every month and he had a little program he ran each of us through. His training included among many other things, the ways and means of accurate layout and drilling of holes. Where the work flow didn't include opportunities for each method he had us make dowel pin samples precisely as you demonstraded.
Among the lessons was a firm caution: drills ALWAYS wander a trifle no matter how accurately they are spotted. If a hole is to be precisely located another step is required - boring for location. The boring step may be a location and conditioning step prior to reaming or a location and bore to size step. The option being determined by the availability of a reamer for a particular size and the suitability of the material and the feature for a reaming operation. Call that the seventh method
Tendentious comment: There are a number of options for boring including but (not limited to) a single point boring bar in an adjustable offset boring head, boring with a preset straight boring bar, boring with an end mill, or boring with a straight bar on a lathe. The method selected will depend on the part's function, its required location accuracy, and a number of other factors including time, number of holes, cost, material, etc.
Story: Ron Lampson, an apprentice classmate, was one of the pioneers in the adoption numerical controlled machine tools in my old career shop. In a ship there are many coolers and heat exchangers where excess heat passes through the wall of an array of tubes through which flows circulating salt water. In the shell and tube design, many tubes are fitted in an array between tube sheets. The largest heat exchangers are the main condensers. They incorporate thousands of tubes intended to reject hundreds of thousands of kilowatts of latent heat from the condensing steam from the ship's main engines. Here the tube sheets are drilled, reamed, and grooved; each a precision feature such that the tube, when inserted and expanded by internal rolling, provides a tight and corrosion resistant seal: even a tiny leak of salt water into the condensate could, if undetected, contaminate the feed water and ruin the ship's boilers.
Back in the day tube sheets were drilled in a radial arm drill press by an utterly reliable, premium pay driller who might take a week to drill, etc a 3200 hole copper nickel alloy tube sheet. Every hole had to be in tolerance and inspected. Discrepant holes had to be re-worked often at great expense at nail biting surgical risk.
Enter early years of numerical control where a 4 ft x 20 ft gantry mill re-purposed with a control, servos, ball screws, tool changer, etc replaced Dick Army, a driller of long experience only too happy to be rid of a tedious, stressful part of his workload. If the tooling could be mastered: reamed holes in copper nickel (a soft but tough and surprisingly abrasive alloy) could vary several thousandths from hole to hole using the traditional stock allowance.
Ron found reducing reaming stock to an ideal 0.003" - 0.005" and using carbide reamers with 0.003" per inch back taper, he could not only hold half thousandth consistancy but drill an entire tube sheet with a single set of tooling. His is the reamed hole recipe I follow to the present day: spot, drill, bore with end mill (I keep a set of undersized extension end mills in my lower chest) and ream. My over/under dowel pin reamer set is 45 years old and all but three have been sharpened once. The three most often used have been sharpened several times. The point is they all hold 0.0001" of measured size and within 0.0005" of set location after all this time and countless difficult materials, thanks, I think, to Ron Lampson's experiments in 1969.
Great reading. Thanks.
very interesting
I really appreciate this comment. Thanks for taking the time to write it.
Hi, Pete, an English major here. In answer to your question, no, your use of an anvil in the pursuit of precision is not an anachronism. Any tool properly used in reaching your ultimate goal is valid.
By the way, if I had known you thirty-five years ago, I would have chosen a different major, and I would have had a completely different career. Regardless, better late than never, and my garage full of machine tools is a testament to the power of your influence and the mastery of your teaching skills. Many thanks for showing all of us your secrets. It's the most fun I've ever had. You are the man!
Thank you very much. I appreciate the kind words. You made my day and I am very encouraged
Does Annie Juan say anachronism Annie Moore? Anachronism may be the most anachronistic
God gives each of us diffent gifts, it is our responsability to find and use those gifts with happness minus the bordom of doing jobs we have no gifts for! Manual Machine Work is my gift,but I was very old when I discovered the art... God Bless you Tublacain for your many talents...
Have any idea how much this video has helped anyone who watched and listened to the two part series. The benefits are simply "PRICELESS"!
