Fender Champ - Reissue VS Mind Blowing ORIGINAL!
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- In this video we compare an original 1958 Fender Tweed Champ to a 2018 Fender 57 Custom Champ! The amps are 5W with an 8" Speaker and the original PT is changed from 110V to 240V.
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![Vintage Fender Tweed Amps With Jesse Hoff & Ed Oleszko [7 Vintage Tweeds Cranked!]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/fakunNpBALE/mqdefault.jpg)
![Vintage Fender Tweed Amps With Jesse Hoff & Ed Oleszko [7 Vintage Tweeds Cranked!]](/img/tr.png)
Johan gets a thumbs up before the program even starts!!
Immediately ...
Agreed.
Best channel on RUclips
Always
The reason why the new one sounds low overdrive and treble shy is because they currently come from Fender with a dull sounding 12AT7 preamp tube. The original Champ had a brighter 12AX7 tube. So more gain and brighter. I have one, and I cannot comprehend why Fender did this. I am just glad that they made a hand wired reissue. If you just switch this out the tubes these amps sound pretty much the same. I put a 12AX7 Tung-Sol in and problem solved.
Seeing Julian Lage playing through an old Champ made me a fan of these, incredibly dynamic when played with a lighter touch. They pick up every nuance.
Heyman Heyguys That’s a great way of demoing a Champ, saw him at Islington Academy this year. Phenomenal player, and I don’t recall seeing any pedals. Just an old Blackgaurd and the magic in his fingers!!!
I'm puzzling over the reissue Champ's distortion character. It's a pretty brash, rigid, aggressive, splatty distortion, but at the same time, according to meters, it has more dynamics, while distorting, than the bigger Fender tube power amps. It outputs distortion and dynamics at the same time. A very different character than the standard bigger amps.
That’s not where the magic but a popular misconception. Internet is great for that
The re-issue sounds very good; the ‘58 sounds amazing! However the best part of Johan’s comparisons, as usual, is Johan. Love what you do, Johan.
Thanks Carl, great to hear that!
I'd love to hear what the newer Champ would sound like with the 58's speaker and tubes in it.
Let's hope Johan can't hunt down a local blues harmonica player to do a shootout comparison between the old & new amps.
In my humble opinion...they both sound great! The 1958 version seems to produce a more brittle, hairy bite to the sound in the upper frequency range...while the reissue sounds a little fatter and tighter in the bottom. So there are some sonic differences but with a strat on the neck pick...they sound a lot closer. I would play either of these and think they both sound fantastic. The one I have is a '57 RI and it sounds fantastic. My ES-335 through it is just a dream. Thanks for letting us hear the differences between the two wonderful tweeds!
Both sound amazing. I'm sure that during a live performance or a good old rock roll jam, no one would be able to tell the difference between the vintage and the reissue. A good musician will bring the sweetness out of anything.
Thanks for this :) It reassures me I made the right choice paying 1,450 USD in 2015 for my [December] 1957 Fender Champ. The reissue is nice, but it's obvious, the original is just nicer. Great playing, cheers and thanks!
I had a tweed Champ 40 years ago... I wish I hadn’t sold it. Back then they were $50.00... I’m sure everyone knows Clapton’s Layla album was recorded using Champs...
And Joe Walsh, "Funk '49" and "Rocky Mountain Way"
...Led Zepellin 1 and 2 also.........
The EHX pedal at 3:35) did no good to that nice sound amp.
If I had that 58 champ it would be calling me all day.
:-) I agree
And the problem is I should have all this stuff. LOL so strange.
At 1:32 i can stop the comparison. The 1958 Champ is a monster!!!
..My first amp was a '59 Champ. It was and IS still my all-time favorite.....Right behind my '66 Princeton Reverb and '61 Concert.........
I’d be curious what would happen if you put the old speaker 🔈 in the new machine.
This is the difference I would bet. Old broken in speaker breakup.
Crocs and vintage gear! Epic stuff man! The new champ sounds boxey, the speaker needs to be broken in and I'd suggest voicing the amp with and nicer sounding preamp tube! Cheers from Canada!
They both sound great. I love the riffs you play, Johan.
