Clutch Vs. Non Clutch Rear Derailleur. GRX812 Vs. Tiagra 4700
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- I thought I’d make a video comparing a clutched and non clutched derailleurs. The derailleurs used are Shimano GRX812 and Shimano Tiagra 4700.
I did 2 tests to compare the performance, a rear wheel drop test and then an abrupt stopping of the cranks for a high speed.
thanks for not taking 10 to 15 minutes to explain this lol
This channel is a national treasure
Just wanted to say thank you for demonstrating the inertia of cassette/chain, this convinced me to look into clutch derailleurs.
Spot on mate, simple and all the answers needed!
Great video and analysis, well done!!!!
Very clear description & no bullshit. Thumbs up.
Great video and explanation. Thanks!
No way!!! I never knew about all this!!
Had a bike built recently- I encountered the high cadence > abrupt stop > chain slap phenomenon and it drove me crazy. I couldn't figure out what it is. Was it the hubs? Cassette? RD? Crank? BB?
Then I stumbled on this vid for a very clear and concise answer. Thanks and cheers, mate!
No problem, it was the same issue I was having was also driving me crazy. Took some video replays for me to figure it out so I thought I’d share.
Hey there, thanks a lot for making this video!
I'm currently running a kind of a weird mullet setup with a 5800 rear derailleur, 5800 50/34 cranks, and an 11-36 cassette. It all works just fine most of the time, but due to a longer chain needed to wrap around 50-36 safely there's now a ton of slapping and noise and infrequent albeit annoying chain drops. The 5800 has seen better times, so now I'm getting an Ultegra RX800 to replace it, and it has the clutch. This video really helped me to see just how much of a difference I'm likely to get.
Interestingly, it's seemingly the only video on YT to demonstrate the road clutch in action.
1 year report. Has the clutched Ultegra RX800 worked out as desired in your issue?
5800 medium cage rear derailleur supports max 32 teeth only.
i thought he grx 812 was for a 1x set up and the grx 810 was for 2x? if not, whats the difference?
Started cycling on a gravel bike just some month ago. I didn't even realize it has a clutch, neither did I know that clutches exist all along. Until I found that lever two weeks ago.
On factory setting it was actually off. Since I switched in on, everything feels smoother and the noise from down there is way more quiet.
Is there any reason, e.g. depending on surface type, to switch it off for riding?
I just found out about the clutch yesterday as well when I took my bike to the shop. I was perplexed.
First time ever hearing "Chain reaction" as a literal description
Apologies for this dumb question, will the grx812 rear mech handle a 2x chainring? Is it supposed to be for a 1x set up only? Thank you.
My sora rear mech is brutal for the inertia issue I have to be always conscious to not stop peddling to quickly. The 10 speed 105 on my last bike never had this issue. I’ve been considering replacing the tension spring in the rear. Or just get a grx and upgrade to either 10 speed with some tiagra shifters.
Well done Moz! This video is brilliant and opened my eyes to the world of GRX. I got one installed yesterday.
Awesome video! The difference iz very well explained! Thank you! :)
Excellent demo and explanation.
In my opinion, the test should be done with the crank blocked, like in real world scenario when your legs on the pedals don't let the crank to rotate backwards, the idea is the clutch has nothing to do with the upper segment of the chain (the segment located above the chainstay). In that portion, the tension in the chain is a factor of how much torque is applied on the crank. Let me know if I'm wrong
Regarding clutch on a road bike, I think the con argument is not so much weight, but power - the clutch needs to introduce some friction that the rider has to overcome. Or am I wrong? Any idea someone if this would be some tenths of a Watt or even several watts?
Your mostly wrong. A clutch is not a spring but a damper remember. So once you have shifted gear the derailleur cage is not moving so it’s no wasting any energy. The only energy is the momentary loss is when you shift to easier gear in the cassette where you have to overcome the friction. You can feel this in the shift lever when you you try it with the clutch switch off and compare it to on. But you could argue the energy is from you hand and not the drivetrain.
I think the only possible situation where there would be added friction induced to the drive train would be if you were using oval rings, this could also reduce the life of the shimano style clutch as it would be constant moving slightly with each pedal stroke. Sram being a fluid type would likely be fine.
Alll that said, I’ve used oval rings on my mountain bike with a clutch rd and not noticed a thing. Just the rear cage move maybe 5mm fore and aft per pedal stroke.
@@MozOnBikes Thanks for clarifying - bad logic on my part!
Is it hard to change gear if the clutch is on?
Im currently building a Frankenstein bike. It's a tt bike base with MTB shifters and gravel/MTB cassette derailleur for wide range hill climbing.