I looked thru the comments but couldn't see where anybody pointed out if you want really good results you have to lock your quill and raise the table. The quill has to have clearance or you can't move it, this clearance results in the spindle being able to walk and thus your holes will move. Of course if your table to knee wys are sloppy it might actually be worse that way but usually the lots of extra mass in the knee and table makes it less prone to moving than the quill is. Put a dial indicator at the end of your drill bit and wiggle the quill and see how much play you get. It would not surprise me to see .002-.003" even on a pretty good shape unit.
Good points Brian. I hope a few people read those comments. As you know there are endless variables.
I generally use screw machine drills if possible, less flex. If I need to spot I'll use just the end of a center drill, very stiff and at 120 degrees very close the the angle on my drills (118.) I don't have a set of spotting drills. I've tested the play in the mill quill, surprisingly tight. I do use the knee when I need a very accurate depth because it has a DRO scale. I don't have very many reamers and am considering an over & under set. Would I be better off with an even size set? Good presentation, thank you.
bcbloc02 excellent points
Even though retired teacher you should still be in the running for Teacher of the Year thank you mr. Pete
You’re a wonderful teacher! I’m mainly a woodworker, but enjoy making things. I’ve learned more from your videos than I have in the past few years of reading up on this stuff.
Thank you very much
Great Series Mr. Pete. I appreciate your effort to make newbies like me better. Thank you Sir.
Joe
Thanks
As good a DIY videos that I have ever seen. "Our" Mr Pete is not of this world. And most of us know what you are "of". Praise His name.
Thank you kind Sir. We luv "yuz" MUCHLY!
Thank you, Tubalcain, very much for the explanation of these 6 methods. The atlas drill press vise method was of great interest to me as I have such a vise and did not know this method at all. These nuggets of information is why I value your channel so highly.
Thanks
Young Fella...I learned quite a lot in these two Videos! Thanks!
Thanks
Next level machining video - addressing simple, but so difficult topics at the same time. Thank you!
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English major here and I do own a mill and I'm here! Your anvil and precision work are just fine!
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Im from the Philipines when i was young my dream is to become a machinist but to expensive here to study that now im 45 so im a prostrated machinist but watching u doing all these for us making me keep on dreaming thanx mr pete god bless u n your family.
Excellent video Mr. Pete !
Thank you very much for making the effort to demonstrate all those methods. It was extremely useful.
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Great 2 parter Mr. Pete! This one is particularly interesting. This type of layout comes about very often and it is nice to see all the different methods! I would like to see it done with the dial indicators. That was a bit of a teaser! Thanks for this and all your videos. 🏆📽🔧⚙️🗜
Very useful video. I have struggled with this for a while being self or U-tube educated. Thanks for putting it all in perspective. I appreciate Brian's comments about quill movement as well.
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You were talking for granted that the calliper’s are spot on accurate I wonder if the surprising results with DRO could actually be in the calliper and the 2tenths of the pins combined
With great respect, and humility Mr Pete, I was always told from day one by all my mentors...ALWAYS BACK OFF ONE FULL TURN OF THE DIAL to eliminate ALL backlash. If I may say so, I think that is WHERE the WEAR may have got you on your pin spacing of #4 coupon. You did mention to "BACK IT WAY UP". Great work on this important subject.
Thanks Mr. Pete!! Excellent videos. I enjoy your teaching.
All the best,
Norm in AZ
This seems like one of those tasks that is a challenge... Since I'm retired and have nothing better to do than fool around with tools, measurements and my skill.... I like the format. I'm going to see how it works for me in my shop. FUN. When I was young, I thought fun was fast cars and loose women, now it's tight tolerances and rock solid machinery. Hmmm.
An excellent investigation into drilling multiple holes accurately.
The Bridgeport dials only example really illustrated why jig boring machines were used in the old days to obtain accurate results in making tooling (jigs and fixtures) for manufacturing. Three-thousandths off wouldn't have cut it, in most cases (even though you very careful in setting up the Bridgeport). Very interesting experiment, and thank you for your fine presentation.
NOTE: I added this comment just before you pointed out this salient fact. Sorry.
Love these old videos
Very interesting video series Lyle 👍
Thanks Lyle, great job you are doing.
