@@mrpete222 Yes! This is so educational and information not readily come by on the internet. Seems like this can only be learnt from those who've been around!
They prolly thought there was some slick trick to get a drill to do a square hole. It is what he h advertised; "Drill a square hole." Maybe they just don't get his sense of humor.
Crafty old fox technique here. I never thought of forming a square or rectangle in round stock with this method. If it was silver soldered or brazed it would have near as much integrity as if made from a solid piece. Today,I found myself enlightened by an old school shop teacher👏👏
Silver soldering is a great idea. I think I would widen the slot width above the 1/4" square opening to 0.315" for a 0.312" filler blank. EDIT 1: The 1/32 land on each side establishes the 1/4 opening, any silver solder closing the opening would need to be filed away (silver solder tends to fillet radius sharp corners and gaps per your supplies and torch skills). EDIT 2: A dovetailed filler slot could be endmilled above the 1/4" opening with a reverse taper one lunger cutter for silver soldering a dovetail filler piece. Any sidewall could be drilled and tapped into the 1/4" opening for a setscrew(s). No cross pins, HSS blank or aluminum shim would be would be required. This procedure could be used to form an opening across the diameter with a 1/4" wide slitting cutter in a Bridgeport. Shop made boring bar?
@@waynespyker5731 I think the technique I'd use would be raise the end mill to half depth in the slot and machine an extra few thou from either side of the slot. That gives you the ideal gap for braze/silver solder fillet but leaves the lower half the slot tight on the insert piece for accurate location. It would also prevent any silver solder from running through into the square hole area.
Thanks. I miss machining. I did it in High School and for a few years, I had a friend that had a machine shop in his basement but he has since passed away. I was a lathe operator for 11 months after I got out of high school but decided to change my profession and became an HVAC technician. I always loved machining and miss it. I really enjoyed watching you do this project. Thanks again.
Well now I know what a Rose index is and how to use it! great idea, and even at 78 I'm still learning things thank you for taking the time to show us young'ins a thing or two. "Whats that old adage, "You're never too old to learn" I just proved that. thanks again.
That Rose Index looks like a tool that an apprentice machinist would be requited to make while learning skills. They would ultimately add this item to their tool collection and use over their entire career.
@@G58 Still, patents don't limit someone from making one for his own private use. It protects against other people monitizing the idea. That does indeed rule out a lot of users, but just saying. And whilst I give cudos to the inventor, when I saw it in the video I was sure that tool was a really old one. It's mind buggling that in the world of machining this no one has come up with this earlier.
Dear Mr. Pete This video was my very first of your channel. I say that it is my very first in the sense that I have just begun to Learn metalworking and machining after a long career in medicine. I find it to be absolutely an art of precision and of patients/patience. I truly find it fascinating to be able to create something and I find it extremely soothing and truly do appreciate the time you take to put into your videos to help novices is like myself. Thank you so much for your quality content Cheers Mike from Philadelphia
I love being a machinist for 26yrs and watching tricks from older machinists at our shop we tell the young guys to never make a man mad at you because he'll never show you any of his tricks!
FOR SURE...use copper when removing a broken bolt/stud in metal piece, around and inside the hole....then , mig weld to the stud, (slowest rate) and remove. copper wont weld.....and separates the main metal, from the arc.....
Regarding the loctite on the inner surfaces of the insert. That would actually help pretty substantially. As a general rule (or so my mechanical engineering professors told me), adhesives are most effective in compression and shear stress scenarios, but less so in tension. Trying to slide that insert out would be pure shear which would be among the ideal scenarios for an adhesive. Additionally, all that extra surface area would distribute the force too (meaning less shear stress) thus it would take even more force to break it out.
Yep. Those "Old Machinist's" were a "Tricky Lot". One thing my dad, "They call me a 'Tool Maker', but not by 'East Coast' standards" said [we're from New England] at the shop in Santa Monica, Ca in '62 was that if you walked away from the machine, back off a 0.001" before you start in again because everything has cooled down and changed dimensions. He did this on an old, non-numerical read out, manual (dial only) Bridgeport Mill and could work +0.00003"/0.0000.0" tolerances all day long.
Great way to do it! I would use silver solder it to give similar strength to a broached part. One big advantage of the demonstrated technique is that it works for odd dimensions and bottom holes. Silver solder is one of my favorite materials when building prototypes. Also this way may actually be easier than broaching or odd geometries such as angled holes.
I took machining courses in Jr. College and had seasoned instructors like this guy. I only worked as a machinist for 2 years then quit because my boss was such an a hole and I believed the whole industry would be like my boss.
Either way, it's the same principle as "Draw Boring" in woodworking used 14th century through early 20th century solid furniture - most noticeable in "Craftsman", or Mission Style" furniture.
Great instructional video, Mr. Pete. There aren't many of you old machinists left; great that you're sharing your time, talent, and expertise. Its a shame that kids nowadays do not appreciate the learning experience of somethin like this. It teaches, math, planning and execution to accomplish this.
I agree. Taking the time to share your experience is important. The world has changed so much and as a person who went down a path not many people choose makes it difficult to express how much I am thankful for patiently explaining your thought process. Never stop sharing your work....please.
