Uncovering HiFi's Deepest Bass Secrets
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- #audiophile #audio #homeaudio
"Killer bass" is a requisite for ANY high end system in my opinion.
The question is how valuable is high sound pressure level in the bass region.
I suggest it's not an expensive feature to achieve, and I show how it can be achieved for pennies on the dollar.
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Mikey
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A good home rig should be able to hit 110 to 120 db peaks at 20hz. But the tricky part is detail, timbre, and low distortion in the two lowest octaves. So many musical instruments have harmonics in the bottom two octaves and if you dont get those octaves right, it just doesn't sound natural. I agree loud is easy. Nuanced, detailed, and correct timbre is hard.
Bedrock Loudspeakers!!
i can agree with that, real output from at least 20hz to your hearing max frequency is a baseline.
in my small room i manage to get 107db at 12 hz, that is not a lot, just enough to perceive something is happening.
low the frequency the more impressive it is to listen to. the bes fun is below 25hz :)
I like bass definition. Mid bass textural definition. Yeah its necessary
Bass makes the music. I have 2 PSA 15" sealed subs in my system, its awesome! Measured fairly flat down to 10hz at 105db before compression. You are so right about 99% of speakers concerning bass 👍👍
Jay just bought a eighty thousand dollar speaker cable ......... any comments ?
LOL, Made ya click, didnt it ? ;-)
Hey Mikey!! “Aint no party like a P-Funk party!!” Love the shirt bro!
Lol. Word up !!
A system without killer bass is like going to a fireworks show with gun range ear phones on.
Kinda .... or one that blows off black cat firecrackers...
Sounds like being on the starting line watching top fuel cars launch.👍
Almost!
I was thinking the same thing. Most intense bass experience in my life was NHRA Nationals. Mind bending.
No joke. Those two drag car engines are so much louder than 43 Nascars flying by.
deep organs moving, that is deeeeeeep bass!
I just put a Morel 10" 600w powered by Focal amp in my grand cherokee. Got to put a sub in there to hear the bass detail over the road noise. Even with the Jeep fully sound-treated and good Morel 6*9 components, still need a sub. I don't have my RELs halfway up, and I get great bass at home.
Car Audio is fun. I've still got PPI Art Series in my truck with JL Subs... before JL ever did home audio.. The funny part is that after home audio, I don't care about the car system being decked out anymore
The top 4 systems I ever heard in my life I would rank 2 of them to be car audio systems. I was a competitor in Iasca in the late 90s to mid 2000s and I did extremely well. Went to finals in KC MO and placed 2nd in the world in my class. My SQ scores were higher than 1st place guy. My install had a couple issues that I couldn’t address.
PPI amps are cool. I ran SEAS mobile line, which were basically their top of the line drivers but configured for 4Ohm and had different cone material to weather the elements. Had a mix and match of 7990/H900 and other fun boutique amps. Great times. I didn’t have a home to furnish a system yet back then so car audio was a great way to get music loud and clean to myself.
When I landed my first home, I tried some box speakers and since couldn’t fit Edgar horns nicely in my home I settled on Maggies - sooo good. I’ve molted many times since but car audio gets too bad a rep when someone says bass.
I’ve also been in recording studios and experienced what you described about SPL. It’s another experience altogether.
Bass bins? Hell yah I was a DJ in the late 80/ early 90s too. 18” Cervin Vega bass bins, Ashley amp, CV pro speakers, 1200s and the numark…!! I was always around some sort of music trend or reproduction. Sadly was never that good to ever play an instrument. I should’ve been a recording engineer though.
@@OCDHIFiGuy I have definitely switched to home audio, from car audio. I think the car stuff is for young kids that are out all the time. It just makes sense. If you’re spending more time at home, it’s kinda counterproductive to spend your audio dollars in a vehicle you don’t spend as much time in.