Thanks
Dear Mr Pete, as usual another very interesting presentation. Look forward to you videos. Kind regards, Dennis your South African youtube student/follower
Thanks
Thanks for a really interesting two part video. One of your best.
A good comparison of different methods.
Just the video i needed to see as I have been thinking of making a slotted welding table for quite a while now, what i was going to do was make an accurate template, then drill the holes using my magnetic drill with annular cutters which are far better then twist drills for accuracy, MD was one of the best tools i have ever bought.
Really interesting. I guess another way of thinking about the elimination of backlash on the mill is to always approach the desired position using the same direction of rotation of the handle. E.g. always approach using anticlockwise motion. So if you need to rotate clockwise to get to the next position, deliberately overshoot the clockwise movement and then use an anticlockwise motion for finally approaching the position.
You can either overshoot it or you can first back it off.
In this example, for the last hole, you'd first go into positive direction on X axis and then in negative direction until you reach X=0, without the need to overshoot.
Exactly..
Interesting and timely video. I was grappling with this exact problem yesterday in my shop. Your video helped, thanks.
Mr. Pete, great video. I did this same test on my Taig mill some time ago. Using dials, the holes were within 25 thousands of expectations. Using dro, right on. Only difference was I did all 3 operations prior to moving on to next hole. In testing outcome on each of your tests. Thank you.
I was impressed with the atlas drill press setup. I have one of those and should use it more often I guess.
Great job on the compare of the the many methods.
Thanks
Excellent couple of vids lyle
Very good experiment Mr. Pete. It gives me confidence in my humble tooling. Thanks for all the time you took to do this.
Even allowing for aging eyes (which I have as well), I was surprised to see that the optical center punch results were as bad as they were. - I bought a cheap one a while back, but never really used it, most of the time just let the punch find the intersection of the scribe lines. I have a height gauge that I’ve never used till now, and thanks to these two videos now realize I should think of it as a “distance from edge” gauge, rather than just height.
As I’m a complete noob machinist, I always learn something valuable from your videos, that was the tidbit for today. Thanks! 👍😁
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Mr. Pete,
Excellent tutorial! For my needs and since I have yet to get a DRO equipped mill I’m gonna go with the height gage layout method. At some point (and until my wife comes up with something that requires dead on accuracy) I will acquire the DRO feature.
For many years I created very fine furniture that I thought required pretty precision mating of material. Then somewhere along the line I got the metal bug and I realized no way , no how were my wood pieces even remotely close! Now when I go back briefly to the wood shop for a change of pace I quickly become frustrated with simple measurements even though I have some pretty decent equipment. Wood MOVES just too darn much! Metal moves too, I know but that doesn’t seem to bother me as much. Anyway, Mr. Pete, I learned from you today and thank you.
Dale
We notice the difference at work between Aussie grown pine and Latvian imported pine. The Latvian stuff is lighter for a giving size with the growth rings further apart and it splits more easily.
Good Video Mr Pete. When I was still in the shop it was a commonplace to try to eke out every bit of accuracy from the Bridgeport Mills. It was the goal to try to have mating parts with dowel pins slip together, one part with press fit holes for the dowels, and the other part with slip fits. My basic procedure went as follows: 1) Snug the table locks every so slightly. They should turn freely with a bit of drag. Do not touch them again during the process. 2) Using the DRO slowly creep up on the number staying .0005" away. wait a few seconds as the machine will usually "creep" into place. 3) Spot drill hole. 4) "Qualify" hole location with an end mill a few thousands under size from finish 5) Ream hole to finish size.
I always kept the screw lash in the same direction. It seemed to help. I can only speculate why.
BTW, I ran an Index vertical mill in my pre-DRO days. I LOVED that machine I felt that the screws were more accurate than the Bridgeport mill. Plus it's movements were as smooth as silk. All the other guys in the shop were used to the Bridgeports, so I always had a machine for my work.
What a great video Lyle i always used to file the pins to true up my holes .now i know where i went wrong. But offset holes never stopped me completing a project cheers mate HAPPY PROSPEROUS NEW YEAR.