Mr pete. Love your channel. I have been machining for nearly 40 years and i still learn some things from you. You have a great honest and no nonsense approach. Thanks for taking the time to do this type of education.
He explicitly commented on doing this instead of purchasing the relatively expensive broach for a one-time use. It all comes down to how much your time is worth, and how long it would take you to do this, versus buying the broaching equipment. For a lot of home shops, this method makes a lot more sense, even if it does take longer and more work.
Great work Timm, you remind me of my dad where he tought me a lot about machining, look forward to more. BTW, you just cost me $149 dollars, I just purchased a rose index, haha, great tool to have in your box :-) thank you again
Thank you for the kind words. It means alot. The 2" inventory will probably be used up in a week, however I'm gearing up for another batch of parts. There are still plenty of 1" models available. I look forward to future comments from you and others.......I want to hear if you still feel as if I cost you some money, or if your acquisition was a valuable purchase and you'd happily do it again. Be well and thank you
Watching Mr Pete for all these years, I have become convinced that it would take me TWO LIFETIMES - at least - of learning and training to barely get to shouting distance of Mr Pete. You are a LION sir ! Thank you once more, cheers.
Timm thank you for the video. I am a 1 year in fabricator and you just showed me more in these minutes than I have learned about our mill this whole last year. Thank you and you have a new subscriber. I look forward to more of your videos, stay safe.
CmdrMoros This video was made by Mr. Pete. I'm just the guy who made the block he used in his video. Mr. Pete is the teacher that disserves your kind words.
I love how a good engineer has a ‘toolbox’ of ideas on how to solve a problem .... that’s makes engineering fascinating. I’m actually an electronics engineer but from time to time, mechanical engineering knowledge is very much an essential ally when constructing a project. From an electronics point of view, mechanical is very much the bedfellow.
I liked that tip. All of these simpler processes held in memory can be combined and recombined to provide understanding of much more complex procedures. Before you know it, you’re an older person dispensing wisdom to eager young apprentices via the internet. You are a solid gold asset Mr Pete. 😎👍
Nice job, next time when you edge find go from the rigid jaw you will find it more accurate and once you find the jaw you can use your zero for quite awhile, you could also use a 1/8 endmill to spot for the holes then use a 1/8 pin with a slight straight knurl and just press fit in place and forget the locktite, if you are going to use it for holding a cutting tool the locktite can come loose from the heat and that won't be good. Just passing on some of my over 50 years of machine shop knowledge
I now know what a rose index is. Of course the manufactures and retailers of rose indexes never make videos like these for the public and they are supposed to be the ones that inform the public about their products. Thanks for doing what they should do.
Thanks my grandpa was a machinist for Litton Industries! I have most of his tools and things he left for me! It a pleasure to see some one carry it into a new world!!
at the mature age of 57 years old i have never had an idol in my life but mrpete would qualify as a potential candidate, he is a pot of gold of fabrication knowledge.
Welcome aboard! I have 16 or 1800 videos for you to watch. Make sure that you search for my videos under the word Tubalcain. They will not appear automatically as I have been shadow banned by YT
I am thinking that most folks that would need to make a square hole are probably already in a machine shop. So, then we are talking about shop time versus shop expenditure. There is often a conversation (with yourself or others) whether it is cheaper to buy it (money), or cheaper to make it (shop time). Since my shop time is my own, I often defer to making it just to keep up the skill set, learn something new, etc. Nice job!
Yes, I'll have to make one also. I didn't know about the Rose Index until now, but what a useful tool it will be. BTW, Loctite will set up in less than ten minutes with a little heat from a hair dryer and if already set up, about 200 degrees from a torch will loosen the bond to allow the part to be removed.
This was a very informative video. Thanks for showing the Rose Index. This is a terrific solution. I can only imagine how many other types of tools can be made by leveraging the concepts that you just showed us. You are a wonderful shop teacher... so keep up the good work. Cheers for an excellent video... It was very interesting (definitely NOT boring)
Mr. Pete, these videos are amazing. Documenting a lot of information that MAYBE get's personally handed down to a few people, you are opening this information up to everyone! Thank you so much for taking the time to do this! Subscribed, and look forward to more!
Mr. Pete proving once again there's more than one way to skin a cat! That keyway reminded me a couple of years ago I was using a 3/4 ball mill in the Mazak held with an "inexpensive" off shore made holder. When I turned around the endmill had sucked out of the holder and nearly cut a 200 lb. plate of 4 in. stock in half! Needless to say the holder went for a nice flight toward the chip hopper and we now use a nice Lyndex holder for that job! It cost about five times as much but we've never had another accident. I love my job!
The problem is that with todays shop and labour costs, the broach would often be the cheaper option. Over the last 2 decades, so many traditional engineering companies have not survived. Cheaper imported tools were part of the problem.
G’day Mr Pete. What’s that saying, “ can’t see the forest for the trees” well my thought process was on a rotary broach and when you started milling the slot the penny dropped to what you were up to. I would have forgotten to add the shim for wiggle room for the tool, well done. The Rose thingy looks to be a good shop project, it’s now on my list to do, thanks. I enjoyed the video, thanks. Cheers Peter
I'm just 15. Dad bought me a Milling machine instead of a Video Game player. So I got use to enjoy these kind of video's instead of some one playing a video game lol. Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge.