In '82 I built a '76 Chevette system of Alpine front end, four way active with ribbon tweets and a 11" dual coil sub. Alphasonik active crossover, w/Linear Power amplification.
It was extraordinary. That little cabin!
Back then you had to buy via mail order ... the dual coil sub was from SpeakerLab ... I used it in an IB alignment, in the back deck.
I still have it all ... boxed up.
Totally entertained by this video, but wanted to say that I did some work on my rig to get my Buttkicker to work with my DAC outputs and uhm, I and others prefer the Buttkicker inline with the rest of the system. With the current adjustments you get more sense of heft and then the extension down low gets close to the feeling Mikey described. It's startling, just without the MASSIVE pressure. Depends on the material. For live music the sound feels bigger, more of that feeling without the earache.
Side note about that last comment, the bass pressure from my speakers is decent enough to make my unit (town house) sound like the facade might pop off at any moment but you don't really HEAR the music. That's with stuff hitting 105db at the listening position. Outside it's 45db at the property line and just thuds, sometimes it sounds like things are dropping inside for those sharp attacks.
I like my hearing and prefer db averages in the 75-83db range. Car audio is fun, high db in that environment makes no sense. But if that's how folks get their kicks...
I've turned my system up to stupid and it scared me, but I'd want to experience what you did because that sounds like it's FAR worse (in a good way). I simply don't have the environment for that level of loudness. I really want to play my system louder and sit a bit farther back. Regardless of how wimpy my bass is compared to what you described. lol
I DJ frequently on VOID and L ACOUSTICS sound systems.
Hifi guys seem to have a vast understanding of all the wrong things.
Good work Mikey!
Interesting 👍
I thought this was gonna be about your LRS upgrade.
You crack me up bro! 😂😂😂😂
Creating speakers without good Bass is a insult to the Bass Player-Band..
✌🎶🍾
Yep
Great information uploaded....
Now make next upload on how to set or correct path for air molecules in the listening room from speakers to our ears as final most important link of this reproduction chain....have a great day Sir...
Lol. Schumann resonance pulse generator... no thanks.. been there already.
@@OCDHIFiGuy actually I mean to say speakers placement..
I'm impressed you have Parliament funkadelic on your chest. Lol
What is "good bass"? Quantity and quality, nuance and agility, balance...etc. Can't be taken for granted that all engineers can design it. It is a big deal, so done correctly and well in a home music listening environment is something to note, not something to dismiss or ignore.
Only tubes recreate live low bass
Not artificial solid base slam
Love the shirt! "Funkadelic"
Maggot Brain
Since I'm 28 years old, I grew up listening to bass heavy music (rap, EDM, dubstep, etc). I never understood why a lot of older people hate it. My introduction into the audio world was reading Crutchfield magazines as a kid and looking at all the amplifier and subwoofer specs.
Me too.
I'm over twice as old, I grew up listening as much bass centric music as I could find!
I too would read every page of Crutchfield catalogs ...
In the 80's, I recall an early build detailed in Crutchfield ... a Mazda 626, with Zapco two-piece amps, Zapco Graphic EQ, powering JBL drivers.
I'm in my 70's and have tower speakers with built in powered subs and two SVS Ultra subs with the upgraded plate amps with 1,200 watts 5,000 peak
Can't listen without my low hertz 😅
@@Jack96993
Nice! Me too.
Seaton Cat12 LCRs, four 18"s, and four 15"s for subs.
I'm a FOH engineer so I like an impactful experience. It's impactful!
@@Jack96993 48 and I played some of my mum's music to her on my reasonable system and she didn't like it said It wasn't the same she grew up with it on a dansete😂
Very nice!
Augsburger mains ... yep. Thanks for sharing. Nothing like big flush mounted MTM mains in a good room.
Yes, Augsburgers are killer. But a big part of the experience is the inherent advantages of flush mounted systems ... the acoustic loading.
Taking a high sensitivity box a half-space load it! Headroom for days.