Very interesting that the quick and easy Height Gauge method using conventional workshop machinery and tools gave such accurate results. Admittedly, good height gauges bought new are expensive, but they seem easy to come by second hand for modest sums of money.
Yes
Good teaching. I found for my mini mill using the DRO, to lock both X & Y. However I have to watch the readouts as the locks can cause it to drift. Upgrading it w/DRO was a big help.
Your nickname verse: Bereshith (Gen.) 4:22 As for Tsillah, she also bore Tuḇal-Qayin, a smith of all kinds of tools in bronze and iron. And the sister of Tuḇal-Qayin was Naʽamah.👍
Thank you for watching, and the mini lesson on Genesis.
I liked it but I like everything you present. I’m an amateur wood-butcher so I’ll never need this fine detail in measurement but everything I observe is another tool in my my mental toolbox. Maybe precision furniture is in my future. Thank you.
lol
Bravo! What a lovely and useful series. Fabulous how you choose techniques that are possible for most folk from limited tools to DRO and showed the practical consequences in a kind of application that one often meets. Many years ago I completed an optical centre punch that someone else had begun, aluminium base, no magnets but as I often work aluminium and brass it was fine for me and I still use it. The biggest advance for me though came from you several years ago when you showed how to make deep scribe lines and then follow along one till feeling the other and then punch at that point. That was game changing for me and I have often thought a silent thank you for how this helped me doing layout and making holes. Thanks for sharing!
Excellent Mr. Pete, really interesting results there. Thanks for sharing!
DRO's have come down in price, but still not cheap. I hope to get one for the Bridgeport someday, but until then the dials will have to do.
Hi Lyle the DTI would get you the nearest I guess, why don’t you try it, great videos always makes my day.
Wonderfull wonderful wonderful, still a fan of #2 technique, best wishes from an old guy in Orlando, Paul
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I noticed your DRO is in increments of 0.0005", which means you've got a raw measurement uncertainty between any 2 holes of 0.001", not to mention linearity, etc.
I'm pretty impressed with the cross-slide vice at the end, I'd be interested to see how accurate you could do on it with a pair of dial indicators watching your X/Y travel.
Thanks again for putting out videos like this and keeping us all learning.
Always enjoy your videos. Couple thoughts. Measure the hole position somehow instead of the banged-in/pressed position of the dowel pin - a slide fit on the gauge pin/dowel, etc. After locking the dial to 0, take any backlash out again before starting - seems impossible to lock a dial without something moving. Use an center drill. Like the anvil inclusion :)
Very useful video for us newbies. Thanks!
Thanks
Mr. Pete, my degree in English is from U.T. Austin. In my educated opinion, your statement is NOT an anachronism, but just good b.s. Thanks for the video
My daughter also has an English degree from U.T. Austin. I’m sure she would agree. As for myself, why not use the anvil to back up the work?
I hope your grand kids are interested in learning from you! You have a wealth of knowledge and I would have loved having you for a teacher in school or now for that matter!Most kids today have no interest in anything other than their phones but, I teach my daughters mechanical skills because I want them to become independent like me! I never ask anyone for any kind of help paid or free! If I don't know how to do a job I learn and the worse I can do is mess it up!
Jordan is the only one interested. The other is ignore what I do and have their own agenda
mrpete222 well at least you have one interested! One day they will regret not learning all they can because skills like this are getting scarce. Im watching your videos right now on my TV as I type so keep the videos coming! P.S. on a side note I seen a video where you were taking criticism over the length of your videos! You are the one who does the work to create them so don't worry about negative comments. Make them as short or long as you please. Trolls are everywhere. Thanks.
@@kevinburks110 I agree with you. I think anyone that can't watch a longer video can't be to interested. I would watch one all day if I could keep learning and be taught things till the subject is exhausted. Love to learn so keep them coming Mr Pete. I have a lot of catching up to do to watch all your videos.
Dale in Canada
Really an informative video Mr. Pete. I found it quite interesting. Thank you.
Gary 75 (almost 76) Year-Old Home-Shop-Machinist
Thanks 👍👍
August 2, 1943 for me
@@mrpete222 April 5, 1943, for me.
We are close.....