Congrats on your interests. Stick with it and you will have all sorts of opportunities. Machinists are getting hard to come by and many of us in the trade are bombarded with work. Best of luck to you and your endeavors.
And here I was expecting a rotary broach. I really like this technique. It's certainly superior to the drill press and hand-file method I've used in the past to get square (well squareish if we're being honest) holes in the past.
@@THEJR-of5tf Nope. A trepanning tool would still leave you with a round hole. This Old Tony has a video on what I'm talking about: ruclips.net/video/4-3gPWl6wfU/видео.html
Mr pete, you are the dood, dood. When the day is long, the pay is low, the wife is stressed and the kids are too much, your videos restore balance to my mind. Thank you once again. Take care
@@JohnJones-oy3md Actually that isn't true. law.stackexchange.com/questions/24148/can-i-build-something-for-personal-use-if-it-is-patented#:~:text=In%20the%20US%2C%20if%20you,enough%20to%20qualify%20as%20infringement. However, in reality if you don't tell anyone about it then no one would ever know. It's not the honorable or right thing to do, but you're the one that has to look in the mirror. It's not like they're that expensive.
From a fellow 45 year tool & die maker good job, in today's world plunge EDM would knock it out quickly but like you I live the old ways of making tools.
@@danharold3087 I could draw it up in no time put a thread insert in it and just use it as a plastic part! Why not? It don’t take any forces!! I’ll draw it up! And print one out!
Awesome. I would not have thought to do this if I lived for a million years. How simple. Wow! Thanks to "our" Mr Pete" to introduce us to yet another "Gem". Praise Jesus!
I REALISE THIS VIDEO IS NOT THAT NEW,BUT MR PETE,YOU NEVER CEASE TO AMAZE AND IMPRESS!! I AS THINKING ABOUT SIX DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS. I MUST CONFESS,I DIDNT THINK OF HOW YOU ACTUALLY DID THIS ... WELL DONE! IM NOT A MACHINIS. I DID SPEND NEARLY 25 YEARS AS A CERTIFIED WELDER/IRONWORKER AND CUSTOM SHOP FABRICATION. THERE ARE SOME VERY TALENTED INDIVIDUALS AND LITERALLY JAW DROPPING TRICKS,IF ONE IS WILLING TO APPLY THEMSELVES!! YOUR VIDEOS ARE ALMOST ALWAYS VERY INTERESTING AND YOUR WRY,DRY SENSE OF HUMOR IS A HUGE BONUS!! THANKS SO MUCH FOR LETTING US HAVE A PEEP IN YOUR LITTLE CORNER OF THE SHOP!!
Another way is to take a piece 1/2” round stock and mill a 1/4” slot in it length ways. Drill a 1/2” hole in 30mm stock and slide slotted 1/2” piece you milled and set screw it and the 1/4” tool your trying to hold in place.
you reminded me of my teacher, i just started a new job in a machine shop and i love it, i never realized how you would go about it, but it makes sense now that youve done it, I love the video?
The days when metal and woodwork teachers were retired craftsmen are long gone. Our woodwork teacher was a 77 year old retired cabinet maker. His lessons were awesome and no one played him up, possibly because standing in the corner would probably have involved our arm being clamped in a vice. 😊
@@bobhope866 Because the machining left sufficient room. Note that he could slide the bit in easily, but when the spacer block was clamped in place it would be pressing down on the bit, making it impossible to remove, that tiny clearance from the foil is all that was needed. Note that there is no crush on the sides of the slot at any time in the assembly, so it maintains the machined-in clearance.
My approach would have been to slit the bar horizontally and mill out the two half-pockets inside then weld it back together and turn it to look pretty. This method doesn't require welding, so that's a benefit for some. I suppose a much more patient person than I am could drill a round hole and file it with a square file.
I scored a box of used Dumont square and hex broaches from a tool and die shop auction. I had no idea they were in the lot I purchased until I got home. I was tickled pink. Still haven’t used them, but I know there will come a day. .... Great technique Mr. Pete. It never hurts to have options.
Agree with others below I would like to have one or two of those Rose Index tools. Only because I have the equipment I might choose to tig weld rather than pin, Silver Brazing is also a good choice. Thanks again for your time and "passing on the knowledge"!
@@nelunicoara4483 That is why the earlier shallow tunnel lines on the London underground had to come up to the surface either side of the Thames and use bridges. This prevented them from crossing the river in central London, resulting in a long journey to travel a short distance. Therefor commuters used the mainline to get to the correct side of the river and then completed their journey on the underground. Even after the deep tunnel lines were constructed, people still use this method today, to save time by avoiding all the station stops on a long underground journey.
@@nelunicoara4483 Our earlier tube lines were constructed in the 19th century. The later part of my comment may have confused you if you don't know London. Although we now have deep tunnels, the trains stop at dozens of stations. This make travelling into London by using the mainline followed by a short journey on the tube quicker.