Great demo! The reissue sounds fantastic, but the original is insane!!
Sounds like the only difference is an aged speaker
The reason these amps and speakers are attractive is how they sounded on the classic albums back when the amps were new, so any change in sound after that is undesireable. It takes about 60 Hours to break in a speaker.
@@JohanSegeborn good point
@@JohanSegeborn how many hours are on the new champ's speaker
I bet with miking the edge of the cone you could make the new one sound frighteningly close to the old one
ok here is one for you . an old rocker us't to poke holes in his speakers to get the fuzz he wanted he never used peddles a died about 10 yrs ago at 73 .. anyone know who im talking bout this guy was a Britt
you should have tried the old speaker in the new champ..
Yes he should
Came here to comment this too! Don't know how easy it would be to do without affecting the value of the original, but if it's possible to just unhook the speaker cable from the original amp and plug it into the reissue, I'd love to hear that.
@@yetanotherbassdude Easily done. The speaker is connected to an RCA plug that inserts into a jack next to the 12AX7.
Please make this happen
I have this reissue Champ with a stock speaker by Weber. The Weber speaker is bright, compared to a Celestion - I have to take measures to reduce the treble. I am going to try Celestion's 8" guitar speaker instead, the "Eight 15" (8", 15W). I have high hopes for that Celestion -- it gets high ratings. Celestion made a video about specifically installing this speaker in the silverface Champ. The Weber has a nice chrome-like magnet cover so I might display it, if the Celestion sounds much better.
I would loved to have heard you describe in detail what is different in the schematic between the two amps. That would have answered a LOT of questions.
Hello Johan! The original ' 58 wins hands down, and not because the reissue sounds bad, but the ' 58 has a detail, a character, a warm clarity that the reissue doesn' t have; old circuitry, old electronic parts, old tubes and old speakers give something with its own !
@Vincenzo Erriquenz - You said it for me, so all I will do from here is agree big time! :) Don't forget that cabinet too! You actually hear that "good" resonance compared to the reissue. It's almost multi-dimensional.
@@bigg4454 oh yes, you are absolutely right about the cabinet factor!
Agree, the '58 sounds more mellow. But both amps don't like to be pushed too far.
@@willkupers yes, as any low wattage amp with small speaker , they start to be sputtering!
@Ben Hackett yes, I should have said " relatively small" and yes, that " sputtery sound" is typical of those fender tweed amps cranked; but to appreciate the sonic differences between the two amps you have to run them not at full throttle; personally I' m a fan of Neil Young, enough said about cranked tweed amps! :-)
from my experience, there is a significant difference between the vintage Fender amps and the reissues. My '71 Princeton Reverb is much fuller sounding and takes pedals better than the reissue.
I’ve owned 2 of these in Eric Clapton guise, 1 brand new version sounded like your 2018, the other very used and abused sounded closer to your 59. Easy to sell on if it’s not your sound!
Nada did research on electronic circuitry and how time and usage affected it They said s natural compression happened occured physically and sonically So there's that and kind of makes sence
Damn that 58! What a great sounding amp!
The Wind Cries Mary sounds so good on a Champ, but as well on a brown face Princeton. Tone of the gods.
someone knew what they were doing when they named this little powerhouse, "CHAMP."
When I was studying for my EE degree a friend and classmate scored a '59 Champ for me from his neighbor, $15 bucks. It was featured on many local musicians vanity projects as well as radio jingles. I sold it one year to buy my little children Christmas for almost 100 times what I paid for it. Memories.....😊
p.s. they sound best with a 5V4 rectifier tube.
Man I have been there. I sold a lot of gear over the years for some quick cash.
Great video! Based on this- I prefer the '58's initial high-end bite and rounder midrange, comparably. Nothing wrong w/the reissue though! The '58 just seems more... ALIVE. Maybe a bit more sustainy, too.
How cow! What a monster that little champ is! It begs for an extended boogie-type jam. Beautiful, as ever.
I could hear quite a substantial difference. Surprising considering its the same manufacturer. Thank you Johan.
Thanks for the comparison, much appreciated!
Does the Reissue have a 12AY7 in V1 or a 12AX7 as the original had?