The base stock tt bike cassette was useless for going above a hill with more than 4% grade as the large sprockets of cassette were constantly being used and the small sprockets were always untouched. It's 11-25
I have a 12v MTB and Cassete inertial is a big deal. I'm going to change to a M6100 with a clutch, hope it fixes the problems
Thanks for the info. I would have protected the chain-stay for that first big drop. Ouch!
Yeah was pretty decent slap that’s for sure! I can only imagine how bad it was back in the day on mountain bikes before clutch derailleur were introduced!
Thank you for the informative video
Ok a question ive found no info on with all my efforts, ive ordered a 1x9 for my 3x9 , its a cheap version, so im going to see if it will work , but again hard to find precise info , all sellers want to play safe and go by manufacturer guide lines , again thanks fir your information 💜☘🙏
Are you using the grx derailleur with the 4700 shifters? Are they compatible? Which grx model is it?
is it possible to use Deore RD+ with sora R3000 9spd sprocket and shifter?
I don’t think that will work. I can’t find any info to make me think otherwise.
@@MozOnBikes thank you very much, hopefully I can find some great deals for 2nd hand tiagra groupset to be mixed with GRX RD like yours 😊
It could be worth going for an 11 speed like 105 with a GRX rear. It’s not too much more and should have greater support in the future. Tiagra 4700 must be due a refresh soon as it’s been out a long time.
When changing derailleurs, did you need to add any extra links to the chain?
Just picked up a 2018 diverge E5 with the same exact Specs. Besides the issues you displayed in the video I’m also experiencing chain drop as soon as I backpedal. Only time I can backpedal is when I cross chain on the big ring both upfront and back. This is causing issues every time i need to Clip-in or have to reposition my feet. I know you’ve moved away from the Tiagra 4700 but do you recall having that issue? I have a Jamis with the same group set and this doesn’t happen at all.
Hmm strange, some brands are better at back peddling than others. Out of interest is your bike running a different brand chain like a KMC?
thanks, this is the best video to showing the advantage of GRX
Very informative. Thank you!
this video is exactly what I've been looking for! Please can you answer my questions:
- which gear leavers do you have?
- which front derailleur?
- is it possible to mount a tiagra front and grx rear derailleurs?
Thank you so much 😊
Well I’ve very recently made the plunge and upgraded to GRX800 shifters, but prior to this I was running the Tiagra 4700 shifters. I was running with the Tiagra 4700 front derailleur and a GRX812 11 speed rear derailleur. I’ve got another video showing the Tiagra 4700 working with the 812 rear derailleur that avalibr at this link ruclips.net/video/LulHM6fueVU/видео.html 🤙
Moz On Bikes you're using grx shifters with mechanical brakes? As i know they're only hydraulic!
Sorry my bad, I’ve changed everything to GRX800 now except the chainset. Shifters, hydro brakes callipers and rear derailleur. Gone for a 1x setup
@@MozOnBikes what cranks did you go for to get 1x? Praxis Alba's?
Still running the original praxis chainset the bike came with but with a 1x narrow wide hope chainring presently. It’s on the list to be replaced as I’m really not keen on the praxis system and odd bottom bracket bearings.
Probably going to go for a Shimano GRX 800 chainset or possibly a Hope RX if I’m feeling rich enough. But that’ll be quite some time off yet, basically I’ll probably wait until I have an issue with the bearings and replace everything in that area.
Can we change gears while clutch is on?
Of course! The reason for the switch is so you can turn it off and that makes it much easier to move the derailleur out of the way when removing the rear wheel from the bike.
@@MozOnBikes ohh that's a point I didn't realize it
Btw thanks
Wow - thanks!
Do you know Tiagra 4700 works with GSX 812 with 11x42 cassete ?
Yes it should work with an 11-42 10 speed cassette
Great!
Simple and to the point. Thank you.
Will a deralleur with a clutch have a longer lifespan/survive drops better than one without?
No. But you’ll be less likely to get frame damage from the chain or have the chain drop from the chainrings.
@@MozOnBikes ah, thanks for clarifying cuase i thought maybe if the derailleur is on there tighter its less likely to fall and droop into a rock or something, thanks anyway.
I have a Tiagra 4600 and want to upgrade GRX810. For a 10s option, will i need to swap out the 4600 50/34 Chainring and FD for a 4700, i think it'll be a direct swap without having to change the BB? I'd like to put in a GRX 2x Chainring but i think the BB will need changing too as it seems the drive side and non drive side bearing are different in size ?
I think the cranks will be a direct swap. I’m fairly sure Shimano have constant spindle diameter on both the left and right.