Plus that tight cohesive outward propagation, uncorrupted by early reflections.
a.) halfspace loading headroom
b.) as freqs lower, the loading tightens, free headroom where it's most needed
c.) no boundary interference nulling of vital punch and texture energy. Energy propagates outwardly uncorrupted by summation blurring from adjacent boundaries.
Also, the farther back in the room closer to the back wall, places the listener more in sync with the all modal support ... that'd be impactful!
I bet it was badass!
Very few car audio systems have quality bass.
You got me laughing on this one. I installed big systems in the 80-90's and was installing 12x 12" in a walkthrough Nissan pickup and at 136db i had to turn down the volume to see where to put my finger on the Audio Control EQT's adjustment knobs because it was impossible to see . After 10 or so years of 130+ db you get use to the body shake but nothing you can do with the blurred vision at that sound pressure level. I still love that high SPL club level volume in the home.
Well Augspurger is your brand then man. It was sick..
Your shirt is sick!
Not sure I understand the point of the video. Big bass from PA systems doesn't necessarily equal audiophile quality bass. Is the bass from these studio set ups resolving, textured, articulate, and is it seamlessly integrated with the other the drivers?
LOL, theres roughly 100 Platinum albums down the halls of this place. PA is for Live music.. If you are after making your pant leg flap thats easy shitand bass does not have nearly the high bar to meet that midrange and high does. Id say midbass is the most elusive in HiFi.. Of course its seamlessly integrated, we used DSP, a computer and microphone to do it.
Cool shirt dog!
Thats some narly MF BASS! in a room! Quite hard to do outside the car, in a room and get it to sound level-balanced. You can do one note easy but musical is hard.
Im a bass head for life, got 2 15s to replace the 3 10s in the truck.
In the house.....man my line source is so good I really dont want to complicate it with subs, but Im tempted.
My next design will have a sub built in so probly just wait.
I hear you..I'm reversed. After doing home, I dropped caring about the car..
Get em Mikey !
Yes !
@@OCDHIFiGuy Don’t stop Rocking. I’ve been riding the bike my Son restored for me to ride. Bought a 1980 Honda Cb900c, 10 speed, air ride, Shaft driven , rubber mounted engine, trans ect . It has to be one of the Best riding motorcycles I’ve ever ridden. So smooth unbelievable. It out rides most new motorcycles if today and it’s 43 years old ! He started up front and went all the way back fixing it and a friend and me painted it Candy Apple red ! Everyone knows red is faster ! He bought a BMW 1000 r , super fast ! But it really rides very nice . Fixing to out and ride for a while. Keep on Rocking !
You are correct, good bass is easy, but clean, deep bass is not. The room can be more important than the gear as bass waves are longer than the room is big. Getting great bass is also about room treatment.
True ! And a power amp with a stiff power supply.
For good bass need big woofers... Yep!
Verity audio monsalvat can do 120db down low no sweat. But that's also 4x15" each side just for sub bass. They are insane. See if you can get a demo of them by Julien.
Wilson Audio uses Scan Speak drivers. The scans are amazing tonality wise, but they have wimpy small magnets and don’t have much Xmax.
The accuracy is there,but for sure they are definitely not punchy.
The best PA BASS/SPEAKER i have hear was in a psy trance concert with astrix and neelix in my hometown Stockholm mabey 15 years ago they had a wall of funktion-one speakers and subbwoofers that my friend had helped to set up and tuned and let me tell you these Isreale and german djs don't play around the on these raves it was a great concert but i still have hearing damage from thoses times and from when i was a working dj probebly dident help 🥴🤯 ✌
You are killing it Mikey, preach brother preach. We have gotten away from really good bass to passified bass. I was a DJ in my younger days, so I know what you are saying is both true and less expensive and most have never heard it.
I just picked up a 2011 Simaudio Moon W5.3 HK RS Stereo Power Amplifier. I couldn’t ask for more bass from my ADS L880s
Cool man !! Stoked !!