I noticed Mic positions varied... love tweeds though.
After watching this I pulled the 25/25 bypass cap off my V1 cathode as on the 58 you feature here and .. "yes". 🥰
The tones are pretty similar. The one difference I found was there was a touch more clarity in sound in the '58 Champ.
The reissue sounds constricted compared to the original. The '58 is much more open and organic sounding.
a) With these amps the speaker makes the most difference.
b) There's no magic in the old one.
c) Any two Champs will sound different in a direct side by side comparison regardless.
Man, I’ve got that amp!! It sounds awesome!! Thanks for the great videos!!
Those two got a lot in common.
This is a marvelous simple scheme amp for tube swapping.
The ‘58 sounds incredible. It had a lot of upper mids, and I noticed it didn’t even have a 1st stage cathode cap. Amazing.
I'm actually astounded how different (and better, fuller, just 'more' ) the vintage amp sounded. And the reissue was no slouch either.
3:57 It just don’t get any better. Mind blowing tone, & creamy distortion.
this "premier" thing annoys a lot - I want this vid now, not later :)
but it gives us the chat
Annoys a lot of what? You are joking right
How on Earth is the '58 sounding so HUGE? Completely different!
Would love to hear both circuits through the same speaker -- maybe even through the same 4x12 cab.
58 > 18
Big time. Excellent guitar playing, as always, Johan! 🙏❤️🎸
Love the old tweed Champs. It looks like the original doesn't have a cathode bypass cap for V1. I wonder how much that is contributing to the tonal difference? That and the speaker of course. I thought they both sounded great, but that '58 was really special :) Have a great week Johan!
The new one sounds....new. Eric Wampler has a good take on older equipment vs new. Brand new components sound different. I confess I like the sound of the older one better.
I wonder how many people on here are picking the original just because it’s the original? I would bet a lot.
I can tell which one is the original with my eyes closed
I think its silly that magazine articles and marketing material constantly tell us that guitar tech peaked in 1959, but... I think this is one of the few cases where I think the vintage version does sound better.
Now if only the modern champ made up for it with at least SOME additional features...
Michael Cloney
It wouldn’t be a Reissue if it had “some modern features”, but Fender does make that amp it’s called the Super Champ XD (but it doesn’t look like a tweed Champ). On a positive note, it is significantly cheaper.
@Panic42000 I would rather own the original due to it being more repairable point to point wiring, but in this comparison I did actually prefer the tone of the reissue. Less boxy midrange.
Just a comment- it seems your mic placement is different between the two? Great review
Dope video. Like them both, honestly.
Thanks for sharing.
I notices after the fist few minutes, they no longer played the Reissue Champ.
The Original had the goods. The Reissue was in the ballpark, but the difference between close and right on when one is talking about just about anything, is all the difference in the world.
More of the best on RUclips TY Johan
Thanks Jake, I’m so glad to hear that!
I was able to score on a 1963 Fender Tweed Champ, that was all original and in pristine shape from a blues harmonica player. I changed out a few of the caps, but it still sounds like "butta." A lot of mojo too.
One of the things I often notice with old amps, and pickups too, is the combination of increased treble clarity and greater midrange *oomph* compared to modern stuff. That’s the case here. It’s almost as though modern gear designers, even when it comes to (near-)reissues of old classics, think they must sacrifice mids to get clearer high end. Or sacrifice treble to get richer mids. Not so!
Johan, can you change speaker between the amps? It would have been very interesting to hear how much the speaker is involved in th 58´sounding better.
With the epi the sound reminded me of Nicke Anderson's tone.they sound wicked, both seen to have a bit of hiss and hum
Hi, Johan!
My opinion is 2018 is better for distortion. Maybe this is because of modern standards. The 58' is very different, after so many ears its hard to say, is it like or not. Time machine. Surprisingly good for Epiphone! Very strange sound amp.
See you!
Zigfrid
Thanks Zigfrid, it’s indeed a matter of taste. Both good amps. The 2018 has a little more gain indeed
Great demo , really enjoyed it ..
Obvious winner ..