You just added a few more strings to my bow, thanks, having just got a brand new small milling machine(without dro) i can now try a few variables although what i do if its only a hair out I will be happy and only I will know. A dro is on the wish list and will probably be my next purchase as I am running short of lamp oil(eyesight not so good for small dial reading) thanks again for sharing some more of your remarkable knowledge and in an easy understandable way.
Thanks
I love watching your videos, and I learned a lot. I am definitely a newbie with the mill but have pretty good experience in trigonometry. I would’ve liked to see that you measured the pins on a diagonal to check for squareness. If they were perfectly square the dimension would be 1.410”
Also, based on the hypotenuse your readings with your caliper aren’t necessarily correct. You would be looking for the lowest possible number to be the most accurate. For example, if you have a range between .997 and 1.003, the lower number would be the most accurate because it is the straightest line between the two points. Anything larger would obviously be on an angle.
Thanks
That’s interesting. I just recently retired from welding and fabrication. I always tried to incorporate math into my layout and problem solving. The figures 1.414 and .707 were some I figured out and made note of when calculating a hypotenuse or a side from a hypotenuse. It surprised me when I got online later to learn about trigonometry, that these figures were taught. I have great respect for people who learned and apply mathematics into their lives.
I first saw your use of transfer screws, they're really handy. I made some myself once for a project i was working on.
As a result it turned out great.
Thanks great video
Any of those methods would be good enough for what I do..diemakers and toolmakers have the most expensive toys for a very good reason. Great video! Thanks, Mr. Pete! :-)
Thank you very much, I really enjoyed the video and your dedication!
Volker
Really enjoyed your video, I liked the method your brother showed you best. I needed a small part with just such hole spacing a few years ago and used up an entire 12" sheet of 1/4 plate without success. More recently I made a battery adapter which needed 4 brass sockets in the top to accept the 4 prong plug of a radio. Could I drill the holes perfectly, no, I pushed the brass sockets I made onto the plugs pins and drilled the wood adapter holes oversize and glued the assembly carefully into it. When set it was a perfect fit but I guess you can't do that with steel, thanks.
Mr Pete- A Hammer and Anvil Mechanic........ Just kidding you, enjoyed this
Great two part tutorial Lyle. Thank you. btw,,, going from the 750 back to zero,, I would usually move more forward, let's say to 800, then return to zero. I don't think it makes a difference but with this stuff, you never know.,,, at least I don't lol.
I purchased an optical center punch set up a couple of years ago, and my results were similar. I suspect that we all expect the accuracy of the "optical" tool to supercede the accuracy of the layout itself. In fact, this tool introduces another step where errors may creep in. Even if one were to adhere a drawing to the surface of the steel and work off that, the finished job would be largely dependent on the accuracy of the drawing. probably not a good idea. Your video shows both the sound layout practice of "yesteryear" and the inherent accuracy of digital technology. Thanks for the posting, and put the "gizmo" in the back of the tool box.
Thanks Mr. Pete I have an Atlas table never really used it after seeing this I intend to use it more... 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Yes, break it out
Thanks, very interesting results.
I want to see the same test, blind folded with a Black & Decker manual hand drill! I bet this will be your best result!!!! Thanks for an enjoyable video!!!!!!!
lol
Blows my mind that there is such inaccuracie despite those accurate jigs. WOW. :-)
Thanks for the two videos, very interesting. For me I have to assume the drill operations have the least accuracy here thus removing all the better operations before it.
I have a Palmgren x/y vise. Great series Lyle
I have one that only has the Y axis. nice little vise, but I haven't really found any use for it over a regular vise.
Another fine lesson buy the old buggy whip maker . Thanks Pete
You are right, it is strictly old fashion stuff except for the DRO
Thank you My long unanswered question? I believe last video you mentioned using an Index
mill with "tic" marks on the face of the table. My mill a Cincinnati has those and there is no mention in the book what they are for, so now I know, again thanks for that tip.......
A really great teacher.