Thanks for this! As a Toolmaker apprentice, unfortunately a lot of Journeymen I get paired up with are ready to retire and aren't interested in teaching anymore, unfortunately I've had to go to RUclips to learn a lot, but thanks for the video.
I have done that but used tapered pins its just one more step using a taper reamer but not needing lock tight. I have also done small square holes using a shaper and a homemade cutter. Most shops no longer have a shaper but I have found it a very useful machine even if it's not used very often. i have a old 7 inch atlas metal shaper a friend at a junkyard gave me because it was in mint condition and he could not see scraping a beautiful piece of machinery.
We have lots of guys here in the UK who for whatever reason cannot afford to spend hundreds if not thousands on equipment in order to complete a job of work so find a way around the problem. The term of endearment is backstreet Mechanics and I think this project easily qualifies. An excellent solution that I think would have many applications and not only in metalwork.
Great, now I have to buy a lathe and a milling machine. Dad always told me that all I needed in life was a cutting torch, a sledgehammer and a welder and I could make anything I needed. Oh, that’s right, I don’t need a round piece of metal with a square or rectangular hole in it. 😬 Great video though, keep them coming.
Very nice job. I figured you'd do the old trick I read about, where you file a square hole into a thin plate jig, harden it, then make a 3 sided cutter that's real long, and use that to drill it on the lathe. Rose indexer looks great.
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How in the hell could anyone give this a thumbs down? This man is gold. Thank you for sharing!
Thank you very much for your support
@@mrpete222 Yes! This is so educational and information not readily come by on the internet. Seems like this can only be learnt from those who've been around!
They prolly thought there was some slick trick to get a drill to do a square hole. It is what he h advertised; "Drill a square hole." Maybe they just don't get his sense of humor.
@@Raul28153 : More than one way to skin One.
Maybe because he goes on and on at the start. We know what he should be trying do from the title, Or else we wouldn't be here.
Crafty old fox technique here. I never thought of forming a square or rectangle in round stock with this method. If it was silver soldered or brazed it would have near as much integrity as if made from a solid piece. Today,I found myself enlightened by an old school shop teacher👏👏
Silver soldering is a great idea. I think I would widen the slot width above the 1/4" square opening to 0.315" for a 0.312" filler blank. EDIT 1: The 1/32 land on each side establishes the 1/4 opening, any silver solder closing the opening would need to be filed away (silver solder tends to fillet radius sharp corners and gaps per your supplies and torch skills). EDIT 2: A dovetailed filler slot could be endmilled above the 1/4" opening with a reverse taper one lunger cutter for silver soldering a dovetail filler piece. Any sidewall could be drilled and tapped into the 1/4" opening for a setscrew(s).
No cross pins, HSS blank or aluminum shim would be would be required.
This procedure could be used to form an opening across the diameter with a 1/4" wide slitting cutter in a Bridgeport. Shop made boring bar?
@@waynespyker5731 I think the technique I'd use would be raise the end mill to half depth in the slot and machine an extra few thou from either side of the slot. That gives you the ideal gap for braze/silver solder fillet but leaves the lower half the slot tight on the insert piece for accurate location. It would also prevent any silver solder from running through into the square hole area.
Thanks. I miss machining. I did it in High School and for a few years, I had a friend that had a machine shop in his basement but he has since passed away. I was a lathe operator for 11 months after I got out of high school but decided to change my profession and became an HVAC technician. I always loved machining and miss it. I really enjoyed watching you do this project. Thanks again.
I am a remedial machinist - it's obvious this guy is a master. Thanks for the great tutorial !
Well now I know what a Rose index is and how to use it! great idea, and even at 78 I'm still learning things thank you for taking the time to show us young'ins a thing or two. "Whats that old adage, "You're never too old to learn" I just proved that. thanks again.
As a long retired machinist, we never had a "rose index", we had to make do with a V block and angle gauges.
That Rose Index looks like a tool that an apprentice machinist would be requited to make while learning skills. They would ultimately add this item to their tool collection and use over their entire career.
That Rose Index, would be a pretty decent shop project. Would work in lots of places that a hex collet holder would not.. Good video.
Good shop project for students-they walk away from class with something useful.
It’s patented. The inventor commented above.
@@G58 Still, patents don't limit someone from making one for his own private use. It protects against other people monitizing the idea. That does indeed rule out a lot of users, but just saying. And whilst I give cudos to the inventor, when I saw it in the video I was sure that tool was a really old one. It's mind buggling that in the world of machining this no one has come up with this earlier.
@@G58 that doesn't prevent you from making a copy for yourself - only from selling them.
Dear Mr. Pete
This video was my very first of your channel. I say that it is my very first in the sense that I have just begun to Learn metalworking and machining after a long career in medicine. I find it to be absolutely an art of precision and of patients/patience. I truly find it fascinating to be able to create something and I find it extremely soothing and truly do appreciate the time you take to put into your videos to help novices is like myself.
Thank you so much for your quality content
Cheers
Mike from Philadelphia
Thank you for watching. Enjoy your new craft
I love being a machinist for 26yrs and watching tricks from older machinists at our shop we tell the young guys to never make a man mad at you because he'll never show you any of his tricks!