Ive had a few of these , the Re-issue claims to be hand wired but is more like hand assembled, push fit fittings, pre manufactured wiring loom and part printed circuit board , and if memory serves has a couple of fuses printed/stamped on the board, with minimal p2p work .. None of which would have been on the original
The original would have been true point to point .. that and the speaker makes the difference ..
Be good to compare the Original , to a clone which has been made with closer age correct specs, unfortunately I dont have an original ..
The re-issue is still a nice amp tho ...
If I give guitar lessons, I would make my students subscribe to this channel and report on what they learn for extra credit.
I have a 1960. Great amps!! 😎
Wow that '58 original sounded amazing, Both sounded great, but the vintage really had something a little extra. Your playing was great Johan! I've tried the reissue in the store, and let's just say that the tone is in the fingers, and I wish I could have made sound it that good. Your vibrato and sense of timing is always a standout.
Thanks for the demo. But why so little time comparing the Amps? 95 % is listening to your playing the old one.
That's what I said. Everybody loving the 58 but he didn't put the 57 reissue through the same pace.
Someday I plan to get a Victoria 518 (their champ) a buddy had one and it was phenomenal. For now though, I'm about to have a Marshall major custom built for me, kinda the polar opposite of this lol
I have Victoria Ivy League (their version of the Harvard) and it is absolutely amazing. I truly believe Victoria makes clones that are as good as the original.
Dude - you are starting to sound like you are from Cali. ;) That accent is turning into an American accent! :) Love your videos, man!
For $250 I just scored an all original 1959 Lectrolab r200b, tones like a tweed fender champ (this particular model mistakenly says 25 watts on it when in reality it is 5 watts). So the actual biggest difference is the price-4 months ago an all original ‘59 champ on reverb sold for $4300 🤯
Great comparison! I wonder what valves were in each one? Would be very interesting to swap their valves over
As always Johan amazing playing. The first riff had a significant difference and I have to say I preferred the 2018 model. As the video went on, the differences became less obvious.
That '58 sounds so good... Great job!!
The output transformer, that’s the big difference between amps
You got great tones out of both... some of the original 58 were indeed as advertized, mind blowing...somebody above me said "more clarity in the 58..." I agree, but I think it's more clarity more bite and more space... which makes it sound like I think the reissue sucks... it doesnt'... except in comparision! Wish you'd included a bit of info about your tone settings because you rolled thru a half dozen or more absolutely distinct iconic classic rock sounds.
Thanks, glad you like it. Many of the tone depended on guitar volume and tone settings. I’ll try to declare those in coming videos. Cheers
The reissue is made in USA right
Did you remove the neck pickup from the black les paul? Some people think the absence of the magnetic pull from a neck pickup changes the tone of the guitar.
What is the orginal speaker Sir ?
This would be way more interesting as a blind test, as I'm sure 9 out of 10 people wouldn't be able to tell them apart without seeing them.
Agreed!
Don’t worry Tim, your reissue did alright.
@@JohanSegeborn I have neither: I'm the proud owner of a Victory V40 with a 2x12 Zilla custom cab. :)
Just interested to see how people would judge with their ears instead of their eyes and preconceptions, nothing more.
All I can see is crocs goin wild
I HAVE TWO VERY EARLY TWEED PRO JR'S THAT SOUND LIKE THE CHAMP.
Wind Cries Mary sounded amazing!
Thanks, yeah that sure sounds like a bigger amp like a Bassman for instance
Yeah, when anyone asks me for a demo of my tweed champ clone, I play that song. The two were made for each other. Both amps sound really close, by the way. The '58 is a little brighter but could be attributed to speakers or tubes. Loved both of them. I've got a Tone Tubby Humboldt (low watt alnico) in mine. To die for tone. Johan's a tweed-aholic. That's why I come here.
The reissue I much preferred both were great. I don't know how old you said the speaker is in the original so likely with the exception of maybe some out of spec caps from age (no I'm not referring to the filter caps I'm talking about the cathode caps and coupling caps. And likely out of spec resistors inside because 20 percent tolerance back in the day with all those parts was the norm. These days most resistors are pretty close and the tolerance is within 5 percent of spec stated so standards are much higher more consistent let alone those components changing with age not to the point they're not safe for the amp but to the point it's causing a difference in tone. Hard to say having both in front of me and measuring each part and I'm not trying to replicate the thing so why would I go through all that trouble when I'd rather just play em both!!! 😄
As with all his videos, the winner is us, the viewer....and of course, the Crocs.