Absolutely loved these 2 videos Sir, informative and entertaining
I have no dro on my mill, so I'm a height gauge and prick punch, or trust the dials kinda guy
Thank you very much
Some very useful lessons Mr Pete. And I feel a lot better about my own efforts to accuracy also. I have used all of your methods except the DRO, now I really must get one fitted. As for the optical centre finder, maybe a little too much enthusiasm with the mallet??--- I have achieved exactly the same results with my optical finder too :-)
Thanks for a very interesting video. I have attempted to drill accurately spaced holes to make a wire bending fixture using a combination square and hand center punch and just a small center drill and a regular drill of the appropriate size. Took three separate attempts to make one that was close to successful. I don't have a milling machine so the drill press had to do.
Very informative video, as usual. While demonstrating how to remove the backlash on the Y axis just before drilling hole # 3 you seem to position the handle differently after removing the backlash. First time the ball was at approx. the 1 o'clock position (time stamp 7:35), but after correcting an overshoot you came back at approx. 3 o'clock (time stamp 7:43). If the crank was 2/12 or 1/6 of a full turn short, I would expect the distance between pin # 2 and pin # 3 to be approx 33 thousands off (200 thou / revolution x 1/6 revolution). I guess you must have adjusted again off camera...
I do not remember what I was doing
Before I got a DRO on my mill, I used tool makers buttons for accurate hole spacing.
eg for two 1/4" holes spaced one inch between centres, turn a pair of 1" diameter buttons each with a 1/4" hole; clamp to the work touching each other and drill through the holes into the work ...
I have used similar ideas and this produces the best results.
Excellent information!
I think, the results with all methods were remarkable good. If one wants really to work in a range of one thou or even less, things start to be complicated. You need high $ equipment, a good temperature management, expensive measuring equipment, and so on. Good luck, if somebody thinks, with a drill press, a vice a few random drill bits, and a caliper he could do precise work in tenth, lol. There is a good reason for the expensive stuff.Btw, even today a envil is a valid tool. You just have to make shure, it is a digital one. Means full blow witg a hammer, or not. No half strikes :-)
Interesting and useful..the shop here in the UK who made all my dies and tools wouldn't use digital calipers, old style micrometers all the way..I always use digital calipers, Mitutoyo, in my own shop..
It will not alter the word stile to style. Bloody spell checker.
Mr. Pete,
A possible measuring error in your demo would be the accuracy of your calipers. Most good calipers are plus or minus .001 inches. Another possible error would be the thickness of the steels plates. 3/8" or thicker would minimize any possible tilt of the pins. Don't mean to nit pic. Good illustration of how hard it is to maintain accuracy. Enjoyed it.
Yet another interesting video Mr Pete as said earlier I too would have like you to have used a couple of dial indicators for a 7th option.
I had considered that. But I had to stop at some point, and Call it good enough
Great compilation. The punch method is impressive. I've had good luck putting a punch in the quill and making marks as needed. The quill repeats like crazy so table movement is the only error.
The optical centers were a disappointment. Maybe it is because the mark caused by the bottom of the foot is all the way to one side of the scratch. I always line my crosshairs down the middle of the scratch and now I'll use the edge if appropriate.
"Exerting a tenth of a gram of pressure" we were all chuckling with you!
lol
Thanks for yet another educating video.My mini mill, Chinese of course, looks very similiar to a Sieg, S2, I think. When locking X the locking itself causes a move of 1/2 to 1 thou. Locking Y brings no move. The Z is a sad story...How to overcome the unwanted move in X?
Thanks, that was very interesting!
Thank you Sir, very interesting. With the DRO and dials getting it on the 1st mark accurately is the most critical otherwise eveything will be off. It would be great if you could show us a few tricks and methods of locating your drill point exactly on the mark. I normally use a sticky pin or wobbler if you have some other tricks it would be interesting.
I have to admit that I am fare from being as good as you are and the only way I can even approach your level is by using templates :-)
I do make hole templates over and over again until I have reached the level (mostly by luck) I can be okay with and then I do place the template on my project and drill.
I am actually an English major! Not an anachronism, only slightly ironic. I believe in the importance of Learning throughout the entire duration of one's lifespan, that's why an English major is watching this!