FOR SURE...use copper when removing a broken bolt/stud in metal piece, around and inside the hole....then , mig weld to the stud, (slowest rate) and remove. copper wont weld.....and separates the main metal, from the arc.....
Great. Now I have to buy a Rose Index.
I thought the same thing.
Make a Rose indexer. Pretty simple machining project.
Or just use a v-block
@@rstebb311 that is fine for this project where you only nee 90deg, but the Rose gives you 30, 45, 60 & 90deg.
On my shopping list. nice tool.
...there are so many Methods in in this Job - you could never learn enough from the older Machinists! 👍🏻
I never would have thought to do it this way thank you Mr Pete I thought I have to spend hundreds.
The good old "oldtimers". Back then i learned a lot from them during my apprenticeship to become a tool and die maker. This one is new though.
Thanks, Mr. Pete especially for the introduction to the Rose Index, I must have one.
Regarding the loctite on the inner surfaces of the insert. That would actually help pretty substantially. As a general rule (or so my mechanical engineering professors told me), adhesives are most effective in compression and shear stress scenarios, but less so in tension. Trying to slide that insert out would be pure shear which would be among the ideal scenarios for an adhesive. Additionally, all that extra surface area would distribute the force too (meaning less shear stress) thus it would take even more force to break it out.
Old machinists trick. A lost art. Thank you for reminding me of this!
Yep. Those "Old Machinist's" were a "Tricky Lot". One thing my dad, "They call me a 'Tool Maker', but not by 'East Coast' standards" said [we're from New England] at the shop in Santa Monica, Ca in '62 was that if you walked away from the machine, back off a 0.001" before you start in again because everything has cooled down and changed dimensions. He did this on an old, non-numerical read out, manual (dial only) Bridgeport Mill and could work +0.00003"/0.0000.0" tolerances all day long.
Great way to do it! I would use silver solder it to give similar strength to a broached part. One big advantage of the demonstrated technique is that it works for odd dimensions and bottom holes. Silver solder is one of my favorite materials when building prototypes. Also this way may actually be easier than broaching or odd geometries such as angled holes.
If only we all had shop teachers like this.
No kidding.
I took machining courses in Jr. College and had seasoned instructors like this guy. I only worked as a machinist for 2 years then quit because my boss was such an a hole and I believed the whole industry would be like my boss.
Hey Mr. Pete!
One suggestion for pinning the filler material into place... Use mild steel taper pins driven home firmly with the Loctite.
Ken
Either way, it's the same principle as "Draw Boring" in woodworking used 14th century through early 20th century solid furniture - most noticeable in "Craftsman", or Mission Style" furniture.
Wow, around the block twice , two county fairs and one dog and pony show , but never seen a Rose Index . 🤔 . Gotta have one now .
Great instructional video, Mr. Pete. There aren't many of you old machinists left; great that you're sharing your time, talent, and expertise. Its a shame that kids nowadays do not appreciate the learning experience of somethin like this. It teaches, math, planning and execution to accomplish this.
Thank you very much
I agree. Taking the time to share your experience is important.
The world has changed so much and as a person who went down a path not many people choose makes it difficult to express how much I am thankful for patiently explaining your thought process.
Never stop sharing your work....please.
May I say - Mr Pete is not an old machinist, he is timeless! And we thank him for his teaching.
Mr pete. Love your channel. I have been machining for nearly 40 years and i still learn some things from you. You have a great honest and no nonsense approach. Thanks for taking the time to do this type of education.
👍👍👍
Saving of money and time to get a broach for this job Hands off to you sir i am from india.
He explicitly commented on doing this instead of purchasing the relatively expensive broach for a one-time use. It all comes down to how much your time is worth, and how long it would take you to do this, versus buying the broaching equipment. For a lot of home shops, this method makes a lot more sense, even if it does take longer and more work.
That takes me back to 1964, when I began my engineering apprenticeship. I am retired now but engineering is such an amazing subject.
Great work Timm, you remind me of my dad where he tought me a lot about machining, look forward to more. BTW, you just cost me $149 dollars, I just purchased a rose index, haha, great tool to have in your box :-) thank you again
Thank you for the kind words. It means alot. The 2" inventory will probably be used up in a week, however I'm gearing up for another batch of parts. There are still plenty of 1" models available. I look forward to future comments from you and others.......I want to hear if you still feel as if I cost you some money, or if your acquisition was a valuable purchase and you'd happily do it again.
Be well and thank you
Watching Mr Pete for all these years, I have become convinced that it would take me TWO LIFETIMES - at least - of learning and training to barely get to shouting distance of Mr Pete. You are a LION sir ! Thank you once more, cheers.
Thank you very much
Thanks Mr.Pete, great project. Never heard of the Rose-Index and went to find one and it’s around $150, same as a broach, doh!
Timm thank you for the video. I am a 1 year in fabricator and you just showed me more in these minutes than I have learned about our mill this whole last year. Thank you and you have a new subscriber. I look forward to more of your videos, stay safe.
CmdrMoros
This video was made by Mr. Pete. I'm just the guy who made the block he used in his video. Mr. Pete is the teacher that disserves your kind words.
I’ve never seen a Rose Index. Thanks!
Excellent idea, that.
I once did something similar with a simple clamp, but this is much better.