Yes Mikey, you are correct. Welcome to the base line. Yes, you do get the feeling that it will shift your heart. I have legacy audio focus se speakers with 2x12 woofers each and I augment it with 2 velodyne subs. Yeah, The kick drums kick like they’re supposed to. I don’t care what speakers you have, if you can’t readily hear and feel the kick drums, fix it. You the man (sometimes, Lol).
Well said!
Blumenhofer Acoustic offer a combination of high end and PA speakers .. lots of fun
Love that t-shirt!
Thanks T . ;-)
Your right.
Next you can discuss head room with amps…
lol.... we getting in the weeds with Bass, in my opinion I like Class A bass or Tube Bass... although currently using Open Baffle Bass. Still wanna get my Dual 32s OMG!!! 25HZ at 115db...lol I mean we are previously home theater maybe pro consumers. I recently saw the 1hz FAN subwoofer...lol 1hz!!!
Ridiculous... lol.
I’m waiting to understand what bass does to our hearing music how does it impact reception and perception of music. At acceptable levels it genuinely lifts the reception and perception of the music but only up to a certain point and if the quality enables frequency distinctions (25vs28vs30 etc) vs muddy bass bloom that disturbs our need to identify source and direction of sound think earthquakes for example
I'm not big into ruptured organs, but I do kinda want to know how in-wall speakers sound. Does it feel like a flat plane of sound or is there the illusion of depth?
There is an illusion of depth if done well.
Compression drivers mated to horns and using bass bins. Industrial Klipsch gear and vintage Crown amps give you center stage, baby.
Can someone help me out with some speakers to buy. I been into hi-fi for a couple if tees but I gave worked in acoustics abs also recording studios a lot, obviously those speakers are very different. Seeking some OK speakers for for my 2nd room ( medium sized high ceiling) I like Good sound stage, detail and presence. Also on a budget as im moving interstate.
Are you in Oz ?
Car audio bass is so much better! Watching long hair being blown in and out of windows?
Lol. I've seen bags of chips explode...
Yeah man, home audio needs clean, fast accurate natural sounding bass not car audio SPL bass.
Love the shirt! Reminds me of the old car stereo wars days. Some of those manufacturers, would bring there promo vans and trailers by. The bass would be so tremendous that you instinctively would jump out the vehicle. Felt like your body was under a sonic assault of some sort!
Most older rock recordings just don't have decent bass. Then Billie Eilish comes along with her first album and blows up woofers. Way too bassy!
Not my woofers !!
Having a good 8“ and 600watts in it in my econoline van is a must , the front tweeters and mids are driven by a DR COUSTIC 100watts amp (David Reich) made,plays very musical
Yer just nuts, Mikey! In a GOOD way,. I'm 83yo with a pacemaker and good ears. I love feeling the 32' pipe organ bass at 16hz but not sure vibrating yer internals and hair follicles is a good thing. Yer still nuts in a good way, though!
Who tf listens at 100-110 db anyway. This is crazy 😂😂
It's relative.
110dB broadband is insane ... but 110dB in the bottom octaves is nothing.
The Equal Loudness Contours being what they are, 10hz requires ~100dB to be just audible.
The sub system in a bass managed multichannel rig, needs ~126dB to attain reference level 3hz-120hz (lfe + redirected bass).
Our hearing sensitivity diminishes so much as freqs drop.
Approx. threshold of audibility;
70dB@20hz
90dB@16hz
That's why there's often house curves baked in.
Fortunately, boundary loading and vessel gain aid in support, ... headroom added back in.
Bass is hardly ever good in a car it’s either fully distorted or too soft and lacks tone frequency and slam.
Most Hi-Fi doesn’t do bass well either and needs subs and even the subs struggle to do this well too. Unlike live sound…
You talk WAY too much man
Lol. Then DONT WATCH my channel... lol. Are you my slave or something ?? Just LEAVE... ITS EASY