I think a bigger issue for you is that I’m fairly sure that the GRX derailleur won’t work with the 4600 version of the Tiagra shifters.
@@MozOnBikes Yes the 4600 pull ratio is different. Shifters definitely needs upgrading to work in the RD. But can I still keep the 4600 FD/Chainring? Or must I upgrade the front as well? Will the new 4700/7000 shifters work with old 4600 FD/chainring?
I’m not sure, im a bit of a 1x convert so don’t have and front derailleur to experiment with.
One potential issue is if you go for a grx chainset. The chain line is offset outboard by 2.5 or 3mm if I remember correct to increase tyre clearance. I’m fairly sure if you go for a grx double chainset you’ll also need the grx front mech to match.
So using that logic if you keep your current chainset it might be worth seeing if your existing front derailleur still works with the 4700 shifters it’s a zero cost experiment. If not matching 4700 front derailleur is probably the one to go for.
@@MozOnBikes Tqvm there. You’ve been super helpful.
Very nice video, I'm getting a RD400, as a replacement for my tiagra, and I wanted to see how it handles. Thank you, great exhibition.
I've contemplated this as well. Did you do it?
@@F3udF1st It works, shifts nice(when set up correctly, took a few tries) and the chain doesn't bang around much anymore.
I have the GRX RD-RX400 with OSPW on my diverge with Tiagra 4700 shifters and it works amazing ❤️❤️❤️🤘🏼
@@vitsalava1251 Do you notice a difference in top speed? I'm considering going for tiagra intentionally, because I want to ride mainly on road.
@@lgolem09l Top speed shouldn't change as the derailleur doesn't change the gearing
Hello, great video.
I'm currently running a Tigara 10 speed on my Diverge and was wondering if the GRX 812 will directly replace the rear derailleur, with no issues? Despite the GRX being an 11 speed derailleur.
Thanks
Hi H W, yes that’s is exactly the setup I was using on my diverge for over a year. Unbolt then Tiagra rear mech and bolt on the GRX812 and do a normal new set up, limit screws, and indexing and it works perfect 👌
I made a video just before this one demonstrating this exact set up and it working perfect. If your interested I’ll pop a link to this video here. ruclips.net/video/LulHM6fueVU/видео.html
@@MozOnBikes Thanks so much for the reply. Will give it a go.
@@MozOnBikes Do you know if the same thing applies with the Ultegra RX800? (I'm running a double on the front)
Do you mean like this?
ruclips.net/video/pGQ63yiYIIE/видео.html
Are you using Tiagra 4700 shift levers with the 812 derailleur? I have a 400 on mine, Shimano told me only the 400 is compatible but none of the 800 series.
I sure am! I’ve not tested the grx400 cross compatibility with the grx812 (I don’t have access to a bike with them) but using a logical extension that should work. From what I can tell the current range of Tiagra 4700 rear derailleur and up are all cross compatible.
I made a video about it just prior to this one
ruclips.net/video/LulHM6fueVU/видео.html
None the less I absolutely love my GRX 400 with Tiagra 4700 shifters OSPW setup and TRP HY-RD hydraulic mechanical calipers ❤️ my favorite setup yet. Works better than any full hydraulic brakes I’ve used to date ❤️ and shift like butter 🧈
Ahh I get you, I thought you had the 400 shifter and wanted to use the 812 rear mech. Sounds like a great set up. I’m looking for a deal on the grx810 shifter and calliper set at the mo, I fancy and upgrade to 11 speed, hydro and maybe even get the dropper lever option for future upgrades.
@@CAPRAQUEENRC I came across this comment and had a question if i got this correct - are you running Tiagra 4700 shifters with the GRX400 rear derailuer succesfully? Are there any issues or cons to doing that? I have a noisy 4700 setup currently, is the rd upgrade worth it?
@@cirvis240 I am and no issues whatsoever. Works amazing and still running great through all conditions and obstacles ❤️
First 😅 clutch rd is much better than no clutch rd but the wight is more different 😅
Swapping from Tiagra 4700 to GRX812 I lost a massive 12g 😂
But hey, at least it was a loss.
Do you have any problems whit rear hub
The bikes a month old from brand new. No hub issues yet.
Looks like that chain could do with a few less links as well.
Pretty sure your clutch was on "off" the whole test or i'm mistaking ?
You are mistaken. Lever up for clutch on.
@@MozOnBikes Yep, it is, my bad, i watched first time on my phone, idk why but i had the impression the clutch "lever" was down/off :')
The derailleur is not just oscillating, it hit the frame. On my frame there are several paint chips because of this, and the derailleur took so much hit that the paint is totally absent on a spot and the surface is shiny. Not a good thing, the bike hammering itself apart.