Best shop teacher ever. Period!
Thank you very much
Great project Mr. Pete...Like it. I looked up the phrase "well used" in the dictionary, and it showed a picture of your Loc-Tite bottle lol! 👍✔💯
I love how a good engineer has a ‘toolbox’ of ideas on how to solve a problem .... that’s makes engineering fascinating. I’m actually an electronics engineer but from time to time, mechanical engineering knowledge is very much an essential ally when constructing a project. From an electronics point of view, mechanical is very much the bedfellow.
👍👍
I liked that tip. All of these simpler processes held in memory can be combined and recombined to provide understanding of much more complex procedures. Before you know it, you’re an older person dispensing wisdom to eager young apprentices via the internet. You are a solid gold asset Mr Pete. 😎👍
Thank you
Nice job, next time when you edge find go from the rigid jaw you will find it more accurate and once you find the jaw you can use your zero for quite awhile,
you could also use a 1/8 endmill to spot for the holes then use a 1/8 pin with a slight straight knurl and just press fit in place and forget the locktite, if you are going to use it for holding a cutting tool the locktite can come loose from the heat and that won't be good. Just passing on some of my over 50 years of machine shop knowledge
I now know what a rose index is. Of course the manufactures and retailers of rose indexes never make videos like these for the public and they are supposed to be the ones that inform the public about their products. Thanks for doing what they should do.
This is a great video, you are the best teacher. I loved this process...
That was a clever solution for when you don't have access to a broach, thank you I appreciate the lesson. Enjoyed it very much!
Our drills always make something that resembles a triangle.
I like very much the new transition
Thanks my grandpa was a machinist for Litton Industries! I have most of his tools and things he left for me! It a pleasure to see some one carry it into a new world!!
👍👍
Excellent, I learned a new technique with my morning coffee
I’ve never seen a Rose Index before! What a great invention!
Well done Mr Pete. One to keep in the back of my mind for sure.
at the mature age of 57 years old i have never had an idol in my life but mrpete would qualify as a potential candidate, he is a pot of gold of fabrication knowledge.
Thank you very very much
Well here goes the internet, about to get mined for Rose Indexes all of a sudden.
Genius! I’m very happy I’ve found this channel!
Welcome aboard!
I have 16 or 1800 videos for you to watch. Make sure that you search for my videos under the word Tubalcain. They will not appear automatically as I have been shadow banned by YT
That is a very cool idea and implementation.
Loved the trick! I'll probably find a good use for it too :)
I am thinking that most folks that would need to make a square hole are probably already in a machine shop. So, then we are talking about shop time versus shop expenditure. There is often a conversation (with yourself or others) whether it is cheaper to buy it (money), or cheaper to make it (shop time). Since my shop time is my own, I often defer to making it just to keep up the skill set, learn something new, etc. Nice job!
Thanks
I've never seen a rose index before. I'm going to have to make one of those.
Yes, I'll have to make one also. I didn't know about the Rose Index until now, but what a useful tool it will be. BTW, Loctite will set up in less than ten minutes with a little heat from a hair dryer and if already set up, about 200 degrees from a torch will loosen the bond to allow the part to be removed.
Seems like it would be handy to have an indexer to make one.
This was a very informative video. Thanks for showing the Rose Index. This is a terrific solution. I can only imagine how many other types of tools can be made by leveraging the concepts that you just showed us. You are a wonderful shop teacher... so keep up the good work. Cheers for an excellent video... It was very interesting (definitely NOT boring)
Mr. Pete, these videos are amazing. Documenting a lot of information that MAYBE get's personally handed down to a few people, you are opening this information up to everyone! Thank you so much for taking the time to do this! Subscribed, and look forward to more!
Mr. Pete proving once again there's more than one way to skin a cat! That keyway reminded me a couple of years ago I was using a 3/4 ball mill in the Mazak held with an "inexpensive" off shore made holder. When I turned around the endmill had sucked out of the holder and nearly cut a 200 lb. plate of 4 in. stock in half! Needless to say the holder went for a nice flight toward the chip hopper and we now use a nice Lyndex holder for that job! It cost about five times as much but we've never had another accident. I love my job!
Wow
The aspect of “need a tool, make a tool” was always something I enjoyed about metal working.
This is a wonderful way to make couplings for pneumatic valve actuators with square stems. Thanks, Mr. Pete!
Yes
Another tip for indexing the part: mill a small flat at the end. Use your square still. After features are done then machine the flat off.
Very good tip!
Why not just rotate the shaft and use your square on the edges of the groove you just cut.
@@madjack3314 that would work as well.
Lovely how precise this so knowledgeable, subtly humorous man works! Wouldn't we all wish a guy like this would have a bit of eternal life!
Thank you very much
The problem is that with todays shop and labour costs, the broach would often be the cheaper option. Over the last 2 decades, so many traditional engineering companies have not survived. Cheaper imported tools were part of the problem.
G’day Mr Pete. What’s that saying, “ can’t see the forest for the trees” well my thought process was on a rotary broach and when you started milling the slot the penny dropped to what you were up to. I would have forgotten to add the shim for wiggle room for the tool, well done. The Rose thingy looks to be a good shop project, it’s now on my list to do, thanks. I enjoyed the video, thanks.