It sounds like the speaker in the amp that’s about 1/2 way through is blown(about 4 minutes in)
The 1958 IMHO sounded better. However it's been played for 60+ years and the electronics are burned in and the speaker is broken in. Give the new Champ 60 years and it'll sound like the 1958.
That old one just has something in it maybe it's more open( the only way I could describe it) than the new one. Its more aggressive too. The new one sounds like a new amp that is polished and not rough around the edges.
The vintage Champ has a much more pleasing mid-range to my ears. Anyone know why that is?
Nada did some research on time and usage and how it affects electronic circuitry Stated it adds a natural compression Actually physically and sonically
Has such an early 70’s Keith Richards sound
The 58, all day, every day!
Johann, again a very interesting video and thanks! A query - how much of the (HUGE) tonal difference is the speaker (is the speaker in the '58 the original?) - or maybe the ply used in the cabinet contruction. I'd like to see/hear a comparison clip with the speakers swapped (or connected from one amp to the other with a cable so as not to dismantle them), could be very interesting...
What was different around 3:10? Same around 4:55. Sounded very sharp and brittle until then, suddenly at that timestamp really lovely smooth soft tone. Just picking softly? Is that the trick with this amp? Funnily enough 5:20 was sharper again, but really reminded me of Layla (although more pleasing tone with this).
Let's see the demo after the reissue has had a few years of hard work on the speaker...................The reissue sounds tighter I think because the new speaker hasn't broken in yet.
These amps will sound better and age like fine wine, unlike the digital ones which 2 years later are out of date. Both sound good, but not really a fair test right now.
1957 Champ !
It just breathes differently, Johan. I see open arms with a person instead of a handshake!!
Cheers Steffen!
58 all original speaker, tubes and trans costs 3x but it doesn't sound better 3x.
No way. The 57 Custom is top-class product care.
Or you can build one for the same price with excellent result. DIY
Can anyone share which speakes are in the 1958 vs the 2018?
Did you switch the speakers to see if they would have the same effect?
Tubes and speakers make all the difference in the world. A brand new, bone stock reissue is not going to sound as good as a well maintained original with nos tubes and a broken in speaker. Give them both the same speaker and tubes, and break in time, and since they have the same circuit, they're going to sound almost identical. There's no magic here; it's all electronics and magnets.
Absolutely
New one all what it need is time
@@lesamicalesagadir3964 Glad I bought one. After 2 years of searching for a quality bedroom amp, I found it.
I thought so until I bought the original. There is something magic about the original.
@@smoochie3331 i think same. It's instrument. not a machine
I prefer the more 3D tone of the original as it has more harmonic content that seems to have movement in the room.
Age before beauty, with an extra serving of cream.
The valves alone in the old one probably sell for what the reissue costs. There are all kinds of changes to the materials that will happen with that age. Lots of drift with values in the electronic parts like resistors and capacitors. The speaker, of course, will have seasoned in and have a more open presentation. All that said, the reissue still does "the thing", and would be the choice for anything but the most sheltered and safe environments.
They do indeed have the same sound. The 58 is just bigger and more detailed.
58’s for me. More transparent with all frequences.
This old '58 Champ is so different compared with the Reissue. And no, it's not only the speaker in my opinion. Joe Walsh had 'Rocky Mountain Way' recorded in '73 with a Champ as far as I know. Let's say it was a '58, too, which was a 15 years old amp those days. Not that old to be called 'Vintage'. And that sound is killer until today.
Back when stuff had midrange
Zeus Apollo if they all had midrange, then why was the TS9 invented? Hmm🤔
@@user-tz2zz5ij1s not so much that they all had a mid range hump...more that manufacturers have pulled mids out of products made more recently. My opinion only
@@user-tz2zz5ij1s because people wanted their mid range back when fender went to their silver and black faced amps