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Lyle, I always love when you say 'MagicMarker' because that is the term I use, not Sharpie......
these young whippersnappers have no Idea what I am talking about, I guess we are showing
what generation we came up in......best wishes.Paul
lol
@@mrpete222 Spending a Rainey day here watching all the great stuff you have produced.....thank you so much, Paul
Very interesting!!! Thank You.
Thanks for making these videos. Suggest you use some WD40 and Scotchbrite on the Atlas table dials, then once the dials are cleaned up, put some oil on them to keep them from rusting again. You can also make larger dials or purchase larger dials on eBay. These are the same dials Atlas used on the 10” lathe. Regarding the Bridgeport DRO method not being ‘perfect’ locking the x & y probably makes the table and saddle move a few microns. I know it does on my older BP with DRO as the ways probably could stand to be scraped.
Those tables are just in Mr. Pete's junk collection. It is not like he needs or uses them.
VERY interesting Lyle, I too would have thought the DRO would have been perfect, not sure how you would have any deflection on your starter drill being so rigid to make it be off.
Thank you very much. This was lovely & useful.
The accuracy of any method you showed in this video can be increased beginning drilling holes using short centering drill to prevent sliding drill on surfaces, elasticity of any kind of tool wich can cause a litle deflection from choosen position, an unusual method to reduce the backlash error is to have two shafts on same direction and not the last depends of punching method of pins to keep their prependicularity. Of course for a beginner, showed methods are a good start.
Thanks so much for this excellent video. I feel like I am attending an expensive course, and yes I am actually taking handwritten notes. Being mainly a woodworker I had overlooked how difficult it is to make really accurate holes. I am actually making a hole jig in steel to make accurate holes in wood. Of course then you have the added problem of holding the wood. Note the cheaper x.y tables are not that accurate.
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I had a shop teacher back in high school that tested the students with projects like that and we were graded on accuracy. We too had to use the dials on the machine with no help from a micrometer.
That was a good learning exercise
@@mrpete222 yes indeed ! The teachers i had really cared and took the time to help someone who was struggling.
I guess that the best way to choose your drilling method, is to FIRST, look at the schematic and read what tolerance is required for that particular part... ;)
That's a good representation of actual results someone will get with the different methods, quite well done..!!!
Accuracy you don't need is a waste of time. Expecting too much accuracy in my garage is a bit of a stretch too. So I always try to work accordingly.
Or do your drilling first, then write the schematic to match the work. :)
@@MrUbiquitousTech When it really matters I clamp the pieces together and drill them together. Works every time.
@@1pcfred That's a good idea.
@@MrUbiquitousTech another trick I figured out was to use a spud and unlock the head of my mill then set the spud in the punch mark and lock the Z axis down and retighten the head. That gets me real close to at least where I punch marked for drilling. Drill bits themselves are not very center pointy. But a spud is. So it'll sit right down in a punch mark. I used to spin the chuck by hand with a drill in it looking at it this way and that trying to see if the drill was really in the punch mark. Skip that. Give me a sharp spud point any day. I'm consistently a few thousands closer spotting with a spud than a drill bit and it is way easier. How accurately I can punch something is a matter of debate at times though. One other thing I've come to believe is to not design anything that needs to be terribly accurate in order to work in the first place.
Another great video. Thanks Lyle. Just an idea for a future video, I would like to see the process, how to set your drill press table tru to the spindle.
MACHINE SHOP TIPS #92 Tramming a Drill Press Table tubalcain
@@mrpete222 Thank you. Now maybe I can get my Delta drill press drilling straight holes.
Just a side note. I really miss your videos where you actually build things. I have followed along and built all of the tools and accessories that interest me, if I have the materials and tooling necessary. I use the tap follower and the micro adjustable carriage stop for my Atlas lathe often. Thank you very much for the time you put into these videos and sharing your wealth of knowledge.
Thanks for a lot of work to run these tests.Wondering if you think doing the full sequence (starter drill, final drill & reamer) at each location before going to the next site might improve the results given it would greatly reduce the number of repositionings?
I really hate to request you do a extra test but here it is. I bet you have already done this.:. Go through the same procedure with the dials but before moving reset the DRO to zeros and then move a specific distance using just the dials. Then look up to see what the DRO says.
I had considered that, but I think I beat the subject to death