Cheers
Peter
I'm just 15. Dad bought me a Milling machine instead of a Video Game player. So I got use to enjoy these kind of video's instead of some one playing a video game lol. Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge.
That is wonderful, you have a great dad
Congrats on your interests. Stick with it and you will have all sorts of opportunities. Machinists are getting hard to come by and many of us in the trade are bombarded with work. Best of luck to you and your endeavors.
And here I was expecting a rotary broach. I really like this technique. It's certainly superior to the drill press and hand-file method I've used in the past to get square (well squareish if we're being honest) holes in the past.
Sandy. Rotary Broach??? Did you mean a trepanning tool?
@@THEJR-of5tf Nope. A trepanning tool would still leave you with a round hole. This Old Tony has a video on what I'm talking about: ruclips.net/video/4-3gPWl6wfU/видео.html
Mr pete, you are the dood, dood. When the day is long, the pay is low, the wife is stressed and the kids are too much, your videos restore balance to my mind. Thank you once again. Take care
Well said
Good video. How about making one of those indexers
It’s patented. The inventor commented above
@@G58 So what? Perfectly legal to make one yourself.
@@JohnJones-oy3md Actually that isn't true. law.stackexchange.com/questions/24148/can-i-build-something-for-personal-use-if-it-is-patented#:~:text=In%20the%20US%2C%20if%20you,enough%20to%20qualify%20as%20infringement.
However, in reality if you don't tell anyone about it then no one would ever know. It's not the honorable or right thing to do, but you're the one that has to look in the mirror. It's not like they're that expensive.
From a fellow 45 year tool & die maker good job, in today's world plunge EDM would knock it out quickly but like you I live the old ways of making tools.
That was such a great video. Why didn't I think of that? Take care.
That was just as slick as a greased snake. Thanks for another very helpful tip.
The key to this project is “a whole Lotta Rosie”.
Or a "Whole lotta love".
I think that might pass over the heads of some old timers lol
Love your videos. It's a shame some don't respect this wealth of knowledge.
Thank you for your support
How about a project to make a Rose-Index?
Almost too easy. Someone needs to do the cad pattern and then it could be 3D printed and cast in aluminum.
@@danharold3087 I could draw it up in no time put a thread insert in it and just use it as a plastic part! Why not? It don’t take any forces!! I’ll draw it up! And print one out!
@@trialnterror That would be terrific. My CAD skills are currently lame.
@@danharold3087 fusion 360 Hobbie license and Lars Christensen on RUclips and you’ll be a master in no time!
@@trialnterror Its more a matter of will. Been burned by companies changing their mind about what they allow for free.
You are an excellent teacher Mr. Pete. Thanks so much. Warm regards from Canada, eh!
Many thanks!
I've been trying to put square pegs in round holes since I was a kid!
Awesome. I would not have thought to do this if I lived for a million years. How simple. Wow!
Thanks to "our" Mr Pete" to introduce us to yet another "Gem". Praise Jesus!
Love learning new ways to skin cats!
Now your cats can be skinned AND feature a square hole!
Meowwww?
I REALISE THIS VIDEO IS NOT THAT NEW,BUT MR PETE,YOU NEVER CEASE TO AMAZE AND IMPRESS!!
I AS THINKING ABOUT SIX DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS. I MUST CONFESS,I DIDNT THINK OF HOW YOU ACTUALLY DID THIS ...
WELL DONE!
IM NOT A MACHINIS. I DID SPEND NEARLY 25 YEARS AS A CERTIFIED WELDER/IRONWORKER AND CUSTOM SHOP FABRICATION. THERE ARE SOME VERY TALENTED INDIVIDUALS AND LITERALLY JAW DROPPING TRICKS,IF ONE IS WILLING TO APPLY THEMSELVES!!
YOUR VIDEOS ARE ALMOST ALWAYS VERY INTERESTING AND YOUR WRY,DRY SENSE OF HUMOR IS A HUGE BONUS!!
THANKS SO MUCH FOR LETTING US HAVE A PEEP IN YOUR LITTLE CORNER OF THE SHOP!!
👍👍👍
Another way is to take a piece 1/2” round stock and mill a 1/4” slot in it length ways. Drill a 1/2” hole in 30mm stock and slide slotted 1/2” piece you milled and set screw it and the 1/4” tool your trying to hold in place.
Good idea.
Yes, a very good idea.
However I would probably use 5/8 or 3/4 stock instead of 1/2 for the 1/4 slot.
A real old-school engineer. What a real pleasure that was to watch. A proper craftsman rather than a programmer of a computer attached to machines.
👍👍👍
you reminded me of my teacher, i just started a new job in a machine shop and i love it, i never realized how you would go about it, but it makes sense now that youve done it, I love the video?
Thanks
It's like watching Ironman, however impossible the problem you just know it's going to be a happy ending.
Great to see your videos again. Such knowledge. Every kid would have loved metal work with a teacher like you.
The days when metal and woodwork teachers were retired craftsmen are long gone. Our woodwork teacher was a 77 year old retired cabinet maker.
His lessons were awesome and no one played him up, possibly because standing in the corner would probably have involved our arm being clamped in a vice. 😊
What was the reason for the 3 thou tin foil shim?
My question exactly. Not everyone watching is a machinist and knows these things. Whats the shim for?
Clearance so you can get the bit in and out.
@@timdouglass9831 why wasn't a shim needed on the sides?
@@bobhope866 Because the machining left sufficient room. Note that he could slide the bit in easily, but when the spacer block was clamped in place it would be pressing down on the bit, making it impossible to remove, that tiny clearance from the foil is all that was needed. Note that there is no crush on the sides of the slot at any time in the assembly, so it maintains the machined-in clearance.
@@timdouglass9831 Ahh...I understand now..Thanks!
Thank you for the time and effort in making this video, you really are RUclips's shop teacher.
Wow, thank you!
@@mrpete222 Let me guess; Your ancestors are German?
Something to be very proud of if they are
Sir, you forgot to explain why the bit of aluminium foil went there....
Play
@@CmdrMoros I thought it was, just wanted to give teach the idea he was back in school ;-)
My approach would have been to slit the bar horizontally and mill out the two half-pockets inside then weld it back together and turn it to look pretty. This method doesn't require welding, so that's a benefit for some.
I suppose a much more patient person than I am could drill a round hole and file it with a square file.
Thank you Mr Pete - superb! Now I too want a Rose index...
Wow! I am learning so much, about everything! Thanks a lot!
I scored a box of used Dumont square and hex broaches from a tool and die shop auction. I had no idea they were in the lot I purchased until I got home. I was tickled pink.
Still haven’t used them, but I know there will come a day. ....
Great technique Mr. Pete. It never hurts to have options.
Nice find
At first i was doubtful but after explaining its versatility , sold American. Nice job.
This was one of the most ingenious shop videos I have ever seen! In particular, I loved the Rose gage!
Thank you very much, it almost went viral
@mrpete222 I think it did go viral! Tons of chatter found on hobbyist web sites about this one!
Agree with others below I would like to have one or two of those Rose Index tools. Only because I have the equipment I might choose to tig weld rather than pin, Silver Brazing is also a good choice. Thanks again for your time and "passing on the knowledge"!
If you were making a subway tunnel this technique would be called "cut and cover".
....and if that tunnel is under river????.......:)
@@nelunicoara4483 That is why the earlier shallow tunnel lines on the London underground had to come up to the surface either side of the Thames and use bridges. This prevented them from crossing the river in central London, resulting in a long journey to travel a short distance.
Therefor commuters used the mainline to get to the correct side of the river and then completed their journey on the underground.
Even after the deep tunnel lines were constructed, people still use this method today, to save time by avoiding all the station stops on a long underground journey.
@@wilsjane Not in Bucharest where tunnel is under river. It was cuted similar to Euro-tunnel under the sea.
@@nelunicoara4483 Our earlier tube lines were constructed in the 19th century.
The later part of my comment may have confused you if you don't know London. Although we now have deep tunnels, the trains stop at dozens of stations. This make travelling into London by using the mainline followed by a short journey on the tube quicker.
@@wilsjane Yes but these tube are under water how to "cut and cover?
Awesome video and idea!!! Thank you I will use this idea for a project. Was just looking at broaches for 1 job, this saved me a bunch of money!
This is great and as Mr Pete says can be varied to meet a lot of different sizes and shapes. Awesome...many thanks
Thanks for this! As a Toolmaker apprentice, unfortunately a lot of Journeymen I get paired up with are ready to retire and aren't interested in teaching anymore, unfortunately I've had to go to RUclips to learn a lot, but thanks for the video.
I'm lost for words with this guy's work.
That rose index is a nice piece for making multiple bends on one piece of pipe. To keep a reference point correct.
I loved it. I really need to start my retired mornings with more of this. It's much better for my blood pressure than following the news!
Wow !! Great! Thank you ,greatings from the netherlands.
I have done that but used tapered pins its just one more step using a taper reamer but not needing lock tight.
I have also done small square holes using a shaper and a homemade cutter.
Most shops no longer have a shaper but I have found it a very useful machine even if it's not used very often.
i have a old 7 inch atlas metal shaper a friend at a junkyard gave me because it was in mint condition and he could not see scraping a beautiful piece of machinery.
We have lots of guys here in the UK who for whatever reason cannot afford to spend hundreds if not thousands on equipment in order to complete a job of work so find a way around the problem. The term of endearment is backstreet Mechanics and I think this project easily qualifies. An excellent solution that I think would have many applications and not only in metalwork.
After searching for years I finally found a good used super spacer here while back. Needed one before.
Fool
that is really something cool mr pete im glad you showed us that
Great, now I have to buy a lathe and a milling machine. Dad always told me that all I needed in life was a cutting torch, a sledgehammer and a welder and I could make anything I needed. Oh, that’s right, I don’t need a round piece of metal with a square or rectangular hole in it. 😬 Great video though, keep them coming.
Very nice job.
I figured you'd do the old trick I read about, where you file a square hole into a thin plate jig, harden it, then make a 3 sided cutter that's real long, and use that to drill it on the lathe.
Rose indexer looks great.